Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: Happy Monday and for those of you who celebrated Russia,
Speaker 1: Shana Shaanatoba, and happy New Year to all of you.
Speaker 1: I hope that you had a good holiday weekend. You know, folks,
Speaker 1: in thinking about just the next couple of months of
Speaker 1: this year, and you know, there are all of these
Speaker 1: memes that go around in September that are like, there
Speaker 1: are four months left of you know, twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: and like what are you going to do with yourself?
Speaker 1: And there's always this pressure to somehow finish the year,
Speaker 1: you know, on top whatever that on top means for you.
Speaker 1: And I'm really working these days to reformulate and reimagine
Speaker 1: what it means for me to be able to finish
Speaker 1: out a year or as in the Rashishana tradition, start
Speaker 1: a new year. And it isn't about how much you accomplish,
Speaker 1: how many things you've checked off, how productive you have been,
Speaker 1: how you know great you have performed. It's for me
Speaker 1: these days the question is how is my body feeling?
Speaker 1: How is my mind feeling how is my spirit feeling
Speaker 1: and what success is looking like for me is being
Speaker 1: able to wake up each day and end each day
Speaker 1: with the sense of ease. Right. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: the day was easy. It doesn't mean that there weren't
Speaker 1: any obstacles that showed up. But it is about the
Speaker 1: nimbleness and the ability to kind of move in flow
Speaker 1: and be able to operate in a way that centers
Speaker 1: peace and ease and joy. And you know, it used
Speaker 1: to be that when I was racing towards the end
Speaker 1: of the year, I wanted to be able to post
Speaker 1: on social and list off all of my accomplishments and
Speaker 1: look at me, aren't I hashtag badass? Hashtag hustler, hashtag
Speaker 1: you know, grinding? And I just don't have the energy
Speaker 1: for that shit anymore. I don't know about y'all, but
Speaker 1: I really just don't. And maybe it is, you know, age,
Speaker 1: Maybe it is the fact that everywhere that you look,
Speaker 1: you know, people are losing their lives in the tens
Speaker 1: of thousands in an instant, in a blink of an eye,
Speaker 1: in one illness, in one you know, catastrophic climate disaster,
Speaker 1: in you know, a moment, and so oh, just this
Speaker 1: idea of racing towards something. I just don't know what
Speaker 1: the point of it is, right, except to feed into
Speaker 1: this capitalistic, greedy beast that is never satiated. And the
Speaker 1: other day I posted this awful interview that Tim Grunner did,
Speaker 1: this billionaire Australian billionaire, basically talking about the fact that
Speaker 1: pain and suffering need to happen so that people understand
Speaker 1: who's in power, That it's not the workers, it's the employers,
Speaker 1: and all of these things. And I'm just like, this
Speaker 1: world is filled with a lot of evil, a lot
Speaker 1: of bad people, and I don't want to stress myself
Speaker 1: out in a way that makes disease, right, disease, disease
Speaker 1: take hold of my mind, my body, and my spirit.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, as we change seasons, and if
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're you know, in the
Speaker 1: northern hemisphere and we're you know, shifting seasons and things
Speaker 1: are getting cooler, I mean, I just use it as
Speaker 1: an opportunity to really begin to ground and connect with
Speaker 1: myself and kind of prepare right for those winter months.
Speaker 1: Who even knows will it actually be winter. We have
Speaker 1: no fucking idea, but I do know that mentally, I
Speaker 1: don't want to end the year exhausted. I don't want
Speaker 1: to end the year, you know, feeling like I need
Speaker 1: to sleep for the month of December in order to
Speaker 1: work up the energy to even tackle twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: And so I just encourage you as we are, you know,
Speaker 1: changing seasons this week and moving, you know, towards the
Speaker 1: end of this year, that you start to take real
Speaker 1: stock over how you were feeling. Ask yourself, how is
Speaker 1: my spirit feeling? And if it isn't feeling good right,
Speaker 1: then what are some things that you can do to
Speaker 1: help aid in that? And if that means tuning out
Speaker 1: of the hate spin and you know, and tuning in
Speaker 1: to people who need your love and care and attention,
Speaker 1: whether that's a pet, a child, a plant, do so.
Speaker 1: Do so. But I want to encourage all of us
Speaker 1: to be checking in, you know, with ourselves, every day,
Speaker 1: every day, every week, because this is the only vessel
Speaker 1: we got. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend,
Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know
Speaker 1: that whenever we have the time and opportunity to speak
Speaker 1: with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, we are
Speaker 1: always pleased to do. So I want to bring it
Speaker 1: to everyone's attention right now that I'm certain that you've
Speaker 1: all received the alerts from the New York Times and
Speaker 1: other outlets that tell us that the vaccines, the latest
Speaker 1: boosters for COVID have been approved and are beginning to
Speaker 1: be rolled out. And you know, I am somebody who
Speaker 1: believes in vaccines, believes in science, and will be getting
Speaker 1: uh the booster when it is available in my area,
Speaker 1: which should be by the end of this month. However,
Speaker 1: given this state of affairs of the United States and
Speaker 1: the division along you know, fishtistic lines and the Republican
Speaker 1: Party not believing in science, wanting to kill people, you know,
Speaker 1: a whole host of things, there are articles that are
Speaker 1: coming out op eds urging people to get the vaccine. So, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: I want to start with you. You know, I now know
Speaker 1: why two, three, four, five people that have that either
Speaker 1: currently have COVID or getting over COVID, or just finished
Speaker 1: having COVID. And this is my mother is the same.
Speaker 1: She has known several people over the last two months
Speaker 1: that have all gotten COVID. We know that it's on
Speaker 1: the rise. What are your thoughts about the booster, about education,
Speaker 1: around the booster, and the fact that the last time
Speaker 1: the booster came out, according to CDC reports, only twenty
Speaker 1: percent of Americans got them.
Speaker 2: It was less than twenty percent. I think when I
Speaker 2: read it was seventeen percent. So it's it's well, let's
Speaker 2: back up. In an ideal world, we have an infection,
Speaker 2: we have a virus that's circulating around. It takes a
Speaker 2: long time to formulate a vaccine, but once you have
Speaker 2: like the infrastructure of the vaccine are built, then you're
Speaker 2: just trying to anticipate, like, what's this virus that's mutating
Speaker 2: ten zillion times a second, what's the virus going to
Speaker 2: look like ten months from now when this vaccine will
Speaker 2: become available. And so a vaccine is never going to
Speaker 2: be like a perfect protection, right because even now we're
Speaker 2: seeing with COVID, the COVID is changing in a way,
Speaker 2: but the infrastructure of the vaccine itself is still exactly
Speaker 2: the same. And so we have so much evidence right
Speaker 2: now about the overarching safety of this vaccine, this vaccine framework,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, I mean, for me, what do
Speaker 2: we do about disinformation right now? I mean, the good
Speaker 2: thing about this really, honestly is it's not like in
Speaker 2: other illnesses we need like smallpox or polio or things
Speaker 2: like that, we need like eighty percent of the people
Speaker 2: to have immunity or ninety percent or something like that,
Speaker 2: or else we won't have heard immunity. But with COVID,
Speaker 2: I feel like people who people who don't want to
Speaker 2: get the vaccine, don't get the vaccine, you're just going
Speaker 2: to have a higher risk of more serious COVID. But
Speaker 2: the crazy thing is if you look on Twitter, everybody's like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get the mRNA vaccine because I'm
Speaker 2: waiting for the and then they'll say some vaccine that
Speaker 2: hasn't even been tested that we have no idea works
Speaker 2: or something like that, and so it's just it's a
Speaker 2: crazy world we're living in right now. We kind of
Speaker 2: keep living the same thing over and over and over.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be the first guy in line when
Speaker 2: the vaccine comes out. I feel like the data is
Speaker 2: pretty clear that places that got the booster did better
Speaker 2: with health outcomes than places that didn't do the booster.
Speaker 2: The inexact science part of it isn't whether or not
Speaker 2: the vaccine works, whether it's safe or it's been tested
Speaker 2: on humans. That is a subtle debate. Honestly, the inexact
Speaker 2: science is is the thing that scientists did eight months ago.
Speaker 2: How well did they predict what's going to happen with
Speaker 2: the COVID vaccine. The basic assumption is that we're going
Speaker 2: to be all on the chain member like that we had,
Speaker 2: like the alpha beta. The micron chain then was dominant,
Speaker 2: and so they're just betting that we're still going to
Speaker 2: be on the same chain, which hopefully is going to
Speaker 2: be the case. I think early data is pretty encouraging
Speaker 2: that this vaccine is going to be protective against the boosters,
Speaker 2: and so I guess the only thing I can say
Speaker 2: is what I always say, which is I would urge
Speaker 2: people who want to stay safer than they would otherwise
Speaker 2: to go out and get the booster.
Speaker 1: I just want to read a part of an op
Speaker 1: ed that is out right now by doctor Mandy Cohen
Speaker 1: in the New York Times, and she says this, some
Speaker 1: viruses change over time. This coronavirus is one of them.
Speaker 1: It finds ways to a beta immune systems by constantly evolving.
Speaker 1: That's why our vaccines need to be updated to match
Speaker 1: the changed virus. Even though many Americans have been exposed
Speaker 1: to previous versions of the virus because they've been infected,
Speaker 1: that protection decreases over time. So Jonathan, just pause for
Speaker 1: a second. Can you speak to this idea that, well,
Speaker 1: I got a shot and I got another shot, shouldn't
Speaker 1: I be good? Because she's expressly saying here that even
Speaker 1: though you may have been infected before and had COVID,
Speaker 1: even though you may have had these other boosters, that
Speaker 1: the protection decreases over time.
Speaker 2: I mean, we do that every year with flu, Right,
Speaker 2: you had the flu last year, but then the flu
Speaker 2: changed and then you need the updated flu shot. We
Speaker 2: do that with all kinds of things where we need
Speaker 2: different kinds of boosters just because you got an illness
Speaker 2: went so the illness itself is changing, right, And again,
Speaker 2: the important point is the basic infrastructure of the vaccine
Speaker 2: isn't changed. It's just the formulation that's changing. And so
Speaker 2: the idea that you're going to go out and test
Speaker 2: this exact formulation on people for five years before you
Speaker 2: get approval is idiotic because by that point it'll be
Speaker 2: another formulation of the illness. And so it's a kind
Speaker 2: of a cat and mouse game that we're playing I'm
Speaker 2: pretty optimistic that they got it right this time. But
Speaker 2: COVID changes continually and in ways that we don't know
Speaker 2: is it going to get more severe or less severe?
Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is to me, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't understand why Americans aren't as adaptable to logic, which
Speaker 1: is that to your very point, you get a flu
Speaker 1: shot every year, you don't get one flu shot at
Speaker 1: ten years old, and then you're just like, well, I
Speaker 1: already had one, hap, come I'm not covered. It's because
Speaker 1: the flu is a type of virus that changes over time, right,
Speaker 1: that learns our body and then finds different ways to
Speaker 1: get in. And that is similarly with what she also
Speaker 1: writes doctor Mandy Collen in this New York Times op
Speaker 1: ed is this. From January to July twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: eighty eight percent of deaths from COVID nineteen were among
Speaker 1: people who were sixty five years or older, those with
Speaker 1: certain underlying health conditions approximately seventy percent of American adults,
Speaker 1: and weakened immune systems also are greater risk for younger
Speaker 1: and healthier adults. But then she said something that I
Speaker 1: think is really important that I want you to weigh
Speaker 1: in on she says, quote, what's more, anyone who gets
Speaker 1: infected with COVID can develop long COVID, and I don't
Speaker 1: want any American to experience that if it can be avoided.
Speaker 1: Jonathan talked to us about long COVID, which does not
Speaker 1: and did not and still continues to not receive the
Speaker 1: type of attention that it should.
Speaker 2: I mean long COVID. It feels like every week there's
Speaker 2: a new study coming out. I mean, remember, COVID is
Speaker 2: only three years old, and so every year there's a
Speaker 2: new study coming out about this chronic illness and what
Speaker 2: it does to your body. Particles of virus are still
Speaker 2: living in your body. It does it looks like it
Speaker 2: has an effect where it's actually weakening your immune system,
Speaker 2: so you're going to not just be exhausted, but more
Speaker 2: suceptible to other kinds of different kinds of infections. And
Speaker 2: so the science is the science takes time here. But again,
Speaker 2: there are correlates in everything we know. Right. People know
Speaker 2: that if you have chicken pox, the vus celivaster that
Speaker 2: you know, the virus, the the the chicken pox virus
Speaker 2: that's a herpes virus lives in your body. That's why
Speaker 2: people get shingles later in their life. They don't just
Speaker 2: catch shingles from the air. They get it because the
Speaker 2: herpes virus has been living in their in their body,
Speaker 2: and there's tons of other things that live in our body,
Speaker 2: so it's not that foreign. It's just that again because
Speaker 2: this is so new and the knowledge base is evolving.
Speaker 2: And the reason I'm saying this is because there is
Speaker 2: I agree, a leap of faith here, right. I mean,
Speaker 2: you could get the virus even after you've had the vaccine.
Speaker 2: You could get long COVID, even if you have vaccine.
Speaker 2: We're still figuring it out. I still think overwhelmingly you're
Speaker 2: in a much, much, much safer place if you get
Speaker 2: the if you get the booster. And the reason I
Speaker 2: say that with some edge is because look at what's
Speaker 2: happening in Florida, where the state is basically the state
Speaker 2: attorney general and the governor of the entire state are
Speaker 2: rejecting the vaccine. And so what I worry about are
Speaker 2: two things. Number one is that people are going to
Speaker 2: live in places where getting the vaccine isn't an option
Speaker 2: if they want it, right, getting a booster, We're beyond
Speaker 2: trying to talk people into it. That's just not going
Speaker 2: to happen. But I think the issue is people who
Speaker 2: want it to be able to get it always and
Speaker 2: they can make their choice. And so a place like
Speaker 2: Florida where the Surgeon General is saying we're blocking this
Speaker 2: and we're not whatever, or we're not you know, distributing
Speaker 2: it or funding it, that to me is the real
Speaker 2: risks because they are going to be places like Florida
Speaker 2: where there are a lot of older people or you know, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, we don't even know how many people died in
Speaker 1: Florida because Governor Santis has lied about a lied about
Speaker 1: the statistics and won't and didn't release it right and
Speaker 1: there was no lawsuit to pressure him to do so,
Speaker 1: so we have no idea how many people his rhetoric
Speaker 1: killed in that state over the course of cope. But
Speaker 1: from twenty twenty until now, and.
Speaker 2: Again that's the issue is like there's a there's an
Speaker 2: attack on science, expertise, knowledge data, which is not letting
Speaker 2: people make an informed choice for themselves. So that's part
Speaker 2: of it. The other part is we had funding toward
Speaker 2: developing better vaccines. There are technologies, possibly a nasal spray
Speaker 2: vaccine that's not injected vaccines that work against a whole
Speaker 2: family of coronaviruses. So there's technology we could be developing,
Speaker 2: but we defunded the expertise, right, and so Congress didn't
Speaker 2: pass the right kind of COVID funding to be able
Speaker 2: to let us do it. So part of the reason
Speaker 2: we're in a feedback loop about this is in part
Speaker 2: about the changing nature of the virus, but it's also
Speaker 2: because you might remember last year your COVID booster was free.
Speaker 2: That's not going to be the case this year. You
Speaker 2: need insurance or you're going to be paying out a
Speaker 2: pocket for it. And that's because even though this is
Speaker 2: a public health emergency, we haven't funded the research adequately
Speaker 2: and we are not now funding the rollout adequately. And
Speaker 2: so it's bad because again we don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: in the best of all worlds, COVID just becomes like
Speaker 2: the flu every year, which is lethal for people who
Speaker 2: were at risk, but not lethal every day. But COVID,
Speaker 2: as we've seen, also has the potential to mutate in
Speaker 2: a way that can become much more lethal. And so
Speaker 2: I just feel like we're you know, this is a
Speaker 2: canary in a coal mine kind of moment. It's highlighting
Speaker 2: to us that we're not ready, We're not investing not
Speaker 2: just in people's attitudes, but investing in the infrastructure of
Speaker 2: science that needs to happen to really push this forward.
Speaker 2: I just I really think it's an alarm bell moment,
Speaker 2: honestly for.
Speaker 1: Me, Jonathan, you travel all around the world and have
Speaker 1: colleagues around the world. Can you give us some insight
Speaker 1: into how different countries are dealing with this upsurge and
Speaker 1: what different countries maybe some for better obviously than what
Speaker 1: the United States has done in terms of their funding
Speaker 1: and their education.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a complicated moment because the disinformation infrastructure is
Speaker 2: really powerful around the world. But I can tell you
Speaker 2: that if there are places in the world where these
Speaker 2: new variants of COVID are extolling a huge price, and
Speaker 2: people would line up around the block for a week
Speaker 2: to get access to an MRRNA vaccine, And so the
Speaker 2: privilege of US rejecting this technology when it was something
Speaker 2: that many parts of the world would do anything for,
Speaker 2: because again, as you said, herd immunity doesn't last with COVID, right,
Speaker 2: you actually need to keep getting it. And so there
Speaker 2: are many parts of the world where they don't have
Speaker 2: access to this, and what you see is much more
Speaker 2: endemic illness, not just COVID, but all other kinds of
Speaker 2: illnesses and so so yes, other parts of the world
Speaker 2: are doing a better job of this. I mean again,
Speaker 2: we've only had this booster now for a week, so
Speaker 2: we'll see what happens with other parts of the world.
Speaker 2: But the other issue is places where there aren't regular
Speaker 2: all kinds of vaccines have much more endemic illness. And
Speaker 2: so it's not just about COVID. It's about smallpox and
Speaker 2: measles and mumps and rubella and all the other things
Speaker 2: that kids get vaccinated for. We're seeing not people not
Speaker 2: get those those those vaccines either, and then you're in
Speaker 2: a you're just not in a category with other Western
Speaker 2: countries at that point, you're going to in categories where
Speaker 2: there's a lot of endemic illness circulating. And so it's
Speaker 2: not just about the covide vaccine. The rest of the world,
Speaker 2: at least our correlate nations do a much better job
Speaker 2: of all kinds of vaccines, and what they're going to
Speaker 2: have over time is less circulating all kinds of illness.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the goal of the Republican Party
Speaker 1: is outside of like fascism and authoritarian rule. But I
Speaker 1: think that when you miseducate people and then you ensure
Speaker 1: their illness, right, you ensure the fact that they will
Speaker 1: remain unhealthy. I think that at the in the end,
Speaker 1: they're easier to control, right, And I think that you know,
Speaker 1: for me, I want to get your thoughts, but for me,
Speaker 1: that seems to be the end goal. Keep them sick,
Speaker 1: keep them, keep them stupid, and keep them enraged. And
Speaker 1: that seems to be the recipe that the right is using.
Speaker 2: There's an excellent book called Dying of Whiteness that I hear.
Speaker 2: The second version's coming out in February, and it makes
Speaker 2: that point that there's something really terrifying. It's not just
Speaker 2: about the health. It's that people are making a mortal
Speaker 2: trade off their life for power. When power, power and
Speaker 2: control and owning the Libs becomes the only driver, the
Speaker 2: tradeoff is longevity and right. So people are foot soldiers,
Speaker 2: they are martyrs, they are cannon fodder, all the things
Speaker 2: we've thought of at other points in time. Because I mean,
Speaker 2: there was a great segment on Fox News where all
Speaker 2: the people were coming out against the vaccine yesterday and
Speaker 2: then what's her name, that amazing liberal woman on Fox
Speaker 2: News said wait all you guys got got vaccinated, and
Speaker 2: they were all quiet. I mean, the elites are all
Speaker 2: getting vaccinated, but the lay people are becoming the cannon fodder.
Speaker 2: And so it's a trade off for power that people
Speaker 2: are making. They're sacrificing themselves, and the question is are
Speaker 2: they going to bring us down with them?
Speaker 1: I mean, They're not going to bring me down with them,
Speaker 1: because I'm going to get the goddamn vaccine. I'm going
Speaker 1: to get whatever vaccines are available, because, like, I believe
Speaker 1: in science and I believe in help. But I think
Speaker 1: that when you talk about the foot soldiers and the
Speaker 1: ones that you know are believing the lies that are
Speaker 1: being told by people who are healthy and will remain healthy,
Speaker 1: and even when they fall ill, have the means and
Speaker 1: have the kind of employment that they're able to call
Speaker 1: out right, Like they're talking down to these folks who
Speaker 1: you know, in many cases can't take the days off
Speaker 1: of work if they're feeling ill, can't take the days
Speaker 1: off to care for themselves or their elderly families or
Speaker 1: family members or what have you. And so the idea
Speaker 1: that then they would turn around and they all have
Speaker 1: they are all vaccinated and healthy and well paid and
Speaker 1: have good insurance, and then tell other people who believe
Speaker 1: them not to get the vaccine. It's just like, are
Speaker 1: they flipping the bill at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: But let me just push back on that a little bit,
Speaker 2: because you are are paying the price for it, right.
Speaker 2: You're paying the price because of the cost of getting
Speaker 2: the vaccine. You're paying the price because defunding research means
Speaker 2: that the vaccines that are available to you are going
Speaker 2: to be less effective over time than they are in
Speaker 2: places where people are actually trying to fund the actual research. Right,
Speaker 2: so America is going to fall behind in science and research,
Speaker 2: and so you're paying the price. In that way, you're
Speaker 2: paying the price because there's more circulating pathogen of all kinds.
Speaker 2: And so I wish it was just that like they
Speaker 2: make their choice and they die for that, which they do.
Speaker 2: But it's also that we all pay the price because
Speaker 2: public health is a communal enterprise and when we defund
Speaker 2: that those networks, then we all pay the price. And
Speaker 2: I know you know what I just said.
Speaker 1: No, I absolutely do. I absolutely do, and that we're
Speaker 1: living at a time when what I think and what
Speaker 1: I will do for myself doesn't actually matter, right because
Speaker 1: we are not community minded. That is not what this
Speaker 1: country was built on. It's not how we've ever operated.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, we're in a time when you need to
Speaker 1: be thinking about the whole and not the individual. And
Speaker 1: that's not America's strong suit and never has been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so I will say one last thing.
Speaker 2: I know we're out a time, this is kind of related,
Speaker 2: but how do we change course? And we can talk
Speaker 2: about it next week. There's a huge mayor election in
Speaker 2: Nashville tomorrow, a Trump candidate versus a progressive candidate for
Speaker 2: mayor of Nashville. I just filmed a video supporting Freddie O'Connell,
Speaker 2: the incredible progressive candidate who's running on a platform of
Speaker 2: like rebuilding infrastructure, rebuilding health education. So there'll be some
Speaker 2: news coming out of Nashville about you know, Nashville obviously
Speaker 2: is a blue bubble, but potentially turning the tide in
Speaker 2: red states about some of this health infrastructure stuff. So
Speaker 2: next week we talk about the mayor election that's happening here.
Speaker 2: But I just want people to note that there are
Speaker 2: some tides turning down here in the South, potentially depending
Speaker 2: on what happens with elections like these ones.
Speaker 1: Jonathan, we will have to leave it there today. Thank you,
Speaker 1: my friend, for making the time and for giving us
Speaker 1: some real insight into COVID, which is not gone and
Speaker 1: is making a comeback.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you, Thank you, and everybody. Get the booster.
Speaker 1: Everyone, get the booster. That is it for me today,
Speaker 1: dear friends on Woke a f as always Power to
Speaker 1: the people and to all the people. Power. Get woke
Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.