WEBVTT - The Importance of Getting Boosted 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.000 me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:24.720 Happy Monday and for those of you who celebrated Russia, 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:28.360 Shana Shaanatoba, and happy New Year to all of you. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:34.800 I hope that you had a good holiday weekend. You know, folks, 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.519 in thinking about just the next couple of months of 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.520 this year, and you know, there are all of these 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.120 memes that go around in September that are like, there 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.000 are four months left of you know, twenty twenty three, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:50.959 and like what are you going to do with yourself? 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.800 And there's always this pressure to somehow finish the year, 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.800 you know, on top whatever that on top means for you. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.800 And I'm really working these days to reformulate and reimagine 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.320 what it means for me to be able to finish 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.600 out a year or as in the Rashishana tradition, start 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:21.600 a new year. And it isn't about how much you accomplish, 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:26.520 how many things you've checked off, how productive you have been, 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:31.240 how you know great you have performed. It's for me 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.400 these days the question is how is my body feeling? 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.240 How is my mind feeling how is my spirit feeling 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:46.440 and what success is looking like for me is being 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.520 able to wake up each day and end each day 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:54.040 with the sense of ease. Right. It doesn't mean that 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.800 the day was easy. It doesn't mean that there weren't 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.600 any obstacles that showed up. But it is about the 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:05.000 nimbleness and the ability to kind of move in flow 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:10.240 and be able to operate in a way that centers 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:16.720 peace and ease and joy. And you know, it used 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.400 to be that when I was racing towards the end 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.000 of the year, I wanted to be able to post 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.800 on social and list off all of my accomplishments and 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.359 look at me, aren't I hashtag badass? Hashtag hustler, hashtag 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.680 you know, grinding? And I just don't have the energy 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.040 for that shit anymore. I don't know about y'all, but 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.919 I really just don't. And maybe it is, you know, age, 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.960 Maybe it is the fact that everywhere that you look, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.000 you know, people are losing their lives in the tens 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.720 of thousands in an instant, in a blink of an eye, 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:57.040 in one illness, in one you know, catastrophic climate disaster, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.800 in you know, a moment, and so oh, just this 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:06.720 idea of racing towards something. I just don't know what 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.760 the point of it is, right, except to feed into 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:16.040 this capitalistic, greedy beast that is never satiated. And the 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:21.160 other day I posted this awful interview that Tim Grunner did, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:26.160 this billionaire Australian billionaire, basically talking about the fact that 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.840 pain and suffering need to happen so that people understand 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.600 who's in power, That it's not the workers, it's the employers, 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.600 and all of these things. And I'm just like, this 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.440 world is filled with a lot of evil, a lot 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:48.360 of bad people, and I don't want to stress myself 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:54.280 out in a way that makes disease, right, disease, disease 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.920 take hold of my mind, my body, and my spirit. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.280 And so, you know, as we change seasons, and if 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.840 you're listening to this and you're you know, in the 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:09.240 northern hemisphere and we're you know, shifting seasons and things 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.760 are getting cooler, I mean, I just use it as 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:17.719 an opportunity to really begin to ground and connect with 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:23.440 myself and kind of prepare right for those winter months. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.320 Who even knows will it actually be winter. We have 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.359 no fucking idea, but I do know that mentally, I 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.760 don't want to end the year exhausted. I don't want 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.880 to end the year, you know, feeling like I need 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.760 to sleep for the month of December in order to 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.480 work up the energy to even tackle twenty twenty four. 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.279 And so I just encourage you as we are, you know, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.919 changing seasons this week and moving, you know, towards the 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.279 end of this year, that you start to take real 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.120 stock over how you were feeling. Ask yourself, how is 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.560 my spirit feeling? And if it isn't feeling good right, 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.400 then what are some things that you can do to 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.200 help aid in that? And if that means tuning out 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:18.400 of the hate spin and you know, and tuning in 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.640 to people who need your love and care and attention, 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.200 whether that's a pet, a child, a plant, do so. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.960 Do so. But I want to encourage all of us 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.840 to be checking in, you know, with ourselves, every day, 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.000 every day, every week, because this is the only vessel 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:42.239 we got. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:49.760 our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.599 that whenever we have the time and opportunity to speak 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.320 with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, we are 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.800 always pleased to do. So I want to bring it 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.640 to everyone's attention right now that I'm certain that you've 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.240 all received the alerts from the New York Times and 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:12.480 other outlets that tell us that the vaccines, the latest 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:17.359 boosters for COVID have been approved and are beginning to 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:24.400 be rolled out. And you know, I am somebody who 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.640 believes in vaccines, believes in science, and will be getting 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.800 uh the booster when it is available in my area, 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.160 which should be by the end of this month. However, 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.160 given this state of affairs of the United States and 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.880 the division along you know, fishtistic lines and the Republican 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.719 Party not believing in science, wanting to kill people, you know, 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.920 a whole host of things, there are articles that are 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.760 coming out op eds urging people to get the vaccine. So, Jonathan, 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:59.120 I want to start with you. You know, I now know 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:05.400 why two, three, four, five people that have that either 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.560 currently have COVID or getting over COVID, or just finished 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:16.760 having COVID. And this is my mother is the same. 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.520 She has known several people over the last two months 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.640 that have all gotten COVID. We know that it's on 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:28.120 the rise. What are your thoughts about the booster, about education, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.760 around the booster, and the fact that the last time 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.520 the booster came out, according to CDC reports, only twenty 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.160 percent of Americans got them. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.320 It was less than twenty percent. I think when I 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:45.040 read it was seventeen percent. So it's it's well, let's 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:49.080 back up. In an ideal world, we have an infection, 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.720 we have a virus that's circulating around. It takes a 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:57.560 long time to formulate a vaccine, but once you have 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.240 like the infrastructure of the vaccine are built, then you're 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.320 just trying to anticipate, like, what's this virus that's mutating 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.440 ten zillion times a second, what's the virus going to 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.800 look like ten months from now when this vaccine will 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:17.680 become available. And so a vaccine is never going to 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.280 be like a perfect protection, right because even now we're 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.640 seeing with COVID, the COVID is changing in a way, 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.960 but the infrastructure of the vaccine itself is still exactly 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.520 the same. And so we have so much evidence right 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:37.479 now about the overarching safety of this vaccine, this vaccine framework, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:43.760 and I don't know, I mean, for me, what do 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.880 we do about disinformation right now? I mean, the good 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:52.959 thing about this really, honestly is it's not like in 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.080 other illnesses we need like smallpox or polio or things 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.360 like that, we need like eighty percent of the people 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.640 to have immunity or ninety percent or something like that, 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:09.280 or else we won't have heard immunity. But with COVID, 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.199 I feel like people who people who don't want to 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.240 get the vaccine, don't get the vaccine, you're just going 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.679 to have a higher risk of more serious COVID. But 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.920 the crazy thing is if you look on Twitter, everybody's like, 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.800 I'm not going to get the mRNA vaccine because I'm 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.920 waiting for the and then they'll say some vaccine that 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.360 hasn't even been tested that we have no idea works 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.040 or something like that, and so it's just it's a 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.040 crazy world we're living in right now. We kind of 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.560 keep living the same thing over and over and over. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:41.960 I'm going to be the first guy in line when 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.599 the vaccine comes out. I feel like the data is 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.680 pretty clear that places that got the booster did better 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.960 with health outcomes than places that didn't do the booster. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.840 The inexact science part of it isn't whether or not 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.360 the vaccine works, whether it's safe or it's been tested 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.200 on humans. That is a subtle debate. Honestly, the inexact 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.800 science is is the thing that scientists did eight months ago. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.960 How well did they predict what's going to happen with 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.520 the COVID vaccine. The basic assumption is that we're going 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.160 to be all on the chain member like that we had, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.920 like the alpha beta. The micron chain then was dominant, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.640 and so they're just betting that we're still going to 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.680 be on the same chain, which hopefully is going to 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.199 be the case. I think early data is pretty encouraging 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.840 that this vaccine is going to be protective against the boosters, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.280 and so I guess the only thing I can say 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.240 is what I always say, which is I would urge 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.480 people who want to stay safer than they would otherwise 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:41.600 to go out and get the booster. 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.280 I just want to read a part of an op 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.520 ed that is out right now by doctor Mandy Cohen 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.200 in the New York Times, and she says this, some 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.319 viruses change over time. This coronavirus is one of them. 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.359 It finds ways to a beta immune systems by constantly evolving. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.520 That's why our vaccines need to be updated to match 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.120 the changed virus. Even though many Americans have been exposed 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.520 to previous versions of the virus because they've been infected, 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.320 that protection decreases over time. So Jonathan, just pause for 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:22.080 a second. Can you speak to this idea that, well, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.640 I got a shot and I got another shot, shouldn't 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:30.439 I be good? Because she's expressly saying here that even 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.880 though you may have been infected before and had COVID, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.560 even though you may have had these other boosters, that 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:39.360 the protection decreases over time. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.720 I mean, we do that every year with flu, Right, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.520 you had the flu last year, but then the flu 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.240 changed and then you need the updated flu shot. We 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.360 do that with all kinds of things where we need 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.160 different kinds of boosters just because you got an illness 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.880 went so the illness itself is changing, right, And again, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:59.400 the important point is the basic infrastructure of the vaccine 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.400 isn't changed. It's just the formulation that's changing. And so 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.760 the idea that you're going to go out and test 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.760 this exact formulation on people for five years before you 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.080 get approval is idiotic because by that point it'll be 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.640 another formulation of the illness. And so it's a kind 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.480 of a cat and mouse game that we're playing I'm 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.120 pretty optimistic that they got it right this time. But 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:24.720 COVID changes continually and in ways that we don't know 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.880 is it going to get more severe or less severe? 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.000 I mean, the reality is to me, you know, I 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:36.439 don't understand why Americans aren't as adaptable to logic, which 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.720 is that to your very point, you get a flu 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.040 shot every year, you don't get one flu shot at 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.480 ten years old, and then you're just like, well, I 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.880 already had one, hap, come I'm not covered. It's because 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:54.320 the flu is a type of virus that changes over time, right, 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.480 that learns our body and then finds different ways to 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.520 get in. And that is similarly with what she also 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.160 writes doctor Mandy Collen in this New York Times op 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:08.320 ed is this. From January to July twenty twenty three, 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.360 eighty eight percent of deaths from COVID nineteen were among 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.640 people who were sixty five years or older, those with 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.000 certain underlying health conditions approximately seventy percent of American adults, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.480 and weakened immune systems also are greater risk for younger 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.040 and healthier adults. But then she said something that I 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:26.960 think is really important that I want you to weigh 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.120 in on she says, quote, what's more, anyone who gets 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:35.800 infected with COVID can develop long COVID, and I don't 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.120 want any American to experience that if it can be avoided. 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:43.080 Jonathan talked to us about long COVID, which does not 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.440 and did not and still continues to not receive the 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.560 type of attention that it should. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.160 I mean long COVID. It feels like every week there's 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.480 a new study coming out. I mean, remember, COVID is 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.720 only three years old, and so every year there's a 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.160 new study coming out about this chronic illness and what 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.160 it does to your body. Particles of virus are still 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.000 living in your body. It does it looks like it 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.600 has an effect where it's actually weakening your immune system, 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:19.080 so you're going to not just be exhausted, but more 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.320 suceptible to other kinds of different kinds of infections. And 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.840 so the science is the science takes time here. But again, 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.080 there are correlates in everything we know. Right. People know 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.960 that if you have chicken pox, the vus celivaster that 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:39.280 you know, the virus, the the the chicken pox virus 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.800 that's a herpes virus lives in your body. That's why 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.880 people get shingles later in their life. They don't just 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.280 catch shingles from the air. They get it because the 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.800 herpes virus has been living in their in their body, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.440 and there's tons of other things that live in our body, 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.080 so it's not that foreign. It's just that again because 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.440 this is so new and the knowledge base is evolving. 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.560 And the reason I'm saying this is because there is 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.640 I agree, a leap of faith here, right. I mean, 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.680 you could get the virus even after you've had the vaccine. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:13.840 You could get long COVID, even if you have vaccine. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.480 We're still figuring it out. I still think overwhelmingly you're 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.560 in a much, much, much safer place if you get 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.200 the if you get the booster. And the reason I 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.040 say that with some edge is because look at what's 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.320 happening in Florida, where the state is basically the state 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.920 attorney general and the governor of the entire state are 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.600 rejecting the vaccine. And so what I worry about are 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.240 two things. Number one is that people are going to 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.360 live in places where getting the vaccine isn't an option 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.280 if they want it, right, getting a booster, We're beyond 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:47.880 trying to talk people into it. That's just not going 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.640 to happen. But I think the issue is people who 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.040 want it to be able to get it always and 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.160 they can make their choice. And so a place like 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.680 Florida where the Surgeon General is saying we're blocking this 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.640 and we're not whatever, or we're not you know, distributing 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.560 it or funding it, that to me is the real 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.480 risks because they are going to be places like Florida 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.840 where there are a lot of older people or you know, I. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:13.760 Mean, we don't even know how many people died in 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.280 Florida because Governor Santis has lied about a lied about 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.640 the statistics and won't and didn't release it right and 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.200 there was no lawsuit to pressure him to do so, 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.240 so we have no idea how many people his rhetoric 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.000 killed in that state over the course of cope. But 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.560 from twenty twenty until now, and. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:36.720 Again that's the issue is like there's a there's an 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:41.160 attack on science, expertise, knowledge data, which is not letting 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.240 people make an informed choice for themselves. So that's part 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.400 of it. The other part is we had funding toward 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:56.280 developing better vaccines. There are technologies, possibly a nasal spray 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.320 vaccine that's not injected vaccines that work against a whole 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:05.400 family of coronaviruses. So there's technology we could be developing, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:11.359 but we defunded the expertise, right, and so Congress didn't 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.240 pass the right kind of COVID funding to be able 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.640 to let us do it. So part of the reason 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.880 we're in a feedback loop about this is in part 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.359 about the changing nature of the virus, but it's also 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.760 because you might remember last year your COVID booster was free. 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:28.480 That's not going to be the case this year. You 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.280 need insurance or you're going to be paying out a 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.600 pocket for it. And that's because even though this is 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.080 a public health emergency, we haven't funded the research adequately 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.760 and we are not now funding the rollout adequately. And 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.080 so it's bad because again we don't know. I mean, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.320 in the best of all worlds, COVID just becomes like 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.119 the flu every year, which is lethal for people who 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.600 were at risk, but not lethal every day. But COVID, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.280 as we've seen, also has the potential to mutate in 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.040 a way that can become much more lethal. And so 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.840 I just feel like we're you know, this is a 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.040 canary in a coal mine kind of moment. It's highlighting 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.200 to us that we're not ready, We're not investing not 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.159 just in people's attitudes, but investing in the infrastructure of 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:17.199 science that needs to happen to really push this forward. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.680 I just I really think it's an alarm bell moment, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:20.280 honestly for. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:25.720 Me, Jonathan, you travel all around the world and have 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.160 colleagues around the world. Can you give us some insight 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:35.640 into how different countries are dealing with this upsurge and 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.480 what different countries maybe some for better obviously than what 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.000 the United States has done in terms of their funding 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:43.360 and their education. 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:48.159 Well, it's a complicated moment because the disinformation infrastructure is 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.879 really powerful around the world. But I can tell you 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.880 that if there are places in the world where these 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.680 new variants of COVID are extolling a huge price, and 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.520 people would line up around the block for a week 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.879 to get access to an MRRNA vaccine, And so the 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:12.919 privilege of US rejecting this technology when it was something 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.280 that many parts of the world would do anything for, 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:19.600 because again, as you said, herd immunity doesn't last with COVID, right, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.919 you actually need to keep getting it. And so there 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:23.480 are many parts of the world where they don't have 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:28.680 access to this, and what you see is much more 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.560 endemic illness, not just COVID, but all other kinds of 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.400 illnesses and so so yes, other parts of the world 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.440 are doing a better job of this. I mean again, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:39.800 we've only had this booster now for a week, so 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.040 we'll see what happens with other parts of the world. 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.639 But the other issue is places where there aren't regular 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.720 all kinds of vaccines have much more endemic illness. And 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.959 so it's not just about COVID. It's about smallpox and 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.960 measles and mumps and rubella and all the other things 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.720 that kids get vaccinated for. We're seeing not people not 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.399 get those those those vaccines either, and then you're in 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.160 a you're just not in a category with other Western 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.480 countries at that point, you're going to in categories where 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.880 there's a lot of endemic illness circulating. And so it's 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.840 not just about the covide vaccine. The rest of the world, 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:20.880 at least our correlate nations do a much better job 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.000 of all kinds of vaccines, and what they're going to 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.120 have over time is less circulating all kinds of illness. 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.680 I mean, I think that at the end of the day. 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.119 I don't know what the goal of the Republican Party 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.280 is outside of like fascism and authoritarian rule. But I 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:40.240 think that when you miseducate people and then you ensure 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.560 their illness, right, you ensure the fact that they will 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.560 remain unhealthy. I think that at the in the end, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.479 they're easier to control, right, And I think that you know, 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.040 for me, I want to get your thoughts, but for me, 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.919 that seems to be the end goal. Keep them sick, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:21:01.680 keep them, keep them stupid, and keep them enraged. And 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.560 that seems to be the recipe that the right is using. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.680 There's an excellent book called Dying of Whiteness that I hear. 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.680 The second version's coming out in February, and it makes 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.439 that point that there's something really terrifying. It's not just 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.600 about the health. It's that people are making a mortal 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.760 trade off their life for power. When power, power and 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.359 control and owning the Libs becomes the only driver, the 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.280 tradeoff is longevity and right. So people are foot soldiers, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.880 they are martyrs, they are cannon fodder, all the things 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:36.159 we've thought of at other points in time. Because I mean, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:38.000 there was a great segment on Fox News where all 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.600 the people were coming out against the vaccine yesterday and 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.440 then what's her name, that amazing liberal woman on Fox 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.919 News said wait all you guys got got vaccinated, and 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.200 they were all quiet. I mean, the elites are all 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:54.240 getting vaccinated, but the lay people are becoming the cannon fodder. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.720 And so it's a trade off for power that people 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.919 are making. They're sacrificing themselves, and the question is are 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.200 they going to bring us down with them? 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:04.639 I mean, They're not going to bring me down with them, 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:06.520 because I'm going to get the goddamn vaccine. I'm going 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.840 to get whatever vaccines are available, because, like, I believe 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.000 in science and I believe in help. But I think 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.560 that when you talk about the foot soldiers and the 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:18.760 ones that you know are believing the lies that are 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.000 being told by people who are healthy and will remain healthy, 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.800 and even when they fall ill, have the means and 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.040 have the kind of employment that they're able to call 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.879 out right, Like they're talking down to these folks who 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.560 you know, in many cases can't take the days off 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.280 of work if they're feeling ill, can't take the days 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.800 off to care for themselves or their elderly families or 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.960 family members or what have you. And so the idea 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.240 that then they would turn around and they all have 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:49.359 they are all vaccinated and healthy and well paid and 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.159 have good insurance, and then tell other people who believe 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.920 them not to get the vaccine. It's just like, are 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.000 they flipping the bill at the end of the day. 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.280 But let me just push back on that a little bit, 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:01.440 because you are are paying the price for it, right. 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.240 You're paying the price because of the cost of getting 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:08.080 the vaccine. You're paying the price because defunding research means 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.840 that the vaccines that are available to you are going 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.960 to be less effective over time than they are in 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.720 places where people are actually trying to fund the actual research. Right, 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:21.880 so America is going to fall behind in science and research, 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.120 and so you're paying the price. In that way, you're 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:29.399 paying the price because there's more circulating pathogen of all kinds. 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.000 And so I wish it was just that like they 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:35.400 make their choice and they die for that, which they do. 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.719 But it's also that we all pay the price because 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.760 public health is a communal enterprise and when we defund 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:45.320 that those networks, then we all pay the price. And 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.040 I know you know what I just said. 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:50.840 No, I absolutely do. I absolutely do, and that we're 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:53.320 living at a time when what I think and what 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.800 I will do for myself doesn't actually matter, right because 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.359 we are not community minded. That is not what this 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.440 country was built on. It's not how we've ever operated. 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:05.239 And unfortunately, we're in a time when you need to 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.760 be thinking about the whole and not the individual. And 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.200 that's not America's strong suit and never has been. 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:14.199