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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with

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Speaker 1: me your girl, Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

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Speaker 1: Happy Monday and for those of you who celebrated Russia,

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Speaker 1: Shana Shaanatoba, and happy New Year to all of you.

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Speaker 1: I hope that you had a good holiday weekend. You know, folks,

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Speaker 1: in thinking about just the next couple of months of

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Speaker 1: this year, and you know, there are all of these

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Speaker 1: memes that go around in September that are like, there

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Speaker 1: are four months left of you know, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: and like what are you going to do with yourself?

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Speaker 1: And there's always this pressure to somehow finish the year,

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Speaker 1: you know, on top whatever that on top means for you.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really working these days to reformulate and reimagine

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Speaker 1: what it means for me to be able to finish

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Speaker 1: out a year or as in the Rashishana tradition, start

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Speaker 1: a new year. And it isn't about how much you accomplish,

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Speaker 1: how many things you've checked off, how productive you have been,

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Speaker 1: how you know great you have performed. It's for me

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Speaker 1: these days the question is how is my body feeling?

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Speaker 1: How is my mind feeling how is my spirit feeling

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Speaker 1: and what success is looking like for me is being

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Speaker 1: able to wake up each day and end each day

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Speaker 1: with the sense of ease. Right. It doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: the day was easy. It doesn't mean that there weren't

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Speaker 1: any obstacles that showed up. But it is about the

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Speaker 1: nimbleness and the ability to kind of move in flow

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Speaker 1: and be able to operate in a way that centers

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Speaker 1: peace and ease and joy. And you know, it used

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Speaker 1: to be that when I was racing towards the end

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Speaker 1: of the year, I wanted to be able to post

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Speaker 1: on social and list off all of my accomplishments and

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Speaker 1: look at me, aren't I hashtag badass? Hashtag hustler, hashtag

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Speaker 1: you know, grinding? And I just don't have the energy

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Speaker 1: for that shit anymore. I don't know about y'all, but

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Speaker 1: I really just don't. And maybe it is, you know, age,

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Speaker 1: Maybe it is the fact that everywhere that you look,

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Speaker 1: you know, people are losing their lives in the tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands in an instant, in a blink of an eye,

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Speaker 1: in one illness, in one you know, catastrophic climate disaster,

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Speaker 1: in you know, a moment, and so oh, just this

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Speaker 1: idea of racing towards something. I just don't know what

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Speaker 1: the point of it is, right, except to feed into

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Speaker 1: this capitalistic, greedy beast that is never satiated. And the

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Speaker 1: other day I posted this awful interview that Tim Grunner did,

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Speaker 1: this billionaire Australian billionaire, basically talking about the fact that

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Speaker 1: pain and suffering need to happen so that people understand

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Speaker 1: who's in power, That it's not the workers, it's the employers,

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Speaker 1: and all of these things. And I'm just like, this

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Speaker 1: world is filled with a lot of evil, a lot

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Speaker 1: of bad people, and I don't want to stress myself

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Speaker 1: out in a way that makes disease, right, disease, disease

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Speaker 1: take hold of my mind, my body, and my spirit.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, as we change seasons, and if

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Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're you know, in the

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Speaker 1: northern hemisphere and we're you know, shifting seasons and things

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Speaker 1: are getting cooler, I mean, I just use it as

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to really begin to ground and connect with

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Speaker 1: myself and kind of prepare right for those winter months.

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Speaker 1: Who even knows will it actually be winter. We have

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Speaker 1: no fucking idea, but I do know that mentally, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to end the year exhausted. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to end the year, you know, feeling like I need

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Speaker 1: to sleep for the month of December in order to

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Speaker 1: work up the energy to even tackle twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: And so I just encourage you as we are, you know,

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Speaker 1: changing seasons this week and moving, you know, towards the

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Speaker 1: end of this year, that you start to take real

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Speaker 1: stock over how you were feeling. Ask yourself, how is

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Speaker 1: my spirit feeling? And if it isn't feeling good right,

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Speaker 1: then what are some things that you can do to

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Speaker 1: help aid in that? And if that means tuning out

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Speaker 1: of the hate spin and you know, and tuning in

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Speaker 1: to people who need your love and care and attention,

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Speaker 1: whether that's a pet, a child, a plant, do so.

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Speaker 1: Do so. But I want to encourage all of us

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Speaker 1: to be checking in, you know, with ourselves, every day,

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Speaker 1: every day, every week, because this is the only vessel

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Speaker 1: we got. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend,

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Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know

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Speaker 1: that whenever we have the time and opportunity to speak

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Speaker 1: with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, we are

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Speaker 1: always pleased to do. So I want to bring it

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Speaker 1: to everyone's attention right now that I'm certain that you've

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Speaker 1: all received the alerts from the New York Times and

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Speaker 1: other outlets that tell us that the vaccines, the latest

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Speaker 1: boosters for COVID have been approved and are beginning to

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Speaker 1: be rolled out. And you know, I am somebody who

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Speaker 1: believes in vaccines, believes in science, and will be getting

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Speaker 1: uh the booster when it is available in my area,

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Speaker 1: which should be by the end of this month. However,

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Speaker 1: given this state of affairs of the United States and

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Speaker 1: the division along you know, fishtistic lines and the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party not believing in science, wanting to kill people, you know,

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Speaker 1: a whole host of things, there are articles that are

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Speaker 1: coming out op eds urging people to get the vaccine. So, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: I want to start with you. You know, I now know

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Speaker 1: why two, three, four, five people that have that either

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Speaker 1: currently have COVID or getting over COVID, or just finished

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Speaker 1: having COVID. And this is my mother is the same.

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Speaker 1: She has known several people over the last two months

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Speaker 1: that have all gotten COVID. We know that it's on

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Speaker 1: the rise. What are your thoughts about the booster, about education,

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Speaker 1: around the booster, and the fact that the last time

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Speaker 1: the booster came out, according to CDC reports, only twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of Americans got them.

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Speaker 2: It was less than twenty percent. I think when I

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Speaker 2: read it was seventeen percent. So it's it's well, let's

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Speaker 2: back up. In an ideal world, we have an infection,

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Speaker 2: we have a virus that's circulating around. It takes a

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Speaker 2: long time to formulate a vaccine, but once you have

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Speaker 2: like the infrastructure of the vaccine are built, then you're

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Speaker 2: just trying to anticipate, like, what's this virus that's mutating

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Speaker 2: ten zillion times a second, what's the virus going to

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Speaker 2: look like ten months from now when this vaccine will

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Speaker 2: become available. And so a vaccine is never going to

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Speaker 2: be like a perfect protection, right because even now we're

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Speaker 2: seeing with COVID, the COVID is changing in a way,

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Speaker 2: but the infrastructure of the vaccine itself is still exactly

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Speaker 2: the same. And so we have so much evidence right

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Speaker 2: now about the overarching safety of this vaccine, this vaccine framework,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know, I mean, for me, what do

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Speaker 2: we do about disinformation right now? I mean, the good

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Speaker 2: thing about this really, honestly is it's not like in

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Speaker 2: other illnesses we need like smallpox or polio or things

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Speaker 2: like that, we need like eighty percent of the people

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Speaker 2: to have immunity or ninety percent or something like that,

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Speaker 2: or else we won't have heard immunity. But with COVID,

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Speaker 2: I feel like people who people who don't want to

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Speaker 2: get the vaccine, don't get the vaccine, you're just going

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Speaker 2: to have a higher risk of more serious COVID. But

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Speaker 2: the crazy thing is if you look on Twitter, everybody's like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to get the mRNA vaccine because I'm

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Speaker 2: waiting for the and then they'll say some vaccine that

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Speaker 2: hasn't even been tested that we have no idea works

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Speaker 2: or something like that, and so it's just it's a

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Speaker 2: crazy world we're living in right now. We kind of

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Speaker 2: keep living the same thing over and over and over.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be the first guy in line when

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Speaker 2: the vaccine comes out. I feel like the data is

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Speaker 2: pretty clear that places that got the booster did better

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Speaker 2: with health outcomes than places that didn't do the booster.

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Speaker 2: The inexact science part of it isn't whether or not

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Speaker 2: the vaccine works, whether it's safe or it's been tested

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Speaker 2: on humans. That is a subtle debate. Honestly, the inexact

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Speaker 2: science is is the thing that scientists did eight months ago.

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Speaker 2: How well did they predict what's going to happen with

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Speaker 2: the COVID vaccine. The basic assumption is that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be all on the chain member like that we had,

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Speaker 2: like the alpha beta. The micron chain then was dominant,

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Speaker 2: and so they're just betting that we're still going to

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Speaker 2: be on the same chain, which hopefully is going to

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Speaker 2: be the case. I think early data is pretty encouraging

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Speaker 2: that this vaccine is going to be protective against the boosters,

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Speaker 2: and so I guess the only thing I can say

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Speaker 2: is what I always say, which is I would urge

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Speaker 2: people who want to stay safer than they would otherwise

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Speaker 2: to go out and get the booster.

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Speaker 1: I just want to read a part of an op

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Speaker 1: ed that is out right now by doctor Mandy Cohen

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times, and she says this, some

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Speaker 1: viruses change over time. This coronavirus is one of them.

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Speaker 1: It finds ways to a beta immune systems by constantly evolving.

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Speaker 1: That's why our vaccines need to be updated to match

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Speaker 1: the changed virus. Even though many Americans have been exposed

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Speaker 1: to previous versions of the virus because they've been infected,

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Speaker 1: that protection decreases over time. So Jonathan, just pause for

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Speaker 1: a second. Can you speak to this idea that, well,

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Speaker 1: I got a shot and I got another shot, shouldn't

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Speaker 1: I be good? Because she's expressly saying here that even

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Speaker 1: though you may have been infected before and had COVID,

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Speaker 1: even though you may have had these other boosters, that

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Speaker 1: the protection decreases over time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we do that every year with flu, Right,

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Speaker 2: you had the flu last year, but then the flu

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Speaker 2: changed and then you need the updated flu shot. We

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Speaker 2: do that with all kinds of things where we need

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Speaker 2: different kinds of boosters just because you got an illness

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Speaker 2: went so the illness itself is changing, right, And again,

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Speaker 2: the important point is the basic infrastructure of the vaccine

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Speaker 2: isn't changed. It's just the formulation that's changing. And so

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Speaker 2: the idea that you're going to go out and test

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Speaker 2: this exact formulation on people for five years before you

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Speaker 2: get approval is idiotic because by that point it'll be

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Speaker 2: another formulation of the illness. And so it's a kind

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Speaker 2: of a cat and mouse game that we're playing I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty optimistic that they got it right this time. But

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Speaker 2: COVID changes continually and in ways that we don't know

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Speaker 2: is it going to get more severe or less severe?

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Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is to me, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't understand why Americans aren't as adaptable to logic, which

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Speaker 1: is that to your very point, you get a flu

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Speaker 1: shot every year, you don't get one flu shot at

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Speaker 1: ten years old, and then you're just like, well, I

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Speaker 1: already had one, hap, come I'm not covered. It's because

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Speaker 1: the flu is a type of virus that changes over time, right,

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Speaker 1: that learns our body and then finds different ways to

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Speaker 1: get in. And that is similarly with what she also

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Speaker 1: writes doctor Mandy Collen in this New York Times op

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Speaker 1: ed is this. From January to July twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: eighty eight percent of deaths from COVID nineteen were among

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Speaker 1: people who were sixty five years or older, those with

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Speaker 1: certain underlying health conditions approximately seventy percent of American adults,

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Speaker 1: and weakened immune systems also are greater risk for younger

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Speaker 1: and healthier adults. But then she said something that I

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Speaker 1: think is really important that I want you to weigh

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Speaker 1: in on she says, quote, what's more, anyone who gets

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Speaker 1: infected with COVID can develop long COVID, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want any American to experience that if it can be avoided.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan talked to us about long COVID, which does not

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Speaker 1: and did not and still continues to not receive the

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Speaker 1: type of attention that it should.

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Speaker 2: I mean long COVID. It feels like every week there's

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Speaker 2: a new study coming out. I mean, remember, COVID is

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Speaker 2: only three years old, and so every year there's a

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Speaker 2: new study coming out about this chronic illness and what

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Speaker 2: it does to your body. Particles of virus are still

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Speaker 2: living in your body. It does it looks like it

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Speaker 2: has an effect where it's actually weakening your immune system,

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Speaker 2: so you're going to not just be exhausted, but more

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Speaker 2: suceptible to other kinds of different kinds of infections. And

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Speaker 2: so the science is the science takes time here. But again,

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Speaker 2: there are correlates in everything we know. Right. People know

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Speaker 2: that if you have chicken pox, the vus celivaster that

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Speaker 2: you know, the virus, the the the chicken pox virus

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Speaker 2: that's a herpes virus lives in your body. That's why

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Speaker 2: people get shingles later in their life. They don't just

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Speaker 2: catch shingles from the air. They get it because the

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Speaker 2: herpes virus has been living in their in their body,

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Speaker 2: and there's tons of other things that live in our body,

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Speaker 2: so it's not that foreign. It's just that again because

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Speaker 2: this is so new and the knowledge base is evolving.

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Speaker 2: And the reason I'm saying this is because there is

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Speaker 2: I agree, a leap of faith here, right. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you could get the virus even after you've had the vaccine.

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Speaker 2: You could get long COVID, even if you have vaccine.

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Speaker 2: We're still figuring it out. I still think overwhelmingly you're

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Speaker 2: in a much, much, much safer place if you get

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Speaker 2: the if you get the booster. And the reason I

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Speaker 2: say that with some edge is because look at what's

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Speaker 2: happening in Florida, where the state is basically the state

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Speaker 2: attorney general and the governor of the entire state are

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Speaker 2: rejecting the vaccine. And so what I worry about are

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Speaker 2: two things. Number one is that people are going to

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Speaker 2: live in places where getting the vaccine isn't an option

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Speaker 2: if they want it, right, getting a booster, We're beyond

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Speaker 2: trying to talk people into it. That's just not going

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Speaker 2: to happen. But I think the issue is people who

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Speaker 2: want it to be able to get it always and

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Speaker 2: they can make their choice. And so a place like

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Speaker 2: Florida where the Surgeon General is saying we're blocking this

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Speaker 2: and we're not whatever, or we're not you know, distributing

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Speaker 2: it or funding it, that to me is the real

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Speaker 2: risks because they are going to be places like Florida

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Speaker 2: where there are a lot of older people or you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, we don't even know how many people died in

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Speaker 1: Florida because Governor Santis has lied about a lied about

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Speaker 1: the statistics and won't and didn't release it right and

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Speaker 1: there was no lawsuit to pressure him to do so,

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Speaker 1: so we have no idea how many people his rhetoric

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Speaker 1: killed in that state over the course of cope. But

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Speaker 1: from twenty twenty until now, and.

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Speaker 2: Again that's the issue is like there's a there's an

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Speaker 2: attack on science, expertise, knowledge data, which is not letting

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Speaker 2: people make an informed choice for themselves. So that's part

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Speaker 2: of it. The other part is we had funding toward

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Speaker 2: developing better vaccines. There are technologies, possibly a nasal spray

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Speaker 2: vaccine that's not injected vaccines that work against a whole

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Speaker 2: family of coronaviruses. So there's technology we could be developing,

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Speaker 2: but we defunded the expertise, right, and so Congress didn't

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Speaker 2: pass the right kind of COVID funding to be able

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Speaker 2: to let us do it. So part of the reason

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Speaker 2: we're in a feedback loop about this is in part

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Speaker 2: about the changing nature of the virus, but it's also

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Speaker 2: because you might remember last year your COVID booster was free.

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Speaker 2: That's not going to be the case this year. You

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Speaker 2: need insurance or you're going to be paying out a

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Speaker 2: pocket for it. And that's because even though this is

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Speaker 2: a public health emergency, we haven't funded the research adequately

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Speaker 2: and we are not now funding the rollout adequately. And

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Speaker 2: so it's bad because again we don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: in the best of all worlds, COVID just becomes like

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Speaker 2: the flu every year, which is lethal for people who

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Speaker 2: were at risk, but not lethal every day. But COVID,

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Speaker 2: as we've seen, also has the potential to mutate in

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Speaker 2: a way that can become much more lethal. And so

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Speaker 2: I just feel like we're you know, this is a

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Speaker 2: canary in a coal mine kind of moment. It's highlighting

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Speaker 2: to us that we're not ready, We're not investing not

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Speaker 2: just in people's attitudes, but investing in the infrastructure of

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Speaker 2: science that needs to happen to really push this forward.

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Speaker 2: I just I really think it's an alarm bell moment,

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Speaker 2: honestly for.

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Speaker 1: Me, Jonathan, you travel all around the world and have

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Speaker 1: colleagues around the world. Can you give us some insight

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Speaker 1: into how different countries are dealing with this upsurge and

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Speaker 1: what different countries maybe some for better obviously than what

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Speaker 1: the United States has done in terms of their funding

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Speaker 1: and their education.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a complicated moment because the disinformation infrastructure is

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Speaker 2: really powerful around the world. But I can tell you

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Speaker 2: that if there are places in the world where these

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Speaker 2: new variants of COVID are extolling a huge price, and

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Speaker 2: people would line up around the block for a week

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Speaker 2: to get access to an MRRNA vaccine, And so the

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Speaker 2: privilege of US rejecting this technology when it was something

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Speaker 2: that many parts of the world would do anything for,

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Speaker 2: because again, as you said, herd immunity doesn't last with COVID, right,

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Speaker 2: you actually need to keep getting it. And so there

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Speaker 2: are many parts of the world where they don't have

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Speaker 2: access to this, and what you see is much more

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Speaker 2: endemic illness, not just COVID, but all other kinds of

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Speaker 2: illnesses and so so yes, other parts of the world

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Speaker 2: are doing a better job of this. I mean again,

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Speaker 2: we've only had this booster now for a week, so

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Speaker 2: we'll see what happens with other parts of the world.

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Speaker 2: But the other issue is places where there aren't regular

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Speaker 2: all kinds of vaccines have much more endemic illness. And

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Speaker 2: so it's not just about COVID. It's about smallpox and

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Speaker 2: measles and mumps and rubella and all the other things

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Speaker 2: that kids get vaccinated for. We're seeing not people not

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Speaker 2: get those those those vaccines either, and then you're in

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Speaker 2: a you're just not in a category with other Western

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Speaker 2: countries at that point, you're going to in categories where

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of endemic illness circulating. And so it's

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Speaker 2: not just about the covide vaccine. The rest of the world,

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Speaker 2: at least our correlate nations do a much better job

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Speaker 2: of all kinds of vaccines, and what they're going to

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Speaker 2: have over time is less circulating all kinds of illness.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the goal of the Republican Party

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Speaker 1: is outside of like fascism and authoritarian rule. But I

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Speaker 1: think that when you miseducate people and then you ensure

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Speaker 1: their illness, right, you ensure the fact that they will

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Speaker 1: remain unhealthy. I think that at the in the end,

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Speaker 1: they're easier to control, right, And I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, I want to get your thoughts, but for me,

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Speaker 1: that seems to be the end goal. Keep them sick,

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Speaker 1: keep them, keep them stupid, and keep them enraged. And

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Speaker 1: that seems to be the recipe that the right is using.

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Speaker 2: There's an excellent book called Dying of Whiteness that I hear.

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Speaker 2: The second version's coming out in February, and it makes

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Speaker 2: that point that there's something really terrifying. It's not just

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Speaker 2: about the health. It's that people are making a mortal

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Speaker 2: trade off their life for power. When power, power and

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Speaker 2: control and owning the Libs becomes the only driver, the

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Speaker 2: tradeoff is longevity and right. So people are foot soldiers,

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Speaker 2: they are martyrs, they are cannon fodder, all the things

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Speaker 2: we've thought of at other points in time. Because I mean,

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Speaker 2: there was a great segment on Fox News where all

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Speaker 2: the people were coming out against the vaccine yesterday and

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Speaker 2: then what's her name, that amazing liberal woman on Fox

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Speaker 2: News said wait all you guys got got vaccinated, and

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Speaker 2: they were all quiet. I mean, the elites are all

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Speaker 2: getting vaccinated, but the lay people are becoming the cannon fodder.

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Speaker 2: And so it's a trade off for power that people

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Speaker 2: are making. They're sacrificing themselves, and the question is are

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Speaker 2: they going to bring us down with them?

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Speaker 1: I mean, They're not going to bring me down with them,

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Speaker 1: because I'm going to get the goddamn vaccine. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get whatever vaccines are available, because, like, I believe

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Speaker 1: in science and I believe in help. But I think

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Speaker 1: that when you talk about the foot soldiers and the

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Speaker 1: ones that you know are believing the lies that are

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Speaker 1: being told by people who are healthy and will remain healthy,

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Speaker 1: and even when they fall ill, have the means and

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Speaker 1: have the kind of employment that they're able to call

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Speaker 1: out right, Like they're talking down to these folks who

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Speaker 1: you know, in many cases can't take the days off

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Speaker 1: of work if they're feeling ill, can't take the days

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Speaker 1: off to care for themselves or their elderly families or

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Speaker 1: family members or what have you. And so the idea

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Speaker 1: that then they would turn around and they all have

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Speaker 1: they are all vaccinated and healthy and well paid and

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Speaker 1: have good insurance, and then tell other people who believe

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Speaker 1: them not to get the vaccine. It's just like, are

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Speaker 1: they flipping the bill at the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: But let me just push back on that a little bit,

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Speaker 2: because you are are paying the price for it, right.

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Speaker 2: You're paying the price because of the cost of getting

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Speaker 2: the vaccine. You're paying the price because defunding research means

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Speaker 2: that the vaccines that are available to you are going

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Speaker 2: to be less effective over time than they are in

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Speaker 2: places where people are actually trying to fund the actual research. Right,

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Speaker 2: so America is going to fall behind in science and research,

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Speaker 2: and so you're paying the price. In that way, you're

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Speaker 2: paying the price because there's more circulating pathogen of all kinds.

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Speaker 2: And so I wish it was just that like they

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Speaker 2: make their choice and they die for that, which they do.

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Speaker 2: But it's also that we all pay the price because

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Speaker 2: public health is a communal enterprise and when we defund

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Speaker 2: that those networks, then we all pay the price. And

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Speaker 2: I know you know what I just said.

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Speaker 1: No, I absolutely do. I absolutely do, and that we're

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Speaker 1: living at a time when what I think and what

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Speaker 1: I will do for myself doesn't actually matter, right because

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Speaker 1: we are not community minded. That is not what this

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Speaker 1: country was built on. It's not how we've ever operated.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, we're in a time when you need to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about the whole and not the individual. And

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Speaker 1: that's not America's strong suit and never has been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so I will say one last thing.

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Speaker 2: I know we're out a time, this is kind of related,

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Speaker 2: but how do we change course? And we can talk

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Speaker 2: about it next week. There's a huge mayor election in

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Speaker 2: Nashville tomorrow, a Trump candidate versus a progressive candidate for

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Speaker 2: mayor of Nashville. I just filmed a video supporting Freddie O'Connell,

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Speaker 2: the incredible progressive candidate who's running on a platform of

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Speaker 2: like rebuilding infrastructure, rebuilding health education. So there'll be some

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Speaker 2: news coming out of Nashville about you know, Nashville obviously

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Speaker 2: is a blue bubble, but potentially turning the tide in

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Speaker 2: red states about some of this health infrastructure stuff. So

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Speaker 2: next week we talk about the mayor election that's happening here.

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Speaker 2: But I just want people to note that there are

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Speaker 2: some tides turning down here in the South, potentially depending

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Speaker 2: on what happens with elections like these ones.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan, we will have to leave it there today. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: my friend, for making the time and for giving us

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Speaker 1: some real insight into COVID, which is not gone and

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Speaker 1: is making a comeback.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate you, Thank you, and everybody. Get the booster.

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Speaker 1: Everyone, get the booster. That is it for me today,

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Speaker 1: dear friends on Woke a f as always Power to

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Speaker 1: the people and to all the people. Power. Get woke

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Speaker 1: and stay woke as fuck.