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Speaker 1: Look at so takes a special I'm Joe Dan, It's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful Thames. Joe's at the brim, takes.

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Speaker 2: Time, looks all enough throw it's away from Riham and Mary.

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Speaker 2: This is a famous.

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Speaker 3: Victory minicent performance.

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Speaker 2: Fredericks and Johnson, Johnson clearly and Fredrickson.

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Speaker 1: He's hard Michael.

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Speaker 3: Look is he streaking away? You look at the time.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to a special edition of the Not Dunks podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Leolas. The voice you just heard is tonight's guest.

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Speaker 2: He has covered major events and athletes from all over

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Speaker 2: the world for more than forty years. He's caught everything

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Speaker 2: from horse racing to athletics, to golf and tennis, and

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Speaker 2: he's been a fixture at every Summer Olympics since nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty four. He's as comfortable talking to Serena Williams as

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Speaker 2: he is Usain Bolt or even Michael Jordan. In two

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Speaker 2: thousand and two, he was inducted into the Media Wing

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Speaker 2: of the Australian Sports Hall of Fame. His passionate knowledge

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Speaker 2: for sport inspired me to pursue a career in the

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Speaker 2: media world. He's the most well known broadcaster in Australia

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Speaker 2: and he joins me on the line from his home

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Speaker 2: in Adelaide. Right now, he is Bruce mcavany. Bruce, Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the No Dunk Podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's a pleasurely quite an introduction. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I could have done a whole lot more

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Speaker 2: there too, but I had to try to limit it

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Speaker 2: to a few because you have covered so much in

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Speaker 2: your time as a sports broadcaster. But I guess right now,

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Speaker 2: this is probably the most you've had, the most time

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Speaker 2: you've had on your hands for a while. I guess,

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Speaker 2: was it Richmond Carlton the last time you caught a

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Speaker 2: live sporting event.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I've been involved in our horse racing coverage

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Speaker 1: where I'm hosting rather than calling. So we've been doing

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Speaker 1: that Lee's over the last few weeks, and we've extended

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Speaker 1: that contract. We're a very strange situation like the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world, so with a lack of sport and

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Speaker 1: effect that thoroughbred racing has continued basically unabated in this country.

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Speaker 1: They've been able to get some protocols in place and

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Speaker 1: they've been able to continue on without crowds. But I

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Speaker 1: know in the United States there were two or three

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Speaker 1: states still competing that.

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Speaker 3: Kentucky Derby has been put back. We know that with

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Speaker 3: the Triple Crown.

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Speaker 1: But here in Australia it's almost been a business as

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Speaker 1: usual in the horse racing business, so we've still been

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Speaker 1: doing that. But in terms of AFL, which is the

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Speaker 1: main thing I do through any winter in Australia. You're right,

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Speaker 1: round one, game one, So what would be up to us?

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Speaker 1: I talk to you now about round seven. We're expecting

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Speaker 1: probably to come back towards the end of June. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm missing it like everybody else, and slightly more free

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Speaker 1: time on our hands.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know? I guess no one really knows yet,

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Speaker 2: But would they be the first couple of games back

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Speaker 2: without crowds? Again like empty stadiums?

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Speaker 1: Do you think, lee I dealt whether we'll have crowds

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Speaker 1: for any of the season.

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Speaker 3: Look, I could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: There's a very very chance to the Grand Final we've

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Speaker 1: played before an empty stadium and that's going to be

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Speaker 1: in an awful shame. And I guess that's the conundrum

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Speaker 1: for the administrators for the AFL commission. I mean, do

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Speaker 1: they go ahead with the competition without national rugby leagues

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Speaker 1: in a similar boat? They will they want the players

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Speaker 1: out there, they want the television money, they need the

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Speaker 1: television money, and I work for a network that's desperate

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Speaker 1: to have that content on a Friday night, a Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: and a Sunday afternoon.

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Speaker 3: So I'm pretty sure it's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: But I'm certain to be without crowds earlyly, probably for

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Speaker 1: half a dozen to a dozen weeks, and good chance

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Speaker 1: the Grand Final, which will probably be played late October

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Speaker 1: early November. As you know that Grand Finals traditionally been

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Speaker 1: the last Saturday in September, not always, but that's the

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Speaker 1: traditional spot and there's every chance to be played without

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Speaker 1: a crowd.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. It must feel awkward. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: you've never ever experienced anything like that, So I bet

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Speaker 2: it's funny because everyone does want sport to be up

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Speaker 2: there again and out there playing, but of course everyone

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Speaker 2: wants it to be safe for everybody involved, not just

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Speaker 2: the fans, for the players and the coaches and the

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Speaker 2: administrators and everybody. So hopefully things turn the corner. It

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Speaker 2: certainly seems like Australia is in a better position than

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Speaker 2: we are here in the US. Things don't seem to

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Speaker 2: be getting all that much better. I mean, they're trying

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Speaker 2: to open the country up a little bit, but it

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Speaker 2: hasn't been met with overwhelming success so far. But anyway, listen,

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Speaker 2: there's so much I wanted to talk to you about today, Bruce.

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Speaker 2: You know, because again you've been around sports all over

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Speaker 2: the world for over forty years. But right now what

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Speaker 2: we are getting is a little bit of basketball in

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Speaker 2: the sense that we're getting the Chicago Bulls. This documentary,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you've seen any of it. It's

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Speaker 2: called The Last Dance and it chronicles that last season

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Speaker 2: that Jordan played for Chicago and he won that sixth championship,

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Speaker 2: and I was just wondering, first off, if you've seen that,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, if you haven't, I wanted to

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Speaker 2: talk to you about that time that you sat down

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Speaker 2: with him in nineteen ninety three when he was kind

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Speaker 2: of pretty much in his prime then, and you've got

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Speaker 2: a great chance to opportunity to speak to him in

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Speaker 2: a one on one setting.

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Speaker 3: Lee.

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Speaker 1: I've seen the first one. I watched it last night

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Speaker 1: with my wife Annie. I mean, there are four that

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Speaker 1: have been released here in Australia so far.

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Speaker 3: I think four of ten.

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Speaker 1: I was absolutely enthralled, and it reminded me so much

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Speaker 1: of that time in nineteen ninety three where I had

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Speaker 1: that opportunity. It felt so rich and and I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to continue to watch it. It's done in a

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Speaker 1: very professional way, a very artistic way, and it is

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Speaker 1: such a story.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: The comment was last night that you know there are

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Speaker 1: three towering figures in American sport, Babe Ruth, Muhammad Ali

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Speaker 1: and Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 3: Now you know what more could Lebron James do?

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Speaker 1: But you know, Tom Brady, it depends on where you're

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Speaker 1: you know, where your sort of emphasis lives. But I

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Speaker 1: thought it was a pretty good understanding of where he

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Speaker 1: was at. So yeah, look, I was fascinated by that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to learn a lot from it,

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Speaker 1: the Scotty Pip and stuff. I know he's coming up

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Speaker 1: in the second the second episode, and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: his backstory as well as.

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Speaker 3: I have, so I thought it was superb. So I'm

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Speaker 3: really looking forward to it, And it did remind me

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Speaker 3: so much of that time that I spent.

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Speaker 2: Did you get a sense then when you were with

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Speaker 2: him just how many how many demands are placed on

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Speaker 2: him and how much security there is around him, and

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Speaker 2: just how exclusive it was that you got that access

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Speaker 2: to him, because he barely speaks to anybody. You know,

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Speaker 2: you don't see a lot of Michael Jordan interviews, you know,

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Speaker 2: So for someone from Australia to come over there and

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Speaker 2: get all that exclusive access, I mean, it must have

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Speaker 2: felt pretty amazing for you. Like how did it come about?

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Speaker 1: It was pretty remarkable. I guess it was just like

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Speaker 1: the perfect storm for us. So we started a program.

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Speaker 1: It was a thirteen week series. It was called Seasons.

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Speaker 1: It was nine thirty on a Thursday night, sort of

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Speaker 1: almost prime time stuff free to wear television nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 1: It was like a sixty minutes of sports, a sports

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Speaker 1: illustrated like type. Thing and Nike were our major sponsors

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Speaker 1: in Australia and they were able to get the deal done.

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Speaker 1: So on that trip I went with the producer Stephen Phillips,

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Speaker 1: who's no longer with us, who's a very known producer

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Speaker 1: and on air personality in Australia, and Jordan was the

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Speaker 1: main fair. The other big interview we did on that

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Speaker 1: same trip was Carl Lewis. Now you can imagine how

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Speaker 1: big he was in ninety ninety three, So.

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Speaker 3: It was big stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I did have that sense of privilege, a once

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Speaker 1: in a lifetime opportunity going to Chicago.

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Speaker 3: And I think you're right.

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Speaker 1: You said a moment ago that he was just about

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Speaker 1: in his physical prime. The whole air Jordan Nike relationship

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Speaker 1: had exploded. At that stage. He was the most important

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Speaker 1: athlete sportsperson on the planet. There was not a football

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Speaker 1: that could come near him, not an American footballer either,

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Speaker 1: or a tennis player or whatever. Lewis was probably in

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Speaker 1: the top eight or ten at the time. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Jordan things. So we spent five days, six days

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Speaker 1: in Chicago and that went to two matches at the

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Speaker 1: Old Center, inside the rooms before and after the matches,

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Speaker 1: sat on courtside, went to two training sessions and spent

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Speaker 1: probably about forty five minutes in a one on one

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Speaker 1: within This probably encapsulates him to me a bit. The

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Speaker 1: first night we went to the match and we went

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Speaker 1: into the rooms after the match, you eyes open and

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Speaker 1: can't believe myself. And I walked out and I'm walking

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Speaker 1: with Stephen down the corridor and Jordan comes behind us

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Speaker 1: and he turned and he looked, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't caught his eye before that, and hadn't tried to

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Speaker 1: and he said, I'll talk to you tomorrow, and I thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: that is so cool. Anyway, but he was so confident.

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Speaker 1: Now you know this, We all know. He was so confident.

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Speaker 1: He was so sure of his place, and whilst there

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Speaker 1: were security buzzing around him, and he just understood where

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Speaker 1: he sat. He realized and you know, looking at that

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Speaker 1: documentary last night for the first first time and realizing,

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Speaker 1: you know, I realized, I knew what a career he

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Speaker 1: had at North Carolina. I remember so well about nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four and the impact he had at those Olympic Games.

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Speaker 3: I was there. But yeah, he was a guy that

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Speaker 3: was just proud and just had this aura that was rare,

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Speaker 3: absolutely rare.

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Speaker 1: So what a privilege for me, and what an experience

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Speaker 1: when I look back on it. And this documentary has

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Speaker 1: actually ignited those flames yet again, because sometimes they do

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Speaker 1: dull after thirty years, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was on his best behavior too. With you.

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Speaker 2: I noticed he's been dropping a few he's been swearing

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Speaker 2: a little bit in this documentary. But now you mentioned

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles there in nineteen eighty four, and I'm glad

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Speaker 2: you brought that up because you were there. That was

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Speaker 2: your first Olympics that you actually were in attendance for.

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Speaker 2: I know you covered Moscow in nineteen eighty from the

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Speaker 2: studio in Adelaide. But Jordan had just been drafted at

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Speaker 2: that point and the US went out and they won,

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Speaker 2: but he wasn't I mean, they weren't professionals, weren't allowed

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Speaker 2: to play then. So how different was it and what

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Speaker 2: was the impact the Dream Team had on the entire

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Speaker 2: Olympics experience? Because you know, I remember at the time

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Speaker 2: how excited I was being a basketball fan that the

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Speaker 2: Dream Team would come together. And it couldn't have been

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Speaker 2: a more perfect storm of players, you know, Magic and

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Speaker 2: Larry and Charles and David Robson, you know, just the

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Speaker 2: legends of the game all coming together, and then of

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Speaker 2: course Michael Jordan. I mean, was there a CeNSE around

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Speaker 2: the Olympic village that perhaps these guys are almost taking

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Speaker 2: too much attention away from other athletes who you know,

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Speaker 2: for that two weeks every four years, this is their

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Speaker 2: time to shine. I mean, was the US like almost like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're taking over an event that is usually not for

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Speaker 2: professional athlete or certainly professional basketball players.

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Speaker 1: That was the big discussion. That was the big argument,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it. And from my personal experience and from my observations,

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Speaker 1: it was a big tick. It was a great thing

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Speaker 1: that happened to be in a big game. It took

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Speaker 1: it in one way, if it's possible, to another level.

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Speaker 1: The Olympics' been through some tough times, you know, you

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Speaker 1: think nineteen seventy two, nineteen seventy six, you know, nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, you know, eighty eighty even a smaller boycott,

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Speaker 1: but all the problems in career. So this was like

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Speaker 1: almost like the one thing that it needed in so

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Speaker 1: many ways. And you know, it was interestingly because I

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Speaker 1: was always under the assumption that you know, the Americans,

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Speaker 1: probably because they didn't make the final in nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: their basketball team they've beaten by the Saviets in the

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Speaker 1: semi final, that you know, this was something they really wanted.

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Speaker 1: But that wasn't the case. I mean, they actually voted

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Speaker 1: against us. You know, it was a vote of fifty

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Speaker 1: nine to thirteen from the Basketball World authority of whether

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Speaker 1: or not they would open it up. And that was

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Speaker 1: I think in nineteen eighty nine, and America actually voted

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Speaker 1: against it, but the most of the other countries wanted

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Speaker 1: it to happen because what it meant was that their

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Speaker 1: best players could go and plan the NBA and still

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Speaker 1: be eligible for the Lilypings. Mind getting beaten by the Americans,

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Speaker 1: they wanted to play against the best. So whilst the

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Speaker 1: Americans there was some pushback to keep it as a

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Speaker 1: college event, there was there was an overwhelming sense by

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world we wanted these guys here,

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Speaker 1: And that's the feeling I got in Barcelona. For the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world, we wanted those guys there, And

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Speaker 1: you're right. I mean in nineteen ninety two, if the

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Speaker 1: Dream Team had not been there, then the biggest star

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Speaker 1: would have been Carl Lewis or them for Christie or

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Speaker 1: Alexander pop Off or you know, a swimmer or track

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Speaker 1: and field athlete. And Michael Johnson was starting his career there.

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Speaker 1: He had food poisoning, so it didn't quite work for him.

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Speaker 1: But the biggest stars by far and away were that

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Speaker 1: collective group that you mentioned, And as you said, we've

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Speaker 1: never seen a team quite like a Chuck Dailey had

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Speaker 1: probably the easiest job in the world. But I thought

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Speaker 1: they handled themselves superbly. I mean, Charles was out there,

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Speaker 1: but we all loved that. And you know, Michael and Magic,

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Speaker 1: I mean all those names, all those names, all of

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Speaker 1: them bona fide superstars. But to have Magic and Michael

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Speaker 1: together that made it, that made it so special. It

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Speaker 1: was a remarkable time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think Chuck Daily said he was taking his

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Speaker 2: golf clubs and no suits out there to Barcelona. He

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, we're going to win. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think the final was somewhat close. I think they

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Speaker 2: ended up winning by thirty, but they were It was

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Speaker 2: tight in that first half. But I mean that's the

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Speaker 2: thing when you have all those players and all those

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Speaker 2: stars and they're expected to go out and just annihilate

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Speaker 2: the rest of the competition, and then they do it,

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Speaker 2: you know, playing this glorious basketball. I mean, it was

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Speaker 2: just it was beautiful. It was beautiful to watch and

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Speaker 2: it really did show their dominance. And you know, when

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Speaker 2: you look at Australia, how far Australia has come as

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Speaker 2: a basketballing nation as well. We still haven't meddled at

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Speaker 2: the World Championships or the Olympics that man, we've been close,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you look at guys like we've got

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Speaker 2: now Ben Simmons and Patty Mills, you know, guys who

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Speaker 2: were playing key roles on teams. I mean in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety two, I think we had you know, Andrew Gays,

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Speaker 2: and Luke Longley was there and Vlahov. You know, guys

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Speaker 2: who were good. I mean, Luke Longley was a high

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Speaker 2: draft pick. But these guys now we're seeing and Joe

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Speaker 2: Engles is another one, you know, key players on NBA teams,

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Speaker 2: and I think you know, basketball has been big in Australia,

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Speaker 2: but again, seeing these players on the big stage performing well,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's really good to see that we

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Speaker 2: are able to sort of at least keep up with

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Speaker 2: some of the bigger teams in the world. And I

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Speaker 2: mean we you know, we should have had a couple

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Speaker 2: of medals by now, you know, so hopefully hopefully we

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Speaker 2: can pick one up in Tokyo. Well next year, I

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Speaker 2: guess now. But you know, for me anyway, as a

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Speaker 2: basketball fan, it's great to see the growth of basketball

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Speaker 2: within Australia. And you know, I'm sure you've seen that too.

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Speaker 2: Over those last few Olympics. As Australia gets closer to

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Speaker 2: you know, to medling.

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Speaker 3: Men and women.

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Speaker 1: I mean a women's team has meddled on a number

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Speaker 1: of OCCA in the finals a couple of times and

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Speaker 1: gave the Americans a run for their money. There is

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Speaker 1: an ex there is an expectation here that we have

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Speaker 1: our best chance of getting a middle I mean, we

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Speaker 1: want Simmons to be playing next year, and you know

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Speaker 1: that's always a little doubtful, but we think that will happen.

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Speaker 1: But there is an expectation here this is our best shot,

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Speaker 1: So I'm pleasing you. We all thinking similarly. But and

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Speaker 1: it would be a major event in this country if

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Speaker 1: we were to get to the to the final four,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, at the Olympic Games, and to get

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Speaker 1: that medal that we haven't been able to get, because

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Speaker 1: we've promised it a couple of times. And we're in

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Speaker 1: a more powerful position than we've ever been. Look just

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Speaker 1: locally quickly the NBL went through it was booming, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five years ago, as you will know, and

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Speaker 1: then I went through a really really difficult stage. In

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Speaker 1: the last two or three years, it's been quite phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: The comeback of the National Basketball League here in Australia.

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Speaker 1: So it's been great. It's been great to see and

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Speaker 1: to observe.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because I've through my work, I've met Brett

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Speaker 2: Brown a couple of times and it's funny talking to

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Speaker 2: him because I used to watch him coaching the North

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Speaker 2: Melbourne Giants, you know, with Dave Simmons and Cecil Lexham.

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Speaker 2: And now you know he's obviously coaching Ben Simmons and

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Speaker 2: Dante Exham's in the league. You know, it's kind of

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Speaker 2: mind blowing to see, like these guys who we used

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Speaker 2: to watch, now their kids are playing at a higher

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Speaker 2: level than their fathers achieved in terms of you know,

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Speaker 2: the international basketball there playing for the NBA. But you know,

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Speaker 2: speaking of the Olympics, you know, and you sort of

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Speaker 2: you sort of mentioned it there with Barcelona. Do you

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Speaker 2: feel right now the Olympics has the same appeal that

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Speaker 2: it used to have because again, growing up as a kid,

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Speaker 2: every four years, I remember the build up to Soul

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Speaker 2: and then Barcelona and then of course Atlanta here I

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Speaker 2: couldn't wait for the Olympics. But it feels like the

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Speaker 2: last couple of Olympics hasn't been that big a deal.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what's the atmosphere been like for you being

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Speaker 2: on the ground and around the sports and the athletes,

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Speaker 2: and just if it does have that same appeal that

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Speaker 2: it once had.

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Speaker 3: Rio certainly didn't.

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Speaker 1: You felt like even though I mean I still had

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Speaker 1: a great experience, and you know, you Satin Polton and

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Speaker 1: all the things that I was than Nie Kook and

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Speaker 1: all the things that I was able just to witness

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Speaker 1: and track and field and the other bits and pieces

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Speaker 1: I did there, but you felt like when you were

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Speaker 1: in Rio, you were in a city that was on

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Speaker 1: its knees, that it was a bridge too far. That

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Speaker 1: had the World Cup football two years earlier, Brazil hadn't

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Speaker 1: done what they wanted them to do in that tournament.

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Speaker 1: They were going through an economic downturn like few others,

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Speaker 1: and yet when they had been given the Olympics seven

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Speaker 1: years earlier, they were they were booming. So when we

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Speaker 1: got to Rio, it was a city that was struggling,

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Speaker 1: and you felt like we were almost intruding, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was the haves and they have not. So it

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Speaker 1: was an unsatisfying experience in some ways. And yet the

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Speaker 1: sport was still outstanding. But I've never been at an

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Speaker 1: Olympic stadium in track and field where there were so

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Speaker 1: few people that it was a smaller stadium. It was

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Speaker 1: about forty five fifty thousand capacity and lee it was

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Speaker 1: only a couple of times it was filled. It was

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Speaker 1: quite remarkable because generally those eighty or one hundred thousand stadiums

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Speaker 1: fielded the brim on most nights. But yeah, London was

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Speaker 1: a massive success four years earlier and absolutely look equal

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Speaker 1: to Sydney in two thousand. It's a good question you raised. Look,

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Speaker 1: it might be as simple as this, Lely, and I'm

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Speaker 1: as enthusiastic as probably I've ever been in terms of

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Speaker 1: my personal experience and the way I prepare and the

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Speaker 1: way and the enjoyment I actually get out of calling

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Speaker 1: Ompics the bigger picture about where they sit. I think

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Speaker 1: you've raised an interesting point. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: I think of is this growing up and I'm older

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Speaker 1: than you. I was born in nineteen fifty three. Growing

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Speaker 1: up in Australia, we never got to see a Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: The only real international sport that we saw were the

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Speaker 1: f A Cup final, Wimbledon and the Olympic Games. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Tour de France we only got to see much

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Speaker 1: later than that. American basketball, American football, I sockey, Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball, ep L, you name it all the you know,

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Speaker 1: the Masters and the Majors and golf and tennis. So

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Speaker 1: now we see high class, elite, world level sport every day,

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Speaker 1: every week, not at the moment because of certain circumstances,

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Speaker 1: but for the last twenty years, so that wow factor

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Speaker 1: of the Olympics has been diminished a little because we

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Speaker 1: are spoilt for riches. So I think that's what's happened.

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Speaker 1: I think the level has come up around it, and

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Speaker 1: we're exposed to a lot of things that we weren't

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Speaker 1: exposed to, and that once every four year experience, whilst

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Speaker 1: it still remains integral, is probably not has probably doesn't

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Speaker 1: have the same hole that it had on our nation

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the world.

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Speaker 3: So that's probably the way I look at it. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: do you think.

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Speaker 2: The controversy surrounding the bidding process, and you know, you

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Speaker 2: mentioned Rio there, like every city seems to just be

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Speaker 2: financially bankrupt for you know, decades in some cases after

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Speaker 2: the Olympics that you know, and they've already announced, like

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Speaker 2: the games are coming to Los Angeles in twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 2: But it seems like less cities are sort of looking

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Speaker 2: at it now to even host because you know, you

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Speaker 2: hear about it, it costing billions, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: a week after the Olympics have gone those a lot

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Speaker 2: of those arenas are just you know, they're they're left

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Speaker 2: to rot. I know, you know Athens is an example

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Speaker 2: of that, where you know, they build all these arenas

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Speaker 2: for baseball and things like that that are just not sports.

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Speaker 2: They play out there and then they leave and then

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Speaker 2: the city's just got to pick up the tab. I mean,

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Speaker 2: do you think that has any factor at all that

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Speaker 2: cities you know, they're not craving for it anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's a complex question that you're asking me. I'll go

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Speaker 1: back quickly nineteen eighty four. The first one I attended

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Speaker 1: is you said that changed it forever because Peter Yuberov

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Speaker 1: was in charge of those Olympics and commercialized them.

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Speaker 3: We had the McDonald's swimming pool.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the International Olympic Committee allowed things with advertising

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Speaker 1: at venues that they're never allowed before.

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Speaker 3: I mean Moscow, they bankrolled it. Obviously.

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Speaker 1: The Soviets Montreal went broken seventy six Munich. Well, they

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Speaker 1: had the mass, which was devastating. But in eighty four

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Speaker 1: Peter Yuberov and Los Angeles changed the whole sort of concept.

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Speaker 1: But not every country picked it up. I mean, Soul

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Speaker 1: was state run, Barcelona pretty much went broke, beautiful stadium,

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Speaker 1: Atlanta had lots of other problems, but Coca Cola sort

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Speaker 1: of bankrolled and a bit and other things, and NBC.

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Speaker 3: Obviously heavily involved. Sydney it worked very well.

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Speaker 1: Athens have said on and on de Beijing in that

437
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: but you are right in that way. But what I

438
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: think the International Olympic Committee has understood is we've got

439
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: a problem. We've got a problem with corruption within our

440
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: own organization. We've got a problem with the perception of

441
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: who we are and what we do. And we've all

442
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: got a problem with Sydney's going bankrupt. And when I

443
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: started to first do those Olympic Games, there'd be eight

444
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,959
Speaker 1: or nine cities bidding like crazy. And when I went

445
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: to Monico in nineteen ninety three, the same year that

446
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: I did the Jordan in Liby not long after that,

447
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: and was there for the announcement of Sydney getting the Olympics,

448
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: and that was a final field of fire, I think

449
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: at the time, and they've been wilted down from about

450
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: nine no longer is out the case. And what the

451
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: International Olympic Committee have done for the very first time,

452
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 1: instead of seven years out, which has always been the

453
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: model of the modern area era, they've now pushed, as

454
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: you say, twenty four and twenty eight. So what they

455
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: did with Paris and Los Angeles basically they got down

456
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: to two cities after Tokyo, which and these were the

457
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: only the two cities that they thought were viable. So

458
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 1: they went to those cities and said, gin, know what,

459
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,479
Speaker 1: let's not bid Paris against Los Angeles because someone's going

460
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: to be a loser and we might not get them

461
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty eight. So what they did they

462
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: went to the two and said, well, Paris should have

463
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: twenty four because it's one hundredth anniversary, the centenary anniversary

464
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: of their second Olympics in nineteen twenty four, So that

465
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: makes sense. So why don't you Paris have twenty twenty

466
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: four in LA it'll be your third games as well,

467
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: you have twenty twenty eight. Now Brisbane is a big

468
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: chance of getting twenty thirty two, and I think we'll

469
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: know that in the next one or next year or two.

470
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: So they have changed their model. But oh right, crux

471
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: of your the crux of your question was is that

472
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: a turnoff for the viewer? Is that a turnoff for

473
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: the public that all these you know, the salts like

474
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: city corruptions and all those things. I don't think so

475
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: necessarily because does the National Footballer in America ever have controversy?

476
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: Do they ever have bad stories to the NBA? Sure

477
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 1: they do, and so do I feel here it just

478
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: fuels the fire. So I think those talking.

479
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: Points that make fans so mad and so rapable actually

480
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: at night rather than dows a flame.

481
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: So I don't think that is the case with the Olympics.

482
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: But I do think with the Olympics, what is the

483
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 1: case is there's a lot more opposition in terms of

484
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: big time sport than there was in the past. But

485
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: I do think the IOC they're slow learners, but I

486
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: think they are starting to. I think they're starting to

487
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: get it.

488
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, like I live in

489
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: Atlanta now, and you know, you see reminders around the

490
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: city of where, you know, the Olympics were here in

491
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, and I sometimes think I don't even

492
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 2: know how this city was able to host the Olympics,

493
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: Like traffic is a nightmare here. You know, it's not

494
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: even that big a city, really downtown. But you know,

495
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: I guess they pulled it off. The US always seems

496
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: to be able to find the infrastructure and the resources

497
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: to get it done. But I want to take you

498
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty eight because this was an incredible moment

499
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: and I know you called this race and it was

500
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: one of you know, the most anticipated races in history,

501
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: and it was obviously the one hundred meter men's final there,

502
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: you know, Carl Lewis of the Glory Child in nineteen

503
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: eighty four, but then Ben Johnson was coming out of

504
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: nowhere and he was clearly, you know, a big rival

505
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: to Carl Lewis, and Lewis didn't think he could beat him.

506
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: And you know what's really interesting about this because I

507
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 2: watched it over again your actual call of the race,

508
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: and after the race, you know, you said, great race,

509
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: set the record, and then you say afterwards, if it's legal,

510
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: and it was almost like in your voice you sensed

511
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: that perhaps, you know, we let's not get too excited

512
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: because he's just blitzed Carl Lewis, he's won the world

513
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: record here. You know, he had that triumphant celebration Ben

514
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: Johnson as he crossed the line, the finger in the air.

515
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: But knowing what we know now and it's obviously twenty

516
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: twenty with hindsight, listening to the to the sort of

517
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 2: tone of your voice, it sounded to me like you

518
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: almost weren't convinced that it was clean.

519
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 3: Is that?

520
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: Is that a fair thing to say?

521
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: It is, but it's not that comment, and thank you

522
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: for giving me, giving me that cutos what I don't

523
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: deserve it. But this is what happened. When I meant legal,

524
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,239
Speaker 1: it was the wind. So the world record he ran

525
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: nine point he run nine point seven nine. I think

526
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: the world record was nine point a three that he

527
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: that he'd run in Rome the year before. But when

528
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: I said if it's legal, it was whether the wind,

529
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: you know, two meters behind him, whether or not that

530
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: was inside that mark.

531
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 3: But then as he did his Lap of honor.

532
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: Now my memory I remember thinking out loud and saying

533
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: out loud, it's fascinating what's happen under Johnson in the

534
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: last two or three weeks, because what happened le Ben

535
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: Bennett finished third in nineteen eighty four. Ben was a

536
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: world class athlete, but in nineteen eighty six he really

537
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: took off. But in eighty seventy he exploded, basically, and

538
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: he beat Lewis in a remarkable final the World Championships

539
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: in Rome, and that was really the setting for what

540
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: was going to take place the next year.

541
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 3: And they had this incredible rivalry.

542
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: They didn't like each other genuinely, there was no put

543
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: on and as you say, they were big bad Ben

544
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: and the glory child Carl, who did rub people up

545
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: the wrong way in his own way, but was the

546
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: golden boy from Los Angeles. But Johnson started nineteen eighty

547
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: eight in a blaze of glory. But he got beaten

548
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: twice just before the Olympics, once in Cologne and once

549
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: in Zurich for memory.

550
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: And then he went back to Canada. And my.

551
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: Heart and gut was telling me that things were happening

552
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: that shouldn't have been happening. And so that's what I

553
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: was surmising when he was doing his Lap of honor.

554
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: Not sure what's happened in the last couple of weeks

555
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: going back to Canada, but there was a different Ben

556
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: Johnson today because going into that race, you're going into

557
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: that race. He full started in the semi final and

558
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: he looked like he might actually be disqualified. If you

559
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: have a full start, now you're out. But you could

560
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: used to have two them.

561
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,479
Speaker 3: But look, there was a feeling that Lewis was favorite

562
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 3: when they went to the blocks on that day and

563
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: Ben blew him away so much so that Cale basically

564
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 3: ran out of his lane and was lucky not to

565
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: be disqualified himself. But but and then the aftermath was

566
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: the most shocking thing.

567
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: It was the biggest It was the biggest race I

568
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: believe in Olympic history, and I think you summed it

569
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: up perfectly.

570
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: There was nothing quite like it. It was.

571
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: It was, you know, Muhammad Ali versus Joe Frazier was

572
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: it was, you know, the big matchup that we always

573
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: want to see, Messi versus Ronaldo, whatever it might be.

574
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: And it was a once in a lifetime situation, and

575
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: you know, it was an incredible race. And then of

576
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: course the aftermath was even more shocking. We thought then

577
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: that maybe this would be the turning point, maybe they

578
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: have an inquiry in Canada would change everything, but unfortunately

579
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: was still having the same problem, aren't we.

580
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny with Ben Johnson when I lived in

581
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: Toronto for a while and I was actually a producer

582
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: for an interview with him, and it was basically on

583
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: the Olympics and athletics, and he was really he was

584
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: really disappointed with Canadian sort of politics and the athletics

585
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: chiefs because he was like, they knew what I was doing,

586
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: and then once I got caught, they just abandoned me

587
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 2: and basically said it was all him and he had

588
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: nothing to do with it. And he, you know, you

589
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: could sort of tell in his voice that he was like,

590
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 2: they just like left me out to dry, and you know,

591
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: he's the guy who's the bad boy, whereas basically everyone

592
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 2: in that race ended up being caught for doing some

593
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: sort of drug or some sort of performance enhancer. So

594
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: it's crazy when you look back to see just out.

595
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we know with Carl Lewis, I mean, he

596
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: certainly had his issues that even in Los Angeles. You know,

597
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: he was lucky to even be competing because it was

598
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: the US Olympic team I think sort of cleared him,

599
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: you know, under sort of suspicious circumstances. But again, back then. Well,

600
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: I say back then, but you're right, I mean things

601
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: still now, I mean still people are using performs enhancing

602
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: drugs all the time, so it's crazy. But you know,

603
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: I would love to have been in Seoul on that

604
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: a couple of days life think was the Tuesday? Was

605
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: it when he came out and it was the positive

606
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: drug test and he was stripped of his gold and

607
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: he left straight away and just in disgrace.

608
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: Look it was. It was just the most remarkable few days.

609
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: It really was.

610
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: Flo Jo of course was doing incredible things. Floran s

611
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: Griffith joinnas she broke the world record twice on the

612
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: within two hours and the two hundred meters. But yeah,

613
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: it was on the Tuesday morning, and the International Olympic

614
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: Committee made a.

615
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: Big mistake when that announcement happened.

616
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: They should have represented the medals and Lewis should have

617
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: got the gold medal.

618
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: Now, I know what you said.

619
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: Is a fact about the fact that most of those

620
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: athletes have been tainted in one way or another, but

621
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: they should have re presented those medals and first thing

622
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: and the third should have been taken into the main.

623
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 3: Stadium and given those medals. I believe but they they

624
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: didn't and and we moved on. But it was it

625
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: was a remarkable few days in the history of Olympic

626
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: sprinting and the Olympic Games in general. And of course

627
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: you know that was four years before what we started

628
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 3: talking about there. Yeah, the Dream Team and their arrival

629
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 3: which changed things again.

630
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we know that Paris and Los Angeles

631
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: are coming up just before we move on from the Olympics.

632
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: Is there a city that you would love to see

633
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: host the Games?

634
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 1: That's a good question, and it's it's a fine balance

635
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: between what's the best type of city?

636
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 3: Is it? You know, is that the London's?

637
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: Is it?

638
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: The is it the the Tokyo's, Paris?

639
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: They've all had the those major cities. Look New York

640
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: now you're going to laugh a bit. You know, what

641
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 1: are the great cities of the world? Well, that's number one.

642
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: I would have thought, so in answer question, probably New York.

643
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: Now can't the infrastructure and the problems they might have

644
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: because there's an irony, isn't it. The bigger the city

645
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: almost the more difficult it is to host the biggest event.

646
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: But I'd say New York if it were possible, and

647
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: the downsizing in some ways of the games and in

648
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: terms of what you have to build these days, and

649
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: you know you can use facilities you've already got, So

650
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: I would have thought that would be the one that

651
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: I would love to see hosted in my lifetime.

652
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I think they've got the infrastructure as

653
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: far as the arenas and stadiums ready, but getting around

654
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: would just be an absolute nightmare. I think. I mean

655
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: that the city struggles already just with you know, just

656
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: with the people who live there, so if you bring

657
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: in another, i don't know, a couple hundred thousand athletes

658
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: and supporters and fans and teams like it could just

659
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: be a complete disaster. But you're right, I mean, it's

660
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: you know, New York is one of those cities that

661
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: it's never bad to visit. Everyone loves going to New York.

662
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: You have a great time there. But you know, they

663
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: could they could pull it off, I'm sure, but yeah,

664
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be without a few headaches alone on the way.

665
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: The Black Tux believes every groop deserves a better experience

666
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,200
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667
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,360
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668
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669
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,360
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670
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,000
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671
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673
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674
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675
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676
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677
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679
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680
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681
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682
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684
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686
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687
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691
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692
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693
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694
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695
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: Tucks formal wear. For the moment, Moving on from the Olympics,

696
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: I want to take you now a little closer to

697
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: home to Ouzzi Rules. Now. We sort of talked about

698
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: it there off the top. Obviously this season is on

699
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: hold for now. You know you started calling in the

700
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: mid or late eighties. I guess Ozzie rules football. And

701
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: do you have any idea how many games of Ouzzi

702
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: Rules football you've called?

703
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: Leo? Don't you know?

704
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: If I put my mind till i'd maybe come up

705
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: with an approximation.

706
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: But I know I don't.

707
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: I don't keep slats on myself and I and so

708
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: I look, I started so thirty years ago basically doing

709
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: the AFL. I've done some football in South Australia before that,

710
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: before I went and lived in Melbourne for a decade

711
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,959
Speaker 1: and a half and before we came back to South

712
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: Australia and then we didn't have we didn't have football

713
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: the network I worked for for five years in the

714
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: early part of the twenty first century. So you know,

715
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: I guess I've been calling for about twenty five twenty

716
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: six years. You know, i'd probably do thirty to thirty five.

717
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:45,959
Speaker 3: Matches a year.

718
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: Used to do a bit more than that, so you know,

719
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: you could, I guess we could work it out that way,

720
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: but you know it's quite a few hundred, I.

721
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: Guess, yeah, yeah, it's it is incredible again. I mean,

722
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 2: like I said, I remember from being a teenager listening

723
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: and I know you still do it now. I saw

724
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: you there last year, of course, at the MCG on

725
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: a Friday night. You know, we sort of touched on

726
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: a little bit earlier as well. You know, when I

727
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: was a kid growing up, we didn't have the access

728
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: to these international sports, and I think Australian rules football

729
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 2: benefited from that because you know, you knew that other

730
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: players in other sports earn more money, but they weren't

731
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: really Australians doing that. Now that we see, you know,

732
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: a Ben Simmons earning you know, one hundred and fifty

733
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 2: million dollars a year playing or not a year, but

734
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: over his contract playing basketball. You know, is AFL going

735
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: to face competition soon where they're like, you know, kids

736
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: are going to grow up and saying, well, I can

737
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: make you know one or two million Australian dollars here

738
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: playing Aussie Rules football, or I can make you know,

739
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: potentially one hundred and you know two hundred million playing

740
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: basketball or even soccer or baseball or something like that.

741
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: I mean, is that a problem that the AFL is

742
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: looking at right now and trying to figure out a

743
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 2: way to make sure that you know, kids still grow

744
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,959
Speaker 2: up wanting to play our national game.

745
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: It's a it's a challenge, but.

746
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: Lee what it gets to I think is this, I mean,

747
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: what are young men and women exposed to on television

748
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: in a wider sense. At the moment, it's still Aussie

749
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: Rules or rugby league or whatever. So I think it's

750
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: still the aspiration of most Australians who play the national

751
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: game rather than the international, and not all of them.

752
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 3: But I don't think there'll ever.

753
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: Be a lack of young men and women that want

754
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: to play Ossie Rules because on a Friday night, you know,

755
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: it's the highest ratings of the week, and on a

756
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: Saturday night something similar. It's like your Monday night football

757
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: or Saturday night or Sunday night football.

758
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 3: Now, so.

759
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: It's become more of a challenge, and there are a

760
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: lot of the studians that are doing great things in

761
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: lots of sports overseas. But I still feel there are

762
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: a huge number of young Australians that want to play

763
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: the national game and will continue to play it because

764
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: our game is getting bigger as well, and everything is relative,

765
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: and you know our players, our top players here earn

766
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: between about one million and one and a half million,

767
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: so maybe a little bit more than that, and most

768
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: of the top Ossie Rules players are getting between say

769
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: six hundred thousand and one and a half million dollars.

770
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: Now it's small fair compared with the big American sports

771
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: and the big football players around the world, but in

772
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: terms of what other people in this country are earning

773
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: in other sports, and it's a pretty big deal. So

774
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: a challenge, but not one that I think will be

775
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: overwhelming and not one that I think will decrease the

776
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: value of the competition and the interest in the competition.

777
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 2: Okay, well, speaking of challenges, that's great because that's a

778
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 2: great segue into this next little segment I've got here.

779
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: It's a game we play with all our guests and

780
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: it's called what You Got Now. What I'm going to

781
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: do is I'm going to present two sort of cases

782
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: to you and you have to pick which one out

783
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: of these two, you know, you think is the best.

784
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 2: I've got five categories here, and they should be tough

785
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: for I'm hoping they're going to be tough for you,

786
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: so you're going to really have to, you know, really

787
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: have to put your money on one of these horses here. Okay, yeah, okay,

788
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 2: So we're going we're staying with the Olympics now. It's

789
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 2: the best individual Australian performance, not including Kathy Freeman, because

790
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: I thought of when I was doing research for this,

791
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: I thought, I don't really think any Australian performance is

792
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: going to beat Kathy in Sydney, So I'm going with

793
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: the next best that I thought that I thought, you'll

794
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: choose out of these two Ian Thorpe's two hundred meters

795
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: the Race of the Century in Athens two thousand and

796
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: four or Karen Perkins fifteen hundred meters in Atlanta where

797
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: he was in Lanee, not in Barcelona in ninety two

798
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: where he was pretty dominant. In Atlanta, where you know

799
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: he was he was up against that. So out of

800
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: Ian Thorpe and Karen Perkins, which one do you think

801
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 2: is a you know, sort of bigger performance.

802
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to go against the odds there, and I'm

803
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: going to go even though the Perkins one is a

804
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: bigger event in this country, and look it's one of

805
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: the iconic events within I mean, Thorpe's is rated just

806
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: as hardy, if not above it. But I'm going to

807
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: go with Thorpe. You know, we beat Ben and hoogar Band,

808
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: Phelps Hackett, amongst others.

809
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 3: Keller, I think, But I'm going to go with Thorpe.

810
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: As you say, it was about as good a race

811
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: as you could ever get.

812
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was amazing. Again, when I was

813
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 2: researching this, I was just watching those over and I

814
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: found myself just you know, going down all these rabbit

815
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: holes of Australian swimming performance at the Olympics, and you know,

816
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 2: the Perkins one in Barcelona was great, But then I thought,

817
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: I think, I think the one in Atlanta is better

818
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 2: just because again it was against the odds, so you

819
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: know it was. It was a great performance, Okay, best

820
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: individual performance at the Olympics, non non Australian bracket this

821
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: time Usain Bolt one hundred meters in Beijing versus Michael

822
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: Johnson two hundred meters here in Atlanta.

823
00:39:49,760 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 3: Oh, that's that's a ridiculous question that they They both

824
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 3: were just wow, both of them.

825
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: I think at the time with Michael Johnson you said

826
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: it was the best performance you had ever seen, but

827
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: of course that was nineteen ninety six versus two thousand

828
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: and eight.

829
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: But it was be manesque, you know, it was bee

830
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: manesque Johnson, you know. But I'm going to say Bolt

831
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: because he hadn't been ranked in the top he hadn't

832
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: been ranked in the top ten hundred meter runners the

833
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: year before. It had come from nowhere and what he

834
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: did in the last ten minutes that race was extraordinary.

835
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: It was also the birth of the Muhammad Ali of

836
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: track and field, so I think in some ways it

837
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: was the beginning of I think the richest story in

838
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: athletics history, and that's the USA Bolt story. So it's

839
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: so close and so tight, as was Thorpe and Perkins,

840
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: but I'll say Bolt.

841
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. The thing with Bolt, I believe it was Beijing.

842
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: He kind of is almost pulling up too at the end,

843
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 2: like I would love it if the world record I feel, yeah,

844
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: I feel the world record for the one hundred meters,

845
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: particularly the men's one hundred meters, it should always be

846
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: an Olympic world record. And I mean, you know, it's

847
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: possible that no one will beat what he did in Berlin,

848
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, and that'll be the world record in the

849
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: one hundred meters. And it's sort of for me, I'm like,

850
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: I just would always like it to be at the Olympics.

851
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: It's just something that feels to me like that's where

852
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: the world record belongs.

853
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: You know, I do get what you mean. But not

854
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: many world records are said at the Olympics. No, they're

855
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: hard to get, and particularly in middle distance and distance

856
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: races because the lack of pacemakers and the marathons because

857
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: it's always hot, whereas you know, the marathons are now

858
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: usually in Berlin or somewhere like that where the temperatures

859
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: are conducive to it.

860
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: So look, yeah, Bolt around nine sixty nine and then

861
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: he run nine to fifty eight. The next year, of.

862
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: Course in the two hundred meters he you know, he

863
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: did something very similar, but nineteen thirty and nineteen nineteen.

864
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: But you look such a difficult good question, But as

865
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: was Perkins, and I feel sorry that I didn't think

866
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: here in the way, but I'm going to stay with

867
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: Thorpe and Volk going.

868
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, great, Well, this one's a little closer to home.

869
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: It's Australian rules football best ever Norm Smith metal performance.

870
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 2: I've got Andrew McLeod in nineteen ninety seven versus and

871
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: Kilda or Michael Long nineteen ninety three versus Carlton. There

872
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 2: was a ton I could have chosen from here, but

873
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: I picked two that I thought again that that are

874
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: pretty hard to split.

875
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: To the great indigenous players, I'm going to say Michael Long.

876
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: I mean McLeod won two of them. Actually ninety seven

877
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: and ninety eight. Ninety seven was a superior performance to

878
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: ninety eight, but I'm going to say Long, and part

879
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: of it was the whole sort of September for Michael

880
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: Long and that long run, you know, to the city

881
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: end of the ground. But ah, as you say, you

882
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: could have thrown you could have thrown a few more.

883
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 1: Now I'll go with Michael Long, right, so keep going.

884
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: These these are going to give me nightmares.

885
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there were so many I could have chosen

886
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: out of that, and I thought, well, I just I

887
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: thought because the thing with Andrew McLeod. For me, again,

888
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: the Crows were not the favorite going in there against

889
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: and Kilda, were down at halftime and it looked it

890
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: just sort of felt like the Crows weren't going to

891
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 2: win it that year. They had that such an emotional

892
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: victory against the Doggies the week before, you thought maybe

893
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: that was their Grand Final. But then in that second

894
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: half McLeod just he was just unbelievable and easily one

895
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: of my top three or four Aussie Rules players I've

896
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: ever seen. I mean, he was great. It's funny, you know,

897
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: talk about Michael Long again. When I was going down

898
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: this rabbit hole, it brought up a game actually not

899
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: a good game for Long. He injured his knee against Geelong.

900
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: It was that Centennial game in ninety six. But also

901
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,479
Speaker 2: in that game, Darren Bweck came back from a knee

902
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: injury and kicked nine goals and it was just one

903
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 2: of those typical Darren Buick, electrifying games where every single

904
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: goal he celebrates as if he's just kicked the winning

905
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: goal in the Grand Final. And you were on that

906
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: call with Malcolm Bly. Do you remember much about that one?

907
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 3: Vaguely?

908
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: I mean you're reminding of your stuff to you know,

909
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: long long ago, down a rabbit hole that I never

910
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: looked into, to be truthful, But remember the way Buick

911
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: would celebrate and the type of player he was, And

912
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: now that you're reminded of Michael Long and of course

913
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: you mentioned Malcolm Bly, who was the coach for Andrew

914
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: McLeod in those those two premierships.

915
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, no, they're great memories.

916
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And part of the reason maybe I've gone for

917
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: long is just the the influence that he's had on

918
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: on on on a whole generation of Indigenous players.

919
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: Now Andrew's doing great work as well.

920
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they've both done some incredible things for their

921
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: for their for their people, and we applaud them for

922
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: what they're doing off the field as much as, if

923
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: not more than what they did on the field. And

924
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: those you know, those those glory days for them in

925
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: the nineties and in two thousands for Andrew.

926
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, two more. Now these ones, I'm bringing it

927
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 2: back to where it all began for you on the racetrack. Okay.

928
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: And so these last two are both horse races. The

929
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 2: first one is the best Melbourne Cup winner of all time.

930
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: Now I'm taking mackaybe Dever out of this because I

931
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: think she would probably win. So I'm going to present

932
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: too too. And one of them is is is I

933
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: have got a fond memory of because it was the

934
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: first time we ever backed a Melbourne Cup win. It

935
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 2: was Empire Rose in nineteen eighty eight versus Might and

936
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: Power in nineteen ninety seven. Empire Rose, I don't know

937
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 2: if you remember, she came over won the McKinnon. She

938
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 2: became I think favorite for the for the Melbourne Cup

939
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 2: a couple of days later, and she was so big

940
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: that she finished the race. She won the race, but Natsky,

941
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: who came second, actually crossed the line in totality first

942
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 2: before Empire Empire Rose actually finished. So Empire Rose versus

943
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 2: mightin Power nineteen eighty eight versus nineteen ninety seven.

944
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: I bet both those winners, and I don't bet too

945
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: many winners of the Melbourne Cup, and I actually I

946
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: feel near and dear to ros because that was the

947
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: last Melbourne Cup.

948
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: I called and I.

949
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: Had her winning the race in a photo and as

950
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: you say, it was tight, and I had a couple

951
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: of moments there where I was really hanging on for

952
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: dear life, hoping I got it right, because that's the

953
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: one thing you don't want to get wrong, was a

954
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: photo finish in a Melbourne Cup. Look, they were both

955
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: great finishers, might and Power just holding off Dreamas and

956
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: the jockey of Darres thought.

957
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 3: He had won.

958
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: He put his whip in the air. He had been

959
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: a winner two years earlier. But great horses, both of

960
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: them Raise I think ran in.

961
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 3: Four Melbourne Cuts and that was the third one. I'm

962
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 3: going to go with might and Power. That was a

963
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: remarkable win. He led all the way.

964
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: He was taken on a couple of occasions mid race

965
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: where horses went up and tried to take the lead

966
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: off him and he refused to yield, and then in

967
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: the straight he kicked away and then held on and

968
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: won by the narrowest of majors. So might and power

969
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: for me, but boy, it be tough for going.

970
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: Would you pick my kaybe diver over at might in

971
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: Power if it was if that was in the case.

972
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: Well, singular performance maybe not, but her body of work definitely.

973
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,479
Speaker 1: You know, the only horse to have won the race

974
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: on three occasions, so you know, four others have won

975
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: her twice in one hundred and sixty years and she

976
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: won it three times, so that's pretty pretty remarkable.

977
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: Okay, the last one here. I've got to set the

978
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: scene for this one because this one's going to be

979
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: a big one and I think, you know, to finish

980
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 2: on this one is appropriate. So it's a Saturday afternoon

981
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 2: of fleming to a beautiful day, a good track. This

982
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: race is fourteen hundred meters or seven furlongs, but it's

983
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: only a two horse race. It's kind of like, do

984
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: you remember better loosen up versus let's to open the

985
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: super Challenge. They raced against each other I think nineteen

986
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: ninety one maybe or ninety two, but these horse would yep, yeah, okay,

987
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: these two horses. So this is a this is a

988
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'm just making this race up, so you

989
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 2: have to tell me who he thinks when it's black

990
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: caviar versus winks And I spoke to a friend of mine.

991
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 2: We've got Luton Nolan on board. Black Caviar and Hugh

992
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 2: Bowman on board Winks. And I spoke to a friend

993
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: of mine who likes a punt, and I said, just

994
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: set me give me some odds for a race like this,

995
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 2: and he said, wow, you know the distance here probably

996
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: favors Black Caviar more than Winks. She was a sprinter

997
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: where his Winks liked it a little bit longer. So

998
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: he put Black Caviar at a dollar seventy and Winks

999
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: at two twenty. Going into this race. Now, you can

1000
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: give me an answer if you want, or you can

1001
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: even just leave it up to the gods and even

1002
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: call the last furlong if you want. It's up to

1003
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 2: you to just see who would win.

1004
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 3: Out look, I'll give you an answer.

1005
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: I probably should try to call it, but I've got

1006
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: our dog, Frankie's about five minutes a one, and she

1007
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: hears me calling, she's going to bark her head off.

1008
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: So I reckon your friend's a good judge, whoever that

1009
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: friend is. She only raced once over fourteen hundred meters

1010
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: black Caveat, and she trotted in, so all her other

1011
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: races were over a thousand, eleven hundred or twelve hundred, so.

1012
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 3: Five longs or six longs in your language.

1013
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: But and Winks was probably at their absolute best between

1014
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: eight phearlongs and ten for longs cheer, it would be

1015
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: a bob of the head. And I'm going to pick Winks.

1016
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to take the two dollars twenty. I'm going

1017
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: to think that she can get into the slipstream of

1018
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: Black caveat some stage in the straight and she can

1019
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: just just get over the top of her It would

1020
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: be the most remarkable thing to witness.

1021
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 3: So yeah, there you go.

1022
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well, that's that's great. I mean again, when

1023
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 2: I was, when I was sort of putting all this together,

1024
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, obviously Olympics and athletics and OSI

1025
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: RULs football, But again, I know, you know where you

1026
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 2: started there in Adelaide. I read that you know you

1027
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: were you were basically you didn't have a job, and

1028
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: you sort of found your way into helping out with

1029
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 2: the sports and then that got you into horse racing,

1030
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: which led to an opportunity with Channel seven in Adelaide.

1031
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 2: I believe, and I mean, you know, the rest is

1032
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: history when you when you look back at everything you've

1033
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: achieved and accomplished, and speaking to some of these athletes.

1034
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's a dream. I mean, it really

1035
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: is a dream for so many kids growing up. To

1036
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 2: actually live it, I think it must feel pretty special

1037
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: for you to look back on all that now.

1038
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: It does lee and it's something that I reflect on occasionally,

1039
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: particularly when I'm doing something like this. But like everybody also,

1040
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm sort of still looking for the next challenge. I've

1041
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: got six hour telecasts tomorrow, which has got to be

1042
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: very different where involved in a something we've never tried before,

1043
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: two different programs networks covering the one event, and I've

1044
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: got to go between.

1045
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 3: The two of them.

1046
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: So I'm sixty seven years of age, almost sixty six.

1047
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: I guess what all I'm saying to you is, it's

1048
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: a great thing to do to reflect. I'm still thinking

1049
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: present and future, and I am looking forward to the

1050
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: day where I guess I can look back and say, well,

1051
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: I did my best and I've been very fortunate. I mean,

1052
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: my whole career has been about opportunity, and I hope

1053
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: I've risen to the occasion.

1054
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 3: I know I haven't always.

1055
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: I know I've done my best most of the time,

1056
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: and that's been the challenge for me. But my whole

1057
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: career has been about opportunity. I've been fortunate.

1058
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but well, I mean, you know, I think we

1059
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 2: all look back and you know, we have moments that

1060
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 2: we think about and think, damn, I you know, screwed

1061
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 2: up that day or I did this wrong. But again, overall,

1062
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: I mean, when it comes through anything Australian, you know,

1063
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: people recognize your voice and they know immediately that you've

1064
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: done the research, You've done the work and you know

1065
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, and that, to me, I think

1066
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: is just what's also, you know, you respect so much

1067
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: because you want to be at that level of professionalism

1068
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 2: across several sports. Not many people can do that. You know,

1069
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,439
Speaker 2: there are a few guys around the world. I don't

1070
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 2: know if I'm sure you've probably met Bob Costas at

1071
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: some point, you know who when when I was telling

1072
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: the guys who I was interviewing you, I said, you know,

1073
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: Bob Costas is a good reference because he's kind of

1074
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 2: done every sport here for America for NBC. He's not

1075
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 2: not with NBC anymore, but you know, he just has

1076
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: that professionalism that you trust him, that he knows what

1077
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: he's talking about. And I think you know, for you,

1078
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: I feel the same way about that, you know, and

1079
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 2: any time I've heard your voice, you know, calling a

1080
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 2: sport over the years, it's like, well, Bruce is righting.

1081
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: I know that he's done the research. I know he's

1082
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 2: ready to go. So, you know, I think that's that's

1083
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: really something that several people look up to and admire

1084
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: about you.

1085
00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: Well, LEAs, thank you.

1086
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: Look, I've had the pleasure of meeting Bob on a

1087
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: number of occasions, got to know him pretty well, and

1088
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: that was mainly surrounding the two thousand Olympics when they

1089
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Sydney and Dick Ebersol

1090
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: was the head of NBC Sport at the time, and no,

1091
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: Bob a gentleman, and I had a chance to go

1092
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: into the NBC studios when he was hosting a Sunday

1093
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: night match when NBC got the NFL back quite a

1094
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 1: few years ago now. But you know, he's a brilliant commentator, broadcaster, analyst,

1095
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: and as you say, he's so trustworthy and you always

1096
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: felt like the Olympics were in good hands when Costas

1097
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: was hosting or making a statement or having an opinion,

1098
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: and NBC were well served for many, many years.

1099
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: Well, Bruce, thank you so much for your time tonight.

1100
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: It's been fantastic chatting to you. And I hope, I

1101
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: hope we get to hear you calling the footy sooner.

1102
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously Tokyo has been postponed for now. I

1103
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 2: hope it's I hope we get Tokyo next year, but

1104
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: who knows. At this point things are a little bit crazy.

1105
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: But you know, again, I look forward to hearing you

1106
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: again calling the footy or athletics or whatever it may be.

1107
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: And uh and again, thank you for your time.

1108
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 3: Pleasurely, it's been it's been a great trip down memory lane.

1109
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 3: Thank you. You could stay every day and and you

1110
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 3: happy every minute. It's been so long that your the

1111
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 3: mona ways for.

1112
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: It's happened already.

1113
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 3: It's gonna be Grevy