1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello sunshine. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 2: Today on the bright side, we're getting advice and lessons 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 2: on love and friendship from one of the UK's smartest 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: and most popular writers. Author and advice columnist Dolly Alderton 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: is here. It's Tuesday, June twenty fifth. I'm Danielle Robe. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 3: And I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright side 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 3: from Hello Sunshine, Simone. 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: For almost ten years now, Dolly Alderton has been helping 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: people tackle life and love's messes with her witty, sexy 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: and just very heart filled advice column, Dear Dolly. It 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: publishes weekly in Britain's The Sunday Times newspaper. 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: She's literally been called a real life Bridge Jones and 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 3: Carrie Bradshaw and I couldn't help but wonder what's it 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 3: like to get paid to write an advice column that 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 3: everyone wants to read. That's my best carry Bradshaw, Danielle. 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: I love that well. 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: Dolly took her advice game a step further when she 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 2: wrote her twenty eighteen memoir titled Everything I Know About Love, 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: and It details her journey through dating and romance and 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: just life. The book became a smash hit, and it 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: even got adapted for TV by the BBC and it's 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: streaming right now on Peacock if you want to watch. 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 3: And she's keeping the love lessons coming with her latest book, 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 3: Good Material. Danielle, you know what's interesting about this book. 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: It's about a really tough breakup, but from a male 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: perspective and fun fact. To prepare for this book, Dolly 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 3: conducted over twenty hours of interviews with men, men that 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 3: she knew friends of friends about their breakup experiences. 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: Men should be talking about their breakups more. They have 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: feelings too. 31 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: But you know, Dolly's a journalist, a podcast host, an 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: author and truly a lady of love. She's written about 33 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: love and relationships for publications like The Telegraph, Glamour, GQ, 34 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: the list goes on. 35 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 3: And vice columnist or Agony Aunt, as the British call it. 36 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: She's truly unmatched. I mean she had me breaking out 37 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 3: the highlighter over and over again. This woman is a 38 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: walking poll quote and she's here with us now. Dolly, 39 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: Welcome to the bright Side. 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 4: Thank you so lovely to be here. I wish I 41 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 4: could match your beautiful, sunshiny voice, but unfortunately my vocal 42 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 4: cords have been hit by Thankfully aggressive la air conditioning. 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, we have. 44 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 4: The air conditioning doesn't exist me. 45 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: We have a sexy voice going on. 46 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 2: That's what we called it when we were in sixth 47 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: grade and we lost our voices. 48 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 4: A sexy voice. 49 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, Doly, you've really established a distinct voice as a writer, 50 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 3: and you've even been compared to some of our favorite 51 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: leading ladies like Kerry Bradshaw and Bridget Jones. Do you 52 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: embrace these comparisons? How do you feel about that? 53 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 4: I find it so flattering you do, yeah, totally. You know, 54 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 4: I've always been such a culture obsessive. I've been like 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 4: that since I could read, watch, listen, And these people 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 4: there is Helen Fielding writing, Bridget Jones or Carrie Bradshaw 57 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 4: or my favorite filmmakers, my favorite singers. They are so 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 4: a part of my heart and brain and soul. And 59 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 4: I so hope that some of that, like bioles mosis, 60 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 4: went in and you know, comes out in expression, because 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 4: I just think there is no person on earth who 62 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 4: has had the exact same cultural diet that I've had 63 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 4: from the moment I was born until now, which means, yeah, 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 4: the Bridget Jones is in there and carry Bradshaw's in there, 65 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 4: but like Doris Lessing's in there, and you know, the 66 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 4: Clasher in there. There's like it's a huge patchwork quilt 67 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 4: of people that have helped form who I am and 68 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 4: how I think and what I love. So it's if 69 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 4: tiny fragments of that suddenly appear. I think that's great. 70 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: I think we don't mind being compared to people who 71 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: are good. 72 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: Right, Like I was just gonna say about like Carrie 73 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: Bradshaw and Bridget Jones are so beloved, great comparison. Yeah, 74 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: you know, there aren't really credentials for advice. 75 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: It feels like to me, you either got it or 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: you don't get it. 77 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's very clear when our friends 78 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: don't get it. 79 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: You know they are you know, different friends for different reasons. 80 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: So's true, they're not the advice friends. You clearly have 81 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: the innate gift. How did you know that you got it? 82 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: Thank you. I've always been the person who's lecturing other 83 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 4: people how to live their lives. I remember like handing 84 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 4: out sex advice at school. I didn't use my virginity 85 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,559 Speaker 4: until I was like just shy of eighteen. You should 86 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 4: have heard me when I was thirteen, advising girls on 87 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 4: how to sleep with their boyfriends. And I think you know, 88 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 4: I've always been a nosy person. I've always been quite 89 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 4: a perverted little kid. I always like hearing about people's 90 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 4: private lives and people's relationships, and people's desires, and people's 91 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: transgressions and inner workings. You know, the last twenty years 92 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 4: of my life, the majority of it has been spent 93 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 4: sitting around a pub table, a restaurant table, or a 94 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 4: tiny table, or on a sofa, shooting the share with 95 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 4: women and talking about their lives and giving each other 96 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 4: our insights, which is basically a PhD in being an 97 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 4: agony on and an advice columnist. Yeah, I have a 98 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 4: lifetime experience of this in my teens and twenties to help. 99 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 4: And I think because I've written in the past about 100 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 4: my own bad choices and mistakes, and I've been a 101 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 4: vulnerable writer in the past, that equips me to give 102 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 4: advice to people being vulnerable because I'm not pretending like 103 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 4: I make all the right choices. I actually think I'm 104 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 4: equipped because I've made so many bad ones. 105 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 2: So you hit on something that I really wanted to 106 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: ask you about, which is I think part I have 107 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: armchair theories all the time and no credentials either. So 108 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:57,679 Speaker 2: I feel like advice columnists, the really great ones, in part, 109 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 2: do it because they want to help people not hurt 110 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: the way that they hurt. 111 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, so true, God, that's so smart. That's exactly why 112 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 4: I do it. Real the ones I ever said it 113 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 4: like that. 114 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, my armchair theory about you is that, like you 115 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: are a girl's girl. You just mentioned like being in 116 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: community with other women and just chatting and chatting and chatting. 117 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: That's how I learn totally. 118 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: So what is your why behind the advice columns and 119 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: the books? 120 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 4: Such a good question. Why. I think I felt really 121 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 4: lonely when I was a teenage girl. The minute that 122 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 4: I found salvation in like minded women, I felt homecoming 123 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 4: and sole connection and family in a way i'd kind 124 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 4: of never experienced in my entire life. I'm aware that 125 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 4: a lot of women don't get that, or they don't 126 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 4: get that until a bit later in life. The life 127 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 4: of a woman even now is basically so many markers 128 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: of shame, from crypto toomb. You know, if you look 129 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 4: at cross section of the letters that I get, I mean, 130 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 4: it's ninety percent of the letters from women, and all 131 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: of them are am I doing something wrong? Have I 132 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 4: messed up? And it begins with teenage girls who can't 133 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 4: get a boyfriend or can't lose their virginity, and then 134 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 4: it goes to girls in their twenties who feel like 135 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 4: they're lost and they're not having the career they're meant 136 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 4: to have, or they're not living the Carrie Bradshaw's city 137 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 4: life they're meant to live. Well, they haven't got the 138 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 4: friendships they're meant to have. And then it's I want children. 139 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 4: I can't find someone to have children with me. Then 140 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: they have children, and then it's like I'm a crap mum, 141 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 4: and it's like my teenage daughters, I'm worried about them. 142 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 4: I don't think I'm serving them. And then it's my 143 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 4: husband's cheated? Was I a bad wife? And then sometimes 144 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: it's even like women in their seventies. I get emails 145 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 4: being like, how do I spice it up in the 146 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 4: bedroom because my husband is going to stray ol whatever. 147 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 4: I'm like, God, this is life long, like shame and 148 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 4: punitive voice. And women are my thing and they're my 149 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 4: people and the people I spend most time with them, 150 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 4: work with the most passionate about anything that I can 151 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 4: do in my storytelling or in my sharing that helps 152 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: them feel less alone and more connected to each other. 153 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 4: Just makes me so happy. 154 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: You mentioned feeling loneliness and isolation as a teenage girl, and, 155 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 3: like Danielle so expertly said, I think you're communicating with 156 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: a lot of inner teenagers that are hidden inside the 157 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: bodies of these grown women who are walking around the 158 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: world today. 159 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 4: God, you're so good, you two, because that is my 160 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 4: big theory with my work. Really, yeah, I'm so in 161 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 4: touch with my teenage self. I'm like on the phone 162 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 4: tour every day. 163 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: What does she need to hear? What do you tell her? 164 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 4: She just needs permission to be herself. She needs reassurance 165 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 4: that'll be okay. She needs reassurance that every thought that 166 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 4: she's had or feelings she's had, someone else, some person before, 167 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 4: has had it. I just feel her presence so much. 168 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 4: I feel her in triumph, I give her a high five. 169 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 4: I feel her in tragedy. I feel I just it's 170 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 4: just an iteration of self that I just feel so 171 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 4: will follow me forever. And I think that about all 172 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 4: human beings, unless you're one of those freaks that had 173 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 4: a great time as an adolescent. I'm sure there are some. 174 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 3: There's always something. 175 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 4: It's like a cool wound being a teenage person, I 176 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 4: think lives in everyone, and I'm always trying to, like 177 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 4: those wounds kind of speak to each other without us 178 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 4: even knowing. I think that's what I love. When I 179 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 4: fall in love with someone, I'm so fascinated with understanding 180 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 4: who they were as a fourteen year old boy, or 181 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 4: who that you know, and whether what they would have 182 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 4: thought of me as a fourteen year old girl. I 183 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 4: think it will stick with me forever, that sense of like, 184 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 4: I think that so much of the making of our 185 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 4: self confidence, well, I think all of it actually is 186 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 4: done in those years. 187 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 3: I want to ask you about this quote that went viral. 188 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 3: You said, everything I know about love I've learned from 189 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: my long term friendships with women. What were you reflecting 190 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 3: on when you wrote that? 191 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 4: So there is a girl out there, maybe she's listening. 192 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 4: I've got to track her down. She took that from 193 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 4: my audiobook and she put it over a Phoebe Bridge 194 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 4: a song, put it as a TikTok clip. I think 195 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 4: it's now. I had like a bajillion zillion people reuse 196 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 4: it amazing. Off the back of that this week, everything 197 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 4: I Know about Love will being in the New York 198 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 4: Times perstsellers for a year. Having bombed when it first 199 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 4: came out, and having not been we couldn't sell it. 200 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 4: We went to fifty publishers. I think it's what got 201 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 4: me my American Asian. I think it's what got me 202 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 4: a great reception to do material. So if that girl's listening, 203 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 4: I want to buy you a handbag, pave whatever you want. 204 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 4: I want to take you out of lunch and take 205 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 4: your shopping because I really owe that girl something. Yeah, 206 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 4: it's interesting to me that that is the well, that 207 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 4: quite kind of the heart of the book, I suppose, 208 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 4: But I didn't know it was the heart of the 209 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 4: book when I was writing the book. When I started 210 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 4: writing the memoir, I thought it was about growing up, 211 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 4: and I thought it was about kind of trying to 212 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 4: find the romantic love. And I thought it was about 213 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 4: coming of age and becoming a woman, being in your twenties. 214 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 4: And I wrote all these chapters, and it was only 215 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 4: when I went to the final chapter to write it 216 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 4: I went back and read the whole book and I 217 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 4: was like, what the fuck is this book about? And 218 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 4: then I realized there was just one thing that linked 219 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 4: up every single chapter, on every page of the book, 220 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 4: and on every page of my life at that time. 221 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 4: It's just been these women that were there. And then 222 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 4: I realized that I had been writing a story about 223 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: falling in love. It was about these friendships. 224 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: WHOA so because when I think about falling in love, 225 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: I do not think about my friendships. 226 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: They're very separate to me. What was the link for you? 227 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 4: I think what it was is I looked back at 228 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 4: these collected experiences. Some of it was profound. Some of 229 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 4: it was being there for each other during grief, during heartbreak, 230 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 4: advising each other. But a lot of it was in 231 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 4: those stories in the memoir, getting drunk together, living in 232 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 4: a flat together, going to the movies together, cooking together, 233 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 4: lying around watching TV. When you're on a hungover on 234 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 4: a Sunday, just hanging out. And you think you're hanging 235 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: out like that all this time, that you're collecting this 236 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 4: unit time and memory, some silly, some insignificant, some completely unmemorable. 237 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 4: You think it's just hanging out, that's the verb. And 238 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: then I think you get to Nity thirty and then 239 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 4: you look back at how you've got through that first 240 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 4: section of adulthood. You're like, Oh, it wasn't hanging out, 241 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 4: it was falling in love. Oh wow. They were the 242 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 4: people that got me through that. They helped me become 243 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 4: a woman. 244 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: Really, that's really nice. 245 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 3: We have to take a quick break. But when we 246 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: come back, Dolly sharing the heartache she never saw coming. 247 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 3: We're back with advice columnist and author the bridget Jones 248 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: of our time, Dolly Alderton. Okay, I have to ask 249 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 3: you about your latest bestselling novel, Good Material. You wrote 250 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: a breakup story through the perspective of a man. Such 251 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 3: a refreshing take. 252 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: So, Steve Harvey, of you. 253 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 3: She is that's the other comparison that she gets, Steve Harvey, 254 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 3: are they Yeah? Huh. What's the biggest difference between how 255 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 3: men and women handle heartbreak? 256 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 4: That's a great question. I interviewed fifteen men when I 257 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 4: was researching the book. I did like twenty hours of 258 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 4: conversation with male friends, with my poor friends, husbands and 259 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: boyfriends and male colleagues. Here's where I found. Basically, men 260 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 4: go through the exact same internal process as women. Personality dependent. Obviously, 261 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 4: there's not a monolithsgendered experience of difficult emotional things, but 262 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 4: in terms of like those stages of grief that one 263 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 4: goes through as a woman that we're so familiar with 264 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 4: that we know how to be there for each other 265 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 4: when you're going through it, like you're in shock and 266 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 4: then you're incredibly sad, and then you're very angry, and 267 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 4: then you're self lacerating and you're obsessing, and then you're 268 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 4: blaming yourself, and then you know all those things that 269 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 4: we know about because every time one of us goes 270 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 4: through it, the Senate is called, yeah, we will deal 271 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 4: with it. They go through exactly the same thing. They 272 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 4: just don't have their people to help them through it. 273 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 4: So they do have close male friends. Love that I'm 274 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 4: literally talking like David Attenborough. I guess the male I 275 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 4: have gone out into the bush and examined these things 276 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 4: called men. They do have close male friends. And what's 277 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 4: important to say, because I don't want to be two 278 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 4: men from Mars women from Venus about this. Every single 279 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 4: man I spoke to, even when they were talking about 280 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 4: the failings of their male friendships, all of them talked 281 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 4: about how much they couldn't look without their male friends 282 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 4: and love them, So it's a different kind of love 283 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 4: and support to the support that traditionally women get from 284 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 4: these female communities of friends. But what they did say 285 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 4: was they were given a really limited amount of time 286 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 4: to talk about heartbreak. They were only allowed to process 287 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 4: it and one pub session or one phone call. 288 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: But who sets those guidelines for them? 289 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: Culture? Is what they said. 290 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: I've heard that for women, breakups, even friendship breakups feel 291 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: like a break in self, and it's different. Men feel 292 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: like the breakup with that person, do you find any 293 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: truth there? 294 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 4: Wow, that's so interesting, I think again, obviously it's totally 295 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 4: personality dependent. But a lot of men that I spoke to, 296 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 4: their fixation was about the other, was about the woman, 297 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 4: particularly who the woman then moved on with as well 298 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: was something that seemed to us and. 299 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: The primal territorialism away. 300 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and also it's just I suppose that's like 301 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: putting it on the person. It's externalizing, like something that's 302 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 4: so difficult to talk about, whereas I think with women, 303 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 4: I always go back to self in breakup. It's always like, 304 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 4: what what did I do. 305 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: Well to your earlier point? As the PM punitive right. 306 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so interesting that difference. I think the I 307 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 4: think we're just given more language for emotion, and I 308 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 4: think a lot of men traditionally don't have that language 309 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 4: because they don't talk about emotions as much. There was 310 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 4: this one guy who spoke to He said this thing 311 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 4: that I thought was really interesting. He's a good male 312 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 4: friend of mine. He said, when I talk to you 313 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 4: about emotions, or I see you and another one of 314 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 4: our female friends talk about emotions, he was like, it's 315 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 4: like I'm listening to an orchestra to this like finely tuned. 316 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 4: It's like you tune up the violin and then she 317 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 4: comes in on the harp and it's like effortless and beautiful, 318 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 4: and you make sense to each other and it's harmonious. 319 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 4: And then when I try and join in, it's like 320 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 4: a Grade one recorder player, like honking along and I 321 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 4: just can't keep up. And he was like, you know, 322 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 4: I think there's a lot that's said about toxic masculinity 323 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 4: and the fear of being vulnerable as a man, which 324 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 4: is seria and must be talked about. He was like, 325 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 4: we also just down out of the training, so we're 326 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 4: kind of afraid of sounding stupid. 327 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 2: Have you ever been in a relationship with a man 328 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: that you taught to talk because like, and I'm asking 329 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: you because I feel like when I met a man, 330 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: he didn't want to have those conversations, and then years 331 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: later he was trying to have the conversations with me, 332 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: and I was like, we really learned something here, didn't Wait. 333 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 4: Every boyfriend have ever had? Wow, every boyfriend I ever had? 334 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: That's cool. 335 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 4: Those bitches they marry owe me so much. Honestly. 336 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: So you mentioned you're thirty five. 337 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about the thirties because 338 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 2: another one of my theories is that the twenties were 339 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: branded totally incorrectly miss marketed. 340 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 3: I feel like I was sold a bill of goods wait, 341 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 3: mis marketed as what people. 342 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: People said this about college too, They tell you, oh 343 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: my god, it's the best time of your lives. 344 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 4: It's so fun. 345 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: And my mother, Thank goodness for my mother. 346 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: She sat me down before I moved to LA and 347 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: she's said, the twenties were the hardest decade of my life. 348 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 3: Oh good honor, just buckle up. 349 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: If it's hard for you, buckle up. 350 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 2: They were really tough for me. The thirties have been 351 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: not that they're not tough. But just more peaceful. I 352 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: feel like I know myself better. I'm curious to know 353 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: how you feel about the thirties so far. If they 354 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 2: were what you expected, they've been a bit. 355 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 4: Of a shit show. Actually, got to be honest. 356 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 3: Am I allowed to swear on this podcast? 357 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 4: By the way. 358 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: What you're saying is it's very individual. 359 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 4: What I think I'm saying is I feel like I 360 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 4: was sold and doun about the thirties. 361 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: Tell me more. 362 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 4: I was told that the peace thing. I was told 363 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 4: about peacefulness, And here's the thing. Emotionally, it's much more. 364 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: Peaceful, That's what I mean. 365 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, in terms of like how I feel about 366 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 4: myself and my relationships, my interpersonal relationships, and how I 367 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 4: communicate with people I work with. I have more confidence. 368 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 4: I am much more relaxed, I'm much less new erotic, 369 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 4: and I'm much more transparent with Mike exchanges. So life 370 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 4: is much easier emotionally. But like I think, thirty to 371 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 4: thirty five as a woman is a really difficult time. Friends. 372 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 4: Having babies throws a bomb in your life that I couldn't. 373 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 4: No one really warned me about that. I was warned 374 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: about the twenties. I was warned, you'll be skinned and 375 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 4: works really difficult, and boys are horrible, and you'll drink 376 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 4: too much. I kind of knew that. No one told me. 377 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 4: Thirty to thirty five, your friendships are going to change. 378 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 4: Forget you know what I wrote about and everything I 379 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 4: know about love with people getting boyfriends and moving in 380 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 4: with boyfriends, that's like nothing. Thirty to thirty five, your 381 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 4: whole community is going to change, and you're going to 382 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 4: be really lost, and you're going to feel really left behind, 383 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 4: and you're going to have like these people that you 384 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 4: invested in and fell in love with and created this 385 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 4: world and schedule with, they're going to hit the bricks. 386 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 4: They're gone for a while, and you are going to 387 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 4: be If you're single, you're going to be really alone. 388 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 4: No one warned me about that. 389 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: Do you feel like you've lost a lot of friends 390 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 3: in your early thirties to life transitions? 391 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 4: This is the thing. This huge four happens at thirty. 392 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 4: You know, I know lots of friends, they're married with kids. 393 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 4: They've now told me they really felt like they weren't 394 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 4: exciting enough for me, or they weren't they couldn't keep 395 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 4: up with me, or I didn't have the time for them, 396 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 4: and then on the other side, I felt like, well, 397 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 4: your children are understandably now everything, and you don't have 398 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 4: any time for me, and I have to always go 399 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 4: into your world rather than I was meeting in the middle. 400 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 4: It's just a really fractured time for female friendship. I 401 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 4: think luckily I've done so much healing now people's kids 402 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 4: have got a bit older. But I think that's I 403 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 4: think that's really challenging. I think the other thing people 404 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 4: don't want you about is if you're a career person, 405 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 4: which I am kind of obsessed with it, if you've 406 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 4: been working like a dog since For me, it like 407 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 4: predates college, since I was like a teenager writing for 408 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 4: local papers or doing whatever I was. 409 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: Doing, like fifteen plus years. 410 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, the minute that you really hit the ground 411 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 4: running with work, you can start to make proper money, 412 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,239 Speaker 4: where you're starting to really work with the people who 413 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 4: want to work with, where you're really leveling up every 414 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 4: year with all the work that you're doing. That's the 415 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 4: exact moment that every doctor you see will tell you 416 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 4: you're about to run out of time to have children. 417 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 3: Geriatric pregnancy. 418 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is really so deeply the two things. 419 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 4: Happen exactly the same time. Everyone at work says, we 420 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 4: need you all the time. 421 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: How have you thought about it now or how do 422 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: you think about it now? 423 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 4: I can't wait for the day whether either have a baby. 424 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 4: I don't have a baby, and this doesn't This isn't 425 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 4: something I have to think about it anymore. It would 426 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 4: be allowed to say I never think about it at all. 427 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 4: I've definitely gone through some very personal experiences that have 428 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 4: helped me surrender a bit more. There's only so much 429 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 4: proactive stuff you can do, which is hard for women 430 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 4: like us because everything else we want to. 431 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 3: Do we do, we do it, we study, we do 432 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 3: the work, and we do it ourselves or we do 433 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 3: it ourselves. 434 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can't do that with this, really, So 435 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 4: surrender's helped perspective, I think has really helped, and I'm 436 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 4: feeling I'm weirdly feeling way calmer about it. At thirty five, 437 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 4: then I did it, say thirty three, that's great? Yeah, 438 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 4: where are you now with it? 439 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: I think about it almost every night before I go 440 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: to bed. 441 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I play like a future life out and 442 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, if I start dating somebody in six months, 443 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 2: then I date them for a year and then do 444 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: I get prepped, Like I just start playing this fake 445 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: life out and I don't know where it lands. 446 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 4: I'm going to tell you something that really really helped me. Yeah, 447 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 4: you know, And there's a reason why. If you look 448 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 4: at all my favorite writers and directors credit go Amy Schumer, 449 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 4: Lena's on him, they all approached motherhood late though early forties. 450 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: That's not a coincidence why that happened. And I remember 451 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 4: one of those women saying to me, Dolly, I was like, yeah, 452 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 4: you're wage to thirty three. I was single at the time. 453 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 4: I was freaking out about it, doing the maths of 454 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: like if I meet this person then, and it would 455 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 4: kind of make me freak out about work opportunities. I'd 456 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 4: be like, right, if I have to be on set 457 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 4: abroad for a year, but what if I didn't meet anyone. 458 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 4: That's a year. You can't think about your life like that. 459 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 4: And she said to me once, you said, the biggest 460 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 4: regret of my life is thirty to thirty five is 461 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 4: a really magic period in a woman's life because you're 462 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 4: still really youthful and you things are starting to really 463 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 4: go away with work. You know who you are, You're 464 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 4: more confident that should be a time where we are 465 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 4: in our absolute power, that we should be long cloud nine, 466 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 4: rather than lying in bed every night feeling ashamed and 467 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 4: anxious about this thing that our male counterparts that are 468 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 4: busy working aren't really doing. And she was like, my 469 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 4: biggest regret was that that time in my life I 470 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 4: wasn't present and I didn't make the most of it. 471 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 4: I didn't enjoy it, and I didn't stand in my 472 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 4: power because I was freaking out all the time about 473 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 4: this fucking baby shit. And then she had her babies 474 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 4: at thirty nine and forty one. She said, totally, once 475 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 4: you have babies, I'm sure you can speak to this. 476 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 4: It's all about babies. It's no going back your life. 477 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 4: It's just all about the babies. It's all about being 478 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 4: a parent when you become a parent. So do rush 479 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 4: to that bit because you gotta go back after that. 480 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 3: I think that's true. I also think I'm one of 481 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 3: those moms that you described who has babies who are 482 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 3: turning into little people. 483 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 4: Now. 484 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, and when I think about it, motherhood like it's 485 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 3: kind of like every other dream job I've ever had. Interesting, 486 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 3: you get the dream job and you realize, Wow, this 487 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: isn't what I thought it was going to be in 488 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 3: a lot of ways, so true, and then once you 489 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 3: got that thing that you really want a few months 490 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: years later, your life kind of equalizes again. 491 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 4: That's I think that is so accurate from everything that 492 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 4: I think, that's like the universal experience. Yeah, for most women. 493 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 4: I am in a position now where I actually could 494 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 4: have a baby for the you know, for the first 495 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: time for a long time. I'm in such a flex 496 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 4: I'm in a personal situation and everything situation where I 497 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 4: could do that, and I don't want to right now 498 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 4: because something I realized is thirty thirty five. If all 499 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 4: you're thinking about all the time is the maths of 500 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 4: can I do this? Can I do this? Am I 501 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 4: going to get left behind? Am I going to miss out? 502 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 4: What you stopped thinking about is do I want to 503 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 4: be a parent And what's it like to have small 504 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 4: children like babies and small children in my life? And 505 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 4: how's that going to affect my life? And I think 506 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 4: so many, not so many. A few women I know 507 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 4: I've been honest about the fact that they rushed into 508 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 4: this thing because they were really panicked about it, and 509 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 4: they and they were like, oh, few, I can get pregnant, 510 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 4: and I found the right guy, and then the baby 511 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 4: came and they hadn't kind of thought about what happens. 512 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's so true. 513 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: Thank you. You actually gave me a lot of peace. 514 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 4: Oh, I hope. So you've got a lot of time. 515 00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 4: It'll be fine. 516 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 3: We've got to take another break. But when we come back, 517 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 3: we're going down memory lane with some of Dolly's old 518 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 3: thoughts on men, dating and love from her Everything I 519 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: Know About Love memoir. We'll find out if she still 520 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 3: thinks faking orgasms is a good idea stick around. We're 521 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 3: back with Dolly Alderton. Okay, we're going through some of 522 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: the standout sentiments you've written about love in your memoir 523 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 3: Everything I Know About Love. So let's see what still 524 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 3: holds up for you. Okay, all right, So we're going 525 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 3: to start with a quote that you gave when you 526 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 3: were a teenager. You said that quote, romantic love is 527 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 3: the most important love in the entire world. If you 528 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 3: don't have it when you're a proper grown up, you've failed. 529 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: How do you feel about the importance of romantic love. 530 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 4: Now, Maad, I've seen about it. I mean this truth 531 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 4: is I am a real romantic and I've lived a 532 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 4: very romantic life, even though I haven't had a lot 533 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 4: of long term relationships. I think here's what I think. 534 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 4: I think the great human quandary for a lot of us, 535 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 4: particularly women, is the need for autonomy and freedom and 536 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 4: independent sense of self and achievement. I think that's so natural, 537 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 4: and that is counterweighted in a total opposition with the 538 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 4: need for a partner and the need need for security 539 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 4: and domestic safety and romance and sex. So I'm really 540 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 4: interested now in how we balance those two things. That's 541 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 4: my very diplomatic answer. 542 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: It's great, Dolly, it's time to talk about orgasms. 543 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: At twenty one years old, you said orgasms are easy 544 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 2: to fake and make both parties feel good do a 545 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 2: good deal of the day. 546 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: Do you still subscribe to that sentiment. 547 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 4: No, I can't believe I have a faked. 548 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: I did too. It hasn't everyone. 549 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 3: Man. 550 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 4: I remember the day that I said no, I can't 551 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 4: do this anymore. And it was because tell me about 552 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 4: the day. It was because it was in my twenties 553 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 4: and it was with a guy I really really liked. 554 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 4: And the problem is if you fake early then when 555 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 4: you stop faking, which you want to do if you've 556 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 4: fallen in love because you were real into pacy and connection. 557 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: People go into marriages faking. 558 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 3: It, I know. 559 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 4: But then when you start the guys like, well, what happened? 560 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 4: Why is this not working anymore? 561 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: And whenever? 562 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: This is boldero. 563 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 4: Twenty eight. 564 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty young. 565 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: But do you think yeah, I think I stopped thinking 566 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: at like thirty, really yeah. 567 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 4: Because I do think the problem is men aren't told 568 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 4: that it's more complicated and takes longer, and that that's 569 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 4: the thing, Like if everyone knew that that everyone could 570 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 4: be chilly, like if you fake then or like even 571 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 4: if you don't fake, the fear is that they're going 572 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 4: to think they're not good or something with their ego. 573 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 4: It's like, let's just get all the information out there. 574 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 4: Then no one will feel under any pressure. 575 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 3: This next one is hilarious. At twenty five years old, 576 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,959 Speaker 3: you said, quote online dating is for losers and I 577 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 3: include myself in that. Is that still how you feel? 578 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 4: Do you remember a time you guys must remember a 579 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 4: time where it was like it was so embarrassing to 580 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 4: before tinder. 581 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there was a light of shame around it. 582 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 4: It was so like I have friends who I'm pretty 583 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 4: sure have lied to me about how they met them. 584 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 4: Oart know, if they met them pre Tinder, on Plenty 585 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 4: of Fish or whatever. I think dating apps I think 586 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 4: they've brought their own whole host of problems, but I 587 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: think they really make sense in particularly in city life, 588 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 4: the way that we live, the scarcity of time that 589 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 4: we have. I don't think anyone should feel ashamed about 590 00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 4: being on a dating app. 591 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, this next one is my favorite. 592 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: At twenty five years old, Dolly, you said, if a 593 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 2: man has always been single at forty five, there's a 594 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: reason don't stick around to find out. 595 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I do you think I stand by that? 596 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 3: My mom says this to me. 597 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, because at thirty three, I'm getting into the age 598 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: range of like forty five could be okay to date. 599 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 4: By the way, forty five is the perfect age. 600 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: Really. 601 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, we can offline about it, guys. 602 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 3: Here's the flip side of this that no one wants 603 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 3: to talk about. Is the same true for women at 604 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 3: forty five? No? 605 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's the same. 606 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 3: It's for men. 607 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it is. 608 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 4: Because here's the difference with women, particularly women of our generation, 609 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 4: the dating app generation. Our generation have been massively let 610 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 4: down by millennial men because I understand why they've done this, 611 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 4: and if I were a man, may be able to 612 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 4: done the same. I think millennial men have been afforded 613 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 4: a kind of lifelong boyhood, and I think because of 614 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,479 Speaker 4: the advent of dating apps and the fact that they 615 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 4: don't have the biological pressure that we have, a lot 616 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 4: of men of our generation will be settling down in 617 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 4: their forties and fifties with much younger women, which leaves 618 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 4: the generation of millennial women kind of fucked unless they're 619 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 4: going older. 620 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: Right or younger at twenty eight years old. You said 621 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: men love a naked woman. 622 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 2: All other bells and whistles are an expensive waste of time. 623 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: I do agree. 624 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 3: What are the bells and whistles? 625 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 4: Lingerie, lingerie, fake tan, all this crazy stuff we do? 626 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 3: But we do those things because we can't walk around 627 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: naked off the time. But that's why we do this thing. 628 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 4: But you know, the performance or the basically I think 629 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 4: what I'm getting out there is I feel so fine 630 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 4: getting naked with a man now for the first time. 631 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: Daly, you shure Diese, but I now know. 632 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 4: Through a lot of field research. Let's say, men really 633 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 4: don't care how big you are or small you are, 634 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 4: if you're perky tids or psachityds. They just don't care. 635 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 4: If they're into you and you're sexy and they enjoy 636 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 4: your company, they are just so happy or naked, it 637 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 4: doesn't make any difference at all. I wish I could 638 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 4: make young women understand that. Yeah, because I really I'm 639 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 4: not trying to make people feel better, it's really true. 640 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 3: That is such a great reminder, Daly, you have been 641 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 3: so much fun. Thank you so much for entertaining and 642 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: informing us. Before we let you go, we have to 643 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 3: call out that you're the first international expert that we've had. 644 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 3: On the bright side, so when it comes to dating, 645 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 3: what dating principle have you found to be universal? 646 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 4: Okay, here's my best dating tip, Thurst. Date don't do 647 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 4: them on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. And what 648 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 4: I mean by that is practically, don't use your most 649 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 4: important times of your week to invest it in a stranger, 650 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 4: but psychologically don't invest in a stranger. Really approach it 651 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 4: all with lightness. Go for a Wednesday afternoon drink, then 652 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 4: have a dinner with someone else planned. 653 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: Afterwards double bocom. Yeah. 654 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 4: I just think when you're in trouble with dating apps 655 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 4: is it's the over investment in people that don't owe 656 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 4: you your future. So move through it lightly and then 657 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 4: you can have fun. 658 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 2: You just saved me so much because I get stuck 659 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: at a table with somebody because I can talk. 660 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 4: And then you make them have a great day and 661 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 4: terrible time. 662 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: And so it's like, sorry, I have dinner, I gotta go. Yeah, exactly, Gollie, 663 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 1: thank you so much, so lovely. 664 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 4: I've loved this, Thank you so much. 665 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 3: I don't want this to end. We could talk to 666 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: you all day, so you'll just have to come back. 667 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 3: Will you come back your next book? 668 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 4: I will, yeah, And well may I'll come back and 669 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 4: we have spicy mogs down the road. Please. 670 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 3: You're speaking my love language now. Dolly Alderton is a 671 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 3: best selling author and advice calumnist. That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, 672 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 3: it's Wellness Wednesday, y'all. Stress expert doctor Adit Narukar is 673 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: here to tell us how to manage our stress levels 674 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 3: and alleviate burnout. 675 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 676 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 677 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 3: I'm simone Voice. You can find me at simone Voice 678 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok. 679 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. 680 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: That's r O B A. 681 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 3: Y See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.