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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague David Rubinstein, Carlisle, co founder, host of Peer

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Speaker 2: to Peer on Bloomberg Television, sitting down with Alejandro my orcis.

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Speaker 2: As you can see right now on Bloomberg Television, let's

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Speaker 2: watch and listen together of our.

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Speaker 3: Homeland Security Advisory Council in the Department of Homeland Security

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Speaker 3: and the.

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Speaker 1: Jewel thief that I am.

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Speaker 3: I just stole Matthew Ferraro from the law from to

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Speaker 3: join us and be a senior counselor on matters of technology.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, let me talk about the elephant in the room,

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Speaker 4: because you were the second secretary in the history of

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Speaker 4: our country to be impeached. What was it like living

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Speaker 4: through that impeachment process and is it finally over now?

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Speaker 3: To the best of my knowledge, it's over, so you know,

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Speaker 3: quite frankly, I have said publicly a number of times

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Speaker 3: that I did not allow it to distract me. That

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Speaker 3: was actually sincere I focused intensely on my work throughout.

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Speaker 3: In a week where it was an issue of greater

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Speaker 3: prominence in the life of the department, I might have

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Speaker 3: spent twenty minutes on it. I really just focused on

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Speaker 3: my work. It had its impact on loved ones.

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Speaker 4: So it's behind us now. Though, as Will Rogers once said,

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Speaker 4: and paraphrasing him, the country is never safe as long

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Speaker 4: as the house is in session, right, So you never know,

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Speaker 4: but may never come back, right.

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Speaker 1: One would hope not.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So let's talk about the border. It appears that

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of people coming in over the border.

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Speaker 4: This is obviously one of the subjects of that people

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Speaker 4: wanted to impeach you. Some people wanted to them peach

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Speaker 4: you over. Is it really that we're getting more people

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Speaker 4: coming in over the border illegally or is it just

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Speaker 4: the appearance of that?

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Speaker 3: Oh no, No, The number of encounters at the southern

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Speaker 3: border is very high, but it's very very important number

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Speaker 3: one to contextualize it and number two to explain it

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Speaker 3: from a context perspective. The world is seeing the greatest

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Speaker 3: level of displacement since at least World War Two. I

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Speaker 3: think the recent report was that there are seventy three

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Speaker 3: million displaced people in the United States. And so the

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Speaker 3: challenge of migration is not exclusive to the southern border,

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Speaker 3: nor to the western hemisphere.

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Speaker 1: It is global.

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Speaker 3: And when I speak to partners across the Atlantic. It's

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Speaker 3: the first issue that they raise, The first challenge that

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Speaker 3: what is the reason for that? So well? One has

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Speaker 3: the customary reasons of displacement, violence insecurity, poverty, corruption, authoritarian regimes,

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Speaker 3: now increasingly extreme weather events that propel people to leave.

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Speaker 1: Why are we experiencing what we are?

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Speaker 3: It is for those very reasons why people leave their

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Speaker 3: countries of origin. We also remember, in our hemisphere we

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Speaker 3: overcame COVID more rapidly than any other country. We had,

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Speaker 3: in a post COVID world, eleven million jobs to fill.

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Speaker 3: We are a country of choice as a destination. And

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Speaker 3: one takes those two forces, and then one considers the

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Speaker 3: fact that we have an immigration system that is broken

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Speaker 3: fundamentally and we have a level of encounter that we do.

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Speaker 3: And when we speak of a broken system, let me

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Speaker 3: just capture that as succinctly as I can. The average

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Speaker 3: time between encounter and the point of final adjudication of

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Speaker 3: an asylum claim is seven plus years. Approximately seventy percent

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Speaker 3: of the people who meet an initial threshold for asylum

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Speaker 3: the credible fear standard about seventy qualify and so they

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Speaker 3: stay for seven plus years and the ultimate adjudication about

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Speaker 3: twenty percent qualify. That's quite a disparity. But people in

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Speaker 3: the meantime leave that are able to stay sometimes have children.

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Speaker 3: US citizen children attend our schools, attend our places of worship,

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Speaker 3: but integrate in the community.

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Speaker 4: I understand, But why wouldn't somebody who coming in illegally

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Speaker 4: always say they're seeking political asylum because based on what

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Speaker 4: you just said, they're likely to be here for seven years.

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Speaker 4: Why not just say I'm not smuggling drugs, I'm just

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Speaker 4: a political asylum seeker. Why doesn't anybody do that.

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Speaker 3: The drug Let's separate drug smuggling from migration, David, The

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Speaker 3: fact of the matter is that we have an extraordinary

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Speaker 3: number of people aiming asylum and a greatly reduced number

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Speaker 3: of people qualifying for it. The reality is that people

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Speaker 3: do claim asylum when in fact they are fleeing poverty,

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Speaker 3: generalize violence, and that does not an asylum case make.

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Speaker 3: But the initial threshold for an asylum case is low,

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Speaker 3: and purposely low. And one of the things that the

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Speaker 3: bipartisan legislation would have done is would have raised the

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Speaker 3: all right.

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Speaker 4: So in our country, if somebody seeks political asylum and

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Speaker 4: they legitimately need political asylum, is it our law that

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Speaker 4: they automatically get it if they have legitimate means. There's

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Speaker 4: no quotas or anything on how many people we can

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Speaker 4: accept for a political asylum.

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Speaker 3: There is no quota on the asylum population, and one

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Speaker 3: just has to persuade a judge.

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Speaker 4: So you've been Homeland Security secretary under President Biden from

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Speaker 4: the beginning administration. So how many people would you say

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Speaker 4: since that time have come over the border, the southern border,

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Speaker 4: let's say, illegally seeking asylum. They're bringing drugs or whatever

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Speaker 4: they're doing.

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Speaker 3: I do want to differentiate because we're in a political

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Speaker 3: environment that demonizes individuals encountered at the border, and there's

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Speaker 3: a vulnerability to painting with a broad brush people who

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Speaker 3: are fleeing in coming to the United States. And so

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Speaker 3: I want to separate and I will be incessant in

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Speaker 3: this separate rug smugglers from individuals seeking asylum or even

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Speaker 3: if they don't have a basis to remain in the

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Speaker 3: United States.

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Speaker 1: Seeking a better life.

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Speaker 3: And so the number of encounters have been very well

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Speaker 3: published this past year. This past month, we had about

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Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty four thousand encounters in.

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Speaker 4: This past month, say, since the beginning of the administration.

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Speaker 4: Is it millions of people? It's several million people. The

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Speaker 4: perception is by I guess some Republicans in the House

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Speaker 4: side perhaps maybe others, that more people have been coming

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Speaker 4: in under President Biden than under President Trump. Is that

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Speaker 4: true or not?

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Speaker 1: That is that is true? Now?

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Speaker 3: Twenty nineteen, there was almost a one hundred percent increase

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Speaker 3: in the number of encounters of the Southern border over

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. The situation in the Hemisphere was propelling people

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Speaker 3: to leave their country. Twenty twenty was a period of

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Speaker 3: tremendously suppressed migration throughout the Hemisphere and around the world

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Speaker 3: because of the COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 4: People coming over the border illegally in the Southern Border,

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Speaker 4: what percentage of them are really drug smugglers?

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Speaker 3: The majority of fentyl over ninety percent of the fentinyls

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Speaker 3: smuggled into this entry is smuggled in passenger vehicles and

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Speaker 3: commercial trucks traveling through are ports of entry.

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Speaker 4: So it's not people carrying it on their body.

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Speaker 1: It is not people carrying it on their body.

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Speaker 4: What about people who are hired who want to get

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Speaker 4: a better life. They hire people for money to get

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Speaker 4: them across the border. Is that a big problem as well?

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Speaker 3: So let me let me go back and make one

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Speaker 3: other point about the ports of entry. The majority of

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Speaker 3: people arrested seeking to smuggle fentanyl into the country through

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Speaker 3: commercial trucks and passenger vehicles are United States citizens?

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Speaker 4: What do with them?

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Speaker 3: So they're arrested for drug smuggling and under Title twenty

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Speaker 3: one of the United States Code, they're prosecuted. So with

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Speaker 3: respect to your question about, you know, people coming across

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Speaker 3: the border, what we need, What we need fundamental mentally

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Speaker 3: is a reformed system, a legislatively reformed system.

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Speaker 1: We are in twenty twenty four. The world has changed.

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Speaker 3: Our immigration system was last changed in nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 1: We're in a different world now.

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Speaker 4: Well, there was legislation that was developed, i think in

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Speaker 4: the Senate, bipartisan legislation, and it got stalled. Let's say,

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Speaker 4: in the House. Would that have solved our problem?

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Speaker 3: Had it passed, it would have been a transformative change

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Speaker 3: in managing the number of people we encounter.

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Speaker 4: What was the main thing that would have been in

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Speaker 4: that law that we don't have now that you would

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Speaker 4: have liked to have.

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Speaker 3: So we would have taken a seven plus year time

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Speaker 3: period between the time of encounter and final adjudication and

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Speaker 3: reduced it to as little as ninety days. And that

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Speaker 3: changes an intending migrants risk calculus, because if they know

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Speaker 3: that they can stay from multiple years and work and

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Speaker 3: make more money than they can and safely so than

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Speaker 3: in their country of origin, they will decide to make

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Speaker 3: that journey. If they understand that they have to pay

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Speaker 3: their life savings to a smuggling organization only to stay

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Speaker 3: for a matter of weeks, that is a very different

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Speaker 3: risk calculus. And one of your prior questions was do

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Speaker 3: they pay people to assist them? The world of migration

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Speaker 3: has changed dramatically over the last even fifteen years. We're

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Speaker 3: not dealing with the coyotes that I dealt with as

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Speaker 3: a federal prosecutor, that where they smuggle two three people

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Speaker 3: at a time. We're dealing with extraordinarily sophisticated smuggling organizations

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Speaker 3: in a multi billion dollar industry that is also international.

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Speaker 4: But that industry is it one design to bring drugs

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Speaker 4: into the United States or designed to get people to

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Speaker 4: come United States for which they get a fee.

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Speaker 1: It is the latter.

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Speaker 3: But what we are seeing, and it should be unsurprising

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Speaker 3: to everyone that we're seeing a.

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Speaker 1: Not quite a merger, I would say.

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Speaker 3: A synthesis of transnational criminal organizations and the smuggling organizations.

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Speaker 1: There's so much money to be made.

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Speaker 4: And fentanel is coming from China. Is that true?

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Speaker 3: Well, China is a primary source of precursor chemicals and

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Speaker 3: the equipment used to manufacture fednyls.

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Speaker 4: How does it get over from China to let's say Mexico.

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Speaker 3: It is shipped to Mexico, and it also comes domestically

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Speaker 3: to the United States and follows various transit routes. And

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Speaker 3: which is why I engaged with my counterpart from the

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Speaker 3: People's Republic of China to address this fact.

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Speaker 4: The people who are now coming over? Are we separating families?

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Speaker 4: Other words, under the Trump administration, there was a lot

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Speaker 4: of controversy children being separated from parents. Is that happening

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Speaker 4: now or not happening?

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Speaker 3: No, that was a deliberate practice to deter families from

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Speaker 3: reaching the southern border. Was the separation of them That

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Speaker 3: was condemned across the board. Cruelty is not something that

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Speaker 3: is an instrument of a value based country, and we

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Speaker 3: eliminated that practice. I actually was eliminated in all fairness.

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Speaker 3: Towards the end of the Trump administration, we issued a

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Speaker 3: policy preventing it, and we actually the president created a

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Speaker 3: Family Reunification Task Force that I chair that is actually

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Speaker 3: reuniting separated families.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so President Trump a campaign when he first campaigned

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Speaker 4: for president on creating a wall, and I guess some

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Speaker 4: part of the wall was built. But would not a

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Speaker 4: wall have helped somewhat if we had a big wall?

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Speaker 4: Would that not block people from coming even though people

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Speaker 4: like to make fun of the wall and expensive, would

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Speaker 4: not have had some impact and reducing illegal immigration.

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Speaker 3: So look, in the twenty first century, I wouldn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: propose cementing ballards on the ground and constructing an immovable

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Speaker 3: wall given the dynamism and the rapid change in migratory patterns.

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Speaker 3: But I just have to quote Secretary of Politano. You

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Speaker 3: build a twenty foot wall, they'll build a twenty one

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Speaker 3: foot ladder. And we see breaches of the wall all

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Speaker 3: the time. We're seeing the corrosion and collapse of the

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Speaker 3: wall in other places. But people breach physical barriers. It

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Speaker 3: requires a much more comprehensive approach.

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Speaker 4: So why wouldn't people come over the northern border where

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Speaker 4: somehow come out. Nobody seems to be monitoring the Canadian

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Speaker 4: border that much, I guess, So isn't easier to come

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Speaker 4: into the country illegally through Canada?

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Speaker 3: And we monitor the northern border of the United States

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Speaker 3: US customs and border protection. Some of the terrain is

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Speaker 3: very difficult to traverse. We have a different legal structure

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Speaker 3: with Canada. We have a Safe third Country agreement with

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Speaker 3: Canada and the reality and Canada also has different approaches

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Speaker 3: to migration into their country. Then do some of the

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Speaker 3: countries in Latin America.

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Speaker 4: If you wanted to come into this country illegally. Let's

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Speaker 4: suppose you were you want to come in.

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Speaker 1: Let's say if one wanted to come in.

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Speaker 4: One wanted to what would you recommend to that one

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Speaker 4: person that they do about the best way to get

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Speaker 4: into this country illegally?

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Speaker 1: I would.

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Speaker 3: I would caution them and encourage them to apply for

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Speaker 3: a visa, and if in fact they seek humanitarian relief,

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Speaker 3: to actually avail them themselves of the lawful pathways that

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Speaker 3: we have established so that they don't risk their lives

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Speaker 3: in the hands of smugglers.

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Speaker 4: All right, what percentage of people die trying to get

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Speaker 4: into this country, they're shot by somebody or something.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, David, a percentage, but I will share

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Speaker 3: with you having spoken to families who cross the Dairy

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Speaker 3: enn the area between Colombia and Panama, the suffering and

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Speaker 3: the trauma is extraordinary.

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Speaker 4: So what is the country that is sending the most

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Speaker 4: people illegally over the southern border? Is it Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela.

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Speaker 4: Where are they mostly coming from?

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Speaker 1: It varies, It varies from time to time.

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Speaker 3: I would just say that the population right now, demographically,

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Speaker 3: the population of individuals whom we are encountering at the

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Speaker 3: southern border in between the ports of entry predominantly right

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Speaker 3: now Mexican, Mexican.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So let's oppose the legislation that didn't pass. Maybe

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Speaker 4: eventually it'll pass, But until then, can you not administratively

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Speaker 4: do things that was in the legislation or are you

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Speaker 4: already doing that?

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Speaker 3: The legislation did a number of things. The two pillars

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Speaker 3: were It gave us the legal tools, statutorial statutory tools

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Speaker 3: to vastly accelerate the adjudication of claims for humanitarian relief,

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Speaker 3: and that means we could remove people more quickly who

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Speaker 3: do not qualify and quite frankly, we could give protection

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Speaker 3: with finality to people who do much more rapidly, and

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Speaker 3: it resourced us. It resourced us to effect that dramatic change.

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Speaker 3: We were talking about alatiece of legislation that would equip

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Speaker 3: us with four thousand, three hundred more asylum officers, more

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Speaker 3: immigration judges, just plus up the entire system in a

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Speaker 3: way that we now just don't have.

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Speaker 4: Okay, let me ask you a few other questions related

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Speaker 4: to this. So right now, the homeland Department of Homeland

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Speaker 4: Security was created after nine to eleven? Do you feel

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Speaker 4: we are much safer today than we were before nine

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Speaker 4: to eleven because of the Department? I do much more

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Speaker 4: and much at a nine to eleven event occur again,

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Speaker 4: or you.

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Speaker 3: Know, it is our job and not just the Department

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Speaker 3: of Homeland Security, but the federal government, in partnership with

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Speaker 3: state and local, tribal, territorial law enforcement and the American citizenry,

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Speaker 3: to be vigilant because the threat landscape, as direct array

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Speaker 3: of the FBI is accurately communicated publicly.

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Speaker 1: We're in a heightened threat environment.

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Speaker 4: So a number of people I think from Homeland Security

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Speaker 4: and or the CIA or NSA have gone to Capitol

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Speaker 4: Hill and said that TikTok is a danger to our

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Speaker 4: nation security. But the public hasn't been given that much

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Speaker 4: detailed information about what the threat is. How much of

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Speaker 4: a threat to our nation security is TikTok.

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Speaker 1: The People's Republic of China.

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Speaker 3: Acts adversely to the interests of the United States in

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Speaker 3: different ways. One of those ways is through the dissemination

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Speaker 3: of disinformation, the intentional communication of false statements, and TikTok

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Speaker 3: is an extraordinary avenue through which to disseminate disinformation to

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Speaker 3: millions and millions of people.

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Speaker 4: But newspapers can disseminate this information. Why is it If

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Speaker 4: it's over social media, it's got to be banned. If

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Speaker 4: a newspaper says the kind of same things that is

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Speaker 4: over TikTok wouldn't be banned because of the First Amendment.

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Speaker 4: Why is the First Amendment not protecting the TikTok social

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Speaker 4: media devices?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's not to me an issue of the First Amendment.

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Speaker 3: It's an issue of security. As we are talking about

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Speaker 3: a company and an algorithm that is controlled by a

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Speaker 3: foreign state that acts adversely to the interests of the

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Speaker 3: United States, and we have an obligation.

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Speaker 1: To protect Americans.

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Speaker 4: But the presumption is that people aren't smart enough to

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Speaker 4: know that it's disinformation and they can't make the decision

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Speaker 4: for themselves. Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Well, we're talking about many, many young people that access TikTok.

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Speaker 3: I would posit that in this country we don't have

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Speaker 3: the level of digital literacy that I think we.

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Speaker 1: Would all want.

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Speaker 3: We're all vulnerable to disinformation, and the reality is is

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Speaker 3: that we have an obligation to safeguard against it. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about the intentional dissemination of false information.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I should disclose that my firm is an investor

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Speaker 4: in White Dance, so I'm not personally an investor, but

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Speaker 4: my firm did invest in it. So let me go

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Speaker 4: on to another subject then, Okay, so what is you know?

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Speaker 1: My answers would have stayed the same had I known

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Speaker 1: that at the outset.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I didn't think you were going to change. But

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Speaker 4: do you have children who ever watch TikTok or you

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Speaker 4: tell them not to do that?

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Speaker 3: You know the one maxim from law school that I

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Speaker 3: remember very clearly. I don't think our older daughter it

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Speaker 3: looks at TikTok, our younger daughter does.

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Speaker 1: The law abhors a useless act. That is a maxim I.

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Speaker 3: Remember, And so if I admonished our nineteen year old

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Speaker 3: daughter to not access TikTok, I'm not sure I would succeed.

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Speaker 4: Okay, do you ever watch TikTok yourself?

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Speaker 3: She is a digitally no, she is a digitally literate

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Speaker 3: consumer of information.

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Speaker 4: What is the biggest security threat to the United States

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Speaker 4: right now in your view?

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Speaker 3: So I would in the terrorism context, I would say

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Speaker 3: the threat of foreign terrorism has re emerged with a

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Speaker 3: greater level of significance, and the threat of domestic violent

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Speaker 3: extremists individuals or loose affiliations of individuals who are radicalized

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Speaker 3: to violence because of ideologies of hate which are only increasing,

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Speaker 3: especially after the October seventh terrorist attacks against Israel, of

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Speaker 3: anti government sentiments, false narratives, other narratives propagated on.

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Speaker 4: But you feel better about our homeland security today than

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Speaker 4: you did ten years ago or twenty years ago, you think,

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Speaker 4: I do?

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Speaker 3: I think the Department and the Homeland Security Prize writ

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Speaker 3: large has matured and advanced tremendously.

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Speaker 4: And today who are the best at cyber terrorism? Is

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Speaker 4: it China? North Korea? Who do you think has the

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Speaker 4: greatest capabilities of doing damage to our country. In terms

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Speaker 4: of foreign countries through cyber.

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Speaker 3: I would say there are four China, Russia, Iran, and

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Speaker 3: North Korea, okay.

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Speaker 4: And in our country you can go if you're really

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Speaker 4: good at cyber or something like that, you can go

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Speaker 4: work for a venture firm, make lots of money and

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Speaker 4: so forth. If you go work in the US government,

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Speaker 4: you're not going to get paid as much. So is

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Speaker 4: the US government able to get really top flight cyber

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Speaker 4: people who can compete with the people from overseas, or

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Speaker 4: do we not have the best people in our government

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Speaker 4: working on these problems because we can't pay them enough.

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Speaker 3: We have the best people in the government, and there

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Speaker 3: are the best people in the private sector as well.

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Speaker 3: You raise an issue where we had a debate internally

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Speaker 3: to draw to attract the best cyber talent, should we

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Speaker 3: increase the salaries of those individuals to be able to

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Speaker 3: better compete. We of course cannot close the divide, but

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Speaker 3: we could shrink it and come out. And so I

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Speaker 3: lost this debate because we did increase the salaries. And

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Speaker 3: my position is very difficult for me to stand in

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Speaker 3: front of a group of border patrol agents that risk

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Speaker 3: their lives every day, risk their lives every day and

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Speaker 3: say I've got to pay cyber talent. I got to

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Speaker 3: kick up their salary a little bit to come to

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Speaker 3: work for the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: Because I will tell you.

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Speaker 3: The compensation in public service is different than a material compensation.

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Speaker 3: So there are your sense of fulfillment, and there is

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Speaker 3: a commitment to service. And if one does not feel

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Speaker 3: that that is enough, then then one should choose otherwise.

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Speaker 1: So I disagreed with the plus.

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Speaker 4: Up but didn't get done.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it got done.

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Speaker 4: It got done. So now we're paying people five percent more.

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Speaker 1: We're paying people a little bit more. And we look

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Speaker 1: in AI talent.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we have an AI recruiting effort underway, and I've

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Speaker 3: hit the road in recruiting. Uh you know data scientists

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Speaker 3: and the like. And I don't talk to them about

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Speaker 3: the salary. I talk to them about what it means.

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Speaker 4: Well, are you using AI now already to kind of help?

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Speaker 1: We are, We are, and our department is leading in

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Speaker 1: the use.

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Speaker 4: And you give us any examples without violating now security

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Speaker 4: about how AI is helping.

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Speaker 3: So let me let me let me share with you

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Speaker 3: one example of how it has demonstrated its capacity for

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Speaker 3: good as well as otherwise. And then I'll share with

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Speaker 3: you a couple pilots that we have going on. We

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Speaker 3: fight online child sexual exploitation and abuse. Eighty million images disseminated.

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Speaker 1: Worldwide last year.

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Speaker 3: I don't think people understand the extent of the problem.

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Speaker 3: We used AI to take a photograph of a young

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Speaker 3: girl who disappeared at the age of about seven, and

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Speaker 3: we used AI to extrapolate what that young girl would

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Speaker 3: look like now ten years later.

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Speaker 1: Ten years later.

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Speaker 3: Our ability to make that extrapolation using AI was so

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Speaker 3: effective that our law enforcement officers were able to identify

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Speaker 3: that seventeen year old, find her and rescue her.

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Speaker 1: Remarkable off let me flip, Let me flip it.

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Speaker 3: We then see AI being used to generate an image

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Speaker 3: of a child that doesn't exist, or a child that

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Speaker 3: does exist, and depict that child real or artificial, depict

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Speaker 3: that child being sexually exploited, and it causes our law

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Speaker 3: enforcement officers to devote resources on a decoy or errant mission.

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Speaker 3: And so it's potential for good and it's potential for

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Speaker 3: harm or real.

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Speaker 4: Oh, can you tell what I'll look like in five

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Speaker 4: or ten years?

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Speaker 1: You will not have changed one bit.

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Speaker 4: Really wow, I like that artificial intelligence. So let's talk

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Speaker 4: about your background. You don't come to the cabinet with

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Speaker 4: this conventional background of many people who have this position.

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Speaker 4: So where were you born?

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Speaker 1: I was born in Havana, Cuba.

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Speaker 4: Really and what age did you lead?

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Speaker 3: My parents brought my sister and me here to the

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Speaker 3: United States as political refugees when I was about one.

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Speaker 4: And did they come in I legally or illegally?

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Speaker 1: They came in illegally. My father.

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Speaker 3: Was a bit prescient. Although we didn't leave early, but

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Speaker 3: we left early enough.

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Speaker 4: So there isn't that big a Cuban or wasn't that

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Speaker 4: big a Cuban Jewish community. But your mother and father

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00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 4: were both Jewish. Her father was Sephardic, yes, and his

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00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: ancestors came from.

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Speaker 1: His father was from Turkey, his mother from Poland.

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Speaker 4: And your mother was Ashkenazi Jewish.

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Speaker 3: My mother fled Romania to France, France to Cuba late.

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Speaker 3: Her father lost eight brothers and other family in the

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Speaker 3: concentration camps. They left so late they couldn't get to

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Speaker 3: his and our policies at that time were not as

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Speaker 3: welcoming as one would have hoped. At a time of

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Speaker 3: great human distress.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So they came to the United States legally? Where

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Speaker 4: did they come?

448
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 3: So we arrived in Miami and we lived in Miami

449
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 3: until my father found a better work opportunity in Los Angeles, California.

450
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 4: You were growing up in Los Angeles.

451
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: I grew up for most in Los Angeles.

452
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 4: And you speak Spanish fluently.

453
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 3: I speak at my grammar is not something that I

454
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: take great pride in.

455
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 4: Okay, So where did you go to high school?

456
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: I went to Beverly Hills High School.

457
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 4: Beverly Hills High School with a lot of movie stars

458
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 4: kids and things like that.

459
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting that you would you consider Jack

460
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: Abramoff a movie star. I don't remember any movie stars.

461
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: You know, when you hear probably when everyone hears Beverly

462
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: Hills High School, they think.

463
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: You know the Clampett family.

464
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: There were four elementary schools that fed into the high school.

465
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 3: Two were tended to be of a more affluent community,

466
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 3: and the other two were quite frankly modest. I grew

467
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: up in a lower middle class the middle class home,

468
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: never wanting for anything, an incredibly close family.

469
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: You have siblings.

470
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: I have three siblings and they're all alive. They're all

471
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: alive in Los Angeles, California.

472
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 4: And are they interested in homeland security or not so much?

473
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: They are probably recent devotees.

474
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 4: So where did you go to Where did you go

475
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 4: to college?

476
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: I went to University of California at Berkeley.

477
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: Okay, that's a pretty good school. So how did you

478
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 4: do there?

479
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: I did pretty well?

480
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 4: And did you say I want to be a Homeland

481
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: security secretary someday?

482
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: I don't think I've had that level of hubris any

483
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: time in my life.

484
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: Okay, So you graduate mayor Then you went to law

485
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 4: school in Los ange Loyal Law School. Loyola is a

486
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 4: Catholic school. You're a Jewish, so they have a lot

487
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 4: of people are Jewish there. I presume right, it was

488
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 4: a mixed student body. Okay, all right, So you graduated

489
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: from law school and what did you do?

490
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: I went into a law firm. I wanted to go

491
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: into public service. This country has given my family everything,

492
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: and I very much wanted to give back. I wanted

493
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 3: to go into public service, and I had my eyes

494
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: on the United States Attorney's Office in Los Angeles. They

495
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: required three years of experience, and so I gained three

496
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: years of experience in a private law firm and then

497
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: went into the US Attorney's office.

498
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: Okay, and you were a litigator.

499
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 3: I was a federal prosecutor in the practice litigator.

500
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 4: So you went in as a federal prosecutor, and you

501
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 4: were an assistant US attorney in Los Angeles.

502
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: For eight and a half years, specializing in sophisticated fraud cases.

503
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 4: Did any of your people ever get off when you

504
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 4: took on the trial or they were convicted?

505
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: Everybody? One individual?

506
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: We ended up resolving the case after a adverse verdict

507
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 3: in a case that was quasi criminal. One doesn't suffer

508
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: an adverse verdict and get a chance to retry a

509
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: case in a criminal obviously double jeopardy. But this was

510
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: a quasi forfeiture case. In the first trial, the jury

511
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: voted to for the defendant. The judge actually issued a verdict,

512
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 3: not a ruling. Notwithstanding the verdict, felt that the jury

513
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: had aired gravely.

514
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: We took it to trial again.

515
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 4: Okay, and so pretty well, so you became the US attorney.

516
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let me let me share something with you.

517
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: When I became the US attorney at the age of

518
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: thirty eight, Yes, yeah, I think I might have been

519
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: ultimately confirmed at thirty nine. But when I was the

520
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: U S Attorney, I communicated to all of the supervisors

521
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 3: in law enforcement that during my tenure the acquittal rate

522
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: would go up. And I received a standing ovation, And

523
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: I'll share with you why. And Jamie knows this as

524
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: the former Deputy Attorney General. Law enforcement will never take

525
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 3: issue with an adverse verdict if one took a tough

526
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 3: case to trial and one worked one hundred percent and

527
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: invested everything one could in reaching a just outcome. But

528
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: what law enforcement will criticize is the prosecutor who's hesitant

529
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 3: to take a tough case to trial even though it's

530
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: the it's a just and righteous case. And sometimes you

531
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: take tough cases and the jury does the right thing.

532
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: And sometimes you know, they say when the play is

533
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: cast in Hell, the actors aren't angels. We have tough witnesses.

534
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 3: Some they come with their own baggage. I could tell

535
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: a story that will make everybody in this room quake

536
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: about an acquittal. You know, we had it one case

537
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: where the defendant won. Two defendants won, the United States

538
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: Marshals and the guards in the detention center, the warden

539
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: and the United States Marshal during trial communicated to me

540
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 3: a deep concern if this individual was not convicted, because

541
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 3: the guards and the marshals who have seen everything, said

542
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 3: that they around this individual. They felt they were around

543
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: what the warden said is Lucifer. There was something about

544
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: this individual. That case rested on a very difficult witness

545
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: who was a drug user and the like, and the

546
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: jury just couldn't do it, and they just felt they

547
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: couldn't rely on this one witness, not exclusively, but predominantly

548
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: in finding beyond a simple doubt. And that individual who

549
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: was accused of stealing drugs from drug dealers and gratuitously

550
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: setting one of them on fire to their death and

551
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: chopping the other one up gratuitously, that individual acquitted law enforcement.

552
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: We took it to trial. I wasn't a trial er,

553
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: but we took it to trial. I was on that

554
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: case intensely. They they thanked us for doing everything that

555
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: we could, just as that investigator had done everything he could.

556
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: But the person got off. The person got off, And

557
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 4: what happened to the person don't know, don't maybe ran

558
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 4: for Congress or something. No, no, so, did you ever

559
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 4: convict anybody that you thought shouldn't have been conded, Oh

560
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 4: my gosh, absolutely not everybody you put it never.

561
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: Never.

562
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: This is a matter of ethics, kays, a matter of integrity.

563
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: Never can one have a sentilla of doubt with respect

564
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: to the guilt of the individual whites process.

565
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 4: Right, so us attorney and then you finished that and

566
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 4: you go back to the practice of law. Yes, it

567
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 4: went to O'Melveny, o'melvinie and Myers in Los Angeles. Right,

568
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 4: So you got involved in the Did you get involved

569
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 4: in the campaign when Barack Obama was running for president?

570
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 4: Were you involved in his campaign anyway? I was okay.

571
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 4: So you ultimately get involved in the transition with Barack Obama, yep.

572
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 3: I led the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice transition.

573
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 4: To and you took a position in the Obama administration.

574
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 4: Initially what was your position?

575
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: The position was the Director of US Citizenship and Immigration Services,

576
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 3: an agency within the department that administers the legal legal

577
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: immigration site. Right.

578
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 4: And then after that you got promoted to be the

579
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: Deputy Homeland Security Secretary under Janet Napolitano. Yes, okay, And

580
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 4: so that didn't convince you that this is a complicated

581
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: area and you shouldn't want to come back as secretary,

582
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 4: or that.

583
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: I am complicated, difficult, challenging, and extraordinarily full fright.

584
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 4: So you go back after the President Obama Leave's office,

585
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: you go back, you join help Wilma Hill Hail, and

586
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 4: you're in what's city in here in Washington? Okay, so

587
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 4: you're a partner there. How did you get connected to

588
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 4: the Biden administration? Did they remember you from the Obama

589
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 4: administration or they did They just called you up and said,

590
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 4: guess what, we liked you as deputy, Now you can

591
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 4: be the secretary.

592
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it was in that way, but I was.

593
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: Extraordinarily proud to be contacted by the incoming president, the

594
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: president elect, to be considered.

595
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 4: And did your family say we're making a lot of

596
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 4: money here your way up here in compensation and you're

597
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 4: going to go down here again? And that was a factor. No,

598
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: you didn't care, Okay, didn't he wouldn't be. It is

599
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 4: what it is, what it is, Okay, all right? So

600
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 4: what was your confirmation like? Was that unanimous or.

601
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: Oh? I wouldn't say it was unanimous.

602
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 3: I will tell you that I was confirmed unanimously twice

603
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: until I touched immigration. I was confirmed unanimously to be

604
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 3: the Director of US Citizenship and Immigration Services, and after

605
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: that I did not enjoy too easy confirmation proceedings. My

606
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: confirmation as as Secretary was along party lines, and when

607
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 3: you do that when you're not entirely There were a

608
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 3: few Republicans in the United States Senate who voted to

609
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 3: confirm me, well predominantly.

610
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 4: It kind of confirmation you have to pay yourself for

611
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 4: the legal services or getting confirmed, if you have to

612
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 4: pay accounting fees or how do you get confirmed without

613
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 4: having to spend a lot of money on legal or

614
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: accounting things to fill out forms.

615
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: I filling them out oneself.

616
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 4: Oh, okay, save money that way, Okay, I didn't spend

617
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 4: any money, all right. So let's talk about the Department

618
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 4: of Homeland Security. How many people work at the Department

619
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 4: of Homeland Security.

620
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 3: About two hundred and sixty thousand. Where are they third

621
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: largest department in the federal government.

622
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 4: And are they working remotely?

623
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: Both some remote and some in person and our frontline

624
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: personnel don't have the option of working remotely.

625
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 4: What are the main parts of it? I know you

626
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 4: have certain parts that were put together out of Treasury

627
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 4: Department other things. What are your main divisions?

628
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 3: I don't think people really understand the expanse of our

629
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 3: remit of our mission in the immigration area and in

630
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: others US Customs and Border Protection. Why do I say others,

631
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: Trade and travel, TSA, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Citizenship

632
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: and Immigration Services, Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency FEMA, United

633
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: States Secret Service? Those are seven United States Coastguard the eighth.

634
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 3: The expanse of our portfolio is extraordinary, from online child

635
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 3: sexual exploitation and abuse, crimes of exploitation, human trafficking, to

636
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 3: facilitating lawful trade and travel, to search and rescue and

637
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 3: security in the Arctic and the Indo Pacific, to addressing

638
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: the flooding yesterday and today in Houston, Texas, where we

639
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: have a number of fatalities, and the frequency and gravity

640
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 3: of extreme weather events is only growing, the cyber attacks

641
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 3: from China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, it's extraordinary.

642
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 4: You ever get a weekend off, you don't have to

643
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 4: worry about some crisis somewhere.

644
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: I take My goal is to take half a Saturday.

645
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,479
Speaker 4: Half a Saturday? Okay? And how do you stay in shape?

646
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 4: Are you an exerciser or a warrior?

647
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: That's a.

648
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: You know, let me tell you if worry sheds weight,

649
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: I just appear.

650
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 4: I work out and so can you go to a

651
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: restaurant and knocks off, and you go to Washington a

652
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 4: restaurant in Washington without people giving you tips or something

653
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: about some homeland security violation somewhere?

654
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: Do you mean they give and I walk into a

655
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: restaurant without someone commending us for the extraordinary work we do?

656
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 4: Does that happen a lot?

657
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 3: Keep keeping the American people safe and secure. I am

658
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: approached from time to time and other times not.

659
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: What's the biggest complaint you get about TSA agents?

660
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: Let me let me let me say this.

661
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: Ten years ago, ten years ago, the concern was am

662
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: I going to ten plus years ago? Am I going

663
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: to board my flight and reach my destination safely? That

664
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 3: was the concern. Am I going to reach my destination safely?

665
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 4: Now?

666
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: The concern is how fascile will my travel experience be?

667
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: How long will I need to wait in line? We

668
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: have moved a lot.

669
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 4: But sometimes people get through the TSA system. They get

670
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 4: on the plane and they're drunk, or they hit a

671
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 4: flight attendant, and then I never read about their going

672
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 4: to jail. They just seem to kind of go away

673
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 4: what are you been doing about that?

674
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: David? I share your perspective.

675
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: I remember as an assistant United States attorney, anyone messed

676
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: around in a plane up in the air, they were

677
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 3: prosecuted was a federal defense.

678
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: The level of disruption.

679
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 3: In a post COVID world is unprecedented in scope and scale,

680
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: and I actually believe that the enforcement regime is not

681
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: active enough.

682
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 4: Okay, So you share my view, I do. Okay, So

683
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 4: if you're if you if President Biden is re elected,

684
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 4: would you continue to serve in this position?

685
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 3: I will tell you that I believe in the president,

686
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: and I believe in his prerogative to decide who his cabinet.

687
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 4: All right, if the members are the president is not

688
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 4: re elected, and your best friend and your worst enemy

689
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 4: approached you and they said they were offered the job,

690
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 4: who would you recommend take it? Your best friend or

691
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 4: your worst enemy?

692
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely? My I don't have enemies.

693
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 3: I would absolutely ask my best friend to take the job.

694
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: And if I had an enemy, I would consider them unqualified.

695
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 4: Okay, because of your enemy?

696
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: Right?

697
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 4: Okay, So today people are worried about the immigrants coming

698
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 4: in illegally, But how many illegal immigrants do you think

699
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 4: we have in the country now, and once somebody is

700
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 4: in the country illegally, what percentage actually ever get sent out.

701
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: So we have.

702
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 3: Thus far this fiscal year removed or returned more individuals

703
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 3: than any administration I think for at least ten years.

704
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 3: So we're removing and returning more people than any administration,

705
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 3: including the immediately preceding administration. When we took office, I

706
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 3: believe the accounting was approximately eleven point four million undocumented

707
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: people in the United States.

708
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: We don't have an.

709
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 3: Update to that number now, but it's been millions and

710
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 3: millions because our system has been broken for decades.

711
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 4: Now, do you are you a responsible for overseeing domestic

712
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 4: terrorism too or dealing with that?

713
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: We deal with the domestic.

714
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: Violent extremism, which is the form of domestic terrorism that

715
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: we're most focused on.

716
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: We deal with it. We deal with it.

717
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: With our partners across the federal enterprise, the FBI intensely.

718
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 4: So on the Secret Service. Recently, I think candidate running

719
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 4: for president, Robert Kennedy's father was assassinated. They didn't have

720
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 4: Secret Service protection. Then he has asked for Secret Service protection,

721
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 4: hasn't received that. Who makes a decisional who gets Secret

722
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 4: Service protection? When you're running for president, I do.

723
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 3: And what we do is we have set up a process.

724
00:44:54,800 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: We have a defined criteria and the process. The process

725
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 3: provides for a bipartisan group of congressional leaders to make

726
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 3: recommendations to me after they have analyzed the factors that

727
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 3: we have established. This is a protocol that was established

728
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 3: prior to the Trump administration, and so we resuscitated it.

729
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: It is a political it is bipartisan, and the factors

730
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: are apolitical. And I have followed in each each instance

731
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 3: the recommendation of the bipartisan group. There has been no

732
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 3: light between or amongst us.

733
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 4: Well, when I worked in the White House one hundred

734
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 4: years ago or so, it was a president and the

735
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 4: vice president got secrets arty protection.

736
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: As they do now.

737
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 4: But it seems as if a lot of White House

738
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 4: aids and other people have secret chartst protection. It seems

739
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 4: like it's proliferated. I mean, how do you decide who

740
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 4: gets it, if you're a White House aid or not.

741
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 3: It is based on a threat assessment, and very sadly,

742
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 3: the threat environment in which we are living is more

743
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 3: acute than it was when you had the privilege, when

744
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: you had the privilege of serving. Look we are now

745
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: in a world where a former government official, not of

746
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: course the former president, but a former government official is

747
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 3: receiving protection because of the threat landscape.

748
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 4: What about baseball owners that they need secret ary protection?

749
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 4: Ever thought about that?

750
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 3: You know, if I recall my reading of the standings

751
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: circa this morning, you are safe and secure since you're

752
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 3: resting in first place.

753
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: Yes, I hope so. But what happens to go south?

754
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 4: We'll see, Okay, So.

755
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 3: We'll talk again, either before or after we talk about

756
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: TikTok okay.

757
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 4: So on the whole people who are watching that, you

758
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 4: would like to say to them that they are safer

759
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 4: today in the United States than they were ten or

760
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 4: twenty or thirty years ago, but we still have big risks.

761
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: I would say the following. I would say, we are

762
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 3: safer today than we were yesterday. The threat landscape is

763
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: heightened and everyone needs to be vigilant because what we

764
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 3: have observed. If one takes a look at the domestic

765
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 3: violence that has occurred, whether it is the tragic shooting

766
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 3: in Buffalo, New York, in the supermarket, whether it is

767
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 3: the July fourth parade in a suburb of Chicago, whether

768
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 3: it is Uvaldi Texas. What we have learned is that

769
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: the individuals, the assailants were exhibiting signs of radicalization to

770
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 3: violence before they committed their heinous acts. And what we

771
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: see something say something campaign that Secretary of Nepolitano developed. Really,

772
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 3: I think to the general public speaks of the abandoned

773
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: backpack at a bus stop or in the airport, it

774
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily speak to the individual who is exhibiting signs

775
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 3: that should cause us all to worry. And so the

776
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 3: question is, and what we are building is an architecture

777
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 3: where people understand what the ndisha are and know that

778
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: what help they can call, because it's not to call

779
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 3: the accountability regime, law enforcement because nothing has occurred yet,

780
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: but to call a trusted source, whether it is a teacher,

781
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: a faith leader, a mental health practitioner, to say, look,

782
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 3: this individual is coming to school in a hazmat suit,

783
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: or this individual has withdrawn from all social interaction and

784
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: is communicating messages that speak of an interest in committing

785
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: a violent act.

786
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: Who do I call?

787
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 3: What outreach do I make to prevent something from materializing?

788
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 4: Sometimes when you see people who do these mass shootings,

789
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 4: they go into their social media and they say Oh,

790
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 4: they said some crazy things two days ago or so forth.

791
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 4: But you don't have the resource or capability to look

792
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 4: at all crazy things on social media to figure out

793
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 4: who's my going to do something crazy? Right?

794
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: That is correct?

795
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: But if they are publishing that in a so that

796
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 3: others can see it, what do others do? And that's

797
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 3: the muscle that we need to build in this country,

798
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 3: how to come to help someone and prevent something from happening.

799
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: So I would say we're safer. The threat landscape is

800
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: heightened and everyone needs to be vigilant. Homeland security is

801
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 3: an all in proposition.

802
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 4: I suppose a member of Congress calls you and says,

803
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 4: I have a security problem in my district and I'd

804
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 4: like you to look into it. And there's a challenge.

805
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 4: This person voted to impeach you. What would be your reaction.

806
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: The political position of an individual is irrelevant to a security.

807
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 4: Analysis, so it doesn't affect you.

808
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not in the least.

809
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 4: You don't remember the names and people that voted against you.

810
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: I guess right, I don't have that good a memory.

811
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: Let me be clearer that I have some very productive

812
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 3: relationships and good relationships with some of the people who

813
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 3: voted to impeach me.

814
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 4: But you don't vote it against them.

815
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: You know what I don't. I'm not a person that

816
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 3: holds things against people. I live my life to the

817
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,479
Speaker 3: best of my abilities in a way that would make

818
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 3: me my parents another's proud. And then others are going

819
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 3: to live their lives and make their decisions.

820
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 4: Now, the first Homeland Security secretary was a big burly man,

821
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 4: former governor of Pennsylvania. You're not a great man. You're

822
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 4: not a big burly man. So you're shorter, I've noticed

823
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 4: than me. Even so, when people see you and they

824
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 4: be very interested to see where this is going. So

825
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 4: when people meet you for the first time and they say,

826
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 4: I thought I was going to be big. He's in

827
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 4: charge of Homeland Security, but he's diminutive. Is that No,

828
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 4: that's not about a problem.

829
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: Not for me.

830
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: But let me, let me, let me so I have

831
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 3: to share a story with you. But before I do,

832
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 3: let me you mentioned Secretary Ridge, a great, a great American.

833
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: When his portrait was unveiled at the then headquarters, he said,

834
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 3: this is very very typical of Washington. First they paint

835
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 3: you in a corner, then they frame you. Then they

836
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: hang you out to dry. So I was as a

837
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: new assistant United States Attorney. I was dealing with a

838
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 3: defense lawyer and he had not met me, and he

839
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 3: apparently gathered from my voice that I was tall and big,

840
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 3: and so when he first met me in court at

841
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: a status hearing, he actually thought I was an impostor.

842
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 3: He did not believe I was who I was. But

843
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: then when the judge called the case, he realized I

844
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 3: actually was Alejandro Majorcis. He literally did not think I

845
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 3: was who I presented myself to be. The judge had

846
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 3: not met me before. The defense lawyer was about six

847
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 3: foot five and I am almost the inverse little taller

848
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 3: than that. And the judge looked at me and looked

849
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 3: at him and said, you know, Majorcus, you should be

850
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 3: really happy we don't settle this case the old fashioned way.

851
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 4: So to be very serious, I really want to thank

852
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 4: you for your service to the country in many different positions.

853
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 4: I would not be as magnanimous as you. If people

854
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 4: were voting to impeach me, I probably would have their

855
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 4: names memorized. But thank you for what you've done for

856
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 4: the country, and thanks for being a very good sport today. Okay,

857
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 4: thank you for having me. Thank you, Thank you, David.

858
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 4: Thank gift. I have a gift for you. Okay. That

859
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 4: was Bloomberg Television's peer to peer host David Rubinstein sitting

860
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 4: down at the Economic Club of Washington with Homeland Security

861
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 4: Secretary Alejandro majorc Is for a wide, raging conversation