WEBVTT - Episode 7: Table Top Games 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.720 Hello, and welcome to My deficit. I am one of 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.520 your hosts, Dan Fernandez, and sitting across from me as 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:20.240 always is my co host. Anyway, how's it going, how 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.720 are you doing? Doing good? Filling a freshened up ready 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.840 to go rage to talk about tabletop This is a 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.280 fun subject. There's so many This is going to be 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.960 very interesting episode. I mean all our episodes are interesting, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:37.920 but I like that it's going to have turns and twists, betrayal, 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:43.879 u so death, resurrection, and then we wrap it up 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.200 with a fun talk with our guest or good friend, 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.760 Emma five who you know. You can watch your playing 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.920 tabletop games almost yeah, every week on hyper ADG where 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.000 you and I. You and I played a live table 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.120 top game for that was a Valiant that's a Valiant comics. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:01.360 We if you and I were on a show, and 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.760 we also, yeah, Valiant banquished pretty cool because we were 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.720 made into comic book characters and we actually this is 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.880 just some notificent lore. If you and I ended up 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.760 in a Valiant comic. Yeah, so that's certain that I 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.440 sent to my grandparents. Remember these I used to read, 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.800 I'm in it, I'm in it, I'm in it. So 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:24.360 today we are talking about table top games, which is 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.119 very broad subject iffy that we chose. Oh yeah, it's 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.040 super broad and and really this is a good time 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.399 to kind of like really nail this idea of the 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.280 show and the future of it, because I know on 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.160 past episodes people have been left wanting more and why 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.320 we didn't cover this or something we might have missed, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.240 And really, I think our first past and a lot 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.480 of these subjects are going to be very general and 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.360 then we jump in, we zero in, like this is 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.880 a tabletop episode, but I already have a chess episode plan. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:55.760 It's going to be all about chess. For all my 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.760 chess heads who are like yeah, you know, they just like, yeah, 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:00.600 did you get a check? Bank? Know, I just heard 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.600 that they're going to talk about chess, and I do. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.720 I met a professional chess player, and I'm going to 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.880 have her on yes, her, which which I don't know 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.240 this might be just catastrophizes because I saw it on 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.280 like the front page read it, but apparently that's like 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.880 a big deal, like female chess players and in the 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.400 ins and outs and like the separation of genders and chess, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.040 which we can talk about with her at that time. 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.120 But this is just a general kind of scope of 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.040 tabletop just to talk about it, talk about some fun 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.840 stories that happen within it, and just even you know, 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.600 if you don't even know what people are saying when 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:40.640 they talk about tabletop or when you see Will Wheaton YouTube. Yes, 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.080 I mean you literally had a game. It's called tabletop games. Yeah, alright, 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.600 show um. Yeah, so tabletop games are literally games that 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.960 are played on a table or a flat surface, such 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.200 as board games, card games, dice games, miniature war games, 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.639 which we are going to cover heavily tile based games. 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.440 So and a lot of these can be categor arises 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.760 like adventure, paper and pencil games. Role playing games, which 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.040 we're going to get into is probably the most famous 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.520 role playing game ever. Yeah, and and pretty much yeah, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.000 that's that's probably where we're gonna zero in the most, 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.160 mostly because as of now, tabletop games are synonymous with 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.000 RPGs and games with heavy RPG elements, which is role 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.239 playing games. But you know there are like other games 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.600 like Katan. You know, Dominion was the game I was 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.519 thinking of Dominion, Yes, yes, to cut you off, You're 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.520 deep into moving on, and I was like, I'm not not. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.120 It's Okay, Yeah, we'll get into war games, which are 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:44.120 kind of my favorite, but let's talk about the history. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.880 Deep deep. We still don't have our sound. I know, 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:53.320 I look, I just like repeating deep dive. We'll just 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:57.640 clip that for next time. The earliest it looks like 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.720 known tabletop game was a series of forty nine small 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.760 carved painted stones that were actually found at the five 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:12.720 thousand year old I think this is Yuk Burial Mound 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.479 in southeast Turkey. Um and those are the earliest gaming 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.960 pieces ever found. Yeah, and similar pieces have been found 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.200 in Syria and Iraq and seemed to point to a 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.320 board games originating in the Fertile Crescent and other early origin. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.120 Dice games were created by painting a single side of 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.520 a flat stick. These sticks would be tossed in unison 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.720 in the amount of painted side showing would be your 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.560 role Mesopotamian dice were made from a variation of materials 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.040 including carved knuckle bones, would painted stones, and turtle show. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.680 You know what this kind of adjacent to this reminds 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:49.440 me of cornhole? Do you know the history? Of course, 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.800 this is according at least to my ex who religiously 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.480 so he's from He's from Ohio, which that when dating him, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.120 I was exposed to cornhole. I didn't know. I up 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:01.599 in southern California. I don't know if it was a 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.880 big thing or not. Um, but I wasn't aware of it. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.000 And then they would like, literally the kids in his 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.840 town would make their own corn holes and paint them. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.800 That sounds so bad. So if you don't know what 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.040 cornhole is, it's like it's like a flat surface, um 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.280 ramp that has a hole in it that you then 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.080 toss bean bags into. And what my ex told me 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:22.960 was that the history of it is that they used 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:28.279 to throw corn cobs into our houses. I don't know, 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:30.240 we might need our researcher to look into that, but 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.520 that's the history. I like that history though. I think 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:35.640 I think I'm down with the corn cob and to 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.360 an out house. Yeah yeah, No. I learned cornhole from 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.839 the white improv community that I'm a part of out 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.560 here because yeah, grow I don't know about you, but 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.280 growing up and sow our big thing was like, uh, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:56.400 what was our big nothing? Pong beer? Yeah yeah, that's 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.160 the big like party game I'm aware of, But cornhole 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.800 seems way more like a backyard barbecue. Throw a little 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:07.440 sack into a hole through a toilet bowl. But let's 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.520 jump down this timeline. So thanks to our researchers, we 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.919 have a brief time line of game history and it 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:18.200 starts in b C E with SENA. It's s A 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.200 N E T, which is either senate or Seney. I'm fancy, 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.719 so i'mnna call it say. It's discovered in the pre 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:29.000 Dynastic and First Dynasty burials of Egypt. Senate is believed 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.919 to be the world's oldest board game, meaning game of passing. 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.039 Seney consisted of a grid of thirty squares arranged in 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.159 three rows of tin and two sets of ponds, though 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.800 the exact rules are the source of much debate. A 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.200 copy of the game was found buried with Tuton common, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.960 which is funny because I feel like that's tabletop to 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.960 a t which is arguing over what the rules actually are. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.920 Yeah yet with him, yeah yeah, yeah, all of his 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.360 animals and I think like friends also that thing always 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.200 keep that yeah. Okay, So moving on the fourteen hundred 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.000 b C. We see dice. Actually, so Sophocles claimed that 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.800 Palamedes invented dice in about four and sure enough, they 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.800 found cubicle stones and clay dice during that period. But 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.280 in truth, it's possible that dice were actually developed independently 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.920 by many ancient cultures around the world. I believe that 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.600 did you know that alcohol was also developed independently around 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.720 major cultures? I took a history of This was in 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.280 my deep weep phase when I was in community college, 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.400 but I took it was Japanese, but I also took 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.400 like the history of Japan, and they were talking about 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:46.000 how Korean in Japan and almost every country found alcohol 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:47.480 on their own. So there had to be that one 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.640 weird guy and every culture who was like, let's taste 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:55.680 this rotten juice. It might also be I mean, I'm 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.840 sure someone will correct us, but I imagine also it's 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.520 just like their limited resources, where like if something did 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:02.640 go wrong or it was like fermented, it was like, 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.240 we don't have the resources to just throw this away. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.000 Now that sounds like a very educated guest. And then 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.760 and then eventually what ended up happening was that the 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.840 water supply was so bad that they just ended up 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.880 having to drink alcohol, which is something we should cover. 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.320 We should cover nerds getting drunk, well, well, we should 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.520 definitely cover um the science behind not even that. But 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.800 remember when everybody was making their own beer like like that, 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.200 I mean still yeah, people are real nerds about that. 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.480 Like I was like, oh man, I made my own beer. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:36.040 Micro Well, let's dip over to C for a game 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.920 that sounds kind of familiar. Snakes and Ladders. I love it. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.080 I wish they had kept that name. Snakes and Ladders 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.000 originated in India as a game based on morality, where 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.600 the progression up the board was to teach children about 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.679 good and evil, with climbing up ladders representing good and 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.400 sliding down snakes representing evil. During the British rule of India, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.640 the game made its way back to the Assures and 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.200 it was taken the US as Shoots and Ladders inte 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.199 by Milton Bradley. Should have been snakes. That's gentrification one 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.640 on one right there, Like all right, I'm gonna take 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.079 the snakes out, We're gonna add some shoots. We're gonna 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:16.400 move on to the first board game, Millionaire. This is 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.520 one of the most fascinating stories that we encountered coming 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:24.800 across this topic. In nine we got Monopoly and a 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.360 lot of people wrongly credit Charles Darrow as being the 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:33.280 soul designer. And what actually happened is Charles and his 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.960 wife Esther actually went in nineteen thirty two to the 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.920 home of his friend who was a Philadelphia businessman named 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.440 Charles Todd and his wife Olive. So he went over 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.240 to their place and they played a real state board 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.920 game that they had recently learned, and they became fascinated 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:56.520 by it, and Charles Todd his friend made the Daros 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.000 a set of their own, and then the other Charles, 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.360 so many Charles in this. Okay, So Charles Darrow, listen 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.040 this because this is where the sneaks. That sounds like 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.480 a character from Downton Abbey. By the way, Charles d Charles, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.480 Charles Daru, and I've made some board games for you. Todd. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.680 I gotta say, on paper sounds hello, whack uh. You 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.880 know it was like, hey, on paper sounds really whack. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:25.040 Like to be like, hey, you guys wanna play a 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.480 real estate board game. I'm like, na, son, let's bring 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.560 out the magic the gathering. Why are you bringing this trade? 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.680 Win was prohibition? Let me see if they were bored, 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.360 very good, quesne Um, Let me see if they were 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.920 bored with their lives and no, okay, listen, because this 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:46.120 Charles Darrow is sneaky as hell. So he asked Charles 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:50.160 Todd for like a list of the rules, and Charles 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.559 Todd was like, I've never made them. I guess I 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.160 should sit down and write them. So, in fact, the 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.480 rules to the game had been invented in Washington, d c. 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:06.480 And N three by Elizabeth Maggie. Wow, but she's often 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.120 forgotten in this story. She's the one that created the 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:15.920 rules for Monopoly. And Charles Darrow in his uh, I mean, 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.840 I guess he might be respected, but in his sneaky way, 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.440 he sold the version of the game to Parker Brothers 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.920 and it became a phenomenal success. And my girl, Elizabeth Maggie, 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.640 she was forgotten. That's just wild. But also I'm sure 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.240 there's it made him millions. It made him millions. Well 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.040 did you know that famous Amos, the black guy on 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.360 the actual cookie, doesn't own the cookie like you. He 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.520 was like, they just snapped a picture and we're like, you, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.280 well know, they paid him like a trash amount of 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.679 money and then made millions off of it. And then 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.680 he was on Shark Tank making his own cookies. Brand. 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.640 Did he get it? I think so you don't bring 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.000 famous amous on just to deny him, that would be 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.240 And to answer your que the prohibition era was from 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:08.080 ninety three, so that's why they Yeah, that's where this 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.680 came from. But um okay, So it looks like one 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.760 journalist after another asked him how he managed how Charles 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.920 Starrow managed to invent monopoly out of thin air, and 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.160 he said, it's a freak. That's what he told Germantown Bulletin, 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.880 Philadelphia paper, entirely unexpected, in illogical in quotes, that I 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.040 stole this idea from somebody else. I know. That's that's 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.760 so funny, Like this is a time before Twitter where 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.960 someone would just retweet that and be like, na, this 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.760 is a week explanation. He probably stole that from Elizabeth Maggie. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.400 But that's our I think you had a trivia on this, right, Yeah, Well, 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:50.560 is about monopoly in general. Basically, humanitarian groups sent escape 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.160 kits disguised as monopoly games to the Allied prisoner of 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.280 war during World War Two, which also says something nice 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.840 about the soldiers keeping them prison. It was like, all right, well, 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.360 we don't want to be monsters. Let's let him play Monopoly, 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.880 you know this game that like never ends. Yeah, like 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.400 that'll keep them occupied while we keep them prisoner. But 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.280 that was real cool. But you know, we're not here 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:18.120 to talk about your Monopoly sorries, your your bomb. Don't wait, daddies, 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.199 we're going to talk about you know, RPG. So, like 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.600 we're going to dip into the history of RPGs. So 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.720 the exact moment when the RPG was born as debatable, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.760 particularly as the hobby of war gaming, which was a 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.440 big influence on early role players, had been around in 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.880 some form in another for hundreds of years. However, the 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.640 first instance of what people today would recognize as a 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.560 modern RPG came into being with the development of the 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:45.640 tabletop game Dungeons and Dragons. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.040 Dungeons and Dragons nineteen seventy four. It actually came in 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:53.200 a brown box with a wood grain pattern. It was 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.400 ten dollars, which was a lot at the time. That's 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.920 about fifty dollars, so it was like the most expensive 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.199 tabletop game. It is still, I mean it's not if 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.240 you get your group to chip in, it's not super expensive, 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.679 but it is when you consider, like a DM needs 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.520 his DM guide, a Monster manual. The player needs players handbooks. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.280 I mean lots of people were not saying this is 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:15.440 the way to go, but a lot of people have 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.480 been downloading the pds of it. But really, like Magic 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.840 has been finding ways to where you can actually look 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.920 up your character sheet and download it for free from 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.800 their website. The startup cost is heavy if you're trying 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.440 to go all out, because you need the mats. The 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.400 mats the like it's like usually a two sided mat 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.560 where it's like hexagonal or cut I want to say cubic, 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.320 but it's not cubic. It's like uh squares, and you'll 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.240 have that that you need your small figures. Every player 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:43.840 needs to pick out a figure. Lots of times you 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.320 gotta buy the paint to paint that figure, but really 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.160 you could just do it without any of that, with 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.040 all your imagination or even for if you want to 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.040 be more forward thinking. There's a lot of apps and 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.560 programs you can use now where you can like digitally 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.240 have in your characters. You can have a digital map. 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.400 It's real cool. There's lots of ways to go about it, 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.640 but really all you need is a pen, pencil, paper, 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.040 your imagination, your imagination. Yeah, good improv skills, yes, anding. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.600 I think we should talk about miniatures just a little bit. 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.680 So those are essentially your game pieces. With a tabletop 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.520 war game, you often play with miniatures and you're moving 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.720 them across a battlefield based on a set of rules 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.080 and instructions. You're like making tactile choices, and you're you're 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.840 choosing the composition of your own army, and then you're 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.720 like fighting out over a tabletop and the miniatures are 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.560 often painted by hand, most likely by yourself, And I 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.720 feel like that's a whole other side, Like people have 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:49.040 made like a living by painting commissions for miniatures, and 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.560 a lot of people, I feel, take a lot of 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.720 pride and enjoyment in this actual aspect of the game. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.120 Like that's an entire part of a lot of these 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.520 war games. Yeah, but before we dip to deep in there, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.080 let's talk about Dungeons and Dragon. It was originally designed 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.480 by Gary guy GaX and Dave Arns. You both aren't 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.520 with us anymore, Thank you for everything you did, and 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.280 it was published in nineteen seventy four by Tactical Studies Rules, Inc. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.120 Then the game has been published by Wizard of the Coast, 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.840 which is a subsidiary of Hasbro, which is like the 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.760 you know, one of the main hubs of tabletop because 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.280 they also produced Magic the Gathering. Uh. And it was 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.040 derived from ministure of war games, as we said earlier, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.760 with a variation of chain Mail serving as the initial 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.960 rule system. D and d's publication is commonly recognized as 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.520 the beginning of modern role playing. As we said, as 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.400 a matter of fact, we're gonna say chain Mail was 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.160 the popular game that was like right before this one. Yeah, 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:45.080 so yeah. Chain Mail was medieval miniature of war game 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.600 created by Gary Guy GaX and Jeff Parent. Guy Gets 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.600 developed the core medieval system of the game by expanding 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.080 on rules authored by his fellow like Geneva Tactical Studies 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.680 Association member parent hobby shop owner with whom he had 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.080 become friendly. Guided Games released the first edition of chain 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.080 Mail in nineteen seventy one as its first minto war 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.240 game and one of its three debut products. So chain 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.119 Mail was a war game. Then from there they created 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.600 D and D and then it was all and then 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.679 from there they ruined children's minds with their demonic worships. 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.639 Dungeon and Dragons was accused of fostering demon worship and 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.920 a belief in witchcraft and magic, and by politicians and 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.960 moms and dads. Yeah, because there was a real this 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.320 was an air of like the devil scare, where like 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.199 you know, metal music was turning your kids to the 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.040 devil and they were trying to find like all these 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.240 different things to basically use fear to drive people. Uh 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:43.719 sound familiar anyway. Yeah, And my my family is very Catholic, 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.160 and I know that my aunt wouldn't let my cousin 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.960 read Harry Potter still doesn't. I don't know if to 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.800 visit the Wizarding World, but it's seen as witchcraft. Yeah, 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.720 that's actually why I never got into I got into 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.720 tabletop right around when I started working with Geek and Sundry. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.240 I did some Dungeons and Ragons a little bit before that, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.280 but that's when I really jumped into the world, which 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.000 is hard to you know, to avoid when you work 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.560 for the same company that produces tabletop. But yeah, when 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.800 I grew up, I went to a Catholic school, so 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.480 they were always like they said, we couldn't listen to 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.080 k rock because oh my god, I couldn't listen to 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.240 kiss FM if you had to listen to the oldies 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.159 radio okay or at one oh one, I wasn't allowed 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.320 to listen to I had to listen to Sinatra, and 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.399 I have a deep love for music from the nineteen 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.560 forties and fifties. Another thing that I couldn't listen watch 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:34.960 was The Exorcist until I was like out of the 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:39.000 house because of that. But yeah, well, let's talk about 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.720 the history of playing cards. For a symbol of international 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.600 harmony and cross cultural cooperation, look no further than the 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.560 nearest pack of cards. Playing cards in their present form 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.560 are the results of ideas and refinements from the last 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.320 eight countries and four comments over the course of twelve 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.679 hundred years. The concept and the technology to make the 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.880 paper they are printed on probably originally in China around 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.600 the end of the first millennium during the Tang dynasty. 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.000 Of the ninth century a d, a princess to Shang 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.280 is said to have played the leaf game. This is 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.399 probably a paper form of dominoes rather than true cards, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.520 But a hundred years later, the Emperor Mussuan is recorded 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.200 as shuffling and dealing the real thing. Yeah, and cards 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.359 actually didn't arrive until Europe until the mid fourteenth century um, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.560 either in Islamic Spain or as a result of trade 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:32.360 between the Mamlocks man Luke's man Lukes of Egypt and Italy. 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.119 So by this time they were already in something like 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.800 their current form that we have today. Uh So it's 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.199 reasonable to assume that the basic mechanics of cards that 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.480 we still use, like the four suit system and royalty, 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.119 and perhaps even like the concept of like taking tricks 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.200 and stuff, were either established in India or the Middle East. 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.280 But yeah, that it wasn't long before cards were influenced 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.200 also by tabletop games like D and D, which created, 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.960 uh the cardboard crack game known as Magic, the Gathering 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.920 your Home and Love. Oh my gosh, I've spent so 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.439 much money. I think we talked about But Mark ellis 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.479 who was on our spoiler review for Infinity War, so 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.040 I'm not kidding. If he at his mom's house, he 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.520 still has all of his magic the gathering packs, some 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.520 of them are worse three thousand dollars three thousand and 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.840 five thousand dollars for some of his stuff that he has. Yeah, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.960 so just to get some magic was actually created sooner 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.879 than we actually, I think so Magic was first published 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.240 in by Wizards of the Coast. Magic was the first 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.920 trading card game created, and it continues to thrive, with 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.040 approximately twenty million players as of two thousand and fifteen. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.040 Magic can be played by two or more players in 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.480 various formats, which fall into two categories, constructed and limited. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.000 Limited formats include players building a deck spontaneously out of 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.240 a pool of random cards, with a minimum deck size 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.919 of forty cards, and constructed players created decks from cards 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.280 they own, usually sixty cards, with no more than four 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.200 of any given Magic card. Magic has played in person 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.720 with printed car or using a deck of virtual cards, 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.639 through the Internet based Magic the Gathering Online, or on 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.840 smartphone or tablet, or through other programs because Magic has 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.560 spun off and done other games like Magic Arena, Magic Origins, 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.600 and Uh. But Magic the Gathering Online is the closest 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.560 online proxy to the actual game because it's just been 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.840 going on for so long and the cars actually hold 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.960 value the same way. I didn't really get into Magic. 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:30.879 I was extremely into Pokemon and Dragon ball Z, the 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.960 trading card games. Uh. And I know someone else who's 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:39.560 also super into those anime games, Our guest and the 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.440 five and she's going to be joining us right after 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:50.800 the break, and we are back, and we are joined 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.440 here with our good friend. You've seen her on Collider, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.439 on hyper RPG. She is a broadcaster, a podcast host, 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:04.720 a entertainer of all sorts, our friend m F five. Thanks, yeah, 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.919 thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for popping by. You know, 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:09.879 this is a topic that's very near and dear to 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:14.320 my heart. So are you literally playing an RPG earlier? Yesterday? 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.800 You were? I was playing a couple yesterday. I was 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.960 not playing an RPG earlier. I was recording some content 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.200 that revolves around the series My heir Academia because I'm 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.520 as well. But yes, I I wasn't. I was doing 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:34.760 too RPGs yesterday, a digimon RPG and also a Jeopardy RPG. 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.320