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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump is retruthing videos of

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Speaker 1: George Soros being killed.

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Speaker 2: We have a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Democratic poster and Biden White House insider John Delavalpi. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk to us about why gen z is more political

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Speaker 1: than past generations, and then we'll talk to CNN's Joan

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Speaker 1: Biskubic about her new book Nine Black Robes.

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Speaker 2: And her explosive reporting on the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: But first we have legendary democratic strategist James Carvel. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Fast Politics. Fan favorite James Carvel.

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Speaker 3: No, thank you, it's good to be back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And now we need to talk about the librides me

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Speaker 1: and you texted me this and it's just such an

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Speaker 1: incredible story, So talk to me about this.

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Speaker 2: What's happening in Texas' libraries.

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Speaker 4: Well warned books and they described in Loano, Texas. One

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Speaker 4: wrote it would be better to close the library and

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Speaker 4: put Pawn back in a kid section among the books

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Speaker 4: her group deems pawn, Larry the farding reprecan is so noisy, and.

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Speaker 3: My favorite Gary the Goose and his gas on the loose.

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Speaker 4: When they came after gay people, I didn't say anything because, well,

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Speaker 4: I'm not gay. And then he came after black people,

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Speaker 4: and I didn't say anything because I'm not black. Not

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Speaker 4: a covenant are people who fought Well, it's time for

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Speaker 4: me to speak up.

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Speaker 1: You've lived through so many campaigns and you've worked on them.

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Speaker 1: It seems like Republicans are heading into a ditch.

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Speaker 3: It kind of does, and I don't know how they

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Speaker 3: pull out of it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, think of is Sir Tim Scott announces his

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Speaker 4: exploratory committee. Of course he does what you're not supposed

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Speaker 4: to do. He's running and he doesn't have my hands

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Speaker 4: on the washing. Well that's the only question people going

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Speaker 4: to ask you. Broan Desatus is rightful president? He didn't

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Speaker 4: have an answer on Ukraine, of course, you got this

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Speaker 4: insane book banning. I mean, we can't tell the children

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Speaker 4: that they're gay people out there or black people.

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Speaker 3: What are they gonna do with it? Fire? You know,

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Speaker 3: they can't find that out.

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Speaker 4: It's insane on a level that you can't believe. And then,

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Speaker 4: of course is judge these pills. They don't seem to

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Speaker 4: want to get better. They really don't. I don't understand politics.

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Speaker 4: So you get a twenty seven percent issue and you

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Speaker 4: ride it as hard as you can.

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Speaker 2: So here's so here's a question for you.

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Speaker 1: So we have book banning, we have all of these

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Speaker 1: radical anti trends, anti gay, anti education bands going up

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Speaker 1: in these red states. We're seeing just a ton of

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Speaker 1: this real crazy kind of you know, trying to please

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Speaker 1: the base. So is the game here just the electoral

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Speaker 1: college is so crazy that you can win even if

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Speaker 1: you don't win. I mean, is that what these Republicans

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Speaker 1: are thinking or are they just out of control?

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I think they live at above all, right,

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Speaker 4: So all they care about are the base in the

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Speaker 4: base outlets. And you know, remember in twenty twenty, they

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Speaker 4: came within I don't know what forty five thousand votes

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Speaker 4: that have turned the vote around, and take the toll

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Speaker 4: that we won Georgia, Arizona, Nevada, and Wisconsin by and

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Speaker 4: it's not a lot of votes. And you know a

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Speaker 4: lot of people saying we're gonna have a recession coming up, Well,

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Speaker 4: the hell I might be a striking distance.

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Speaker 3: They might wonder damn thing.

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Speaker 4: Understand that we didn't have any turnout to speak of

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty. I mean, there's a lot to be

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Speaker 4: worried about.

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Speaker 1: Here, right, it's just a fiasco. Talk to me about

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Speaker 1: what you see Democrats doing that's during this period, which

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Speaker 1: I think is kind of interesting.

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Speaker 4: One of the things they did is they want a

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Speaker 4: big election in Wisconsin. You know, you got to haat

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Speaker 4: the off to Ben Wickler and the job that they

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Speaker 4: did there. And you know, they're outperforming in Virginia in

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Speaker 4: every election. Hell since the twenty twenty two election, I

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Speaker 4: think Deno crowds have outperformed substantially.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've got to build on that.

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Speaker 4: The biggest problem that we have, in my mind, is

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Speaker 4: we're just having dismally low black turnout in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 4: and unless we figure out a way to address that,

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Speaker 4: we're not going to be able to witney these kinds

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Speaker 4: of races. I'm really have a pay attention tag on

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Speaker 4: the Mississippi governor's race because that's a twenty twenty three

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Speaker 4: election and if they so, let's talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, all right, So.

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Speaker 4: If there's any spillover from this insanity in Tennessee, you

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Speaker 4: might see it in black turnout Mississippi this fall.

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Speaker 1: So do you feel like this stuff that happens in

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Speaker 1: Tennessee does it suppress black turnout? Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 4: Well, no, I'm I'm hoping it's stimulated interesting people see that.

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Speaker 4: And the guy from Tennessee to Justin Jones, Yeah, he

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Speaker 4: and the god from Memphis, Justin Pearson are quite smart people.

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Speaker 4: And that speaker looks like he's somebody got held back

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Speaker 4: a year when he was in school.

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Speaker 3: And it's not the sharpest knife in the draw.

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Speaker 2: No, he's not.

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Speaker 4: You know, maybe Justin Jones is in divinity, in the

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Speaker 4: master's program in divinity at Vanderbilt. I'm hoping maybe if

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Speaker 4: he can do some kind of black churches in Mississippi.

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Speaker 4: Delta think he's quite a hit, and you know he's

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Speaker 4: kind of young. I mean that was pretty cool him

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Speaker 4: and Joan Bias singing we Shall Overcome.

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Speaker 2: In the airport. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that doesn't make you feel good. I don't know

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Speaker 3: what can.

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Speaker 4: But I mean the hopefully this will stimulate people to

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Speaker 4: come out and vote. I mean, we certainly got to

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Speaker 4: put the stimulant right then hopefully they take it.

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Speaker 1: But it's a race we can win Mississippi. Yes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you've just blown my mind, James Carvill.

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Speaker 3: The Democratic floor in Missit is like forty seven and

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Speaker 3: a half.

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Speaker 2: Right in.

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Speaker 4: The black share is about thirty eight and a half,

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Speaker 4: and we're lucky if we'll get above thirty if we

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Speaker 4: got the black share up to five with Wen easy plus.

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Speaker 4: They have an incumbent governor who is particularly corrupt and

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Speaker 4: particularly stupid. He literally has the single most slappable face

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Speaker 4: I've ever seen in life. And we have a great candidate,

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Speaker 4: Brandon Presley. He's from Tupelo. Yes, he's part of that

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Speaker 4: family distantly related.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be more specific here. He's related to the king, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: go on.

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Speaker 4: And he's from the same town, that same county the

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Speaker 4: king is from its headquarters in Tupelo. And he's elected

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Speaker 4: to the Mississippi Public Service Commission from North Mississippi.

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Speaker 5: Citate.

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Speaker 4: It's that back to the highest ranking elected Democrat in Mississippi.

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Speaker 4: And he's a quite good candidate. I'm supposed to spend

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Speaker 4: a lot of time on this. They're so corrupt. Now

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Speaker 4: if you people haven't caught owned, they think Louisiana is

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Speaker 4: like more corrupting.

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Speaker 3: It's not.

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Speaker 4: In Louisiana it's not close to Mississippi when it comes

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Speaker 4: to corruption, not nowhere near, and it's all the public dominated.

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Speaker 1: So can you say a little more about how you

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Speaker 1: think that voters might elect a Democrat in Mississippi, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just because of his message or.

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Speaker 4: The corruption story as people figured out there's a bucket

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Speaker 4: road of corruption in Jackson.

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Speaker 1: Can you be a little more specific about what that

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Speaker 1: looks like?

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Speaker 4: Diverting five million dollars and money's supposed to go to

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Speaker 4: feed people, building a volleyball arena for All's daughter.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I remember this story?

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, Mississippi has a seven and a half

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Speaker 4: sales tax on food, okay, and they want to eliminate

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Speaker 4: the state income tax to charge poor we of course

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Speaker 4: high percentage of poor people in the country. Well, sales

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Speaker 4: tax on food kills poor people, right, of course, kill them.

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Speaker 1: It's slaughtersome, right, And that money is going to Brett

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Speaker 1: Farre's volleyball arena.

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Speaker 3: Right. It goes on and on.

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Speaker 4: The state auditor is elected, is it back toly a Republican?

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Speaker 3: He's a very credential guy.

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Speaker 2: So this guy's running against Tate Reeves.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's run against Tayter. He's about as smart as

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Speaker 4: a tater. The polls of forty six forty six, Wow,

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, if we can put the thing

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Speaker 4: in and we can get that black turnout, we can

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Speaker 4: do a lot better.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, rural.

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Speaker 4: Hospitals are closing Mississippi just left and right. You can't imagine,

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Speaker 4: of course, just out of cruelty, they only expand Medicaid. Well,

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Speaker 4: Brandan will gets in there, he'll be almost force him

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Speaker 4: to do.

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Speaker 2: It, right, I mean, because that does fall to governor's right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the legislation, but the governor has all

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Speaker 4: the power. You see that even the right way North

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Speaker 4: Carolina legislature decide they we're going to expand medicaid.

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Speaker 3: You think about it.

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Speaker 4: Even if you live in a rural county, maybe you

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Speaker 4: have health insurance, but if you don't have a hospital,

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Speaker 4: it's not gonna do any good.

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Speaker 2: And that's getting worse and worse every day.

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Speaker 3: They're closing them left and right.

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Speaker 4: You do this one election, you would probably help more people,

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Speaker 4: and you could imagine you'd probably be a half million

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Speaker 4: people would get health care. You would stop a horrific

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Speaker 4: increase of a semist sales tax food.

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Speaker 3: I think Brandon would like to get rid of it totally.

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Speaker 4: You know how much that would say, We didn't mean

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Speaker 4: to say a family of making twenty two thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: a year with their bucket load of a Mississippi Jesus

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Speaker 4: has a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting. So that's a great example.

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Speaker 1: We've seen some real surprises for governors races, starting with Kansas,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, you know, states that we think of as

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Speaker 1: very red states. But because you know, these governors have

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Speaker 1: done such crazy stuff, they've ended up electing Democrats.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think it's catching up with him. Nashally,

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Speaker 4: I love Trump out and pot who are going to

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Speaker 4: fold abortion were four pointed judges like real, But you

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Speaker 4: know he didn't take possibility for anything.

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Speaker 2: Right, No, it's never his fault, right, Nope.

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Speaker 3: We could do well in twenty twenty four four.

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Speaker 4: You know, No, but you look you look at Striking,

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Speaker 4: This is two thirds of a country doesn't want Biden

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Speaker 4: to run for reelection. I mean, we're just doing things

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Speaker 4: in this country. You know, two thirds of people in

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Speaker 4: this country don't want about law abortion pills. I mean,

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Speaker 4: at some level in politics, you've got to start giving

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Speaker 4: the public what it wants basically what the public wants,

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Speaker 4: so a lot of the same things that you and

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Speaker 4: I would want.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think about that crazy polling number.

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Speaker 4: I think people feel like Biden is too old, right,

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Speaker 4: It's an issue that's not going to go away. They're

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Speaker 4: not going to like change. You know, you sometimes people

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Speaker 4: think you too liberal. Where you can sort of tack

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Speaker 4: a little bit to the Senate that too conservative. You

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Speaker 4: can you can fiddle ideology, you know, you can make adjustice.

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Speaker 4: He can't adjust your age, and so he does it.

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Speaker 4: Obviously I'll beat my form. I think he's done a

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Speaker 4: good job, but the question is not going to go away.

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Speaker 1: I do think that running against Trump, it's not as

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Speaker 1: much of an issue. I mean, if he's running against

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Speaker 1: someone like Ron DeSantis.

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Speaker 3: People have to choose, all right.

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Speaker 4: Don't even know if Clump's going to be Several people

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Speaker 4: that have seen him said he just looks awful and

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Speaker 4: he's really fat. You hope you don't phowto number here

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Speaker 4: in the next.

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Speaker 3: Year and a half.

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Speaker 1: I think he's going to run.

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Speaker 4: People have said, with some long shit, the borrol Igo

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Speaker 4: case isn't a non laughable defense for him in it.

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Speaker 4: I think that's going to be his downfall of documents.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, the document's case, you know, And we're hearing more

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Speaker 1: and more that Jack Smith has this plan and that plan,

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Speaker 1: and he's you know, interviewing people. But ultimately it doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily matter, right, I mean, I think the base doesn't

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Speaker 1: care about Jack Smith.

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Speaker 3: The base is forty percent. You can't win with forty.

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Speaker 1: Percent, right, No, no, you can't win, but you can

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Speaker 1: win a primary.

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Speaker 3: It could. That's that's their huge problem.

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Speaker 1: But it's not our problem.

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Speaker 3: No. You know, he's gotten now a new ad with

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Speaker 3: food and fingers.

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Speaker 1: That's an amazing ad.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they're just brutal and de Haanders don't know

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Speaker 4: what he stepped into. You know, I've told you before

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Speaker 4: this program that Susie Wiles is like she's vicious. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 4: and they hate DeSantis and they hate the white and

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Speaker 4: the Democrats. We said, we just well, we know we'll

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Speaker 4: get Trump will probably beat him, you probably will, but

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Speaker 4: you know, in a recession, are you sure?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: The stakes are much higher if you're going to against

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Speaker 2: Trump too.

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Speaker 3: Hi, it's not even the word for.

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Speaker 2: It, right.

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Speaker 1: I do think that DeSantis is actually much scarier than

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Speaker 1: Trump because DeSantis is good at doing this.

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Speaker 4: He's good at stunts, right, all right. His whole answer

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Speaker 4: on Ukraine is really amateur stuff. And Trump has just

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Speaker 4: pummeled him and he doesn't know how to fight back.

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Speaker 4: I'm in too, bringing Jeff row in. You know, they're

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Speaker 4: trying to figure it out. But he's good at bathrooms, right.

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Speaker 4: You know, he talks about his record yet crime breaking.

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Speaker 4: Vought is high a crime wake in California, New York.

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Speaker 4: And you know he's had a you know, he because

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Speaker 4: he did sot of well against Trump at the beginning,

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Speaker 4: and everybody enamored with him. I don't see any evidence

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Speaker 4: that he can hit big league pitch in it, that

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Speaker 4: he can play in this field.

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Speaker 3: I just don't.

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Speaker 2: What about that twenty twenty four Senate map.

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Speaker 4: To keep the Senate wouldn't need fifty three plus percent

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Speaker 4: of the popular vote, which is exceedingly difficult to do

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Speaker 4: it had been done.

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Speaker 1: But also, I mean, like Joe Manchin, I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you think he even runs as a Democrat.

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Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, when I look at the poet in

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Speaker 4: West Virginia, he might not even be able to win

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Speaker 4: if he runs a Democrat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about West Virginia is their governor

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Speaker 1: used to be a Democrat. I mean he could just

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Speaker 1: run as an independent.

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Speaker 4: I think he and Mansion a friendly to the too

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Speaker 4: well people in the state. Yeah, I mean Mansion. In

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Speaker 4: twenty eighteen, they said didn't do anything to get him

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Speaker 4: to switch. He told me he didn't switch any wore

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Speaker 4: switch because it may be if he wants to stay

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Speaker 4: in the Senate, the only way he can do it

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Speaker 4: is he switches.

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Speaker 1: Or he runs as an independent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe he could is run into as an independent.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of running as an independent, and it's being horrible,

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Speaker 1: here's in cinema.

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Speaker 3: She's done. You can stick a walk in her. She's done.

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Speaker 1: You don't think no labels can get the money for

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Speaker 1: her and runners at third party?

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Speaker 4: Well there are about no labels is I don't know

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Speaker 4: how much money is left after everybody gets that cut.

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Speaker 4: Third Way is fine organization.

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Speaker 3: I like to any of that.

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Speaker 4: This is just sheer evil. This is what is this

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Speaker 4: get The only thing that they can do is throw

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Speaker 4: the election to Trump.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, somebody's got to make money to help get Trump elected.

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Speaker 4: I am so not a fan of no abels. You

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Speaker 4: can't believe it.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're basically just a Republican SuperMac, right.

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Speaker 4: They get some dollars that I know, and I like.

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Speaker 4: It's one of these things that it sounds attractive and

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Speaker 4: it's not. There's nothing good that can come out of it.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure that the Russians and the Koch brothers and

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Speaker 4: the whole thing is figguring out of way that they

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Speaker 4: can be part of this giant effort to ruin the country.

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Speaker 4: It sounds good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, right, But but Shared Brown, John Tester,

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Speaker 1: are you're not so worried about that, Angus.

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Speaker 3: King, I'm worried sick about testing Shared Brown?

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Speaker 1: Really yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we had to have a wrong from soft

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Speaker 3: him general election in them, and you know we have.

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Speaker 4: We worried a little bit about Bobby Kasey in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 4: You know, we got to keep that Nevada seat, which

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Speaker 4: we won about seven thousand votes last time. We got

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Speaker 4: to keep the oars on a seat. The place we

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Speaker 4: might have a chance, honestly is Texas.

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Speaker 2: Who is going to run for that seat?

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Speaker 3: If Colin Albred runs.

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Speaker 4: I like him, He's a close friend, great guy, got

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Speaker 4: a great life story, and you know Ted Kruz he's

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Speaker 4: not that popular, and he's trying to be out a

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Speaker 4: way around this, and Texas is changing, and I think

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Speaker 4: it would be wrong to give up on Texas.

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Speaker 3: By way.

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Speaker 4: It's the best chance we have for a pickup in

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Speaker 4: the country in Mississippi. If we had somebody running in

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Speaker 4: Cyndy I Smith, what is she do? One ox rock

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Speaker 4: to a second?

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, you know, three of a square yard of concrete.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Take you pick, James Carville. I hope you'll come.

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Speaker 3: Back always, Molly, love you so much.

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Speaker 1: John Delivopi is a Democratic poster and the author of

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Speaker 1: Fight How gen Z is channeling their fear and passion

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Speaker 1: to save America.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to you Fast Politics, John.

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Speaker 3: I love it. Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 1: So you are a famous celebrity, largely famous for your

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Speaker 1: incredible polling, which has gotten you to the White House.

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Speaker 1: But let's first start you sort of become an expert

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Speaker 1: on this generation that is coming up and what do

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Speaker 1: we call them?

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Speaker 3: Well, we were calling the courge generation gen Z. You know.

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Speaker 5: Ma, I've been at this with students of data to

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Speaker 5: a politics now for a couple of decades.

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Speaker 3: So I've been.

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Speaker 5: Fortunate enough to measure the entire generation of millennials their

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Speaker 5: political activity.

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Speaker 3: And now we're halfway into gen Z.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about gen Z a little bit

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Speaker 1: and then we can talk about the current news. So

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Speaker 1: I'm gen X, but I want to ask you my generation,

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Speaker 1: just give us the landscape.

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Speaker 2: My generation sucks, right.

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Speaker 5: Our generation sucks, yea, our generation sucks. We just don't

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Speaker 5: have like a central identity. You know, it's smaller. We

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Speaker 5: don't have a central identity. And the reason I say

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Speaker 5: it sucks today, Molly, is because when I ask gen

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Speaker 5: xers what they think of essentially their kids, you know,

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Speaker 5: gen Z would sentially be the kids of Gen X.

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Speaker 3: They've got like terrible views of them.

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Speaker 5: I've asked this question a bunch of times and number

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Speaker 5: purchase and raised, whether it's a feeling thermometer or a

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Speaker 5: basic fave on fath in, a strong majority of gen

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Speaker 5: X has negative views towards gen Z.

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Speaker 3: That's why I say they suck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why we suck. Let's talk about what you're seeing.

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Speaker 5: I think what we're seeing is a political enlightenment of

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Speaker 5: a new generation. Would I argue in my book, would

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Speaker 5: I argue after looking at forty five youth surveys over

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Speaker 5: the last couple decades.

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Speaker 3: Is that two things.

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Speaker 5: One is no generation I think since the greatest generation

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Speaker 5: has dealt with more trauma, more chaos, more quickly before

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Speaker 5: neuroscience tells us that the human brain is mature around

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Speaker 5: the age of twenty five, then that's just this generation

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Speaker 5: Gen Z. They don't have a living memory of nine

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Speaker 5: to eleven, which also means they don't remember September twelfth

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Speaker 5: or September thirteenth, arguably the last time our country was

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Speaker 5: truly united in a common cost right.

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Speaker 1: And even then it wasn't that united. But yes, continue right.

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Speaker 5: But despite that, and despite the impact they've seen from

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Speaker 5: the financial crisis, from obviously school shootings, school shooting drills, opioids,

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Speaker 5: climate change, systemic racism, COVID, et cetera. Despite all of that,

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Speaker 5: rather than fleeing, rather than running away losing complete trust

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Speaker 5: and institutions which they have, they've also decided to stand

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Speaker 5: up and to fight. And the way in which I

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Speaker 5: measure that is it just from social media and organizers

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Speaker 5: and protesters, but it's basically looking at the elected results

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Speaker 5: the last three three and a half electracycles ty eighteen,

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty, twenty twenty two. This generation has voted at

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Speaker 5: numbers we have not seen in at least fifty years.

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Speaker 3: When we were their age, Molly, real quick. When we

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Speaker 3: were their age, we voted at.

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Speaker 5: Half the level as our children in the midterm election,

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Speaker 5: at half the level.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting.

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Speaker 3: Tell me why they see an urgency.

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Speaker 5: It's related, frankly to this whiplash that they came of

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Speaker 5: age under between no Drama Obama and President Trump. When

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Speaker 5: immediately they saw the ramifications, the tangible differences that politics

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Speaker 5: and political engagement can make. They saw that and they

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Speaker 5: began to kind of pay closer attention. And of course

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Speaker 5: they were I think empowered by like minded individuals that

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Speaker 5: they could connect with the students of Parkland who did

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Speaker 5: an incredible job not just protesting but registering voters. It's

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Speaker 5: spreading that message from coast to coast and every community

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Speaker 5: where they touched, and that really kind of started and

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Speaker 5: I think kind of lit a flame from twenty eighteen

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Speaker 5: on that voting.

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Speaker 3: Is just part of who they are, it's part of

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Speaker 3: what they do.

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Speaker 5: Unlike other generations, voting is an important part of that

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Speaker 5: what we might call their civic toolbox. They're going to

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Speaker 5: use every single tool that they can to create the

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Speaker 5: America that they know we can be.

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Speaker 2: This younger generation has the Republicans pretty worried.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: They should be worried.

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Speaker 5: Whether or not they're worried enough to actually stick a

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Speaker 5: step back into listening and to internalize what they're hearing,

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Speaker 5: that's another conversation, because I'm not sure they're wired enough

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Speaker 5: to change course.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me what they don't like about this administration

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Speaker 1: and Republican politics in general.

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Speaker 5: Especially over the last couple of weeks between Wisconsin and Tennessee.

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Speaker 3: It seems to me, from.

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Speaker 5: Kelly and Conway to Scott Walker, right, they're talking about

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Speaker 5: we have a messaging problem with gen Z. We need

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Speaker 5: to stop in doctor nat and then we need to

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Speaker 5: turn them around. These are all quotes of My response

446
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 5: is and I've briefed, I briefed the Trump Whitehouse, and

447
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 5: we've briefed several tendants. Repote kids run for president for

448
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 5: years and years, and what this version of the Republican

449
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,719
Speaker 5: Party doesn't understand is that it's not a messaging problem

450
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 5: they have. It's a values problem. And unless they listen

451
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 5: to those shaned experiences of gen Z if they look

452
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 5: at our pulling or any other public polling available and

453
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 5: they see the deep concern they have about losing their

454
00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 5: basic rights and freedoms as Americans. Whether that's the woman's

455
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 5: right to her reproductive choice, whether that's the right to

456
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 5: breathe clean air in a drink clean water, or right

457
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 5: to be free of gun violence when you're into her

458
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 5: classroom or other public space. These are basic fundamental rights

459
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 5: there at the highest level of concern for gen Z,

460
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 5: regardless if you're a male, female, white, black, Aspanic, Asian

461
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 5: American Democrat or even Republican.

462
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 2: So what percentage of gen Z is pro choice?

463
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 5: It's a difficult number sometimes to kind a pinpoint bally

464
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 5: based upon all the different topics under debate today, But

465
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 5: I'd say a solid two thirds, too close to you know,

466
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 5: eighty percent. When you're talking about, for example, access to

467
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 5: medical abortion pills, that's a that's you know, that's a

468
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 5: more nuanced view of that, but solid two thirds.

469
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: It seems like medical abortion pills are a loser for Republicans.

470
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 5: There is a one state in America where there's net

471
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 5: support for banning. There not one state in the Union

472
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 5: where there's net support are betting that.

473
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: So remember, so we have two cases right now. This

474
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: could possibly go up to the Supreme Court. I mean,

475
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: they still might decide not to if they're smart, they'll

476
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 1: decide not to hear it. But if they do decide

477
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: to hear it, you could see a world where they

478
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: decide to ban medical abortion pills.

479
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: Is there anything not on the table with this court?

480
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 2: I mean at this point, yeah, that would be my thinking.

481
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: So if that happened, what would that look like in

482
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: this you know, this would then be the second Row election.

483
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 5: Yes, and there are two places I think where President

484
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 5: Biden has several October is always places to grow, Okay, right,

485
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 5: but I think there's a lot of opportunity from to

486
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 5: grow among the suburbs. I think there's a lot of

487
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 5: opportunities to grow among women, specifically white women. I believe

488
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 5: he lost the white female vote in twenty twenty. So

489
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 5: there were just a couple of examples I think of

490
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 5: significant change that we could see in the elect if

491
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 5: the Republicans continue to be on this path. Another little

492
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 5: footnote to that is when we talk about the youthho

493
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 5: and the the gen z in the millennial vote, there

494
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 5: are only two states with more than three electoral votes

495
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 5: where the Democrat where Biden did not.

496
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 3: Win the youtha only two states, one of which was Tennessee. Right, Oh,

497
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: let's keep an eye on that.

498
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Tennessee for a minute, because this is

499
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: kind of an incredible situation. In Tennessee.

500
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: You had a sort of groundswell.

501
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: Of young voters, right, some of whom were already in

502
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: the legislature, including the two Justins. What do you think

503
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: you'll see out of Tennessee? Now?

504
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 5: The biggest barrier Molly to young people participting in politics

505
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 5: is can they see the difference that engagement makes more

506
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 5: people generally volunteer in service than vote.

507
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: And is there a better example?

508
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: Wait, explain that more people volunteer than vote.

509
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 5: That's crazy off your election when less than half, less

510
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 5: than half of young people vote, you'll have more young

511
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 5: people volunteer in a significant way through some form of

512
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 5: community service, whether they high school, college, or working within

513
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 5: their religious community or helping neighbors.

514
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

515
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 5: So that's why I never bought the idea of like apathy.

516
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 5: It was not a connection or seeing the tangible difference

517
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 5: that politics can make. So if you take that framework

518
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 5: and you apply that to Tennessee. You can see the

519
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 5: difference that those two incredible young leaders have shown all

520
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 5: of us.

521
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 6: Right.

522
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 5: They have really kind of put the issue, the continued

523
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 5: issue of gun violence, of school shootings, and the lack

524
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 5: of empathy perhaps right of the opposition party into full force,

525
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 5: into show that the power of organizing and community can

526
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 5: change outcomes. As they were both reappointed the last week.

527
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: So I mean, do you think there'll be a groundswell

528
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: of voting in Tennessee.

529
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 5: I don't think there's any sort of question that you know.

530
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 5: This is like a law fit. I think was it

531
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 5: the third law of physics? I think I'm not a

532
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 5: physicistem really thinking that good is science, but I think it's.

533
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: Like a third law.

534
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 5: Right, every action as a reaction, and in this case,

535
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 5: the reaction is going to be stronger than the initial reaction,

536
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 5: and it's going to be more powerful. And I think

537
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 5: it just gives young people across that state much more

538
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 5: reason to turn out. And I'm sure it's captured the

539
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 5: attention of funders and other folks who support younger people.

540
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 5: And I looked at the college, I looked at the

541
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 5: results from Knoxville, you know, the college down where Republicans

542
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 5: went quite handily twenty twenty, I'm not sure that's going

543
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 5: to be the case in twenty twenty four.

544
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: So again it doesn't necessarily I mean these the electoral

545
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: votes will probably still go to a Republican.

546
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tennessee most likely the cycle.

547
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but a things will change and also maybe they'll

548
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: pick up a congressional seat.

549
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 2: And right, I mean that state legislature, state legislature.

550
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I wanted to ask thank you, speaking of

551
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: it's never too soon to start panicking about this coming election.

552
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, Republicans have the House by

553
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: five seats.

554
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: How many seats in New York?

555
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: Did did Congress talk to me about that Republican New

556
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: York delegation, many of whom won in Biden districts.

557
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 5: I think that that you have volt now that they've

558
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 5: turned out in three elections in a row, Like I said,

559
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 5: at record studying levels. This is changing the way which

560
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 5: the national parties think about strategy. And the thing about

561
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 5: young voters is that they there's always more of them.

562
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 5: Despite the fact that they've had these record turnouts. You know,

563
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 5: we're still on average fifty percent among college students at

564
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 5: sixty percent. So what I'm saying is that now that

565
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 5: Democrats understand this, I think that and now that there's

566
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 5: a play book from Wisconsin from the Wisconsin Supreme Court

567
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 5: election just a few weeks ago, I believe that the

568
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 5: Democratic Party will be investing on the ground to move

569
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 5: young voters in these very close contests like in New York,

570
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 5: like in Colorado, on some of these other places, and

571
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 5: potentially going to flip them by maximizing that Cohort, I

572
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 5: can't talk to you about every single race, but I

573
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 5: think that's going to be a new tool in the

574
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 5: Democrat toolbox.

575
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: So I want you to say more about the playbook

576
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: from Wisconsin because that's explained to us what Democrats did

577
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. Because remember it's a split state and Judge

578
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: Janet won by eleven points. So if that isn't something

579
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: to learn from, I don't know what is.

580
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 5: So two other sets of numbers right that capture my attention,

581
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 5: one of which is the turnout on college campuses. Turnout

582
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 5: at the University Wisconsin system was between eighty and ninety

583
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 5: nine percent of the turnout. And the last mid term election, okay,

584
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 5: when you had the governor in the center races and

585
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 5: this is an.

586
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: Off year, like off year, off year election.

587
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 5: One hundred percent. Yes, that's part one and part two.

588
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 5: The folks who turned out. The worst precinct was seventy

589
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 5: eight percent for the progressive candidate. The worst precinct in

590
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 5: some cases there were eighty eighty five ninety percent so

591
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 5: fore of the Democratic back candidate.

592
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: So those are the results.

593
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 5: How they got there is they did it with a

594
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 5: relatively small team of twelve or thirteen staff.

595
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: I am so proud that.

596
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 5: One of my former students, Teddy Landis, was one of

597
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 5: the key organizers of this movement. And what he did

598
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 5: was he had twelve or thirteen staff. He had one

599
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 5: hundred paid fellows essentially interns tends on students on campuses.

600
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 5: They paid him, I don't know, a couple hundred dollars

601
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 5: a week. They had the right vibe on campus in

602
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 5: terms of how important this election was. But before they

603
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 5: turned out people, they actually began to educate them first.

604
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 5: So the three key components to moving young people to

605
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 5: turn out one, educate them. They had non parsan voter

606
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 5: guides available in every college campu hard copies as well

607
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 5: as through internet QR codes want. Second, the second thing

608
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 5: is they talk to them about the importance of this

609
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 5: election and the difference that their participation can make.

610
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: Second, and then the.

611
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 5: Third thing is they able to tear down some of

612
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 5: those logistical barriers around registration and turning on election day

613
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: that digital ads.

614
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: But that was a relatively small component I think too.

615
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: Just the real organizing and the joy that these young

616
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 5: young people had in organizing their peers. They knocked on

617
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 5: every college dormitory minimum of two times.

618
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: Wow. So I mean, is that a playbook that Democrats

619
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: could use in twenty four without question?

620
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: I think so.

621
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 5: There's two parts of that playbook, right, One is the

622
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 5: framework I talked about, right, education, empowering, and then lowering

623
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 5: the barriers to participation. Those three components are going to

624
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 5: be critical. But just the idea of empowering other students

625
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 5: to take this into their own hands. Right, provide a framework,

626
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 5: but give them the flexibility right to On this case,

627
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 5: students wore running around and judges costumes.

628
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 7: Right.

629
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 5: They had hundreds of gabbles on the hill at one

630
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 5: of the universities there. Whatever they could do to create

631
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 5: a spectacle, right that would pierce through the traditional bubbles

632
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 5: of people who care about politics to make it kind

633
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 5: of you know, a part of kind of who they are.

634
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 5: And of course, you know it wasn't just young people

635
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 5: might take the former chair of the Wisconsin Party helped

636
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 5: oversee and helped collaborate, you know, with the young people

637
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 5: who are still so new with the process that they

638
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 5: obviously could use some hands of more experienced folks. That's

639
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 5: a certainly kind of a playbook. Because listen, it's almost

640
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 5: like in politics, Molly, we talked about a blind pole, right,

641
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 5: you know, because of the way the Republicans are treating

642
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 5: this generation. You know, seven out of ten young people,

643
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 5: if you just pull them out of a door or

644
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 5: pull them out have a high school class or community

645
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 5: college class, are going to be with a Democrat.

646
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because their choice is nothing or I mean, if

647
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: the Republicans offer voters nothing, I mean, and Donald Trump's

648
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: gotten a raw deal is not something people vote on,

649
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: especially if they're young.

650
00:31:59,160 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 5: Right.

651
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you not that I think

652
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has gotten a raw deal, because I do not.

653
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to ask you. Now you are

654
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: like into this twenty twenty four cycle. You are involved

655
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: in the Biden White House. So you see a lot

656
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: of stuff and you have Biden's ear. What do you

657
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: think Biden needs to do? I mean his numbers again,

658
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't believe any of these numbers, so whatever, but

659
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: what can he do? I mean my sense is that

660
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 1: really the issue is just to get his people out there, right,

661
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: like you're not going to change the Newsmax.

662
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 5: People are not going to be voting for him. I mean,

663
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 5: but first of all, let's take one swall step back,

664
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: and I would challenge anyone to name a more consequential

665
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 5: president and delivering for young people in several decades, right

666
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 5: in terms of following up on what he promised during

667
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 5: the campaign, that's part one. From fighting for student loan

668
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 5: relief to climate to guns, et cetera, et cetera.

669
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: He has done what he said he do want.

670
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 5: That doesn't mean that every young person is following the

671
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 5: news as closely as you and I are, and I

672
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 5: appreciate that, right. So, one thing I think that he

673
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 5: and the administration could not do enough of is continue

674
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 5: to talk about all the wins from having our first

675
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 5: African American female in the Supreme Court, through all the

676
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 5: other accomplishments, and say this is because of you. This

677
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 5: is because of the participation in those swing states and

678
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 5: in every other state across the country. He's not president

679
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 5: of the United States without young people. They were a

680
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 5: core part of that coalition. So he can never do

681
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 5: enough of that and to celebrate those victories and let

682
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 5: them know that they were an important part about I

683
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 5: think they have done a pretty incredible job of that

684
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 5: during the campaign season of during the last midterm cycle.

685
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 5: But I think that you can never do enough of that,

686
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 5: especially during this time, because it's all about building trust

687
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 5: and building kind of a relationship with this generation.

688
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: So what about stuff like a lot of younger people

689
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: feel that really, you know, they've been sort of dragged

690
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: into debt that they cannot repay and that is following

691
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: them everywhere. I mean, what else can Biden do for

692
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: these young people to know that he's looking.

693
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: At for them.

694
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 5: Obviously continuing to fight on this on the student depth

695
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 5: that's obviously not in his hands at the moment, but

696
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 5: it's about understanding the fact that half of them, half

697
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 5: of eighteen to twenty nine year olds. Molly tell us

698
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 5: Untel medical researchers that several days the last couple of

699
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 5: weeks they've felt hopelessness, depression, boneliness, twenty five percent say

700
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 5: it's so bad that they have thought about self harm

701
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 5: five percent every single day. So it starts with a

702
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 5: recognition from President Biden all the way down that this

703
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 5: generation has incredible kind of anxiety about their future. Yeah,

704
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 5: we can't solve everything, but here are some things that

705
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 5: government could do to lessen the burden just a little bit.

706
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 5: Help them feel safer in school, right, help them access

707
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 5: if not college, community college with a chance to learn

708
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 5: your practice, and to buy a home. So there are

709
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 5: a variety of ways, I think, but in that context,

710
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 5: I understand the real pain that so many members of

711
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 5: this generation have, being empathetic to that and using that

712
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 5: to find big things that government can do to again,

713
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 5: just take a little bit of that load off their

714
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 5: backs every day.

715
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, John, you are the best.

716
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: Love it. Thanks so much, Molly.

717
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: Joan Biskubik is a CNN Senior Supreme Court Analyst and

718
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: author of Nine Black Robes Inside the Supreme Courts, Drive

719
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: to the Right. Welcome to Fast Politics Town.

720
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 6: Thank you. I am so happy to be here, Molly.

721
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 2: We're delighted to have you. So I want to talk

722
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: to you.

723
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: You're Supreme Court analyst. The book is called Nine Black Robes.

724
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: I first want to ask you, how different is this

725
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: Supreme Court right now than any Supreme Court in history?

726
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: Or is it not.

727
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 6: That's a great question, and it is very different. I

728
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 6: started covering the Supreme Court late eighties early nineties, first

729
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 6: full time when I was at the Washington Post and

730
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 6: then moving on, and I always would write about the

731
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 6: conservative majority. But when I look back and consider who

732
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 6: I was labeling the conservatives for that majority, they would

733
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 6: definitely be liberals. Today we're talking about Sandra Day O'Connor,

734
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 6: Anthony Kennedy, people who then evolved into centrist justices and

735
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 6: now whose legacy are essentially being erased. The Court is

736
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 6: so different because the appointees since two thousand and five,

737
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 6: essentially with Chief Justice John Roberts and then into two

738
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 6: thousand and six with Samuel Alito, moved the court further

739
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 6: to the right. And then, of course the three appointees

740
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 6: of President Donald Trump really propelled the bench into a

741
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 6: whole another territory, which is how I think we got

742
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 6: the Dobs ruling in Jewe, rolling back nearly fifty years

743
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 6: of precedent.

744
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about I sort of want to

745
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: start with Dobbs, even though you have some really interesting

746
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: stuff from your book, but I want to first talk

747
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: about Dobbs because it's such a seismic shift. I mean,

748
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: I want our listeners to sort of get like, how

749
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: you think this Dobbs decision came about a little bit,

750
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, Like, obviously there were conservatives in

751
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: the court who had always wanted this, but how they

752
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: were able to sort of get it through.

753
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 6: Sure, the Dobs decision is so intertwined with the death

754
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 6: of Jessice s Ginsberg. That was the culminating moment that

755
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 6: got us to this point, when Justice Skinsberg died and

756
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 6: Donald Trump was able to speed through the nomination of

757
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 6: Amy Cony Barrett. But things had been building before then.

758
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 6: I do want to remind our audience that there have

759
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 6: been plenty of justices through the years, Republican appointees and

760
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 6: Democratic appointees too, who might not have ever voted for Roe,

761
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 6: might have thought that Roe was wrongly decided, but who

762
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 6: left it in place because they believed in precedent. So,

763
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 6: year after year, decade after decade, despite lots of misgivings

764
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 6: about Roe on the part of for example, Sandrady O'Connor

765
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 6: and Anthony Kennedy, they still voted to uphold it. So

766
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 6: you basically had a nineteen seventy three decision that justice

767
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 6: is adhered to, even though they had misgivings. Starting then,

768
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 6: when you take the two thousands, the early two thousands

769
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 6: and the appointment of Chief Justice John Roberts and Samuel Alito,

770
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 6: you saw much more scrutiny of reproductive rights. And then

771
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 6: what happened when Justice Ginsberg died. It was right in

772
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 6: the same month that Mississippi had come up to the

773
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 6: Supreme Court appealing earlier rejection of its fifteen week ban

774
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 6: on abortion. And never before had the Court in this

775
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 6: modern era decided to take up an appeal of an

776
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 6: abortion ban. But that timing was so perfect for Mississippi

777
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 6: because it suddenly gave a new audience for Mississippi. So

778
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 6: when the Justices decided to take that case once Amy

779
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 6: Coni Barrett was on the court, they did so with

780
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 6: some reluctance. At first, they had waited to consider the

781
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 6: petition from Mississippi for its fifteen week ban, But then

782
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 6: when they even agreed to take it, Molly they said

783
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 6: that they were only going to consider one question, and

784
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 6: the question was whether the fifteen week limit on abortions

785
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 6: would conflict with Roe and the whole idea that government

786
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 6: could not interfere with the abortion choice before the moment

787
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 6: of viability, which now put it roughly twenty three weeks.

788
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 6: So that was the one question they were going to

789
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 6: take it on, and we all sort of understood that

790
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 6: to still be a momentous case, an important case, because

791
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 6: viability had been the firewall for nearly five decades. But

792
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 6: then given the new justices we had, this court was

793
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 6: ready to go further and decided to not just address

794
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 6: the question presented, which was focused on this Mississippi law,

795
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 6: but to go further and say for the first time

796
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 6: that Roe cannot stand. Roe is gone. So it was

797
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 6: in some ways very well timed on the part of

798
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 6: Mississippi and also these other states. There was a prelude

799
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 6: to the Mississippi case in Texas's SB eight case, which

800
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 6: had essentially banned abortion at roughly six weeks. So these

801
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 6: things all intertwined right at this crucial moment that was

802
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 6: just in the aftermath of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's debt.

803
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want to talk to you about this

804
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: quite interesting story that comes from your book about a

805
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: secret deal between Justice John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy on

806
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: gay rights. Roberts and Kennedy were these sort of old

807
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: school conservative justices, ones who went to the court not

808
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: with the goal of reshaping it, but really, I think largely,

809
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: and again I'm no expert, you are with the goal

810
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: of kind of finding consensus building. I mean, do you

811
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: think that's true? And talk to me a little bit

812
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: about what happened with this deal.

813
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 6: Sure, And I think you rightly are characterizing how people

814
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 6: have thought of Justice Kennedy mainly and the Chief to

815
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,959
Speaker 6: an extent, in terms of their institutional interests and moving

816
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 6: incrementally right. You know, Ronald Reagan put Anthony Kennedy on

817
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 6: the bench when you couldn't get Robert Burke through. And

818
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 6: Kennedy was quite conservative consistently in the beginning, but obviously

819
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 6: changed through the years. And he was the one who

820
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 6: gave us the twenty fifteen landmark ruling in Ogerbergerfell versus Hodges,

821
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 6: which declared same sex marriage a fundamental right. So that's

822
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 6: kind of where you start with its chronology. I lay

823
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 6: out for this deal on gay rights. And the chief

824
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 6: is he obviously is to the right of Anthony Kennedy,

825
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 6: but he also is a bit of an incrementalist who

826
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 6: didn't want things to be pushed too far. So this

827
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 6: tale that I spin in my new book begins with

828
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 6: Chief Justice Roberts dissenting so angrily to a Bergafell. He

829
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 6: takes the unprecedented for him step of reading his descent

830
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 6: from the bench. He has never done it in any

831
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 6: other case for his eighteen years on the court, and

832
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 6: he says, just who do we think we are saying

833
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 6: that it should be up to the legislatures across the

834
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 6: country on whether same sex marriage should be allowed. So

835
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 6: he's very angry in twenty fifteen, but he still has

836
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 6: to think about this institution that he is overseeing. And

837
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 6: there are these two gay rights cases that come up

838
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 6: in twenty seventeen. They're the first major battles since a Bergafell,

839
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 6: and he works with Kennedy to sort of move more incremental,

840
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 6: get a little bit more of what he wants because

841
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 6: one of them involves religious interests, but he also offers

842
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 6: a concession to Kennedy. One involved a case of two

843
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 6: lesbian women who had wanted to have both names on

844
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 6: a birth certificate for their baby, but Arkansas had prevented that.

845
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 6: And that was a case that just as Kennedy and

846
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 6: the liberal members of the bench had wanted to just

847
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 6: handle in summary fashion because they thought that law is

848
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 6: wrong and it conflicts with Obergefell, and they needed a

849
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 6: sixth vote. There's a private rule at the court that

850
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 6: normally you need five votes mally as I'm sure you know,

851
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 6: but you need a six if you're going to do

852
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 6: a summary reversal. So the Chief was willing to offer

853
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 6: his sixth vote to summarily reverse this ruling to women

854
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 6: who wanted both names on the baby's birth certificate, and

855
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 6: to cast that vote without any record of it, because

856
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 6: when you do a summary reversally, they don't have to

857
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 6: say the votes. But at the same time, he wanted

858
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 6: something from Kennedy. He wanted Kennedy to agree and to

859
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 6: be inclined toward a Colorado baker whose case now you're

860
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 6: very familiar with, but back in late twenty sixteen early

861
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 6: twenty seventeen had just arrived at the Court, and just

862
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 6: as Kennedy really did not want to take up a

863
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 6: case that involved a baker who had refused to make

864
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 6: a cake for a marriage celebration for two men who

865
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 6: had married wanted him to bake a cake and he

866
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 6: had refused, and the Colorado Civil Rights Commission had sanctioned

867
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 6: this baker, Jack Phillips is his name. But the Chief

868
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 6: really felt like they should start looking at those kinds

869
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 6: of cases because he was concerned, as he even wrote

870
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 6: in his dissent in Albergafel, about religious interests, people who

871
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 6: are religious who do not want to acknowledge same sex

872
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 6: marriages and somehow could be punished for their resistance. And so,

873
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 6: as you noted in the book, there's this tale of

874
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 6: how Roberts feels like it's in his interest to work

875
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 6: with Kennedy for a compromise in these two cases. And

876
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 6: I use it as an example of how this is

877
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 6: the Chief using his soft power of persuasion to get

878
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 6: something he wants in the wake of old Bergefel, And

879
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 6: I think it also shows how the justices' positions on

880
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 6: gay rights evolve and are always fraught. These cases are

881
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 6: always fraught, and right now we have one pending that

882
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 6: essentially picks up the chapter from The Masterpiece cake Shop,

883
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 6: and it now involves, as you probably have been following,

884
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 6: a woman who designs websites who doesn't want to have

885
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 6: to design a wedding website for a same sex couple. Yeah.

886
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: Do you feel like a lot of these conservatives and

887
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: tanks and liberal think tanks do this, But I feel

888
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: like conservatives do it more. Have really been so focused

889
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: on bringing up these cases in front of the Supreme

890
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: Court that it's kind of perverted the way that the

891
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: Supreme Court functions.

892
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 6: Now, Oh, they are definitely being delivered cases. I mean,

893
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 6: just think of what we have percolating in Texas right

894
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 6: now on a medication abortion. There are activists who are

895
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 6: bound and determined to get to this court, and right

896
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 6: now there are no liberals who want to get to

897
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 6: this court. So let's just say they are doing everything

898
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 6: to make cases stay away from this court. So they've

899
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 6: got their own agenda of saying, do not go to

900
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court. Let's go to state court for things

901
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 6: as much as we can. They don't want to do that. Meanwhile,

902
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 6: folks on the writers saying we want to get to

903
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 6: this court, this court has a big welcome Matt sign

904
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 6: out for us. In fact, that's how I gave kind

905
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 6: of a long tail about Mississippi's great timing. But when

906
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 6: Mississippi first came up to the Court with its ban

907
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 6: on abortions at fifteen weeks, it was not asking for

908
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 6: a reversal of Row, because Ruth Bader Ginsburg was alive

909
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 6: and Amy Cony Barrett was not yet on. But once

910
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 6: there was that switch the ones, just as Barrett had

911
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 6: succeeded Justice Ginsburg, they changed their legal arguments and they

912
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 6: said we want everything now, and they got it. And

913
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 6: that's why you see these other like minded advocates coming

914
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 6: to the Supreme Court with things that they had never

915
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 6: had an audience for before.

916
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: I keep going with this for a minute. Does it

917
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: feel like they've slowed down at all? Like after overturning Row,

918
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: taking it right away from women that they had had

919
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: for fifty years? Do you think that they've slowed down

920
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: and been like, oh too much? Or do you think

921
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: they're going to keep going remaking the country.

922
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 6: No, I don't think they've slowed down. I'll give one

923
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 6: small caveat to that, having to do with some external factors.

924
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 6: But I will just read you what you probably saw

925
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 6: at the beginning of the book, which is a line

926
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 6: from the dissent and Dubbs that I think does capture

927
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 6: the attitude of the court. No one should be confident

928
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 6: that this majority has done with its work. Just think

929
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 6: what they've taken since then. We have the Harvard and

930
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 6: University of North Carolina firm inve action cases. We have

931
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 6: the North Carolina independent State Legislature theory.

932
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: Okay, that wasn't going to come up.

933
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 6: Let me just tell you it's up there. It was

934
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 6: actually put to oral arguments. But there's a way that

935
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 6: it might get derailed because a new North Carolina Supreme

936
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 6: Court is reconsidering that issue, So there might be an

937
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 6: off ramp for the justices on that. But they haven't

938
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 6: obviously shied from racial affirmative action, and I would think

939
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 6: that this court would want to go further on that.

940
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 6: And then just what I mentioned about the website designer case,

941
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 6: where we have this new one that's kind of picked

942
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 6: up from the Masterpiece cake Shop dispute. I think this

943
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 6: is a court that would like to see the wall

944
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 6: of separation between church and state dissolve more that they

945
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 6: feel like religious conservatives have been facing more and more discrimination,

946
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 6: just as Alito talks about that all the time.

947
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: On the court and off Alito has some real brain worms.

948
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: Tell me what you're watching this session in the Supreme Court.

949
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 6: I really need more information about Justice Barrett. She doesn't

950
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 6: write on a lot of cases. She hasn't been writing

951
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 6: concurrences that would give us more of an insight into

952
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 6: where she's at. I'm just interested in if maybe she'll

953
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 6: break off more on death penalty cases, as she has

954
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 6: done a little bit. I just want to see how

955
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 6: strongly she's going to be with her fellow Trump appointees.

956
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 6: So far she has been, but she's still relatively new.

957
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 6: So I'm paying attention to her as a justice, trying

958
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 6: to see where she might be independent from the others.

959
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: Ellie Mistyle came on this podcast and he said that

960
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: during oral arguments, she seems very smart, even though she

961
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: votes with the conservative block one hundred percent of the time,

962
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 1: that he wonders if perhaps she is a person who

963
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: may ultimately be changed by the court.

964
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 6: That's interesting that he would say that. I mean, I

965
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 6: do feel that she's someone who will bear watching and

966
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 6: that she might be different. Now. When brit Kavanaugh came on,

967
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 6: there was some idea that maybe he would join forces

968
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 6: with the Chief a little bit more than he has,

969
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 6: and he's just moved further to the right. I think

970
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 6: the other thing I'm watching is what happens among those

971
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 6: three liberals. They have such a weak hand right now.

972
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 6: The most they can hope for is the Chief to

973
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 6: move over a little bit and to work along the

974
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 6: margins of cases with one or two other justices. But

975
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 6: they're very interesting in that Justice Sodomywa is now the

976
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 6: senior among them. I'll be watching for how she assigns dissents,

977
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 6: what she keeps for herself, what she passes on, because

978
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 6: that's some decent power there. And Elena Kagan, who had

979
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 6: worked very closely with Steven Bryer, and she had worked

980
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 6: with the Chief a little bit. She doesn't quite have

981
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 6: an ally right now, and I have a feeling that

982
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 6: she will be a little bit louder on the left.

983
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 6: She had worked to broke her compromises, but she doesn't

984
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 6: have the people to compromise with anymore with the way

985
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 6: it's changed. So I'll be watching her too. And of course,

986
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 6: our newest Justice, Katanji Brown Jackson, has been very active

987
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 6: at oral arguments, but I'm eager to see more of

988
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 6: her writing and to see how she will distinguish herself.

989
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a tough and strange Supreme Court, and

990
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: you don't see anything on the horizon that makes you

991
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: think there's any way in which the Court gets expanded

992
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: or anything like that happens.

993
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 6: I just don't, Milly. I'll tell you why. I think

994
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 6: that people have legitimate concerns about this court. It's not

995
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 6: going to change for a very long time. Given the

996
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 6: ages of the conservative justices. We're looking at a court

997
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 6: that will be with us for like fifty more years.

998
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 6: But when you think of even President Biden has said

999
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 6: he doesn't want term limits or court expansion, and I

1000
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 6: think so many Democrats and liberals who would criticize the

1001
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 6: court nonetheless have a real institutionalistvent and would resist that.

1002
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 6: And also there's a very strong argument that to have

1003
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 6: any kind of term limits you would have to amend

1004
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 6: the Constitution.

1005
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I hope you will come back.

1006
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 3: Thank you, Molly.

1007
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 6: It was fun being here, and please invite me back.

1008
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 6: I would have fun.

1009
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: So far.

1010
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: And it's historic consequences. Who is Jesse.

1011
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 7: Cannon BII, John fast So, Texas Republican Representative Brian Slatton,

1012
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 7: who is our age are really my age, since you're

1013
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 7: a denial that we're the same age. Who's married and

1014
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 7: a former youth minister. Well turns out he was sleeping

1015
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 7: with a twenty one year old and turn up budgetly

1016
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 7: and he's one of those guys who was always talking

1017
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 7: about Krumers.

1018
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, every accusation is a confession. Every accusation

1019
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: is a confession.

1020
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 7: The projection that's happening these days of this grubir thing

1021
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 7: is really really something, and one would hope that this

1022
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 7: would maybe be what silences them, but no, we have

1023
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 7: no hope of.

1024
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: That, right, no hope, not even a little. That's it

1025
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday,

1026
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics

1027
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what

1028
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep

1029
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.