1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 2: I conducted interviews for this series in Spanish and French. 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 2: Then I transcribed them and translated them, and we had 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: voice actors read them. So when you're listening to this, 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: please remember that everything you're hearing in English has recorded 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 2: another language, and it's through the lens of my translation 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: that you're hearing these people's words. As we always do, 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: we have included the sources for this podcast in the 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: show notes. I've also included a link to prim Ross 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: Legal aid fundraiser. People would like to help out. 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: The Deep Party. 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 3: Some of us are illegal and some are not wanted. 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 3: Our work contracts are and we have to move on 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: six hundred and miles to that Mexico bardier. They chase 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 3: us like our laws and rustlers like these. Goodbye by 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 3: Roslina Nissr, San Maria. 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 4: You all have a name. 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 5: When you ride a beggar. 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: And all I will call you will. 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 5: Be the party. 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: On the twenty eighth day of January nineteen forty eight, 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 2: a plane took off from Oakland, California. On board with 23 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 2: a crew, an Immigration Nationalization Service officer, and twenty eight 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: people who had come to the US to work in 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: the Brasero program. They were being sent to Well CenTra, 26 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: where they were to be deported to Mexico. The pilot, 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: Frankie Atkinson, had found a job flying DC three's as 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: a civilian after flying the legendarily dangerous Hump route between 29 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: India and China in the Second World War. His wife, Bobby, 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: herself the daughter of a migrant mother, was filling in 31 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: that day as the usual flight attendants weren't available on 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: board with twenty eight passengers, all headed back to Mexico 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: after United States, where they come to work, had decided 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: it didn't need or want them any longer. The plane 35 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: never landed in El Center. It was overdue for maintenance, 36 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: and its left engine caught fire. Then its wing ripped 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 2: off above Colinger, not so far from the fields where 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: many of them had worked for year after year. The 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: passengers were pulled out of the plane into the sky. 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: Most of them had never flown before. They must have 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 2: been nervous before they took off, and now the worst 42 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: fears were coming true. And those who survived the loss 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: of pressure and being ripped from the cabin, in some 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: cases still strapped to their seats must have had their 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: very worse fears confirmed as they plummeted toward the ground 46 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: that had only stopped being part of Mexico one hundred 47 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 2: years and four days before. 48 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 6: Their bodies or. 49 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: Parts of them were scattered through the canyon as the 50 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: plane slammed into the ground. There weren't enough seats for 51 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: all the passengers, and so three of them were to 52 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: sit on their luggage at the back. The plane was 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: over its maximum wake capacity, and that might have been 54 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: why the white smoke began pouring out of its left 55 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: engine over Colinger Frankie, the pilot had survived crashes in 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: this time of the Air Force, so hopefully he was 57 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: able to keep his pastures and crew calm until the 58 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: engine burst into flame. Some witnesses reported seeing people jump 59 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: from the plane after its left wing tore off and 60 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: began to plummet towards the ground, but it's just as 61 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: likely that they were pulled out. The plane hit the 62 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: ground about a mile east of Fresno County Industrial Road 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: camp or incarcerated people were being forced to work. In 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: Mates were immediately dispatched to comb the hills through remains 65 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: of people aboard the plane. Locals like Red Shoulders his rins. 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: A plane crashed on rushed up there to join them, 67 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,839 Speaker 2: and they hoped to help the survivors. On finding none, 68 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: they began to fight the fire. Around the wreckage, prisoners 69 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: found luggage, women's shoes, and babies, clothes, them bodies, some 70 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: of them still in their seats, littered throughout the canyon. 71 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: Only sixteen sets of remained, whoever identified, including the entire 72 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: crew in the irons. Guard Bobby, identified by her engagement ring, 73 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: was pregnant at the time. She was buried with Frankie 74 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: in New York. Frankie's co pilot, Martin Ewing, was buried 75 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: with military honors. Frank Chaffin, the I S Agent, was 76 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: buried back in Berkeley. The remains of the twenty eight deportees, 77 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: or whatever had been found of them, were buried on 78 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 2: mass in Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno. Hundreds of local 79 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: Latino people, most of whom didn't know them, turned up 80 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 2: towards to twenty eight coffins, some of which were empty, 81 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: be interred in the eighty four for a hole in 82 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: the ground that was reserved for them. The hole was 83 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: covered with dirt and eventually with grass, and there they 84 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: remained without names, without their families being told for three 85 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: quarters of a century. The next day, The New York 86 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: Times reported on the story the worst aviation accident in 87 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: California history. The names, ages, and hometowns of the crew 88 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: and the ions agent were given, along with quote twenty 89 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: eight Mexican agricultural workers. Their lives apparently were unremarkable, and 90 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: even in death, they didn't deserve the dignity of being 91 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: mentioned by name. Like people, It's a story that, eighty 92 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: years later, is only too familiar. The song we upened 93 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: this episode with was written by an American anti fascist 94 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: folk musician named Woody Guthrie. Like many of his songs, 95 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: it's a protest song. It recalls the plane wreck. There's 96 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: one home recording of him singing it to a tune 97 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: that isn't used to sing a song today. It was 98 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: only uncovered a few months ago. Guthrie has moved to 99 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: write it when he noticed that in the reporting on 100 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 2: the crash none of them migrants who were being deported 101 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: on the plane were named. He wrote the song as 102 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: a poem because at a time his Huntington's career had 103 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,679 Speaker 2: made it hard for him to sing and strum the guitar. Later, 104 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 2: a student of Colorado, a and m named Marty Hoffman 105 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: set the poem to a Mexican ranchera melody. It didn't 106 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: become popular as a song until Guthrie's friend Pete Seger 107 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 2: began performing get at concerts. Hoffman had played it to 108 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: him when Sega had visited the campus Ballad club. Guthrie, 109 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: whose guitar famously carried the slogan this machine Kills Fascists, 110 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 2: was in declining health by the time he wrote the 111 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: poem in nineteen forty eight, and he never lived to 112 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: hear it sung. Hoffman, who died by suicide in Red Rock, Arizona, 113 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: where he was teaching on the Navajo Reservation, died right 114 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: as Joan Bayez was recording the song in the studio. Today, 115 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: it's one of Guthrie's best known works, of course, when 116 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 2: he wrote the song to his discuss, Guthrie didn't know 117 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 2: the names of the people on the plane. He imagined 118 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: them in his poem as Juan Maria Rosalita, the sort 119 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: of people he might meet on any given day as 120 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: a touring musician who was finally received by working people 121 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: wherever he went. 122 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 6: I know one a Maria and a. 123 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: Rose from the Darien Gap I've also searched in the 124 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: hills and the mountains the remains of people whose names 125 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: I don't know eighty years later, So the song resonates 126 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: with me. 127 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 4: My father's own father. He waited that river. 128 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 7: Other before him have done just the same. 129 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 4: They died in the hills, and they've died in the 130 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 4: valley somewhere to heaven without any name. 131 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: Goodbye to my one. Good I rose a leader. 132 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 8: Body use me, I mean zusibody else. 133 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 5: You won't have a name. 134 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: When you ride the big airfay Ah, they will call 135 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: you will. 136 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 4: Leader before me. 137 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: The twenty five men and three women aboard came to 138 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: the US to fill labor shortages after World War Two 139 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: as a result of an agreement between the two states 140 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: called the Brassero Program. The Mexican government didn't want to 141 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: lose its whole agricultural workforce and wanted to ensure that 142 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: workers in the US would send a portion of their 143 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: wages home, so it held these wages in accounts, which 144 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: some of them never saw again for years. The Mexican 145 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: government refused to extend the program to Texas because of 146 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: racist violencer. People who entered the program waited months, and 147 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: when they crossed the border, they were subject to abusive searches, 148 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: spraying with DDT and in some places zyclon B, same 149 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: gas used in the gas chambers the Holocaust was used 150 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: to hose down their clothes. When they got to the US, 151 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: many of them worked in very poor conditions. Many chose 152 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: not to wait and instead crossed without papers. Some farmers 153 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: hired them for much less than the minimum Bressero program 154 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: wage and put them to work in worse conditions than 155 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: the program permitted. Others work their alloted contracts in the program, 156 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: and they stayed, hoping to make a better life in 157 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: the USA or to earn some money they could keep 158 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: before they went home. Many of them came and went 159 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: several times returning home until them need to make more 160 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: money overwhelmed the desire to remain and work their aheedroes 161 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: or parcels across Mexico. The Mexican government wanted those to 162 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 2: travel without a contract to be barred from being hired, 163 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: and in many case government officials in Mexico accepted bribes 164 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: to allow worker to enter the program. Just as it 165 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: is today, everyone made money apart from the migrants. Barsserro's 166 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: letters were censored to prevent them asking their families to 167 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 2: join them, but nonetheless, a racist panic about undocumented migration began, 168 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: especially after Frankie and thousands of others return from the 169 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 2: war and the manpower shortage was not so acute. This, 170 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: combined with demands from the Mexican government, led to Eisenhower 171 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: eventually adopting a program whose name is a slur to catch, detain, 172 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: and deport Mexican people to parts of their birth country 173 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 2: they'd never been to, far from the border, far from 174 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: their families and communities. The operation, which focused on rapid 175 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 2: deportations and border regions, is often cited as an inspiration 176 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: for today's border ratio. Seventy six years after Guthrie wrote 177 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: his song, very little has changed in the way the 178 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 2: legacy media covers migration. Maybe that's why everyone from Dolly 179 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: Parton to Bob Dylan, Chris Christofferson, will and Jennings, Johnny Cash, 180 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: Willie Nelson, and Bruce Springsteen a sung a version of 181 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: this song. Here's Johnny Cash describing the song before a 182 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:32,599 Speaker 2: TV performance. 183 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 7: Johnny Cash, I understand this is a true story. This 184 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 7: from the our album The Highwayman. Johonna Rodriguez was on 185 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 7: that album as well. On this song, you understand it 186 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 7: is a true story what it got He wrote this 187 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 7: about a plane crash, and was it Los Gatos Canyon 188 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 7: taken a planeload of Mexicans back after they worked for 189 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 7: whatever they could get in this country. It's one of 190 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 7: those old stories about Maltreed, man of Aliens. 191 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 6: One of those old stories. 192 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: He says, it seems so hopeful in nineteen eighty seven, 193 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: like we wouldn't be writing anymore because most people could 194 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: accept that nobody should treat other people like that anyway. 195 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: That was before country music was entirely dominated by boot liquors. 196 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: And here I am playing it to you again, eighty 197 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: years after it was written, because it is still relevant. 198 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 6: Here's Dolly Parton singing it. 199 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 8: My father's own father. 200 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 4: He waited that room. 201 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 8: They took all the money. 202 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 5: He made it his life. 203 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 4: My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees. 204 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 8: They rolled the truck too. They took down and down. 205 00:11:53,720 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 8: The airplane caught fire over Lascattos Kenyon, a fireball of 206 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 8: lightning that shook all who These dear friends are scattered 207 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 8: like drives. The RADIOSI they were just departy. Good night 208 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 8: to mind good bye. 209 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: I, as a song puts it. The bodies of the 210 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: workers were scattered like dry leaves across Los Gatos Canyon. 211 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: The bodies of those twenty eight people, the parts that 212 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 2: were recovered, were buried in a mass grave at the 213 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno, mark later thanks to a 214 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: donation with a small plaque calling the Mexican nationals, although 215 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 2: one of them was also Spanish. The hard work of 216 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 2: finding these people's names was taken up by people not 217 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: even alive when that plane crashed. Many of their relatives 218 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 2: did not even know they were buried there until Carlos Rascon, 219 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: the Fresno Diocese director of Cemeteries, and Tim Hernandez, an 220 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: author and professor at UTL Paso, dedicated themselves to naming them. 221 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: In twenty thirteen, a new headzone was directed with their 222 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: names in the ceremony, which packed the cemetery. Hernandez had 223 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 2: found after years of hard work, by locating one of 224 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 2: their nephews a copy of El Faro, a local Spanish 225 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: language newspaper, which provided a list that was more accurate 226 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 2: than that in the Fresno County Records Department. It wasn't 227 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: until September twenty eighth of twenty twenty four, when I 228 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: just left Primrose and Kimberly and LaaS Blancas that a 229 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 2: proper memorial was built for them in the Canyon. Families 230 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: traveled from across the US and Mexico to open the memorial. 231 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: Some of them were funded by Woody Guthrie's grandchildren. The 232 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 2: names of all twenty eight of them were included. They 233 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 2: were Miguel Negrette, Alvarez, Cisco, Jamas, Turan, Santiago Garcia, Elisondo, 234 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: Rosalio Padia, Estrada, Vernabe, Lopez, Garcia, Ramon Perees Gonzalez, Tomas 235 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: Avigna de Garcia, Salvador Sandoval, Ernandez, Gui, Lupe Ramerez, Lara, Severo, Medina, Lara, Elias, Trujillo, Massias, 236 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: Jose Rodriguez, Massias, Tomas Padia, Marquez, Luis Lopez, Merdina, Manuel Caldern, Marino, 237 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: Luis Queves, Miranda, Martin, Razo, Navarro, Ignacio Perez, Navarro, Roman, Ochoa, Ochoa, 238 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: Apollonio Ramirez, Placentia, Alberto Carlos Regosa, Gjui, Lupe Ernandez, Rodriguez, 239 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: Maria Santana Rodriguez, Juan Valenzuela Ruiz, when Ceslao Flores Ruiz, 240 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: Josse Valdivia Sanchez, Jeesus Mesa, Santos Baldomero, Marcus Torres, Francis 241 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: c Atkinson, Lillian k Atkinson, Marion h Ewing, and Frank E. 242 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 6: Chaffin. Think about the song an Awful Lot. 243 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: The first time I heard it was known a CD 244 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: compilation of Spanish anarchist songs. The fundamental decency of giving 245 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: the deceased name, treating them like people, not a human waste, 246 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: seems so basic, and yet three quarters of century later, 247 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: reporting hasn't got any better. A few times in my 248 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: years of the border, I've searched with people and the 249 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: remains of people whose names I don't know, just as 250 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: some of my friends have arited little wooden crosses, some 251 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: with names and some without, to people who he never 252 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: got to meet, but somehow still grieve. There are lots 253 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: of people whose names and faces are Duno who never 254 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: made it to the USA. They didn't even get an 255 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: anonymous story. The people who die for the American Green 256 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: are totally ignored in the coverage of migration. The real 257 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: cost of our border externalization, little children and loving parents 258 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: who have to die so politicians VII the Party can 259 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 2: brag about secure borders are completely invisible to most people 260 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 2: in this country. Seventy seven years less, one week after 261 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: Times published its story which are raised and People killed 262 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: in the Los Gatos Canyon, it published a video. The 263 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: video shows Primros lying on the floor in agony. She 264 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: climbed the wall on the ladder and then fell into 265 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: the USA. On landing, she broke her leg. The story, 266 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: just like that story in nineteen forty eight, doesn't name 267 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: her or Kim. It refers to a group of migrants 268 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: and calls Primras one woman too fair. The piece did 269 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 2: interview other migrants, but as is often the case, and 270 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 2: migrants from Africa get the worst treatment of all. The 271 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: piece and the hundreds of other social media posted a 272 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: video from other outlets. Don't tell readers about the persecution 273 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: and torture. Primrose faced at home about the fact she 274 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 2: doesn't know what her father disappeared to and that her 275 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: whole family is in hiding. It doesn't bother to mention 276 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: that she and Kim walk for six months to get 277 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: to the border, that they were kidnapped, robbed and traumatized 278 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 2: on the way. Doesn't even give their names. Unlike the 279 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 2: people who died in Los Gatos Canyon, Primrose is here 280 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: to tell us how it feels to see her pain 281 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 2: turned into pai views by outlets with huge global platforms. 282 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's you to be honest. If you now, I'm 283 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 5: sure it's embarrassing me because when I was in Texas, 284 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 5: like if I made to people, they say, are you 285 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 5: not the one will feel done for me? It's like 286 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 5: something else because I was not a apie for the 287 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 5: person all put me in social media. Even even when 288 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 5: I go to the comments, some of the comments were 289 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 5: paid and the other people they don't even know what 290 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 5: was really happened to me. I was running for my life, 291 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 5: but people they just comment whatever they want. So that 292 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 5: video even now, I'm not even happy. Is I know 293 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 5: people they make money with my video? Maybe you was 294 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 5: supposed the person who posted me was supposionately to close 295 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 5: my face or to do something. And a lot of 296 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 5: people they even don't know where I am. But because 297 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 5: of that video, it went viral. Even in my country. 298 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 5: People they were sending messages. That's why the other people 299 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 5: they went to my mom and studied torture DA because 300 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 5: they taught me about me in country, but because of 301 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 5: that video, they went to disturb my mom. She's not 302 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 5: even where I grew up now in the door. She 303 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 5: just move. She's somewhere else now. So I don't even 304 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 5: know who posted the video, and I think I need to. 305 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 5: I don't know what can I say, but I'm very 306 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 5: angry with the person who posted the video. Maybe they 307 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 5: should maybe asking me, or to find me, or to 308 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 5: hide my face and the waste. Kimberly, she was theay 309 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 5: my daughter. When you ask her about the video, she 310 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 5: cries to be honest, just. 311 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: Like those people who died in the plane crash. Promotes 312 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 2: yourselves better. I first saw the video of her falling 313 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: on TikTok. I think I felt like it was shared 314 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 2: by the Wall Street Journal, but I haven't been able 315 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 2: to locate the post again. Where I saw a friend, 316 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: someone else saw a way to make it back. It's 317 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: a kind of extractive reporting that I spent my whole 318 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 2: career trying not to replicate. The Times and plenty of 319 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: other outlets have what they see as high standards of 320 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: journalistic objectivity. I don't think it will surprise anyone that 321 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: I fall afoul of those, which is fine. I don't 322 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 2: want to be trying to find the middle ground between 323 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: someone running for her life and someone trying to make 324 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: money from her misery. Nonetheless, we have to live in 325 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: a world where the vast majority of people get their 326 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 2: information from outlets who see migrants of stories and a 327 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: political issue, not as people. We have to live with 328 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: the consequences of that. We're seeing them all now every day. 329 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: This isn't a story about the New York Times. A 330 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: long time ago, I realized my career wasn't going in 331 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: the direction that was going to put me on the 332 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: mastthead of those big newspapers, because I care about people 333 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 2: like Primose and Kimberly and not about big newspapers. This 334 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: is a story about Primos and Kimberly, So let's hear 335 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 2: where they left. 336 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 6: Zimbabwe. 337 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: Zimbabwe, if you don't know, has been ruled by the 338 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: same party since nineteen eighty, the Zono PF. The ZONOPF 339 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: has been led for three decades with Robert Mugabi has 340 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: been the only party to hold the presidency since independence. 341 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: The opposite only changed hands once when mcgabay's former VP 342 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: replaced him after mcgaby resigned and a threat of impeachment 343 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: at a coup. The opposition has taking different forms over time, 344 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 2: but never managed to dislodge one party. When it has 345 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 2: got close, it has been met with extreme violence. So 346 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: I think Primerose knows only too well. 347 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 5: It's not like we just it's a luxury to come 348 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 5: to America for biggers. If I wanted to come to 349 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 5: America for bigger I would maybe go and apply for 350 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 5: the visa. But us is in youth is people who 351 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 5: wants to change our country. They don't even make you 352 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 5: to find a way to go to make a visa 353 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 5: because the Zimbabwe Zee a tough country, especially for US 354 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 5: young people, young generation. They can even kill you in Simbabwe. 355 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 5: We can't even protesting for our rights in Simbabwe because 356 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 5: we scared for the government is running the candruler which 357 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 5: is NPF. We are really scared. I ive people, a 358 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 5: lot of people lose a lot of friends. Kidney killed 359 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 5: me also in Zimbabwe. They even tortured me, wanted to 360 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 5: kill me. So that's why even I don't even know 361 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 5: he's Kimbally's father. Since twenty seven, I don't even know 362 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 5: where is maybe it's dead, is not even dead. I 363 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 5: don't even know where is because he also run away. 364 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 5: Even now is I'm speaking right now, I'm stressed, like 365 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 5: I don't even know it's my father. Yeah, I don't 366 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 5: even know where he is. Also just so our governments, 367 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 5: our Zimbabwe, it's a really tove for us. Yeah, they 368 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 5: don't give us time or you don't give us. As 369 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 5: a young generation, they think themselves and then they are 370 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 5: they are families and the economy there's no even if 371 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 5: you go to school, there's no jobs. There's a lot 372 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 5: of graduates people staying home. They are vendors, hoodcasts, no jobs. Nothing. 373 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 5: If you want to stay in the in for your rights, 374 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 5: they tortured you, killed you, disappear. There's a lot of 375 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 5: people will disappear in Zimbabwe just because see your needs 376 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 5: to change. 377 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: And the Mugabe Zimbabwe experience rapid economic declient hyperinflation at 378 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 2: various times. Mcgaby has played with some form of colonial powers, 379 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 2: which is reasonable and they quote gay mafia, which is 380 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 2: what you get when you have a single manager of 381 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: state ruling by whim from the moment of liberation until. 382 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 6: Just two years before his death. 383 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: Like many in her country, like many people from all 384 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 2: over the world, wanted a better future. It was something 385 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: she and her family had advocated for. Having seen people 386 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: she loved disappear, never knowing if they were alive or dead, 387 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: never even getting the closure of a funeral, she decided 388 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 2: she couldn't risk leaving Kimberly alone, and so she took 389 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: her daughter and fled. They fled to South Africa, but 390 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 2: violence followed them there. 391 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 5: But especially in South Africa, people are killed with the sonophobia. 392 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 5: People are killed, you know, so it's not also even 393 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 5: safe for us to stay in South Africa. That's why, 394 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 5: especially in me, to be honest, de Jena was not 395 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 5: even planned. I was just asking people and when I 396 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 5: reached Bras people, they were just talking lets gordless, godless. 397 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 5: But I was also following those people. Do I get you? 398 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 5: So it's not like we came here for Lajari or 399 00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 5: for what. 400 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 4: For me. 401 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 5: I just came here for my life. I just ran 402 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 5: for my life. I just need my life in my 403 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 5: daughter's life, because if I died today, I don't if 404 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 5: anybody can look after my daughter, especially when in my country, 405 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 5: because things are tough for my mom because my father 406 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 5: just disappeared. 407 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 2: What people can't easily travel around the world. Concepts like xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, homophobia, 408 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: they're not just American issues, the global issues. And that's 409 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: why we say nobody's free until everybody's free. 410 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 5: We just grew up in a poor family, so but 411 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 5: it's tough to be honest. It's a relative. 412 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 4: For me. 413 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 5: I'm not even one hundred percent, Okay, I'm still lots 414 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 5: of memories trace. Yeah, and I remember one of my friends, 415 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 5: the name was Memory. She died also, we went together, 416 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 5: died in Zimbabwe when they kidnaped us for five days. 417 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 5: So she just died. Listen to a twenty twenty twenty twenty. 418 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 6: She just died. 419 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 5: Because we were fighting for our future. 420 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 6: Yeah, but. 421 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 5: It's tough. 422 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's me talking to Primerse on that river bank 423 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: about but why she left South Africa. 424 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 5: I'm just trying. No, it's only me and my daughter. 425 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 6: Yeah. 426 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: Was it hard to see a future for her there? 427 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 5: It's very hard. 428 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 6: Explain the situation there when. 429 00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 5: Neil the situation where in where the situation for me, 430 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 5: it was tough. I just ran away to South Africa 431 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 5: and South Africa was not safe. Sosilophobia and uh, they 432 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 5: almost kill me and my boyfriend and even my my 433 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 5: big father was abusive too, my teprasive because of the 434 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 5: politics opposition party. So it was now even in South Africa, 435 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 5: I was not safe at all. It was those people. 436 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 5: They were like following me and my daughter. So I 437 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 5: spent three months on the road coming here. I leave 438 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 5: South Africa, I think fourth of July, till now I'm 439 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 5: in Panama. I'm still walking. 440 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 6: That was September. 441 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 2: She finally entered the USA in January, crossing into a 442 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: very different country than the one she'd set out for. 443 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: Her story is unique. Every migrant story is, but it's 444 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 2: not unusual. You spend as much time talk to migrants 445 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: as I do, you will learn a lot about the 446 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 2: hardships regular people face all over the world. You'll also 447 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 2: learn about the dreams people have and how little they 448 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 2: really differ. Let's take, for example, the protest we recently 449 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: saw in Nepal. Those didn't come as a huge shock 450 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: because I've met dozens of Nepalese political opposition members. 451 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 6: Here's when I spoke to us. 452 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 2: We sheltered in the porch of Nember our house in 453 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: Bahjiquito in a rainstorm last September. The little room was 454 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 2: filled with sleeping pads and tired bodies. I spent a 455 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: lot of time there sitting on the floor talking to people. 456 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: A newt story is one of many I heard just 457 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: in that one room, from all over the world. 458 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's not safe in my country. That's why 459 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 4: I want to go to the States, because there is 460 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 4: right and fredom. 461 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, what makes it not safe. 462 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 4: In your country? Yeah? There are many political reasons. Yeah, 463 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 4: and I am from a different political like call Congress, Okay, 464 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 4: I'm from Congress. That's a small member, not a big 465 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 4: too man, but opposition party. You know, they one they 466 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 4: won the constitution. So yeah, so they think you are Yeah, okay, if. 467 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: You wandering how someone come from the mountains in Nepal 468 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: to a small village in the Panamanian jungle and to 469 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: be briefly sharing a tiny room with people from Venezuela, Cameroon, China, 470 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: and Bolivia, all seeking the same thing. 471 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 4: His how I took a plan from Nepal to Dubai. 472 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 4: He said there two months, okay. Then after that I 473 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 4: went to Qatar. Yeah. From Qatar, I went to Brazil. 474 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 4: I stayed in Refusiician for at least two weeks. Then 475 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 4: after that I came out from Brazil, took a bus, 476 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 4: then traveled for two months, a long time, maybe twenty 477 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 4: four hours or twenty five hours. Wow. Then I went 478 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 4: to I caught up some friends. They took me to Bolivia. 479 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 4: We need to cross to Jungle. But it was small, 480 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 4: not a long way. Yeah, it was good. And after 481 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 4: Bolivia I took the ride to bus. I took at 482 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 4: least maybe forty eight hours. 483 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 8: In a bus. 484 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. Wow. Man. Then I went to the border of 485 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 4: Peru and there was some boat to take us across, 486 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 4: and I went across to Peru, stayed in a hotel 487 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 4: that night. Then after that it came out and again 488 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 4: rode the bus for twenty six hours to Lima. Then 489 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 4: after Lima again twenty six hours to Tulcan. Then after Tiltan, 490 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 4: I got a taxi and that taxi was to cross 491 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 4: the border to Ecuador. Okay, And so I went to 492 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 4: Ecuador in that taxi and they take us in hotel. 493 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 4: Stayed for three hours in the hotel. Then at night 494 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 4: again traveling wow. Then again traveled to Colombia. After Colombia, 495 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 4: rode another bus and rode to Colombia and Panama border. 496 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 4: Okay to Nicoli, Nicoli to Nicoli and we stayed maybe 497 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 4: one week in Nicoli. After that, I took a boat 498 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 4: to Kapurgana. From Kapurgana, uh, there was some bikes. The 499 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 4: pike took us to a camp at the border. 500 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 5: Wow. 501 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 4: We at the camp, I riased nearly at six pm. 502 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 4: Then after some people came there and they were responsible 503 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 4: to across the border to the Panama. 504 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 8: Yeah. 505 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 4: Then we walked through at nine pm. We walked through. 506 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 4: Maybe we walked to till here forty four hours. Wow. 507 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 6: Yeah. 508 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: I asked a nuke what he had to say to 509 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 2: people in America because he had excellent English, I have 510 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 2: this platform to share. He was more than aware of 511 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 2: the US dis coursed around migrants, and he said he'd 512 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: been watching videos about it. 513 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: Well, thus everyone is human being. Yeah, yeah, because we 514 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 4: have some problems, so we need to leave our country, right. 515 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 7: Yeah. 516 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 6: We need to be kind to each other. 517 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, we need to be kind. Yeah. 518 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: I haven't heard from a nuke since then. I have 519 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 2: no idea where he and his friends are or how 520 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 2: the journey across three continents ended. So many other migrants, 521 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: he disappeared for me in the massive humanity heading north. 522 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: I still think about all the people that haven't heard from. 523 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll see people who look like them and I'll 524 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 2: get excited. But if they're in the USA now, they're 525 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 2: probably afraid of going out much. They came all this way, 526 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 2: they risked their lives, they saw people die, and now 527 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 2: once again the hiding from men in masks with guns. 528 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: His Rose, young woman from Bolivia. Think about Rose a lot. 529 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: She was a young mum traveling alone, trying to find 530 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: a better future for her family and risking her life 531 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 2: in the process. She seemed young and happy most of 532 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: the time, but she had a sort of tiredness in 533 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 2: her eyes that really stayed with me after several conversations 534 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 2: we had in Bajjigito. I don't really know why. It 535 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: just seemed so sad that she was away from her kids, 536 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 2: and someone who so obviously was predisposed to joy looked 537 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 2: so tired and sad all on her own there. It 538 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: felt like her only chance had a better future. She 539 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: was very open about how hard it all was, but 540 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 2: one day I didn't feel like recording, just sitting on 541 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: the side of the raised walkway and Bahajiquito with her 542 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: feet in the hot, wet mud, watching people walk by, 543 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 2: talking with her like I talked with any other friend 544 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: about our owns and our families and the election that 545 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 2: was two months away. At that point, she was hanging 546 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 2: out with a group of venezuelansin but they must have 547 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 2: been separated because they've asked me about her since, just 548 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 2: like so many other people, I have no idea where 549 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: she is. It seems so sad to me that we've 550 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 2: made a word where a woman who wants a future 551 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 2: for our kids has to risk her life, maybe lose 552 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 2: it for all liner just to come here and ask 553 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: for help and then still be denied, and then if 554 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 2: she gets here, to be chased, harried and harassed. 555 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 8: The situation there in Bolivia right now, we're practically economically well, 556 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 8: we're in very bad shape. It's kind of like Venezuela, 557 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 8: who motivates me to travel is more than anything work 558 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 8: because there you can't wor you can't earn enough. You know, 559 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 8: you have to work a lot, but they pay you 560 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 8: very little, you know, so there's a lot of a 561 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 8: lot of poverty. So that's what motivates me to keep 562 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 8: going to work in another country, to migrate, because I 563 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 8: also have a family, they have children, so that's what 564 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 8: motivates me to go to another country to work. It's 565 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 8: a future for them, yes, a better future for them, 566 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 8: for my children. 567 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 6: I asked her to share her journey. 568 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: How have been just to get this little wet village 569 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: that welcomes people in the middle of the jungle? 570 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 8: Sal We left Friday morning to go to the jungle. Right, Well, 571 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 8: let me explain, honestly, it's not easy. It's very hard 572 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 8: because I've seen quite a few people. There are many 573 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 8: pregnant women, there are women with children. There are elderly people, 574 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 8: there are adults. There are people who come with crutches. 575 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 8: There are people who break bones if their feet fall 576 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 8: off the edge. There are people who faint. There are 577 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 8: quite a lot of people and have difficult situations because 578 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 8: you have to climb a hill which takes at least 579 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 8: eight hours. You have to climb. You have to carry 580 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 8: your backpack, your food, your clothes, your supplies, everything you 581 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 8: need for the journey, your water. So it's very hard, 582 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:39,919 Speaker 8: very hard. And you go up up and you arrive 583 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 8: at what is the border of Panama with Columbia, which 584 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 8: is called the Flags. You get there and from there 585 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 8: you have to go down, down, down, that takes at 586 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 8: least another eight hours. You have to go down all day. 587 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 8: On Friday, it took us all day. We had to 588 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 8: sleep on the side on the edge of a river bank. 589 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 5: More or less. 590 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 8: There were about two hundred of us, if I'm not mistaken, 591 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 8: we are about two hundred people, one hundred and fifty 592 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 8: two hundred people traveling and sleeping there. We camped two 593 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 8: hundred of us. Yes, there are children. There are babies 594 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 8: two months old, one month old, three months old, one 595 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 8: year old. So there are children, and they are really 596 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 8: the ones who suffer the most on this journey. Yes, 597 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 8: So that night we slept. The next day, which would 598 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 8: be Saturday, we came back again at six in the morning. 599 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 8: We set off walking all day. We had to climb hills. 600 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 8: We had to cross rivers that come up to your shoulders, 601 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 8: up to your neck. They really come up. There are 602 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 8: quite a few rivers. There's mud, there are mountains. There 603 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 8: are those rocks that you slip, go and die. There 604 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 8: are mountains that you have to climb. Of course, if 605 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 8: you don't want to go meet God, you have to 606 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 8: climb mountains that are slippery with stones, rocks, And you 607 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 8: keep going like that all day downriver walking walking walking. 608 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 8: There are people who got left behind, There are people 609 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 8: who came with children. They get stuck, they faint right. 610 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 8: It's very hard, it's very difficult, and I know that 611 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 8: all of us who immigrated here are doing the same thing. 612 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 8: We are not bad people. 613 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 6: We are good people. 614 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 8: We do it for a purpose which is our family, right, 615 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 8: our children. We need a good economy to support our family, 616 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 8: our children. 617 00:38:53,440 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 6: But I think I asked for if that was, and 618 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 6: kept her going. 619 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 8: Yes, I have a dream to go there because just 620 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 8: like everyone else, like every person, I need to get 621 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 8: ahead financially to provide for my children, to get ahead. 622 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 8: So my dream has always been to be there. You know, 623 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,879 Speaker 8: I set that goal for myself before, but I didn't 624 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 8: think it would be like this, so difficult, and once 625 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 8: you're in there, well there's nothing you can do but 626 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 8: get out, move forward, get out of there, because you 627 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 8: can't go back, you can't retreat. You have to get out. 628 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 8: So my dream is that to provide for my children. 629 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 8: I have two sons waiting for me, I have my 630 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 8: family and my dad, my brothers. So for that reason 631 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 8: we set off to go there. We are still going there. 632 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,399 Speaker 2: The American dream is such a nebulous concept. Often it's 633 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 2: used as a byword for exceptionalism and the idea that 634 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 2: you the US offers a true meritocracy where hard working 635 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 2: people can thrive in the marketplace of ideas that isn't true. 636 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 2: But dreams don't have to be true, not they have 637 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 2: to be that far fetched. Most people come into America 638 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 2: no that work hard in the fields, cleaning homes, or 639 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: maybe as a lion cook. The hands and knees and 640 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: backs will do the labor that allows for privileged Americans 641 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 2: to still believe in their version of the American dream, 642 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 2: the one where millionaires become billionaires. But the chance to 643 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 2: work and be paid to speak, and not fear consequences, 644 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 2: to be able to feed your kids enough they grow 645 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 2: up healthy and strong. Those are dreams too, the dreams 646 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 2: that people are willing to risk their lives for, and 647 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 2: dreams that I've seen them chase up and down mountains 648 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 2: in the jungle and in the freezing cold and the 649 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 2: baking heats of the deserts are mountains of California. But 650 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 2: now even those who achieve their humble dreams are in 651 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 2: danger of losing them. And tomorrow I want to talk 652 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 2: about the end of the American Dream and the beginning 653 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: of an American nightmare for millions and migrants who are 654 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 2: already here. Every time I heard the various versions that 655 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,879 Speaker 2: Woody Guthrie song, I think about the friends that made 656 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 2: the jungle, who, as a song says, maybe went to 657 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 2: heaven without any names. 658 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 6: So before I go, I want to share it whole. 659 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 2: Knowami's American Dream one more time, because I think it's 660 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 2: important not to forget what the entire force of the 661 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 2: most powerful state in the world has dedicated itself to destroying. 662 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 8: Why am I. 663 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 2: Me me me me me Amia aa Emi Mia. 664 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 665 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 666 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 667 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 668 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it Could Happen here 669 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.