WEBVTT - Peter Asher 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:15.400 guest this week is producer, star manager executive producer rack 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:20.840 On Tour the legendary literally Peter Asher. Okay, you grow 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.880 up in a house of overachievers. Your father and mother 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.800 are not, you know, the pedestrian people. No, they were 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.200 both very determined, successful people. It's true. My father was 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.599 a physician and did very well and wrote a lot 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.400 of books and stuff, and it's quite well known in 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.200 the medical field still to this day. And my mother 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.600 was a musician, played the obo and was Obo professor 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.000 at the Royal Academy Music in London. So, and your 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.560 father literally diagnosed certain conditions, well he if you're looking 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.839 up now, the primary and what was his name, His 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.840 name was Richard Ashe and he identified and named Munchausen syndrome. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.520 And an example of his eccentricity is that, you know, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.320 usually and doctors identified disease, they name it after themselves. True, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.800 with Munchausen syndrome you get people going. But who was 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.280 Dr muncha and explained for my audience what that is. Well, 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.280 it's the it's the illness you probably have heard of 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.080 where people make up diseases that they've have had. It's 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.839 not just like lingering or it's when you you actually 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.440 enjoy the process of being examined by doctors and being 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:27.040 the center of attention in that way. Um, so they 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.560 he discovered that there were people who are actually going 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.720 around the country to different hospitals complaining of these conditions 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.600 purely in order to enjoy, believe it or not, the 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.120 the attention that that being a sufferer gave you. And 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:41.520 because by the time they go to the third or 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.399 fourth hospital, they already had scars from exploratory surgery and stuff. 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.280 So it all sounded very credible. And then stopping somebody 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.880 else identified Munchausen by proxy, which is much nasty where 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.960 people use their children to that saying that's when we 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.480 read about the paper all the time. But he identified 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.560 it and named it after Baron Munchausen, of course, who 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.240 was a legendary of fictitious teller of of of told 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.120 stories and as in the Adventures of Baron munchaus in 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.280 the book and the film by Terry Gilliam, So he 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.960 named it after the baron. Rather is that his personality 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.360 was he a little offbeat? Yes, and he was. He 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.239 was brilliant and a brilliant writer. He wrote extremely well. 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:20.919 Now I grew up in a family where we all 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.720 had dinner together every evening. Now did you have that 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.680 in your house as often as possible? I think yes? 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.200 So were you interacting with sudden you all at breakfast 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.000 every day and quite off way at dinner? And and 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.760 did your father interact with you? Yes? And to what 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.160 degree you to get you believe your personality from him? Uh? 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.280 I think. I think my love of logic and science 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.639 and literature and good writing all came from him. Um. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.560 Those so those uh characteristics which I value them, which 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:51.440 I think did come from my father, And and both 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.040 my sisters have those same characteristics as well. And your 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.080 mother was a music teacher. So did she have you 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.120 learning music in the house? She did? Um? Well, I 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.160 was very uncoperative. I'm the one. I'm the child who 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.400 kept up least with my piano lessons and and formal 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.800 music training. I was very lazy about it and and 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.960 sort of didn't uncooperative about it. Both my sisters read 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:16.800 music much much better than I do. But was there 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.480 always music in the house? Yes? Always? Um. My mother 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.400 started as a working musician, of course, when I was young. 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:25.840 Apparently I spent the first year or so of my 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.799 life on the road. Really because okay, so your parents 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.280 were married. Your father's a doctor and your mother's going 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.920 on the road. Yes, because at that point suddenly the 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.320 orchestras were I'd run out of people because all the 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:43.480 men were conscripted or volunteered. And what your father was more, 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.360 he was in a doctor in London, um, dealing with 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.000 victims of the bombing and all that stuff, you know, 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.280 that made him a lifelong pacifist. Being dealing with all 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.120 the blown up people in the Blitz was more than 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:57.360 enough to convince him it was not a good idea. 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:02.120 And uh, my mom, that was when the big orchestras 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.520 had women in them only as a lost resort. Women 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.000 only they were My mother was telling me once how 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.080 they were instructed. When the whole orchestras in the symphony orchestra, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.640 the Halle orchestra, whatever it was, walked on stage for 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.359 a concert, the women was instructed to walk behind the 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.720 man as unobtrusively as possible. Wow. So your mother when 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:22.920 she went on the road with you, and apparently we 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.680 the orchestras run the road entertaining troops, and when I 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.440 was a baby, I'm told that she I was left. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:31.400 A lot of the women would have babies and they 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.039 would leave them under the care of some some burly 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.600 sergeant major in the room somewhere while the concert took place, 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.240 and your mother went on the road for the compensation 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.240 or because she was filling a niche I think because 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:44.840 it was a gig, you know it was. She was 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.760 a musician, and somebody offered you a place in a 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.719 major orchestra, you took it. I guess. I don't remember 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.480 asking that, asking that particular question. But there were three 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.960 kids in the family. Uh yeah, Well when I was 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.560 a little baby, there was only me. I was the oldest. 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.760 So if she's telling about when I was a little baby, 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.640 which I think she was, maybe she hadn't even had 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.839 Jane yet, let alone Clad. Okay, so your sister is 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:13.039 famous actress, genius and clear? What was Clear's life about? 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.880 Claire became a school teacher, then at mistress, and then 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.719 a school inspector um and now she occasionally still works 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.200 for Offsted, which is the school inspection agency in the UK, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.560 and she kind of inspects the inspectors or something as 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.080 a on a consultant basis. She's the cleverest of all 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.920 of us in and you still have contact with her. Oh, yes, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.279 very much. So okay, so you're in the house, and 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.640 at what point do you become infected with popular music? 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.599 Quite late? I was a classical music fan. Then I 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:51.719 was a jazz fan, which I do when I'm terrible 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.560 at dates, I should warn you. But I suppose when 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.960 I was ten, eleven, twelve, I don't know, it's okay, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.880 But when you were into jazz, because you know America, 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.080 you know, we have a different frame of reference. Was 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.239 jazz the sound that people were listening to? No, uh, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.640 not so much. Although track jazz as we called you know, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.960 Dixie Land did enjoy a great vogue in the UK. 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.840 But modern jazz bebop that I was enthrolled with was 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.279 at a smaller audience. It was not popular music, but 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.080 it was cool music. It was you know, how did 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.479 you get turned onto it? I don't know. Uh. I 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.200 had a friend who was a huge fan, maybe he 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.719 was a fan before I was, who had a better 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.039 record collection than I did. But you started, you know, 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.280 once you're into it, you start collecting all those all 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.240 your Charlie Parker and thelonis someone can Max Roach and 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.400 all those records. It becomes the thing, you know. And 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.840 those were all forty five. No, they were albums very 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.200 often ten inch albums, tenny inch album really they played 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.320 at thirty three. Yes, at that point there were ten 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.000 inch and twelve inch and because getting American albums was 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.919 the coolest, you know, albums on Blue Notes and Prestige 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.280 and all those great labels. The irony of course being 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.359 an American the sixties, the thing was to have the 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.120 English completely. It turned around completely. And of course the 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.159 thing that we could never understand about the English albums 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.200 is they weren't shrink wrapped. Well that's right, yes exactly. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.040 Now they were quite different. And we would collect American 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.440 albums and and then I was a big folk fan 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:21.240 as well. You get turned onto the folk. I think 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.760 my friend, I don't know, it might have been my 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.800 friend Andrew Even, who's now pretty successful in himself. He's 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.040 Andy Oven and he lives in Ireland and has a 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.280 folk career still to this day, um doing very well. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.600 It might have been him. I fell in love with 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.280 Woody Guthrie for some reason. I think it was part 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:41.040 of our our our you know, we We were inspired 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.200 by America overall. We loved everything that was American. And 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.280 you can't get much more American than Charlie Parker on 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:47.800 the one and and what do you on the other. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:49.720 But in now we have the Internet and you can 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.000 find out what's going on around the world. How did 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:57.080 you gain this information? Uh? You know, we read Grapes 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.480 of Roth. We read we read Woody Yathri's book Man 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.200 for Glory. We we knew what the songs were about. 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.360 You know, when he'd sing a song about Sacho and Vanzetti, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:05.840 we'd go, who's that? When we go to the library 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.760 and look it up? And and so so we we 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.200 got interested in all that, all that stuff, and as 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.840 I say, everything American had a real allure to it. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.000 And of course we took a jazz hero is infinitely 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.920 more seriously then they were taken in America. I mean, 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.400 when the Lonis Monk would play London, he'd be playing 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.280 the Festival Hall to a rapt and silent audience. When 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.040 he played New York, he'd be playing in a jazz 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:30.840 club in which half the people appeared to be not 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.120 paying attention. So we realized how important these people were. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.840 In the same way that we subsequently did with American 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.640 rock and roll. Okay, if this isn't exactly the kind 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.240 of music, you may, but you're piquing my interest. Of course, 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.800 it was the Brits who were responsible for the blues revos. Yes, 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.319 why do you think that happened? Well, you said, Going 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:53.960 and I didn't make this kind of records. The interesting 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.160 thing is we kind of did. If you listen to 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.520 I mean to the best viability, you listen to a 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.400 lot of Peter and Going albums, There's there's Jimmy Read 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.200 songs on there, there's there's you know, I'm not saying 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.320 well badly we did them, but we were as gung 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.760 ho on American rhythm and blues as everybody else was. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.400 It became a collective obsession. We all knew who wrote 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.920 those songs. We knew about author Alexander and we knew 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:21.280 about you know, and then you know obviously Smokey Robinson 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.520 all the hits. But in addition, we we did know 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.840 about Jimmy Reid and and you know even earlier people 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.280 than that, Robert Johnson and to him. We we we 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.000 we we got into it. Now of course you have 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.560 the BBC. Would they play these records BBC U as 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.160 you probably know how to limit on how many records 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.920 they could play of any kind. There was a very 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:47.200 limited amount of what they called needle time allowed. So uh, 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.160 they didn't know. It's a good question exactly how we 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.439 came to hear it. It was a It was a person. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.480 The person I remember I belonged to some kind of 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.280 jazz and blues society and we'd meet once a week somewhere. 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.800 People would bring records they play. Yes, that's like the 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.959 early parts of the early era of the computer world. 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.319 You'd go and you have a meeting about computers. Yes, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.480 and people would say, look, I found this. And then 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.680 you could buy bootlegs too. There was a dad jazz 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.720 record shop called Doebells in the jan Cross Road where 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.800 they would sell which I didn't even think of his 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.880 bootlegs at the time, but of course they must have been. 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.319 They would sell individually got acetates from behind the counter 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.520 of jazz and folk albums that we couldn't get, all 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.920 the folk ways and ash albums and stuff that we're 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.320 not released in the UK. You could buy a doughbells 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.240 and of course I realized now that what they were 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.280 doing is just copying the single American copy they'd managed 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.520 to get. So you're now in school and you start 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.240 performing when you're a school I met Gordon at school, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.400 Gordon Waller. But before you meet Gordon, are you're performing 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.600 at all? No? I don't think so, well, not at school. 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.840 I did have a skiffle group before that, um as 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.240 everybody did. So it's like in America when the Beatles 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.560 said everybody picked up a guitar. Everybody in England out 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:58.800 of school. I read in one of the books that's 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.840 supposed to fifty and skillful group at the peak, and 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.280 you know, there were some group to add hits. I 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.760 think the first one was Freight Train Chas McDevitt was 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.920 the man's name, and they had the first hit with 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.439 a version of freight Train Old Song, which the writer 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.199 was was around. Then there was the Vipers, had a 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.800 couple of hits, and finally Lonnie Donigan, of course, who 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.520 became the star. And Lonnie Donegan, as you may know, 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.120 came out of the Dixie Land jazz trad jazz I 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.560 didn't know, Oh yes completely. He was the banjo player 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.760 in Chris Barber's jazz band. Chris Barber was one of 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.360 the most successful of these trad jazz bands who were 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:41.120 very popular and had hits. And he played chunka chunka 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.120 banjo with Chris Barber, which was the usual you know, trumpet, trombone, clarinet, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:50.240 Dixieland combination. And apparently, and I remember seeing this in 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.320 the middle of the show, they would give Lonnie Donning 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:53.720 on a spot where we would do a couple of 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.960 folk songs and that's where like his version of Rock Island, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.680 Lion and stuff came from. And eventually he formed his 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.240 own and and rock allant line of course began number 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.439 one all over the place. Now what was the startup 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.560 status of television at that point? I don't know how 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.720 much music there was on TV. There was six six 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.120 five special, I guess started around that time. That was 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:15.920 the first TV show that had rock and roll on it. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.599 And did everybody have a TV? We got our television, 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.520 our first television for the Coronation, which was fifty something. 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:30.720 I'm not sure, and I think people, wait, do you 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.400 remember watching the Coronation? Yes, yes, very much so. It's 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.640 always like getting a TV for the Super Bowl. You 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.800 knew this was coming, yes, And as you may have 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.520 read or seen, if you watched the Crown that it 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.480 was Churchill who convinced the Queen to do it, which 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.400 was interesting because he was a very conservative man. But 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.120 they said, look this this new thing, you know, the 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.319 television has becoming a thing and should be or should 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.440 we not? And there was a major school of thought 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.080 that you absolutely should not. They would destroy the mystique 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:02.360 and the magic and the the actually religious quotient of 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.360 this whole royal business. And the Queen herself it came 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.400 came to the decision, came down to her with whatever 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.160 ridiculous a young age she was, and she talked to 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.960 Churchill and he said, you should do it, you know, 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.800 you should let them in. So if you're someone of 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.520 your generation in England, does everyone remember where they were 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:27.160 when the when Queen Elizabeth was coordinated? Probably? I don't know. Um, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.320 I mean, at least you're not remembering a tragedy like 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.160 the Kennedy. Everybody at my age remembers exactly where they 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.480 were when. That is actually what I was thinking about, 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.599 well exactly I was. I remember being at school and 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.040 when we got the news of you know, that remas 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.680 the same impact to some degree globally, I think because 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:46.400 Kennedy was a global hero. But yes, I would say 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.520 most people. I think my guess would be the cardination 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.960 got ridiculous viewing figures because he had one channel. It's 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.320 not that you could watch something else. So you either 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.679 turned to don't or you didn't and why wouldn't you? 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.400 It was a national holiday. You a skiffle group, and 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.640 then you went to school and you met Gordon. Yes, 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.160 how did you meet Gordon? We were in the same 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.840 house at school and now I find the people know 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.160 what that means because of Harry Potter. You know, house 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.920 is a subdivision within your school, and that meant we 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.839 would inevitably meet. And we discovered that we both played 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.760 the guitar and sang. So what was Gordon's background that 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.200 he played the guitar and saying his father was also 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:29.160 a doctor actually and he lived out in Pinna where's from? Yes, exactly, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.240 And I'm not sure how he started playing the guitar. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.640 He was. He was a big rock fan. So you're 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.840 a what age when you meet Gordon? Now you meet him? 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.440 Is it's something that evolved or do you immediately see 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.600 each other and say, well, you play music, I play music. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.000 We're gonna do something It must have involved quite quickly 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.520 because discovering we both played, we knew about the same 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.040 number of chords, not a huge number, but enough to 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.680 get by. And we started comparing musical tastes. And I 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.160 was more of a folky. He didn't know much about 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:57.800 what he got. Three I showed him some songs. He 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.200 liked them. He was more of a rocket. I mean 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.240 I knew about Elvis, of course, but he would he 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.280 was deep into Elvis and Eddie Cochrane and and we 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.160 did coincide on the Evely Brothers. We both were Evely's fans, 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:14.120 so inevitably when that's who we started singing. And I 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.760 think we did talk about forming a band at one point. 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.120 We did have a group, I remember because we actually entered. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.000 Uh we were in a group and we entered ourselves 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.760 into the chamber music competition at school because we qualified 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:29.960 because it said they could be you know, four or 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.920 more instruments or something. And you know, somehow we we 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.160 realized that by playing a Shadows tune, the Shadows being 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.000 the big instrumental band in the UK, that we could 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:41.800 enter the chamber music competition. And we did. They let 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:43.800 us do it to and how how were you received. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.240 We got an honorary mentioned. The judges said it was 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.640 very hard to compare us to a you know, a 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.400 box string quartet or whatever, but but that we we 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:53.880 all seem to play well, and they gave us an 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.640 honorary mention. Was this a lark or are you seeing it? 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.560 We want to get gigs, we want to make money. 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.680 We weren't thinking about making gigs and money at that time. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.320 I don't think we just wanted to try it out. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.240 And I don't remember the process by which we kind 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.040 of abandoned the idea of a group and Golden and 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.760 I became a duo, but gradually it became just us. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.320 And what did that look like in terms of you playing? 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.000 We as I say, we did? Quite a few have 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.520 re LEAs songs we did. We worked out a couple 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.840 of what he got three songs and folk songs, um, 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.640 we worked out some Elvis songs. We used to do. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.720 How many version of Old show Cup which was pretty cool? 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.400 Slow died down? And there were there other musicians in 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:37.360 your school, oh, lots among the Mandel Looyd Weather really? Yes, 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.960 so you went to did you knew Andrew Lloyd? Yes? 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.680 And did you have any hint that he would become 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.560 the judge. He was no, but he did write the 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:51.720 first one. What was it the Touch? Really the first 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.000 trial run. I think it was just after left school, 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.600 but he was working on it at It's fascinating because 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.000 in America that was a complete stuff, had no women. Yeah, 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.480 and Jesus Christ Superstar. The single came out in the 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.960 spring of seventy and then the album. It had a 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:09.560 totally different uh skew or impact on the culture. It 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.040 was seen as a rock thing as opposed to now 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.600 he's seen as a Broadway Yes, that's right, but it 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.400 was really they made the album first too, with rock 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.280 singers exactly. The the It didn't hit probably till a 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.040 year after the album came out, but it was you know, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.760 it had different rock people on it and it was great. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.600 So you were you just one of the acts in 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.240 school or do? Were you one of the better acts? 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.560 I don't remember any other acts? Actually, I imagine there 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.840 must have been some, but we were not really well. So. 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.320 So they're having a assembly so to speak, you're playing. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.119 Do you have many opportunities to perform? Not much, not 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.200 in school functions, no, but but potties yes, and Eventually 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.000 you you find just getting asked to more potties than usual, um, 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.560 by people you don't particularly know. You know, that's come 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.159 to having a potty, Please come and bring your guitars. Know, 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.560 eventually dawns on you you're actually getting booked for free gigs, right, 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.639 your book for free gigs, which is fine of course, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:11.439 but are you enjoying the Yes, it was great and 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.199 it makes it easier to short two girls and all 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.960 that stuff. You know, how how long do you stay 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.360 in school? Um? All the way through? You know, telling 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.320 finish school? Which was I suppose seventeen sixteen? Okay, what 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.680 about going to university? I did? Gordon Gordon was the 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.120 year behind me in school. He's one year younger. So yes, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.000 by the time we started to be successful, I was 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.240 actually at university. I was a King's College, London, UM, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:43.800 studying philosophy. And you finished there. No, I did, not, No, significantly. 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.719 I You see, we've been gigging while we were at school. 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.159 We started getting some actual paid gigs. Did you have 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.800 an agent? How did you get those gigs? I think 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:58.800 one of them actually we played a place called Maria's 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.560 or something was well. I think we actually recommended by 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:06.520 our friends Jan and Jeremy. But incidentally because they you 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.320 brought them up. Yes, because many people because of the 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.879 similarity of these I'm in the same boat. But you 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.640 actually knew them, Yes, we did, and the similarities are bizarre. 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:20.760 I mean, think about it, two duos all the tall one, 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.520 tall handsome one sings the low part, the short nerdy 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.800 one wears glasses sings the high pot and in both 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.439 cases the one who's actually the lead singer puts his 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.120 name second. Right. It's really weird. Ja and Jeremy, Peter. 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.480 But you had a hit before they did, right, Yes, 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.040 And they never really had hits in the UK. Really, 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:44.720 they were only successful in America, very successful. Why is that? 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.880 I don't know. And I think their label was kind 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:49.840 of non existent in the UK. They were on a 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:56.440 weird label and and uh, yes, it's it's it's very curious. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.520 But they when we were stepping were confused all for 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:02.920 each other all the time. They we would do things 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:04.520 when we were on the d Salvent Show, which they 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.840 never got on. We they would get congratulated and great 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.399 and vice versa because they did um, the Dig Van 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:16.960 Dyke Show, the Battie Duke Show and Batman, which was 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.840 the biggest TV show in the world, and we would 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.320 get congratulated and get pissed. That's it all works out. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.720 We were saying, they helped get you gigs or they have. 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.240 There was one particular gig that they were moving on 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.400 to a different gig and and this lunchtime gig, we're 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.359 looking for a replacement, and they recommended us. I know. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.399 That's how we got one gig. We did have an 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.560 agent one brief period. I remember a guy called Lenn Black. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.960 Lenn Black, that's right, I've dropped about him. And how 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.240 much was a gig worth? We we did Papa lunchtime. 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.680 We got a pound each and a meal and then 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.239