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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest this week is producer, star manager executive producer rack

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Speaker 1: On Tour the legendary literally Peter Asher. Okay, you grow

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Speaker 1: up in a house of overachievers. Your father and mother

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Speaker 1: are not, you know, the pedestrian people. No, they were

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Speaker 1: both very determined, successful people. It's true. My father was

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Speaker 1: a physician and did very well and wrote a lot

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Speaker 1: of books and stuff, and it's quite well known in

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Speaker 1: the medical field still to this day. And my mother

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Speaker 1: was a musician, played the obo and was Obo professor

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Speaker 1: at the Royal Academy Music in London. So, and your

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Speaker 1: father literally diagnosed certain conditions, well he if you're looking

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Speaker 1: up now, the primary and what was his name, His

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Speaker 1: name was Richard Ashe and he identified and named Munchausen syndrome.

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Speaker 1: And an example of his eccentricity is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: usually and doctors identified disease, they name it after themselves. True,

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Speaker 1: with Munchausen syndrome you get people going. But who was

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Speaker 1: Dr muncha and explained for my audience what that is. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the illness you probably have heard of

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Speaker 1: where people make up diseases that they've have had. It's

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Speaker 1: not just like lingering or it's when you you actually

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Speaker 1: enjoy the process of being examined by doctors and being

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Speaker 1: the center of attention in that way. Um, so they

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Speaker 1: he discovered that there were people who are actually going

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Speaker 1: around the country to different hospitals complaining of these conditions

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Speaker 1: purely in order to enjoy, believe it or not, the

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Speaker 1: the attention that that being a sufferer gave you. And

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Speaker 1: because by the time they go to the third or

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Speaker 1: fourth hospital, they already had scars from exploratory surgery and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So it all sounded very credible. And then stopping somebody

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Speaker 1: else identified Munchausen by proxy, which is much nasty where

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Speaker 1: people use their children to that saying that's when we

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Speaker 1: read about the paper all the time. But he identified

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Speaker 1: it and named it after Baron Munchausen, of course, who

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Speaker 1: was a legendary of fictitious teller of of of told

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Speaker 1: stories and as in the Adventures of Baron munchaus in

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Speaker 1: the book and the film by Terry Gilliam, So he

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Speaker 1: named it after the baron. Rather is that his personality

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Speaker 1: was he a little offbeat? Yes, and he was. He

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Speaker 1: was brilliant and a brilliant writer. He wrote extremely well.

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Speaker 1: Now I grew up in a family where we all

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Speaker 1: had dinner together every evening. Now did you have that

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Speaker 1: in your house as often as possible? I think yes?

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Speaker 1: So were you interacting with sudden you all at breakfast

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Speaker 1: every day and quite off way at dinner? And and

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Speaker 1: did your father interact with you? Yes? And to what

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Speaker 1: degree you to get you believe your personality from him? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I think. I think my love of logic and science

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Speaker 1: and literature and good writing all came from him. Um.

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Speaker 1: Those so those uh characteristics which I value them, which

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Speaker 1: I think did come from my father, And and both

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Speaker 1: my sisters have those same characteristics as well. And your

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Speaker 1: mother was a music teacher. So did she have you

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Speaker 1: learning music in the house? She did? Um? Well, I

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Speaker 1: was very uncoperative. I'm the one. I'm the child who

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Speaker 1: kept up least with my piano lessons and and formal

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Speaker 1: music training. I was very lazy about it and and

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Speaker 1: sort of didn't uncooperative about it. Both my sisters read

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Speaker 1: music much much better than I do. But was there

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Speaker 1: always music in the house? Yes? Always? Um. My mother

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Speaker 1: started as a working musician, of course, when I was young.

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Speaker 1: Apparently I spent the first year or so of my

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Speaker 1: life on the road. Really because okay, so your parents

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Speaker 1: were married. Your father's a doctor and your mother's going

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Speaker 1: on the road. Yes, because at that point suddenly the

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Speaker 1: orchestras were I'd run out of people because all the

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Speaker 1: men were conscripted or volunteered. And what your father was more,

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Speaker 1: he was in a doctor in London, um, dealing with

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Speaker 1: victims of the bombing and all that stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: that made him a lifelong pacifist. Being dealing with all

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Speaker 1: the blown up people in the Blitz was more than

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Speaker 1: enough to convince him it was not a good idea.

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Speaker 1: And uh, my mom, that was when the big orchestras

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Speaker 1: had women in them only as a lost resort. Women

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Speaker 1: only they were My mother was telling me once how

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Speaker 1: they were instructed. When the whole orchestras in the symphony orchestra,

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Speaker 1: the Halle orchestra, whatever it was, walked on stage for

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Speaker 1: a concert, the women was instructed to walk behind the

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Speaker 1: man as unobtrusively as possible. Wow. So your mother when

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Speaker 1: she went on the road with you, and apparently we

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Speaker 1: the orchestras run the road entertaining troops, and when I

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Speaker 1: was a baby, I'm told that she I was left.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the women would have babies and they

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Speaker 1: would leave them under the care of some some burly

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Speaker 1: sergeant major in the room somewhere while the concert took place,

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Speaker 1: and your mother went on the road for the compensation

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Speaker 1: or because she was filling a niche I think because

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Speaker 1: it was a gig, you know it was. She was

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Speaker 1: a musician, and somebody offered you a place in a

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Speaker 1: major orchestra, you took it. I guess. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: asking that, asking that particular question. But there were three

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Speaker 1: kids in the family. Uh yeah, Well when I was

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Speaker 1: a little baby, there was only me. I was the oldest.

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Speaker 1: So if she's telling about when I was a little baby,

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Speaker 1: which I think she was, maybe she hadn't even had

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Speaker 1: Jane yet, let alone Clad. Okay, so your sister is

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Speaker 1: famous actress, genius and clear? What was Clear's life about?

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Speaker 1: Claire became a school teacher, then at mistress, and then

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Speaker 1: a school inspector um and now she occasionally still works

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Speaker 1: for Offsted, which is the school inspection agency in the UK,

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Speaker 1: and she kind of inspects the inspectors or something as

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Speaker 1: a on a consultant basis. She's the cleverest of all

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Speaker 1: of us in and you still have contact with her. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: very much. So okay, so you're in the house, and

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Speaker 1: at what point do you become infected with popular music?

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Speaker 1: Quite late? I was a classical music fan. Then I

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Speaker 1: was a jazz fan, which I do when I'm terrible

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Speaker 1: at dates, I should warn you. But I suppose when

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Speaker 1: I was ten, eleven, twelve, I don't know, it's okay,

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Speaker 1: But when you were into jazz, because you know America,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have a different frame of reference. Was

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Speaker 1: jazz the sound that people were listening to? No, uh,

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Speaker 1: not so much. Although track jazz as we called you know,

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Speaker 1: Dixie Land did enjoy a great vogue in the UK.

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Speaker 1: But modern jazz bebop that I was enthrolled with was

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Speaker 1: at a smaller audience. It was not popular music, but

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Speaker 1: it was cool music. It was you know, how did

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Speaker 1: you get turned onto it? I don't know. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: had a friend who was a huge fan, maybe he

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Speaker 1: was a fan before I was, who had a better

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Speaker 1: record collection than I did. But you started, you know,

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Speaker 1: once you're into it, you start collecting all those all

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Speaker 1: your Charlie Parker and thelonis someone can Max Roach and

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Speaker 1: all those records. It becomes the thing, you know. And

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Speaker 1: those were all forty five. No, they were albums very

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Speaker 1: often ten inch albums, tenny inch album really they played

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Speaker 1: at thirty three. Yes, at that point there were ten

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Speaker 1: inch and twelve inch and because getting American albums was

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Speaker 1: the coolest, you know, albums on Blue Notes and Prestige

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Speaker 1: and all those great labels. The irony of course being

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Speaker 1: an American the sixties, the thing was to have the

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Speaker 1: English completely. It turned around completely. And of course the

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Speaker 1: thing that we could never understand about the English albums

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Speaker 1: is they weren't shrink wrapped. Well that's right, yes exactly.

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Speaker 1: Now they were quite different. And we would collect American

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Speaker 1: albums and and then I was a big folk fan

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Speaker 1: as well. You get turned onto the folk. I think

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Speaker 1: my friend, I don't know, it might have been my

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Speaker 1: friend Andrew Even, who's now pretty successful in himself. He's

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Speaker 1: Andy Oven and he lives in Ireland and has a

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Speaker 1: folk career still to this day, um doing very well.

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Speaker 1: It might have been him. I fell in love with

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Speaker 1: Woody Guthrie for some reason. I think it was part

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Speaker 1: of our our our you know, we We were inspired

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Speaker 1: by America overall. We loved everything that was American. And

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Speaker 1: you can't get much more American than Charlie Parker on

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Speaker 1: the one and and what do you on the other.

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Speaker 1: But in now we have the Internet and you can

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Speaker 1: find out what's going on around the world. How did

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Speaker 1: you gain this information? Uh? You know, we read Grapes

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Speaker 1: of Roth. We read we read Woody Yathri's book Man

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Speaker 1: for Glory. We we knew what the songs were about.

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Speaker 1: You know, when he'd sing a song about Sacho and Vanzetti,

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Speaker 1: we'd go, who's that? When we go to the library

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Speaker 1: and look it up? And and so so we we

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Speaker 1: got interested in all that, all that stuff, and as

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Speaker 1: I say, everything American had a real allure to it.

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Speaker 1: And of course we took a jazz hero is infinitely

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Speaker 1: more seriously then they were taken in America. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when the Lonis Monk would play London, he'd be playing

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Speaker 1: the Festival Hall to a rapt and silent audience. When

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Speaker 1: he played New York, he'd be playing in a jazz

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Speaker 1: club in which half the people appeared to be not

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Speaker 1: paying attention. So we realized how important these people were.

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Speaker 1: In the same way that we subsequently did with American

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Speaker 1: rock and roll. Okay, if this isn't exactly the kind

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Speaker 1: of music, you may, but you're piquing my interest. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it was the Brits who were responsible for the blues revos. Yes,

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Speaker 1: why do you think that happened? Well, you said, Going

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Speaker 1: and I didn't make this kind of records. The interesting

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Speaker 1: thing is we kind of did. If you listen to

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Speaker 1: I mean to the best viability, you listen to a

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Speaker 1: lot of Peter and Going albums, There's there's Jimmy Read

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Speaker 1: songs on there, there's there's you know, I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: well badly we did them, but we were as gung

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Speaker 1: ho on American rhythm and blues as everybody else was.

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Speaker 1: It became a collective obsession. We all knew who wrote

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Speaker 1: those songs. We knew about author Alexander and we knew

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Speaker 1: about you know, and then you know obviously Smokey Robinson

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Speaker 1: all the hits. But in addition, we we did know

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Speaker 1: about Jimmy Reid and and you know even earlier people

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Speaker 1: than that, Robert Johnson and to him. We we we

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Speaker 1: we we got into it. Now of course you have

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Speaker 1: the BBC. Would they play these records BBC U as

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Speaker 1: you probably know how to limit on how many records

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Speaker 1: they could play of any kind. There was a very

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Speaker 1: limited amount of what they called needle time allowed. So uh,

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Speaker 1: they didn't know. It's a good question exactly how we

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Speaker 1: came to hear it. It was a It was a person.

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Speaker 1: The person I remember I belonged to some kind of

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Speaker 1: jazz and blues society and we'd meet once a week somewhere.

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Speaker 1: People would bring records they play. Yes, that's like the

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Speaker 1: early parts of the early era of the computer world.

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Speaker 1: You'd go and you have a meeting about computers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and people would say, look, I found this. And then

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Speaker 1: you could buy bootlegs too. There was a dad jazz

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Speaker 1: record shop called Doebells in the jan Cross Road where

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Speaker 1: they would sell which I didn't even think of his

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Speaker 1: bootlegs at the time, but of course they must have been.

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Speaker 1: They would sell individually got acetates from behind the counter

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Speaker 1: of jazz and folk albums that we couldn't get, all

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Speaker 1: the folk ways and ash albums and stuff that we're

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Speaker 1: not released in the UK. You could buy a doughbells

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Speaker 1: and of course I realized now that what they were

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Speaker 1: doing is just copying the single American copy they'd managed

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Speaker 1: to get. So you're now in school and you start

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Speaker 1: performing when you're a school I met Gordon at school,

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Speaker 1: Gordon Waller. But before you meet Gordon, are you're performing

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Speaker 1: at all? No? I don't think so, well, not at school.

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Speaker 1: I did have a skiffle group before that, um as

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Speaker 1: everybody did. So it's like in America when the Beatles

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Speaker 1: said everybody picked up a guitar. Everybody in England out

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Speaker 1: of school. I read in one of the books that's

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Speaker 1: supposed to fifty and skillful group at the peak, and

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Speaker 1: you know, there were some group to add hits. I

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Speaker 1: think the first one was Freight Train Chas McDevitt was

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Speaker 1: the man's name, and they had the first hit with

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Speaker 1: a version of freight Train Old Song, which the writer

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Speaker 1: was was around. Then there was the Vipers, had a

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Speaker 1: couple of hits, and finally Lonnie Donigan, of course, who

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Speaker 1: became the star. And Lonnie Donegan, as you may know,

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Speaker 1: came out of the Dixie Land jazz trad jazz I

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Speaker 1: didn't know, Oh yes completely. He was the banjo player

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Speaker 1: in Chris Barber's jazz band. Chris Barber was one of

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Speaker 1: the most successful of these trad jazz bands who were

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Speaker 1: very popular and had hits. And he played chunka chunka

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Speaker 1: banjo with Chris Barber, which was the usual you know, trumpet, trombone, clarinet,

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Speaker 1: Dixieland combination. And apparently, and I remember seeing this in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the show, they would give Lonnie Donning

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Speaker 1: on a spot where we would do a couple of

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Speaker 1: folk songs and that's where like his version of Rock Island,

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Speaker 1: Lion and stuff came from. And eventually he formed his

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Speaker 1: own and and rock allant line of course began number

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Speaker 1: one all over the place. Now what was the startup

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Speaker 1: status of television at that point? I don't know how

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Speaker 1: much music there was on TV. There was six six

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Speaker 1: five special, I guess started around that time. That was

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Speaker 1: the first TV show that had rock and roll on it.

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Speaker 1: And did everybody have a TV? We got our television,

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Speaker 1: our first television for the Coronation, which was fifty something.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, and I think people, wait, do you

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Speaker 1: remember watching the Coronation? Yes, yes, very much so. It's

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Speaker 1: always like getting a TV for the Super Bowl. You

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Speaker 1: knew this was coming, yes, And as you may have

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Speaker 1: read or seen, if you watched the Crown that it

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Speaker 1: was Churchill who convinced the Queen to do it, which

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Speaker 1: was interesting because he was a very conservative man. But

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Speaker 1: they said, look this this new thing, you know, the

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Speaker 1: television has becoming a thing and should be or should

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Speaker 1: we not? And there was a major school of thought

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Speaker 1: that you absolutely should not. They would destroy the mystique

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Speaker 1: and the magic and the the actually religious quotient of

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Speaker 1: this whole royal business. And the Queen herself it came

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Speaker 1: came to the decision, came down to her with whatever

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Speaker 1: ridiculous a young age she was, and she talked to

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Speaker 1: Churchill and he said, you should do it, you know,

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Speaker 1: you should let them in. So if you're someone of

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Speaker 1: your generation in England, does everyone remember where they were

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Speaker 1: when the when Queen Elizabeth was coordinated? Probably? I don't know. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, at least you're not remembering a tragedy like

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy. Everybody at my age remembers exactly where they

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Speaker 1: were when. That is actually what I was thinking about,

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Speaker 1: well exactly I was. I remember being at school and

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Speaker 1: when we got the news of you know, that remas

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Speaker 1: the same impact to some degree globally, I think because

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Speaker 1: Kennedy was a global hero. But yes, I would say

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Speaker 1: most people. I think my guess would be the cardination

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Speaker 1: got ridiculous viewing figures because he had one channel. It's

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Speaker 1: not that you could watch something else. So you either

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Speaker 1: turned to don't or you didn't and why wouldn't you?

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Speaker 1: It was a national holiday. You a skiffle group, and

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Speaker 1: then you went to school and you met Gordon. Yes,

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Speaker 1: how did you meet Gordon? We were in the same

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Speaker 1: house at school and now I find the people know

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Speaker 1: what that means because of Harry Potter. You know, house

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Speaker 1: is a subdivision within your school, and that meant we

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Speaker 1: would inevitably meet. And we discovered that we both played

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Speaker 1: the guitar and sang. So what was Gordon's background that

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Speaker 1: he played the guitar and saying his father was also

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Speaker 1: a doctor actually and he lived out in Pinna where's from? Yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure how he started playing the guitar.

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Speaker 1: He was. He was a big rock fan. So you're

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Speaker 1: a what age when you meet Gordon? Now you meet him?

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Speaker 1: Is it's something that evolved or do you immediately see

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Speaker 1: each other and say, well, you play music, I play music.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna do something It must have involved quite quickly

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Speaker 1: because discovering we both played, we knew about the same

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Speaker 1: number of chords, not a huge number, but enough to

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Speaker 1: get by. And we started comparing musical tastes. And I

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Speaker 1: was more of a folky. He didn't know much about

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Speaker 1: what he got. Three I showed him some songs. He

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Speaker 1: liked them. He was more of a rocket. I mean

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Speaker 1: I knew about Elvis, of course, but he would he

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Speaker 1: was deep into Elvis and Eddie Cochrane and and we

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Speaker 1: did coincide on the Evely Brothers. We both were Evely's fans,

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Speaker 1: so inevitably when that's who we started singing. And I

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Speaker 1: think we did talk about forming a band at one point.

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Speaker 1: We did have a group, I remember because we actually entered.

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Speaker 1: Uh we were in a group and we entered ourselves

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Speaker 1: into the chamber music competition at school because we qualified

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Speaker 1: because it said they could be you know, four or

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Speaker 1: more instruments or something. And you know, somehow we we

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Speaker 1: realized that by playing a Shadows tune, the Shadows being

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Speaker 1: the big instrumental band in the UK, that we could

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Speaker 1: enter the chamber music competition. And we did. They let

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Speaker 1: us do it to and how how were you received.

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Speaker 1: We got an honorary mentioned. The judges said it was

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Speaker 1: very hard to compare us to a you know, a

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Speaker 1: box string quartet or whatever, but but that we we

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Speaker 1: all seem to play well, and they gave us an

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Speaker 1: honorary mention. Was this a lark or are you seeing it?

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Speaker 1: We want to get gigs, we want to make money.

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Speaker 1: We weren't thinking about making gigs and money at that time.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we just wanted to try it out.

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Speaker 1: And I don't remember the process by which we kind

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Speaker 1: of abandoned the idea of a group and Golden and

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Speaker 1: I became a duo, but gradually it became just us.

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Speaker 1: And what did that look like in terms of you playing?

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Speaker 1: We as I say, we did? Quite a few have

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Speaker 1: re LEAs songs we did. We worked out a couple

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Speaker 1: of what he got three songs and folk songs, um,

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Speaker 1: we worked out some Elvis songs. We used to do.

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Speaker 1: How many version of Old show Cup which was pretty cool?

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Speaker 1: Slow died down? And there were there other musicians in

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Speaker 1: your school, oh, lots among the Mandel Looyd Weather really? Yes,

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Speaker 1: so you went to did you knew Andrew Lloyd? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And did you have any hint that he would become

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Speaker 1: the judge. He was no, but he did write the

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Speaker 1: first one. What was it the Touch? Really the first

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Speaker 1: trial run. I think it was just after left school,

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Speaker 1: but he was working on it at It's fascinating because

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Speaker 1: in America that was a complete stuff, had no women. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Jesus Christ Superstar. The single came out in the

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Speaker 1: spring of seventy and then the album. It had a

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Speaker 1: totally different uh skew or impact on the culture. It

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Speaker 1: was seen as a rock thing as opposed to now

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Speaker 1: he's seen as a Broadway Yes, that's right, but it

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Speaker 1: was really they made the album first too, with rock

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Speaker 1: singers exactly. The the It didn't hit probably till a

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Speaker 1: year after the album came out, but it was you know,

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Speaker 1: it had different rock people on it and it was great.

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Speaker 1: So you were you just one of the acts in

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Speaker 1: school or do? Were you one of the better acts?

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Speaker 1: I don't remember any other acts? Actually, I imagine there

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Speaker 1: must have been some, but we were not really well. So.

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Speaker 1: So they're having a assembly so to speak, you're playing.

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Speaker 1: Do you have many opportunities to perform? Not much, not

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Speaker 1: in school functions, no, but but potties yes, and Eventually

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Speaker 1: you you find just getting asked to more potties than usual, um,

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Speaker 1: by people you don't particularly know. You know, that's come

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Speaker 1: to having a potty, Please come and bring your guitars. Know,

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Speaker 1: eventually dawns on you you're actually getting booked for free gigs, right,

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Speaker 1: your book for free gigs, which is fine of course,

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Speaker 1: but are you enjoying the Yes, it was great and

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Speaker 1: it makes it easier to short two girls and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. You know, how how long do you stay

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Speaker 1: in school? Um? All the way through? You know, telling

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Speaker 1: finish school? Which was I suppose seventeen sixteen? Okay, what

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Speaker 1: about going to university? I did? Gordon Gordon was the

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Speaker 1: year behind me in school. He's one year younger. So yes,

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Speaker 1: by the time we started to be successful, I was

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Speaker 1: actually at university. I was a King's College, London, UM,

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Speaker 1: studying philosophy. And you finished there. No, I did, not, No, significantly.

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Speaker 1: I You see, we've been gigging while we were at school.

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Speaker 1: We started getting some actual paid gigs. Did you have

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Speaker 1: an agent? How did you get those gigs? I think

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Speaker 1: one of them actually we played a place called Maria's

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Speaker 1: or something was well. I think we actually recommended by

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Speaker 1: our friends Jan and Jeremy. But incidentally because they you

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Speaker 1: brought them up. Yes, because many people because of the

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Speaker 1: similarity of these I'm in the same boat. But you

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Speaker 1: actually knew them, Yes, we did, and the similarities are bizarre.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, two duos all the tall one,

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Speaker 1: tall handsome one sings the low part, the short nerdy

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Speaker 1: one wears glasses sings the high pot and in both

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Speaker 1: cases the one who's actually the lead singer puts his

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Speaker 1: name second. Right. It's really weird. Ja and Jeremy, Peter.

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Speaker 1: But you had a hit before they did, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: And they never really had hits in the UK. Really,

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Speaker 1: they were only successful in America, very successful. Why is that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. And I think their label was kind

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Speaker 1: of non existent in the UK. They were on a

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Speaker 1: weird label and and uh, yes, it's it's it's very curious.

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Speaker 1: But they when we were stepping were confused all for

385
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Speaker 1: each other all the time. They we would do things

386
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Speaker 1: when we were on the d Salvent Show, which they

387
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Speaker 1: never got on. We they would get congratulated and great

388
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Speaker 1: and vice versa because they did um, the Dig Van

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Speaker 1: Dyke Show, the Battie Duke Show and Batman, which was

390
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Speaker 1: the biggest TV show in the world, and we would

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Speaker 1: get congratulated and get pissed. That's it all works out.

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Speaker 1: We were saying, they helped get you gigs or they have.

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Speaker 1: There was one particular gig that they were moving on

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Speaker 1: to a different gig and and this lunchtime gig, we're

395
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Speaker 1: looking for a replacement, and they recommended us. I know.

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Speaker 1: That's how we got one gig. We did have an

397
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Speaker 1: agent one brief period. I remember a guy called Lenn Black.

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Speaker 1: Lenn Black, that's right, I've dropped about him. And how

399
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Speaker 1: much was a gig worth? We we did Papa lunchtime.

400
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Speaker 1: We got a pound each and a meal and then

401
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Speaker 1: eventually we got this better paying, more serious gig at

402
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Speaker 1: a place called the pick Quick Club. And that's where

403
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Speaker 1: you know, we got discovered and things changed. Okay, so

404
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Speaker 1: you were going to King's College. Gordon was the year

405
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Speaker 1: behind you. Did he go to college by that time?

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Speaker 1: By the time we were the Pickwick, he had left school. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I was not going to university. And then so how

408
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Speaker 1: did you get discovered? We were playing at the Pickwick Club. Well,

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Speaker 1: for those who don't know, what was the Pickwick where

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Speaker 1: was it and what was in the middle of London

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Speaker 1: off the Ja cross Road. It was the sort of

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Speaker 1: up market late night eating and drinking club, a lot

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Speaker 1: of stars of the day. The first time I ever

414
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Speaker 1: met Michael Caine was in the Pickwick Club, Morrice mikel

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Speaker 1: White right exactly. This was when he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: very young and handsome. Um. David Hemmings of course you're

417
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Speaker 1: a blow up, you know. Um. So it was the

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Speaker 1: place to be. Terence Stamp and his incredibly beautiful girlfriend

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Speaker 1: Jean Shrimpton, um and so on, and Harry seek him

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Speaker 1: one of the one I don't know the gun show,

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Speaker 1: Harry sekim be to sell. Spike Milligan of course met

422
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Speaker 1: him there. He was charming in a good tipper and

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Speaker 1: and we would sit in a couple of barssels at

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Speaker 1: the bar and do two or three sets a night,

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Speaker 1: singing heavily songs, current songs and would the people pay attention? Yes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes something something that they wouldn't How long did you

427
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,959
Speaker 1: play and were you trying to get discovered where you're

428
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,239
Speaker 1: putting out fields? Now we're just doing a gig. We

429
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: were just doing it and it was quite well paid

430
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: and we got free food in a really delicious, great

431
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: restaurant and tips. People would request songs and we do

432
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: our very best to learn them and do them. Or

433
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: we say, you know, we'll come back, come back, and

434
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: they so we will learn it. And we're still going

435
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: to school at this point. Uh. There was a period

436
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: during our early gigging where I had left school and

437
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: Gordon was still at school and he would have to

438
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: climb over a fence to get out because when he

439
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: was a weekly boarder, and I would illegally would get

440
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: out over a fence. I would meet him and drive

441
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: to the gig. But I was not. I was at university.

442
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: But then later on Gordon left school. But I forget

443
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: exactly the order things happening. But one night at the

444
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: Biggery Club, John the question. We would do about three

445
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: sets to night. I think how many days a week?

446
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: Every night? So so at that point if you work,

447
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: it was seven days. If you're working, if you're working

448
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: that much, you're not going to school an even No, Well,

449
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: Gordon was okay, but you how do you decide to

450
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: leave school? No? I left to go when I was

451
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: finished with school. I was you were at the university,

452
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: we're doing these things. How could you study if you're

453
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: working you know every night? Um I did I got

454
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: away with it? Did I do well enough? I passed

455
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: my exams? Okay, so you're you're working at the Pickwick Club.

456
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 1: One night a man in a very shiny suit asked

457
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: us to sit down have a drink with him. We

458
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: said yes, we always yes to that question, and and

459
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: he introduced himself as Norman Newell and an a guy

460
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: from E M I Records, and said that you would

461
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: like us to come and do an audition for E

462
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: M I at em I Studios. We were very excited.

463
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: Uh was this was me days away? He boked some time.

464
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: We went and cut a bunch of songs just with

465
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: us on our guitars, just like we've been doing in

466
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: the Pickwy Club, and several songs. He particularly liked our

467
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: version of five miles, the old Folks song. I think

468
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: at the time he was kind of imagining maybe we

469
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: would be England's answer to the folk boom, you know,

470
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: kind of the Kingston Duo as it were, or Peter

471
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: and Paul without marriage. This is before the explosion of

472
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: the Beatles, yes, and well might have been just beginning.

473
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: I guess maybe beatles first single maybe I don't know, um,

474
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: but yes, it must have been because at that point

475
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: Paul was already living in our house, so they were

476
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: already down in London. And so yes, no, the Beatles

477
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: had happened, because in America the Beatles and no Beatles yet. No,

478
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: but when the Beatles happened sixty four, which was two

479
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: years later, just killed the folks sine overnight, right, No,

480
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: the folks, yes, exactly, but the folksine had leaked over

481
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: to England and maybe he thought, you know, that was

482
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: where we were got to fit in. But the Beatles

483
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: must have been happening at that time because that was

484
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: when Paul was he had moved into use and and

485
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: uh so that's when you know, we went did the

486
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: audition and they give us a record contractor they sent

487
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: us a record deal. Said well, you know, okay, we

488
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: use you know, saying this is it, this is my career,

489
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it. Yes, yes, we all thought that

490
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: because of course at that time, the without a record deal,

491
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: there was no hope at all. There were no alternatives.

492
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: The only way anyone was gonna ever hear your music

493
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: other than a gig was making a record. And did

494
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: you have a lawyer. Look at the deal we had

495
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: the e M. I got us a manager, which should

496
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: have been an indication. But we're managed by Michael Richard

497
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: Armitage who managed David Frost and managed pianist called Russ

498
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: Conway who had a lot of hits in the UK,

499
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: and a few other people, and um I had quite

500
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: a big music organization. It was Noel Gay Publishing, Noel

501
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: Gay being a very successful songwriter from a previous era.

502
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: UM So there we were and and we they gave

503
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: us our record deal and and that's when we okay,

504
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: So then what about what to record? Exactly? Well, Norman

505
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 1: had picked a couple of songs off a demo including

506
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: if you remember I don't We probably did about ten

507
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: songs a lot, yeah, that we've been you know, about

508
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: ten that we've been doing in the sets at the club.

509
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: And he picked a couple of specific ones I think

510
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: an Evily song and five Miles and that he wanted

511
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: us to record. But that's when he did say, look,

512
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: if you know any other songs that might you know

513
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: fit in you know, you think would be good to record.

514
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: Uh biole means bring it to my attention. And that's

515
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: when this whole other story. Okay, let's let's stop for

516
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: a second. How does Paul McCartney end up living in

517
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: your house? Well, that's the other story. Uh. My sister

518
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: Jane at that time, I've already become a very successful actress.

519
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: We both started acting when we were chilled. How does

520
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: that happen? Um? An agent spotted the three of us, myself,

521
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: Jane and Claire and kind of went, oh, you know,

522
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: you could you know, they could do well a little

523
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: bit slower. You're like, you know, I know this doesn't exist,

524
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: but you're like at the mall, you're walking. We were

525
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: at the park, as I recall, in a playground, and

526
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: some agent was talking to my mother. I think that's

527
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: the story as I as I've been telling, and your

528
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: mother is not suspicious, No, she was kind of inter curious. Um.

529
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: They said, well, you know, I think it was something

530
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: like this that you know, because we all had red hair,

531
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: and we were equally graded in height, and nevidently looked

532
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: sufficiently you know, cute, and and so we all said, oh,

533
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: that sounds great, let's do it, you know, And so

534
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: we signed up to this acting agent, a woman called

535
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: Valerie Glynn Wilson, gave acting classes, which we went to

536
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: a bit, and both Jane and I started getting work

537
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of straight away. What kind of work did you get? Well,

538
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: my first film was this film called The Plant His Wife,

539
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: where I can probably say Plaudette Colbert played my mother

540
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: and and Jack Hawkins played my father, and we were

541
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: fighting the Commies in the in the Empire. We were

542
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: out in Malaysia saving the British. How big a role

543
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: did you have? Big? I was the son. Okay, you're

544
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: going to school, Yes, you're in a movie. Yes, the

545
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: people now, I mean that was when I was eight.

546
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: We do you go play? That's the kid from the movie. Occasionally?

547
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: How good did that make you feel? Excellent? Okay, so

548
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: you do that movie and then then does it dry upper?

549
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: There's continuing work. I've worked for about the next five

550
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: years or so. A lot um uh, because at that

551
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: time you could juggle. It was school, and it was

552
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: fine because you know, they'd have to have teachers on

553
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: the set and all that stuff. But when I went

554
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: to when I switched from prep school too, what you

555
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: would call high school became harder because I was at

556
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: this place for Westminster School, which which is why about

557
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: Gordon who are much stricter about letting you have to

558
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: time off. So so did that ultimately kill your acting career?

559
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: I think so that's my excuse anyway, Okay, what Jane

560
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: left school, uh fifteen? She was she loved acting. She

561
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: she stuck with it. We did do one thing together once.

562
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: What happened to Claire was she acting too or she dropped?

563
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: He did do some acting, but not very much. So

564
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: she did do something. So Jane sticks with it, and

565
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: you do what together. Jane left to stick with it.

566
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: The one we did together was an episode of robin Hood,

567
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: the old black and white Robin Hood series. I was

568
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: in four or five of them as Prince Arthur. But

569
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: then after I've done that for a while, that stopped.

570
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: Prince author dropped out for some reason, but they asked

571
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: to be back with Jane a year or so later.

572
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: By that time, I had been demoted to a peasant child.

573
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: So Jane and I play a mother and sister peasant

574
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: children whose father has been captured by the sheriff and

575
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: who go to Robin for help. And it's it's also

576
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: quite substant anto roles and I can't remember her names though,

577
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: and and that's the only thing we ever did together,

578
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: but that was fun. Anyway, Jane took to acting very vigorously,

579
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: and because it's still very successful to this day. That's

580
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: what she's doing all the time as we speak, and

581
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: doing it very well and doing very well at it.

582
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: And so she when I left school and went to

583
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: series school, she left school and quit and took acting

584
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: seriously and has been working ever since. And she meets

585
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney. How she was the celebrity. She was also

586
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: well respected for her musical opinions. She'd been on the

587
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: show called Jukebox Jury, which was a TV weekly TV

588
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: show where they had celebrities give their opinion on the

589
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: latest round of record releases, and she did that very

590
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: well because she loved music. She's articulate and she's good

591
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: at it. So it was in that context at the

592
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: Radio Times, which is like our TV guide kind of thing. Um,

593
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: he said we didn't really need a TV because, as

594
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: they said, we only had one TV, but we had

595
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: multiple radio channels. And so they are starting to go

596
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: and see this band who just come down from London

597
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: that all the girls were screaming over, and so she

598
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: did and she thought they were amazing and loved them

599
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: and and thought the music was terrific, and they were.

600
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: She was taken backstage as the visiting celeb to meet them.

601
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: She liked them very much, they liked her, and one

602
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: of them liked her in particular, anounced her out and

603
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: this one okay, but he's from Liverpool. Yeah, so they

604
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: become boyfriend girlfriend. How does he end up literally living

605
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: in your house? He was just hanging around there all

606
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: the time, I think, and our parents sort of took

607
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: pity on him and offered him the guest room in

608
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: the house because the Beatles had a flat in Green

609
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: Street and Mayfair, as I recall, But it was chaos.

610
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: It was for for guys living together, you know, who

611
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: weren't that much and we're on the road a lot

612
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: in rock and roll style. And I think when they

613
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: made this offer, I think he liked the idea of

614
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: having slightly more organized family existence. Ultimately, how he moved in, Ultimately,

615
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: how long did he live there? Two? He is, I think.

616
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: And when he first moves in, have they already had

617
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: a hit? Yes? They must have, yes, because he was

618
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: already being recognized. Okay, So what was that like having

619
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney living your house for you, it was well,

620
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: I mean it was very interesting. I mean, I was

621
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: happy to meet him. I liked him a lot. Obviously

622
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: we we lived next door to each other on the

623
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: top floor. She had a bathroom, so I got to

624
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: know him and liked him. I mean, I think for

625
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: everybody was a bit strange because of the celebrity factor.

626
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: But that was, as you probably know, in that Wimple

627
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: Street Holly Street area in London is where doctors have

628
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: their consulting rooms as well. So there were moments when

629
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: patients would come to visit see my father and be

630
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: very puzzled by a crowd of girls milling around on

631
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: the doorstep because eventually, because people did find out where

632
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: he was living. So so so, your father's office was

633
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: in the basess, No, in the in his office was

634
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: on the what we called the first floor. He was like, okay,

635
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: now you had a piano in the basement where he

636
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: would write and rehearse. That's a music room my mother had.

637
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: We had a piano in the sitting room on the

638
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: second floor, which he couldn't use, but there was the

639
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: other piano was a little upright in the basement where

640
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: my mother had a small music room, because the occasionally

641
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: would give private lessons because she taught mostly the Royal

642
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: Academy and occasionally was a visiting professor at the Guildhall

643
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: School of Music as well, where in one of the

644
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: curiosity curiosity is his whole business. One of the pupils

645
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: that the guild Hall was George Martin. Very astonishing, but

646
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: I mean so by the time she finally met George

647
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: as her daughter's boyfriend's record you said, it was like, oh,

648
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: of course I know him. He was an OVA player.

649
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: So how much time does Paul spend in the music

650
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: room downstairs, off and on whenever he wanted to use

651
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: the piano? I think, and of course only when he

652
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 1: was there, because sometimes they were on the road, and

653
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: so was his tenure at our house. We no it

654
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: would it be generally speaking, just him, or would the

655
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: other guys dropped by? Well, this particular occasion, and I

656
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: remember John Lennon came over, but that only happened near

657
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: the beginning. I think this was shortly after, because increasingly

658
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: they started to write separately, tell the famous story about

659
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: the famous song, the famous stories when John came over

660
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: and he and pulled it down in this music room

661
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: in the basement for a couple of hours, and then

662
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: Paul Say's head out and called up the stairs to me.

663
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: I was in my bedroom at the top on the

664
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: top floor, and I wanted to come down and hear

665
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: the song they had just written. So I said, yes,

666
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: I'd love to, and I came down and I sat

667
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: on the little sofa and they'd written the song clearly,

668
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 1: evidently without guitars. The guitars were upstairs, and they sat

669
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: side by side on the piano bench like a duet,

670
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: and both played the piano and hammered out this brand

671
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: new song called I Want to Hold Your Hand. And

672
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: asked me what I thought, and you said, I said,

673
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: it's great, It's very good. And I think probably the

674
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: key thing I said is please played again, because because

675
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: that's what makes it right, the right, no matter what

676
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: the actors. And how similar was it to the final record? Oh,

677
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: it was very similar, but piano, you know, but it

678
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: was the song was exactly there, and he he at

679
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: the time, Paul, I remember Paul explaining to me what

680
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: some pots were going to be, you know, where there

681
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: was going to be a little guitaric or something, so

682
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: that he had an arrangement in his head, but they

683
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: played it on the piano. But the song is identical.

684
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 1: So in any event, now you have this deal, you're

685
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: a and R guy says if you have any material, yes,

686
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: if you know of any other songs, And I remembered

687
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: hearing this song called Well without Love that Paul had

688
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: played me at some point on guitar upstairs in his

689
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: bedroom or miro my Fagett which and I admired it,

690
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: and he told me at the time that it was

691
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: a reject song that they weren't going to do that.

692
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: John didn't think much of it or didn't think it

693
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: was right for the Beatles or whatever, and it was unfinished.

694
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: You know, you've written a couple of uses, no bridge

695
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 1: and had been rejected. So when when Neil Norman asked

696
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: me this question, that's when I said, I think perhaps

697
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: I do. And I went back to Paul that evening,

698
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: I think, or the following evening maybe he was offered

699
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: a gig I don't recall, and said, is that song

700
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: still a reject and is it still in an orphan

701
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: and he said yes, we're not doing it. And I said, well,

702
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: we've just got a record deal and could we try

703
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: and work out and arrangement of it. I like that

704
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: song very much, I remember, have fond memories of it.

705
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: And he said, fine, that would be fine, and he

706
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: wrote out the lyrics and the chords for me, which

707
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: I have safely locked away and highly enjoyed in case,

708
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: in case the world crashes and the music business finally

709
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: completely run to Southern Pasta. But m and and he

710
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: also he made a demo for me on either my

711
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: or his real real machine, I forge you. We both did.

712
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: I had a I forget that. I think my first

713
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: one I was called like a play tone or something,

714
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: and then I got a superior when called a pterograph

715
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: um and Paul Brunel, and then he got a second Brunell.

716
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: Because we were playing with plugging them into each other

717
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: and dubbing back and forth, and the two of you

718
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: together with yes and when you got your record deal.

719
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: Was he encouraging or was two wrapped up in his

720
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: own world? He was the delighted. He didn't. I don't

721
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: remember I having much to do with it or anything,

722
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: but but he said, oh, great, well done. Okay, so

723
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: he writes down world and I said, can we do

724
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: that song? He said yes, um as I official date

725
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: Norman gave me a date that he booked at em

726
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: I Studios with musicians to record these four or five

727
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: chosen songs. And I did at the Nagpole to write

728
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: the bridge in time for that. There was no bridge. Finally,

729
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 1: when when he finally sits down, do you have any

730
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: idea how long it took? It was very quick. He

731
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: I literally asked him. I said, please, you know, we

732
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: sessions in a week. We really need a bridge, or

733
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: two weeks or whatever it was. And he said okay

734
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: and went in his bedroom with his guitar and came

735
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: out in ten minutes with his brat brilliant. That's the

736
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: So I wait in a while. But that was the bridge,

737
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: and it was perfect, and we recorded the song and

738
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: the day of that session. By the end of the session,

739
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: everyone was sure that was it. We were no longer

740
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: going to be folkis this was gonna be our first single?

741
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: We're gonna be pop stars? And and did you play

742
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: on the record or just sing? I don't think I

743
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: played at all. I think we just sang. I don't

744
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: think either us played on that record. And how often

745
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: how long after the track has recorded is it released

746
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:34,479
Speaker 1: one month and an instant success, instant success in the UK.

747
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: They actually had Jane on jukebox Jewty that week and

748
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: she particularly asked that they you know, she wanted to

749
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: make sure they weren't going to play it, and they

750
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: lied and sprang it onto on live television. UM, and

751
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: she said, oh, you told me, you you promised you

752
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't do and and of course she said, I love it.

753
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: I think it's a great and she they mentioned that

754
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: it was her your brother yesterday, explained and and she said,

755
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: of course it's I'm trying to tell you it's going

756
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: to be a huge it will be number one. It's brilliant.

757
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 1: And actually she was right, yes it was. And you're

758
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: now on this rocket ship to the moon. And what

759
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 1: are your thoughts, Um, we barely had time to think.

760
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't I think what you mostly don't

761
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: realize is that you've just beaten two million to one odds.

762
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: Because what we now know is, you know, getting a

763
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: record deal itself. The odds are against you. We beat

764
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: those odds. But then when you think I've got a

765
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: record deal, now it's all done, I'm gonna be a

766
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: big stop, now we know those odds are another million

767
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: to one. UM, We didn't know that, and so it

768
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: seemed kind of natural. Signed a record deal, make a record,

769
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: comes out, goes down. But then of course just what

770
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: we meant right away. But then, of course, so the

771
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: other odds being able to follow it up exactly, and

772
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: and of course the fact that when some one in

773
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: the UK, then Europe, and then finally you know, sometime

774
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: later to utmost incredulity number one in America. And at

775
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: the time, because royalty rates were low and it's a

776
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: crooked business, were you anticipating great remuneration? We thought we'd

777
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: get rich and we didn't. Yes, I mean the deal

778
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: then was one penny a record. Uh, we've went ten

779
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: ten pennies an album. There was one English penny to

780
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: an off sense per records. A million sound record, there's

781
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: a million pennies. It's about four thousand pounds, except you

782
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: got half royalties overseas. Of course it's just the US,

783
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: right right, so that actually that million sounding you got

784
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: like to do you do you get any royalties at

785
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: this late date. Yes, I think it's about a hundred

786
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: pounds a year or so. Um, it does come in.

787
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: So okay, you record that first try, you am I

788
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 1: very meticulous about it. But yes, it's it is minimal.

789
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: That's a whole separate conference, separate conversation. But at least

790
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: you're in in the black. There are many people with

791
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: many hit records that you don't get any money. So uh,

792
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: then you immediately start to work playing World without Love. Yes,

793
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: I mean immediate things with TV shows. Uh. The first

794
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: thing that happens when you have it in the UK

795
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: is you're on top of the pops, You're on Thank

796
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: You like he saws, You're on all the big TV shows.

797
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: And we did those straightaway, both live. And what does

798
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: Paul say about his hip becoming song becoming? He was thrilled,

799
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: he was delighted. I mean he was thrilled. It was

800
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: that song was going to do nothing and he was

801
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: very happy and sold them and happy for us. At

802
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: what point you say we have to follow this up

803
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: and what's the thought process there? We didn't have say anything.

804
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting that aspect of it, because people say, well,

805
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: how did you get so many great songs out of

806
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: the Beatles. The only one that we got was the

807
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: first one, and that was the story I've told, But

808
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: no question about it. I mean the Beatles you have

809
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: to remember, took their role as songwriters very seriously. There's

810
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: interviews if you look where you know. Well, first of all,

811
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: let me say this, every interview we did, every interview

812
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: they did, the question you could be certain was going

813
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: to be asked is what are you gonna do? This

814
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: is all over because the assumption, the confidence assumption, was

815
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: that a pop career was like two years. That's famous.

816
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's been following Ringdow for fifty years. I'm

817
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: gonna want to hear a salon right exactly exactly, and

818
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: Jona Paul would say, we will be songwriters. Their heroes

819
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: were not only Elvis, their heroes were Governor King and

820
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: Lieber and so that they mentioned that, they say, we

821
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: that's who we want to be. And they saw that

822
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: as a longer lived career then being a pop star.

823
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: So and they knew that songwriting was specific. You wrote

824
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: songs for other people as well as yourself. And so

825
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: one of the duties of a songwriter is to write

826
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: the follow up, because you don't want somebody else cashing

827
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: in on your hit and having it on your coattails.

828
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: Because the follow up to a number one record, it's

829
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: always some kind of hit, and so when we got

830
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: back from a couple of early visits to America promoting

831
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: well Without Love, um, we got back to England. Nobody

832
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: I know was written with the bridge and handed to us.

833
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 1: No begging involved, no groveling, requirre, okay, just slowing down

834
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: for a second roll. Without Love was a hit. I

835
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: bought the album white cover on Capitol Records. When was

836
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: that record cut? That's a good question, I would guess,

837
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: probably between it being in England and in America. I'm guessing, okay,

838
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: so this is before nobody I know, yes, yes, we

839
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: had not yet nobody nobody remember specifically, here's I'll follow up,

840
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: cut it, put it out, because don't forget. Also, there's

841
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: that weird thing that seems odd now but didn't at

842
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: the time, that singles and albums in England were completely separate.

843
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: The singles weren't on albums. Well, I certainly know when

844
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 1: the battles I generally speaking, and I'm trying to remember

845
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: the whole logic of it. But the idea was, no,

846
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: it's like cheating to put a single on an album.

847
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: The single is one thing, and then you make an album.

848
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 1: It's a separate entity. And that's where the Beatles said,

849
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: and I think that's why we did it, except well

850
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: without I probably was on our first album. So I

851
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: it's a muddel. But you you thought of them separately,

852
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: as separate ventures. So you you come back. Nobody I

853
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: know is served right up to you record that. Yes,

854
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: and of course that becomes a hit too. Yes, yes,

855
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: that was a big hit too. Yeah, okay, and then

856
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: how long till the next track? Uh? I don't know

857
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: what was next? Was? It was iteces We should look

858
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: at the order of singles. I should know it in

859
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: my head, but uh, because there were there the poll

860
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: ones whose um I Don't want to See You Again

861
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: was another poll song? But that was my favorite. The

862
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: great course, the only people could write melodies and courses

863
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: like that today. I know it's a good song, and

864
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: I suspect I go to pieces was next. And that's

865
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: the song we got from Del Shannon while we were

866
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: on the road with him in Australia. You got it

867
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: how we overheard him trying to sell it to the

868
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: Searches who were on the tour he we were touring

869
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: with them and Dell and Dell had written this song

870
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: which is a very undel Shannon sounding song. It's not

871
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: his usual jangly, a minor kind of song, and and

872
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: we overheard him trying to plug it to the searchers

873
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: and then declining I think mistakenly because they could have

874
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: made a really good record of it with their electric

875
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: troll string vibe, but they chose not to. And we

876
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: overheard it and arstell if we could learn it, and

877
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: he said fine, and torture to us, and we worked

878
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: out a version out there on the road which we

879
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: really liked. He liked it. So at that point we

880
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: said formally, please put this song on hold, you know,

881
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: tell your publisher or whatever you have to do. We

882
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: will cut this as soon as we get back to

883
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: the UK from this Australian tour, which we did. And

884
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: when do you realize it's drying up and it's gonna

885
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: be over? Uh? It seems like a long time, but

886
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: it was probably four or five years I suppose altogether.

887
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 1: I mean we have to look at the list of singles,

888
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: but I know d Of went dry a bit and

889
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: then Lady could Dive. It was a huge hit, which

890
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: was a song written by Mike Leander, who else wrote

891
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: the strings for She's leaving home a very talented songwriter

892
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: and arranger, and that was a big hit, especially in America,

893
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: especially in Canada to actually, and more so than the UK.

894
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: And then Paul wrote Woman for Us and that was it,

895
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: and so he kept going for a while. Then we

896
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: made this album, A Hot, Cold, and Custard, which was

897
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: our kind of weird, ose psychedelic album, which some of

898
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: which I really like to this day. And it's become

899
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: a kind of hard to get album. Is this incredibly

900
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: tiny cult following. When I say called, I really mean

901
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: or three people exactly, but it has its followers. And uh,

902
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: but that didn't do very well. I didn't never hit

903
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: on it. So I suppose that's when started to things

904
00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: started to diminish. And as I've mentioned before, go then

905
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: I never kind of broke up. We didn't have a

906
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: we didn't give up. We didn't break out. We didn't

907
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: have a terminal row like the Evely's. We didn't do

908
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: a lost gig. We just both look kind of drifting

909
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: into other ventures. He wanted to make a solo record.

910
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to be a record producer, and

911
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: so on, how do you decide you want to be

912
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: a record very first time I walked into a studio

913
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 1: and saw how it was done, so how records were made,

914
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: so what the producer got to do. That you could

915
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: hire great musicians and give them ideas and tell them

916
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: what to do and try to nurture them into giving

917
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: a better performance and and stuff. I loved all of that.

918
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: I fell in love with the process pretty much immediately.

919
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: I remember consciously thinking, this is something I'd like to do.

920
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: So when it fades out with Peter and Gordon, you

921
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: end up going to work for Apple at the record

922
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: company as a A and R talent. Yes, yes, Um.

923
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: I had numerous conversations with Paul. By this time he

924
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: moved out, but we'd remained friends. Was he still with

925
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: your sister? At one point during this whole process? He

926
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: wasn't um And people always asked me if that was weird,

927
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: but I have no recognition of it being weird. So

928
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: somehow we retend we just don't talk about that kind

929
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: of stuff. My old friendship, um throughout whatever was going on,

930
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: and and uh so I remember being Cavinish Avenue in

931
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: his house and explaining the whole Apple concept and plan

932
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: and which was largely years I mean, the other Beatles

933
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: were on board, but it was his invention. And during

934
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: that process he asked me, first of all, if I

935
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: would produce some records for Apple. He at that point

936
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: you hadn't produced anywhere I had produced some What did

937
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: you produce? The very first record I produced was and

938
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: I owe this man a great debt of gratitude because

939
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: he he'd watched the man in questions Paul Jones. Remember

940
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: Paul Jones, lead singer of Manford Man, brilliant singer, Um,

941
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: you know did the vocal? And do I did? You say?

942
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: You know? The the band continues to be called Man

943
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: from Man. That was the key element. Of course they

944
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: had the Springsteen covers in the seventies, but you always

945
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: wonder whether they could return to that side. Right Well,

946
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: the Springsteen covers was Mike Dab, but of course the

947
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: originally saying it was Paul Jones who did do I did?

948
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: He was just so one of my great brilliant vocal

949
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: the bridge and that's a I just literally remember they

950
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: were falling in love all that. We always just to

951
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: crack me up. As someone who's going to school. I

952
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: knew we was following in lots and he would say

953
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: it should be work right, um of originally the Excitis,

954
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: of course, you know, but we all collected all these

955
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: American records, learned the songs um Paul Jones was making

956
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: his solo record. Paul had watched me in some of

957
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: the later Peter and Gordon records, of which I was

958
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: not the official producer, but with which I was getting

959
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: increasingly involved in the production, with John Burgess who was

960
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: our producer, and Paul, who was also, by the way,

961
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: one of the world's great harmonica plasses you may know, brilliant,

962
00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: extraordinarily talented guy now still great and um. He asked

963
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 1: me if I would produce some tracks with him. He'd

964
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: got a budget from me and my for a solo album,

965
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: so I owe him a great debt. And the first

966
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: record ever produced was Paul Jones doing a cover of

967
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: this song. I had chosen a b G songcle and

968
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: the Sun Will Shine, and I wanted to make sure

969
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: they have a really good band to my very first

970
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: ever production. So whatever notoriety that minor hit and the

971
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: Sun Will Shine by Paul Jones has now is a

972
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: function of the band I put together to play on it,

973
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: which was Nicky Hopkins on piano, legendary studio Pianost brilliant,

974
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: amazing guy, Paul Samuel Smith on bass who was the

975
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: bass player and the Yardbirds who went on to produce

976
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: Collie Simon and Cat Stevens and was a great friend

977
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: of mine. And then on guitar Jeff Beck taking No Chances,

978
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: and on drums Paul McCartney because I was very familiar

979
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: with Paul's drumming and I loved it, and I think

980
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: I could probably get him to play on a session

981
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: as like drum this because it would be a change

982
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: of course. So I did and he said yes, Jeff back.

983
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know at the time, but I got to

984
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: him through Paul Paul Samuel Smith, who was because at

985
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: that point Jeff was in the band with Paul in

986
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 1: the Odd Birds, so that was the band. And we

987
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: recorded two tracks, um and the Sun Will Shine and

988
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: the Dog Presides, which is the B side, And was

989
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: there any success with those tracks? The A side was

990
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: a minor hit we going into the charts that he's

991
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: something I think about and would you produce anything else

992
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: before you have this conversation with I did more tracks

993
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: with Paul Jones, and maybe Paul was aware of them.

994
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: I'm not sure anyway, but Paul and I've literally been

995
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: in the studio with you. But to what degree were

996
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: you selling yoursell phone? To what degree was he you know,

997
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: already sold? It didn't occur to me, no, I mean

998
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: when he offered me the job, I was not selling myself.

999
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I mean, no, he asked me the question

1000
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: one night, you know, how would you about producing Marx Apple?

1001
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: Of course I said yes immediately on what base as

1002
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: he asked that. I'm not really sure, but I know

1003
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: he had played on one track at least he'd watch

1004
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 1: me work, So maybe that was okay, total left field.

1005
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: Because we hear all this lore about Apple, Yeah, we

1006
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: hear about magic Alex, Yes, what was really going on there? Um?

1007
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: Magic Alex was a fascinating guy, Alex Mada's Greek um

1008
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: sort of inventor. He he knew some real science. He

1009
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: was talking about stuff that science should and eventually might

1010
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: and sometimes now today can do. But he was exaggerating hugely.

1011
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: In my view, he was kind of a bit of

1012
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: a fraud because he would convince the Beatles he could

1013
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: do stuff that he couldn't, you know. But on the then,

1014
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: some of the things he would talk about face recognition,

1015
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 1: voice recognition, a front door that would tell friends from

1016
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: foe on that basis, all of which he told Georgia

1017
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: aut George believed him completely, and John um not crazy,

1018
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: but exaggerated. And but he was a Charlottean he realized

1019
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: he was ripping them off in the end. Well, yes,

1020
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: I mean I said delusional. He was a bit delusional,

1021
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: I think, and a bit of a Charlatan. And and

1022
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: I think I read that he died, didn't he last

1023
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: year or something? And ripping off? I mean, I don't

1024
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: think he worked away with giant gobs of money or anything.

1025
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: But did he love being part of the entourage of

1026
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: the Beatles? Did he love the fact that they believed him?

1027
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: And did he go overboard telling them stuff he could

1028
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: do that couldn't really be done. Yes, charlatan implies more

1029
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: of a scheme than I think this necessarily was. I

1030
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: think he got carried away. Okay, so now you go

1031
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: to work for Apple. Are our submissions coming in? Yes,

1032
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: they took these ads. You know there was a print

1033
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: Dad saying send us to your tapes. You know we

1034
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: will listen, And and we did. I had four or

1035
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 1: five people working for me, um, sifting through these tapes

1036
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: and uh, and then I would listen to any it

1037
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: was any good and I would have a and m

1038
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: meetings with as many beatles as would turn up and

1039
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: placed after them, and we never found anything. That's the tragedy.

1040
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: And that's what people don't realize. It was awful. I mean,

1041
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: the terrible thing is that when you say that, you know,

1042
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: the standard of what you get is just ghostly. And

1043
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: it would be, you know, reams of lyrics. You know

1044
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: that they know John is gonna want to set to

1045
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: music because they're so brilliant and meaningful, and they would

1046
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: just you know, ironically, the paradigm maintains today. But at

1047
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: the time, since they're starting a label, do they all

1048
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: ultimately have the I vs. We're gonna become bad Finger? Yes,

1049
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: the ivys were running by mal EVANSA and what about

1050
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: Mary Hopkin and all those things? Did they did they

1051
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: have those from the get go? Or do they find

1052
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: those things marching on as things marched on? But early

1053
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: on in the process, Um, there's a story to each one.

1054
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean Mary Hopkins, Twiggy Supermodel to a back when

1055
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: there was only one Supermol was watching a television talent

1056
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: show called Opportunity Knocks, and she called Paul and said

1057
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: this is girl and is really good. He called me,

1058
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: said you should watch this, and I think by the

1059
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: time he called me, she'd finished him. Of course that

1060
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: was it. You couldn't watch anything again. And but she

1061
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: she got through the next week, so I was able

1062
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: to watch her next week Welsh singing a Joan Bays

1063
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 1: song Beautiful. Paul signed her up, told us to sign

1064
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 1: her up. Derek Taylor and I and somebody else drove

1065
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: to Wales to meet with her father and sign her up,

1066
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: and he already knew the song he was gonna cut.

1067
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: He did this song, Those were the Days in a

1068
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: nightclub some months earlier, sung by an American duo called

1069
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: Jean and Something, and he filed the song away in

1070
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: his head. And this is the father. No, no, Paul, Paul, Paul, sorry, Paul, gotcha,

1071
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: gotcha go. When we signed Mary, he'd already got the

1072
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: song in his mind that we were going to record

1073
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: would and knew exactly how to do it, so, I mean,

1074
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: which is remarkable, And he said, we're gonna do this

1075
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: song Those with the Days. We found the song. They

1076
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 1: said they'd written it, but actually they had written the words.

1077
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: It was a Russian folk song melody. But we did

1078
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: the song and Paul already knew how he exactly I

1079
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: wanted to do it. Well. The production was empathetical to

1080
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: anything on the radio at that time. Yes, he wanted

1081
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,439
Speaker 1: the symbol on which is that dring ring ring ring

1082
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: ding ding instrument, So like a zither you play with hammers,

1083
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: but like a hammad dulcimer. And um, he had that

1084
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: whole thing in his head. I helped him produce the record,

1085
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: but it was all his idea and there could be

1086
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: no follow up because, oh there was a follow up.

1087
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: What was the follow up? Pit, I can't remember what

1088
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: was next. The other hit she ended up having was Goodbye,

1089
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: which Paul wrote a great song. Um. I have a

1090
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: version of that somewhere I did with with uh Natalie

1091
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: Merchant who loved that song too. Um, but I don't

1092
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: think Maybe that wasn't the follow up. Paul did all

1093
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: autum with her and then You'd Goodbye, and then she

1094
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 1: had a hit later with Tema Harbor, which was produced

1095
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: by Tony Visconti, whom she then married. I think I

1096
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: didn't know that. I think so I might be getting

1097
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: it wrong. I guess that's a great I want to

1098
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:21,439
Speaker 1: believe it's true. Thanks for listening to the Bob Left

1099
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: Sets podcast. I hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

1100
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: There's only so much I can get into a podcast.

1101
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: But if you simply can't get enough and want to

1102
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: know more of my thoughts on the future of the

1103
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: music industry, technology and current events, you want to subscribe

1104
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: to my newsletter. Now I'm not shameless promotion. Let's dive

1105
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: back into the interview. So how do you end up

1106
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: connecting with James Taylor? Uh? The James story begins with

1107
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: Danny Korchma. Peter Gordon would be assigned a backup band

1108
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: on the US to US and and you know, you

1109
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: never knew what it was gonna be like. You'd arrive

1110
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: and and you know they so you've got a day

1111
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: to rehearse. Here's the band we booked for this leg

1112
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: of dates, this little group of Midwest dates or whatever.

1113
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: And the best one we ever had in a footnote

1114
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 1: was when we showed up in Hawaii and they hadn't

1115
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: booked your Waian man. They brought music to l A

1116
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: and we walked in the room and it was the

1117
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: best back up and and we'd ever rehearsed within our lives.

1118
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: It turned out to be the Wrecking Group Um and

1119
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: the guitar player was leading the band was particularly good,

1120
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: and I made a note of his name and phone number,

1121
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: Glenn Campbell, in order to get in touch with him

1122
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: later on. That's a digression. One of the good bands

1123
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: we had in America was a band called the king Bees,

1124
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: who were pretty good, and the guitar player was great,

1125
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: and I loved his playing. He was a big Steve

1126
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: Propper fan, as was I, and we became firm friends.

1127
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: Beyond the petermin Gordon era, Danny Korchby and I became

1128
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: close friends. I would stay with him in l a

1129
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,919
Speaker 1: and so on, and he was subsequently in a band

1130
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: with his childhood friend James Taylor, a band called The

1131
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: Flying Machine that was a New York band. They were

1132
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: not doing very well. They made half an album or

1133
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: something and the money got cut off or whatever. They

1134
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: didn't like their managers. They were suffering all the assistitudes

1135
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: in New York had to offer, including the fact that

1136
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: several of them was trying out and drugs, including James.

1137
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: The band broke up, James decided to go to London.

1138
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: He had a girlfriend in London he thought he could

1139
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: stay with, so he headed off for London. Danny Korchma said, oh,

1140
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: I have a friend in London. If you're there, you

1141
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: should in touch with him. Peter Asher, he's okay. Gave

1142
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: him my phone number, so that's why, out of the blue,

1143
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: I gotta call from this guy with a sort of

1144
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: slightly Southern American accent who introduced himself as Danny's friend James,

1145
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: and I advantaged him over. He came over and played

1146
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: me this tape he'd made a few days before, which

1147
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: I went crazy over. Do you remember what songs were

1148
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: on that type? Yes, something's wrong, something in the way

1149
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: she moves, knocking around the zoo, circle around the sun,

1150
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: and not sure what else, And he played me the

1151
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: j Then he picked up my guitar and played me

1152
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:01,919
Speaker 1: some thing else for which one one of those songs

1153
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: wasn't on the day, and played me something he had

1154
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: written more recently, and I was overwhelmed. I thought it

1155
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: was some of the best singing, the best guitar playing,

1156
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: the most original, you know combination, because he had a

1157
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: sort of folky voice and looked like a three chord folky.

1158
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: But then he played this complex, beautiful fingerpicking that had

1159
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: classical illusions in it. He'd been listening to Segovia and

1160
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: Julian Breen. He sang like Sam Cook. He played chords

1161
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: that had come from like Manhattan's records, and you know,

1162
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: it was a ridiculously great combination. And I told him

1163
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: he was wonderful. And and then we had this conversation

1164
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: that was really was kind of like this the best

1165
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: of my regulation. I said, look, in the strange coincidence,

1166
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: I have this new job. I'm head of an off

1167
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: for a record label. I can sign people, you know,

1168
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: would you like a record deal? Um? And he said yes, please,

1169
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: and I love one, And I said great. And then

1170
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: I had to explain to him whose label it was,

1171
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: and said, let's come in the office and I want

1172
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 1: you to meet everybody. And so I took him in

1173
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: the office a few days ag to met the Beatles

1174
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: signed him. He was he was the first act signed

1175
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: to Apple and the House shortly thereafter. Do you make

1176
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: the record quite quickly, I think within a month or two.

1177
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: We we spent some time rehearsing, we auditioned, we put

1178
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: an ad in the Melody Maker for a bass player,

1179
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: drummer and a yard. I mean that seems strange to me,

1180
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: especially since you hired the people for the Paul Jones gig. Yes,

1181
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: I think we wanted to at the time. I think

1182
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: mine stint was that we needed a permanent band so

1183
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: we could go out and do gigs. And there was

1184
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 1: no in the band, no thought of bringing Danny in

1185
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: the Flying Machine over from you, not at that stage.

1186
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: Now I'm not sure why not. But so you had

1187
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: that ad, did you get reasonable people? Yes, yeah, we

1188
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: had people from the ad because Melody Making all section

1189
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: of professional musicians looking for work and vice of us

1190
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: and we auditioned. We had a guy called Luis Sonamo

1191
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: to play the bass. Um Don Shin played keyboards, and

1192
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: oh we didn't have We already had a drumma because

1193
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: james best friend, Um Bishop of Ur, Joel O'Brien, who

1194
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: was in the Time Machine, was already in London um

1195
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: and we loved him, so we hired him. So we

1196
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: weren't looking for a drama that's right, We're looking for keyboard,

1197
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: I guess, guitar and bass, but I only remember the

1198
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: guitar in the basse play. It's all a bit vague,

1199
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: but we were hearsed a bunch of songs and that's

1200
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: when they got ready to make the album. Also did

1201
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: a lot of preparation because I have this idea of

1202
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: doing different kinds of arrangements on each track. I was

1203
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: very anxious at the time, probably overly anxious the people

1204
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: not just take James as a another folky. So I

1205
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: wanted to make the tracks special in some way. And

1206
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: I have this idea that maybe getting so almost classical

1207
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: arrangements with a string cord head here and some horns here,

1208
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: and you know, percussion here would be a cool thing

1209
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: to do. And I got this friend of mine, Richard Houston,

1210
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: who was the classical composing student at the Guildhall, I think,

1211
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: and a jazz trumpet player. I had played with him

1212
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: in a jazz band very I played jazz. I played

1213
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: bass very badly in a jazz band, and but he

1214
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: was a very good jazz trumpet player and a very

1215
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: good composer. I didn't want to use the straightforward arranger

1216
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean Richard Houston enough in an interview I saw

1217
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: reading saying I think Peter hied because they didn't know

1218
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: much about the Rangers. But actually, of course I did,

1219
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: because the Peter and Gordon records all ad used people

1220
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 1: like Jeff Love and very extremely excellent, totally competent popa Rangers.

1221
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: But I wanted to see clear of that and go

1222
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: a little more classical and different. So that's why I

1223
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: had Richard. But the point being, if you listen to

1224
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 1: that album now, parts of it seemed to me to

1225
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: be a little over arranged and overproduced in that sense,

1226
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: And that's why when it came to the next album,

1227
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: I scale everything back a couple of things. Although for

1228
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: a long time that was my favorite record, was unavailable

1229
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: for years and was tied up in them all the

1230
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: after lawsuits and um, it has the segues between cuts, yes,

1231
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: and I still certainly believe that to her version of

1232
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: something in the way she moves that and there is

1233
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: on the Greatest Hits album interesting. But it was not

1234
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: successful in the market. Point it was. It got some attention,

1235
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: we got some good reviews and stuff like that, but

1236
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: but no, it's not a it. So how does he

1237
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: jump from Apple to Warner Brothers? Well, we left Apple

1238
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: because of Alan Klein. A little bit slower. Yeah, when

1239
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: the Beatles you know, Apple was not doing very well

1240
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 1: because it had lurched into a million areas that we're

1241
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: not the Beatles, areas of expertise clothing, electronics with mad

1242
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: Alex and um film and television and all these other ideas,

1243
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of money was getting spent. And the

1244
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: Beatles had realized that they needed to bring in that

1245
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: they wanted to bring in a business hunt show to

1246
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 1: run the whole thing. We already had run casts running

1247
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: Apple records. We brought from Liberty Records. Who was We

1248
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: decided we needed a proper American record guy, and we

1249
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: knew run must be cool because he was married to

1250
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: Joan Collins. Just we thought it was brilliant and and

1251
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: Joan remains a great friend of mine to this day.

1252
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: Ron is sadly no longer with us. But um, they

1253
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: couldn't agree on who this business concho should be. Paul

1254
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: was suggesting his father in law Leastman, very clever man,

1255
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: brilliant lawyer, and John Older this idea that it should

1256
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: be Alan Klein. He who Alan moved in on John

1257
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: somehow and John was absolutely convinced. He convinced the other

1258
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: two Beatles and in the end won the argument I

1259
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: knew about Alan Klein. I knew he was essentially kind

1260
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: of a crook in my view. I knew him my

1261
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: reputation from friends in New York, and so I told

1262
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: James I thought this was a really bad idea and

1263
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: that we should leave if Alan was coming in Jane.

1264
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: James did have one meeting with Alan, shared my overall view,

1265
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: and so once we knew Alan was definitely coming, I

1266
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: resigned before he came. I think we do have a

1267
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: long term deal with James and Apple, though, uh, James

1268
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: had to deal with Apple. I didn't have anything I know,

1269
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 1: But how did he get out of that deal? Well?

1270
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: He didn't really. I mean at the time, we just left.

1271
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 1: I took the Monster Daves out of the basement, um

1272
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: uh and left and I got it. What did you

1273
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: do with the tapes? I've got him somewhere, I think

1274
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: still this late date, Yeah, I think. I I mean

1275
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: we transferred them obviously at some point. Okay, so, but

1276
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: when they were a copy master, there were this But

1277
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: when you're going to shop the record shop a new deal,

1278
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: isn't everybody saying don't you have a deal with Apple? Yes?

1279
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: They are, And I didn't know what would happen. Um,

1280
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,479
Speaker 1: James did have a sound contract with Apple. I didn't

1281
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: have a sound contract with anybody. I just said, you know,

1282
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: with James and with the one of the first conversations

1283
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,479
Speaker 1: I had was with Joe Smith Warner Brothers. We loved

1284
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers because of their ads. That was the ear

1285
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 1: of the stand corn in text ads and it was

1286
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 1: so brilliant because the ads, and because that was where

1287
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: Janie was was where Againerson was on the young ones

1288
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 1: that looked like home to us. Um, Mo Wahton. You

1289
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: just said to me, you know, why, how come Joe Smith.

1290
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: The answer was, actually at the time, I think Mo

1291
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: was or a prize and Joe was Warner with us,

1292
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: and I think it was my friend Joe Boyd, Who's

1293
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: who's the key character in the White White White Bicycles

1294
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: Want Bicycles and and uh exactly and and the incredible

1295
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: string man was on a brilliant guy which were also

1296
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: on Warner who was one of the sort of token

1297
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: Americans in in London for many years. He ran this

1298
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 1: thing called U Foe that was the coolest club every

1299
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: week where he used to go and see Pink Floyd

1300
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: all the time and stuff like that anyway, Joe Boyd

1301
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: very cool guy. He he told me he was working

1302
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: with Joe Smith. I guess whatever. Maybe the incredible string

1303
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: Ban were Warner by Actual they were that that would

1304
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 1: be why then? So that was it. So I had

1305
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: breakfast with Joe Smith at the Continental Hyatt House. He'd

1306
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: heard of James, He'd heard of me, you know, I

1307
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: prepped him for the meeting. He said, yes, we want

1308
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 1: to sign him. Yes, I think that album is great.

1309
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 1: And I said, well, there's one snag. You have to

1310
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: indemnify us against anything that Apple do. And he said done.

1311
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: And I think the get it right coming to you

1312
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: do that now would be impossible. And you didn't shop

1313
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: it anywhere else, didn't shop it. But I did say

1314
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: that's the one condition, because I don't want to spot

1315
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: from my the artist. I'm just signing as a manager

1316
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: getting sued as soon as I do anything. And the

1317
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: contract indemnifies us completely against anything that happens. And nothing did.

1318
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: Nothing happened. And then, incidentally, I now understand that Aline

1319
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:57,799
Speaker 1: did talk about doing us. I know he spoke publicly

1320
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: about it in his Playboy interview. Client's Playboy re view.

1321
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: He actually says he has sued us for ten million

1322
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: each or something crazy. And and I did once get

1323
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: one piece of paper some kind of thing to show

1324
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 1: cause or some stuff that, um, right around the time

1325
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: I was getting married and where I was in London

1326
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: and got got served some papers the game to some

1327
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: English lawyer and was kind of a wait and we

1328
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: see what happens next, and nothing did. And but there

1329
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: was some kind of filing of notice or something. And

1330
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: I did read since then that might have been George

1331
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: Harrison that told Alan not to sue us. Um the

1332
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: George said, no, that's not what Apple is all about,

1333
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: don't do it. And at that point Alan was still

1334
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: taking instruction from the Beatles rather than Um, so he didn't.

1335
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,919
Speaker 1: So I believe that George Harrison that did her gratitude

1336
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: for that, who doesn't really get his do correct. But um,

1337
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: those songs on the Sweet Baby James, Yes were those

1338
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: written for that album, where some of them written previously,

1339
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: I don't think any of those existed before um, so

1340
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 1: they were for the album. And you quite consciously wanted

1341
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: to make a more stripped down red Yes, and you

1342
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: make the record. How long does it take to make?

1343
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: About two weeks? Two weeks very very fast, got seven

1344
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Okay, we rehearsed every day at my house. Well,

1345
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: first I put the band together. UM. By this time

1346
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: I had met one of my greatest heroes, Carol King.

1347
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: I was a huge Governor King fan. I knew every

1348
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,680
Speaker 1: song you've written. And I also by that time I

1349
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: had the demos, the screen gems demos of all these

1350
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: songs and realized that I loved a piano playing. So

1351
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: Danny Korchma introduced me to Carol, who was a friend

1352
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: of his. I groveled for a while and then said,

1353
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: to look, I love your piano playing. Would you consider

1354
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 1: playing piano on this record? I'm about to make this

1355
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 1: guy James Taylor you don't know yet. She had not

1356
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 1: heard of him, and she said, yes, she would do that.

1357
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: Would you mind, you know, because I know you're a

1358
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: very big deal songwriter and I know you're about to

1359
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: make your own solo record, which she was, And so

1360
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: I invited over to my house to meet James, who

1361
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: was staying there at the time, and that's when they

1362
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: first met. So that was covered the UM. I found

1363
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: a druma called Russ Kunkle who had not done a

1364
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: studio session before he'd been really he'd been in the

1365
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: studio once with a band, some band that David Crosby

1366
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: had produced a single with I don't remember the name,

1367
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: and so he'd been in the studio, but he never

1368
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 1: done Countrified Uncle. I found him at a rehearsal of

1369
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: John Stewart. John Stewart whom you remember, xcor C and Trio,

1370
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,599
Speaker 1: great songwriter, cool guy. Never really forgave me. I mean,

1371
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 1: he joked about it all that, but um Russ was

1372
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 1: in his band, Russ Kunkle and Brian garofthel of a

1373
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: very good base player. Would John Stewart's band. I went

1374
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: to a John Stuart rehearsal. I loved the way Russ

1375
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: played and said to him, I'm about to make this record.

1376
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 1: You're the guy, because he he didn't play any Hal

1377
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: Blaine fills. All Blaine's genius, but he didn't play any busy,

1378
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: complicated fills. He played slow, thoughtful Ringo fills. And I said,

1379
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: you're a big Ringo fan. He's absolutely And a lot

1380
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,600
Speaker 1: of those films on that record, you know, some of

1381
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: the far and rain fills are direct Ringo rip offs,

1382
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: you know, which I've told Ringo and how much you

1383
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: know they're different, but stylistically you can see where they

1384
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:40,759
Speaker 1: came from. Um and and so that was the drummer.

1385
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: I didn't find one bass player that I fell in

1386
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: love with. We used a couple of different bass players.

1387
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 1: We used Randy Meisner on a couple of tracks, became

1388
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 1: an eagle, UM used John oh Lord John London on

1389
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 1: a couple of tracks, and then on A Far and

1390
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: Rain it's actually bread base Bode base. For that, I

1391
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: just asked that the people at the studio. I said,

1392
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: who's the great upright basse player in town? And they said, oh,

1393
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: you probably want Bobby West and I went okay, they

1394
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: said Bobby wild wild West. I went done, that clinches it.

1395
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 1: He's obviously the man for the job. And so Faring

1396
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: Rain specifically, because I think it was James's idea to

1397
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: use a Bode based, not mine. Brilliant idea. And so

1398
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: for that one, we've asked who comes in with Bobby

1399
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: wild wild West on his base case and played beautifully

1400
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: and and we we I doubled the the Bode basse pot.

1401
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: The whole Faring ragn is no electric basis all that

1402
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: grinding bass notes which are then doubled to make them

1403
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: kind of phazy and interesting. So when you're we're at

1404
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 1: the demo stage, do you realize Fire and Rain is

1405
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 1: going to be a big hit? I knew I loved it.

1406
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was a big hit. Now, okay,

1407
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: so they didn't know what was The album is done. Yes,

1408
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: you're happy with it. Yes, you give at to Warner Brothers.

1409
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: What do they say? I think they loved it? I

1410
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 1: can't remember. I mean they yeah, they were happy. Whether

1411
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 1: they went this is gonna change the means business, which

1412
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: it did, which it did, I don't think. But we're happy, Yes,

1413
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: and your recollection. How did Fire and Rain become successful gradually?

1414
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, James James out doing every Kenny gig.

1415
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 1: I could find um club. You know, our ambition at

1416
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: the time, our definition success would be selling out the

1417
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 1: folk clubs. We could sell out Bedriend in New York,

1418
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: main Point in Philadelphia, sell the Door in Washington, Troubadour

1419
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: in l A. That was the big time. And if

1420
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: you did sell Office's played there for several days. And

1421
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: in those days, if you play those clubs, could you

1422
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: end up in the black or were you in the red? Um?

1423
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:49,719
Speaker 1: You can end up in the black because you didn't

1424
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:51,560
Speaker 1: have you know, you and James on his own, we

1425
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: had no band. So that's how I first saw him

1426
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: at the cap at the Capital Theater in Port. For

1427
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: a long time we stayed solo and uh I would

1428
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,640
Speaker 1: go with him on the road and there was just

1429
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 1: him and me or so that's just him. We'd play

1430
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: college gigs where we'd get beds in the dorm because

1431
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: we couldn't afford hotels, and and Adam opening for anybody

1432
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: would have him. I remember one time got to mc

1433
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:16,759
Speaker 1: gig opening for the Who, and people thought I was crazy,

1434
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 1: and maybe I was, but and and they were right.

1435
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: I mean, not everybody paid attention. But for me, my

1436
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 1: position was, look, he's gonna be playing for like ten

1437
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: thousand people, you know, um if the front people pay attention,

1438
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's more than That's more than we're gonna

1439
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 1: stay in the club. And they did. And it literally

1440
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: you'd be in the back of the arena and there's

1441
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,720
Speaker 1: people talking and making drug deals or whatever, but you

1442
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: get near the front and gradually you suddenly are among

1443
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: these people going this is great. Who is this guy?

1444
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: You know? And that's what How do you end up

1445
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: getting hooked up with Linda ron Stop. I think it

1446
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: was a couple of years later. Um James was already

1447
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: very successful. I was in New York and somebody I

1448
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: don't remember who said, you have to go down to

1449
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,439
Speaker 1: the Bitter End and see this girl singers. She's amazing.

1450
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: They said, she's got the incredible voice, great singer, you

1451
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 1: know where sings barefoot and he's really short shorts and

1452
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,600
Speaker 1: it's ridiculously hot. And I went to see her and

1453
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: it was all true, every word of it. And and

1454
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 1: then I met her and really discovered she's one of

1455
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: the smartest, most charming, most interesting people I've ever met.

1456
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 1: So I was I was in love and and as

1457
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: singing was just so incredible, and we spoke. Then she

1458
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: was in the middle of making an album. Ah. I

1459
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: think initially we had a conversation about maybe I could

1460
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 1: help her with the production of the album, because I

1461
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:51,719
Speaker 1: got involved first as a producer. She was making halfway

1462
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 1: through the album that became Don't Cry Now, the first

1463
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: on Asylum. Yeah, she was working with a couple of

1464
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: producers who by both had been or were boyfriends UM

1465
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: John Boylan and John David Saltha, both excellent producers, but

1466
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: it was the whole thing was getting muddled, and the

1467
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 1: muddle of I mean your boyfriend, your producer and all

1468
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 1: that stuff was the thing had dragged on and got

1469
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: kind of complicated, and I think my first role was

1470
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: helping finish that. And then we did talk about management

1471
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 1: at the time. Was Boylan still the manager at that time? No,

1472
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: Boylan was not the manager. Was Herb Cohen, Yeah, whom

1473
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: she had a Herb Cohone who managed Frank Zappa and

1474
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 1: his brother Mutt Cohen, the publisher and lawyer, right, which

1475
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons herbcom could have affoord to

1476
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,679
Speaker 1: be very ligitious, which he was, which he was because

1477
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 1: he didn't have to pay his lawyer. I mean he

1478
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: paid him in some other way, you know. They had

1479
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 1: a piece of the company. And so no, Upcom was

1480
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 1: a lawyer and um the manager the manager. But I

1481
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: think they weren't speaking there were Herb become but as

1482
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: I said, he was lititios getting out of a deal

1483
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:04,760
Speaker 1: with her Cohne would not be easy. No, it's not Um.

1484
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: And at the time I just thought dectarted managing Kate

1485
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: Taylor and produced the record with Kate whom I believed

1486
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 1: him very strongly. It was great, great singing still is

1487
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: and um so I think I said the time, I

1488
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,200
Speaker 1: don't think the practical me to manage you now. And

1489
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 1: but then Kate decided the music business at that stage

1490
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: was not for her, and you gotta Withdrew for a bit.

1491
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 1: And at that point I went back to Linda and said, look,

1492
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 1: if he's still interested, let's talk management. We did. She

1493
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: asked me to be a manager. Meanwhile, we don't cry now.

1494
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 1: Album had already come out, come and gone. I'm not

1495
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: sure of the timing maybe, and because in reality she

1496
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 1: was totally nowhere. She had the hits with the Stone

1497
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 1: Ponies to those hits and then made records for Capital

1498
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 1: that did weren't successful. Well long long time was a

1499
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 1: solo it wasn't it. I thought it was Stone Ponies.

1500
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 1: I think different drum was different drums with Stone Pony whatever,

1501
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,640
Speaker 1: But those were career She had one solo hit a

1502
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 1: long long time and and then was making the I

1503
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: think I'm not sure we get sold that somewhe and uh,

1504
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 1: but you're right. She then negotiated a way out of

1505
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 1: the hubcoing deal. I took no commissions for the first

1506
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 1: two years in my wow, because he took it all.

1507
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: I think because he took it all, UM, something like that.

1508
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 1: I know it didn't make any money for a while,

1509
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: and a deal was made that because I said, you

1510
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 1: can't possibly pay two people at once. You know, I'm

1511
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: in this for the long haul. Let's get her about

1512
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 1: of the picture. So he got paid off, and and

1513
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 1: him then his manager and producer. I don't know what

1514
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 1: I thyears I spose. So you ultimately make the record,

1515
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 1: the second record for Asylum, which ends up coming out

1516
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: on Capitol, which is right, which is a huge juggernaut,

1517
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 1: with the first hit being You're No Good? Um, how

1518
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: much credit to the arrangement and of that do we

1519
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 1: give Andrew Gold? I would say the arrangements him and me,

1520
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: UM and Kenny Edwards contributed a bit. A great bass

1521
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,879
Speaker 1: player was was an original member of the Sun Bunnies

1522
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 1: contributed as well, So UM who found the song. Linda

1523
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: and I both knew the song. I think lind had

1524
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,519
Speaker 1: sung it before. I think she used to do it

1525
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: occasionally in a set, but in a very different arrangement.

1526
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 1: And I knew it, oddly enough, not from the original version,

1527
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 1: not from UM Betty Everett, but from the Swinging Blue

1528
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 1: Jeans who had a number one record I think in

1529
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: the UK with it, which I loved, and I then

1530
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 1: went back and of course I had Betty Everetts, but

1531
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 1: Swinging Blue Jeans were one who brought that song to

1532
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: my attention. That record is really good. How long does

1533
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: it take it a cut? You're no good? I mean

1534
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,559
Speaker 1: a few days. We tried it a couple of different ways,

1535
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 1: ended up doing a very constructed, kind of modern in

1536
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 1: that sense version. Andrew played the drums first. I think

1537
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 1: I think we mapped it all out in our heads,

1538
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 1: except that we had a sixteen bars section for the

1539
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 1: solo that was just blank. And I think you're saying

1540
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: we will think that's the record we and we left

1541
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: it blank. We figured we'd put something in there later.

1542
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: And Andrew played the drums, a couple of guitar players.

1543
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,679
Speaker 1: Ed Black played real guitar in it. Um and Andrew

1544
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: played the world it's a part and but it was

1545
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 1: very constructed. It was very much one thing at a time.

1546
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 1: We might have cut the track drums and guitar or

1547
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:38,560
Speaker 1: something like that. And Kenny Edwards played the bass. That

1548
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: might have been our basic track, um, and it was

1549
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:44,679
Speaker 1: all coming up just right how I how I meant,

1550
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 1: And then we did. There was a point where Andrew

1551
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, now let's make something great and

1552
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 1: we sat down and that was the two of us

1553
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: figured out that guitar extravaganza that was the solo and

1554
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,680
Speaker 1: I was a very long night, um it was. It

1555
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 1: was on all night and um and and we tried

1556
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,639
Speaker 1: all these ideas, you know, and Andrew played it. All

1557
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 1: the ideas were I think both of us, um, because

1558
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 1: I had a lot of thoughts about the different tonalities

1559
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 1: we could use, and so did Andrew. And he's brilliant

1560
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 1: of that stuff. So that was totally joined effort. Then

1561
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 1: Linda showed up the next day like lunchtime. We were

1562
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: still there. You know, this was the what were we

1563
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 1: in the seventies and it was the cocaine era, and

1564
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,640
Speaker 1: and Linda showed up all like scrubbed and clean, and

1565
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 1: we were all like oily and disgusting and and and

1566
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 1: still up and and but immensely proud, and we pledged Linda.

1567
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 1: And she hated it. She hated it. Her vocal was

1568
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:53,639
Speaker 1: already on it. She'd done a vocal. Okay, she hated

1569
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:56,639
Speaker 1: it because she said, to you, it sounds like the Beatles,

1570
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 1: I hate it. And then what happened We said, well,

1571
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: it does kind of sound like the Beatles, Yes, but

1572
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: that was kind of what we meant, and we love it.

1573
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: Tried some other guitar players on this. We tried alternate

1574
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 1: versions of the solo. So how did you convince she

1575
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:13,200
Speaker 1: changed her mind? She she she After a day of

1576
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 1: trying with a couple of guitar plays, Kenny Edwards particular,

1577
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: we tried all kinds of other parts, and I was

1578
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: doing my best to be patting and encouraging and open.

1579
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 1: But eventually we played at the other, the older one

1580
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: a couple of times said we know you. She didn't

1581
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:30,760
Speaker 1: know what you're You're right, it's great. I'm sorry I

1582
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: was wrong. Okay, but when it's done done, you know

1583
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 1: you have a smash. Yes I did. Um, I've definitely

1584
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 1: had that. If this isn't the number one record, I

1585
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 1: don't know what is feeling. And the record comes out,

1586
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: goes to number one and then the rest of the

1587
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 1: album blows up. Yes, and you know, I'm sure you

1588
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: had no anticipation would become this big. No, we didn't,

1589
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing was because that's when it ended

1590
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: up on Capital, his Capital of this bizarre deal where

1591
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: they got to choose which record to take. And I

1592
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 1: remember very well day Al Corey came by the studio

1593
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: to listen to the record. That was his contractual right

1594
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: and and he at the time he said, um, when

1595
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 1: he had you a new good he said, I personally

1596
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 1: guarantee you a number one record. This is kind of

1597
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:21,400
Speaker 1: a tu question about asking. Anyway, the record was a

1598
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:25,600
Speaker 1: huge juggernaut on Capitol. Subsequent albums were on Asylum. Do

1599
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: you think that Capitol did a better job for you

1600
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: than Asylum? Maybe Um Salm was a great label. They

1601
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: did very well for us, no question. But was al

1602
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 1: really determined to show them? Was there a moment when

1603
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 1: he told David Geffen this is the record I want.

1604
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: I'm going through this album and it's going to be gigantic,

1605
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, And of course David, who's genius as we

1606
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 1: all know, came out very well out of it. All.

1607
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 1: You know, people are gonna how can you give away

1608
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 1: that record? He still made a lot of money off it.

1609
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: Al Corey and his team did all the work, and

1610
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: I was one of the great promotion men of all time. Literally,

1611
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 1: you know those are He's the one who made Greece

1612
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 1: and Saturday Night Fever. Yes he you know, Asylum David's

1613
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:08,600
Speaker 1: level did not have a promosion guy that good of

1614
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: that determined there was nobody that right. And I was

1615
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 1: a maniac, you know. He was one of those guys

1616
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:16,880
Speaker 1: up on the phone at six am to all these guys,

1617
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, on every Tuesday or Wednesday, whatever day it was.

1618
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't remember. There was a big deal, you know,

1619
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: and yelling and screaming and and just to go back

1620
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: to the delivered the so Geffen still had a piece

1621
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: of the record even though it was on capit. Yes, okay,

1622
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: that was something that wasn't going and and and and

1623
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:36,679
Speaker 1: then also of course he had Linda, so of course

1624
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 1: for the ensuing He's coming off a number one album.

1625
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden you're Mr West Coast. Yes,

1626
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,560
Speaker 1: so you end up with you make a record with

1627
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 1: J D. Salther, Yes? And are you the manager there too? No?

1628
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: Who else did you manage in that era? Um? Uh,

1629
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 1: Joanie at some point after Elliott, Carol King, at some point,

1630
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 1: um Randy Newman and a few other people, some of

1631
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: whom did were not successful. Um, it wasn't only it

1632
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 1: nothing is. But yeah, no, I didn't manage obviously because

1633
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 1: you know j D was part of Evings Empire and

1634
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: and but I produced j D. I produced Andrew Gold.

1635
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 1: You know, So how did you have time to be

1636
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 1: both a record producer and a manager. Had a very

1637
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,639
Speaker 1: good team at my company. I had some great people,

1638
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: cagill Ara Coslow, woman called Lorie, Gloria Boys and some others. Um,

1639
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 1: and I worked all the time, which I like to

1640
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: do anyway, I still do. And so how did it

1641
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 1: fade out? Um, Peter as your management? Well, you know,

1642
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 1: we didn't really fade out. I mean, that's the good

1643
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:02,759
Speaker 1: part about it, actually, because I specifically quit the Rash management,

1644
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 1: I mean when it was still doing well. And um,

1645
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: Tommy Mottola offered me a job at Tony and I

1646
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 1: took it. And at the time I sort of maybe

1647
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: half hope the Peter Rash manager would survive without me,

1648
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:20,600
Speaker 1: But it didn't. And that should in a minute. So

1649
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: you you've just seen that move. Basically, the offer was

1650
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 1: so good. The offer was good. The was the one

1651
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,680
Speaker 1: thing I haven't done was be a record company. And

1652
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:32,760
Speaker 1: I did like the idea of not having to worry

1653
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 1: about whether you're gonna make money on you know the

1654
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:36,680
Speaker 1: fact that someone saying we'll pay you a couple of

1655
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: million dollars and you get a big old expense again.

1656
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,639
Speaker 1: And that was the golden age when recompanies are making

1657
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 1: a fortune, you know, because the CD replaced me. Yeah nothing.

1658
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: They they persuaded everyone to buy their intact recordrection all

1659
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 1: over something they dream of. Now you know they could

1660
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: five one be it? No? So what what What was

1661
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: the experience like working at Sony? It was great? I

1662
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:03,240
Speaker 1: mean I loved it. I learned a lot um including

1663
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 1: he was learning that some of the things as artists

1664
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,560
Speaker 1: and managers, we don't believe record everybody's were up to

1665
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,600
Speaker 1: they were, you know, even the most obvious things that

1666
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 1: they don't tell you. Oh there is no priorities, you know,

1667
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:18,680
Speaker 1: we working right And then now then you're in a

1668
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: meeting going fight for this one, don't worry about that one,

1669
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, and some poor aunts is just getting pushed

1670
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 1: off the desk. And then you go from Sony to Sanctuary, right. Yes,

1671
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 1: I left Sony when my contract ran out and was

1672
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:37,599
Speaker 1: not renewed. I was a consultant for a few years,

1673
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 1: but ultimately was not renewed. And that then finally the

1674
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: Holmtola ear of course, and everyone changed, and then I

1675
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 1: was sanctuary for a while. Yes, and so but unlike

1676
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 1: many people of your vintage, you're still working quite hard.

1677
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:54,080
Speaker 1: I am. So you're in probably involved with Steve Martin

1678
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 1: and his musicals. It saw us a little bit about that,

1679
01:28:57,280 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 1: well that began. I mean, I'm in a friend of

1680
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 1: he's for a long time, kind of forever. I mean, Steve,

1681
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 1: let's remember open for Linda Ronson at some point and uh,

1682
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,519
Speaker 1: but we would have been off and on, but we

1683
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: sort of renewed our friendship a bit in in in

1684
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 1: some way or another. And I was having dinner at

1685
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:20,640
Speaker 1: his house in New York and he played me some

1686
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 1: songs that he and Needy Proquelled created. He'd written some

1687
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: banjo pieces, she'd taken them away and written some songs

1688
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 1: kind of on top of them. So they'd co written

1689
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 1: these very good songs. And he played me to them

1690
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 1: to me over dinner, and I told him that they

1691
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 1: should make a record together. So this is great stuff.

1692
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 1: You definitely should make an album, and his how you

1693
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 1: should do it, and I said, don't make it like

1694
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:46,919
Speaker 1: a pure blue grass album. You can experiment with other textures,

1695
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:49,640
Speaker 1: but let's yes, have violins on there, but make it

1696
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 1: like strings and you know, we can bring some other

1697
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: players and you know, not make it just a blue

1698
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,640
Speaker 1: bross record. And I was actually on the plane home

1699
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 1: the next day when he emailed mes and you want

1700
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: to produce the album, and I went yes please, and

1701
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 1: well yes, yes, yes, actually emailed. I remember, I have

1702
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 1: the email, and so that was that. We made that

1703
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 1: record for Rounder and I did what I proposed and

1704
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 1: was at esperanzispolding plane. It had little orchestral moments. I

1705
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 1: made it not blue dress and the album did very well,

1706
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 1: people liked and so on, and so that because that

1707
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:23,800
Speaker 1: I made the second album, I got involved with the

1708
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: musical Bright Star, produced the album of the soundtrack UH

1709
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 1: Stays cost album and so on, and I just finished

1710
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: more recently probably Dross album with Stephen the step Steve

1711
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 1: Canyon Rangers and so on. So because we found we

1712
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 1: really enjoyed working together, and I was music supervisor on

1713
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:45,760
Speaker 1: the show and all this stuff, and we become even

1714
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: much closer friends, which is great. So I'm yeah, I'm

1715
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 1: doing all that. Not to the degree you can talk

1716
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:53,160
Speaker 1: about it. What else were you involved? Well? Involved with

1717
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:57,479
Speaker 1: this Elton John project. Um, I did. Elton asked me

1718
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 1: to do a few years ago a cover album covering

1719
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:05,120
Speaker 1: Goodbye ol Bick Road onto the thirtieth verse anniversary of

1720
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: that album, and on that one I got to work

1721
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 1: with Miguel which was great. I did a track with

1722
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: with with Ed Sheeran, which is when Ed and I

1723
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: became friends because I sort of I didn't discover him

1724
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:19,680
Speaker 1: in any sense, but I become a huge fan when

1725
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:21,679
Speaker 1: he first made it in the UK before it happened

1726
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,720
Speaker 1: over a year and got in touch with him and said, look,

1727
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 1: I know a good singer songwriter when I know, and

1728
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:30,599
Speaker 1: you're it, you know you're you're it for this generation.

1729
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:32,760
Speaker 1: I think you're amazing and you're going to be very successful.

1730
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:35,920
Speaker 1: And I got touched him through Elton who whose management

1731
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 1: company manages Ed and so on, so I ended up

1732
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:40,639
Speaker 1: producing a track with him and a lot of other people.

1733
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 1: I love it and I forget it. El Spennyway, well

1734
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 1: that was sorry. That was a Buddy Holly tribute album.

1735
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 1: Monthly up to two But um fall that boy, a

1736
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:53,679
Speaker 1: lot of other great acts and Elton was very happy

1737
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 1: with the results. So he asked me to do another

1738
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 1: album for this fiftieth anniversary of him and Bernie's Overall

1739
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:02,479
Speaker 1: and the Ship, which is I've done a bunch of

1740
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:05,720
Speaker 1: tracks for that. Now I think that's not officially we're

1741
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 1: not officially announcing news on it yet, but lots of

1742
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 1: great people are doing tracks for that. There's a country

1743
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 1: version which I didn't go executive produced, and there's a

1744
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:15,720
Speaker 1: pop version, which I did executive produced, and there's a

1745
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:18,160
Speaker 1: lot of great people. So there are two different albums,

1746
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 1: pop and country, and they're totally different tracks. Yeah, I

1747
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,920
Speaker 1: think there's one song that's on both as op post

1748
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 1: to mut Lang, who made three versions of the same

1749
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: album with and Twain. That's right, yes, so generally does

1750
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 1: not cross over of songs. But also because if you

1751
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 1: look at the entire catalog of cross is a huge

1752
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 1: collection of amazing songs just to choose from. So if

1753
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:39,600
Speaker 1: we look at the you've worked with some of the

1754
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:43,040
Speaker 1: most legendary acts, and I you know, they literally people

1755
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 1: overstate things in this business, but these are literally classic acts.

1756
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 1: Why do you think that acts have a period of

1757
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:54,760
Speaker 1: success that in most cases is not replicated. Is it

1758
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 1: about the businesses about the talent. I'm interested in your theories.

1759
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:02,679
Speaker 1: I think there's something about discovering someone new that cannot

1760
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 1: be equalled, you know. Um so yeah, I've we did

1761
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 1: a lot of acts, would would do whom that would apply?

1762
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean some of them, like Share actually did have

1763
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 1: two legs, you know, miraculously jogs. Although it's always people

1764
01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:18,920
Speaker 1: who don't write their row material to have that second leg,

1765
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 1: it's true, it's true. And Um, I mean Diana Rosso course,

1766
01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 1: I had some very big hits with UM separate from

1767
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:32,840
Speaker 1: and subsequent to the golden age of Dina Rousse and

1768
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 1: the Supremes. So so two careers as possible. But I

1769
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 1: do think that there's something about that period of have

1770
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:43,040
Speaker 1: you heard this guy or this woman? They're amazing? You

1771
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: know they did this that you know, when I did

1772
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 1: at ten Thousand of Maniacs and everyone discovered how great

1773
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 1: Natalie Merchant was. She's still great and people still love

1774
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 1: her and she still sells out all over the place,

1775
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 1: or Stevie Wonder or anybody, you know. Inevitably it settles

1776
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 1: in to period of everyone knows you great, everyone comes

1777
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:06,240
Speaker 1: to see you, but then not as instantly a new record.

1778
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:08,760
Speaker 1: It must be said, you know, because they think that

1779
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 1: was your golden age and it may not be replicated.

1780
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:13,519
Speaker 1: I also have a theory. You know, all the artists

1781
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 1: who have been successful are not fully formed people. They

1782
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 1: have holes in their personalities, identities they need filled through

1783
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 1: the music and the adulation. And I believe they have

1784
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 1: a subconscious idea that when they become successful, their lives

1785
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 1: will work. And then when they ultimately do become successful

1786
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:36,400
Speaker 1: and their lives are not ultimately any different, somehow they

1787
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 1: can't write that material anymore. Now that that suddenly makes sense,

1788
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there is that moment because all the people

1789
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 1: who tell you in advance being rich and successful doesn't

1790
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:51,280
Speaker 1: solve everything exactly, especially when you're an artist. Yes, exactly,

1791
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,519
Speaker 1: but tragically it doesn't. But in other hand, being rich

1792
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 1: and successful is a whole of better than being poor.

1793
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:00,400
Speaker 1: If you're thinking all day about putting food on the table,

1794
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:02,479
Speaker 1: paying your car insurance, it's great to have money in

1795
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:06,640
Speaker 1: your box, exactly exactly. So so I think, um, I mean,

1796
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 1: all the people were talking about been singularly and amazingly successful,

1797
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,400
Speaker 1: and and they all wanted it badly, very even when

1798
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, in James's case, he was disconcerted by it.

1799
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:22,840
Speaker 1: He wasn't expecting it necessarily, you know, because he's quite

1800
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,080
Speaker 1: a shy person. But did he deep down wanted Of

1801
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 1: course he did, you know, of course he did. You

1802
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 1: don't get famous by accident, You really don't. Okay. Another question,

1803
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 1: since you've literally lived through the whole arc, really starting

1804
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,920
Speaker 1: with the Beatles, I'm gonna put a point blank and

1805
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 1: you can wiggle as much as you want. Is today's

1806
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 1: music as good as it was in the classic era? Yes?

1807
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: It is? Yes. Expand upon that, I think it's partly nostalgia.

1808
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 1: I think it's it's uh. If you look at the

1809
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 1: number of brilliant people out there now making remarkable records

1810
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 1: I do, and people say, well, they won't stand out,

1811
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:00,639
Speaker 1: I bet they will. I think it a two examples

1812
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:08,240
Speaker 1: one other Mark Runson. Um, I look at it differently.

1813
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,080
Speaker 1: I mean you especially talked earlier in the podcast about

1814
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 1: living in the UK with one TV channel, limited music whatever.

1815
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 1: In the sixties, the records were all we had, the

1816
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 1: records and the radio. In addition, we had a homogeneous

1817
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:24,559
Speaker 1: society is a strong middle class, okay, and the middle

1818
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:27,720
Speaker 1: class values. There were all these things about saying no

1819
01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 1: whereas today everybody says yes. One thing we do know,

1820
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 1: I would say, is is is as important as music is?

1821
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 1: It does not drive the culture the way it did.

1822
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 1: That's in the sixties and seventies. That's true. Now is

1823
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 1: it you therestion? Is it as good? I realized these

1824
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:49,320
Speaker 1: are different questions. Is it as influentialized, old pervasive and

1825
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:54,160
Speaker 1: as culturally relevant? No? I think you're absolutely right, because

1826
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:56,919
Speaker 1: it's so damn much of it. I mean, it's everywhere,

1827
01:36:57,120 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 1: and there's so much other stuff as well, and it's

1828
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:03,560
Speaker 1: all accessible all the time, um, which is cool, you know,

1829
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 1: But it does mean that it's going to be really

1830
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 1: hard for someone to take over the world the way

1831
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:11,760
Speaker 1: the Beatles did or something. And I don't know if

1832
01:37:11,800 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 1: it's even possible. It seems like it's probably not actually,

1833
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 1: I think though, because uh Adele when during the CD

1834
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:22,880
Speaker 1: era before it faded during one she sold ten times

1835
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 1: the number of CDs of anybody else, literally, yes, And

1836
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 1: so then it was positive by Jason Flamm, Well, is

1837
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,240
Speaker 1: she's selling ten million in an arrow when everybody's selling

1838
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 1: one million in the arrow? When everybody was selling ten million,

1839
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 1: would she have sold a hundred million? So the question

1840
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 1: becomes and what is she selling. She's selling very traditional things, songs, melody,

1841
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:45,519
Speaker 1: good voice, and in a world where it's about winners

1842
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:49,600
Speaker 1: and losers. Could someone be that big again? I mean no,

1843
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 1: because of the of all the diversions, I'm not sure,

1844
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 1: but I think someone can be bigger than we presently have.

1845
01:37:56,400 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 1: But anything else I'm not talking literally today, but generally

1846
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 1: speaking that you're excited about culturally politically. I'm so happy

1847
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:07,880
Speaker 1: that they're making great movies, even though we all thought

1848
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 1: television was taking over. You know, really, so you're more

1849
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 1: of a movie guy than a TV like both No,

1850
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:14,439
Speaker 1: no TV. I love the fact TV has gotten great.

1851
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:16,719
Speaker 1: I mean the fact there's so many great TV series,

1852
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 1: as you've written so convincingly and correctly. I mean, there's

1853
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:22,760
Speaker 1: more great TV than you can possibly watch. Literally, I

1854
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:26,880
Speaker 1: mean like literally you've had it all day. But because

1855
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:29,880
Speaker 1: of that, I thought that might mean the death of movies,

1856
01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:32,200
Speaker 1: And yet this year is three of a really really

1857
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 1: good movies. Well how do you end up seeing these

1858
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 1: movies at home? Where do you go to the theater?

1859
01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 1: I went to the theater to see a few of them,

1860
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean my favorite ones. Uh, Ladybird Florida Project three billboards,

1861
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 1: so Rolos the movie theaters, and they're all great. You know, Well,

1862
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:52,439
Speaker 1: the problem becomes matter. I found a couple of things

1863
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:55,560
Speaker 1: when I go. It's so different from the seventies, you know,

1864
01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:58,720
Speaker 1: in in today, all the actions inside the house was

1865
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:01,679
Speaker 1: supposed to outside. Yes, So in the sixties and seventies

1866
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 1: even eighties, you were in the house, I gotta get

1867
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 1: out of the house and you would go and you

1868
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:07,360
Speaker 1: would go to have the theater. So now you're at

1869
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:09,799
Speaker 1: the house and you're looking, well, the movie is starting

1870
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:12,760
Speaker 1: at you know, seven thirty. I gotta calculate the drive point,

1871
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:14,599
Speaker 1: and I find when I get to the theater, I'm

1872
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 1: too revd up. I can't quite slow down and get

1873
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 1: to the groove. Whereas when I watched something on the

1874
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 1: flat screen, whether it be a movie or television, I'm

1875
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 1: ready to watch then. And I think when we go,

1876
01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 1: you know, I think the movie business is upside down

1877
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 1: on this when we go to day and date at home,

1878
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:33,200
Speaker 1: especially with a lot of excitement. I mean, like the

1879
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:36,519
Speaker 1: new Star Wars movie. I have zero interested in that, okay,

1880
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:38,320
Speaker 1: but if it had been day and date, I want

1881
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 1: to watch it just so I could run around town

1882
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 1: to talk about. And I'm a huge Greta Girl Wig fan, Okay,

1883
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: and certainly if that am in day and date, I

1884
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:51,760
Speaker 1: would have watched it first day, okay, But planning out

1885
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:54,800
Speaker 1: the theater, etcetera, etcetera, it may happen. I mean, I

1886
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 1: don't know, especially as everyone's home set up gets bedroom better.

1887
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 1: I mean this new crazy Samsung TV called The Wall,

1888
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 1: and I saw that, you know the interested Yes, yeah,

1889
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:08,559
Speaker 1: I mean wow, maybe maybe we'll never leave the house.

1890
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, let's hope we do. But we

1891
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:15,479
Speaker 1: do movies, great television and the Again, I mean, nobody says, ah,

1892
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 1: the movie directs is as good as they used to

1893
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:19,280
Speaker 1: because clearly there are, you know. But the only thing

1894
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:21,559
Speaker 1: is is we're in a different era, both in music

1895
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:25,519
Speaker 1: and movies. It's not the tour era. I certainly remember

1896
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 1: you talk about the era when you made Sweet Baby, James,

1897
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:32,040
Speaker 1: the deal with Warner Brothers would be you make the record,

1898
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 1: you can, they put it out with no input whatever.

1899
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:38,320
Speaker 1: That is not the world today. The same thing with movies,

1900
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, do they would tell Delta what to do?

1901
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:43,360
Speaker 1: I bet they don't write what about your I mean,

1902
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:45,040
Speaker 1: they don't tell him what to do do they or

1903
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:48,640
Speaker 1: do they? You know, all those deals are unique, and

1904
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 1: if you get enough power, if the movie is uncommercial,

1905
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:54,920
Speaker 1: they always have something in the contract unless you find

1906
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 1: the money yourself. It's like, you know, what, do you

1907
01:40:57,120 --> 01:40:59,720
Speaker 1: Allen find some money himself. But these other people, I've

1908
01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:02,599
Speaker 1: always heard different stories. But I mean, I know Terry

1909
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 1: Gilliams rand of mine and he's notoriously exactly gotten that

1910
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 1: battled multiple tact. But it's about I am very much

1911
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:13,720
Speaker 1: about the pure expression of the artists. And even though

1912
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 1: we live in this collaborative era, I believe when it's singular,

1913
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 1: that's one of the great things about music in that

1914
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 1: you get the direct vision. That's what makes it more

1915
01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 1: powerful to me than movies, because you get the collaborative

1916
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 1: it's not quite as genuine. Frequently I think I do

1917
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:30,160
Speaker 1: miss that here. I mean, if you work on the

1918
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:32,840
Speaker 1: record now, you you definitely expected to be a and

1919
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,640
Speaker 1: our involvement, and even if there isn't during you know

1920
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 1: that will be as dons is delivered the single or

1921
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And as they say. It's one

1922
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 1: thing to say where's the single, which one could say, okay,

1923
01:41:44,160 --> 01:41:47,040
Speaker 1: you need a commercial track, but when they start weighing

1924
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:49,880
Speaker 1: in on this other stuff. Yeah, it makes you crazy

1925
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:52,960
Speaker 1: because they don't really know or the filtration system is

1926
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:56,560
Speaker 1: so different, and there's such a separation between artists and

1927
01:41:56,640 --> 01:41:59,200
Speaker 1: business people. This is another thing that bothers me today

1928
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 1: because too many people will want to be business people.

1929
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:04,439
Speaker 1: That's a completely different mentality. Yes, it is. No, you're right,

1930
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 1: I mean that is scary um, you know. And and

1931
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 1: they do it. I mean, I know they didn't even

1932
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:13,240
Speaker 1: do it, you know. I mean, it's just's astonish you

1933
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 1: when you think about it. If anyone's proved his ability

1934
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 1: to do it completely on his own and makes and

1935
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:20,720
Speaker 1: not only that, not only for himself, writing songs for

1936
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:23,639
Speaker 1: other I mean, the thing is unbelievable. Conventionally, go back

1937
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 1: to the uh the world of England. They would build

1938
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 1: people up to tear them down. Yes, the fact that

1939
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 1: Ed Sharon is not nominated for Album of the Year,

1940
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 1: it's criminal. It's I don't think the Grammys have any value.

1941
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:38,920
Speaker 1: But if you want any gravitas, they dragged the cool

1942
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:42,400
Speaker 1: aid of the reaction, whereas this guy has literally the

1943
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:45,880
Speaker 1: biggest song of the year. Yeah it's either that or Posito. No,

1944
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:53,760
Speaker 1: but literally is the biggest track on Spotify. Still in

1945
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:56,519
Speaker 1: an arrow, when there's so much song of the record,

1946
01:42:56,560 --> 01:42:59,960
Speaker 1: of the album of the it's the lemount of especial.

1947
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:01,960
Speaker 1: Evil three is completely but he is. Stuff will be

1948
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,040
Speaker 1: remembered when the Lord album has already been forgotten. But

1949
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:07,880
Speaker 1: in an arrow where everything happens at home. I want

1950
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:10,360
Speaker 1: to thank you for coming here to Venice being on

1951
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 1: the podcast. It was great. We could go off forever,

1952
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:14,720
Speaker 1: but we gotta let our audience go and you go.

1953
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:17,920
Speaker 1: Thanks again, they have Peter Rasher for appearing here on

1954
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:20,639
Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets podcast. Until next time, my plice

1955
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 1: to thank you Bob here. I want to thank everyone

1956
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,560
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode. Please subscribe to the podcast,

1957
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:34,880
Speaker 1: leave comments and tell your friends we have some great

1958
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:38,560
Speaker 1: guests lined up. No topic is off limits. Go to

1959
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 1: left sets dot com and thanks as always for listening

1960
01:43:41,920 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 1: until next week. Don't know exactly