1 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: It's November twenty ninth, nineteen sixty three, seven days after 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: the assassination of President Kennedy. The White House is in chaos. 3 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: Lyndon Johnson is now president, having been sworn in on 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: Air Force one while it was still on the ground 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: at Dallas Love Field. 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: That moment's become memorialized in an iconic photo that shows 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: Jackie Kennedy standing at his side with the blood of 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: her dead husband splattered on her pink suit. 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: A week into his job, President Johnson is sitting behind 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: the desk in the Oval Office. He's fielding calls from 11 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: world leaders who want to know what's going on. He's 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: holding the hands of politicians, assuring everyone that it will 13 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: not throw off the global balance of power, that World 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: War III is not imminent. The country needs to know 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: that they're in safe hands. 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 2: They need answers. The man suspected of murdering the president 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: has just been murdered too. 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: On live TV, by a two bit nightclub owner named 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: Jack Ruby. Everyone wants to know who is responsible for 20 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: all this. President Johnson is concerned about the attention that 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: a public investigation would bring. He gets a call from 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: the head of the FBI, J Edgar Hoover, who will 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: be leading the initial investigation. Hoover wants to keep it contained. 24 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: Of course, we're saying that it would be bad to 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: have a rash of investigations, but that's exactly what started 26 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: to happen. There were rumblings in the House and Senate 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: about forming committees to expand on the FBI's investigation. Johnson 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: wants to shut it down. 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 3: Tehouse to go ahead with an investigation. 30 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 4: Yes, a bunch of televisions going, and I ought they 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 4: see that to be a three ring circuit. 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: So Rob, what's at stake here? 33 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: Well, if it's discovered that Kennedy's assassination was somehow connected 34 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: to the Soviets or the Cubans, it could trigger a 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: nuclear holocaust. Another reason they want to keep a tight 36 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: lid on the investigation is because they're afraid that a 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: broad investigation would expose the CIA and the FBI. In 38 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: another attempt to limit the investigation, this document I'm holding 39 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: is considered by many to be a smoking gun. I'm 40 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: going to let Dick Russell explain. 41 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 5: This memo was hidden from the public for a decade 42 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 5: after the assassination. It's referred to as the Katzenbach Memo. 43 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 5: Nicholas Katzenbach was the Deputy Attorney General. He wrote the 44 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 5: memo to Hoover just a few days after the murder. 45 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: So here's what the document says, quote, the public must 46 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin, that he did 47 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: not have confederates who are still at large, and that 48 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: the evidence was such that he would have been convicted 49 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: at trial. Speculation about Oswald's motivation ought to be cut off. 50 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: It says that the goal of the investigation is to 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: convince people of a specific, predetermined result. Two days after 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: the assassination. These are marching orders from the official investigation 53 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: into the assassination of President Kennedy. If Oswald had been 54 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: allowed to stand trial, his lawyers would have had a 55 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: field day with a statement like that, this was not 56 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: an investigation, It was a fate, a compleat. 57 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: This is who killed JFK. Sixty years later, What can 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history? 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: Why does it still matter today? I'm your host, Solidad O'Brien. 60 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: To recap JFK reputedly threatens to splinter the CIA into 61 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: a thousand pieces, then fires Dulles and his top two lieutenants. 62 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: He completely goes around the military industrial complex to avoid 63 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: World War three during the Cuban missile crisis, and then 64 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: he starts a back channel with Khrushchev and Fidel Castro. 65 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: Then at American University, he publicly proclaims that he wants 66 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: to forge a new path towards peaceful coexistence. He's alienating 67 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: a lot of incredibly powerful and determined people. 68 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,679 Speaker 2: And then he's murdered. 69 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 6: And then he's murdered. 70 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: We're deep into the murder mystery. And now rob has 71 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: just handed me this letter where j Edgar Hoover, the 72 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: head of the FBI, is basically advising that they make 73 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: sure to pinned it all on Oswald. 74 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: Of course, President Johnson sent a completely different message to 75 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: the country. 76 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 5: He put out an executive order in nineteen sixty three 77 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 5: that said the Commission would quote evaluate all the facts 78 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 5: and circumstances surrounding such assassination. President Johnson called on Earl Warren, 79 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 5: the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, to head up 80 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 5: the investigation. Warren initially said no, but Johnson then bullied 81 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 5: him into it, telling him the nuclear war was hanging 82 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 5: in the balance Warren eventually said yes. Years later he 83 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 5: said he regretted it. 84 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: President Johnson and j Edgar Hoover came up with a 85 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: strategy on how to handle the investigation. 86 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 6: Here's President Johnson. 87 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 3: The only way would stop on it put somebody into it, 88 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 3: pretty good on. 89 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 4: It, that I could select out of the government. 90 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: He's saying, the only way to stop them is to 91 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: put somebody that's pretty good on it that I can 92 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: select out of the government. 93 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 6: What do you think about Alec dun I think he 94 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 6: would be a good. 95 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: Man, Johnson suggests Alan Dulles. Hoover says he'd be a 96 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: good man. They figure they can make it work for 97 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: them if they appoint someone they can trust. 98 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: He suggested. Alan Dulls the man Kennedy fired after the 99 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: Bay of Pigs. He's known as the godfather of the CIA. 100 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 7: Alan Dellson's role on the Warren Commission was not to 101 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 7: find the truth, was to cover up the truth. 102 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: That's David Talbot. Rob says that if we're going to 103 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 2: talk about Alan Dallas, you have to speak to David Talbot. 104 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: He's the founder of Salon magazine. He literally wrote the 105 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: book on Dalles. It's called The Devil's chessboard. 106 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: Do you think that it's an accident that Alan Dulles 107 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: was put in charge of being the gatekeeper to the 108 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: Warren Commission. 109 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 7: No, I believe that he lawed to be put on 110 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 7: that commission. There is no better figure, from a cover 111 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 7: up point of view, to have on that commission. 112 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 6: The now a Dalls. 113 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 7: He leaks up to the press, to the CIA. He 114 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 7: essentially led them down. The Primrose Path said that Lee 115 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 7: Harvey Oswold act alone. 116 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: So after the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy fires him, why 117 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: is he on the commission? 118 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 7: That what was surprising there was no discussion in the media. 119 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 7: There's no controversy around the appointment. The media herald of 120 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 7: Dallen Dalls as a very respected figure above politics. Nothing 121 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 7: could be further from the truth. 122 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 2: This was a moment in history when the general public 123 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: didn't question the government in the same way we do today. 124 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty four, seventy seven percent of Americans said 125 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: they trusted the government to quote do the right thing. 126 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three that numbers sixteen percent. American exceptionalism 127 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: was in full force, and the media was not intent 128 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: on bringing that down. And you can't help, but wonder 129 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: what they could have uncovered if they'd just been looking. 130 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: So the Warrant Commission publishes its report in nineteen sixty four, 131 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: and they do essentially what they set out to do. 132 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: They pinned all on Oswald case closed. There were a 133 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: few journalists who started poking around at the Warren Report 134 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: just because they thought it was odd, but some came 135 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: into it accidentally, like Gayton Phonsie. 136 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: There's quite a bit about Fonsie in the archives, thanks 137 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: in part to his wife Marie, who continues to tell 138 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 2: his story today. In the nineteen sixties, Gaydon Fonsie was 139 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 2: an investigative journalist for Philadelphia Magazine. Phonsie, like most Americans, 140 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: was shocked and saddened the loss of Kennedy, but it 141 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: wasn't something that was on his radar as a journalist. 142 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: A year after the report was published, Arl Inspector, who 143 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: had made a name for himself as a member of 144 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: the Warren Commission, returned to Philadelphia. He ran for District 145 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: attorney and he won, and Phonsie thought it would be 146 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: a good piece to be written Amonspector. Returning home after 147 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: his time on the Warren Commission, Arl Inspector is largely 148 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: known for creating something called the single bullet theory. 149 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 8: Yeah, I know all about the single bullet theory, right, 150 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 8: and we will dig into the science and the forensics 151 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 8: of that later on, But for now, all you need 152 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 8: to know is that the single bullet theory is the 153 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 8: backbone of the Warren Commission report. 154 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: Without the single bullet theory, you cannot pin the crime 155 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: on Oswald alone. Now, just to give you an idea 156 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: of what this is, the Commission made a contention that 157 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: only three shots were fired. The first one missed. That 158 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: left two shots hitting President Kennedy. The third shot was 159 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: the fatal shot. 160 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 6: To his head. 161 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: The second shot that was the single bullet. And because 162 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: Governor Connolly, who was sitting in front of Kennedy, was 163 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: also shot, that single bullet had to travel through Kennedy's neck, 164 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: then hit Connelly in the back, go through to his wrist, 165 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: and wind up in his thigh. 166 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 5: So Gayton Fonsie is preparing for his interview, he comes 167 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 5: across Spector's single bullet theory. He starts looking into it 168 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 5: and as you can imagine, he finds several discrepancies and 169 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 5: then a confront Spector in a series of interviews. 170 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 2: The interviews are hard to follow without getting too deep 171 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: into the weeds of the single bullet theory, but just 172 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 2: know this. When Phonsie presses Specter about whether he factored 173 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: eyewitness accounts into the construction of his theory, Specter responded 174 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: by saying, quote, that's a good question. You're the first 175 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: person to ask me that question, and I have to 176 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 2: think about it for a minute. Phonsie publishes his article 177 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: in Greater Philadelphia Magazine on August first, nineteen sixty six. 178 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 5: He wrote, quote, Arlen Spector knows it is difficult to 179 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 5: believe some of the fundamental conclusions of the war On 180 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 5: Commission report. Well, it came out years later. At Specter, 181 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 5: the man responsible for investigating the source and path of 182 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 5: the bullets, did not directly speak to the Secret Service 183 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 5: agents riding in the car behind Kennedy, who had a 184 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 5: clear view of the shots, and he ignored the statements 185 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 5: of several eye witnesses that he never looked at photos 186 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 5: of the autopsy or woods. 187 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,359 Speaker 6: He only looked at sketches. 188 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: And then he pieced his incomplete evidence together by manipulating 189 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: the path of one single bullet into something that made 190 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: absolutely no sense. The things he ignored or twisted to 191 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: make his theory work is legendary. But it wasn't just Specter. 192 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 5: The whole investigation was a mess. They didn't interview Jack 193 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 5: Ruby for nearly a year. Ruby even said that he 194 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 5: would tell them everything if they moved him from Dallas 195 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 5: to Washington, d C. 196 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 6: And they declined. 197 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 5: They also didn't interview JFK's personal doctor, who was with 198 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 5: Kennedy within minutes of him arriving at Parkland Hospital, and 199 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 5: then when a witness approached with new information two months 200 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 5: before they were supposed to publish, General Counsel Jay Lee 201 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 5: Rankin said quote, at this stage, we are supposed to 202 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 5: be closing doors, not opening them. A Secret Service agent 203 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 5: even offered a lead, and then that agent was thrown 204 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 5: in jail. Investigators uncovered the Dulles had this habit of 205 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 5: briefing the members of the Warren Commission on what questions 206 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 5: to ask the CIA witnesses, and he would brief the 207 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 5: CIA witnesses and tell them what questions were coming and 208 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 5: what to say. John mccoon, who was director of the 209 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 5: CIA at the time, even admitted that he lied to 210 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 5: protect the agency during the Warren Commission's investigation. 211 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: In twenty fifteen, Politico reported that a declassified CIA report 212 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: showed that mcohne and other senior CIA officials were quote 213 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: complicit in keeping quote incendiary information from the Warren Commission. 214 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: The report says that macoone was at the heart of 215 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: a quote benign cover up at the spy agency. Didn't 216 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: any of these things come out? 217 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 6: They almost did. 218 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 5: A few weeks before the Warren Commission report came out, 219 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 5: one of the staffers wrote a memo to the lead investigator. 220 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 5: The author was Wesley Leebler, and his memo was twenty 221 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 5: six pages long. It detailed the reasons he was uncomfortable 222 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 5: with the way evidence was being used selectively to make 223 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 5: sure Oswald was proven guilty. Well, the lead investigator refuse 224 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 5: to accept the memo. Well, clearly, this was not a 225 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 5: serious investigation. And in the end they found out exactly 226 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 5: what they wanted to find out, and they thought that 227 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 5: the public was just going to buy it, that we 228 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 5: would just accept the report because it was from people 229 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 5: like Warren and Dulles, and that we would just move 230 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 5: on with our lives. 231 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: When the Warren report came out, that was fall of 232 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four, polls showed that fifty six percent of 233 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: Americans agreed with that lone gunman theory, and then only 234 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: two years later a new poll showed that that number 235 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: dropped a thirty six percent, So only a third of 236 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: Americans believed that Oswald acted alone. That's a huge drop 237 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: in a very short period of time. 238 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that doesn't surprise me. By then, the report 239 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: was met with a lot of scrutiny. People started to 240 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: talk about it publicly. In nineteen sixty six, Mark Lane 241 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: published his book Rush to Judgment, and he was critiquing 242 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: the Warren Commission. It kicks started public suspicion, which bubbled 243 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: beneath the surface for ten years until finally in nineteen 244 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: seventy five, the story broke through. In nineteen seventy five, 245 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: the Church Committee, headed up by Idaho Senator Frank Church, 246 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: had just released a trove of documents exposing the CIA 247 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: and other government officials of some very horrific abuses of 248 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: power throughout the sixties. 249 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 9: The Church Committee hearings of nineteen seventy five revealed that 250 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 9: there were at least three foreign assassination operations mounted by 251 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 9: CIA officials in the nineteen sixties against the leaders of Cuba, 252 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 9: the Dominican Republican, the CONGO. 253 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: That's Jefferson Morley again, former Washington Post reporter and creator 254 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: of jfkfax dot org. 255 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 9: So the exists of an organized CIA capacity for political 256 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 9: assassinations was revealed and convincingly, without any doubt, well documented. 257 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 9: So that was the first time that the CIA was 258 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 9: really called to account for these types of activities. It 259 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 9: was the first time that the public ever knew that 260 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 9: that's what the CIA was doing. 261 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: And then on March fifth, nineteen seventy five, thanks to 262 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: a stand up comedian who appeared on an evening talk show, 263 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: everything changed. 264 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 7: How Are You? 265 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 10: Dick Gregory is one of America's foremost comedians. His comedy 266 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 10: doesn't just make people laugh, it makes them think as well. 267 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 6: Please welcome Dick Gregory. 268 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, Heraldo Rivera hosted a monthly show 269 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: on ABC called good Night America. 270 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 10: Now, if you can remember back and be honest to 271 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 10: when all these theories about conspiracies first came out in 272 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 10: the mid sixties, then we treated the researchers and the 273 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 10: people doing this investigation is kind of paranoid coups. I mean, 274 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 10: let's be honest, that's. 275 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 6: The way it was. But now we've all lived through the. 276 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 10: Pentagon papers, Watergate, dirty tricks, and even the allegations. And 277 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 10: I stressed the point that there are only allegations that 278 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 10: the CIA and the FBI institutions that are so solid 279 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 10: in American history, in the fabric of American society, have 280 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 10: engaged in illegal operations against American citizens. Well, because of 281 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 10: all that, I think that most people are now more 282 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 10: willing to listen to opposing points of view. And I 283 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 10: think one thing is certain. There are just too many 284 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 10: loose ends. John Kennedy was murdered, and we at least 285 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 10: owe him the duty of doing everything possible to find 286 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 10: out who all was involved. Now, possibly, just possibly, the 287 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 10: Warrant Commission was right, but what if it wasn't. 288 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 11: As I started meeting various people that was looking for 289 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 11: something else, I found out that there was a whole 290 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 11: like a cult out here that didn't believe it. But 291 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 11: we just kept looking and kept waiting for the press. 292 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: That's comedian Dick Gregory. He was also suspicious of the 293 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: Warren Report, so in the early seventies he started going 294 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: to these gatherings kind of like conferences where other doubters 295 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: brought all their independent research in an attempt to piece 296 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: it all together. In nineteen seventy five, at one of 297 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: these early conferences, Dick Gregory meets a young guy named 298 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: Robert Groden. Groden is sitting on something incredible. He's got 299 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: an original copy of the Subruder film. 300 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 2: The Zubruder film is famously an eight millimeter film shot 301 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: by a local dressmaker named Abraham Zabruder. He just happened 302 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 2: to be set up at Dealey Plaza with his camera 303 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 2: and captured the whole thing on film. 304 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 5: In the film, you see everything that happens, from when 305 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 5: the motorcade turns onto Elm Street to the President getting shot, 306 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 5: and then the car speating away down the underpass. There 307 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 5: were a few other people filming that day, but nobody 308 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 5: captured it quite as clearly as Zapruter. The Secret Service 309 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 5: promised Suppruter that the film would only be used for 310 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 5: an official investigation. It was quickly taken to a Kodak 311 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 5: film processing facility in Dallas, where it was developed and 312 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 5: three copies were made. Two of the copies were handed 313 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 5: off to the Secret Service and sent to Washington. The 314 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 5: third copy of the film was given back to Zapruter. 315 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 2: The media caught wind and immediately there was a bidding 316 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: war for the rights to Zubruder's film. He eventually sold 317 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: it to Life Magazine for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, 318 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: a lot of money at the time. Life printed several 319 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 2: still frames in their magazine, and after the Warren Commission 320 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: used the film for their investigation, they also published black 321 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 2: and white stills, but the moving image was never shared 322 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 2: with the public. 323 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: Then, one day Life Magazine reached out to a film 324 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: lab for a standard contract job. 325 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 12: We blew up eight millimeter home movies up to thirty 326 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 12: five millimeters so that we had a professional grade that 327 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 12: could be transferred to final print, and nobody else did 328 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 12: the work we did. Five Magazine found out about it, 329 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 12: and they wanted to see if the Zabruder film would 330 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 12: hold a resolution and clarity blowing up from eight to 331 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 12: thirty five. 332 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: That's Robert Groden at the time in nineteen seventy one. 333 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: He was a twenty six year old staff technician in 334 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: the film lab. That day the Zabruder film landed on 335 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 2: his desk. 336 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 12: Well, they brought it to us. We did it and 337 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 12: sufficed to say an extra copy was made they didn't 338 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 12: know about. 339 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: Roden was shot by what he saw, and he made 340 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: his own personal copy of the Zapruder film. 341 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 12: That's what I released on the TV show Good Night 342 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 12: America back in nineteen seventy five. 343 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 10: And I want to introduce another guest. We have Robert Groden, 344 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 10: who was celebrating his eighteenth birthday on the twenty second 345 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 10: of November in nineteen sixty three. Robert, welcome, and I 346 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 10: wish you could set up the Zapruta film a bit 347 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 10: for us, and we'll get right into it. 348 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 6: Okay. 349 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 13: Abraham Supruter was a Dallas dress manufacturer and it was 350 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 13: pure accident that he brought the camera with him that day. 351 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 13: He got what his frame for frame, the most valuable 352 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 13: historical document of all time. 353 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 12: I was scared of him, out of my wits because 354 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 12: I wasn't supposed to have the film in the first place. 355 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 6: I was afraid to release it. 356 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: You became a whistleblower. 357 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 6: Really, yeah, that's exactly what I was. 358 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 10: I'm telling you right straight out that if you are 359 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 10: at all sensitive, if you're at all queasy, then don't 360 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 10: watch this film. It's the execution of President Kennedy. Okay, 361 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 10: so the cars are coming along now into d Lee Plaza. 362 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 6: He is shot. Then Governor Connolly is shot. 363 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 13: Now Jackie doesn't realize what's happened yet, she goes to 364 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 13: his aid. 365 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: And now that's a live audience reacting to the fatal shot. 366 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 6: That's the shot that blew up his head. That's an 367 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 6: Austin horrifying thing I've ever seen. 368 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 13: Now, the Warree Commission said that all of the shots 369 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 13: were fired from behind by Lee Harvey Oswald alone assassin 370 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 13: firing out the president. And as you could see clearly, 371 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 13: the head is thrown violently backwards, completely consistent with the 372 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 13: shot from the front. 373 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: The President's head goes back and to the left. There 374 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: is no way that could happen if he was shot 375 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: from behind. 376 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 2: And this is the very first time the American public 377 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 2: is seeing this footage correct. 378 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: And then Dick Gregory closes the show with an incredible 379 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: call to action. 380 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 11: I'm outraised over the fact that the American press should 381 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 11: be doing what we are doing today. I would like 382 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 11: to see the American press, even the press that say 383 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 11: everything we have is not true, to come out and 384 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 11: do the research and let the American people know. 385 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 4: Was it a trick? 386 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 11: Was it a conspiracy? And let's open up the Warren report, 387 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 11: let's talk about a new investigation. If we don't, I 388 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 11: think this country's going to be in a lot of trouble. 389 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 6: All right. 390 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: And amazingly, that's exactly what happened. In nineteen seventy six, 391 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: after the Zappruder film aired on Good Night America, a 392 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: new congressional committee, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, officially 393 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: reopened the case. 394 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 2: Gaydon Phonsie was appointed to the committee. You'll remember him 395 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: as the journalist who questioned Specter on the single bullet theory. 396 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: The commission also appointed Robert Grodin to the investigation team. 397 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 6: I was more than half mean to do it. I 398 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 6: was very proud to be able to do it. And 399 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 6: there's a history to the House Committee, and. 400 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: That history starts with a man named Richard Sprague. 401 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 14: Richard Sprague was the original chief counsel, and he wanted 402 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 14: to treat the assassination conspiracy as an unsolved murder. He 403 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 14: was just started from not assuming I was was waskilled, 404 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 14: but going from beginning to end with what actually did exist. 405 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: Dick Russell interviewed Richard Sprague in nineteen seventy eight, did. 406 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 15: You ever have the feeling that what you were dealing 407 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 15: with as far as investigating the assassination of President Kennedy 408 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 15: went beyond the assassination itself and into very sensitive areas 409 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 15: of intelligent skit In what way. 410 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 4: I was raising questions concerning the connections of any between 411 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 4: Oswood and the CIA. I was raising questions as to 412 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 4: whether the information at the CIA had presented the fact 413 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 4: was reliable information. Making it clear at this same time 414 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 4: that I would not sign any of the agreements with 415 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 4: the CIA, FBI, Justice Department that other committees had. 416 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 5: Sawn Sprague not only had to sign a non disclosure agreement, 417 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 5: but he also had to give some control of his 418 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 5: investigation over to the CIA and FBI. 419 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 4: I took the view that for this to be a thorough, 420 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 4: hard hitting, impartial investigation, they could not control the staff. Secondly, 421 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 4: they cannot control that which gets disclosed. The purpose of 422 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 4: the investigation is ultimate disclosure. So I was refusing to 423 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 4: sign that kind of agreement. 424 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 5: And so they fired Sprague because he wouldn't let the 425 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 5: CIA and FBI determine what he was able to see 426 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 5: and who he was able to talk to. 427 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: I am absolutely convinced that the Congress of the United 428 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 3: States has not the slightest interest in a thorough, in 429 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 3: depth investigation into the assassination of President. 430 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 5: That wasn't the end of the HSCA. The head of 431 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 5: the committee called someone else to take Sprague's place, a 432 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 5: man named Robert Blakey. 433 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 16: He said he word in a professional investigation. I said, 434 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 16: I would give him one. 435 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: Blakey was an attorney and law professor who'd got national 436 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 2: attention for his work on what's known as the Rico Laws, 437 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 2: which targeted organized crime in the nineteen seventies. 438 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 6: And that is important here. 439 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: There was a clear relationship between the mafia and the 440 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: CIA in the sixties. Organized crime was tree did like 441 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: another weapon in the CIA's arsenal. 442 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: It's interesting because when you search the Warren Report for 443 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 2: the terms mafia or organized crime, they're rarely mentioned, and 444 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 2: when they are it's just to say, yeah, they were around, 445 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: but they weren't responsible for any part of the murder. 446 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 16: We called in the senior people from the war In 447 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 16: Commission and asked them whether the CIA mafia plots were 448 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 16: ever revealed to them, and they said no. In fact, 449 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 16: it was withheld from them and whether the presence of 450 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 16: that would have changed the nature of their investigation. 451 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 6: And they said, yes, there you go. 452 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 16: What we did is we set up before again an 453 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 16: investigation that was open to a single assassin and was 454 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 16: also open to a conspiracy, and we went down the 455 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 16: usual suspects. 456 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 6: Did the Russians do it, Did the Cubans do it? 457 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 16: Did a particular agency of the United States do it? 458 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: Clearly, this is a much different approach than the Warrant Commission. 459 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 16: THEIRS was a shooter investigation. Ours was a full investigation. 460 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 16: We entered into formal agreements as to how we would 461 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 16: have access to the most secret materials, including the super secrets, 462 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 16: from both the FBI and the CIA. I dealt with 463 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 16: the director of the FBI and the admiral that was 464 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 16: running the CIA, and we got a statement from them 465 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 16: both saying, you were being interviewed by a legitimate congressional committee. 466 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 16: You were not authorized to lie to these people to 467 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 16: save sensitive sources and methods. In other words, give it up. 468 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: They were given a directive that said you're not allowed 469 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: to lie to protect classified information. You must tell the truth. 470 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: And that directive was written out in a document when. 471 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 16: We interviewed FBI or CIA people. We showed them these documents. 472 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 6: And do you think they lived up to that agreement? 473 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 17: I did until the joann Edes scandal broke. I uncovered 474 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 17: this story in two thousand and one. 475 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 2: That's Jefferson Morley again, creator of jfkfax dot org. 476 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 9: The CIA sent a man named George Joannedes to serve 477 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 9: as the liaison to the House slect Committee on Assassinations. 478 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 9: And a liaison position in this type of investigation, your 479 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 9: job is to help the investigators get access to executive 480 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 9: branch material. 481 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 16: Joe Needs had supervision over the relationship between the CIA 482 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 16: and the group. 483 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: Guess what the CIA failed to tell Blakey about joann 484 00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: Edes That he was. 485 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 16: He's a supervisor of the relationship between the agency and 486 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 16: in particular group of Cubans. 487 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: In his self published two thousand and one expose, Morley 488 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: uncovered that during the Kennedy administration, George Joanedes was chief 489 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: of the Psychological Warfare branch of the CIA's Cuban Exile 490 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 2: group in Miami. 491 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: The anti Castro exiles were plotting covert ways to remove 492 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: Castro from power. What's important to understand here is that 493 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: joann Edes was supporting and financing this group, and now 494 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: this guy is the CIA laison to the House Committee. 495 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 9: Even when he was asked direct questions by the HSCA 496 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 9: Council Bob Blakey and by the HSCA investigators. They asked 497 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 9: him who was in charge of this Cuban student director 498 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 9: in nineteen sixty three, and Joanniti said he didn't know. 499 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 9: He in fact, was the answer to their question. They 500 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 9: were looking at the answer to their question in the face. 501 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: Morley published his expose about Joe and Edies in two 502 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: thousand and one, and when Blakey read it, he was shocked. 503 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 16: If I had known that he was a supervisor of 504 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 16: the relationship between the agency and a particular roupe of Cubans, 505 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 16: I would have put him into hearings, and I would 506 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 16: have had him under oath, and I would not have 507 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 16: hired him as a facilitator. I would have subpoened him 508 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 16: as a witness. 509 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 5: Blakey and the rest of the HSCA published their report 510 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 5: in January of nineteen seventy nine, completely oblivious at that 511 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 5: time to how Joe and Edes obstructed the investigation. 512 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: So this is where they put out their vague statement 513 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: that deemed that President Kennedy was killed as a result 514 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: of a quote conspiracy. They disagreed with the Warren Report, 515 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: which fifteen years early. Yer said Oswald acted alone. Here's 516 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 2: exactly what they say, quote President John F. Kennedy was 517 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 2: probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee 518 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: is unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent 519 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: of the conspiracy. 520 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: They also said that the FBI and the CIA were 521 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 1: definitely not involved. So they made some progress. They followed Leeds. 522 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: The Warrent Commission didn't. But Joe and Needes was basically 523 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,959 Speaker 1: a goalie protecting the CIA. 524 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: Were you mad? 525 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 6: Furious? He was the. 526 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: Perfect person to derail the committee, and when you drilled 527 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: down on his backstory, you're going to find a big 528 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: clue in this case, Dick, can you explain. 529 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 5: As we mentioned, Joan Needes was the head of the 530 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 5: CIA program they supported a group of anti Castro Cuban exiles. Well, 531 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 5: there were a couple of officers who managed that group, 532 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 5: and it turns out in the months leading up to 533 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 5: the assassination those CIA officers, the same ones established contact 534 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,959 Speaker 5: with an ex marine in New Orleans, a guy who 535 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: didn't know it yet, but his days would be numbered. 536 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: The contact they made, you guessed it Lee Harvey Oswald. 537 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 6: So let's sum it up. 538 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: A CIA group led by George Joanedes establishes contact with 539 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: Oswald weeks before the President's murder. Then the head of 540 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: that group goes on to block the House Select Committee 541 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: on Assassinations, the very group that was tasked with revisiting 542 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: the warr report which penned it all on Oswald. 543 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so I am fully open to hear what you 544 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 2: think happened on that day. Where does this investigation start? 545 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: At the scene of the crime, the bullets, the wounds, 546 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: the forensic evidence will show a clear path towards conspiracy. 547 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: Next episode on Who Killed JFK? 548 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 9: Missus Kennedy stop right behind where she had been sitting, 549 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 9: there was a pristine board. 550 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 2: We tackled the infamous single bullet theory through the eyes 551 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 2: of a secret Service agent who was there. 552 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 6: When I saw a picture of the baller. My immediate reaction, Hey, 553 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 6: that's my ball. 554 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: And then it gets really unhinged. 555 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 14: The government had a serious problem, and the problem was 556 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 14: called The Dallas Doctor. 557 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: Who Killed JFK? Is hosted by Rob Reiner and me 558 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 2: Solidad O'Brien and Our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, 559 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman, and Me Solidad O'Brien. 560 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 2: Our writer is David Hoffman, with research by Dick Russell. 561 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 2: Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pigner. Our 562 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: senior producer is Julie Pineto. 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