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Speaker 1: I owe you the biggest apology. I was so unbelievably

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Speaker 1: condescending to you that day. I'm sure of it. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that I don't remember exactly you told me. You

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Speaker 1: sold me. I just shot a pilot. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: good for you, we just met. Oh good for congratulations. Man.

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Speaker 1: What's the pilot? It's the American version of the Office

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Speaker 1: And I literally went, oh, you poor thing. The look

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Speaker 1: at my face is like, you dumb sat I am

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Speaker 1: Kevin Rom, and I am proud to say that I

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Speaker 1: am the second lead of the acclaimed short film moose Cock.

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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to Yes Off the Beat.

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Speaker 1: I am, as always your host Brian baum Gartner, and

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Speaker 1: today's episode, well, I am very excited to welcome the

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Speaker 1: amazing Kevin Rom into the studio. Kevin has been and

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Speaker 1: on some of the biggest shows of all time, from

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Speaker 1: Desperate Housewives to Mad Men to most recently, Madam's Secretary

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Speaker 1: and man does Kevin have range? On Desperate Housewives, he

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Speaker 1: played Lee McDermott for over sixty episodes and he got

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Speaker 1: in touch with his sillier side his words. On mad Men,

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Speaker 1: of course, he played Ted chaw a k A rival

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Speaker 1: to the one and only Don Draper. Truly, guys, Kevin

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Speaker 1: is he is one of the best in the business,

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Speaker 1: and so today I'm excited to deep dive into his career,

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Speaker 1: from his lgbt Q representation on Desperate Housewives to what

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Speaker 1: it means to be part of mad Men's lasting legacy,

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Speaker 1: and of course, as you heard in his open, we

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Speaker 1: will also talk about his biggest accomplishment to date, working

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Speaker 1: with me, Brian and Bam Gartner for our acclaimed short

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Speaker 1: film Moosecock. Yes you did hear that right, Moosecock? I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, with all the moose Cock swirling in your brains,

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Speaker 1: the suspense must be killing you. So here he is now,

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Speaker 1: Kevin rom Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble and

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Speaker 1: Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month left over

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Speaker 1: from the Nabby people. What's up, Brian? How you doing, buddy, Kevin?

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see you. What is going on,

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Speaker 1: my friend? It's a lot and nothing and a lot,

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Speaker 1: and it's been forever. It has been forever. It's great

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Speaker 1: to see you. I am delighted every time I see

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Speaker 1: you on TV. That's all. There's something about seeing somebody

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Speaker 1: who you worked with so early on, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: yes every time, every time, just excited, excited, uh, looking

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Speaker 1: forward to yeah, all the good things. It's funny that

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Speaker 1: there came around the time that we met, it stopped

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Speaker 1: being a competition between other actors for me personally, Like

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Speaker 1: I I got to the point of my career where

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Speaker 1: if they were gonna cast me, it's like putting nutmeg

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Speaker 1: in and if they're gonna cast you, it's like putting

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Speaker 1: a little more spicy something. And so it didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like a competition. If like they're going to choose the

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Speaker 1: best spice for the soup, and these are my comrades

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Speaker 1: in arms, you know what I mean. Yeah, that's really

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Speaker 1: an interesting point, right, Like they the proverbial, they are

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Speaker 1: not choosing someone better, They're just choosing someone different ideally.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, look, I've I've shot the bed in

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Speaker 1: many auditions, so like there are times when they chose

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Speaker 1: someone better because I was of all. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes down to it, if you're if you're right for

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Speaker 1: the role, and you're you're what you're around, what they're

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Speaker 1: looking for, and you know there's another guy who's different

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Speaker 1: than you, and you know like I I read I

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Speaker 1: tested for, according to Jim, to be the brother in law. Okay,

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Speaker 1: have you seen according to Jim, I've seen according to Jim. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we we are. We are different. We are completely different

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Speaker 1: human beings. And and like I walked into the screen

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Speaker 1: test and I was like, Okay, so it's either him

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Speaker 1: or me. There's no there's no in between. Like They're

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Speaker 1: gonna go one way or the other, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: give my best version of it in this testing situation.

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Speaker 1: That's so awkward anyway, and then they're gonna they're gonna choose.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't take it. You know, it still sucks,

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Speaker 1: But um, you can acknowledge that it was a different

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Speaker 1: they were. They were making a different soup than what

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Speaker 1: I was bringing to the two. Yes, but you but yes.

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Speaker 1: But so at around the time we met, you started

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Speaker 1: being able to be happy for other people or other

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Speaker 1: people you have, Matt. Yeah, before before that, it was

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Speaker 1: a competition. You know, there was a pie. There was

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Speaker 1: only so many slices, you know that metaphor. And around

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Speaker 1: the time that we met, I started to get in

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Speaker 1: a place where I was like, you know, there's room

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Speaker 1: for there's place for everybody. To do well. Right, all right,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about our meeting here very shortly, but

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to go back to your

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Speaker 1: childhood for just a little bit. You grew up in

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Speaker 1: Texas As, Louisiana, Louisiana and Texas. Born in Texas, raised

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Speaker 1: in Louisiana, finished high school in Texas. Okay, but you

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Speaker 1: also were in Atlanta, because you know, I was in Atlanta, Atlanta, Texas, Atlanta, Texas. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Atlanta high School in a clean city in Texas to

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Speaker 1: very soon. I think they were the running rabbits, and

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Speaker 1: I think there were I want to say, eight thousand

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Speaker 1: people in the towne tiny little town. That makes sense

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Speaker 1: that I haven't heard of it. And also I was

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Speaker 1: going to ask you Atlanta high School I wasn't familiar with.

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Speaker 1: Was born and bred there. Um the running rabbits that

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Speaker 1: suits you. Actually you are, You're kind of like a rabbit.

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Speaker 1: I feel like quick, just used to be quick, yeah, shifty?

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Speaker 1: Maybe did you do sports in high school or early

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Speaker 1: on or early on? And then like eighth grade, I

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Speaker 1: just like I was playing football. I just located and

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Speaker 1: I was never gonna be a football player. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: be real clear I was. I was five ft on

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Speaker 1: my freshman year, um five to my sophomore year, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow until much later in high school. So

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Speaker 1: I I quickly went into to debate and spiting debate,

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Speaker 1: which led me to theater in a weird way. And

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Speaker 1: then um I did. I did cheerleading for one year

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Speaker 1: at at an all boys Catholic school, all all boys.

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Speaker 1: I was about to ask if you you were small,

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Speaker 1: if you were if you were strong enough to to

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Speaker 1: lift people up, but apparently you were lifted. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: very funny you to think that. And I can see that,

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Speaker 1: and and uh, and I think in retrospect, I probably

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Speaker 1: should have been the one being lifted. We had an

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Speaker 1: all girls sister school, well and they are girl cheerleaders

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Speaker 1: came from them, and so but Leah Leah Leah Hudson,

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Speaker 1: who's who's still friends of mine, was my cheerleading partner.

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Speaker 1: And we were definitely the weakest links like we were.

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Speaker 1: We were the bottom. But they needed eight couples and

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Speaker 1: they're like we they had seven, and they're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well let Leah Kevin, come on, I guess we need eight.

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Speaker 1: Let's go. We were we were not very good and

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of fun. Though. Wow, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: But now, wait a second. Isn't the point of an

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Speaker 1: all boys school to keep the boys and girls separate

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Speaker 1: yet lifting and cohording physically, I don't understand. Look, I

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Speaker 1: made a very smart decision. I could either have gone

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Speaker 1: to two days in the summer and be around a

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Speaker 1: bunch of sweaty, sweaty men smelling, with no chance of

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Speaker 1: ever playing the game because I was the third string.

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Speaker 1: Or I could go to cheerleading camp where there were

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Speaker 1: ten guys and four hundred girls. Right. I mean to

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Speaker 1: be clear though, to be the weakest length on the

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Speaker 1: cheerleading squad, but at least you're playing. At least you're

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Speaker 1: at least I'm on the team. Man, I'm I. I

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Speaker 1: got a letter. I am suited up. Do you have

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Speaker 1: a letter? I got a letter? Yeah? Oh yeah, well no,

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Speaker 1: well it's not a jacket's a sweater. It's a sweater.

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Speaker 1: It's a letter sweater. They didn't give us. They would

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Speaker 1: they literally the football team was like, no, they can't

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Speaker 1: have jackets, they can have sweaters. All the jocks are like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not cool. Okay, so you're cheerleading, but you really

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Speaker 1: start focusing on debate and that brings you to theater.

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Speaker 1: So you you started doing plays? Yeah, so I you know,

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Speaker 1: debate was my thing. Man, I I love debate. I

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Speaker 1: thought I wanted to go to law school. My grandmother

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Speaker 1: said I could argue with a signpost, and so I

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Speaker 1: when I moved high schools. When I quit the school

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Speaker 1: in Streeport, Louisiana, always Catholic school, I went to a

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Speaker 1: public school in East Texas and they didn't have a theater,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a debate program for they had a

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Speaker 1: huge drama program. So I got I got kind of

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Speaker 1: thrown into a drama class, and like I had done,

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Speaker 1: I did two Shakespeare plays my freshman and sophomore year,

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Speaker 1: not by choice because my big brother quote unquote for

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Speaker 1: the senior you have a senior as a freshman. He

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Speaker 1: was like, you're auditioning for the play. And I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. He goes, yeah, yeah you are, and I

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Speaker 1: was like okay. He was much bigger than I was,

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Speaker 1: and he bought my beer on the weekend, So I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I I did. I did. We did Julius Caesar

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Speaker 1: my freshman year and it was fun. You know, I

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Speaker 1: got the attention from the girls from the all girls

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Speaker 1: school that way as well. And and then when I

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Speaker 1: got to Atlanta, Texas, Yeah, they had a huge drama

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Speaker 1: program and I kind of just jumped in that. That's

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Speaker 1: where you you got the bug or you decided this

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Speaker 1: is what you wanted to do. Well, I definitely got

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Speaker 1: the bug. This is pre internet, this is pre you know.

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Speaker 1: No one had from any of those towns had gone

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Speaker 1: on to make something of themselves in our industry, and

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Speaker 1: so there was never a thought to do it professionally.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until I got to college and I thought,

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that in high school, maybe I should

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Speaker 1: try it in college. And I saw play. I saw

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Speaker 1: a two hander, Um, I can't think of anyw right now,

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Speaker 1: A guy girls show and it was really good and

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Speaker 1: the girl I fell in love with and she was amazing,

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Speaker 1: and um, Tally's Folly. That's the play I saw and

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Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, I should try that in college.

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Speaker 1: And that's when that's when I jumped into the theater program.

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Speaker 1: And that's when I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do this.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I

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Speaker 1: was going to do this, and uh, and I died.

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Speaker 1: He was going to play every semester and never looked

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Speaker 1: back from there doing a ton of THEA. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: similar to me, I found it like as an activity

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Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, that was what I was gonna do

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Speaker 1: in high school and right before college actually I decided,

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Speaker 1: oh I think I could actually do do this, and

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Speaker 1: so I went to school for it. It seems seems

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Speaker 1: like you were a little bit later. But this is

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Speaker 1: at b y U. Is that right? Where did you go?

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Speaker 1: Where did you go to college? Just study study theater SMU? Oh? Wow,

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Speaker 1: they had a good program, didn't they. Yeah, they did,

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Speaker 1: thank you for I mean obviously, I see. He was

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Speaker 1: one of the programs that I thought about going to

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Speaker 1: grad school. Okay, I thought about because my intent when

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Speaker 1: I was in college, my intent was to go to

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Speaker 1: grad school, get the m f A, and then go

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Speaker 1: to New York. And that was that was my intent.

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Speaker 1: And of course and like all, you know, all other

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Speaker 1: plans that changed. But um, that was the thought. You're

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Speaker 1: at b y U and you think you're going to

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Speaker 1: go to grad school. Uh, well, at the first two

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Speaker 1: years of b y U, the thought is I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go to law school. Um, this is just for doing

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Speaker 1: the theater for fun. Um, gonna go to law school

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Speaker 1: because that's how, you know, that's how I move up

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Speaker 1: in the world. And then like I just got the bug,

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Speaker 1: and I staid. Then I started working and I started

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Speaker 1: loving it, and I was like, unbeknownst to me, I

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Speaker 1: created a grad program for myself just by being lazy

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Speaker 1: and not going to the other classes. And so four

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Speaker 1: years in, I'm like, Okay, I need another year of

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Speaker 1: education before I can graduate. And it's all general education,

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Speaker 1: Like I needed sophomore English, and I needed to religion

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Speaker 1: classes and I needed math. And my two best friends

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Speaker 1: were leaving college and I was like, I can't be

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Speaker 1: here anymore. I'm taking someone spot. I wasn't. I was

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Speaker 1: pretending to be Mormon at the time, you know. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I can't. I gotta get out of here.

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Speaker 1: This is not for me. Um. And by one of

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Speaker 1: my best friends went to a c T and grad

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Speaker 1: to grad school. My of the best friend went to

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Speaker 1: New York to be an actress. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm already getting paid. I've already done. I'm sag eligible.

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Speaker 1: I've done two movies of the week I've done Promised

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Speaker 1: Land and touched by an Angels guest stars. I'm moving

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Speaker 1: to l A. Let's go, Let's pack my eight Honda

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Speaker 1: Accord with one working headlight. Let's go to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: And so you decide to go to Los Angeles. But wait,

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Speaker 1: I can't just you were pretending to be Mormon. What

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Speaker 1: I don't explain that Mormon. I grip Mormon. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: grew up, well, I grew up Mormon. I was baptized Mormon,

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Speaker 1: and then I did a mission for two years to

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Speaker 1: nineteen to twenty one. I went knocked on doors in

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Speaker 1: Switzerland and France, on islands East South Africa and tried

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Speaker 1: to condunce where I heard yes, yeah, and then uh.

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Speaker 1: And then I would go to buy U, mainly because

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Speaker 1: I knew if I went anywhere else to my friends

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Speaker 1: from high school at I would leave. Woman is very quicker,

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Speaker 1: probably like all my friends were at l s U

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Speaker 1: and UT and and uh and m um. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, I can't go Eric, so I'll get in

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Speaker 1: trouble fast. And so I went to be by you,

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Speaker 1: trying to be the good boy. And then within two

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Speaker 1: years I was like this is not for me. I

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Speaker 1: gotta get out of this, and I then you did.

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Speaker 1: But you have to be doing the things to stay there,

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Speaker 1: Like you have to go to church, you have to

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Speaker 1: have a bishop sign a thing saying you're doing all

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Speaker 1: the things, and so you have to lie ultimately. Um

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Speaker 1: so I I just I was. I had to. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'd go to Salt Lake with my friends on Saturday

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Speaker 1: night and then I'd teach Sunday school on Sunday morning.

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Speaker 1: So that was That's what pretending to be Mormon means. Right. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So because you did the missionary trip, you're older. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: so you you started started at one, right, so that

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Speaker 1: makes sense like that, you know, you're you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: grad school. But at that point, you know, you start

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Speaker 1: to get experience, you start to get maturity. As you said,

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Speaker 1: you start to get jobs. Now, when you worked on

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Speaker 1: Touch by an Angel? Was that filmed in Utah? Is

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Speaker 1: that how you promised? Land? And Touched by an Angel

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Speaker 1: were both shot in Salt Lake City, in and around

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake. Uh. And they always had like one movie

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Speaker 1: the week came through every year, a big movie would

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Speaker 1: come through every year. They had a they had a

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Speaker 1: decent you know, had a decent market in Salt Lake.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, there was a modeling agency in

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Speaker 1: salt Lake. CYS. This funny story. Actually Aaron eck Cart

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Speaker 1: was a year ahead of me at the way, and

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Speaker 1: he was a film student, not really in the acting tract,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and he was getting work as a mom.

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Speaker 1: He was with this modeling agency. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: if that guy can get work, I can get work.

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Speaker 1: And I went and got his agent because he would

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Speaker 1: be he was like the helicopter pilot and like you know,

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Speaker 1: he was like he would get these day jobs. They're

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Speaker 1: paying like five hundred bucks a day, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I can do that. That's better than delivering flowers on

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Speaker 1: the weekend, you know what I mean, Like, I'll go

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Speaker 1: do that. And uh so I literally went to Salt

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Speaker 1: Lake and got his agent and that's how I started.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I started booking you know, blue local

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Speaker 1: commercials and radio spots and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: It was a hand model for one day once. Just

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Speaker 1: the left hand though, it's better than the right hand.

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Speaker 1: Your left hand is more attractive than you're right. That's

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Speaker 1: that's that's what I was told. That's what I was

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Speaker 1: told by professionals. I'm just gonna leave that. I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't need to go deep into this, but I

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Speaker 1: will tell you a story about Salt Lake because you

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Speaker 1: say you went out in Salt Lake. Now now things

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Speaker 1: are different. Things are different now I understand. And I

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Speaker 1: have been back. And by the way, salt Lake City,

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Speaker 1: beautiful city, very nice, beautiful state. Utah. I love it now.

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Speaker 1: I there was another show that filmed there that I

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Speaker 1: happened to do a couple of episodes on. I think

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Speaker 1: ever would film there in Utah. And I remember arriving.

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Speaker 1: This is such a tangent. I remember arriving on the

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Speaker 1: day of the National Championship Basketball tournament, right, so the

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Speaker 1: final four, but the championship day it's always a Monday.

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Speaker 1: I check into the hotel and I'm like, where is

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Speaker 1: a bar? I want to watch the game. I'm a

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Speaker 1: sports fan. And they were like, okay, well it's down

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Speaker 1: And I remember walking down this highway. Walking down this highway,

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Speaker 1: it starts snowing and I get to a sports bar

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Speaker 1: just think Chili's, I don't know, and they asked me

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Speaker 1: for my membership number and I'm like, this is a

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Speaker 1: sports what do you and you had to have you

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Speaker 1: had to be registered in order to enter and established

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Speaker 1: join the private club. Yes, to join the private club

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Speaker 1: of Applebee's or whatever, like you literally had to join.

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Speaker 1: It's where the it's it's behind the ropes of Applebee's,

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Speaker 1: right like it's like the v I P of Applebee's.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well can I yeah? No, No,

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Speaker 1: it was like two dollars. I was like, how much

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Speaker 1: is it to join? Two dollars? But I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: registered in the state of Utah for having him at

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Speaker 1: that one Applebee's just that one app it was. It

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Speaker 1: just not. It's like if you go if you go

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Speaker 1: down to a weaverer, it does not it's not transferred

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Speaker 1: to the not it's not transferable, no non transfer. So

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Speaker 1: my version of that is I met by U just

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Speaker 1: side I want a beer. I'm like, I'm done with Mormonism.

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Speaker 1: I just all I want is a beer. I haven't

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Speaker 1: had a beer in probably five or six seven years.

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Speaker 1: And probably the hot beverage or a hot Toddy you

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Speaker 1: a hot beverage, yest um, those are just as bad. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know your Mormonism, you know your Word of wisdom.

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Speaker 1: So uh, there's there was two bars in Provo. One

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Speaker 1: of them was called the ABC Bar dive a little

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Speaker 1: dive bar in downtown Provo, and the other one was

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Speaker 1: at the Marriott, which you could possibly run into someone.

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Speaker 1: And so I figured, anyone who I run into with

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Speaker 1: the ABC Bar is not gonna knock on me, because

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ork on them. The joke is, if

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Speaker 1: you want to drink a beer, invite invite one Mormon over,

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Speaker 1: because if you invite you know, two Mormons over, they

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00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 1: won't drink, but one who don't drink your beer. Um,

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Speaker 1: So you go in. I go up to the door

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Speaker 1: and I have I'm poor college student, I have like

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Speaker 1: twenty dollars in my pocket. And I get to the

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Speaker 1: door and the door guy goes, are you a member?

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Speaker 1: And I think of the church, and I'm like um,

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Speaker 1: because I'm I I have the Mormon boy haircut, I'm

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Speaker 1: in Khaki's like I look like a Mormon missionary still,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, are you a member? And I went, um, no,

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Speaker 1: and he goes of the bar, you have to be

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Speaker 1: a member of the bar. And I'm from Louisiana where

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Speaker 1: at fourteen you could walk up to anywhere and did

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Speaker 1: give up here for free. And I was like, whatever,

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Speaker 1: kid here have a have a hurricane twelve year old

355
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Speaker 1: and so I'm like, I have to be a member.

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Speaker 1: I was so confused. I was like, get to be

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Speaker 1: a member of what? He was the bar? You have

358
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: to join the bar? And I said how much? And

359
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 1: he told me twenty bucks. And I had twenty bucks

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Speaker 1: in my pocket and that's if I pay them to join.

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Speaker 1: I can't afford to buy a drink, and so I

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Speaker 1: I go, I just kind of go, dude, I only

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Speaker 1: have twenty dollars. And he goes, well, someone can sponsor you.

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Speaker 1: And then he turns and he goes, anyone here, I

365
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Speaker 1: want to sponsor this kid. And there's like maybe ten people,

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Speaker 1: like a dartboard in the back and the jukebox and

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Speaker 1: it's like the record skips. Everyone turns and looks at

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Speaker 1: me and they all look me up and down, pause,

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Speaker 1: and then look away. Not one person, not one person

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Speaker 1: sponsored me. And I was like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: is awful. I just want okay, and I just I

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Speaker 1: I sunk my head and I went home. I did

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Speaker 1: not get a beer. That I did not get a beer. Well,

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Speaker 1: you had you had people, You had people even though

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Speaker 1: you thought there was nobody watching you, there were people

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Speaker 1: watching you. Oh yeah, yeah someone someone was watching the Lord.

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Speaker 1: The Lord was watching. Yes, the Lord was watching you.

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Speaker 1: Moved to Los Angeles and then what you you work

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Speaker 1: to get an agent and you start auditioning. Is this

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Speaker 1: this is how it goes. So I was I was

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Speaker 1: ahead of the game because you know, um, well, an

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Speaker 1: agent wouldn't see you at the time unless you were

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Speaker 1: eligible or already SAG. And you know, it's kind of

384
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Speaker 1: like you have to get a job to become SAG,

385
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Speaker 1: but no one would give you a job unless you

386
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 1: were SACK. It's one of those. And so the way

387
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 1: to get your SAG card is either to be come

388
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: an extra for multiple days where you had to become

389
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 1: friends with the A D s and they give you

390
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: a voucher and that takes a while. And the other

391
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 1: way is to get cast in something where they called

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Speaker 1: us staff heartley you know this, but the audiences don't

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00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 1: know what's called taff heart lead and they have to

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00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: pay a fine to hire you and say, there's no

395
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: one else you can do this job in town that's union.

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00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 1: So we're gonna make this kid eligible. And so I

397
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: did that in Utah. So I was ahead of the game.

398
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: But by being sag eligible, I had I had a

399
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: tape at the time, literally on tape, so I had,

400
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: I had, I had five minutes of me on camera

401
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 1: that I could show people. And I had won this

402
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: acting award in college, and so I thought that was

403
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: gonna be a big entryway. And so and then David Giella,

404
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: who was the casting director for touched fin Angel and

405
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,239
Speaker 1: promised land at the time I reached out to him.

406
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: He actually reached out to me and said when are

407
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: you moving down? And I said, actually, I'm coming in

408
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: a couple of months. And he goes, okay, well, let

409
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: me know when you get in town. And I put

410
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: together I spent, like you, two hundred dollars at Kinko's

411
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: money I didn't have making color copies of the newspaper

412
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: stuff from when I winned this playwriting of this National

413
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: Acting Award, um and the and the play I was

414
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 1: in when the National Playwriting Award and we get to

415
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 1: perform it in Kennedy Center and d C. And it's

416
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: like the heisman of acting, right and but but that's

417
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: no one knows about it, so the know the Irene. Yeah,

418
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: this is a big Granny clamp It award is my friends.

419
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 1: My friends call it the Granny clamp It Award. Um. So,

420
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 1: I I put together this packet and like my resume

421
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: and but like it's mainly it's like it's like ten

422
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: color pages of this stuff about the Irene Ryan and

423
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: the National Player running awards stuff and uh I submitted

424
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 1: David gave me, Uh, David Giella gave me like twenty

425
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: agencies to submit to, and I so, I twenty copies

426
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: of this that I submitted, you know, Tension so and

427
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: so at this agency referred by David Kiela. Just say

428
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: that as I can't. I say, there's twenty of them

429
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 1: that I submitted to, like three of them. Some assistant

430
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: called new is, Hey, dude, come pick this up. It's

431
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 1: they're gonna throw it away. And it's just this you

432
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 1: put to get a lot of work into this. It's

433
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: really nice. I don't want to throw it away. You'd

434
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 1: probably come pick it up. I'm like, okay, thanks. No

435
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: word from anyone else. And then two of them call me. Um,

436
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: I get two meetings out of it, and like one

437
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 1: of them is the artist agency where I ended up

438
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: UH signing with at the time, and uh, I said,

439
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: so what about the Like I just for my reference, Like,

440
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: what did you like about the packet? They're like, what packet?

441
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, the twenty pages of color copies of information

442
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: about my my accolades from college theater um that clearly

443
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: or the reason I'm in this room. They're like, oh no, no,

444
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: we just saw David's name on the cover and that

445
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: someone called you. It's nothing to do. You could have

446
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: written said hey, David said call you, and we would

447
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 1: have called you. I was like, oh, cool, thanks, It's

448
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: like all that energy and like, uh, that's so good.

449
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: By the way, I did the same thing. I'm sure

450
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: no one called me. No one called me to pick

451
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: up my packet. I ran into one of fairly recently.

452
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: You had the packet still, I had it somewhere, Yes,

453
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: I ran into it, like in my archives. I don't know,

454
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: do I have an archive in my hope somewhere, I

455
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: hope somewhere there's a copy of that. I know, I

456
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: know I have some old head shots and stuff like that,

457
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: but I hope somewhere is I mean, somewhere is the

458
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: newspaper clippings. But I don't know if the colored copied.

459
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't spend the extra money

460
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: to get the spiraling put on it. Like that was

461
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: too much, right, I think I stapled it. What were

462
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: some of the challenges for you starting out once you

463
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: moved to Los Angeles? Did it? Was it easier, harder

464
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: than you expected it to be, or it was hard?

465
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: It was? It was hard. I mean, like I uh,

466
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: it seemed like this impenetrable fortress. Like it's felt like

467
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: you were walking up to like one of those old

468
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: Babylonian cities and there's a there's one gate and you

469
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: can you can hear what's happening inside, and but you

470
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: can't figure out your way over this wall or through

471
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: this gate, and it just felt like there was it

472
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: felt like it was really slow, like everything was just

473
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: crazy slow. It's like, you know, I put all this

474
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 1: together and email mailed him and I you mailed him

475
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: at the time, like instead of drapping, they're not gonna

476
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: let you drop them off, so you have to wait

477
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: a week before you could possibly hear something. You know,

478
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: so it's like a week of doing what what do

479
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: I do for a week? Uh? You know, you get

480
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: a job to make money. I played basketball and pickup

481
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: games and outdoor parks, and you know, it's like what

482
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: do you do with your time? I hadn't found an

483
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: acting class yet, um, so I started waiting tables, and

484
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: I just feel like a long time until I got situated.

485
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: I had some horrible apartment experiences, and I mean I

486
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 1: rented a room from this cat lady that I found,

487
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, and I can't remember where I found the ad,

488
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: but like I read it was like, you know, less

489
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: than two d a month. I was renting this one

490
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: room in this house of this woman who managed the

491
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: house and the apartments behind it, and I literally there

492
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: was just dog and cat hair everywhere, and like I

493
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: would just go in there and sleep at night that

494
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: I'd leave all day because I didn't know what to do,

495
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: Like what do you do? So eventually you get a

496
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: role in Jesse, Yes, and then what your first well

497
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: before the first one was Everything's Relative. So that was

498
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: four episodes. It was me and Jeffrey Tambor, Jill Clayburgh

499
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: and Eric Schaefer. It was they, it was Want to

500
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: Be Arrested Development, it was Mitch Hurwitz, it was Jim Valley, Geniuses,

501
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: and I was de Bateman character and to put out

502
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: the center of the family, keeping everyone together. And they

503
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: hadn't figured it out yet, right, they hadn't worked it

504
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: out yet, But I read for that once a month

505
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: for six months, Alison Jones would bring me in and

506
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: I would read, and they'd be like, that's exactly what

507
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: we're looking for. Who's next? Because they were looking for

508
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: ja They wanted Jason Bateman. They wanted someone with the

509
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: name to come in and be the lead of their show.

510
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: And finally they cast Jeffrey Tambor and then they could

511
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: cast and nobody as the as the guy as the kid,

512
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: and uh. We did four episodes. We were after just

513
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: shoot me, I think on NBC in the in the spring,

514
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: and they candid immediately, and then I jumped on Jesse.

515
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: That's what then people in the business know who I

516
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: knew who I was. I did another pilot right after

517
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: that with Patrick Warburton. Patrick and I did a pilot

518
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: together called Jeff of the Universe, where I was Jeff

519
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: and uh and my claim to fame at the times

520
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: I read again like one of the people reading for

521
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: that role was John Cryer, and I was like, I

522
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: walked into the audition room, and I'm like, are you

523
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: fucking kidding me? I'm reading against John Carr. There's no

524
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: way I get this job. Of course, Ducky gets this job.

525
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: How do I? How do I get a job? It's

526
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: John Craiger. John Kraiger is gonna get this job. And

527
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: I think because he was one of the people testing,

528
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: I completely relaxed, And I think that's why I got

529
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: the job, because I was like, oh, I'm not going

530
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: to get this job, so I'm just gonna try to

531
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: be the best I can in this room. So for

532
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: the next job, right, maybe they'll maybe these people like

533
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: me and I'll get up. I'll get another part of

534
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: the show later on. So I think that's part of

535
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: the reason I booked that pilot. And then then I

536
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: jumped then I jumped on Jesse that summer. It was

537
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: like that was back to back to back those three jobs.

538
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: So your career is is taking off at this point? Yes, Yeah,

539
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: you're starting to feel good and confident. Oh maybe a

540
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: little too confident confident maybe maybe a little maybe a

541
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: little too confident, I'm not. Yeah, and then judging Amy, yeah,

542
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: that's your first long time show, right, more than more

543
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: that Yeah, Jesse, I did one year. Everything's relative was

544
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: four episodes. This was three seasons, like I did three

545
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: full years of twenty two episodes a year. I bought

546
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: my house like this is That was the one that like, okay,

547
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: I can't Yeah, I'm now a working actor full time.

548
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: And then we met right after I left judging Amy. Yeah, no,

549
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: so that's where I'm gonna go. I mean, for first

550
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: off three years and that stability that that brings. What

551
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: did that? What did that give you as an actor? Uh? Well,

552
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: beside your house a little besides a home and literally

553
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: my first home, like my first not just a house,

554
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: but my first home where I I created a safe

555
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: place for myself. That was the positive side of it.

556
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: It gave me boodles of confidence as I when working

557
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: with Tyne Daily and Amy Brennaman on the regular and

558
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: feeling like I was holding my own with them made

559
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: me feel like I deserve to be in the room.

560
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: I deserve to be in the in the talk like

561
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: I felt like I and and and really naively of myself.

562
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: I felt like, Okay, I've been number three on a

563
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: TV hit, hit, acclaimed TV show, not not as not

564
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: as part of the Zeitgeister a juggernaut ratings wise, but

565
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: like well respected. It's respected for its acting at least,

566
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, yep. Um. So the next step is I'll

567
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: get my own show. That's the next step. And so

568
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: maybe a little too confident looking into that when I

569
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: walked out of Judging Gavey. So I leave Judging Amy

570
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: and it's like, uh, they're gonna do one more year.

571
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: They're letting um uh oh gosh, what I'm gonna say.

572
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: I can't lave forgo this name. He left the show.

573
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: He was gonna come back for the last year, and

574
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: I had replaced him mostensib plice. So anyway, so that

575
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: I anyway, so I leave, I leave the show, and

576
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, right and high man, this is like this

577
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: coming this back when they had pilot season. You know,

578
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: I leave in the spring, I have this summer off

579
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: I do it, you know, motorcycle trip to Europe, blah

580
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: blah blah. And then that that like November, I get

581
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: an audition for this cable show for a network I've

582
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: never heard of. And it's a really good script, like

583
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: really like I was like, holy cow, this is amazing.

584
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: And I go in and I meet the creator and

585
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: I read for it and they're like, yeah, we want

586
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: you to test for this, and I get the test

587
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: deal and it is half of my quote for half

588
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: of the amount of episodes. Right. So, and this is November,

589
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: so pilot seasons January February where I'm gonna get my

590
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: own show because that's what happens next. And this is

591
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: like an ensemble show. And I'm definitely not the lead,

592
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: not even like maybe like the fifth lead. But it's

593
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: a really really good script and I really like this guy.

594
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: I wrote it and and I said, good look, guys,

595
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: I can't I can't test for this. This is not

596
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna take a fourth of my pay

597
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm about to get my own show, guys,

598
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: So thank you, but good luck with your little show

599
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: on a network called f X whatever that is. Uh.

600
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: That show was The Shield, um and and so uh

601
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: and that person was Sean Ryan who who who? And

602
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: I look, I don't know that I would have gotten

603
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: the part, but I was in the I was in

604
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: the mix for the part, right and then I what

605
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: I what happened that pilot seasons if if you can

606
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: guess already is I did not get my own show.

607
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: Not only did I not get my own show, I

608
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: did not get any shows I tested. I don't know

609
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: how many times I tested, but it was in the

610
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: high teams. I tested for things and didn't book anything.

611
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: And I learned. My lesson I learned was that zero

612
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: times five years is still zero. And I was. I

613
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: was a little humbled after that year. And this brings

614
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: us to moose Cock o Man. I mean, listen, Kevin

615
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: and I met on a little project and it's called

616
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: moose Coock. It exists out there, it's out there, and

617
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: so coming off of of this show, I'm more surprised

618
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: that you said yes than I did. I had, at

619
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: the time, shot a pilot for a show called The

620
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: Office that everyone, including you, oh Will, every everybody that

621
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: I worked with, was sure was doomed for absolute failure.

622
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: I owe you the biggest apology. I was so unbelievably

623
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: condescending to you that day. I'm sure of it. I'm

624
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: sure I don't remember exactly you told me. You told

625
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: me I just shot a pilot. I'm like, oh, good

626
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,239
Speaker 1: for you, we just met. Oh good for congratulations. Man.

627
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: What's the pilot? It's the American version of the office

628
00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: and I literally went, oh the got my face is like, you,

629
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: dumb sap. I hope you. I hope you saved every

630
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: fucking penny they gave you. This ship is going nowhere.

631
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: Have you seen the original office. There's no way, There's

632
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: no one you can cast to compete. There is no

633
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: Steve Carrell PI out there to create this. Oh my god,

634
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: I was so everyone Will Will, our director writer was condescending.

635
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: We were all like you, pour, dumb sap. Hopefully this

636
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: makes it to festivals for you. Um we we we

637
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: both we both said yes. Now I have to tell you.

638
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. I need to know from you if

639
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: this is true for you. I mean I do a

640
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: lot of appearances of colleges. Now I'm invited. I'm not

641
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: just hanging out our campus. Important notes important note. That's

642
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: the important note. Good information. But undoubtedly some smartass in

643
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: the audience will raise their hands end and start talking

644
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: effusively about admiring my work. Uh in Moosecock and it

645
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: is a title that brings confusion unsettled ness? Is that

646
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: a word? I don't think so? Are you asked about Moosecock?

647
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: Not as often? Not as often as you are I'm

648
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: not doing that my college experience. I my college tours

649
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: aren't sanctioned, and so I'm just hanging out looking for

650
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: a cheap salad. So uh, I feel like college kids

651
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: are the ones who are going to do a deep

652
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: dive on IMDb to say the funny thing in front

653
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: of their buddies. So they're gonna find it. Um yeah,

654
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: So no, I don't. I don't get it as much.

655
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: I get it like every every once in a while, right,

656
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: but you know, not as all. Well, it's there, it's

657
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: a part of the record. It's really funny. It is.

658
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny the stuff, the stuff we got

659
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: to do together, and I loved I mean, you got

660
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: to go that, you went on and did all of

661
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: this other stuff that I wasn't up part of. But

662
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: like I that was a fun day for me. Like

663
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed shooting that with you. Yes, and I

664
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: like he let us play, it was like it was

665
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Like I really enjoyed that experience. That

666
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: was one of the that was one of the first

667
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: times I walked onto a set and felt confident to play,

668
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like because it was will

669
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: we knew it was our buddy and he and he

670
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: cast us because he knew we could do it, and

671
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: so I didn't feel any weird pressure about being something

672
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: or doing something an extra Yeah. No, I remember it

673
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: being incredibly fun and never could I have dreamed it

674
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: could have won the Oscar and I it would not

675
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: have gotten as much attention but for the name for

676
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: me all these years later, I love you still get it?

677
00:34:44,280 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, um, no comment. So things don't go quite

678
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: as you expect them to go. However, shortly thereafter you

679
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: start a run of shows, historic shows, one might say,

680
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm very, very jealous of this, and I mean this sincerely.

681
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: With Desperate Housewives, starting on a show that's already established

682
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: that you don't have to sort of fight to invent.

683
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: The world is there and created by the time you

684
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: get on, talk to me a little bit. Were you

685
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: a fan? Had you watched Desperate Housewives before auditioning, or

686
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: how did that come about? I I was like everyone

687
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: else in the country for the first two seasons, I was.

688
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: I was a fan. I watched religiously, loved the ladies,

689
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: loved what they were doing. I loved Marks, the tone

690
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: that Mark took with the show. I thought it was

691
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: so unique and interesting and um, there's a reason it's

692
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: it was part of the zeitgeist. Um. And then I

693
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: got the audition for it. And it's funny because like

694
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: I was dating my now wife long distance and she, uh,

695
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: she we she had come to visit me in l A.

696
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: And of course, the minute she booked a flight to

697
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: come visit me, I booked a job. And I was

698
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: doing an episode of Scrubs as a guest and my

699
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: character had had been bitten by a tick and had

700
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: lines disease, and so they finally had to shave my

701
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: head to find the tick. And so I'm in a

702
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: ball cap and my audition, let's say, let's say it's

703
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: at four o'clock. My auditions at four o'clock for Housewives,

704
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: and I'm supposed to read for leak for Bob, and

705
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: they don't let me out there and let me I

706
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: take my ball cap off until like three thirty, and

707
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 1: they're like, if you're not here by four, you can't

708
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: get in. And I raced down this down the street

709
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: from each other, and she's in the car with me,

710
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: and I pull up to the lot and uh that

711
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: that that entrance entrance through on the left at Universal,

712
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: I had like ten minutes to get in and I'm like,

713
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm racing and I give my a D and he's like, okay,

714
00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: what about her? And I'm like what about her? He's like,

715
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: she can't, she's not on the list. I'm like, well,

716
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: she's with me. She's just gonna sit in the car

717
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: this okay, And they're like, no, no, she can't come

718
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: on along. I'm like, no, well, I don't understand what

719
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: you what do you want her to sit on the curb?

720
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: Like what do you want for me right now? And

721
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm I just I'm getting so mad at this poor

722
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: person doing their job and becoming I I'm like, what

723
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: do you They're like, yeah, she's got I'm like, no,

724
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: she's I'm not. And my now wife Amy, she goes, Kevin,

725
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: go to your audition. I'm gonna stay, I'm gonna get

726
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: out of the car and I'm gonna stand here on

727
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: the curb while and I'm like, no, you are, and

728
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: I'm not letting you stand on the curb while I

729
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: go read this. And I'm not even sure I want

730
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: to do this. I'm not even sure I want to

731
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: be on the show. And so I go, so I

732
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: find going to the I get there like three fifty nine,

733
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: and I go in and I read Bob and Bark.

734
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: Sheera goes, did you look at Lee? And I go, yeah,

735
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: he's funnier, and he goes, will you look at it?

736
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: Go yeah, give me two minutes. It's fine, give me

737
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: two minutes. And I go outside and I look at

738
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: it for two minutes and I come back in and

739
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: I just become a bitchy queen. I just I'm like

740
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: mm ummmmmmm. And and that's so I think the gate

741
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: guard because I think because I was so heated when

742
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: I walked in, that's time I got the job. And

743
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: now my wife takes full credit for me getting that job.

744
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was walking into an established world. Uh,

745
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: it was just fun like it was just play. And

746
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: they would write. They would just write the biggest, funnest

747
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: stuff for me, and I would just see if I

748
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: could do it, and uh, and I would say, let's go,

749
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: let's how big? And there was one one of my

750
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: favorite moments of the whole show is there and I

751
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: when I read it, I laughed out loud. And then

752
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: it's a it's a sight gag where they're like and

753
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: behind her, you see Lee skating down the street like

754
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: roller skating, and they never explain it, they never see it. Again.

755
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: I never talked about skating, but I'm wearing like shorts

756
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: and kneepads and like a bright yellow sweater vest and

757
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: and I skateboard. I mean I I roller skate behind

758
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: you know, like I just it was just silly and fun,

759
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: and uh yeah it started. It started a run of like,

760
00:38:58,239 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: if you want your show to end in three years,

761
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm your guy. Bring me in about three more good

762
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: years and then we're done. People. Yeah, but that's that's

763
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: not a bad number of years. No, No, that's a

764
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: good number. Mark Cherry, the creator who you mentioned, has

765
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: said that he wanted to treat Lee and Bob like

766
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: the heterosexual couples on the show. Um. Yeah, this is

767
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: an approach that is ahead of its time at this point,

768
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: right for network television to treat them just like any

769
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: other couples. Obviously, gay marriage is not legalized at this point.

770
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: Did he talk to you about this or did this

771
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: This is a part of the conversation. He introduced me

772
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: as the fifth housewife in the in the room and

773
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: the right, and like any time we depressed anytime. He's like,

774
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: Lee is the fifth housewife. That's the that's and that's

775
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: how he That's how everybody thought of them, you know.

776
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: And some people were okay with it, and some weren't,

777
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: and some people were different versions of okay with it. Um.

778
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the one of my audition scenes

779
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: was the scene with Terry Hatcher where she shows up

780
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: to give us, to introduced herself and give us cookies,

781
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: and she realizes in the scene that we're not couples.

782
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: We're not we're not at partners as in business partners,

783
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: were life partners. And like the moment that that realization

784
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: happens was one of my audition scenes. And I added

785
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: this bit in the audition where she suppose we say something,

786
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: she says something, we say something, and then she realizes

787
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: and uh, it's between her lines that she realizes. And

788
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: so in between the pause, I just turned the bob

789
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: and I go, wait for it. She and then she

790
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: realizes which killed in the audition, right, It killed in

791
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: the audition. It wasn't on the page and it killed

792
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: in the audition. And then I I made the mistake

793
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: of doing it in rehearsal without telling her on my

794
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: first day and and she goes, what are you What

795
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: are you doing? What are you doing that's not on

796
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: the page? And I was like, oh, I just did

797
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: something I did in the audition and they thought it

798
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: was funny. She goes, yeah, I don't. I don't. We're

799
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: not going to do it like that, are we can?

800
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: Like turn to the director and he goes, no, no,

801
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do because what you realize is they

802
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: cut away. They would cut away from her instead, so

803
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: it wouldn't the camera wouldn't stay on her. It would

804
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: cut away to me and go back to her. And

805
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: she's like, no, we're gonna stay on me, the new boy.

806
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: We don't know you yet. We'll see you might. You

807
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: might earn that tape later, but we'll see. For now,

808
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: the camera is going to stay on the lead of

809
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: the show. I was like, okay, cool, good enough, good

810
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: to know that. Yeah, it's so good. I love Terry. Uh. Um,

811
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: what do you think that show's legacy is today? It's

812
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: it's hard. It was so big at the time, it

813
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: was so big. It was so big. Um. I have

814
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: really good friends from that Still, I don't know. I

815
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: don't know where it will stack up. Look, it's not

816
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: it's not mash for me, you know, it's not Sopranos

817
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: for me. But as far as comedies, man, it's up there.

818
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting in fifteen years from now to see

819
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: if it holds up, you know what I mean, and

820
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: whether or not it feels kind of universal though I

821
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: I you know, I feel like it's I haven't. I

822
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. I don't, you know, I don't even

823
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: know if it's airing anywhere right now. I'd be interested,

824
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: you know it now it seems like the time of reunions,

825
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: and I'd be interested to see if there would ever

826
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: if that is even possible, you know, what the story

827
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: would be if if it's possible to do that, or

828
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: if it's if it's just dead no water. I don't know,

829
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: but you know, i'd be I'd be interested to see

830
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: what those people were doing. Yeah, you mentioned the Sopranos,

831
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 1: widely considered by myself included the greatest drama television show

832
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: of all time. You put you put that, you put

833
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: it above the wire. I do. For me, it's for me,

834
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: it's number one, but there's there's a top five that

835
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: is really close. And you were in one of those

836
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: mad men. Um, Ted Chaw you joined that show late

837
00:42:54,280 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: as well. UM, just an un unbelievable for formants. I

838
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: have to I have to tell you there was just

839
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: this disarming confidence and presentness. There was just something that

840
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: was so pleasurable, even when we weren't rooting for you,

841
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: especially early on, that I just I found so remarkable.

842
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: So you should feel just so good about that performance.

843
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: That is very this is very very kind of you.

844
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: They Um, that was a special, special special place you've

845
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: you note John Ham and you talked to him recently. Um,

846
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: what he's and he's the guy you want as your

847
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 1: number one. He's the guy you want leading the ship.

848
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: As from the actor's point of view, Matt Weiner crazy

849
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: smart and and and so focused and has such a strong,

850
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: strong point of view, and he's the guy you want

851
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: leading the ship that way, you know, demanding of everyone

852
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: to bring their a game. I mean everyone from top

853
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: to bottom. I mean I there's I have so many

854
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 1: stories about that show that there's there's a scene where

855
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: my secretary hands me a plane ticket I'm going to California,

856
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: and it's in front of my office and then I think,

857
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: I think Lizzie comes up, Peggy comes up to complain

858
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: about something, and more was handing me the ticket. I

859
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: literally take the ticket I put in my pocket. Let

860
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: you see it the outside of the ticket for a second,

861
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: and that was it. You never you never see me

862
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: open it later. You never you know that ticket I

863
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: when you open it up, is a carbon copy plane

864
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: ticket like they had during the time. And I guarantee

865
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: you if you look up the dates of the flights

866
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: of that day, then flight numbers correct, the time is correct.

867
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: It's a carbon copy. And that's one of the things

868
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: I kept like. It ended up in my pocket. I

869
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: took it back to my trailer and I was like,

870
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: I'll give it to him tomorrow, and I forgot about it,

871
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: and I at the end, I just put it in

872
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: a book and took it home. So it's in a

873
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: book somewhere in my bookcase. Um. But like if they

874
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: handed you a file on hersheet, it was a file

875
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: on Hershe. It was twenty pages of information about Hershey,

876
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: and not same page over and over again. It was

877
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 1: someone someone somewhere had spent the weekend creating a file

878
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: on Hershey candy bar. And so in the scene when

879
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: you look down at any page. You could become lost

880
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: in that the world was so like there was a

881
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: moment where Elizabeth had a poster of a jazz festival

882
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: um and the behind her and like Matt came into

883
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: a rehearsal was like, Nope, that doesn't happen for three months.

884
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: Take it down, get the other one, or that's not

885
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: until next year, or you know something like you know,

886
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: just the detail that painting hasn't painted yet, that hasn't

887
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: happened yet. Like that. Housewives was similar in the sense

888
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: that Mark Cherry and and and Matt Winer gave you

889
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: the box man, here's the box, this is this is

890
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: the box we're playing in, and then you could go

891
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: crazy in that box. And I remember getting to lethal

892
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: weapons and I was like, okay, tell me what the

893
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: boxes where? You give me the box and and and

894
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: they're like, that's cool, let's do whatever you're doing. Great.

895
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, but I need what's the what's the

896
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: give me? Give me the box man, what's give me this?

897
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: But I didn't I need this box? So I can.

898
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: They're like, no, you're doing what you're doing great, it's fun.

899
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, but can we And I love Matt Miller's great,

900
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: but Matt Miller doesn't have the box like those He's

901
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: not as he's not as uptight about his world as

902
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: they are in that way. But I liked I like

903
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: the box man, I like having the box. And then

904
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: the confidence thing I got lucky it was that was

905
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: one of those auditions were in the room. I mean

906
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: that it was at the height. Man, Everyone in l

907
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: A love that. Everyone in l A knew the show.

908
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: I don't know how about it. I don't know if

909
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: it had won words already. It was it was part

910
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: of the Psycheist already when I read for it, and

911
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: in the and I don't remember who they were, but

912
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: I remember in the room knowing everyone in the room,

913
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: like you recognized every actor in that room. They had

914
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: all done stuff, they all worked, they were all good,

915
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: and it was one of those moments it's like, Okay,

916
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: here's my take, here's my take on it. This is

917
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: what I think the guy doesn't is and and this

918
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: is the other thing they don't. I don't know if

919
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: you know this, but they they never told you who

920
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: you were actually reading for and with like all the

921
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: names have been changed. So when you get the audition scene,

922
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: it's a scene from the show, but they don't want

923
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: anyone to know what's happening in the show, so they've

924
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: changed the names. And so I just figure. I just

925
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this guy's talking to John Draper.

926
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: This has to be with Don you know, if he's

927
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: gonna come out, he's gonna it was this The Benny

928
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: Hannes scene was my audition scene, and I was like, Oh,

929
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: he's talking to Don Draper and he's sucking with him.

930
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: He thinks he's as good as Don Draper. That's the guy.

931
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: He's gotta he's gotta be as confident, but he's got

932
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 1: to do it differently. It's gotta be with a smile, right,

933
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: And that's I guessed correctly in the sense of like

934
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: of like what they were looking for for the role,

935
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: and then brought my my my spice to it. Um.

936
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: It was fun, man, it was Oh my god that

937
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: it was. What a dream? What a dream? Everyone man.

938
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: Jay Ferguson, Uh, we had worked together on Judging Amy

939
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: and and then Slattery. We had worked together for a

940
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: minute on Housewives. So when I walked into my first

941
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: table read, there's two guys I know and love and

942
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: Slat's like, hey, Grom, come over here, man. You know

943
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: j already cool, you know John, Hey, this is Lizzie,

944
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: this is yesh Sa now and welcome to the you know,

945
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: welcome to our you know. And then Matt Winer would

946
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: come and be like, okay, welcome everyone. You're now part

947
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: of the Madman family. Um, do not tell anybody what

948
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 1: your character's name is. Do not telling me what year

949
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: it is. If you do, we will recast you, or

950
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: we'll re shoot without you. Welcome to the show. It's like,

951
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: if you want to read, if you want to read lines,

952
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: do not read it with anyone else. We have someone

953
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: to do that for you. If you tell anybody, if

954
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: you tweet about it, if you you know, I think

955
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: Twitter was just happening, Like if you if you talk

956
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: about it, if you tweet about if you put it

957
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: on social media, we will recast you, and we will

958
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 1: we will do it that you welcome, Welcome. I often

959
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: wondered about this because of the merger and everything else

960
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: that that happened through the show. Were you secure that

961
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: you were staying around? Did you know the story enough,

962
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: did you know that they were going to bring you on,

963
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: continue with you or was there a point where you

964
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 1: were sort of living in that limbo of of maybe

965
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: getting downsized the Chevy, the Chevy thing. Yeah, by that point,

966
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: I felt pretty confident. I felt like I felt like

967
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: I had a I had a place, I had a

968
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: place in the world. But it was I never got

969
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: overconfident in the sense that I and I never didn't

970
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: show up prepared like that was. I didn't get to

971
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: like they need me now, you know what I mean?

972
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: Like I always I always felt like I was replaceable,

973
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: but I didn't really get a I wasn't really afraid,

974
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: like you know, like when I got cast, I was

975
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: cast as a guest, a day player. Yeah, I think

976
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: that's where I'm going, because it felt like you just

977
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of kept surviving. It felt like a four to

978
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: six episode arc rival for Don, and then you'd go away.

979
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: That's what That's sort of what I thought when I

980
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 1: when I was watching you and watching you on the show,

981
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: I was like, God, that's so great. I think that's

982
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: more my feeling is like that was that was so great,

983
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: That was so awesome, what a great character. And then

984
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: just kind of kept feeling like you were not going

985
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: to be there for that log like you know what.

986
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: I'm not in like a bad way, but just like, oh,

987
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I what I expected the story

988
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: to be. And then and then I was just so

989
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: happy for you and obviously love the character and was

990
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: glad you were around. Well, Brian, this is this is

991
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: what I do. I show I show up on a

992
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 1: show as a guest star, and then I just sink

993
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: my hooks into him and I just charmed the pants

994
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: off of him and I and I won't let him

995
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: let me leave. I won't let them, you know. Paula

996
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: Malcolmson on on Deadwood. Uh, she she said to me that,

997
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, at this end of season one, Milts was

998
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: going to kill her character. He was she was supposed

999
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: to die at the end of season one. She went

1000
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: up to Milts and she's like, you're not killing me

1001
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: in her in her beautiful irishex and she ain't killing me.

1002
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: You can't kill me. You have to keep me. And

1003
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: he did. He was like he got scared of me,

1004
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 1: and he kept her. She lasted the whole whole whole series.

1005
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: I I there was a sense of that at first.

1006
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: You know, his cast is like two maybe three episodes

1007
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: and it was day stuff. Man I got. My first

1008
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: episode was one day. The next episode I did maybe

1009
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: a day and a half, two days, and then um,

1010
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 1: I think the first three or four episodes were day rates.

1011
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: It was like you come in for the day, here's

1012
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna pay you. There was no negotiation.

1013
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: There's mad men. It's like, yeah, I'll do whatever you want, man.

1014
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: And then there was there was a scene where I

1015
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: was still day I was still day playing or at

1016
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: least guest starring. And there's the scene where I've now

1017
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: I've I have Peggy. Peggy has come to work for me,

1018
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: and we have that scene where it's it's New Year's

1019
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: Eve and we're looking at the commercial and I walked

1020
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: into her office and they were like, look at each

1021
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: other a little longer, like like we look, we're looking

1022
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: at the cameras over here, and like, you know, we're

1023
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: looking down together. We look up and look at each

1024
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: other and look back down and they go just just

1025
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: linger on the look a little longer. And Lizzie and

1026
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: I are both like why, what's what's wrong with you?

1027
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: And they're like, just look at each other longer, Like

1028
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: you've done that since you have a relationship. Later we're

1029
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: setting up the relationship and I'm like, oh oh, And

1030
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: that was like to the end of the season, and

1031
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: I didn't have any commitment to be on. I was like, yes,

1032
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: look at her as long as long. And then they're

1033
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: like then they're like they're like too much, wrong, too

1034
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: much backing up? Wait, too much? Wait too much? No, no, no,

1035
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: that's now. Now you've ruined it. Now you've ruined it.

1036
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: Oh God, so good. So many shows you've been on

1037
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: that I watch actually too. Bates Motel was a fun

1038
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: one for me. Vera Farmiga so amazing, she's so briant,

1039
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: she's so there's there's a handful of actors I've worked with,

1040
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: and she's one of them. Lizabe Elizabeth Moss is another one,

1041
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: um Hams and also another one, uh tyme Daily another one.

1042
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: We're in a scene Mike coverage the cameras on me

1043
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: and I'm watching them act and they're so good it

1044
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: takes me out of the scene where I'm like, holy

1045
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: sh it, that's good. I should how wow, that's really good,

1046
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: Like this is what there's playing in my head. And

1047
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, shoot, I'm supposed to talk now.

1048
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: Um So Dawn uh, but seriously, vera. For me, it happened.

1049
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: There was a scene with her and Nestor and I

1050
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: in my office of Bates Hotel, two of them. She

1051
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: was sick like like this, like like had the fluish

1052
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: Wait before COVID, you could be sick on set. She

1053
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: was sick, like almost falling asleep in between takes, you know,

1054
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: like they give her some tea and she'd cuttle up

1055
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: and like take a little nap and um. But being

1056
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: the trooper that she is, she stayed. And now it's

1057
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: my coverage. Men, we've already shot her. She's done, so

1058
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: she could have gone home. They we could easily have

1059
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: a stand in read the lines for me and a

1060
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: lot of people would just go home at that point.

1061
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: She stayed and it's my coverage. And then she starts acting,

1062
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: and I'm like, holy shit, that it's not only different

1063
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: than what you did, but unique and specific to for me,

1064
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: that you're doing this and I'm the only person that

1065
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: gets to watch this right now. And I was like

1066
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Moss, same thing. There's a scene when I tell

1067
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: her I've decided that I'm I'm I'm going to California,

1068
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: and she's, you know, she says, you're she glad you

1069
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: get to make those decisions and uh and my coverage. Man,

1070
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: she she comes, she leaned into me and I was

1071
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: like literally, I was like, holy balls, that is amazing.

1072
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: That's so good. And I'm the only person that ever

1073
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: gets to see that that was for me. And then

1074
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: it's just a gift. It's what you know, it's what

1075
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: a scene partner is supposed to be. And but you

1076
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: don't always get that, you know, so when when you do,

1077
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: it's it's special and exciting. Yeah. I, Um, that's awesome

1078
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: to hear. That's so you can't I can't tell you

1079
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: how happy I am to hear that about her. I

1080
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: have not worked with her. Um you get mistaken for Spader? Yeah, yeah,

1081
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: not not as much anymore. Um, there used to be.

1082
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: There's Antonio's Pizza and the like I'm vent sure Boulevard

1083
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 1: and Sherman Oaks. I don't know if it's still there

1084
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: for the long For a long time, it was my

1085
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: head shot that I signed James Spader. We put it

1086
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: up when I first got to l A as this

1087
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: woman on a red carpet. I don't know how I

1088
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: was on this red carpet. I didn't had no business

1089
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: being there. It was for Volcano with Pierce Brazen and

1090
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: it was terrible. You know you'll never see it. Um.

1091
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: So we're I'm walking, I don't know how I'm on

1092
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: the red carpet. This woman James, James, James. I'm telling, like, James,

1093
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: fucking answer her already. And I turned around, like what

1094
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: She's like James pointing at me. I'm like, come here,

1095
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: come here. I walk over and I go, who do

1096
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: you think I am? She goes, You're James Spader and

1097
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: I go, I'm really not choose, just sign it, and

1098
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: I went all right, I signed James Spader and walked up.

1099
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: I was like sure. I was okay, I'm not gonna

1100
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: argue with you anymore. I know who I am. Um.

1101
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: But it was what was that? What was the what

1102
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: was his show with William Shatner? Of course, Boston Legal? No,

1103
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: Boston Legal, Yeah, Boston Legal. I had an audition. This

1104
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 1: is before I was a golfer. I had an audition

1105
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: to go play Julie Bowen's ex husband, like a two

1106
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: episode thing, to be her ex husband who was a

1107
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: professional golfer. And it was a nothing, It was a

1108
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: nothing part. It was like, I knew it wasn't gonna

1109
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: go anywhere. There was a guest spot that I was like,

1110
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: and I I James. We still looked enough alike that

1111
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: I was like, this is my moment. This is my

1112
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 1: Danny de Vito walking in. Who the funk wrote this moment?

1113
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: You know? You know that story? Um, this is my moment,

1114
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna walk. I walked. I drove. This is

1115
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: David Kelly Studios down in Manhattan Beach right, drive all

1116
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: the way down there, parked my car. I go in

1117
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: for the audition. Haven't even looked at the size. I

1118
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 1: haven't even looked. I'm not I'm not there to audition.

1119
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: And I walked. I wait my turn, And I walked

1120
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: into the casting and producer's room and they're casting, the

1121
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: producers theyre I'm like, hey, They're like, are you ready?

1122
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: I like, nope, that this is parts not for me,

1123
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: But I'm here to tell you that I should be

1124
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: Spader's brother. I've signed his autograph. We look alike. I

1125
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,280
Speaker 1: could be I could be some kind of drug addict

1126
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: or whatever I come to steal from him, But like,

1127
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 1: you should write a part for me where I am

1128
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: Spader's brother, and I'm expecting them to go, oh my god, yes,

1129
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: look at you. You just like him. Of course you're

1130
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: a young Spader. Silence, just dead silence, and they and

1131
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: then then then there's like I feel I feel the anger.

1132
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: They're like, are you fucking kidding me? And they look

1133
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: at me and they're like, so are you going to read?

1134
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: And I'm like no, I'm good. They thank you, and

1135
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, thanks a lot, guys, see it.

1136
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: I walk out and I was like, I never I

1137
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: never got an audition for those again, I never. I

1138
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: never got I never had an audition down there for

1139
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: like the next five years. They're like, I got a

1140
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: little little asterix next to my name and I was

1141
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: not called back. You should have called me. I would have.

1142
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: I would have put you in the office as Robert

1143
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: California's brother. Oh my god, how did I not? I

1144
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: should have been Robert California's brother. I think you would

1145
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: have at least gotten a laugh out of our crew.

1146
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if if it would have happened. Was

1147
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: Alison Jones still casting? Yes, al with Alison Jones, Yes,

1148
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: she would have got I would have got a laugh

1149
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: out with Alison because he at least she knows me. Yes, Um,

1150
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: so much, great work, love Victor, Madam Secretary. You worked

1151
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: with on Madam Secretary. I have to bring this up

1152
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: because we started with this. Guys that I worked with,

1153
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: I've totally lost touch. This is one of those things

1154
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: where he definitively will not remember me, but every time

1155
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: I see him, I get that same warm and fuzzy

1156
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: feeling in circa nineteen. There we're starting with a nineteen.

1157
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: It's early seven or some of you haven't been born yet.

1158
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: I had had a friend and who got a play

1159
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: at the New York Stage and Film Festival, and they

1160
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: have sort of a company of actors and I think

1161
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: that they're like a pick to come and do this play.

1162
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: Reading was Jelko Vane and I remember watching him for

1163
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: those I don't know, two weeks of working on this,

1164
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this guy is incredible. So

1165
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: he's another one that whenever I see him on anything,

1166
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: including Damages, which I watched which he won an Emmy for,

1167
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: he was great. He was great on Damages, so good

1168
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: on Damages. You enjoyed working with him? Oh, Jelko, Oh

1169
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: my god, he's another one. He's another one. Of those people.

1170
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: They're like, are you kidding me? He's small, he's not

1171
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: a big man. Then he's short, but he has a

1172
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: presence that is haunting when he wants when he needs

1173
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: to be, and terrifying when he needs to be. Has

1174
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,919
Speaker 1: hit his moment with this girl and the one scene

1175
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: in the oval office and he puts his hand up

1176
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: to her face in the scene like he's gonna rip

1177
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: her face off, and he got he I was watching

1178
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: was it was a masterclass and how to be big

1179
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: when you're not big, Like he had his arms up

1180
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: and he does this thing with this girl and she

1181
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: was towering over him. And this girl, the actual the

1182
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: person the actors melted. She was like terrified of this man.

1183
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: He's and he's and he and on top of that,

1184
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: the best part is he is the kindest, most unassuming, humble,

1185
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 1: sweet how's your family? How are you doing? You know,

1186
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: just like he and Tea I could. I would have

1187
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:38,919
Speaker 1: done that show for for as long as they would

1188
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: have had me. I would have I would have gladly

1189
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: done four or five more years about just they so lovely.

1190
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: Eric Stoltz was when the directing producers is a great

1191
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: as well. Um, just like another family atmosphere where everybody

1192
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: comes to work, to work hard, and it's gonna have fun.

1193
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: And here we're gonna do our best version of this

1194
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: and we're gonna go home Gore families, you know. Um,

1195
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: but she'll come. Man, he's a he's a stud. What

1196
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: a great dude. Another one, another one. I could just

1197
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: watch him in scenes likely ship. That's so cool. Um.

1198
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: I mean, your career is just it's amazing. I mean

1199
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: it truly is a dream. The variety of roles that

1200
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: you've been able to play. Literally, I do not have time.

1201
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm way too busy a person to talk about every

1202
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: show that you've ever been in. You have to go

1203
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: work on your chipping. I've got to go. Yeah, I've

1204
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: gotta go work on my golf. Um. And not only

1205
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: an amazing career, but also speaking of chipping a great humanitarian.

1206
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: One of these years, I'm going to do it. You

1207
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: have my pledge here. It's recorded for posterity. The rom

1208
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: Celebrity Golf Tournament. You give so much to St. Jude's.

1209
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: Talk to me about that, your passion for St. Jude's,

1210
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: how that came about, and your commitment through your golf

1211
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: tournament to them. My first ever job I told you

1212
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: earlier was that Everything's Relative show. That was a with

1213
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: Thomas production with Thomas as in Danny Thomas's son, Tony

1214
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: Thomas is the Thomas and with Thomas, and we pretty

1215
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: much shut with Thomas down. They did Soap, they did

1216
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: Golden Girls, and I shut the doors on them as well.

1217
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: I've shut the doors on a Minia show. I shut

1218
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: the doors on that hole person. That whole building went down. Man,

1219
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: we shut it down. Um, so I have that claim

1220
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: to fame. So I felt like I owe the Thomas

1221
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: family something by shutting those doors. So that was my

1222
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: first connection with St. Jude. And then you know, I

1223
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: I met Patrick and Patrick started his tournament now twelve

1224
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: years ago. Patrick Warburton started his tournament twelve years ago,

1225
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: I believe now. And Clark Rainy, who runs Patrick's tournament.

1226
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: Clark called me about five years ago and said, hey,

1227
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: we want to do an East Coast version of this

1228
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: and we want you to be the namesake. And I said, well, okay,

1229
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: and my wife was on the phone. We were going

1230
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: somewhere where I put my works on speaker with me,

1231
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: and I said, so clearly you've gotten to the rs

1232
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: in your Rollodex, and no one else was stupid enough

1233
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: to say, yes, are you kidding me? Like you want

1234
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 1: me to go to Florida where I don't have any

1235
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: family or no anyone where I'm at to have people

1236
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: fly across country. I knew that we could do it,

1237
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: and I was excited to try. And I once you

1238
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: go to that hospital, um, you will, you will do

1239
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: anything you can to support to support it. It's a

1240
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: It's a special place for many many reasons. Uh, the

1241
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: least of which is that they're trying to keep kids

1242
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: from dying of cancer. That is the least of which

1243
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: it is amazing. They share all their research, everything's free.

1244
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: It's also interesting that in the nineteen fifties Danny Thomas

1245
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: decided to do it in Memphis, Tennessee and took everyone

1246
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: regardless of color, creed, or religion, which is a big

1247
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: deal at the time. Uh So, there's there's a lot

1248
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: of reasons that played that places. It's and it's it's hopeful.

1249
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: I don't like hospitals. My mom was a nurse. There

1250
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: was a lot of death in my family, so I

1251
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: don't like being around hospitals in general. And um, this

1252
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: place feels different. It just it feels people were walking

1253
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: around there with smiles in their faces, and there's there's hope.

1254
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: There's hope there. And so I would do anything I

1255
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: could to help and so and I'm proud my name's

1256
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: on it. It's awesome. Thank you for your generosity and

1257
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: your work. I want you to know, you know, we

1258
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: don't see each other very often, but it is always

1259
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: so so my pleasure. Thank you so much for joining

1260
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: me and before I feel the same way, Brian. I

1261
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: feel the same way, man, And like I think the

1262
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: last time we r indo each other was at the

1263
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: at the BMW like four or five years ago. And

1264
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: every time I see you on those tournaments on TV

1265
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: play and I get so excited. Other people I'm like,

1266
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: how the fund did that guy get an invite at

1267
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: the tournament? Every time I see you, I'm excited you

1268
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: you deserve it. You're a good guy. I'm proud of you. Uh.

1269
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: And I was again one more apology. I was so

1270
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: wrong about the office. It was really good. It was

1271
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: really really good. You were amazing. Uh, Steve turns out,

1272
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: Correl turns out, Correll, you can it could be an

1273
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: American office. It turns out, no, I didn't know it

1274
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: was wrong. I was wrong. I admitted, I admitted freely.

1275
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: I apologize for the condescension. Um, you and your two

1276
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: houses and your private golf club membership and deserve it. Um.

1277
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: Let me let me just say this. Let me just

1278
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: say this. I am very very glad you were wrong

1279
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: as well. Thank you, Thank you so much, Kevin. My pleasure,

1280
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: My pleasure, Kevin, Thank you so much. This was such

1281
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: a treat. Congratulations again for all you are doing for St. Jude's.

1282
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: And yes, I will join you on the course next year.

1283
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: I truly mean that. Thanks so much for your time

1284
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: and well your deep diviness and listeners. Make sure to

1285
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: catch us on Thursday this week for a sports edition

1286
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: of Off the Beat. I will also be back at

1287
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: it next Tuesday. One might call it double the Fun,

1288
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: double the magic, double the me. Basically, I just coined

1289
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: a catchphrase, maybe I'm going to talk to you soon.

1290
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me

1291
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are

1292
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our

1293
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary and our intern is

1294
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by

1295
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed

1296
01:06:47,360 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: by seth O Landscape m