1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul Swinge. You, 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma wits each day 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. Well, President Donald Trump threatened to 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: regulate or shutter social media companies, a warning apparently aimed 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: at Twitter after it began fact checking his tweets. Lots 10 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: of questions in the marketplace. That's knocking in part, knocking 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: down the nast back off about one point eight percent today. 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: The question is can the president do that? Jim Anderson, 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: CEO of Social Flow, based in New York City, has 14 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: some answers for social Flow and full disclosure. Social Flow 15 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: is a platform used by Bloomberg for social media purposes. Jim, 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. So an interesting 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: response by the President to the fact checking that was 18 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: instituted by Twitter. I guess the basic question is what 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: can there does it really do well? It's a great, 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: great question, Paul, I mean there's so much to unpack 21 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: in this story. I guess the first thing I'll say 22 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: is that Twitter's labeled of President Trump's tweets were around 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: the tweets about baloting by mail, not the conspiracy about 24 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: that Joe Scarborough having had something to do with the 25 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: death of a former staffer. And and that's an interesting distinction, 26 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: because so much of the energy yesterday was around, oh goodness, 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: this is a terrible tweet. How could President Trump do this? 28 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: What's Twitter gonna do? And and notably, they did not 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: do anything. They didn't play for that tweets, they didn't 30 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: remove it, they didn't do anything. They instead focused on 31 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: an area around mail and balancing, which is its own 32 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: set of controversy. So that's the first thing I would notice. 33 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: I think they felt like they were on more solid 34 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: ground with the mail in balloting than they were about 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: the Joe Scarborough, which I'm struggling to understand. What Twitter is. 36 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Is it a media platform? Well, it is a platform, 37 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: I think, you know, you sort of wrapped up in 38 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: that question is what is a media platform? What is 39 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: the company? And certainly you've seen Facebook and Twitter both 40 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: say they are not media companies, and they certainly don't 41 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: fit the traditional definition. You know, they don't. The FCC 42 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: doesn't define them as a media company. They don't print 43 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,559 Speaker 1: a newspaper. But that being said, those are both amazingly 44 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: successful advertising sales platforms. That's not how we normally as 45 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: consumers think about them. We think about the Twitter or 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: the Facebook experience. But you know, they derive almost acent 47 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: of their revenue from advertising. So if you define media 48 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: platform as one that sells advertising, well then they certainly 49 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: fit that definition. I think part of what we're all 50 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: wrestling with is that they're not They're not like anything 51 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: we've historically had when it comes to radio and television 52 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: and newspapers. There's there's something really different. So I guess 53 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: it kind of makes a question, what, ultimately do you 54 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: think the responsibility is of the facebooks of the world 55 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: and the Twitters of the world and the other social 56 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: media companies who in large part just you know, it's 57 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: user generated content. Do they have a responsibility to fact check? Well, 58 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: they have a responsibility to society, I'll say responsibility to 59 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: fact check. You know that the challenge with fact checking is, 60 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, we would all love to think that facts 61 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: are wonderfully objective things, and in some cases they are right. 62 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: It's it's Wednesday today in New York City, at least 63 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: it may be a different day, and if you go 64 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: across the date line, etcetera. But we're not talking about 65 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: those kinds of objective facts. We're talking about conspiracy theories 66 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: and in you into and all you really need to 67 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: do is turn on any of the other more traditional media, 68 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: turn on television, and depending on the channel in which 69 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: you consume your news, you're gonna get very very different answers. 70 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: So I think it's a very slippery slope for the 71 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: platforms to start getting into fact checking. And I think, 72 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's tough to understand how yesterday's decisions 73 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: by Twitter to label two of Donald Trump's tweets is 74 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: going to turn out well for them. I mean, you 75 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: already saw the blowback from him and from his campaign, 76 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: and I suspect they're going to get a tremendous amount 77 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: of criticism. Um And so it's a it's almost a 78 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: no win situation for the platforms to say, hey, I'm 79 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to be the one who does the fact 80 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: check and I'm going to label or or remove content 81 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: doesn't meet my standards. Well, and I guess the other 82 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: side of this story is Facebook, And there was a 83 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: report in the Wall Street Journal yesterday about how even 84 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: Facebook's own experts found that, yes, the platform has actually 85 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: enhanced divisions in the country and across the world and 86 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: sort of created an increased partisanship, and that the platform 87 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: could do something about it, but chose not to because 88 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: ultimately it drove traffic. That was a business decision, and 89 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: it seems in contrast to what Twitter is doing. Should 90 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: Facebook be rewarded for that, at least with respect to 91 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: shares and with respect to the way that it's perceived, 92 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: given the fact that it does have some social responsibility, 93 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: but it also has a responsibility twits shareholders. Yeah, it's interesting. 94 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: I read that same article and I've I've seen commentary 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: about that, and you know, I think anybody objectively, you 96 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: don't have to be inside of Facebook to note that 97 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: it can be used for divisive topics and tends to, 98 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: at least in some cases and ease polarization. Um, you know, 99 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: saying that they did it curry for their business interests. Yes, 100 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: they do have an obligation to their their shareholders, but 101 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: I think there's a missing piece of that, which is 102 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: once they start doing that, especially if they talk about 103 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: how they're going to start policing speech or fact checking 104 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: or uh, you know, removing contents. I mean, they's a 105 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: remarkably splicy, slippery slope. And again I'm going to go 106 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: back to the no win scenario. The minute they start 107 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: talking about doing that, they get highlighted for being inconsistent, 108 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: being unfair, manipulating elections, you know, all kinds of things 109 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: like that that, yes, will hurt their business, but also 110 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: I think they're just a very untenable position for them, 111 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the reasons why you 112 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: saw Facebook go down the route of creating effectively what 113 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: they like to call their Supreme Court um, which is 114 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: some a non Facebook controlled body that will help them 115 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: be the sort of the arbitr of these types of decitions. 116 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: But like any supreme court, like our U S. Supreme Court, 117 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: these this arbitration and these decisions happen well well after 118 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: the fact. I mean these we're talking years down the road, 119 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: I would imagine, before these kinds of things get hashed out. So, uh, Jim, 120 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: I mean TV extent, there is some movement to regulate 121 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: some of the social media platforms. Is it something that 122 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: would come from the Federal Communications Commission or the courts? 123 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: How would it even be affected? Do you think, Yeah, 124 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: it's a great question. I mean you're talking significant jurisdictional issues, 125 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: but I don't immediately jump to the jurisdictional issues. I've 126 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: gone to the politics of it. Right, So it's politically, uh, 127 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: sort of advantageous for President Trump right now to talk 128 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: about regulating the platforms. But you know, historically Republicans and 129 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: Conservatives have not been heavy on regulations. So you sort 130 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: of getting what the headlines are, which is, you know, 131 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: somebody saying we should regulate these platforms, and then the 132 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: devil is truly of the details. You know, do you 133 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: really expect a Republican president of Republican control Senate, got 134 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: a Democratic House. Do we expect you know, sort of 135 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: bipartisan consensus to come uh, in terms of how those 136 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: platforms are regulated, I will say, I mean it is 137 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: interesting they get criticized from both fines. Right, You've got 138 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: Democrats criticizing these platforms for sort of one set of issues, 139 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Republicans can criticizing for a related set of issues, coming 140 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: at it from very different signs. So there is bipartisan 141 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: um agitation, for lack of a better word, whether that 142 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: emerges in consensus, in which agencies, or how that regulation 143 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: will play out. I think that, you know, it's going 144 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: to be years in the making, and probably antitrust is 145 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: the most likely issue to really come to the four 146 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: at least for facebooks, not so much for Twitter. Jim Anderson, 147 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much for weighing in. Jim Manderson, chief 148 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: executive officer of Social Flow in New York and just 149 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: for full disclosure of Social Flow is a platform used 150 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: by Bloomberg for social media purposes. Interesting to see the 151 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: reaction in shares on Twitter, the response to President Trump's request, 152 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: or basically his his criticism of Twitter. Some people were saying, 153 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: we'll sell Twitter shares, and then other people were saying 154 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: quickly that they would buy them. It became a partisan 155 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: issue whether you bought or sold Twitter shares, and I 156 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: guess that the conclusion today, Paul has been self for now. 157 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: I guess that's right. Yeah, interesting, it would be I 158 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: think just really a can of worms here, so, uh, 159 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's a really difficult thing to 160 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: manage and too for these social media companies free speech. 161 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: We are approaching the summer and then the fall when 162 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: students return to college campuses around the country, except that 163 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: this year there's a high likelihood that they will not 164 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: be doing so, which raises a question of whether parents 165 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: really want to be paying and students themselves want to 166 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: be taking out loans to pay colleges when they cannot 167 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: get the full college experience. Joining us now to discuss 168 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: this and what the future is for higher education in 169 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: general is Robert kelch In, Associate professor of the Department 170 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: of Education, Leadership, Management, and Policy at Seton Hall University, 171 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: as well as Janet Lauren, Endowment's reporter for Bloomberg News. Robert, 172 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: I want to start with you, how big of an 173 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: existential threat is COVID nineteen and the likelihood that many 174 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: campuses will not open in the fall to higher education. 175 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: It's a serious risk to many college campuses because students 176 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: may not pay as much intuition, and colleges that have 177 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: students living on campus won't get that incredibly important revenue 178 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: from room and board. So, Jennet, let's put this into 179 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: maybe financial perspective a little bit. Here. A lot of 180 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: this big universities with multibillion dollar downmands, they're likely to 181 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: be able to weather this pandemic risk better than others. 182 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about the secondary and even smaller colleges 183 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: and universities. How at risk do you think they are 184 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: from an economic perspective. Well, before we get to the 185 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: second tier colleges, just don't forget that. Harvard also said 186 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: that they all they have a one point two billion 187 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: dollar budget deficit over to some two um academic years, 188 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: and Northwestern also talked about its budget deficits. So it's 189 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 1: the biggest colleges with the biggest endowments are not necessarily immune. Uh. 190 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: These are the schools that quickly paid out room and 191 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: board refunds. Uh. And we've also seen that colleges have 192 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: had to cancel somewhat lucrative summer programs which helped fill 193 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: their campuses. So that's one step. You know, most colleges 194 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: are not going to be immune to anything. And certainly 195 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: the second tier colleges UM, you know, they're they're having 196 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: to think about who's going to be coming to fill 197 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: their classes. As the top tier colleges, you know, take 198 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: other kids off the waitlist, the second tier colleges may 199 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: find that the kids that they thought were coming in 200 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: in the fall may not be there. And certainly, tuition 201 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: revenue is a huge part of most college budgets. Certainly 202 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: the wealthiest colleges like a Princeton Amherst College, more than 203 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: half of their budgets come from endowment um investment income. However, 204 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: most schools are very reliant on tuition to make their budgets. Robert, 205 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: there's a question here, how much is this going to 206 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: be a temporary shock for universe these particularly the ones 207 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: that have more robust endowments and are better weathered or 208 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: sort of hunker down to weather this storm. And how 209 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: much does this shift the whole conversation around higher education 210 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: where we've seen incredible inflation of the tuition bills over time, 211 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: and you mean, this is a lot of people saying 212 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: maybe we need to rethink this and some of these 213 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: colleges don't need to exist in the short term. This 214 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: put some incredible pressure on colleges to hold a line 215 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: on tuition even as they're spending more money to get 216 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: college campuses ready for students in the full world. Will 217 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: many colleges go out of business from this? The answer 218 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: is probably not that many it'll be small private colleges 219 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: serving a few hundred students, but most public colleges will 220 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: go on even if they're hit hard by losses and 221 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: state funding, and most midsized private colleges will find a 222 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: way through, even though it would be a difficult few 223 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: years to come. Jennet, we've seen some big, big universities, UM, 224 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, Harvard, Brown, m I, t H coming to 225 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: the bond market. How how has higher education generally been 226 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,599 Speaker 1: received in the credit markets and kind of how's the 227 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: outlook today for some of these institutions. Well, these schools 228 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: are still very highly rated, they have very high demand, 229 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: and they're taking advantage of low interest rates UM, and 230 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: there chances are the the institutions you just named are 231 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: going to continue to be around for a very long time. So, 232 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, I think there's still been demand for that 233 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: debt um, you know, considering where their market position is. Robert, 234 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: do you think that online education should cost the same 235 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: amount as the in person type? Online education will end 236 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: up costing about the same amount unless a college can 237 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: get up to massive scale because you're still interacting with faculty. 238 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: Good technology is expensive. You don't have some of the 239 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: in person facilities, but the tuition price ends up typically 240 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: being about the same for good online versus good in 241 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: person education. That's kind of shocking to me because I 242 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: would think that the classroom, the the amount of people 243 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: that could potentially be a participant in the online course, 244 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: the overhead seems like it would be a lot less. 245 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: Why am I wrong? Most of the overhead here is people, 246 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: And if you want interaction between students and professors, you 247 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: need faculty to do that, and good technology for learning 248 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: management systems and working with students online is also expensive. 249 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: Although there are returns if you can get large class 250 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: or large universities doing this, like an Arizona State, but 251 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: most smaller colleges doing this for one or two semesters 252 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: just won't see that economy of scale. Jenet. Can any 253 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: of the I'm thinking more about the private colleges and universities. 254 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: Can they expect any support in terms of fiscal support 255 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: fiscal stimulus UM the government. Well, we've already seen UM 256 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: universities such as you know, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford saying they 257 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: were declining, you know, to accept their share of federal 258 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: stimulus stimulus money early on. You know, mid a lot 259 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: of criticism. UM. I also did a story about the 260 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: p p P money that some uh, small colleges, we're 261 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: not sure if they were allowed to apply for it 262 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: because of the requirement on workers and their student student 263 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: workers had been counted even though you know they had 264 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: all gone home. UM. So you know, depending on if 265 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: the smaller colleges um do uh you know, meet the 266 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: threshold for employees, they could get some money from the 267 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: p p P, you know, because they really are small businesses. 268 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: Robert Kelchin, thank you so much for joining us. Robert Kelchin, 269 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: Associate pressor, Professor, the Partner of Education Leadership Management Policy 270 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: at Seton Hall University UH in New Jersey and China. 271 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: Lauren a Downance reporter for Bloomberg News on the phone, 272 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: really fascinating discussion there. I would think I kind of 273 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: agree with you, Lisa. I would think just intuitively, there 274 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: would be a discount for online versus being on campus. Yeah, 275 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to pray for that. I mean, it sounds 276 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: like that's not going to be the case. And honestly, 277 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: it's good to have people paid for what they offer. Still, 278 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: as a parent, the idea of having a little bit 279 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: of deflation in that intuition payments not the worst thing 280 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: in the world. I do want to bring you this 281 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: headline crossing that the US will not certify Hong Kong's autonomy. 282 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: That's basically throws into question whether that region will continue 283 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: to get special trading status, sort of first step to 284 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: dessertisfying them again. Paul, though this the question in my 285 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: mind is who will that hurt more? The U s 286 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: for Beijing, the people in Hong Kong. Yeah, we're coming 287 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: back to that discussion that that we've had prior to 288 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: the pandemic. It's about the trade wars and who really 289 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: gets hurt the most. Who can weather a disruption in 290 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: the relationship more the US are China. Looks like we're 291 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: about to find out on a bit different front. About 292 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: a month ago, Paul, everyone was talking about the transformation 293 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: in the way that we've viewed society on the heels 294 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen, and that particularly applied to the auto industry, 295 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: where sales have plunged and are expected to plunge by 296 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: twenty per cent. Is that really accurate though? How much 297 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: will we see permanent changes to the auto industry as 298 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: a result of the pandemic? Kevin Tynan has been following 299 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: the senior autos analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, Kevin, what's your 300 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: take here? Are there permanent changes they're going to take 301 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: hold of the auto industry as a result of the pandemic? 302 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: I think so? Um, you know, but I don't think 303 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: it's structural in the way that two thousand and eight 304 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: two tho nine was. I think there will be improvements 305 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: to processes, and whether that's at the manufacturing level or 306 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: at the retail sales level. That that I would say 307 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: this crisis sort of accelerated. But but you know, in 308 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: terms of a tear down and rebuild of the entire 309 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: automotive process from the build to the sale, you know, 310 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit overstated, So Kevin, I 311 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, one point before the pandemic, there was a 312 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: reasonable discussion about whether we as a US society had 313 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: reached peak auto, you know, with Uber another ride sharing companies, UH, 314 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: the fact that more and more young people were moving 315 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: to urban centers where they can depend more on mass transportation. 316 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: There was really a debate about peak auto in this country. 317 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: Where do you think we are as it relates to that, 318 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: How do you think about long term auto demand in 319 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: this country, Yeah, I think, you know, and looking at 320 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: the numbers in terms of vehicle registrations by state, which 321 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: is something I was just you know, I was just 322 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: compiling that data, and you know, there is a definitive 323 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: trend to less private vehicle ownership and that's over you know, 324 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: a decade or so. Um, you know, in terms of 325 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: the fear of mass transit or the fear of ride hailing. 326 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, there's probably some temporary effect 327 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: of that, but at the same time, I don't think 328 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna get private vehicle ownership and storage and repair 329 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: and maintenance and insurance for people that live in urban areas. 330 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense, you know. And I just 331 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: looked at it total cost of ownership on a new vehicle, 332 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: which is roughly about thirty eight nine thou dollars over 333 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: five years all in on the cost is about nineties 334 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So, uh, you know, it just doesn't make 335 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: sense for for that sort of structural shift to private 336 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: vehicle ownership for a lot of cities, uh and people. 337 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: So so maybe a little bit and maybe for a 338 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: short term, but over the longer stretch, I think that 339 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: move away from vehicle ownership is probably going to continue. Greg, 340 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: Jared has a question for you. He wants to pick 341 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: up a cheap car on the Hurts liquidation that we've 342 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: all been expecting, given the fact that they've filed for bankruptcy. 343 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: Are we going to see that? Yeah, you know, and 344 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: I've looked at this and I don't think and I 345 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: get this question a lot obviously since Friday. Um, Look, 346 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it affects the new vehicle market. Right. 347 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: These are off rental vehicles, so maybe there's a little 348 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: bit of an impact and residual value in the pre 349 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: owned market. But I would even argue that the pre 350 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: owned buyer. Uh maybe there's a small subsegment or a 351 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: niche of that market that may be an off rental buyer, 352 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: but pre owned buyers are probably going to gravitate more 353 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: to the off lease a little bit higher quality, a 354 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: little higher technology, better equipped vehicles than you know, sort 355 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: of this rental car uh dump. But I see that, 356 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: as you know, the lowest end of the of the 357 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: pre owned market where buyers would be. So I don't 358 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: see it causing a ripple all the way up to 359 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: the new vehicle market. Kavin just give us a sense 360 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: of the relative health from a bounce seat liquidity perspective 361 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: of the big US automakers right now. Yeah, liquidity seems 362 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: to be okay in terms of how long we think 363 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: the downturn less and again very different than oh eight 364 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: oh nine, which started as really a banking crisis and 365 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: credit markets were frozen. You couldn't bet a mortgage, you 366 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: couldn't get a car loan. This is not that the 367 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: automo makers couldn't take down any you know, any additional liquidity. 368 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: So this isn't really that And I think, you know, 369 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: we're looking at you know, the consensus for May is 370 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: already back to a ten, which is funny almost to say, 371 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: but from you know, in eight six to a ten 372 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: in a month, if that's the beginning of the trend 373 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: of recovery, uh, it would seem to say that the 374 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: worst is behind. So if this is the inflection point 375 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: which was April, you know, then I would say that 376 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: that there should be no issues going forward in terms 377 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: of liquidity on the balance sheet for for the large automakers. Kevin, 378 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate that update 379 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: on the auto industry. Kevin Tynan, He's the senior auto's 380 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's been covering the auto industry 381 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: for decades at least. It's just some anecdotal evidence. I 382 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: was uh meeting with a buddy mine last weekend who 383 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: manages an auto dealership, and he kind of confirmed, uh, 384 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: what Kevin was saying that kind of that March April 385 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: time frame was the trough there because they weren't able 386 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: to even have anybody into their dealership. Now they're booking appointments. Uh, 387 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: and and these said sales are running about of normal, 388 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: which was a big improvement from that March April time frame, 389 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: So hoping that can continue. There is some pent up 390 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: demand out there. He was saying, people were buying cars, 391 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: they are leasing cars, uh, just at obviously reduced rape. 392 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: But in terms of the trough, it seems to have 393 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: been hit in March and April. So you know, if 394 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: that is in fact the case, maybe the auto industry 395 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: had kind of weather the storm here and may do 396 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: a little bit better than say, uh, you know, some 397 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: of the cruise lines or some of the airlines of 398 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: some of the other consumer facing businesses that likely will 399 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: have to deal with a longer rebound than maybe some 400 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: other industries. Well, do you do sports gambling? I do not. Okay, 401 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: that doesn't surprise me. Evidently the people who do a 402 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: sports gambling have migrated over to the stock market, and 403 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: we've heard this reported increasingly. There was actually a great 404 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: story looking at that in the Financial Times with some 405 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: data about brokerage accounts and what we're seeing, which really 406 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: raises a question about the sentiment in the retail sector. Sure, 407 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: the betters, but also mom and pop investors who are 408 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: looking at the wild swings and wondering what to make 409 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: of it. Joining us now, someone with a front row 410 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: seat to that sentiment, Julia carl Carlson, founder and chief 411 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: executive officer of Financial Freedom Wealth Management Group, joining us 412 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: from Newport, Oregon. Julia, we're so glad to have you 413 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: on the show. Really important to get a sense of 414 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: the retail component, especially since a lot of people are 415 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 1: saying that this aspect of the market is accounting for 416 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: a greater proportion of the sentiment right now than others. 417 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: Can you give us a sense of the retail client 418 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: that you deal with and where their mind is at 419 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, thanks for having me, Lisa and Paul. 420 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: You know clients what I am feeling are calmer now. 421 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: And I think this definitely is perspective on where you 422 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: are at in the country. We are in organ it's 423 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: rule and I think given the magnitude of the rally 424 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: that's happened off of the March twenty three lows, clients 425 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: are actually pleasantly surprised looking at their account values. And 426 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 1: I think some of the some of our clients that 427 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: chose not to look back in March and we're you know, 428 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: either fearful or just saying I'm gonna just not watch. 429 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: When we say encourage them to go in and look, 430 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: it's really not that bad. They do look and they're like, wow, 431 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: I am surprised. So we are seeing Um. I would 432 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: say the best word for it is a sense of 433 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: calmness out there. It's interesting enjoy a sense of calmness 434 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: here in the financial markets with Lee, Lise and I 435 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: often comment that you know a little bit of surprise 436 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: in how the market has rebounded off of the bottom 437 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: um given some of the dire economic news that we 438 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: get in terms of jobless claims and GDP princes and 439 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. Has your clients and are 440 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: they were they on kind of the risk curve here. 441 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: As you talk to them, I will are they willing 442 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: to take take on a little bit more risk, maybe 443 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: shift from bonds into equities, or maybe get a little 444 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 1: bit more further out on the risk curve for some 445 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: of their investments. Well, I don't know if we I 446 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: would say adding risk at this point, but we definitely 447 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: when the market was um low, we were rebalancing, and 448 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: so they were they and putting into positions where they 449 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: were putting them the position to capture more of the 450 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: upside as it recovered. And so I would say, no, 451 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: we're not adding risk because most of our clients are 452 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: in retirement. They want they've built their wells, they want 453 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: that more moderate portfolio that aren't going to be, you know, 454 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: subject to these wild swings. And although we do feel 455 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: very confident in the long term opportunity and equities that 456 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: that those remain attractive, especially compared to the alternative like 457 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: cash or fixed income, we're not we're not necessarily willing 458 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: to say let's add risk at this point because most 459 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: likely there may be a pullback here in the shorter term. 460 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: I wonder if sixty forty still works given how low 461 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: bond fields are Are you still recommending that kind of 462 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: allocation to bonds as a hedge. Well, I would say yes, 463 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: we are in line in alignment with a sixty forty, 464 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: although we don't expect a lot from that forty moving forward. 465 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: It's more for that stability and peace of mind part 466 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: of the portfolio. So joy we saw bank Rate came 467 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: out with a study recently that about of working or 468 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: recently unemployed adults with retirement savings have either tapped into 469 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: or planned to tap into the retirement funds as an 470 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: immediate source of income because of the pandemic. Have you 471 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: seen that from your client base? You know, we haven't. 472 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: When I read that statistic, I was wondering, what was 473 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: the statistic before all this happened, and but it sounds 474 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: like it's it's in regards to you know, the people 475 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: that have lost their jobs or have been um on unemployment. 476 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: I mean, for the most part, even our clients that 477 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: are still working, they're spending less. And our clients that 478 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: are in retirement are actually stopping their r m d 479 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: s because they can, and they are reducing that monthly 480 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: income just because they're not traveling. They're not out, uh, 481 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: spending the money that they were, you know, three or 482 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: four short months ago. Just looking forward, What are you 483 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: looking for in order to advise your clients perhaps to 484 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: take a little risk off the table and temper their 485 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: expectations for the year. Well, I think that the amount 486 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: of stimulus that's come into not only now in the US, 487 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: but worldwide. You know, I think that that is what 488 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: we're seeing in the in the stock market rallies and 489 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: I but we're also I think pricing in that we 490 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: are going back to work, that we will get a vaccine. 491 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: We're pricing in all of these perfect scenarios that um, 492 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: you know, there's going to be something that rocks about 493 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: and and comes in and and has a pullback. So 494 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: I we always recommend that you stay invested per your 495 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: risk profile, per your or um financial objective, and wouldn't 496 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: necessarily say let's add risk um because there is still 497 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: uncertainty and how this will all play out. Julia, thanks 498 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. We appreciate your perspective. Julia Carlson, 499 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: founder and CEO Financial Freedom Wealth Management, located in a 500 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: beautiful Newport, Oregon, right on the coast. They're beautiful part 501 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: of the country. Kind of saying, stay the course here. Um, 502 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: you know, the rebound has been pronounced coming off of 503 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: that initial sell off, but the joy was suggesting, you know, 504 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: stay the course. There's certainly could be some more volatility, 505 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: but certainly stay invested. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg 506 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: P and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to 507 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. 508 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa 509 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: abram Woyds. I'm on Twitter at Lisa A. Bramwoits one 510 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide. I'm 511 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio