WEBVTT - Spike Lee / "BlacKkKlansman" 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:17.720 M m m. You're listening to playback a Variety I 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:21.360 Heart Radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety of Awards editor 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.600 Chris Tapley. This week, we're in the Big Apple talking 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.480 to a king on these streets, the legendary director Spike Lee. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.639 We discussed his new film Black Klansman, The World Leader. 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.159 He calls Agent Orange and a whole lot more. So, 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:54.400 Sit tight, this is playback. Sorry about that game last night, man, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.920 ye need too, I need to bring up at the top. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.279 But while you was well, no, no, i'm not, I'm not. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:07.240 I'm not, I'm not. I'm just checking, just checking. If anything. 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.120 Maybe I'm a bravest fan from my youth. But uh yeah, 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.840 that was a bummer. Sorry. I know you were up there. 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.240 Did you have a good time at least have some 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.520 drinks or something. I don't know, there's nothing good about Yes, yeah, 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.440 I understand. Well I appreciate you doing this. Man, no problem. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.479 We're already up and running, so I'm gonna dive in. 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.360 We're here in the People's Republic of Brooklyn. Yes, here 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.680 was Spike Lee in the house. Yes, I'm so. This 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.840 is the coolest production company I've ever been to. Man, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.400 I love all the stuff you got on the Walls Museum. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.320 It's great, like I could just hang out here. I'm 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.120 looking around as I'm talking, so it's lovely. Thank you 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.640 for here, No, thank you for coming, they for coming 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.640 to the People's Republic of Brooklyn, New York. I was 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.840 finally able to get out of the city, which was nice. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.000 I haven't been out of there the whole week. So anyway, 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.240 here we are. Uh, you know, I was. I did 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.760 the math. You're you're incredibly prolific, obviously, and I did 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.240 the math. In the last thirty three years, only nine 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.440 years have we not had a Spike Lee joint, which 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:06.960 you don't want to feature film, feature film, I mean 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.880 obviously doing all kinds of other stuff, commercials. Yeah, but 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.799 what keeps you going at that rate? That's my first question. Well, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:17.440 from the very big thank you to the question every 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.400 beginning that the goal was the bill of a body 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:20.960 of work. I don't want to not want to be 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.960 one of these flash in the pan where they now 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.720 that type of thing, because I've always felt that to 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:34.880 really a praise somebody's work, it can't be if they 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.320 only did one album, one film, one play, one novel. 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.200 I want to see you know what they did over 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.440 a span of time. So that's that was the goal 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.360 from the beginning, even in film school. That's that's where 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.919 that that's what that was the mindset. So you think 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.360 in terms of legacy, for sure, I wouldn't use that word. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.200 I like that you that you may use that word, 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:02.120 but I see its body of work. Body of work. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.160 Are there any like did you did you model yourself 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:08.680 after anything in that way? Was there were there any 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.960 artists filmmakers that you look and you say, wow, that 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:16.079 the body that that person left behind. Miles Davis, John Coltrane, 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:21.440 Michael Jackson, Prince, you know, they they I was born 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.160 fifty seven, they were born the eight so they had 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.400 a head start on me. But you know, God blessed 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.560 their souls. But James Brown, Yeah, I mean those are 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.080 the people, you know, James Ball, went, Tony Morrison, those 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:41.320 you know, those are my pantheon in sports, Jordan Ali, 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:47.480 Willie Mays. Those that's that's my my, my, my pantheon. 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.080 We can put Spike Lee in there too. I think 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.160 you take vacations though, Man, do you have any down 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.360 I just came from I was in a this this 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:06.480 past Columbus christiph Columbus terrorists, Holiday Day, Holliday terrorist? What 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.440 was the Mamas venue? So I was in Boston the 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:16.480 game too, came back. Yes, they barely made it in 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.920 time for for the fiasco last night and I left 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.279 at the bottom, the fifth in it. So I left. 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.440 It was ten one, so I went to bed, I 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.479 had to beer, went to bed. And then when I 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.200 woke up this morning, I saw the final score was six? 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:39.479 Can we cursing us one? What the fuck? I didn't 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:40.960 know that was happening. Man. I got home and I 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:42.240 was like, well, I know Spike was at the game. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.920 I'll meet you. Oh man, he's not gonna be happy tomorrow. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:51.200 That was That was brutal then and then and it 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.920 happened against the Red Sox makes even worse. So tonight's 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.320 do would die? You would die in the Bronx? Good luck? Man. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.120 I have a bunch of questions, but let's dive into 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.839 Black Clansman first. And I took this film to can 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:06.520 You want the Grand Prix there? And I just want 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:07.919 to know what your experience was like over there? And 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.680 can Oh what was amazing. I've always had a good, 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:15.240 a great time in can and and and even what 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.960 happened in nine do the right thing that was on 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.880 the jury that was not on my I mean the jury, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:29.880 the reception there, the way that people received the film. 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:35.159 So I've always had exquisite time and can congratulations on 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.600 that prize. Man, that was great. We're pulling for you. 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.400 You uh you know late last year you signed on 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.200 to this project and went into production. It was in 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.560 the wake of the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally I believe, 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.039 which was August, and then we reported it in September. Anyway, 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.200 you were already on I guess see what happened was 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:58.880 it gave me the timeline and elation of the reception. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.039 I got everything out of whack, and it is my 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:07.680 fault because I got it mixed up. We didn't start 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:13.160 shooting until after Charlottesville. That was August twelve. We didn't 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.160 start to miss September, and can I got I said, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.960 I made a mistake that said that, uh we started 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.800 shooting before August twelve, that that was wrong? Right? Well, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.520 did had you signed on to the project after Charlotte? 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.320 Oh yeah, we're in pre production. Okay, when four we 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.159 have pre production? Because what I wanted to ask was 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.239 if that spurred you to want to do this project. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.840 But I guess no, no, no, no, we preproduction when 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.360 I happened, well when that fact, that was a month 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.280 venue when that happened. Yeah, but when that obviously the 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.320 film builds to an epilogue centered on that a little bit. Um, 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.120 just when that happened in the middle of the pre production, 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.240 how did that kind of shift you're thinking about this project? 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.400 I knew I had ended. Yeah, I knew that David Duke, 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:03.600 Agent Orange, all right, the Clan Neil motherfucking Nazis had 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.960 written me ending. But again at the expense of a 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:22.240 human life. Yeah, the air its just went on eighty 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.640 degrees here in New York. Um global the global warming, 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:31.080 which ahe Oren says is a hoax, It's a myth. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.760 That motherfucker. You read the story in the New York Times. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.240 I guess then the other day about how what happened, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.240 we're pretty much done. Oh yeah, we got what eight 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.440 is or something, and saying there is no joke. This 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:49.680 is this is we're talking about the planet. This is 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.720 God's planet as we know it, and this is no joke. 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:57.240 I mean, scientists from all over the world has said this. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.040 I think he might have put up by a you 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:05.480 in and that's it's not b s. It's not a hoax, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:10.440 it's not fake. We're in perible. Yeah, and this motherfucker says, 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.280 there's notice such thing as global warming. That's the kind 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.080 of is that the kind of thing that's ever like 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.840 you ever thought about putting something about that into your work, 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.760 Never really seen anything like that. Really, you're talking about 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.200 global warm and do the right thing? Well true in 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:31.040 a way that everybody's hot. They that's true, that's true. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:36.880 We had the crystop ball on global warm, the cornerment 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:42.959 on the Three Cornman. I'll bring this up often when 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.599 I go to film festivals. I know I gotta do 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.640 a lot of press m hm. And it's particularly when 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:57.679 you're an African American. Somehow maybe it's issue. Was a 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:03.120 spokesperson of for you know, African Americans. And I've never 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.319 ever tried to put myself in that place. Have always 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.520 said any pain, I've said, I'm not speaking to behalf 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:14.439 anybody but myself. But I knew going to con this 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.920 made the question would come up, what's happening? I mean, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.559 anytime I go around the world now, people look at me, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:28.719 say Spike what's happening in your country, And it's not 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.240 just if we want to break it down, this stuff 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.920 is happening not justly. This guy is running Who's who 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:36.520 just is going to be in a runoff for Brazil. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.480 This guy's bad as Agent Orange. And so we've seen 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:46.600 a rise the right all across this world. So it's 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.920 not just the United States America. But anyway, I knew 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.040 I'll be asked to give my state of whatever they 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.800 might want to call it, and so I took the 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.959 novel approach of you know what, let me come with 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:06.040 the film title that may be best described, you know 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.000 what I think it is, and and that there much thought. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.240 I came upon Peter Wells film, Peter Weir's film, Peter 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:18.240 Weir's film, very good film, The year Living Dangerously. That's 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:23.760 where we are. I go to bed every night thinking 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:30.400 about Agent Orange has nuclear code. You guys, you actually 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.760 get to sleep thinking about that. But I keeps you 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:37.160 awake a little bit. I mean, he has, and I've 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.920 seen the football. I gave my wife an ITALI gave 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:48.120 over benefit for President Barack Obama the second for his 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:53.800 second term, and his car was parked in front of 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.240 my house. And I still the guy in the back 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:03.800 with the football. The football will being act case that president, 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.000 I think, and I don't know what exactly, but it 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:07.960 has to be very close to when leaves the White House. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:10.240 So it wasn't. It was parked in front of my 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.760 house and they let me. I mean, I knew who 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.560 I was. Is it my house? So the guy let 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.720 me go up to the window and I saw that thing. 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.280 So I ad a nightmare that night. And that's even 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.440 with Obama, so you know, so you know, I'm tass 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:33.400 and turning out and I heard about this this myth 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:38.760 Oh that's uh. The football is reel as a motherfucker. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.600 He's right there behind him, right there, and I saw 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:51.679 my own eyes. So hopefully they gained the wrong code. 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:57.439 Hopefully game the code one two four. It's like a 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:02.720 spaceball's briefcase code. Oh my god. So again going back 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:08.680 to the Peter Wheels, Peter Weir's title, do You Living Dangerly? 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.280 That's where it And then with Cavanaugh, now, oh my god, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.560 And I forgot who who said? I read it somewhere 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:23.880 but someone wrote I forgot who was that. The United 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.880 States has not been this divided since the Civil War. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:33.640 That's going way back now. You might say the Vietnam War, Yes, 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.160 that that was there was a war. Home to about 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.920 what we're doing in Vietnam. We should not have been there. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:50.040 But it's crazy time now, absolutely absolute insanity. We're going 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.120 back to Black Klansman. I wanted to ask you what 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.000 what did you make of the real run star Worth, 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:05.520 straight up god doing his job, doing what's right. Very dangerous, 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.400 undertaken and you know, we might laugh at the clan 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.720 and their imbecle stuff like that, but there there they did, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.640 you know, yeah, you know they have a history killing people. 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:24.360 So you know, I was I was very, very pleased 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:30.480 to meet him, and he was very instrumental the walking 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:36.480 John David threw what he did as he became the 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.760 first African American police officer in Colorado Springs. Yeah, had 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.440 David John David on the show a couple of months ago. 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.280 I love that guy. Yeah, I mean, was he the 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.679 guy for the role from the beginning. There was from 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.520 the beginning, there was no audition, no reading. I just 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.199 offer him them part. I knew we could do it 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.360 just because you know the guy, I mean still was 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.680 about them Max. He's one of the kids and says, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.480 my name is Malcolm Mix. But being that the son 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:11.760 of Pauletta and Denzel Washington, no one his parents, his family, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.959 his work, ethic. He went to Morehouse College where I 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:22.240 went played football there. He And there's another thing is 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.720 that a lot of times you know people talk, well, 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:31.000 that's cliche, last cliche. The reason why things become cliches 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.560 because it was based on the truth from at the 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:38.160 very beginning. And so when you when you might say 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.960 that the fruit doesn't fall fall from the tree, that's 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:48.160 not that's not a cliche with John David Washington, Mr Truth. Yeah, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.960 he's going places. Man. I don't know if you've addressed this. 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.920 I don't know if you care to um, But you 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.920 know I asked about Ron because filmmaker Boots Riley had 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.160 some strong nuss You don't want to talk about that 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.480 is there is there's no dialogue to have there at all, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.320 not for me? No, all right, then I want to 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.160 branch out a little bit um some of the filmography 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.520 like yours. We can sit here all day and just 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.440 just a day and night and stuff. Man, But do 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.920 you look back much? Do you re review your work? Yes? 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:25.040 This past Friday was eight and the anniversary of Bamboozlo. 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.200 So I'm a tenure professor of filming and y U 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.280 y Went Angley and I are classmates. Angry Earnest Dick 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:38.000 is not all classmates, lusters class of night two. So 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.840 in class, we're gonna show bamboozl and Ellen Cures, the 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.960 Great DP is going to be our guest speaker. That's great, 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.480 So we'll give out the script. I haven't seen it 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:51.000 in a while. But one of the blessings of the 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.920 success of IM say this, sir, one of the blessings 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.360 of success of Black Class is that there's been like 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.360 a re evaluation. So I've been, you know, reading stuff 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.520 and people going back and look at films that they 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.800 dismissed or they never saw. One will be Bambooze, will 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.240 be twenty begin on the bus, I'll be It'll be Shyraq, 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.360 will be a miracle, Helenana. So that's that's that's been 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:26.440 nice for some people to you know, reevaluate their initial Yeah, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.760 seeing everybody's ranking your films again, Well, what's Spike Lee's 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.600 favorite Spike Lee phone mm hmm is the next one? 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.160 Probably huh my next one. But we saw Boozled in 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:43.000 film school would North Carolina School of the Arts Blew 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.640 me Away, Blew me Away. I love that film. Uh. 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.960 I want to talk about aesthetics to particularly the use 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:51.680 of color. I always talked about use of color when 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.600 I'm speaking to filmmakers. Interesting to me, you started your 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.200 career with black and white, but she's gotta have it, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.320 and then color became such an important part of the 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.680 palette with your your process. The reason why it was 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.520 black and white because a John Darts film Breathless was 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:10.320 such a big influence the editing, the sinematography. So that's 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.240 why Ernest tickets and I chose to do that. First 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:20.159 film with black also was cheaper too, backed into we're shooting, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.040 you know, reversal films, it was cheaper. What does color 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.480 means to you? And when you when you're embarking on 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.760 a new project pre production, setting out the palette, what 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.280 it means. I don't go and think it just had 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:39.560 to be colorful. For me, the script tells us everything. So, 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:47.159 for example, color films that were very important color due 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.440 the right thing. We wanted to show the heat, the 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:56.480 musical aspects of school days and Malcolm X. You look 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.280 at the old MGM three strips I mean, no was 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.360 the priest, but that type of technicolor. And then if 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:10.359 we look at the latest film, Ah, we wanted to 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.240 this film look like the other seventy films. I grow 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:19.320 with French Connection Doll the afternoon. That's why we shot 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:24.760 it on on the film um. And also you know 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:27.560 the classic shot, the Spike Lee Dollar shot. I mean, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.199 when when did that first hit you as an image 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.760 of impact that you would well. We first we did 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.640 on Bamboozel was scene where my character Giant is Ernest Dickerson. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.720 First I look talk Ernest Dickerson. Ernest Dickerson and I 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:47.480 entered and YU together and we boughted right away. Because 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.719 he also went to a historically black school. He went 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.840 to Howard University. I went to Morehouse, so they weren't 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.920 that many of us there. We boughted. Ernest was his 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:00.760 best DP in the school. So ernestow all my films 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:06.680 and YU then in U in a Row, She's gonna 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.240 have his school days, do the right thing. Mobile of Blues, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.920 Jungle FEVERA, then Malcolm X, and after Malcolm X, he 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.720 went on to direct Tupac and Juice. So Ernest came 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.680 into film school. I want to be directed, but he 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:27.200 knew that it was such a good DP. He felt that, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.680 you know, if I keep that eventually could lead me 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:35.040 being a DP, you know, being a director. So you know, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.159 it's this vibe and you know, and and we have 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:42.040 to service the film. What is the was the music, 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:50.439 the cinematography, the editing, production design, custom design. Everybody has 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.920 to use their skills. The best service to film that's 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.800 always been, uh, the marching orders? Does that shot? I 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.280 mean you're you repeated obviously? Does it mean something different? 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.040 Do you every time you use? Oh? Yeah, So again 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.320 getting back to your question, when Ernest and I did 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:06.760 the first time, and also like to say, no way 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.480 in the world did we ever say that we invented 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.600 that shot that's been done before, so as a shot 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.920 where I had to walk down the blog and Ernest 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:20.399 and Ida, we know, let's have some fun. So the 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.720 early the early uses of that shot was really just 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.960 you know, being film school geeks. But then Ernst and 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.920 I said, decide, you know what, just we really we 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.400 can't make light of this, this shot, the double dollar 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.440 shot we're talking about, so from now on and his 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.439 utilization has to really have impact. So the first term 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.280 weal did that, which is probably one of the best 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:55.960 uses was in Malcolm X. The backstory the late grade. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:00.280 Dr ben sha Bass, Malcolm's went on, told me that 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.960 she felt that Malcolm knew who's going to be assassinated 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.240 and they want to be a martyr. So once Dr 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:12.920 Sabass told me that, I said, How'm I gonna try 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.399 to show this emotion on his face? Knowing that what 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.159 his widow just told me, He's going his own execution. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:28.080 So that's where we came up with that use. And 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.200 another great use is the most is the most recent 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:40.960 film Black. Yeah, one of the my favorite uses of it. Actually, yeah, 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:43.560 I mean that film I wanted to talk about. It's 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:48.960 considered by many and I agree, yeah, and just particularly 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.000 one of the best films of that decade. Frankly, I 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.760 think it. Yeah, we had no love though at the 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.720 time I was there with you though, man's not appreciate it. 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:58.720 But here's here's the thing. It was, it was so 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:03.159 funked up ab out that because we were in uh 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.320 you know, we were jammed up. The film came out 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:10.639 during the awards season and limited release and so the 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.240 deal is this, you know, they adn't tried it was. 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.480 It was obvious. You know, they say, look and we 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:20.800 get we get critical great critical response. If we get 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:25.880 you know, up best year, I mean best best film 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.320 the year, you know, in a list some nominations, then 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.360 well when't then we'll push it out. But we don't 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:37.359 get that. It's like Audios Saranaravita thing, and that's what happened. 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.119 And it's a shame. But again there's another one of 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:48.480 those films that emerged after the film was released, and people, really, 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:53.680 I mean a lot of people still. I think, you know, 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:55.200 there's people to stop. I don't even know these what 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.240 people are stopped Miss Street and say they love you know, 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.800 it's not just because I really don't tell me why, 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.000 but they said, you know that they just love, you know, 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:06.879 love that film. I think for I mean for me, 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:10.399 it's a definitive depiction of whatever we were all feeling. 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.520 And there's just incredible majesty to it. What I wanted 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.040 to ask you was what did you feel when you 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:23.280 were making it? I was feeling like most New Yorkers, 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:28.800 like we have been punched in the stomach, hit overhead 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.200 with with the Wii made Louisville. I think we hold 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.680 wait wait, Louis Willie made use aderondic bats, so I 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:41.760 thought Louisville slug. But anyway, but at the same time, 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.840 we're down, but we know this is we're motherfucking New Yorkers, 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:47.000 so they're gonna take more than that that, you know, 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:52.720 keep us down. So it's very very fighting spirit. Leave 0:23:52.760 --> 0:24:00.240 out Julianni being the motherfucking America's mayor lead. Actually it out, 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:06.399 but there was I think New Yorkers were unified, and uh, 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:09.000 here's the thing. A lot of peop don't know. David 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:16.119 Bennioff wrote the novel. The novel was written before, so 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:21.080 it was my idea. I suggested to David, look, you 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.760 got to rewrite the script and make a post nine eleven. 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:29.040 And also that very famous scene, one of the most 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:31.240 famous scenes in the film were Edward Norton in the mirror. 0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.520 That wasn't that scene was in the novel, but it 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.959 wasn't in the script. So I said, when I once 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:44.040 to read the novel, I said, David, how comes not 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:46.040 in the script because I don't know, I don't. I'll 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.960 just shoot that said, don't worry about that. That's my problem. 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:58.879 So that was the performances Edward Norton was Dario Barry 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:03.080 Pepper killed it. That's the thing. I think people the 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:04.600 people like me, and I was like, if it's going 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:06.639 to get a nomination, hopefully that's it. Because he was 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:14.119 so good. I mean, Brian Cox, even Tony Siragosa, you know, 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:20.320 it was Philip see the Lake, great Philipsy Hoffman. You know, 0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:22.840 I wanted to ask you about him, any thoughts that 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.080 come to mind? I mean, for the thing that crushes 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.000 me about that. I always ask people about Hoffman whenever 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:29.960 that have worked with him on there on the show. 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:32.520 You know, we lost him in his prime. We had 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.200 so many more performances to get out of him. You know, 0:25:35.320 --> 0:25:37.000 he had so much more to give. He is a 0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:41.480 thing though. I mean, that's a long list for people 0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:46.440 who you know, left way too soon. He was a 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:53.960 very private person, and uh what I remember a lot 0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:55.800 of bottoms of you know that year we had a 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.880 softball team and we were killing everybody. We will play 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.920 the movies and stuff like that. Barrant Pepper is a 0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:09.760 great athlete baseball, hockey, I mean he I mean, he's 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:14.840 he could played professional sports. I mean, that's how good 0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:22.560 he is. And we were a kid. You know we 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:29.800 were kids, Philip, Yeah, so you know, kind of chubby. 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:32.480 You know we've seen running around. It was all good 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:40.639 in spirit, but beautiful soul and men. I I mean 0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:43.840 I didn't know, you know, what was going on. I mean, 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:47.399 people you know, come to work, do their job and 0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:49.720 when they go home and that's their own personal business. 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:54.800 But I never saw any nothing like that. There was 0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:58.720 There was no clues. I mean I was shocked. Other 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.159 people knew, you know that a close him, but I 0:27:01.240 --> 0:27:04.640 had no idea. Yeah, and something else about that film 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:07.320 that I love you closed it with the fuse the 0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:10.320 Springsteen song, which is my favorite song from The Rising. Well, 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:15.000