1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I

3
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: have something for you and all free E chapter on

4
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 1: coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a

5
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake

6
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 1: cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that

7
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000
Speaker 1: are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing

8
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 1: you online, to fake cures that are being sold on

9
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 1: the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to

10
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E

11
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,280
Speaker 1: chapter coronavirus crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime

12
00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 1: online dot com. You'll see it there the link and

13
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:07,520
Speaker 1: download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists,

14
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: cons that will not only take advantage of you, but

15
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,960
Speaker 1: take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people

16
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: you love. At a time well we are all fighting

17
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,680
Speaker 1: the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot

18
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,120
Speaker 1: com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented

19
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. His

20
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:47,240
Speaker 1: nickname is Super Duper aka Duper for short. So how

21
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 1: does this devoted father of nine end up dead on

22
00:01:54,360 --> 00:02:06,919
Speaker 1: the floor of a family dollar Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

23
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,080
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

24
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,080
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation, and Sirius XM

25
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,359
Speaker 1: one eleven, let's get it off with our friends at

26
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 1: Fox To Detroit. His family, says the lovable father of

27
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 1: six children and three step children cared for his family

28
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 1: more than anything. His name focus on anything twenty four

29
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: seven was his MoMA, his keys, and his wife Munderlin

30
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 1: even getting the nicknames super Duper from his mother because

31
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,959
Speaker 1: he was always helping others, was ripping one and trying

32
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 1: to help everybody is better. He put everybody before him.

33
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: You know I'm hearing our friend Erica Erickson at Fox

34
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,920
Speaker 1: To describing Calvin Munderlin, just forty three years old, the

35
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 1: father of nine. All the guy did, according to family friends,

36
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: co workers, was work like a dog and spend time

37
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 1: with his family. I have listened to what so many

38
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,119
Speaker 1: people have to say about Calvin aka Superdeeper. They said,

39
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: no matter where he was, he had one or more

40
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,799
Speaker 1: of the nine children with him with me as an

41
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it

42
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,639
Speaker 1: back together again. I just I just don't get why

43
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 1: a hard working guy just trying to support his family

44
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 1: has to be dead on the floor of the family

45
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: Dollar with me. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer. You

46
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,320
Speaker 1: can find her at NCA Domestic Law. Knows her way

47
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 1: around the courtroom. Psychoanalyst to the stars. Doctor Bethany Marshall

48
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,320
Speaker 1: joining me from LA on Insta. Doctor Bethany Marshall. Cloyd

49
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 1: Steiger thirty six years Seattle PD twenty two homicide, author

50
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant at Cloyd

51
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,560
Speaker 1: Steiger dot com Forensics Jacksonville State University and author of

52
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert,

53
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 1: joining us or right now to the lead news anchor

54
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:20,280
Speaker 1: or Orlando Wdbo, Ray Caputo, right. I just don't get

55
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:26,920
Speaker 1: how a guy like Calvin Munnerlin ends up dead. Hey, Ray,

56
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox too. It's

57
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,039
Speaker 1: just no excuse for somebody to take this kind of

58
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 1: an action over this kind of an issue. Shot in

59
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,480
Speaker 1: the head, killed apparently for telling someone to put on

60
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,919
Speaker 1: a mask. This was totally uncalled for he didn bother

61
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,160
Speaker 1: a soul. The family of forty three year old Kelvin Munnerlin,

62
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 1: known lovingly as Super Duper, says he've been working at

63
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 1: this family dollar store on Fifth Avenue in Flint as

64
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 1: a security guard for the past few months. It's so devastating.

65
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 1: He shouldn't have been and lost his life by shy

66
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 1: to say through his mom Glent. Police in the Genesee

67
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 1: County Prosecutor's Office say Friday afternoon, forty five year old

68
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,040
Speaker 1: Charmel Teague came into the store Munerlin ordering her to

69
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: put a mask on. Police Atigue began yelling and spinning

70
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 1: on him, Muna Lynn telling the cashier not to serve her.

71
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 1: You know. Back to you, Ray Kiputo, Lady News anchor

72
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 1: or Landay Morning News BDBO. Ray, explain to me, how

73
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,599
Speaker 1: did the whole thing start? Well, Nancy, you know that

74
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 1: Michigan's one of the many states that has a lockdown order.

75
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 1: So basically the governor there says that people have to

76
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: wear masks inside and closed buildings. You know, that's the

77
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,279
Speaker 1: order of the day. So Calvin was working at a

78
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 1: dollar a family dollar, a dollar general's store. Here's a

79
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 1: hard working guy doing his job, and a couple of

80
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,039
Speaker 1: people come in, Charmel Teague and her little girl, and

81
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 1: Charmel is wearing a face mask and the little girls not.

82
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,560
Speaker 1: So he's just doing his job. Calvin comes up to

83
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 1: Charmel because you know, the kid has to have a mask.

84
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,919
Speaker 1: She carently didn't like what he said in a verbal argument, ensuit.

85
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 1: That's how things started to go downhill. I want to

86
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 1: go out to doctor Bethany Marshall. Everybody in that jurisdiction.

87
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 1: This is just a little north of downtown Flint, Michigan.

88
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: Everybody there is under orders by the governor. Not all

89
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,159
Speaker 1: businesses have been open, but the ones that are open,

90
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,919
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be wearing face mask. Why do you

91
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 1: have to have a fight about a face mask, Nancy.

92
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 1: There is so much rage that's being projected into the

93
00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,159
Speaker 1: issue of face masks. I think wage inequality, whatever is

94
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: going on in a person's personal life. You know, we

95
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,280
Speaker 1: are all used to protecting ourselves, going to the doctor

96
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,760
Speaker 1: for every little ache and pain and symptom, but there

97
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 1: is very little public discourse about protecting the health and

98
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,400
Speaker 1: lives of others. And wearing a mask is not just

99
00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: for yourself. It is for other people. The only public

100
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 1: discourse on taking some action for saving the lives of

101
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 1: others is in drinking and driving and smoking. And that's it.

102
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,360
Speaker 1: So Charmel who walked into the store and her little

103
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: girl did not have a mask on, was only thinking

104
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 1: about herself and her little girl. She was not thinking

105
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 1: about everybody else in that store. There was a big

106
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 1: breakout here in Pasadena. A family gathered, they had a

107
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: family birthday party. One of the kids didn't wear a mask,

108
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 1: coughed all over everybody and there it became a hot

109
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 1: spot for COVID and spread throughout the community. So kids

110
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 1: have to wear masks too. Guys who are talking about

111
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 1: the death, the shooting death of a forty three year old,

112
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 1: a guy doing his job devoted to his family. What

113
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 1: did you just say about wage inequality? Because when I

114
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 1: go in, for instance, Costco, they don't care. Hey, I

115
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,000
Speaker 1: am I got to wear a mask. So what are

116
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: you saying, doctor Bethanie about wearing a mask has something

117
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: to do with wage inequality and that makes people mad.

118
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 1: That doesn't even make sense to me. Well, I guess

119
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Nancy is no, no, no, no, don't yes,

120
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 1: what you're saying, What are you saying? You're already talking

121
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 1: and in psychoanalyst terms that I'm just a JD. Okay,

122
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 1: you gotta break you down, for there is a subculture

123
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 1: in our country who is enraged. These are the people

124
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 1: who protested in Charlottesville. This is the guy who ran

125
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,760
Speaker 1: somebody over with a car. These are people who commit crimes,

126
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,319
Speaker 1: and I think that sometimes. I know I'm a psychoanalyst,

127
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,319
Speaker 1: not a politician, but I do think wage inequality. I

128
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,680
Speaker 1: think conspiracy theories that are just abounding on the internet,

129
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,200
Speaker 1: mistrust of science. Bring it home, Bethanie, bring it home.

130
00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 1: Let me get you out of the wage and they

131
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: took it out on this poor security. What had to

132
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 1: do with wage inequality? What are you saying? I know,

133
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: I argue you say, did she say wedge inequality? You did?

134
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: What does that have to do with face masks? Hey,

135
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,559
Speaker 1: I'm digging myself into a hole here, Nancy, Nancy, there

136
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 1: is huge wage and equality in our country and as

137
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: it Okay, you're making my head and my teeth her.

138
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 1: What does that have to do with face masks? Well,

139
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 1: rage can get projected into an object or a symbol,

140
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 1: does not have to do with she felt that fault. Okay,

141
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 1: Charmel felt that following the rules was putting her out,

142
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 1: was insulting her, was taking away her civil liberty. What

143
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: does that have to do with wage? Can you just

144
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 1: go ahead mit? Admit had nothing to do with rage.

145
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with wage. You're right, you're

146
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,560
Speaker 1: the prosecutor. I'm on the pay. If it does, tell me,

147
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,680
Speaker 1: because I want to understand, I can't do it, Nancy.

148
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,800
Speaker 1: If it does have to do with wage inequality, which

149
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,679
Speaker 1: I recognize. You know, I remember working three way at

150
00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 1: one point four jobs as a district when I was

151
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: an assistant district attorney, just to make my house payment

152
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,200
Speaker 1: in my car payment, which smoked from under the hood

153
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 1: every time I stopped at a red light. But I

154
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,320
Speaker 1: just want you to tell me in one sentence what

155
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:26,920
Speaker 1: wage inequality has to do with face masks. I believe

156
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 1: that people who have intergenerational wage inequality are prone to

157
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,040
Speaker 1: being more angry and more anti authority, and they took

158
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,680
Speaker 1: it out on this poor security guard. Okay, Now I

159
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 1: hear what you're saying, and what I'm selecting, cherry picking

160
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: out of what you've been saying, is that there's a

161
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: lot of rage right now in general because of COVID lockdown,

162
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,880
Speaker 1: and face masks have turned into a symbol of that

163
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,400
Speaker 1: rage that I'm getting and that I had not thought

164
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 1: of until you brought it up. That it's some disrespecting

165
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,680
Speaker 1: people to ask them to wear a face mask. See,

166
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,439
Speaker 1: all I know is that if I want to go

167
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 1: in to Costco and get my chicken tiquimusala, I have

168
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,000
Speaker 1: to wear a face mask. Okay, So I don't even

169
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 1: think about why, who, what where? Why? When I know

170
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 1: what I want, I know what I gotta do to

171
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 1: get it. Bam. But you're bringing up a whole different

172
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 1: can bala wax here climb stories with Nancy Greece. Guys,

173
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about why a forty three year old dad

174
00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 1: of nine ends up shot in the back of the head.

175
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 1: Everything doctor Bethany just said is most likely true. But

176
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: I still don't get why he's shot in the back

177
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 1: of the head, why he's got nine children without a dad?

178
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 1: Right now, take a listen to our Dave Matt from

179
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 1: Crimoline dot com. Forty three year old Calvin Munerland is

180
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 1: working as a security guard for the Family Dollar in Flint, Michigan.

181
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 1: When Charmel Tigue and her five year old come into

182
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,960
Speaker 1: the store. The forty five year old mother is wearing

183
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 1: a mask, as stay guidelines require, but the child does not.

184
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 1: When Munerland tells Tigue that her child must wear a mask,

185
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: she yells at him, spits on him, and drives off.

186
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 1: About twenty minutes later, she returns to the store with

187
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 1: her forty four year old husband, Larry Edward Tigue and

188
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 1: twenty three year old son Raymonier Trevon Bishop. All three

189
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: confront Munerlin. So explain to me, back to you, Ray Kaputo,

190
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 1: lead news anchor Orlando Wdbo. So he super Deeper asked

191
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,199
Speaker 1: the mom, and I believe that to be forty five

192
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 1: year olds, trumelt put a mask on your daughter. The

193
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,839
Speaker 1: mom throws a fit, and I'm sure this is all

194
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 1: on surveillance video. PTL and Jackie shaking her head. Yes,

195
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, you never know which. I'll circle back with you,

196
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,960
Speaker 1: Joe Scott and Cloyd Steiger because you look around, you

197
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,680
Speaker 1: think you see cameras, half of them aren't working, half

198
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 1: of them tape over, blah blah. She throws a fit

199
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:45,200
Speaker 1: and actually spits on super Deeper. Calvin Munlin and then

200
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,199
Speaker 1: stomps off and a half oh wait, I left something out.

201
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 1: He tells her, put a mask on your daughter. She

202
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 1: throws a big fit, won't do it. He tells the

203
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,959
Speaker 1: cashier don't serve them. Now, remember he's under governor's order

204
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,280
Speaker 1: to do this. He's the one that will get a

205
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 1: ticket or an ordinance violation or maybe even closed down

206
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: the family dollar. And so that's what she spits on

207
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 1: him and stops off. Do I have the facts correct

208
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 1: so far? Ray, computer, I'm I'm leaving anything out because, frankly, Ray,

209
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 1: as you well know, one fact can change the outcome

210
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,400
Speaker 1: of a trial or the way we look at it.

211
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: Something else may have happened that I don't know about.

212
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 1: It may change everything. So what am I leaving out?

213
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,880
Speaker 1: If anything? But that's the facts, Nancy, including what you

214
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,640
Speaker 1: just mentioned at the end that Kelvin told the cashier

215
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,280
Speaker 1: not to serve Charmel and I believe that's what really

216
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: really set her off. Tell me, but you got the

217
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 1: facts right. Why do you say that's really what set

218
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 1: her off? Well, you know what, she was denied service there.

219
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 1: She must have thought, this is just a Dollar General

220
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 1: security guard. Who's this guy? Too. Why did you just

221
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: say he's just a family dollar security guard. Did you

222
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 1: just say, I'm assuming that's what shar I personally guysly Calvin,

223
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:09,320
Speaker 1: Nancy or unsung. My father was a blue collar worker

224
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: as a freight agent for the Southern Railway Norfolk Southern,

225
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: and he worked god awful hours, had to drive from

226
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,479
Speaker 1: one place to another until he finally got a secure spot.

227
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 1: And he helped put me through law school, my sister

228
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: through PhD at Wharton, and my brother through his undergraduate degree. So,

229
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't take it very kindly when

230
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 1: people say, like Calvin, but I hear what you're saying,

231
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 1: and I think you're right. Ray Ka Puto. I think

232
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 1: she thought, I'm not letting some security guard at family

233
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: daughter tell me what to do. I guarantee you you're right.

234
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: And it's all mashed up and what doctor Bethany was saying.

235
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: I want to circle back very quickly to Chloyd Siger

236
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: thirty six years Seattle PD. I know in my heart now,

237
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: Cloyd Siger, and I'm always amazed with you thirty six years,

238
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 1: Seattle PD. Twenty two years of that in homicide now,

239
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 1: author of Seattle's Forgotten serial killer Gary Jane Graham Kloyd,

240
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,760
Speaker 1: how many times has I mean a triple homicide? I'm

241
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 1: just thinking of one in my head that I prosecuted.

242
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 1: Crazy things. Everything goes haywire over something as small as

243
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 1: your daughter needs to wear a face mask, and everything

244
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 1: just goes Nancy, I can bat crazy. Yeah, I can't

245
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 1: begin to tell you how many murders I've investigated or

246
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: absolutely over nothing, over some minor little disagreement and the

247
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: guns come out and people start shooting, or this stab

248
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 1: or this strangle. It's just, you know, I don't know

249
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 1: what it is, but we live in a society where

250
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: some people just have no value of human life and

251
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 1: will something else. I agree with you, Cloyd, no value

252
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,439
Speaker 1: on a human life, but the impulse control. You know,

253
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 1: I'm very anti gun from my home, our home, and

254
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 1: my husband doesn't feel that way, but he goes along

255
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: with me because I remember the first time I had

256
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: to pick a gun up and hold it frontally jury

257
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,840
Speaker 1: I felt like I was picking up a burning pot.

258
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 1: But I'm all for everybody else the right to bear

259
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,879
Speaker 1: arms with in a world where guns are so prolific

260
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,719
Speaker 1: and no impulse control. You put those things together and

261
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 1: you get Calvin and Arland dead on the floor and

262
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: Cloyd Stiger is right, human life no value. To Joseph

263
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 1: sky Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State Joe Scott, I pray

264
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 1: to God that there's a video of this. Just because

265
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,160
Speaker 1: you've got a camera trained on the cashier, that doesn't

266
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 1: mean a hill of beings in reality. Why no, it doesn't,

267
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 1: because it's not going to capture everything. Hopefully they've got

268
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 1: multiple CCTV views, that is, little cameras that are positioned

269
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 1: and if you go into stores sometimes they're not as

270
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 1: glaring as they used to be. Where you have this

271
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: kind of camera module sitting up there, they'll look like

272
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: a big fish eye sticking out of the ceiling, and

273
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: hopefully there'll be multiple views all the way around. These

274
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: cameras kind of rotate around. It used to be kind

275
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,239
Speaker 1: of cost prohibited to have these things because it had

276
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: to have tape. You had to have these big cameras.

277
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: Not anymore. You can actually digitize or make these in

278
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: a digital format. These cameras roll perpetually. You load it

279
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: onto the hard drive and it's there. Hopefully it was working.

280
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,880
Speaker 1: How many of these cases do we cover? Nancy where

281
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 1: we have no CCTV coverage in this particular case. I

282
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: can tell you it's going to be striking because this

283
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 1: is going to tell a tale of a public execution

284
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 1: as well. It's going to come down to you know,

285
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of it like that, a public execution.

286
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 1: Straight out to Kathleen Murphy, Kathleen, take a listen to

287
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:17,199
Speaker 1: our friends at NBC. This is Alicia Bergio. After an

288
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: argument to broke out between Munderland and the female suspect

289
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 1: because her daughter was not wearing a mask, things took

290
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 1: a turn. Surveillance video from Family Dollar shows the woman

291
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 1: was forced to leave the store, then later came back

292
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: with her son Bishop and husband Tigue under the black

293
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: males started yelling at manor Lyin about disrespecting his wife.

294
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 1: The other black mail then walks up to Munerlin and

295
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,639
Speaker 1: shoots Manolin. Both men took off after the incident. He

296
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 1: was just an all around good guy, and when I

297
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: found out what had happened to him, he really broke

298
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,600
Speaker 1: my heart because I know what kind of person he was. Okay,

299
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 1: and this is not about race, because the victim is

300
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: an African American male, is nine children, his wife left

301
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: behind are all African Americans. The shooters an African American.

302
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,680
Speaker 1: I think that was part of a bolo be on

303
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 1: the lookout and the reporters were trying to give information

304
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 1: about what the purps look like. Because to you, Kathleen Murphy,

305
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 1: North Carolina trial lawyer, they took off. They shoot Calvin

306
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 1: Manolin in the back of the head. The son, the

307
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: son of the dad, come in. They start jawing at

308
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: Calvin manerlind super deeper about disrespecting the wife, and Shermeltigue

309
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: shoot him in the back of the head, execution style,

310
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 1: and then they go to their car and drive off

311
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: over a face mask. Tell me, Kathleen Murphy, how many

312
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: times have you looked at a case you're handling and

313
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 1: thought over. It is a day to day thing, and Nancy,

314
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: I'm happy to say that when I have clients that

315
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: come in that are involved with domestic violence, I work

316
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: really hard to talk with them about tools that we

317
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: can put into place to control their behaviors. Whether it's

318
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: somebody that has rage issues, whether somebody has control issues.

319
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,160
Speaker 1: People have to learn to control themselves, and there is

320
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 1: a place right now where we need to put tools

321
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,360
Speaker 1: into place for people to control their rage, help the

322
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: public learn how to deal with these situations so we

323
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: don't lose a wonderful father like Cooper's what And I

324
00:21:48,600 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: just can't imagine I'm one of seven kids crime stories

325
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys that we're talking about the execution

326
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: style murtyr of a guy just doing his job at

327
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: Family Dollar, working really long, hard hours, supporting nine children

328
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 1: and a wife gets a gunned down after he asked

329
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: a woman to get her daughter a face mask. Then

330
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: she spits on him and leaves what a disrespect And

331
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: then the husband comes back with the son. They start

332
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: attacking him verbally about disrespecting the mom, the wife Charmel Tigue,

333
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: and end up shooting him dead. Take a listen to

334
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: our friends, CBS News correspondent Laura Podesta. A Family Dollar

335
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: store in Flint, Michigan, became a murder scene on Friday.

336
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 1: Police believe a security guard, forty three year old Calvin Munterlin,

337
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: was fatally shot in the head after he told shopper

338
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: Charmeltigue that her daughter had to wear a mask before

339
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: and during the store. The daughter did not have a mask.

340
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: Charmel did have a mask, but the altercation ensued and

341
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: we believe she communicated with Larry Larry Tig and Raman

342
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: Bishop and they returned to the store and the shooting occurred.

343
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: You know there, you go right there. A lot of

344
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: times when there is a heated argument and a shooting

345
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: or death occurs, it can be argued, and sometimes successfully,

346
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: that that was a voluntary manslaughter that you shot in

347
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: the heat of passion. But the fact that they left

348
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: and came back, that's not gonna work because they had

349
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: what we call under the law to Kathleen Murphy in

350
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: North Carolina, cooling off period, give it to me in

351
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: a nutshell, Kathleen, if there's even one moment in time

352
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: where they had the ability to cool off that it's

353
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: not going to be any other charge butt murder in

354
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: the first degree, no other charge but murder in the

355
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: first degree. Well, to make matters worse, they go on

356
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: the run. Take listen to Fox five DC Tara and Asher.

357
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: We believe Finley and Mitchell rented a vehicle here and

358
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: drove Teague to Texas. In Texas, we allege they bought

359
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: Tea clothing at a Houston area Walmart and rented him

360
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: a room and on Friday, Michigan State Police nabbed his son, Laton,

361
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: praising the public after a tip led Michigan State Police

362
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: to Bishop, who had been hiding out in a basity house.

363
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: Authorities entered the building, called into the unit in which

364
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: they believed Bishop was hiding, and he was taken into

365
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: custody without incident. Back to Ray Kipto, l News anchor

366
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: Orlando Morning News WDBO Ray, So, how many people are

367
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: helping these people PARPs cover up their crimes when Nancy.

368
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: Six people are now charged with this murder, this this

369
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: situation that spun out of control. Six people are now

370
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: going to face charges. You know, we got Charmel, We

371
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: got break Damel hold on. Charmel Tigue is the mom

372
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: who goes in with a face mask with a daughter

373
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: without a face mask. Forty five year old old enough

374
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: to know about a Charmel Tiague. That's number one. He

375
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: Who else do we have? Well, we got Larry t

376
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: the husband who was the one that came back and

377
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: confronted kelvinty four year old husband, Larry Tiague. Then we've

378
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: got Romagne Bishop and he's the shooter, the stepson of

379
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: Larry and Charmel's real son. Biological son twenty three year

380
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: old Romagne Bishop. Those are the main PARPs. But then

381
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: we've got another. Well, then we have another family member, Nancy.

382
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: We have Bria Bishop. She is an adult daughter of

383
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: a brother of Romagna. Now she was charged with eating

384
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: and a betting to basically helping Roulandier get away. So

385
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: Bria Bishop, age twenty five years old, according to my notes,

386
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: has three counts against her. Tampering with evidence that's ten

387
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: years possibility, lying to cops that's four years possibility. And

388
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: what have I scribbled out here? She's got one more.

389
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: I bet it's five years. So I bet it's accessory

390
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: after the fact. So what's the story. What did they

391
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: do to help the shooters get away? Well, the two

392
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: people we know that that took Larry tie down to Texas,

393
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: Laura Mitchell and Charen stinley On. We don't know the relationship,

394
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: but they are obviously close enough to be able to

395
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: help Larry. They helped them get a hotel room, They

396
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: obviously drove him, they bought them clothed. I mean, they

397
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: went through pretty great lengths. Now, I'm not quite sure

398
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: exactly what Brea or Bria did, but she clearly helped

399
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: throw the cops off. There. There was an eight day

400
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: period between Larry and Romanda of being doing this and

401
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: then being taken into custody, So they were they were

402
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: on the run for a hot minute. You're not kidding.

403
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: They were on the lamb eluding police for over a week.

404
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: To Joseph's got Morgan. I want to get back to

405
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: the scene of the shooting because this is really important

406
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: to me that these people be brought to justice for

407
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: what they did to Calvin Mundelin. What can you tell

408
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: me about how that scene should be processed, How important

409
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: it is that the medical examiner, for instance, gets the

410
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: right trajectory path of the bullet in Calvin's head, that

411
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: they look for gunshot residue or stippling around the wound.

412
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: Why is why those details and others that you're going

413
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: to tell me about so important in this case. Oh,

414
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: it is important, Nancy, And you've already made very salient

415
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: point in that they left and came back, so they

416
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: came back armed my suspicions, you're right on with that.

417
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: That's so right that they came back. They could just

418
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: leaving a huff. Have any of you ever been at

419
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: a store or somewhere and sometimes you're like, hmm, I'm

420
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: laving because that's your half, Yeah, leaving a huff idea

421
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: I have to come back armed to the teeth and

422
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: about that mad okay, Joe Scott, For once, Bethany's interrupting you,

423
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: not me, I want credit for that. Can jump in,

424
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: beth Okay. So, I was the marriage and family therapist

425
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: before becoming a psychoanalyst, and I had the rare experience

426
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: throughout the years of treating extended family systems where it

427
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: seemed like everybody acted like animals. And when I say animals,

428
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: I mean animals. It's hard for me to get that

429
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: through in my head. When can you out in there

430
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: on Rodeo's drive and the family acting like animals? Go ahead,

431
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: almost like they were all very primitive, like fighting. I

432
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: remember two moms with their in their forties, with their

433
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: collective five or six daughters, all in my office fighting

434
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: over something stupid. One of the daughters was high. Both

435
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: of the mothers were trying to grab attention at the

436
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: expense of their daughters. Both mothers were still living with

437
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: men who had molested children in the family, and it's

438
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: almost like they were all primitive like nobody had socialized them,

439
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: nobody had educated them. They were all out for themselves.

440
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: And I just threw up my hands in despair, and

441
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 1: I thought, I think people are like animals. And I

442
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: was trying to and I don't mean that to be devaluing.

443
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: I mean that the aspect of being civilized, of being social,

444
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: of learning impulse control, like you I talked about earlier,

445
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: everything we learned in childhood. You know, Nancy, you're a mother.

446
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Think of the many hours you spend processing Lucy and

447
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: John David's experiences processing and processing and processing. Imagine if

448
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: you raise them and you never processed one single thing.

449
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: They could just slop food out of the refrigerator, they

450
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: could hit each other, they could you know, spit on

451
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: kids at school, and then that was celebrated like that's

452
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: a great way to behave in the world. Some families

453
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: do operate like this. It's surprising, but they really do.

454
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of all the things, and I'm sure

455
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: you know this is going to give the twins years

456
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: and years of psychoanalyst analysis. But I'm forever saying, Lucy,

457
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: stand up straight, do not slouch, John David. We do

458
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: not need to see the food in your mouth while

459
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: you're chewing. Just I know that one day they're going

460
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: to go, oh, my mother, blah blah blah blah blah.

461
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: But you know what, it's worth it if they stand

462
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: up straight, don't chew with their mouth open. I'll take

463
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: the abuse. But I'm listening to what you're saying. And

464
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: now the daughter this mom has seen the mom spit

465
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: on a security guard. And there's no telling how all

466
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: these children have been raised. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

467
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about the brutal murder of a guy just

468
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: trying to do his job and raise his children. And

469
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: there is no value that you can place on a

470
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: father's presence. A good dad in your life. A good

471
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: dad means the world. And I'm kind of choking up

472
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: because I'm thinking about all the sacrifices my mom and

473
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: dad made for us and the example they gave us.

474
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: And you know, some mornings when I don't want to

475
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: get up at five o'clock and start working, I think

476
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: about my dad and my mom doing it all those years,

477
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: never complained. Take a listen, Joe Scott Morgan, I want

478
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: you to hear ABC twelve News reporter and Perett said

479
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: this before a senseless and tragic and there's just no

480
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: explanation for May first, forty four year old Larry Tigue

481
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: and his stepson, twenty three year old Romagna Bishop are

482
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: accused of gunning down this family dollars security guard Calvin Dupermunerlin.

483
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: They took off to avoid getting caught, but the Genesee

484
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: County prosecutor says they actually walked from the scene, didn't

485
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: run at all, which is one of the reasons we

486
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: think he knew that Bishop was going to shoot Monerlin,

487
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: because after the shooting, the normal reaction, if you didn't

488
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: know that was going to happen, would be to run

489
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: from there. David Layton says they went to Bishop's sister's

490
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: Flint home, Bria. Bishop is facing three felonies, accused of

491
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: helping the two escape. How long the two were there,

492
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: where they went next, and when they split up isn't clear.

493
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: You know, just the senselessness of this, But back to you.

494
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, professor forensics, Jackson State University, author of

495
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott the fact

496
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: that they just walked away. I can't wait for a

497
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: jury to see that, assuming it was caught on video.

498
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: So how what do we need to process this scene,

499
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: process mister Mullins's body in order to prove help me

500
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: prove the murder case here. Well, it's a dynamic environment.

501
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: You've got people that are screaming at one another, carrying on.

502
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: I think that I like to refer to Charmel as

503
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: Queen Charmel because she went home and told these guys

504
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: come with me, and that she cut them loose on

505
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: this guy after she spit on him like he was

506
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: some kind of less than human person. And when that happened,

507
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: you have the father potentially and I'm just spitballing here,

508
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: but you've got the father distracting in an argument. He's

509
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: up in the security guard's face, and then the sun

510
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: the gutless person he is, rolls around to the rear

511
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: of him, takes out a firearm and shoots this man

512
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: in the back of the head. Nancy, All right, Now,

513
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: what we need to know did they force him on

514
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: the ground and then shoot him from an upward angle

515
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: so that it's going down You know, imagine a classic

516
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: from an old movie where people are being executed. The

517
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: individual being shot downward like this, or did he just

518
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: simply walk behind him and discharge the weapon. Now, the

519
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: other piece to this is at what range did he

520
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: do this? Was he across the store, because if he's

521
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: across the store, there's not going to be any soot

522
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: deposit on the back of this man's head. My suspicion

523
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: is this occurred in close quarters, so within probably eighteen

524
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: inches of this poor man's head, the back of his

525
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: head where he doesn't have eyes, in the back of

526
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: his head as he's being attacked by this gutless coward,

527
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: he's being shot directly into the back of head. You're

528
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: going to have a storm of these little particles that

529
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: are going to be around this wound, and depended upon

530
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: how far apart the particles are, that'll give us an

531
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: indication as to the range of fire. The further way

532
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: you are, the wider the spread. Okay, we're not just

533
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: talking about the bullet hole. We're actually talking about soot

534
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: deposition on the back of the head, and that's going

535
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: to be the tail of take. You combine that with

536
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: the CCTV images that we hope are there, and it's

537
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: going to be dramatic. I think that this will be

538
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: a slim dunking court. Yeah. I thought that about O. J.

539
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: Simpson too. But when you're talking, when you're referring to

540
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: soot deposition, I think or I've told juries in the

541
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: past to think of. I don't use hairspray as an example,

542
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: because there's so many different kinds of hairspray. There's aerosol,

543
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: there's pump. I use lysol because men and women. I

544
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: hope my jury can have heard of lysol or sprayed before.

545
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, soot deposition, as Joseph Scott Morgan was correctly explaining,

546
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: the further away you are from the lysol, you spray it.

547
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: If you're that close, you get it dead on burst

548
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: of lysol. The further away you get, you get a spray.

549
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: Same way with a bullet. The closer you are to

550
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: your target, the more concentrated the gunshot residue will be.

551
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: The further you are away from it, the more diffused

552
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: it will be. Okay, well, I gotta tell you this much.

553
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: They go back in they say that Charmel Tigue, forty

554
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 1: five year old, as Joe Scott causer, Queen Charmel has

555
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: been disrespected. Well, they didn't make it hard. It took

556
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: a minute to track them down, But take a listen

557
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: to our friend Anne Pierrette at ABC twelve. The prosecutor

558
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: says Flint police received a tip from an old friend

559
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: of Bishops and that led them here into Customed without

560
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: any incident whatsoever, without anybody getting hurt. The alleged murder weapon,

561
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 1: a forty caliber handgun, hasn't been found yet. Layton says

562
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: Bishop has about a dozen weapons registered to him, but

563
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: didn't have any on him. His stepdad, Tigue, was arrested

564
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 1: the day before Thursday, May seventh, shortly after Laura Mitchell

565
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: and Terence Finley were caught. The pair's relationship to each

566
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: other and Toatigue isn't known, but Layton says they rented

567
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: a car to get Tige to Houston, bought him clothes,

568
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: and rented him a room, but he checked in under

569
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: his own name, making it that much easier for the

570
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: US Marshals to find him. But how were they led

571
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: to Texas in the first place, Flint Pee, some of

572
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: their really good detectives were able to, with their ear

573
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: to the ground, come up with information indicating that Finley

574
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: and Mitchell had taken a te to Houston and nobody

575
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: said it was a rocket signed his checks in under

576
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: named Jackie. You're trying to set me say, I'm not

577
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: the stepdad, I'm the dad, the what the dad that

578
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: stepped up. Wow, I'm looking at a picture of Calvin Mundolin.

579
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: He's got nine children and he's like this proud. He's

580
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: got a T shirt that says, I'm not the stepdad,

581
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm the dad that stepped up. I'm so mad I

582
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: could chew a nail in half, and I know it's

583
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: not going to make anything any better. We cannot bring

584
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: Calvin Mundolin back, but we can make sure that this group,

585
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: this family group that enabled the shooting, that agitated the shooting,

586
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: that covered up the shooting, that aided and abetted the

587
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: escape of fleeing felons, are brought to justice. These nine

588
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: children and this wife need to know somebody cared and

589
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: the maximum penalty under the law must be sought. There's

590
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: no alternative, there's no room for a plea deal or negotiations.

591
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: They all have to go down for the maximum. Ray Kipudo,

592
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: where does it stand right now? Well, Nancy, like you,

593
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: suddenly the entire family's going from one table lockdown to another.

594
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: This current one is not gonna end any time soon.

595
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: They're all facing serious charges. The entire family is going

596
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: to see jail time. Basically, I just jail time. I

597
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: don't want a twenty year sentence where they walk in

598
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: ten years. Oh no, you not go at a family

599
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: dollar and gun down the security guard for asking you

600
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: to wear a face mask and not do the max.

601
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: Oh no, what are they going to get? I completely

602
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: agree with Nancy, but I don't believe it. Maybe correct

603
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong that Michigan has the dust time.

604
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: You can shoot as many people as you want there

605
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: and still get the same sentence. So what are they

606
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: looking at? Well, they're looking at a lot of time.

607
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean, starting with Bria. She could face ten years,

608
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: and she seems to be the one that has the

609
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: least charges against her, the other two eating of betting.

610
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how long she can face nineteen

611
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: years ten years on the man count, tampering, four lying

612
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: to cops, and five accessory after the fact. I've been

613
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: adding it up behind your back. She's looking at if

614
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: the judge runs it consecutively, which I hope she does,

615
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: she's looking at nineteen years behind bars. They'll cut her

616
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: loose after about five seven years. But I'm telling you

617
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: nothing but the Max is going to do for Charmel

618
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: Tigue forty five, Larry Tigue forty four and Romandier Bishop

619
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: twenty three. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story,

620
00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye for one