1 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: guest is Macro CEO and founder Charles King. King learned 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: how to make deals during his more than fifteen years 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: as a top Hollywood agent with w M A and 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: later w M E. For the past few years, King 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: has been focused on making deals to build a business 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: and uplift communities of underrepresented storytellers. In our conversation, King 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: discusses his vision for Macro and how he nurtured the 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: idea for the company for years before planting his flag in. 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: King details the deal making behind the company's new movie, 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: Judas and the Black Messiah period drama about the murder 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: of Black Panther Party chairman Fred Hampton at the hands 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: of the FBI. It's generated ling reviews and awards buzz 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: for director Shaka King and stars Daniel Kaluya and la 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: Keith Stanfield. King explains how the process of getting the 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: movie made reflects the larger mission of Macro, and he 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: shares his thoughts on the pros and cons of the 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: studio's decision to have all of its movies premier simultaneously 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: in theaters and on HBO Max. And that's all coming 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: up today on Strictly Business. Welcome back to Strictly Business, 23 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: Charles Kings, CEO and founder of Macro. Thank you so 24 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: much for joining us from Atlanta. Thank you for having me, Cynthia. 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to our conversation. Congratulations on the absolutely 26 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: stellar reviews that are out for your latest, very big project, Judas. 27 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: Congratulations on the stellar reviews that are out for your 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: most recent film, Judas and the Black Messiah. It grabbed 29 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of Golden Globe nominating sctions. It has had 30 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: absolutely stellar uh stellar notices for Daniel Kalia and other 31 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: stars of the film. Um, it must be very gratifying 32 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: to work on something like that and have you know, 33 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: as as it is coming into the marketplace, to have 34 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: that kind of acclaim and really such a such a 35 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: strong launch pad for a movie like that with great reviews. Yeah, 36 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: we'd death. Thank you, Cynthia, really appreciate those words. Where 37 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: could not be more excited to have the film be 38 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: is embraced and well received and have critics give the 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: film praise, but it's also really been most gratifying to see, uh, 40 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: other members of the activist community and members of the 41 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: Black Panther Party and the family members who are part 42 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: of you know, Chairman Fred Hampton's family and others really 43 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: see this film and have it touched them and and 44 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 1: and help bring link to and and shine a light 45 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: and rewrite history for the work that was being done. 46 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: Has been beyond gratifying. And we just couldn't be more 47 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: excited for our filmmaker, Shaka King, who has such an 48 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: incredible vision for telling the story and and and the 49 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: way that he wanted to and and then frankly, all 50 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: of our partners, you know, Ryan Coogler and his company 51 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: Proximity and all of his partners seven zim Z and 52 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: just and and and for our community. You know, it's 53 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: a very exciting moment where really it can't wait for 54 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: the rest of the world to see the film when 55 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: it's released on the twelfth of February. You have a 56 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, a relatively new filmmaker and Shaka King as 57 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: star that is absolutely on his way to superstart him 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: but not at this point of market. Name, how did 59 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: you get that movie through this doesn't seem like the 60 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: kind of movie that you can get made these days, 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: but clearly you did. Can you talk about sort of 62 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: the trajectory and how it came about. Yeah, absolutely, I 63 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: mean this was one of those situations. This was the 64 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: type of films you're just in a black Messiah, which 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why we launched our company 66 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: Mackerels six years ago. You know where were in launching 67 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: the movie and launching our company with a vision of 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: empowering and supporting storytellers from diverse backgrounds, people of color, 69 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: being at the center of our of the content that 70 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: we would produce and finance, and utilizing our relationship and 71 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: experience in the industry, and so um this was exactly 72 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: the type of movie that would um shine a light 73 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: on a historical perspective that so many around in our 74 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: country as well as globally are not aware of, as 75 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: you talked about earlier, but also the type of project 76 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: where you had a young filmmaker with a vision that 77 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: perhaps hasn't yet to have worked in the studio system. 78 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: So when our partner Ryan Coogler called us about three 79 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: weeks after the global success of Black Panther, there and 80 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: he said, look, I know what I want to do. 81 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: I want to spend the next year or so building 82 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: out my production company, Proximity, And the first movie I'd 83 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: like to make is this movie about uh, you know, 84 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: Fred Hampton from The Black Panthers. Uh. This script is brilliant. 85 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: I'd love for you to read it and see if 86 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: mackerel would be interested in joining up and partnering with us, 87 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: because I have such a long friendship and relationship with 88 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: Ryan going back to w and me my time there 89 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: when I was a senior partner and I was one 90 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: of his agents. He knew that we provided not only 91 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: that we had a production group, but we also provided 92 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: financing and co financing for movies. And he's very smart 93 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: and knew that this was the type of project where 94 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: uh and where parties could come together and use our 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: collective force for getting a movie like this made and 96 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: seen by the largest audience possible. And so when I 97 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: read the script, we and my all of my colleagues 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: and partners read it, we were immediately just complete eat 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: le uh in love with the version of the two 100 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: hander approach, with this being an elevated thriller contemporary themes. 101 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: But that would but still told it from a this 102 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: true story and of what this great work that Chairman 103 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: Fred Hampton uh was was doing. And so our perspective was, 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: let's bring half of the financing to the table. So 105 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: we through the development process of the film, and because 106 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: of you know, Shaka's great perspective and the scripted he 107 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: and will Burson wrote, we Ryan introduced him to Daniel Calua. 108 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: So we had Daniel Calu and Lkeith Stansville who were 109 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: both interested in playing the two roles that they're in 110 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: that they played in the film. You know, Daniel Klua 111 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: playing Chairman Fred and l Keith playing William O'Neill. So 112 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: we knew we had two brilliant actors who were on 113 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: the rise that everyone was excited about. And ye had 114 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: Daniel had been exposed internationally from get out, and you 115 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: had Lkeith who was on one of the hottest shows 116 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: that everyone loves Atlanta, plus his other body of work 117 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: and we'd work together with him on Sorry to Bother 118 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: You and and so it was a great combination. But 119 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, it's not like they were um actors 120 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: that the head of every studio was saying, I'm going 121 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: to greenlight a movie for there were you know, there 122 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: are people that everyone wants to work with, but their 123 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: trajectory was still in the upper upper direction. And so 124 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: by going to market with a great script these two 125 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: amazing actors, Shaka as a visionary filmmaker that's being a 126 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: second movie, but his first would would be his first 127 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: studio film, but also having a weight and cloud of 128 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: Bryan Coogler in the success that he just had globally 129 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: with Black Panther, bringing Macro in half of the financing 130 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: to the table with a great production plan. It was 131 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: when we went to market there where we had a 132 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: number of people interested, but truly it was really Warner 133 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: Brothers in this case and our executive Nijakhaikendal who really 134 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: saw it. And I think that um it was as 135 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: Macro was having conversations about perhaps having a large relationship 136 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: with Warner Brothers. We had come in as a co 137 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: financier on justin Mercy, and the stars aligned where they said, okay, 138 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: well we'll do this and we'll make this together as 139 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: a fifty fifty co financing partnership, and and that was 140 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: really that, you know, somewhat mitigated some of the risk 141 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: for them with with the party bringing in half of 142 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: the equity, but it also put us in a position 143 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: of were partners, So this wasn't purely all driven by 144 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: the studio, and that's part of what also helped us 145 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: to continue to support Shaka's vision and how he cast 146 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: the movie and and keep it as authentic as possible. 147 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: And frankly, there were a couple of things that we 148 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: also had to do to make sure that there were 149 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: elements of this movie that would make it commercial, that 150 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: would make sure that it would penetrate an international audience, 151 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: and it would have the shoot out sequences and the 152 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: things that we needed to not make it a smaller 153 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: independent film. And to be honest with you, what we 154 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: are commercial a commercial movie, and that was the vision. 155 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: Chaka said, Look, I come out of the independent filmmaking world, 156 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: but I want this movie to be seen by a 157 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: global audience. I wanted to be widely distributed internationally. And 158 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: so the great thing was with Ryan's success with with 159 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: Black Panther, UH, the capital that Macro brought to the 160 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: table alongside Warner Brothers. When we hit a certain budget, 161 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: uh Wall, Macro actually funded some addition, you know, additional 162 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: UH commitment to make sure we had those additional bells 163 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: and whistles that were needed to make sure the movie 164 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: would have the commercial commerciality that I think we all 165 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: have seen with this film, and that by being uniquely 166 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: positioned as a company that provides capital as well as 167 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: the production expertise, I think that has helped empower filmmakers 168 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: like shockingly we work with and so many of the 169 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: other artists that we worked with since we launched our company. 170 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you how rare it is 171 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: that any six year old company would be able to 172 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: go to the Warner Brothers and say, yes, we have 173 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: the we have the resources and the whereabithal to co 174 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: finance a major you know, hope hopefully Why Distribution released movie. Um, 175 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: can you kind of st step back and talk about 176 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: how Macro got there? I mean you, you know, from 177 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: the time you planted your flag, I know you had resources, 178 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: but I also know those have really grown over the 179 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: last year. What has been the accelerant for you? Well, 180 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: we when we launched the company in two thousand and fifteen, 181 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: we we um we raised an initial round of capital 182 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: for overhead and development and really get the infrastructure and 183 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: begin to launch the verticals above the film studio financing, 184 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: the production business, our television UH production and now television Studio, 185 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: are Digital Content Studio, and the other things that we're doing, 186 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: including investments. And then somewhere in the course of that 187 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: first year was when we then began to raise a 188 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: larger pool of capital to provide production financing. And it's 189 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: from that pool of capital that we announced UH in 190 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, which was both equity and credit 191 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: facility of really just incredible investors and you know, Emerson 192 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: Collective who was our lead investor from both are holding 193 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: company launched, but we had other amazing strategic investors across 194 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: both the private equity, technology and just other strategics. And 195 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: then the same thing with our production financing UM. Capital 196 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: that we raised UM was from not only from Emerson, 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: but from a number of foundations and institutional capital and 198 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: family offices, and it was from that it was where 199 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: we are, you know, you know, co finance Down and 200 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Fences and Roman j Israel and and Sorry to Bother 201 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: in so many of the other movies that we've that 202 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: we've financed and produced and so UM that's the pool 203 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: of capital that we've continued to work from and so 204 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: that that's where are co financing on this on this movie. 205 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: Initially initial commitment came from that, and then as we 206 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: were in production on it, we all we have a 207 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: philosophy and a belief of of a portfolio approach to 208 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: our business. You never know, we all know that sometimes 209 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: the greatest movies can at times not work commercially, and 210 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: movies that you wouldn't expect to perform outperform. And we 211 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: like to use the equity as an accelerant to assist 212 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: in in getting stories like this told. But we also 213 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: want to make sure we are being smart as business 214 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: people and using and being judicious about it so we 215 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: can spread out the opportunity for expanding and doing more. 216 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: And so what we did in this case was we 217 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: like we always like to work with other great partners, 218 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: and in this case we've had a great experience with 219 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: Participant and Braun. I think Braun we've co financed two 220 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: other movies with Offences and Roman J and Participant. We 221 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: have a great relationship with David Lyndy and the whole 222 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: team there, and so we thought that they would bring 223 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: a value add from the marketing perspective to on the 224 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: social impact work that they do. So we brought in 225 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: them in as financial partners alongside of us and Warners 226 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: as we were deep into production and going into our 227 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: post process, and so they you know, that's how we 228 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: round it out, um some of our initial capital and 229 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: brought in partners. When you were first making the pitch 230 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: to investors for Macro, would you say that people got it? 231 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: Did it take education? Did it take did it take 232 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: a long time for people to understand what you were 233 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: talking about? Or did people recognize the need for the 234 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: kind of for the approach that you wanted to take, 235 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: which was so clearly ahead of the curve. And I'm 236 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: not just saying that to flatter you, like you were. 237 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: You so clearly had your sort of finger on the 238 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: pulse of where storytelling and where where entertainment was going 239 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: to go in terms of the opening to the great 240 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: opening to a much wider range of stories. Yes, so 241 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: I'm thank you for mentioning that, Cynthia. Yes, so, I 242 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: wrote the first business plan for Macro in two thousand 243 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: and ten. I think even at the initial the initial 244 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: business plan I wrote, I don't even think scandal was 245 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: on the air yet there was such a tremendous void 246 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: of opportunity. And I was a senior partner of de 247 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: Wu Met and represented artists across every sector. And I 248 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: would sitting in our packaging meetings and our our our 249 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: talent meetings, and our lip meetings, and there was just 250 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: no representation at all for UH, this marketplace that this 251 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: robust that makes makes up over more than half of 252 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: the people that buy tickets to movie theaters. There's certainly 253 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: not the adequate representation of those the green light movies 254 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: that represent the actual comes sumer base. And and they 255 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: were in all of the new financiers that were emerging, 256 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the independently positioned companies, none of whom 257 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: were also focused on this audience. And I would sit 258 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: there and even though I loved being an agent and 259 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: an artist advocate, the business opportunity and the opportunity for 260 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: our community was was just too too great and vast. 261 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: And I was doing a disservice to the community by 262 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: not actually taking the lead and making the jump to 263 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: launch the company. When I did this in two two fifteen, 264 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: it was absolutely a leap of faith when I did it. 265 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: And I will tell you that there were some people 266 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: that I did talk to that did not understand. They 267 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: didn't understand the fifteen year trajectory and all of the 268 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: artists that I represented and how that would trans you know, 269 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: translate into being able to launch the company like this 270 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: successfully and build it. But I will tell you that 271 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: when you when I got in front of the right people, 272 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: including these amazing investors I have, there wasn't even a question. 273 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: I mean they were beyond so portive and saw the 274 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: impact side, but most importantly they saw the business opportunity. 275 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: And uh, and I believe in life you have to 276 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: find the right partners for the long haul. And I 277 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: actually had walked away from numerous initial investors that I 278 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: had early conversations with um even when I announced that 279 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: I was leaving w ME to launch Macro. And so 280 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: the first six months in Macro, Uh, my wife and 281 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: I are we we self funded the company until I 282 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: could find the right partners and that's what we were 283 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: able to do. Mhm, wow, you know I mean that 284 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: that is a long journey. It's a succinct way of 285 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: of describing, though very undoubtedly what was a long journey 286 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: and a leap of faith for you and your wife 287 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: to you know, to take that. Have you been you 288 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: know now that you have been in business for a while, 289 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: are you, I guess you know the model is proving 290 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: to work. You have been obviously, you have released, You've 291 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: done a really prolific slate in a short amount of time, 292 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: and they have they have worked as businesses, business propositions 293 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: as well. Yes, so on the film financing front, of 294 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: all of the movies that we've financed, when you think 295 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: about it, we know the odds what percent working, and 296 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: then don't our odds are are much higher than that. Um, 297 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: I'd say that we're probably more in the other direction. 298 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: Have worked where we either recouped our capital and had 299 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: a return and that did not uh. And but I 300 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: would say that on the film side, we haven't had 301 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: that movie yet where it was the we haven't had 302 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: a franchise or um the massive box office return. But 303 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: we've definitely had above average returns on a large number 304 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: of the movies. We clearly have had critical acclaim and 305 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: been able to build a brand and a voice and 306 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: a relationship with content creators and artists and uh and 307 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 1: our and our relationship and respected. I think that to 308 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: be able to do that in this environment is six 309 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: years to become a go to company for this base. Authentically, 310 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: you couldn't put money on that, and there's just so 311 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: much tremendous value. And I would say our television business 312 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: where we initially dipped our toe in the water. We 313 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: started out as non writing executive producers on our first 314 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: couple of television shows, just to really get our feet 315 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: wet because a lot of our core competency had come 316 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: from film. And then when we assess the marketplace and 317 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: determined how to really build it, we then use the 318 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: capital from that we raise a production capital and are 319 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: now we were operating as a studio before, but without 320 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: but really having more of the non executive producer economics 321 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: attached to that. We're now co studio ing and so 322 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: our slate of all of our television products, and we 323 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: have amazing team where that you know, led by Martin Fernandez, 324 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: were now the studio on over a half dozen shows 325 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: and continuing to grow. That will be going into production 326 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: over the course of the next few years, and then 327 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: that will um become a lucrative business where we have 328 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: co ownership of a library of titles. And we think 329 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: that also to continues to put us at a seat 330 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: of power on behalf of the artists that we're working with, 331 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 1: and we're also able to share in the upside opportunity 332 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: with our partners in ways that traditional studios may not, 333 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: because a big part of our mission is not only 334 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: to grow real value for ourselves and for our investors 335 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: and and shareholder value for them in a long, long, 336 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: longer term asset value, but also too is to pass 337 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: some of that on to our partners creatively and business 338 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: wise such that it has a halo effect on our market. 339 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: And we're beginning to see that happen in many, many cases. 340 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Charles King after 341 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: the break, and we're back to hear more from Charles 342 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: King about the storytelling mission of Macro. Macro also kind 343 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: of kind of tracked the rise of the streaming revolution, 344 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: and the streamers have have a very different business model. 345 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: They in many cases there you know, there's a lower 346 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: barrier to entry than working for a streamer because you 347 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: know you're gonna get you know, most of your budget 348 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: up front, you'll get, you know your your your upside 349 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: may not be may not be as much wiggle room 350 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: in the upside, but you know what it's going to be. 351 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: Was any part of that something that kind of helped you, 352 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: especially as you were just getting you know, getting your 353 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: sea legs in the business. Was that important to you? 354 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: Was that that shift in the model. There's a reason 355 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: why I love your podcast, Cynthia. You're you really know 356 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: our business. Yes, at the great question, You're absolutely right. 357 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: The very first business plan that we wrote for macro Um, 358 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, was in two thousand and ten, 359 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: uh long friendship with with Tessa Randalls to Netflix and 360 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: and one of the things that I often kicked myself 361 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: in the ask far as I didn't buy Netflix stock 362 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: when I when I really know I should have because 363 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: I really could see where they were going as a business, 364 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: particularly once they started investing in original content. But I 365 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: very early on as part of our business plan, particularly 366 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: for television, was to get some early scores on the 367 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: board on streaming platforms, understanding that you know, they make 368 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: commitments and so frankly, our first television show was with 369 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: with Netflix with the Raising Dion and UH and that 370 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: was a way also to have brand extension and to 371 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: really get our feet wet. And that show was the 372 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: number ten show for the platform for all of two 373 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: thousand nineteen globally and it was the number one It's 374 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: the family show for for the entire platform around the world. 375 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: And this little this show with a young black kid 376 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: playing a superhero, they was seen all around the world. 377 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: That when we partnered with Michael B. Jordan's on that 378 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,239 Speaker 1: and I was the first television show for us as 379 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: a company and the first show for for his company, Outlier, 380 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: and we partnered together and it was a great launching 381 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: pad for us. And then we followed it up with 382 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: our show Dentified, which literally starts uh their second season 383 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: next week. And so those were the early days of 384 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: our television business. And then the the shift really started 385 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: happening with all of the new platforms coming coming market 386 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: obviously now Max and Disney Plus and Amazon, Apple, and 387 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: so we have projects with just about every one of them. 388 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: I think maybe Hulu is the one platform we don't 389 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: have anything with yet in terms of this dreaming platforms. 390 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: And these are places where in many cases we've been 391 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: able to establish the kind of co studio model. And 392 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: it sounds like for what you're building, it does you know, 393 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: you're not a factory, but volume does help. It does 394 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: help for you to have you know you can you 395 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 1: can retain the best, some of the best people, some 396 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: of the best below the line, if you can keep them, 397 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: if you can keep them working, and I would imagine yes, 398 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: as we as we definitely begin to pick up, we 399 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: that will also be a part of continue to spend 400 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: out and build infrastructure. UM. Right now we're not at 401 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: that peak model yet. We have two shows on the air, 402 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: but like I said, we have you know, a half 403 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: dozen or more that we believe should be ramping up 404 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: within the next year to eighteen months and uh and 405 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: so that will play a part of it. And of 406 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: course clearly there's the proliferation of UM unscripted content and docuseries, 407 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: and we have a whole business around that as well 408 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: that we're beginning to build out, which we think is complementary. 409 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 1: But the one thing I think that's always important too 410 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: is to think about flexibility, and that's one of the 411 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: things we also try to do is understand that there 412 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: are many cases where where of course it's great where 413 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: you can be the studio or coat studio, but then 414 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: there are some cases where you're just an executive producer 415 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: because that's that was the right fit the cable network 416 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: that perhaps isn't open to a studio because so many 417 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: of the companies are vertically integrated and they don't want 418 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: to have an independent studio. So you what we we 419 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: never want to do is have the business aspect of 420 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: what we're building stand in the way of great artists 421 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: and storytelling opportunities for us. And so that's a good 422 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: thing with us being small and nimble enough where we 423 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: can we can um adapt when necessary. Um. But you 424 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: just have to have flexibility, particularly as my market continues 425 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: to shift and change. Speaking of flexibility, obviously Judice in 426 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: the Black Psiah, there's in a bit of a you know, 427 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: for for all Warner Brothers releases as every as you know, 428 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: everybody in the industry knows and has been talking about, 429 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: how do you feel about the situation? How do you 430 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: feel about the day and date premier strategy with HBO, 431 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: MAXI and theaters. On an intellectual business level, I understand 432 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: the decision that they made, you know, I understand it 433 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: was that it was required and necessary for them to 434 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: continue to expand and grow their business and to build 435 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: a directed consumer platform for UH for A T and 436 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: T and time Warner particularly post that merger and shareholder 437 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: value they have to build that out and there, and 438 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: they are right now their numbers are nascent compared to 439 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: Disney Plus and where Netflix is and and and so 440 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: that they needed to make a bold move in order 441 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: to um uh to to expand and and and the 442 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: decision to announce to have all of their slate day 443 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: and date released. I think, um it was a bold 444 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: move and they need they needed to make a bold 445 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: move in order to do that. And I think that 446 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: there were probably ways I would have preferred, I'm sure 447 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: all of the other artists and business partners of those 448 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: other seventeen films to be how it was messaged in 449 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: the conversations. But I could also understand the challenge of 450 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: having all of those beforehand. But if once you do it, 451 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: I mean you think about it. You go back to 452 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: when Netflix launched with House of Cards, they made an 453 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: unprecedented deal with David Fincher, right, they created a real 454 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: relationship as well as all of the early days of 455 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: the content creators who were working there. They had a 456 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: lot of creative autonomy and in many cases they still do. 457 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: I have a lot of flexibility and what the commitment 458 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: that they've made to us on the movie we're shooting 459 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: right now is pretty extraordinary for a first time filmmaker, 460 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: right to make sure we're safe in the middle of 461 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: COVID now we're shooting this movie and the COVID cost loan. 462 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: And so I'd say, if you're looking to really build 463 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: out that base, you you can't. You can't. You want 464 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: to make sure you continue the relationship with the artists 465 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: and you're creative and business partners that you're going to 466 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: keep being in business with. And I think there was 467 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: some ripple effect that and how that was handled UM 468 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: and and and also the understanding that each one of 469 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: those movies are unique in terms of their distribution plan 470 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: and their opportunity for them. And in our case with 471 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: our film, you know, with it being day and day 472 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: in February, the pandemic was raging at is very little 473 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: opportunity for theatrical and our movie because of our the 474 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: subject matter, and just it's not based on I p 475 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: like Godzilla where it could be do as well right 476 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: now internationally. It's the type of film like um A 477 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: straight out of Compton, or Black Klansmen or Hidden Figures, 478 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: that that could work really well domestically but could also 479 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: then use that to platform you internationally, and because we 480 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: don't have that opportunity to domestically, it could impact us. 481 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: So you bring it out February, it almost like limits 482 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: where it's gonna go business wise. So that's that was challenge. 483 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: Would your preference have been to delay it, delay the 484 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: relations That's where you weigh it all out. The movie 485 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: is so topical and so real and at the moment 486 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: now I completely would understand why we would have this 487 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: movie out and now. And then that's where you just 488 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: then you have to think about, well, then what's the 489 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: appropriate business deal for something like that, considering that the 490 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: equity came from these from yeah, three parties that own 491 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: more of the equity. Right in giving your background, I 492 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: know that I have no doubt that you knew you 493 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: knew the way to get to that, the path to 494 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 1: that fair deal. Yes, you know, with the high end 495 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: of a success like those movies would have been in 496 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: a pre COVID world or in a post COVID world. Uh, 497 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: you have a high, mid and low end. And so 498 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: I think that we have such a great experience with that. 499 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: We want more. We want HBO Max to work. That's 500 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: only good for the business period. I think gives all 501 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: of us, all the all the business people and content 502 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: creators and artists a new a great platform. And obviously 503 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: the amazing portfolio of work from HBO is there as well, 504 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean the quality level of everything on HBO. So 505 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: I hope that did it. We need it. I think 506 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: as an industryould be great for it to do exploiting 507 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: arly well, and we're excited that it's going to be 508 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: on the platform. And then for those that are excited 509 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: to see it in theaters and can be safe, you know, 510 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: as long as they're able to be safe and seeing it, 511 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, then we it's a great experience, right And 512 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, the potentially the h on an HBO Max 513 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: or a Netflix in terms of the goal of getting 514 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: people to see the movie, actually the streaming platforms, I 515 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: mean you really have to have them lined up around 516 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 1: the block to get the number of people that might 517 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: see it on a weekend on an HBO Max in 518 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: buying tickets, so it's it's an interesting trade off. I 519 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: think a film like this, when the people who are 520 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: subscribers at a CEO match or though that they're trying 521 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: to get there were three images that went out to 522 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: them for that seventeen film Slate. It was Godzilla Dune 523 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: and it was our film. And I believe our film 524 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: and the audience that's out there for it. I know 525 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: many many family members. You know, you can test the 526 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: market when you talk to people that don't work in 527 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: Hollywood and there's a lot of them that don't have 528 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: HBO Max and they're like, oh, I gotta get it 529 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: now to watch that movie. And I believe they will 530 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: see they will see an uptick there. There could not 531 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: be a more in the moment need to see this 532 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: film for the culture right now. Then then our film, 533 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 1: I believe the one that this movie that Shaka King directed, 534 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: um and I think that it will bring a wider 535 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: audience days feel Matt. Thanks for listening. Please leave us 536 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: a review at Apple Podcasts. We love to hear from listeners, 537 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: and be sure to tune in next week for another 538 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: episode of Strictly Business.