1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: my name is Nol. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. Welcome back to the show, 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist. We might be embarking on a two 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 3: part episode this week. We're not sure. We have a 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: lot of thoughts about this. It's something pretty important to 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 3: all of us. We wanted to begin tonight's exploration with 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: a question, do you believe in guardian angels or do 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 3: it was someone who does. 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 4: Jeez, that is a big question, because it's like, you know, 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 4: you could think of someone in your life who looks 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 4: out for you as like a corporeal embodiment of the 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 4: idea of a guardian angel, and you could certainly use 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 4: that like as a stand in conversationally, like so and 22 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 4: so my best friend is my real guardian angel. But 23 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 4: then you have to think about it too from the 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 4: kind of more spiritual side, and that's where things get 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 4: a little trickier to kind of parse out for me. 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, Matt saved my life a couple of times. 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: Actually, same, same, same, you guys, same you guys. I 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: I don't necessarily believe in an angel, right, which is 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: an interesting part of the show, because the thing that 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: would be described as an angel can be described and 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: thought of in so many other ways, and it's depending 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: on the lens. 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the cultural framework is a huge deal. Is 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 3: this just a a higher educational power? Is there a demon? Right? 35 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: You know? Whether not a given deity is considered demonic 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 3: or angelic kind of depends on the culture and the 37 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 3: way the Great Game of Telephone works out. It's weird, right, 38 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: It's a question that is automatically divisive, because if you 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: answer yes to the idea of guardian angels, then you're 40 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: also required to say yes to a lot of other things, 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: the presence of an afterlife, the concept of supernatural forces, 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: and as we always say, your personal spiritual beliefs are 43 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: your own. No one has ever had a spiritual belief 44 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 3: that the rest of the world one hundred percent agrees with. 45 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 4: Oh, well, you know, and also, like I mean, we're 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 4: talking about what one belief kind of then begets. Is 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 4: if there is a guardian angel on one shoulder, like 48 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 4: the classic cartoon example, is there also a demon on 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 4: your other shoulder fighting against your best interests? 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah? What What are the mechanics of a given 51 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: spiritual system? Right? Is there some kind of new tone 52 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: in relationship between good and evil such that an equal 53 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 3: and opposite force shall always be generated? That's weird. I 54 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: sound a little off base there, but we have to 55 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 3: say this. The bulk of human science has yet to 56 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 3: acknowledge an afterlife, much less the idea of purportedly spiritual guardians, 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 3: or have they. We're doing a setup. That's a setup. 58 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. 59 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 3: Here are the facts. Welcome to the story of the 60 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: third Man syndrome. Sometimes also called a third man factor. 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: The name is derived from a passage that ts Elliott 62 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: wrote in his haunting poem The Wasteland, which also if 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: you like good stuff, you should read it in full, 64 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: but specifically third Man factor is inspired by this passage. 65 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 4: Who is the third who walks always beside you. When 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 4: I count, there are only you and I together. 67 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: But when I look ahead up the white road, there 68 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: was always another one walking beside. 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 3: You, gliding wrapped in a brown mantle, hooded. I do 70 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 3: not know whether a man or a woman. 71 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 4: But who is that on the other side of you? 72 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: All right, because it's poetry, we're gonna do finger snaps 73 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: instead of claps. Hey, good job ts. 74 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a beautiful poem. I've been you've You've mentioned that, 75 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: or at least referenced that several times because it is 76 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: a long poem, right, I think this is in like 77 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: the fifth section of the poem. It's wonderful. I just 78 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: reread it. I'm sure you guys did too. 79 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 4: It's just guys, I can't help but think of that 80 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 4: footprints thing people talk about, you know, about Jesus with 81 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 4: He's like he was standing walking alongside you all the time, 82 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 4: and the other set of footprints when they went away 83 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 4: with when he was carrying you. That's kind of I 84 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 4: feel like reference this. 85 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: The Lord replied, my son, my precious child, I love you, 86 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: and I would never leave you during your times of 87 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: trial and suffering. When you see only one set of footprints, 88 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: it was then that I carried you exactly. 89 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: I don't want some dude carrying me around. 90 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 4: Hey, come on, man, he's yoked, man, he can he 91 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 4: can pull it off. 92 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 3: It's okay, Yeah, it's uh. He's a classic persistence hunter. 93 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: It just weird. 94 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 4: Uh. 95 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 3: This idea both a poem and the prayer that we're 96 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 3: citing there, they describe a bizarre phenomena across time and culture. 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 3: During traumatic experiences, human beings often report sensing an unseen presence, 98 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 3: sometimes hearing a voice, sometimes walking or encountering something they 99 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: think they do see a human stranger. Yet when this 100 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 3: third man appears, it is never a threat. It is 101 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 3: a comforting in spe irene or helpful ally, and it 102 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: only shows up at critical life or death moments, and 103 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 3: afterwards the survivors often claim this thing, whatever it is, 104 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 3: this helpful stranger, saved their life. 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really weird. And it's almost always like a 106 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: human or a human like thing. That's why you get 107 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 2: the angel, right, that's why you get that entity, that 108 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: other entity, but is human like. So it's not I 109 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: don't know, it's it's corporeal in some way and humanoid. 110 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is There are so many stories about 111 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 3: these occurrences with just with a couple of quotations there 112 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 3: you can see this date's deep back into history. One 113 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: of the best books about this and shout out to 114 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: our pal Dylan Fagan, there is the third Man factor, 115 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 3: Surviving the Impossible by a guy named John Geiger, and 116 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 3: in his book, which definitely should read if you're interested 117 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 3: in this stuff, you'll see a litany of car helicopter 118 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: playing crashes, people lost in the wilderness, people getting shot 119 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: with firearms, other traumatic injuries. Whatever the case may be. 120 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: It appears that in any situation there are at least 121 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: a handful of instances involving a mysterious presence that shows 122 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: up at just the right time and then disappears once 123 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: the danger is passed, and the survivors this is a 124 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: weird thing. The survivors are certain of what they've experienced, 125 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 3: and they might ask family members, They might ask first responders, 126 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: what happened to that person who pulled me from the fire, 127 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: what happened to that person who led me out of 128 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: the building on September eleventh, And the response is always 129 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: there was no one there. 130 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 4: There's a perk you can get in one of the 131 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: fallout games called the Mysterious Stranger Perk, where like this 132 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 4: dude in a Fedora will come and like, you know, 133 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 4: take out a bunch of the means that are coming 134 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: for you and then vanish like Kaiser soose. 135 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think that character has always got like 136 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: a long coat on. Yeah, always shows up in the 137 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: VATS system when you exactly that's. 138 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: What I'll ail the VAT system. Yeah. 139 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: Well, well, okay, So this book is fantastic and if 140 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: you want to check out a video version of it, 141 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: if you've got some time to hang out, there's I 142 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: think it's called Idea City, a talk that John Geiger 143 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: gave about this book and about the findings, and it's 144 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: just great. You can look at up on YouTube right now. 145 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 3: You could also, if you're a little more pressed for time, 146 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 3: there's a great primer interview he has on NPR with 147 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 3: our buddy guy Roz. Guy. We haven't met, but we 148 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 3: do have a parasocial relationship with you. Sorry, sorry, Bud, 149 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. So one of the most famous 150 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: documented examples about this As a matter of fact, we 151 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: were talking about fair One of the things that likely 152 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 3: informed ts Eliot was a guy named Sir Ernest Shackleton. 153 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 4: He was. 154 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: For anybody who's seen The Terror, I know we all 155 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: love that novel series and that show. This guy Shackleton 156 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 3: is in his prime around the time that Europe was 157 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: sending a lot of people to all sorts of whack 158 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: could do places. He was in a nineteen fourteen to 159 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: nineteen seventeen Antarctic expedition and their boat, the Endurance, became 160 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: trapped in ice for about two years. It kind of now, 161 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: I hope this is in the hot take. It kind 162 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 3: of sucked. 163 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh boy, that would suck. So this is definitely 164 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 4: the actual historical event that influenced The Terror, because that's 165 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 4: that's what happens. They get like locked in ice and 166 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 4: they begin to starve and run out of provisions and 167 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 4: also lose their minds. 168 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 3: Unfortunately. Yeah, this was not a singular occurrence, so Simmons 169 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: is kind of writing about a genre of bad stuff happening. 170 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 3: When Shackleton and his crew get jammed up literally in 171 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 3: the ice, he and two companions say, the only way 172 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: we're going to make it out of here is if 173 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 3: we take a very dangerous journey on foot. So they 174 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: trek across mountain ranges where humans are not meant to be. 175 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: The humans have not been to right, there's no names 176 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: for these things that we know of, well, at least 177 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: he describes it in that way. I think like unnamed mountainous. 178 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, very lovecraftied the Mountains of Madness right right exactly. 179 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 3: And they go across glaciers and the whole thing is 180 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 3: they're hoping, hoping against the odds that they can reach 181 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: a whaling station in Stromness Bay. Somehow they survive. There's 182 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 3: three of them, and after they survive, when they return 183 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: to civilization, they unanimously credit their survival to an unidentified 184 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: fourth traveler whom they all thought. They were all convinced 185 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: this guy they did not know was with them every 186 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 3: step of the way and was their guide, was telling 187 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: them where to go and how. 188 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: To get there, basically encouraging them the entire way. 189 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 3: Right. 190 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: It's almost like it's the problem solving part of all 191 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: of their minds where it went together into this fourth 192 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: person and they just said, this is what we do, 193 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: now go, you know, like that. 194 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 3: Kind of thing they so much shared between three people 195 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 3: three moves. 196 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 4: But I mean, is the idea that this is some 197 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 4: sort of collective delusion, This is some sort of product 198 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 4: of ice madness. 199 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 3: This is the thing that haunts these explorers for the 200 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 3: rest of their natural lives. As a matter of fact, 201 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: we have a couple of quotations, one from Shackelford's seminal 202 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: work on his expeditions, called simply south because you know 203 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 3: it's Antarctica. This is kind of a long quotation, but 204 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 3: I suggest we round robin it because it gives us 205 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 3: a real sense of place. 206 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: When I look back at those days, I have no 207 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 4: doubt that Providence guided us not only across the snowfields, 208 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 4: but across the storm white Sea that separated Elephant Island 209 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 4: from our landing place on South Georgia. 210 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: I know that during that long and racking march of 211 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: thirty six hours over the unnamed mountains and glaciers of 212 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: South Georgia, it seemed to me often that there were 213 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 2: four not three. 214 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: I said nothing to my companions on the point, but 215 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 3: afterwards Worsley said to me, balss I had a curious 216 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 3: feeling on the march that there was another person with us. 217 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 4: Cream confessed to the same idea. One feels the dearth 218 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: of human words, the roughness of mortal speech in trying 219 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 4: to describe things intangible. But a record of our journeys 220 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 4: would be incomplete without a reference to a subject very 221 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 4: near to our hearts. 222 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: And before we get to the next part, let's remember, 223 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 3: let's acknowledge that during this particular era of exploration, it 224 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: was not uncommon for authors to embellish, to judge up 225 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: their stories a little bit so that they could sell 226 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 3: books and do lectures more successfully. However, this case is different. 227 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 3: It's not one of those, because, as our buddy indicates, 228 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: his companions one hundred percent unanimously agreed with him. In fact, 229 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 3: one of them, Frank Worsley, who he just mentioned, he 230 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: later went on to write something eerily similar. 231 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: He said, there was indeed one thing about our crossing 232 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: of South Georgia, a thing which I have never been 233 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 2: able to explain. Whenever I reviewed the incidents of that march, 234 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 2: I had the subconscious feeling that there were four of 235 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: us instead of three, and. 236 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 4: Guys, I couldn't help. But you know, remark on in 237 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 4: the in the beginning of the previous quotation, the word 238 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 4: Providence is capitalized, and I just for a second I 239 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 4: was like, is was that the name they gave to 240 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 4: this unseen helper? But it is a religious word that 241 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 4: is imbued with like godlike power, and it really does 242 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 4: refer specifically to divine guardianship from a deity or a god, 243 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 4: and often people of faith thank God for his quote 244 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 4: unquote providence exactly. 245 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, Providence is in this milieu. It is a way 246 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: to attempt to explain how you managed not to die 247 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: when the odds were so against you. 248 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Well, I before you move on to another example, 249 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: just there's another one that I'm coming that's coming to 250 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: mind because it's so old and I'm trying to imagine 251 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: like these older written down experiences like this. It's like 252 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: nineteen fifteen, nineteen seventeen kind of era. Back in eighteen 253 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: ninety five, there was this guy, Joshua Slocumbe that is 254 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: also described by John Geiger in his book Who He 255 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: It's just so weird to me, this one. All of 256 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: these are weird, but this one was particularly strange to 257 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: me because of maybe the physical aspect of it. This 258 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: is a dude who's he's a sailor. He's like a 259 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: captain of a ship. He stops off in port eats 260 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: a bunch of cheese. Apparently some of that cheese starts 261 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: to mess with his system. He gets really really really 262 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: sick cheese madness. Well as as he gets back onto 263 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 2: a ship and sails it out in the Indian Ocean, 264 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: and as he's going there's a terrible storm and he's 265 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: so sick that he basically passes out. And then he 266 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: has this remembrance of waking up and seeing a person, 267 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: a tall man, manning the wheel and the dude says 268 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: to him, hey, we're I'm gonna get you through this 269 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 2: night to safety basically where and the dude passes back 270 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: out slom and then wakes up and he's safe and 271 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: everything's cool. 272 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know it's funny too, though. There are 273 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 4: often also accounts of people at death's door, you know, 274 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 4: at the very ends of their lives, seeing a third 275 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 4: person that does not rescue them from death, but rather 276 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,359 Speaker 4: shepherds them into death. 277 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: Or tells them to turn around. It goes And I 278 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: love that we're mentioning Slocum, who is an historical figure 279 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: that I wish more people read. His book Sailing Alone 280 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 3: around the World. Is a stem disturned banger. Yes that's 281 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 3: a ship joke. There's also a there's a great song 282 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 3: about him by a group called rail Yard Ghost and 283 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: it's the Ballad of Joshua Slocomb. It's also great. But 284 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: this is I love that we're pointing this out because 285 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: it seems that we see already one thing in common. 286 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: People are not having this happen on a regular Tuesday, right. No, 287 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 3: you're not not late for Blockbuster. That's a dated reference. 288 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 3: You're not like late to go by a case ada 289 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: and then a mysterious stranger shows up and helps you 290 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 3: through traffic. The stakes have to be pretty high for 291 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 3: the third man to appear. 292 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 2: It reminds me of the veil concept that's referenced a 293 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 2: lot in several different religious sets of beliefs, as well 294 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 2: as in popular culture. Where as you get closer to that, 295 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 2: the actual veil that separates this world from whatever the 296 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 2: next one is, sure, it's almost like you become visible 297 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 2: to that other side, and perhaps something from the other 298 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 2: side comes into either again, as you were saying, pull 299 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: you in or put get you out of there, it's 300 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: not your time yet or something, or maybe just guide 301 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: your ship. 302 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 3: The void stares back, right, And so much fiction is 303 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 3: full of this idea. Again. Lovecraft really dug this concept 304 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 3: that if that the idea of true perception or enhanced 305 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 3: perception is a two way street. The ability that a 306 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 3: human may have to see beyond the mortal pale also 307 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: makes them more visible. And this is to your excellent point, Matt. 308 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: This is something that we see across cultures and across 309 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 3: spiritual belief systems. 310 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the thing that always gets me. When you 311 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 4: start seeing all of those parallels and synchronicities between cultures 312 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 4: and religions separated by you know, thousands and thousands of 313 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 4: miles and language barriers and all that. That's where my 314 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: head really starts to begin to believe in this kind 315 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 4: of thing. 316 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 3: It's fascinating. Right, will pause for a moment for a 317 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 3: word from our sponsors, and we'll be right back. And 318 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 3: we've returned. While we're sticking with explorers, do we want 319 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about Frank Smith? 320 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 5: Oh dude, mister Smithe yes, yes Smith, if you yes, 321 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 5: because that's smyt still an explorer nineteen thirty three, he is. 322 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 3: We don't want to talk trash about him. Okay. Way 323 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 3: before climbing Mount Everest became an environmentally dangerous proposition for 324 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 3: the world, this guy was one of the front runners 325 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 3: to summit Everest, which means reaching the top of this 326 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 3: cartoonish mountain, and the journey to the top was an 327 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 3: absolute disaster and honestly not surprising it would be. So 328 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 3: he had a hiking party with him. They fell back 329 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 3: as they ascended the mountain because the wind was brutal. 330 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: There's snow everywhere, there's dangerous unstable ice, and of course 331 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 3: there's a lot of low oxygen, which we'll play into 332 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 3: our exploration tonight. Our buddy Frank, though he continues, is 333 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: on when the others fall back, and he does not 334 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 3: summit Everest. He misses it by just one thousand feet. 335 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 3: But unlike many other people in the past and you 336 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 3: know in the present who attempt to climb Everest, he survives, 337 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: and he thinks he survives because somebody helped him. 338 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 2: It's really weird because he did have a bunch of 339 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: companions with him, right, so he already has this sense 340 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: of companionship as he's making his way up. Then he 341 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 2: gets to that point you're talking about Ben, where he 342 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: he's like, now, okay, I'm now I'm on my own, 343 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: and something stays with him there and it's not like 344 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 2: he just had that sensation, right, he acted. 345 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 3: On it, right. Yeah, and this is something that you 346 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 3: know right to us with your own accounts here. We 347 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: think this will be personal to a lot of our 348 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist conspiracydiheartradio dot com. Have you ever had 349 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 3: a moment where you knew that you might be losing it, 350 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 3: like a couple badgers might be falling out of your 351 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 3: cognitive bag, because Frank does. He is later writing his 352 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 3: diary and he says, Oh, I had this moment where 353 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 3: I realized something was not all the pistons were firing 354 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: the way they should because I pulled out a slab 355 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 3: of something called kindle mint cake. 356 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 2: I've heard it's like a not a candy bar, but 357 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: something similar to that. That's what I think about it. 358 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, peppermints, brittle of some sort perhaps. 359 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 3: Something like Yeah. And he breaks it in half and 360 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 3: he turns around. He's like, Oh, I'm gonna give the 361 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 3: other half to this guy's with me and there's no 362 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: one there, and he thinks. 363 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 4: Oh, whoops. 364 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 6: Isn't that funny though? The idea of thinking about the 365 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 6: moment where you you're the you meta cognitively, No, you're right, 366 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 6: you're not experiencing things accurately, and yet there you are 367 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 6: having that experience in media arrests. 368 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 4: I look forward to it, fellas I look forward to 369 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 4: being aware of my own descent into madness. 370 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: You say that now, but I know you guys from 371 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 3: the front lines. It's I'm not having a grand. 372 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 4: Now, I'm not even wait wait a minute, and now 373 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 4: you're fine, man, don't don't don't worry. 374 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: I can't count on my looks forever. But I appreciate that. Well. 375 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: I want to get back into Smith because he's got 376 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: a great quote here. Yes, but just I want to 377 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: add this one thing. When my grandfather was on his 378 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 2: deathbed and we talked about this, I think in a 379 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: couple other episodes, but that thing that happens right as 380 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 2: you're about to pass over, where he was referencing things 381 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 2: that he was seeing in the ceiling and people and 382 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: stuff and objects, and he was seeing it and experiencing 383 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: it in real time, and it just you know, that's 384 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: another common thing, right, Oh oh, you'll hear someone who's 385 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 2: on their deathbed exclaim oh there you are, and talking 386 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: about someone specific. It does make me also make a 387 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 2: connection to that here where he is, Smith is on 388 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: the edge. He is not doing great. The reason he 389 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: has to turn back is because he's almost dead. Its 390 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,719 Speaker 2: terrible conditions. There's no way he's gonna make it if 391 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: he keeps going. But whatever this thing is he feels 392 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: is there. 393 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, he says. All the time that I was climbing alone, 394 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 3: I had a strong feeling that I was accompanied by 395 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 3: a second person. The feeling was so strong that it 396 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 3: completely eliminated listen to this part, completely eliminated all loneliness. 397 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 3: I might otherwise have felt. 398 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: Whoa and like you. 399 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: Were saying, no, he's he's aware. 400 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, it's encouragement, right, It's it's someone is pushing someone, 401 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 2: someone physically is essentially that you have the sensation that 402 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: someone is physically pushing you to keep going. 403 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and these guys are not crackpots. We gotta point 404 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 3: that out. These are not These are not the hippies 405 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 3: of their time by any measure or means. These are, 406 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 3: in the case of explorers in particular, hard practical individuals. Sure, 407 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 3: they probably all have their own set of closely held 408 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: spiritual beliefs, but that just means they're the kind of 409 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: guys who will pray while they're also double checking their gear. 410 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 7: That's right. 411 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, these are guys that are experienced, seasoned, you know, 412 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 4: wilderness he dudes. They know how to survive in a 413 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 4: pinch and would not rely on the divine you know 414 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 4: as such. 415 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, their idea being that whatever divine forces may exist, 416 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 3: you still have to prepare yourself for life in the 417 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 3: real brutal world. And look, we're talking about this often 418 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 3: rose colored glasses age of exploration. It launched a thousand 419 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: novels and a thousand travelogues and so on, but it's 420 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: important to the third man factor still exists in the 421 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: modern day. You'll hear stories from yeah, historical figures, a 422 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 3: lot of them. Actually, you'll hear stories from a lot 423 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 3: of military veterans, and some of the audience may have 424 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: had this experience as you're hearing this tonight. You'll also 425 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 3: hear much more recent stories like people who survived nine 426 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: to eleven. We refer to this at the start of 427 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: our exploration, but maybe we should talk a little bit 428 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 3: more about Ron de Francesco. 429 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: Ron de Francesco has this crazy story where he's working 430 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 2: in the South Tower. He is a money market trader. 431 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: It is nine to eleven. 432 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 3: He's on the eighty fourth floor. 433 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's above the impact that occurs in the South 434 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: Tower that day. So he goes into the stairwell. It's 435 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: filled with smoke, there's fire down below in the stairwell. 436 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 2: He has to get down on his stomach and he's 437 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: just there, as you would, panicking, right, what the heck 438 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: am I gonna do here? And he said there were 439 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: people around him who had just kind of given up. 440 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: There were people who were just you know, crying, wailing, 441 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 2: and he felt something someone physically touch him, grab his 442 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: hand and pull him down towards the fire, and this thing, 443 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 2: whatever it was, gave him courage and just said, come on, 444 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 2: we have to go. If you want to live, go now. 445 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: And he went down through the fire like push through 446 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 2: the fire and debris that was there, made it down 447 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: the stairwell where it looked normal and everything was fine. 448 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: And he ended up being the final person out of 449 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 2: the South Tower before it collapsed. 450 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 3: The last person out of the South Tower before it collapsed. Yeah, 451 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 3: and Thomas S. Geiger talks about this quite quite in depth. Also. 452 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 3: You know, if we assume Ron's perspective here, then it 453 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: makes sense that you wouldn't see the person because of 454 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 3: all the smoke and the chaos. So now it's just 455 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 3: an any port in a storm situation. 456 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 2: But it wasn't a person. It was just him. 457 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 3: That person, if they do indeed exist, have never identified themselves. 458 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: They have never been found. There is no record of 459 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 3: a second person accompanying Raun outside of the South Town. 460 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 4: Well, guys, do you think there's a difference or a 461 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 4: separation between third man syndrome and just good old fashioned 462 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 4: divine intervention? 463 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 3: That's the question, Guardian Angel Or is there another explanation. 464 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 4: Well, I guess I just mean like not manifesting as 465 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 4: an individual, but maybe like getting a premonition, you know, 466 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 4: hearing something on the radio that you interpret in such 467 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 4: a way that leads you to take an action that 468 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 4: ultimately ends up saving your life. Things like that. 469 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's difficult because often when people explore or navigate 470 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 3: or interrogate the idea of divine intervention, they're doing so 471 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 3: with the benefit of retrospect. 472 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 4: That's very true. 473 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can get our full divine intervention ideas. I 474 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: think an episode that came out last year. It's way 475 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: October November last year. 476 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this actually harkens back to many other episodes 477 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 3: we've done, we'll recommend them as as we're as we're 478 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: exploring this. But our question now is, what's the deal? 479 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: Why have so many people from widely disparate backgrounds, Why 480 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 3: have so many people throughout history encountered this phenomena even 481 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 3: before it had a name? Is the third Man syndrome 482 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 3: just a more secular way of believing in the supernatural? 483 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 3: Could it somehow be possible for us to truly understand 484 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: what's going on here? 485 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: And with that, we're gonna break just for a moment 486 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: here from our sponsors. We'll be right back, and we've returned. 487 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 3: Where it gets crazy. Maybe, you know, maybe we all 488 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 3: have very spiritual people or very religious people in our lives. 489 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 3: And after talking with some of those folks, you know, 490 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 3: I was speaking with some monks about this a while 491 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: back out there in Knyr's Georgia. For people of that, 492 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 3: you know, pre existing belief system, all the explanation you 493 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: need is helpful spirits or angels or divine intervention. Why 494 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 3: would you look at gift horus in the mouth just 495 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: thank your lucky stars that you survived, you know what 496 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 3: I mean? 497 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true, it's true, And I mean so often, 498 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 4: you know, these types of phenomenon that we describe are 499 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 4: kind of ways of codifying or of like, you know, 500 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 4: making manifest things that religions can explain, you know, in 501 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 4: and of themselves. They don't need science, they don't need 502 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 4: any other like rational explanation. But you know, as thinking individuals, 503 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 4: we oftentimes are looking for that if we're not fully 504 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 4: just able to just on faith. Right. 505 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 6: Yeah. 506 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 3: The way I like to put it is science attempts 507 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: to answer how a thing occurs. Religion attempts to answer why. 508 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 4: Hmm. 509 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: I like that because it does feel as though if 510 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: you experience something like that, this third Man syndrome, whatever 511 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: it is, you feel as though it helped you through 512 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: and survive a situation. In my mind, that individual who 513 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: survived would want to in some way devote themselves to 514 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: whatever that thing was. 515 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 3: Right. 516 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: If is this a part of some religious belief? Is 517 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: this part of some spiritual thing that I'm currently not 518 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: connected to that I maybe should be more. 519 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 3: Like MDes near death experiences, the transform the transformative, the 520 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 3: transformative thanks folks still learning English. The transformative aspects of 521 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 3: this are similar to the overview effect that astronauts encounter 522 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 3: when they see the world from above. It makes you 523 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 3: rethink your priorities in your place in reality. 524 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 4: You know, we talked about this pretty recently, at least 525 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 4: this year, the overview effect, And I think it came 526 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 4: up that William Shatner, you know, who went into space. 527 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 4: He had a very distinctly different experience of the overview effect, 528 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 4: where he experienced it very negatively, not in a way 529 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 4: of like the grandeur of the universe, but in a 530 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 4: way of like, boy, are we fucked right? 531 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: Also, the overview effect is not super friendly to people 532 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 3: with big egos, not saying that's will I haven't met. 533 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: Him, but hey, well not also that feeling that, oh shoot, 534 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 2: we're alone on that thing. 535 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is everybody is living on a non consensual spaceship. 536 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 3: Welcome to Earth. Other people, though, are not immediately just 537 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: taking this as it is. A lot of folks will 538 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: not look a metaphysical gift horse in the mouth. Right. 539 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: Whatever happened, however it came to be, whatever providence smiled 540 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 3: upon me, Thank you. I'll keep it moving, I'll try 541 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 3: to be better. But other folks are increasingly interested in 542 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 3: solving this mystery. Can we explain the thing? The humans 543 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 3: are the great artificers. We want to know the mechanisms, 544 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: they say. So there's this interview we mentioned on MPR 545 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 3: with Guy Roz talking with Geiger. You can hear a 546 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: bunch of other stuff. Again, we cannot overemphasize how good 547 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 3: this book is. He is one of the world's foremost 548 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 3: experts on third Man factor, and he says, look, science 549 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 3: may provide some answers. Spirituality and science do not have 550 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: to be diametrically opposed. They can coexist. And he says, look, first, 551 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 3: you don't have to be spiritual to have these kind 552 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: of inexplicable experiences. If that was true, then how come 553 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 3: atheists and skeptics and other non believers still have the 554 00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 3: same thing happen? 555 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 2: Dude, another great place of throwing an example here Jerry Lenninger, 556 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 2: who was on the Mere space Station in the late nineties, 557 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: I think ninety seven. There were a series of like 558 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 2: terrible events that occurred on the Mere space station. We're 559 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 2: talking like big old fires when you're floating around there 560 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: in orbit on the Mere space station. And Jerry, who 561 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: is at least is described by Geiger as very scientifically minded. 562 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: You know, this is a dude with PhDs medical degrees. 563 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: Very serious. Again, Geiger describes him as scientifically minded. He's 564 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: up there going through these things, and he says he's 565 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 2: guided by some other presence that is not physically on 566 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 2: you know, mere space station with him, but is guiding 567 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 2: him and telling him solutions to problems. Right, Yeah, like these, 568 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: in these terrifying situations. There's this other presence that he 569 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: kind of attributes to his father. So for somebody who 570 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: isn't isn't religiously minded, perhaps it's like a in ancestors 571 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 2: kind of connection or someone else he's passed on because 572 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 2: his dad had died a couple of years back when 573 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: he was going through this, and he attributed this presence. 574 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 4: To his dad. 575 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, because he was primed to do so. As we'll 576 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 3: get to as we'll see. You know, this is a 577 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 3: big point. The first clue to solving this case hinges 578 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 3: upon perspective to kind of what you're saying. Earlier survivors 579 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 3: all experience this presence, however they may explain it as 580 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 3: something outside of them external. So our question begins with 581 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 3: most of critical thoughts, or a lot of it is 582 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 3: reinterpreting how you frame a question. So what if the 583 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 3: answer to the third Man mystery can be found not 584 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 3: outside but within the person experiencing it. That's where we 585 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 3: get to the science. 586 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, at its core, third Man syndrome is really most 587 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 4: easily described or explained as a coping mechanism. I think 588 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 4: we've been hinting at that kind of all along. When 589 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 4: we as you know, thinking, feeling terrified, often human beings 590 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 4: are in a situation that threatens our existence. Our minds 591 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 4: are pretty malleable and can play some pretty interesting and 592 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 4: often functional tricks on us. They can create these worlds, 593 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 4: these hallucinatory sensory experiences that help us parse something that 594 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 4: feels unparsable. 595 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. I have a side question has nothing to do 596 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 3: with our exploration this week. What is cope? Like? I 597 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 3: see it on the Internet where they say, oh, that's 598 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 3: a cope? Is it bad? 599 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 4: Well, I do you know copium? People talk about sometimes 600 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 4: are opium, But I don't know. I think a cope 601 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 4: is just like a way of getting by. It's just 602 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 4: like it's very much what we're talking about here. It's 603 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 4: just like a method of powering through. Okay, I think 604 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 4: and I know, Ben, I haven't actually seen that in 605 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 4: internet to parlance, but I'll be on the lookout. I 606 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 4: bet you the moment. Now that I'm mind aware of this, 607 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 4: I'll see it everywhere. What's that one called that's the one. 608 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it might happen. Shout out to our Shout out 609 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 3: to our friends on our Facebook page. Here's where it 610 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 3: gets crazy. You who have been having a lovely discourse 611 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 3: about better Minehoff as well, We see you. We're on there. 612 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 3: This idea of science is fascinating. I love you're bringing 613 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 3: this up because we know that if you look at 614 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 3: just the way a human brain functions, take third man 615 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 3: experiences out of the equation for a moment, you see 616 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 3: things get weird when you're really sleep deprived. You know, 617 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 3: I love sleep deprivation because it helps your mind go 618 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 3: to really weird places. It's kind of meditation. It's probably 619 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 3: not good for you. But exhaustion, high altitude environments, you 620 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 3: know that lack of oxygen, they all can disrupt normal 621 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 3: brain functions. So your point, nol, perhaps that does lead 622 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 3: to well we know it provably leads to vivid hallucinations, 623 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 3: sensory experiences. What was that voice over there? What's that 624 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 3: on the edge of my peripheral vision? So, because this 625 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 3: can alter your normal brain function, these extreme conditions may 626 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 3: be fundamental to the third man factor. They may be 627 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 3: the crucial piece that has to happen, because again, the 628 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 3: third man only shows up when you're in a very 629 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 3: high stake situation. Right. 630 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 4: Have you guys ever seen the Orson Wells film The 631 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 4: Third Man? 632 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I haven't. 633 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 4: I've just seen clips from it. I know it's like 634 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 4: a classic noir and I've been meaning to I was 635 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 4: reading up on it a little bit, and I'm not 636 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 4: sure if it actually has anything to do with who 637 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 4: we're talking about today, but I had to bring it 638 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 4: out just because of the name alone. 639 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a couple third Man things, right, There's 640 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 3: one by Carol Reid. I think the idea first off, 641 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 3: it's just a really great title, you know what I mean. 642 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 4: Well, there's also, of course Jack White's record label Third 643 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 4: Man Record. 644 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 3: Ah nice? 645 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 2: Who is this muse up there somewhere that is inspiring 646 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 2: all of this music and film mckery what but no? 647 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: But yeah, intense situations at the cusp of potentially death 648 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 2: right where there are stories in the era of people 649 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 2: who were floating on a raft for thirty days for months, 650 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 2: who experience this thing because they're experiencing all the things 651 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 2: you just described there, exhaustion, sleep, deprivation, starvation, all of 652 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 2: that occurring simultaneously. And it is it does appear to 653 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: be some kind of no it's I would I would 654 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 2: say cusp of death. Really. I mean, you're right there 655 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 2: on the edge. 656 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 3: You're right there on the edge. And it's it's huge 657 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 3: in a lot of fiction too, for anybody who is 658 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 3: still kind of trying to rock what what we're describing. 659 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 3: Think of novels like the Life of or the film adaptation, right, 660 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 3: we all remember that just as you're describing their Matt, 661 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 3: there's someone unfortunately stranded on a boat in the open ocean. 662 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 3: And are their animal companions real or is it a hallucination? 663 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,760 Speaker 4: I mean a tiger of the mind. 664 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 2: Well, and it's almost the way your conscious mind can't 665 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 2: get you to do the actually your body needs to 666 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 2: take It's functional. I love that well, because your body 667 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 2: is so let's say, just exhaustion, right and maybe potentially 668 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 2: hypothermia if you're talking about Shackleton and his crew, just 669 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: to get your legs to keep moving right like, sometimes 670 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 2: maybe your conscious mind won't allow you to do it, 671 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 2: so you need something else in. 672 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 3: There because your conscious mind is a grand tapestry of 673 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 3: fears and safeguards and constraints, which is why your unconscious mind, 674 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 3: if you're human, does so much excellent work at night 675 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 3: while you're asleep. So look, we know that oxygen deprivation 676 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 3: on its own will give you crazy experiences. To be clear, 677 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 3: do not try this at home. This is not medical advice. 678 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 3: Try to just keep breathing oxygen the way you already do, 679 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 3: and hold the phone. Call the third man. This is 680 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 3: part one of a two part series. Guys, Let's be honest, 681 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 3: we're not exactly sure how we're going to break this 682 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 3: up yet. Wow. I can't believe that we went so 683 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 3: deep on this. This is fascinating, I think, very personal 684 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 3: to all of us. 685 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 4: Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean even outside of 686 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 4: just like the facts as you put it, Ben, I mean, 687 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 4: we all have so much visceral, very personal connection and 688 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 4: experience with this kind of stuff. 689 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just want to encourage everyone to keep 690 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 2: that open mind as we go through this, because it 691 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 2: is way more interesting as we encourage you to do 692 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 2: in the show in every episode, just allow yourself to 693 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 2: think about some of these things if they don't match 694 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: up exactly with either your scientific or religious beliefs. Just 695 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 2: let yourself go there. 696 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're coming into this as we always endeavor to 697 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 3: do with humility, with respect, with great affection, because this 698 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 3: is a very sensitive, heavy topic, so much so that 699 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,919 Speaker 3: we didn't share a lot of our own personal experiences. 700 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 3: I don't know why I had a Maryland accent on 701 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 3: own there, but maybe I'm being possessed by a third entity. 702 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 3: We will explore more of this in the future, and 703 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 3: we want to hear your personal stories inasmuch as you 704 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 3: feel comfortable sharing them. Find us on email, call us 705 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 3: on the phone, Find us on the Internet. 706 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 4: The Internet's indeed the Internet of Things. You can find 707 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 4: this in the handle conspiracy Stuff, where we exist. 708 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 7: On Facebook with our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. 709 00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 7: Get it in on the conversation with your fellow conspiracy reeling. 710 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 7: We are also conspiracy Stuff on YouTube, where we have 711 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 7: video content galore for you to enjoy, as well as 712 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 7: on x FKA, Twitter, on Instagram and TikTok. 713 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 4: However, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. 714 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 2: We have a phone number. You can call it. You 715 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 2: can call it right now. It is one eight three 716 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 2: three std WYTK. If you are gonna call it, Go 717 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 2: ahead and put it in your phone as a contact 718 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 2: just in case it rings you back. You won't think 719 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 2: it's some telemarketer. It'll be us calling you back. And 720 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 2: when you call in, tell us something about maybe McDonald Critchley, 721 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 2: the dude who wrote the idea of a presence, which 722 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 2: is one of the things that went into this episode, 723 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 2: or again your personal thing that happened. Also, when you 724 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 2: call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let us 725 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 2: know if we can use your name and message on 726 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 2: the air. If you've got more to say than can 727 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 2: fit in that message, why not instead send us a 728 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 2: good old fashioned email. We are the hollow. 729 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 3: Men, get it, the entities that read every piece of 730 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 3: correspondence we received, the well aware yet unafraid. Sometimes the 731 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 3: void writes back specifically to you, are we telling the truth? 732 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 3: There's one way to find out. We'll have to join 733 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 3: us out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 734 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production 735 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 736 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.