1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: I'm Julie Douglas, host of the Stuff of Life, a 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: podcast that teases a part the tales we tell, because 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: when we crack open a story and look inside, we 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: see the seeds of what make our world so maddening, 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: so strange, and so achingly beautiful. The Stuff of Life 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: is a podcast about how we're all just getting by, 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: learning and surviving through the stories that we share. We'll 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: look at everything from fear and what fuels it, the 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: inconceivability of death and our desire to become immortal, to 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: the big universal question in life, why don't men dance? 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: Join me for the first episode on January. You can 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: find The Stuff of Life on iTunes or any other 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: podcast provider. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: how Supports dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. And if you're listening to 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: this episode when it comes out, this is our very 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: first step Mom Never Told You of the New year. 18 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: That's right, woo woo woo woop. So we figured that 19 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: talking about fortune telling might be appropriate because the season 20 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: for us to anticipate the year ahead of us. Yes, 21 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: and my prediction for so many people, including myself, is 22 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: that you'll probably start working out again and then about 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: two weeks from now stop because you'll be tired. My prediction, yeah, 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: I predict that my yoga classes will be so full 25 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: through Valentine's Day then we'll start to taper off. Um. 26 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: But looking at the profession of psychic, which is kind 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: of an umbrella term, was really fascinating and also a 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: little bit frustrating because as ubiquitous as a psychic is 29 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: and has been throughout our history and around the world, 30 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: it's such a marginalized job and even pop cultural figure. 31 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. I mean we talked about in an 32 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: episode long long ago, we talked about mediums and how 33 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: women dominated that arena, and it's it's the same today. 34 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: I would argue that more women are both psychics and 35 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: are thought to be psychics. Yeah, So what I was 36 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: really interested in for researching this episode was why we 37 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: think of women as psychics, Because if you look up 38 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: a stock image, for instance, of a psychic or a 39 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: fortune teller, it's going to be an older woman wearing 40 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: a headscoff and jewels and with her gnarled hands over 41 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: crystal ball. So where did she come from? And why 42 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: are so many storefront psychics still women today? And for 43 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: millennial listeners, I wonder if part of our perception of 44 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: women as psychics has to do with one of the 45 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: most famous psychics of our generation, Caroline Miss Cleo, Miss Clio, 46 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: she of the commercials every five minutes. When I was 47 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: growing up, it felt like I was very familiar with 48 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: Miss Cleo. Yeah. So, Miss Cleo, for those of you 49 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: who don't know, was the spokesperson for the Psychic Readers 50 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: Network from to two thousand two, and her catchphrase was 51 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: call me now, so simple, yet so deceitful, because she 52 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: would on all these infomercials she would take a call 53 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: and of course make some kind of uh prediction for 54 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: these people who often just sounded like very lonely, and 55 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: she would then look at the viewers and say, call 56 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: me now for your free psychic reading. But of course 57 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: the psychic readings weren't exactly so free, nor was she 58 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: exactly who she claimed to be, which was like a 59 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: Jamaican priestess. Yeah no, I mean she wasn't even Jamaican. 60 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: She didn't even really have an accent. She just affected 61 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: a Jamaican accent because it in some way made her 62 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: more believable as this like psychic voodoo priestess lady. Yeah, 63 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: because it turns out that Ms Cleo is actually re Paris, who, 64 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: before she got her gig with Psychic Reader's Network, was 65 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: a Seattle playwright who created a character named Cleo in 66 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: her play for Women Only, which apparently she bamboozled all 67 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: of the people involved with this play out of their 68 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: money too, And so then she skipped down and next 69 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: lands on our television screens as Ms Cleo full time. 70 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, super celeb of the nineties. So apparently these 71 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: Psychic Network phone calls, if you wanted to call up 72 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: and chat with Miss Cleo about your love life or 73 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: whatever your concern was, I was supposed to be free. 74 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: She's like, call me and we'll chat for free because 75 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm amazing and giving and I'm an amazing psychic 76 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: priestess lady. Uh. And that's just not true really, because 77 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: for the first five minutes they would just keep you 78 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: on the phone getting personal information, and so the average 79 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: call actually could run you about sixty books. Yeah. Um. 80 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: And because of this, I think it was actually True 81 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: TV Network that first looked into the Psychic Reader Network 82 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: and found that they were making money hand over fist 83 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: and raked in like a billion dollars um during this 84 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: time period. And so of course there are all sorts 85 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: of lawsuits um against Psychic Reader's network, and I think 86 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: Miss Cleo herself for falsely representing this service and not 87 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: emphasizing enough that it was for entertainment purposes only. Yes, 88 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: scarded any major trouble though. I mean, she was put 89 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: out of a job, but she never went to jail 90 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: or anything like that. She just went off to I 91 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: think Florida because that makes sense. I think it's Florida, 92 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: but even if it's not, it's probably Florida. Uh. And 93 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: it's just you know, walking around best Buy with people 94 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: approaching her asking, you know, should I call you now? 95 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: And I'm sure she's still she still effects a Jamaican accent. 96 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: There was was that the Vice interview where where they're like, 97 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: are you using a voice right now? And she's like, 98 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: oh no, you know, now that I'm older and my 99 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: my mouth is just looser, I just talk like this 100 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: and it's like you're so you're so full of it, 101 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Miss Cleo. Yeah. She insists that it is part of 102 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: her heritage and she stands by her claims as being 103 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: taught voodoo specifically, which she told Vice was a little 104 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: too taboo for Psychic Reader's Network, so they made her 105 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: out to be more of a psychic because that was 106 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: a little of a friendlier term. Um, and that she 107 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: still does psychic readings today, that that's still kind of 108 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: her bread and butter. But because of all of the 109 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: visibility of Miss Cleo and also sort of the lampooning 110 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: of her as well as the legal troubles involved with 111 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: Psychic Readers Network, I think that's a big reason why we, 112 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, look at psychics today with an especially skeptical 113 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: I well, sure, I mean it's crazy to me reading 114 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: those figures about how much money the Psychic Reader's Network 115 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: and Miss Cleo brought in. But it the more you read, 116 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: the more it makes so much sense because source after 117 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: source when you're looking at whether it's psychic abilities or 118 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: things like astrology, numerology, Caro, which will be our next episode. Um. 119 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: So many people who reach out to these so called 120 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: professionals are looking for love, advice. These people are lonely, 121 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: these people are desperate, and they oftentimes find themselves filling 122 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: this role of counselor of what Karen Gregory over at 123 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: New Inquiry called part of the support staff. She was 124 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: looking or talking specifically about psychics in New York City, 125 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: and she said, considering the long and rich history of 126 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: the psychic reader in the city, we can say that 127 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: she's always been a member of the city's support staff, 128 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: offering reassurance and comfort to urban dwellers. But in today's market, 129 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: the psychic has also become the very model of entrepreneurial 130 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: effective labor. So you've got lots of issues. You've got 131 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: the gendering of psychics. People think of psychics as women. 132 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: You've got an emotional labor aspects for people who are 133 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: trying to get jobs and earn money, as psychics and 134 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: psychic related positions are oftentimes having to rely on that 135 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: old pesky emotional labor that we talked about a lot 136 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: on the podcast, in terms of being very empathetic and 137 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: putting on this act and listening to people's problems and 138 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: trying to convince them of things, whether it's stuff in 139 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: their love life or their professional life. And the thing 140 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: is not all psychic x are Miss Cleo's feigning these 141 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: characters just to do people out of some money. There 142 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of people out there who take their 143 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: psychic work very seriously and are very sincere about it. 144 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: There's even a psychic school in London where you can 145 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: go and hone your abilities. But really, in reading a 146 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal article about the school, it's as much 147 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: about honing your emotional intelligence and rapport with people as 148 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: it is what we might think of as psychic. But 149 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: speaking of what we think of as psychic, I think 150 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: it's worth clarifying what psychics do because they aren't necessarily 151 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: telling the future. It's not just the whole looking into 152 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: a crystal ball thing. Because generally speaking, psychics use supernatural 153 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: or mystical talents to gain insight maybe on the future, 154 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: but also on the past or the present. And they're 155 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: distinct from mediums like Long Island medium with that that 156 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: platinum blonde hair, who channel Spirits and the Dead and 157 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: also have successful reality TV show Empires. There are air 158 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: quotes around channel right. Yeah, I mean, I don't know 159 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: Teresa fairly, Teresa can do some incredible work on Long Island. 160 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't know, just I could not. I could not 161 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: be more skeptical. Skepticals way too weak of a word. 162 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: So how do these people supposedly communicate and and connect 163 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: with the past and with the future. Well, there's lots 164 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: of techniques. People. You've got palm reading tarot, dream interpretation, 165 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: or reading numerology, tea leaves. People can even read your 166 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: coffee grounds in Turkish coffee cups. Yeah. I love finding 167 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: out all of the various ways that we have attempted 168 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: to divine these these supernatural elements because this is also 169 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: coming from around the world. And basically the takeaway is 170 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: humans are really obsessed with figuring out whatever way they 171 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: can to explain the world around them, through things like 172 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: interpreting hysterical laughter. That would be Yellowman since my favorite, 173 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: I think because I have been accused of having sort 174 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: of a disruptive laugh from time to time. Often actually, 175 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: especially when you're at a psychic people in movie theaters 176 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: have turned around and looked at me. So well, I 177 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: think one near and dear to my heart, since I 178 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: do love crazy cat ladies would be full of tomancy, 179 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: which is predicting the future via cat. Apparently, when a 180 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: cat sneezes, something's supposed to happen. That's supposed to mean 181 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: something like maybe your house is dusty to say, I 182 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: think it means you need to swiffer. Um. And then 183 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: there's also scrying, which I learned is the technical term 184 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: well peering into a reflective object like a crystal ball. 185 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: But it's not just about the mechanics of say, you know, 186 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: if this was like way back when and you were 187 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: looking at the blood drippings from some animal intestines that 188 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: you had just removed. Um. It's also, especially today, about 189 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: building repport with a client and asking questions yes, to 190 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: find out more information and also see what resonates emotionally. 191 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: And zan Ap K Corkman is a sociologist who spent 192 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: a lot of time with coffee ground Turkish psychics. So 193 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: they're the ones you're reading, you know, the grounds in 194 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: Turkish tea and um. She the way she puts it 195 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: is that psychic readings are really about experiencing and expressing emotions. 196 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: But if you're serious about becoming a psychic reader, a 197 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: side hustle, Caroline, trust me, I'm on it, Lady Boss's 198 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: natum um. Karen Gregory, who spent a lot of time 199 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: with psychics in New York, noted in her piece in 200 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: The New Inquiry that if you are serious about becoming 201 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: a psychic reader, that you would not ethically stand for 202 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: cold readings, and that's their in term for essentially baiting 203 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: someone for information and duping them. Well, here's the thing 204 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: side questions. So, I mean, I I'm gonna really shock 205 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people here when I say that I 206 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: don't believe in psychic abilities or that psychic abilities exist 207 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: at all. But I predicted you were going to say that, 208 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Well, you and I are connected anyway, 209 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: so it's fine, as evidenced by the fact that you 210 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: and I are both wearing our magical fortune teller robes today. Yeah, 211 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: we didn't. We didn't plan that at all. But I'm 212 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm so I'm reading all this stuff with you, Kristen, 213 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: and we're researching all the stuff about psychics and how 214 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: it's it has way more to do with empathy and 215 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: being able to really read the person across the table 216 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: from you and and sort of make your questions as 217 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: statements to try to get a reaction, engage how people react. 218 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you just be a therapist at that point? 219 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: Like that's my question, Like, if you, if you are 220 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: so good at reading people and counseling them, why would 221 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: you not just like, is it is it too much 222 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: time to go to school to become like a licensed 223 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: marriage and family counselor or something. Well, I think that 224 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: the big distinction between a therapist or even a life 225 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: coach and a psychic would be that the psychic is 226 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: going to give you more direct advice of what you 227 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: should do based on something that they're reading. There's still 228 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: it takes it a few steps farther, obviously, because there 229 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: is that mystical connection that people are drawn to. I mean, 230 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: it's the same reason in a lot of ways people 231 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: are drawn to organized religion. Oh sure, sure, sure, yeah, 232 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: And that is I think part of human nature, which 233 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: we'll talk I mean more about in this episode and 234 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: the next about people humans. If this is just natural 235 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: to be drawn to something or a person or a 236 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: system or a religion or whatever that helps you make 237 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: sense of the universe around you. Yeah, and going to 238 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: a psychic, consulting a psychic, getting your palm red or 239 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: your aura red is not a fringe activity. I was 240 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: actually listening to Call your girlfriend a couple of weeks ago, 241 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: for instance, and they were talking to Tobby Givinson who 242 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: was saying how much she loves getting her aura red. 243 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: I have a feeling that, I mean, I don't want 244 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: to put words in Tobby's mouth, but it seems like 245 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: it's more of a lark than something that she really 246 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: like bases her life around. Um. But that jumped out 247 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: to be especially as I was reading about the whole 248 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: psychic industry. My boss at my last job was adorable 249 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: and crazy and hey Carol, and she loved to fluff 250 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: people's auras, which I always would tease her. I was like, 251 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: this is a euphemism, isn't it. But she made me 252 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: lie down on the floor at work. Gross carpet you. 253 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: But she had me light down on the floor and 254 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: she like put her hands just like millimeters above me 255 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: and like moved them around in certain ways. And she 256 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: said she's fluffing my aura and don't I feel bad there? 257 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I mean, I guess I 258 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: got to lie down and close my eyes. But she 259 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: used tricked you into taking a nap. I know, best ballsver. 260 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: But the thing is, this is not a fringe group 261 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: of people. According to the two thousand nine Pew Center 262 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: on Religion and Public Life Survey, fifteen percent of Americans 263 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: have consulted a fortune teller or psychic. And especially as 264 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: we see among our millennial generation US going to church 265 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: less and we used to, you see a rise in 266 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: US getting into more of these occult practices. And that 267 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: number is probably higher than it was back in two 268 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: thousand nine because the psychic industry has benefited from post 269 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: recession discretionary spoonding. In two thousand fourteen, for instance, the 270 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: industry brought in a billion dollars. Well, I mean it's 271 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: not just post recession spending. There's lots of trend articles 272 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: out there from a couple of years ago talking about 273 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: how people during the recession. Uh, during the thick of it, 274 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: I should say, we're consulting a lot of like quote 275 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: unquote financial psychics trying to get help on what do 276 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: I do with my investments? How am I going to 277 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: lose money? Earn money? What am I gonna do? Help me? Yeah? 278 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Should I go back to grad school? What should I do? Um? 279 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: And in along with though the success of the industry 280 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: has had in recent years, there's also been more tightening 281 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: of regulations around it because of incidents like the whole 282 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: Psychic Readers Network fraud, and there have been so many 283 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: high profile cases of people being tricked out of hundreds 284 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars. There was a guy, I think 285 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: in New York who spent almost a million dollars so 286 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: that a love curse could be broken so he could 287 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: get back together with this woman. Wasn't she dead? And 288 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,479 Speaker 1: the woman was dead? Yes, And that's the thing. There 289 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: comes a point when it's like people are crazy. Yeah, 290 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: I was reading there was an x I Jane column 291 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: from this girl who had as a teenager worked as 292 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: an online uh tarot card reader. Not to like give 293 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: her a whole next episode away, but she was writing 294 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: about how this guy every night would get on chat, 295 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: the tarot chat and like bug the crap out of 296 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: her about how he was in love with this woman 297 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: and she she told me to stay away from her 298 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: and that she never wanted to see me. But what 299 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: does that really mean? How do I get with her? 300 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: Every night he would get on this girl's tarot chat 301 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: and ask her how to do that, and she's like, 302 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: I had to stop because that guy was not exactly 303 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: one in a million. I mean, there are a lot 304 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: of people out there who are completely delusional and who 305 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: are willing to use psychics tarot astrology, what have you 306 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: to justify like crazy motivations in their lives. Well, and 307 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: that goes to the main reason people see psychics, which 308 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: is usually for relationship a related advice. It's for those 309 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 1: unanswerable questions, you know. It's also why in the past, 310 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: when I've gone through breakups, I read my horoscope all 311 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: the time. But yeah, okay, let me back up here 312 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: and and be totally hypocritical. Well, I guess not totally. 313 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm a trunk hypocritical because I love reading my horoscope. 314 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't believe it, and I don't think 315 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: that it necessarily means anything or is true, but I 316 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: still love looking at it. Yeah, I have found comfort 317 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: in my horoscopes before for whatever reason, knowing that, yes, 318 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: it probably does not actually mean anything, but I think 319 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: just seeing words in print along the lines of something 320 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: better will happen like okay, okay, good, well, let's get 321 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: out of bed now. Yeah, I really like actually free 322 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: will astrology by Rob Bresney. I actually emailed to me 323 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: every week just because they're so quirky, like, even if 324 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: it wouldn't even necessarily have to he could call it 325 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: something other than horoscopes and it would still be really 326 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: quirky and entertaining. And we have research in fact to 327 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: confirm our hunch that the appeal of horoscopes, psychics, et 328 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: cetera has to do with us making sense of the world. 329 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: There was a study from the University of Queensland which 330 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: found an unsurprising correlation between people's belief in psychics and 331 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: their sense of control over their lives, meaning the psychics 332 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: helped them feel more in control in a way. I mean, 333 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: it's sort of uh, duping yourself into believing that you 334 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: have some answers or some explanations as to why things 335 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: are or to what you should do. And again I 336 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: have a feeling that you would find similar results for 337 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: people with really strong, more traditional religious beliefs as well. Yeah, 338 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: and going back to that Dr Corkman that Kristen mentioned earlier, 339 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: she found that women, young people, and lgbt Q identified 340 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: clients are the most common people who seek out psychics, 341 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: and the way that Karen Gregory puts it in that 342 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: New Inquiry article makes perfect sense as to why marginalized 343 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: groups are more likely to see a psychic. She wrote 344 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: against a backdrop of limited opportunity and the increased perception 345 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: that the future is precarious and risky. These practitioners offer 346 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: the simple reassurance that a life has meaning, perhaps even 347 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: a destiny, and that you, as an autonomous self, are 348 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: a source of agency and potential. And that's amazing. That's 349 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: that's true, and I completely understand it the same way 350 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: that some people might find that by being a dedicated 351 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: member of a church or a temple, or some other 352 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: people might volunteer to feel like they're a part of 353 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: something bigger or or what have you. It falls under 354 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: that same category of feeling like I'm not alone and 355 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: I have purpose. Well, and what a loft job description 356 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: to what do you do well? I'm a psychic, which 357 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: means I give people a sense of autonomy and agency 358 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: and destiny and that they have a purpose in this world. 359 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, that's an interesting way of putting it. Um. 360 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: But the big question that we need to answer is 361 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: why are most people claiming this job title, ladies? What 362 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: is it about psychics? So we're going to talk about 363 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: that when we come right back from a quick break. 364 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: So here's the thing, Caroline, when it comes to the 365 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: question of why we think of psychics as women, why 366 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: most psychics are women. There isn't really a tidy answer 367 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: to it, because, I mean, for one thing, there isn't 368 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: a whole lot of data on the psychic industry because 369 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: it has been so marginalized and it's considered this sort 370 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: of entertainment thing. There isn't a lot of scholarly insight 371 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: on its history and its current operations um. And also 372 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: considering how big it is historically. I mean, if if 373 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: you look into practically any culture at any point in 374 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: the world, you have some kind of fortune teller psychic 375 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: thing going on. Yeah, you've got Greek mythology, which focuses 376 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: on lots of sort of psychic leaning ladies and oracles. 377 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: You have the figure of Cassandra and Greek mythology, who 378 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: could be considered one of the original lady psychics. I mean, 379 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: she's more of a prophet. But according to the drama Agamemnon, 380 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: Apollo gave her the gift of prophecy in exchange for 381 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: hooking up with her. That's great, yeah, but Cassandra was like, no, no, no, Apollo, 382 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to take the prophecy um and you can 383 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: service yourself. Oh what, apologisn't like that? No? He he 384 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: cursed her with the whole thing that nobody would ever 385 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: actually believe her predictions. That's got to be frustrating. Well, 386 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: and that also sounds a little bit like how we 387 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: perceive psychics today, where it's like he cursed all women. 388 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, you know what I mean, because we probably 389 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: attribute it to like, oh, well, of course women are psychics. 390 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: I think there's like it because they're all you know, 391 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: it's just there their men see, yeah, they're empathy. Their 392 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: men sees empathy. But in the Britannica article on divination 393 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: it noted that it happens in practically every culture around 394 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: the world. I mean, it's it's just this human impulse. 395 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: It seems like, yeah, what book were we looking at? 396 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: That was talking about mediums and psychics in the media. 397 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: So that was a book by Karen Bheeler called Sears, 398 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: Witches and Psychics on Screen and Analysis of Women Visionary 399 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: Characters in recent television and film. Well, in the intra 400 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: she goes into a discussion of perhaps, you know, all 401 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: the way from Greek mythology to a modern TV show, 402 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: we think of psychics as being women and vice versa, 403 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,239 Speaker 1: because it's not as action packed or role as the 404 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: traditional hero who is traditionally male or masculine um. And 405 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: so that's one possible explanation for the origins of our 406 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: association that you know, women, we've got all the stereotypical 407 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: like separate spheres. Women are tending and befriending at home 408 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: or at the temple, so they're more likely to stereotypically 409 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: and traditionally and mythologically, uh, be inside fortune tellen as 410 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: opposed to being outside, you know, slaying the beasts or whatever. Well, 411 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: and when you think about it, it's a very passive role. 412 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: Psychics are often these empty vessels that allow other forces 413 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: to communicate through them. So we're much more comfortable with 414 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: a woman traditionally in that kind a passive role. I mean, 415 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: even if we take it more literally, women is empty 416 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: vessels hello, having babies flooding uterus is I was thinking 417 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: of your uterus in place and and filled with a baby. Oh, 418 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: I went then comes out. I was just thinking you're 419 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: uterus as being like so empty except for good ideas. 420 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: I think our yes, we would have been so much 421 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: different if people have thought are empty wounds were just 422 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: full of good ideas. But we're cursed by Apollo for 423 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: no one to believe us, no one to believe our Uteruses. 424 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: We are all, Cassandra. That's why we're having the planned 425 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: parent in debate. It's because nobody believes our Uterus. It's 426 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: because Apollo. And it's notable too that the occult, generally speaking, 427 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: is one of like the only non patriarchal realms of 428 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: spirituality there is, so there's been room for women, um 429 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: to not only play parts, but also have leader ship 430 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: in these aspects. I mean, I highly highly highly recommend 431 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: listeners if you are into this topic, go back and 432 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: listen to our podcast a while back asking the question 433 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: were mediums the first feminists because UM, in the United 434 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: States in the mid nineteenth century, these women named the 435 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: Fox Sisters essentially created this religion called spiritualism, which involved 436 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: all sorts of mediumship and psychic reading and tarot reading, 437 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: and women who also became suffragists were so into it 438 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: because it gave them a platform for the very first time. Yeah, 439 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: I gave them a platform. And it was also sort 440 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: of the same way that Protestant religions split off from 441 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: Catholic the Catholic religion and gave people a direct connection 442 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: to the Bible and to God. I mean, mediumship is 443 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: not that different, it's it's quite parallel, and that it's 444 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: giving people, in this case a lot of women, a 445 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: direct connection to another worldly realm and people who some 446 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: people who were stereotypically very connected to the other worldly 447 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: realm were the Roma. And that's where we get this 448 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: image of the the carnival gypsy with all of her 449 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: jewels and big earrings and crystal ball. Yeah. In brook 450 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: Bunts is History of the Crystal Ball at Broadly, which 451 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: I highly recommend you read. She notes that traveling Roma 452 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: in America were the go to carnival and standalone fortune 453 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: tellers by the nineteen thirties. Now, of course, this is 454 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: where we get a little bit of racism, I think, 455 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: in our perception of fortune tellers as frauds, because, um, 456 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: the Roma people are usually hated for being fraudulent and 457 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: being thieves and pickpockets and things like that. So we 458 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: have this, uh, this other ring of this group, I mean, 459 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: and it's not just in the United States, it's issues 460 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: um wherever they've been. Um. But that's where that stereotypical 461 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: image comes from. And one thing that I also didn't 462 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: find a good source on, but I'm curious to know 463 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: if listeners have any more insight on this is a 464 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: little more deeply how race plays into our perceptions of 465 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: women as psychics. Because going back for a second to 466 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: Miss Cleo and her being so believable because she affected 467 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: this Jamaican lilt and talked about voodoo, and I don't know, 468 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: I just wonder if I just wonder kind of what's 469 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: up with that, Like why, um, this image is more 470 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: why we were so quick to buy it? Well, I 471 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: wonder if it has anything to do with just traditionally 472 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: having viewed women from other cultures or countries as just 473 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: the other anyway, um, and why we would be so 474 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: quick to believe like someone with a different accent who 475 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: puts on a turban and big earrings. Yeah, the whole 476 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: exoticizing factor. That makes total sense. Um. Although if we 477 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: look at the most prominent uh characters on TV who 478 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: are playing these kinds of mainstream psychics that Karen Deeler 479 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: highlights in her books Sears, which is and Psychics, most 480 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: of them are white ladies. Yeah, you've got what is it, 481 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: Patricia Arquette, You've got Jennifer love Hewitt, which, come on, 482 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: you couldn't have cast someone else better. I've never seen 483 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: the show. I probably shouldn't talk. Go ahead and send 484 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: of your letters. I've never seen it. I'm sorry. Jennifer 485 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: love Hewitt, if you're listening, you've got great hair. She's 486 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: got great hair. She's just that beautiful hair. I mean, hey, 487 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: I enjoyed Party of Five. There was a show though, 488 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: and I don't I don't have the actress's name in 489 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: front of me, but wonderful rolls. It was a brief show, 490 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: but delight um that she wasn't necessarily psychic, but objects 491 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: would talk to her, and she was. Objects would talk 492 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: to her. Yeah, like little little things like the stapler 493 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: kinda yeah, the stapler might be like you should go 494 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: invest a great that hang over there. I'm impressed that 495 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: a stapler would know about other things instead of just stapling. Oh, 496 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: I've learned so much from staplers over the u S, Caroline, 497 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: I've been limiting. If I've been limiting, uh, staplers quite 498 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 1: possibly standing in the way of their progress. That's right. 499 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: Don't even get me started on duct tape. Um. But 500 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: one thing that that beeler does know, she she kind 501 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: of glosses over the how sort of homogeneous all these 502 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: characters are. And and how curious that is that these 503 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: lead roles, that these protagonists are suddenly white, even though 504 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: if we think of the more stock characters, it usually 505 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: is like women of color. Well, I mean, that's that's 506 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: another thing, having stock characters and background characters and suspicious 507 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: characters being women of color. But then having like the 508 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: lead in your one hour Saturday night drama TV show 509 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: being a white woman. Then Yeah, layers, layers, so many layers. Well, 510 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: and she notes too what we mentioned earlier about how 511 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: uh and this also echoes our episode on Hollywood Witches. 512 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: How of course we would enjoy seeing a woman with 513 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: supernatural psychic abilities, because you know, dudes can have the 514 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: physical strength and the logic, but ladies, you know, just 515 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: just using their feelings to fix pain. I wish my 516 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: feelings fixed things. Well, I mean, is that why we 517 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: get like the douchy Chris Angel And what's the other 518 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 1: one who's got to go tee? The illusionist? Yeah, like 519 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: all of the your magician illusionist people tend to be guys. 520 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: That's what I was wondering as well, because you have Yeah, 521 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: and in this if we broaden our scope even more 522 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: to this entertainment industry. Magicians are men performing in front 523 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: of audiences. Psychics tend to be women one on one 524 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: tapping into the emotions, whereas men are usually pulling things 525 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: out of happen and escaping from tanks of water, pulling 526 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: who knows what at of who knows where, goodness being 527 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: cut in half. But there's also that emotional labor aspect 528 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: of it, or the affective labor, as we talked about 529 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: at the top of the podcast, and this was something 530 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: that Dr Corkman highlighted as well, and she was kind 531 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: of blown over by the work that it does take 532 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: to be a fortune teller. She was like, going into this, 533 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: it's like, Oh, you're just gonna like read some coffee ground, 534 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: no big deal. But a lot of them reported being 535 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: so exhausted at the end of the day. Yeah, you've 536 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: got to sit there and try to pull really emotional 537 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: sensitive information out of people, some of who might be crying, 538 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: some of who might be skeptical and not not really 539 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: going along with it. But if you've got to be 540 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: attuned to every like eye twitch or glance or movement 541 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: to try to pick up on someone's emotions, Yeah, it 542 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: does sound exhausting, and it's usually I mean, it's not reciprocated. 543 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: That's another thing with this, you know, the the energy 544 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: being expended, it's not like they're going to get anything 545 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: from return from these clients. Um and Corkman notes that 546 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: divination work is marginalized as a result of it's feminization. 547 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: So it seems like being a psychic unless you're like 548 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: a celebrity psychic like Sylvia Brown who made like a 549 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: bazillion dollars when she was alive, is often just a 550 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: thankless job. But is divination truly dismissed? And I mean, 551 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: I recognize that this is what Kirkman studies point to, 552 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: but is it truly dismissed because it's feminized or is 553 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: it dismissed because we have hundreds of years of history 554 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: of people being like kind of jerked around by psychics 555 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: and mediums and members of the occult. But I want 556 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: to pull magicians back out of out of my top 557 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: hat because think about that. We know, I mean, like 558 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: they now refer to themselves as illusionists in the same 559 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: way that psychics legally and most municipalities have to emphasize 560 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: that their services are for entertainment only, and we know 561 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: that magic isn't real, but we don't. I don't think 562 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: that we give them the side eye quite as much 563 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: as psychics. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I really only roll 564 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: my eyes at people like Chriss angel just because he's 565 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: Chris angel Um, not so much because someone's a magician 566 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: or an illusionist or whatever, Whereas kind of across the 567 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: board I tend to roll as a psychics. Well, and 568 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: I guess I just realized as I was making that 569 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 1: argument that of course we are not as side eyed 570 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: toward magicians because we're actually seeing their tricks happening. We 571 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: see the things up here, We see the lady being 572 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: sawn into song. So sod also the magic of me 573 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: learning basic words. I love witnessing it. It's a beautiful thing. 574 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: But you obviously can't see a psychic's promise happening right 575 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: there in front of you. Well, maybe that's why you 576 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: have a lot of psychics who do use quote unquote 577 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: tools of the trade like crystal balls, like crystals um, like, 578 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: you know, just basic accessories that they have in their 579 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: their psychic rooms to try to lend an air of authenticity. Perhaps, Yeah, 580 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about it is scientifically psychic powers 581 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: don't exist. I mean, the whole question of like, well, 582 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: maybe women are more often psychics because they're more psychic 583 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: than men, and the answers, no, women aren't more psychic 584 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: than men because these powers don't exist. I mean, there 585 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: was a University of London study, for instance, that essentially 586 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: debunked psychic ability, although it was a rather small sample size. 587 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: They had like two psychics sit down and had people 588 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: write things on cards. I'm just imagining the opening scene 589 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: of Ghostbusters or Dr Bankman has the pretty girl in 590 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: the basement any who. Actually it was exactly that and 591 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: had a marshmallow man come out. Um. But essentially what 592 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: happened was the psychics were not able to guess what 593 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: these people had written in any statistically significant kind of way. 594 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: I think they failed across the board. But it also 595 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: goes to show how, in a lot of ways psychics 596 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: today can be compared to life coaches sort of a 597 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: little more more mystical. Yeah, just like somebody who's on Oprah. 598 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,800 Speaker 1: Stuff written for a magazine, which I've said time and 599 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: time again is one of my favorite things to read 600 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: in the world. I mean a lot of those people 601 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: are life coachy. Well, and I'm sure that there are 602 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: listeners who have consulted psychics who are indicating their areas read. 603 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: I am sure that there are some who do crystals, 604 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: because I feel like crystals are super popular right now. Um, 605 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: one of my best friend's moms is all about some 606 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: healing crystals. Yeah. I used to work at another old job. 607 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: Uh there was this very amazingly intelligent, sweet nurse who 608 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: she was like a very strong Christian woman, but she 609 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: also was big into crystal healing, which I thought was 610 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: very interesting considering she was both a Christian and an 611 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 1: actual medical nurse. But yeah, she she gave me a 612 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: crystal to help ward off evil spirits and it did 613 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: not keep that boss away from me. So I don't 614 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: I can't believe. I can't buy into an Unfortunately, Well, 615 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: I wonder what listeners have to say about all of this, 616 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: or are there any listeners who are psychics who do 617 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: this kind of work. We want to hear from you, 618 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: and also were curious as to why you think that 619 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 1: most psychics are women. Mom Stuff at how stuff works 620 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: dot com is our email address. You can also tweet 621 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: us at mom stuff podcast or messages on Facebook, and 622 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you, 623 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: and we come right back from a quick break. One 624 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: great resolution you can make for the new year is 625 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: to maximize every minute and every dollar for your small business, 626 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: and we know an easy way to do that with 627 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 1: stamps dot com. Think about how much time you've wasted 628 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: going to the post office, driving there and finding parking. 629 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: Stamps dot com is the better way to get postage. 630 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: Just use what you already have, your computer and printer 631 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: to get official US postage for any letter or package. 632 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: Then the mail carrier picks it up. 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Enter stuff and 643 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: now back to the show. All right, Well, I have 644 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: a letter here from Carly in response to our adult 645 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: acne episode, she says, um, I've been a longtime listener 646 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: to the show and especially enjoy the topics on female health. 647 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 1: When the episode on adult acne popped up, I listened 648 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: immediately because it's been a major subject of frustration for 649 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: me over the past seven months. In the episode, you 650 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: mentioned hormonal i u d s can sometimes cause acne. 651 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: You also noted that copper i u d s are 652 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: non hormonal and thus will not factor into the hormonal 653 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: acne equation. However, as I and many other women on 654 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: internet message board land will tell you, these copper i 655 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: u d s are thought to cause acne too. I 656 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: got my copper iu D in just shy of a 657 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: year ago. I was so happy to be free of 658 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 1: daily hormones and to have a potentially ten year long 659 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,399 Speaker 1: solution of birth control with no fuss. Skipped to six 660 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: months later, and my face is breaking out and painful 661 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: cystic acne constantly and all over my face. Even before 662 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: I was on the pill, I had never experienced anything 663 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,439 Speaker 1: to this degree. It was so bad I never wanted 664 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,280 Speaker 1: to leave the house, instead scouring the internet for potential 665 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: causes and solutions. At first, I thought it was due 666 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: to a hormonal imbalance from getting off the pill, but 667 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: then I found a slew of message for conversations connecting 668 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: the copper I u D two cystic acne, among other 669 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: symptoms I won't get into here. Post after post women 670 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: recounted experiencing exactly the same course of events like me. 671 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: Many women had never had acne before and developed it 672 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: after having the iu D in for several months. Subsequently, 673 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: many women also wrote about how getting the io D 674 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: out immediately reduced their inflammation and then eventually solve the 675 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: problem altogether. The theory goes that the copper and the 676 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: iu D builds up in your body too much higher 677 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,959 Speaker 1: than normal levels and then inhibits zinc absorption because zinc 678 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: is correlated with skin health. Without adequate zinc, the skin 679 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: goes haywire. From what I can tell, this copper toxicity 680 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: theory is majorly anecdotal. I couldn't find one scientific study 681 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: to verify the connection with the io D to copper toxicity. 682 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: This might explain why myself and other women were not 683 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: told that this could be a possible symptom before getting 684 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: the iu D, and why women are constantly told there 685 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,359 Speaker 1: is no way the copper iu D is the cause 686 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: of their acne because it doesn't affect hormones. After doing 687 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: this research, I started taking a good zinc supplement and 688 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: my symptoms have really improved. I'm also getting the iu 689 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: D out this week, so time will tell if the 690 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 1: iu D is really the cause of my think I'm 691 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: curious about this potential gap in research on this product, 692 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: perhaps another case of women's issues getting the short end 693 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 1: of the research sick. I just wanted to share this 694 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: in case there's any other frustrated and confused copper I 695 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: u D users out there, So thanks Carly Well. I've 696 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: got a letter here from Rachel, also about our adult 697 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: acne episode. She writes, I've been struggling with acne for 698 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: the past twenty years and think that you treated a 699 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: fabulous job of highlighting all the physical, emotional, and psychological 700 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: tools that acne can take on a woman. From my 701 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: mother who is approaching sixty and still gets sabacious. This 702 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: physically holding me down on our bathroom floor trying to 703 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 1: pop one of my first pimples, the odd intimacy of 704 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: popping back me with my husband. I'm pointing at you, 705 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: gonger Seeva has brought me both joy and pain, and 706 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: mostly pain in all forms. In the realm of remedies, 707 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 1: I tried it all and only recently discovered Sperana lacktne. 708 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: It was recently recommended to me by a friend about 709 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, and it's actually changed 710 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: my life. After about ninety days on a very low dose, 711 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: my skin was gorgeous. Since starting the medication, I've had 712 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 1: a few breakouts, but they have not been anywhere near 713 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: as horrible as the pimples of yesteryear, and it made 714 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,320 Speaker 1: me realize how quickly I've become accustomed to a clear 715 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: face and forgot the horrors of cystic acne. But I've 716 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: recently decided to let nature take its course with my reproduction, 717 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: so I can no longer take it. My skin hasn't 718 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: blown up yet, but I'm sure that's right around the corner. 719 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: Keep up the great work on the podcast and keep 720 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: on preaching the magic of spur on a lactown So thanks, Rachel, 721 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: and I can also attest that it is a fabulous drug. 722 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: So listeners, we want to hear from you now. Mom 723 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 1: Stuff at house stuffworks dot Com is our email address 724 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as 725 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including 726 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: this one with our sources so you can learn more 727 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: about like gigs head on over to stuff Mom Never 728 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: Told You dot com for more on its in athens 729 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: of other topics using how stuff works dot com