1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Americans kidnapped at gunpoint when 2 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: they're on a vacation in Mexico. It turns out there 3 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: are murders of Americans on vacation in Mexico. Then why 4 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: are people still flooding across the border and how did 5 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: this happen? I mean, Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 6 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Station 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: in series M one eleven. First of all, take a 8 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at WPDE. We're closely following the 9 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: kidnapping four US citizens and Metamoris on March third. The 10 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: FBI working very closely with other federal partners in Mexican 11 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies to investigate this. Christopher Hickson says she 12 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: had no clue her son, twenty eight year olds and 13 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: Dell Brown had left the state yet alone the country. 14 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: Brown is one of four missing and feared kidnapped in Mexico. 15 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: Grant says she talked with her brother last Thursday while 16 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: he and three other friends were driving to Mexico. I 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: felt a little uneasy because I told him I had 18 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: a dream. You know, I say, so, I'm just checking 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: on you. That's what I told him. Thursday, and then, 20 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: like I said, Friday morning, I text theyre not didn't 21 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: get anything. The four are believed to have been targeted 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: by mistake and we're not the intended victim. Well, that 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: dream turned into a nightmare. Take a listen to KTRK. 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: Clues on where and what happened to four Americans continue 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: to emerge following their kidnapping and matamodels inside the Mexican 26 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: state Damolipas. Surveillance video matching what the FBI says happened 27 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: is also circulating, although the FBI has yet to confirm 28 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: if it's the same situation. Damolipas is on the State 29 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: Departments do not travel list because of high crime and kidnapping. 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: We do also remind Americans about the existing travel guidance 31 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to this particular part of Mexico. Tonight, 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: at least one of the potential victims is being identified 33 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: by his family in South Carolina has twenty eight year 34 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: old Zindel Brown. The waiting is the worst part. ABC 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: has also confirmed two other Americans with Brown, Shyde Woodard 36 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: and Tay McGee, mining their own business. All they did 37 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: was cross the border. But why all of this happening 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: just about twelve miles away from the US take a 39 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: lot star phrases. CBS video posted on Twitter appears to 40 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: show the moment four US citizens were kidnapped in Mexico. 41 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: State Department officials say they are working to secure the 42 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: Americans safe return. BFBI working very closely with other federal 43 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: partners in Mexican law enforcement agencies to investigate this. This 44 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 1: happened in Matamoros Friday, about a twelve minute drawing from Brownsville, Texas. 45 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: The band says the Americans entered Mexico driving a white 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: minivan with North Carolina license plates. Shortly after crossing the border, 47 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: gunman opened fire on the passengers in the vehicle. A 48 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: white minivan is under fire for what machine guns in Mexico. 49 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: Americans are twelve miles away from a US city in Texas, 50 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: and this happens. We find out more. Take a listen 51 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: to our friends at crime online dot com. Five friends 52 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: set out from South Carolina to Mexico, LaTavia, Ta McGee. 53 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: A mom of six wanted a tummy tuck. The surgical 54 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: procedure to remove abdominal fab was scheduled with a doctor 55 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: in Matamorrows just across the US Mexico border. One of 56 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: the friends, Cheryl Orange, stayed behind in the Brownsville, Texas 57 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: hotel room since she didn't have the proper documentation across 58 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: the border. The four Americans traveled to Mattamorrows from Brownsville 59 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: on Friday in a rented white minivan. McGee was to 60 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: be dropped off at a doctor's office and then the 61 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: other three would return to meet Orange at the hotel 62 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: until the surgery was over. But the Americans couldn't find 63 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: the doctor's office and got lost. Okay, all of this 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: over a tummy tuck. It's called medical tourism, and I'm 65 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: certainly as the mother of twins, I'm not maligning anyone 66 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: that wants a dummy tuck. I completely understand, but to 67 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: cross the border it can I just introduce an expert 68 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: in this field, doctor Stephanie Porous plastic surgeon, well known 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: plastic surgeon joining us out of Orlando at porous plastic 70 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: Surgery dot com, dodgor poris. Thanks for being with us, 71 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: doctor Poris. Can I tell you before we pooh pooh 72 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: these four Americans who crossed the border forget to get 73 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: plastic surgery? Can I tell you what just happened in 74 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: my family. My mother who's ninety one now ninety one, 75 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: los a me and she deadline dentures. Do you blame her? 76 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: So she was going to get a mouthful of dental 77 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: implants going into her savings account, and I mean it 78 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: was expensive. And she said, you know what, I'm going 79 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: to go to Mexico and get implants. I'm like, if 80 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: you say no to her, then that's for sure what 81 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: she's going to do. So I knew not to say no. 82 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: But I have just literally written a book, including traveling 83 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: abroad in big, huge all caps, especially Mexico. And the 84 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: reason was here in the US, they were concerned that 85 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: she didn't have enough bone to attach the implants. If 86 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: that's making any sense, hardly any dentist would do it. 87 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: She found one that was going to do it for 88 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: an exorbitant amount, and I was suspicious, Why would only 89 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: just one dentist do it? But Lucky, I said, Mom, 90 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: why would you go to Mexico. You won't be near 91 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: a hospital. They don't have the same safety pursuers as 92 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: the US does. Finally we went to the dentist here 93 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: and there a specialty practice, and it worked. It worked. 94 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: She's beautiful teeth. But my point is my mother, who 95 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: was the CFO of a company played in the Georgia Symphony, 96 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: the Chilla. She's brilliant. She was considering this. So first 97 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: of all, what is a tummy tuck? Let's just start 98 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. Absolutely, well, that's a story that can 99 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: resonate with many, including myself and my family. So a 100 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: tummy tuck is simply removal of the excess skin on 101 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: the lower part of your tummy to kind of tighten 102 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: things up and sometimes at the same time we fix 103 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: the muscle, your ab muscles underneath. And it's really great 104 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: for you know, the post moms of the world, or 105 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: even patience with massive weight loss, or just people with 106 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: that stubborn exo skin that they just can't get rid of. 107 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: So wait a minute, what do you do like cut 108 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: the tummy open and then what suck out fat? What? Yeah? 109 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: I mean, let me get down from me, because I 110 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: know nothing about this except it really scared when people 111 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: get them. What do they actually do in a tummy tuck? 112 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, so we're actually making an incision from about 113 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: hip to hip, depending on how much excess skin you have. Okay, 114 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: whoa wa right there, that's a no go, but okay, 115 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: go ahead. We don't physically go inside your abdomen, inside 116 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: your belly. Everything is done on the skin level and 117 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: just down to the muscle. But a lot of times, 118 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: you know, when we have weight loss or changes with pregnancy, 119 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: we actually get muscle separation and a lot of people 120 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: have a sort of loss of course strength after this, 121 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: and so we actually go in and we can tighten 122 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: up the muscles at the same time we've removed this 123 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: excess skin that gives you that more washboard abs. Look, 124 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: if you've looked at pictures of before and afters of 125 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: tummy tucks, a lot of people say, oh, the stomach 126 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: actually looks a lot flatter. Not only is it missing skin, 127 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: but it also looks flatter. And why wow, okay, doctor 128 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Stephanie Porus, you're hearing her speak. She's the only female 129 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: owner and operated plastic surgery practice in Orlando. In Orlando 130 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: is very big, the only one, and that's why we 131 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: wanted her, and we researched her very carefully because, knock 132 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: on wood, nothing like a botched procedure in the middle 133 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: of a tummy tuck has happened with this doctor. But 134 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: let me go to doctor Jan Gorniac, Medical Examiner, Clark 135 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: County Office of Coroners, joining us out of Vegas Board 136 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: certified forensic Pathologist, doctor Gorneiac. That's not always true with 137 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: tummy Tuck's not every plastic surgeon has as pristine of 138 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: a record as doctor Porus, much less in Mexico. What 139 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: could go wrong with a tummy tuck? Many things can 140 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: go wrong, especially not being, like you said, in a 141 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: accredited hospital facility, not the pristine conditions as sterile equipment. 142 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: So anything can go wrong, from an infection to bleeding 143 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: that they're not controlling the bleeding correctly, not giving them 144 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: any antibiotics afterwards. I was reading putting bandages directly on 145 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: the wound, the tissue dying, the person dying. There's so 146 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: many complications from not being in a certified sterile environment. 147 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: It's all about the money, I mean. I asked my mom. 148 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: I said, where did you get the idea? Not in 149 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: an accusing way, the way I'm talking right now, o'h. Like, Mom, 150 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: what led you to believe she got to Mexico for 151 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: a full mouthful of dental implants at age ninety And 152 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: she said, Google I'm like, oh, dear Lord in Heaven, 153 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: and I was very spet skeptical, but then I found out. 154 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: Let me go to Nicole parton Crime online dot Com 155 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: investigate every reporter. Nicole, did you know around one point 156 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: two million Americans travel to Mexico for plastic surgery and 157 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: other operations each year, one point two million Americans, and 158 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: to trash these four Americans are going, why would they 159 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: do that? That's so crazy. There are brilliant people, accomplished people, 160 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: educated people that do this, Nicole, Absolutely, Nancy, and they're 161 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: doing it because the cost can be fifty upwards to 162 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: eighty percent cheaper across the border, so they're leaving our 163 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: country going there. It's estimated that a million Californians have 164 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: traveled into Mexico to get cheaper prescription meds and medical procedures. 165 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: So this is something that is on the rise because 166 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: they're saving up to eighty percent off the cost of 167 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: these procedures, but maybe not taking into consideration the bleak 168 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: outcome and cheaper isn't always better. You're right, because there 169 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: with no follow up and standard of care procedures in place, 170 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: you die, and then what happens in Mexico what we're 171 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: going to chase it down. The doctor in Mexico who, 172 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: if he or she is a doctor, has probably moved 173 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: to a new location and formed a new corporation under 174 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: a different name. Blah blah blah. But what good is 175 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: it chasing them for some money when your loved one 176 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: is dead and it happens. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Guys. 177 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum is forensic expert, director of the Cold Case 178 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: Research Institute and Starving You hit series A podcast Zone seven. Cheryl, 179 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: it's amazing to me. It's less than fifteen miles away 180 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: from a Texas city. It's less than fifteen miles, but 181 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: it's a whole different world. And one thing that people 182 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: need to understand when traveling to another country is Mexico 183 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: has the same level of warning for this particular city 184 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: as we do for North Korea. You've got to do 185 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: your research, Nancy. When you and I were traveling to 186 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: a rouble with Beth Holloway, how many times did she 187 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: warn people about if your friends don't have the right idea, 188 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: if they don't have enough room on their credit card, 189 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: if they don't know, you know, make sure their family 190 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: knows how to reach them. This group had some issues. 191 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: Miss Orange couldn't even cross the border. She had to 192 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: stay at the hotel because she didn't have the proper ID. Well, 193 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: that tells you right there they might not have done 194 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: proper research. Not having the correct ide, not doing the 195 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: proper research. I saw well and good, but the whole 196 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: endeavor goes sideways. Take a listen to our cut eight CBS. 197 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: There are reports that the missing Americans may have been 198 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: targeted by mistake. The FBI is now assisting with the 199 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: investigation and a note of caution. The images here are graphic. 200 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: This is the moment four Americans were kidnapped in Madam Morris, Mexico, 201 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: just across the border from Brownsville, Texas. They were traveling 202 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: in this white minivan with North Carolina plates when they 203 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: came under fire. The video appears to show a woman 204 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: forced into the back of a pickup truck by men 205 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: with guns, then two others who appear hurt, loaded next 206 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: to her. The Mexican president says the four we're going 207 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: to buy medicine less expensive in Mexico, as hundreds of 208 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: thousands of Americans do each year, and that they could 209 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: have been mistakenly targeted, mistakenly targeted for those of you 210 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: just joining us. Four Americans kidnapped at gunpoint just after 211 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: they crossed the Mexican border. Their loved ones left behind 212 00:13:54,880 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: wondering what happened, But there was one woman that lives 213 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: to tell the story. Take a listen to our friends 214 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: over at seeing It. Ta's my Latavia's my best friend. 215 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: She hit me up and asked me to join her. 216 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: So I accompany her and the trip to Brownsville, Texas 217 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: for cosmetic surgery, and we begetting the road trip. We 218 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: left out on Thursday and traveled to Texas. Once I 219 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: got there, I was then informed that her procedure was 220 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: being done across the border and that event we were 221 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: just arriving in Brownsville, Texas at Studio six, and I 222 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: didn't have proper identification, so I couldn't join her to 223 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: go across to the border, which left me back at 224 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: the hotel. When I told I didn't have my idea 225 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: with me, she didn't. Dad dropped me off at the 226 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: hotel and said that they would return in fifteen minutes. 227 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: That's why I was so like worry and in fear 228 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: because it didn't seem right. Fifteen minutes had gone by. 229 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: They were not there when they dropped me off at 230 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: the hotel. I had got into the shower, I showered, 231 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: and I laid on the bed. I think I was 232 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: exhausted from you know, the long hours, the long ride, 233 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: so I felt I ended up falling the sleep. I 234 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: woke up and it was already five o'clock in the afternoon. 235 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: So from nine to five I went down to the office, 236 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: the clerk in the hotel, and I asked him how 237 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: my friends come back or attempted to come in and 238 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: out the hotel, come back to the hotel, and he 239 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: told me no, the one woman that didn't have the 240 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: ride credentials to get across the border. Straight out to 241 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, renown's like Hidra's joining us out of 242 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction. At Angela Arnold MD dot com. You 243 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: deal well, one of your expertise is dealing with women's issues. 244 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: To say, a road trip makes it. It sounds like, hey, 245 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: let's all go to Miami and jump in the pool 246 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: and go to a club and have a nice dinner. 247 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: It sounds so, I don't know, innocuous, so fun, like 248 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: what could possibly go wrong? Nobody said at the gego 249 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: they were crossing the Mexican border for a tummy tuck. 250 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: But you know what, Nancy, they probably everybody was expecting 251 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: to have fun on this trip. And you know what, 252 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: the woman was probably very excited because she had saved 253 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: her little money, little money, my rare end. It's a 254 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: lot and know little money. It's cost thousands and thousands 255 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: of dollars even in Mexico. Well, she had still probably 256 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: scraped together her money to have this done. I'm sure 257 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: she was very excited to have a new look after 258 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: having so many children. And you know what, and her 259 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: friends were coming with her, and they were all being 260 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: supportive of her, and they worked, we're making a trip 261 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: out of it, and they were expecting to have a 262 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: very good time there. And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy. 263 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't know about y'all, but I don't believe for 264 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: a second that they were mistaken for drug cartel people 265 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: with a white van with a North Carolina or South 266 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Carolina license plate on it. They were they were hit. 267 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: This was a hit. Let's not call it something that 268 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: it's not okay, you know what, I think you're absolutely right, doctor, 269 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: and shee and please don't limit yourself to matters of psychiatry. 270 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: You can go ahead and just kick Nicole a partners 271 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: straight out of her seat and takeover. But Nicole, don't 272 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: leave just yet. To doctor Stephanie Porous joining us. She 273 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: is a very well known at popular plastic surgeon out 274 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: of Orlando at Porous plastic surgery dot com. Doctor Stephanie, 275 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure that you go through every single risk, post op, preop, 276 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: the whole shebang when you have a patient. Correct you 277 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: think they're doing that down in Mexico. Absolutely not. I 278 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: mean I spend ninety minutes with my new patient consults, 279 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: and then we bring them back two to three weeks 280 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: prior to their surgery to go over those risks again. 281 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: So I highly doubt, especially considering that they've never seen 282 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: a doctor. There was no mention of any paperwork. I mean, truly, truly, 283 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that anybody explained the risks of the 284 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: procedure to them. And that's a scary part about this 285 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: medical tourism thing is you just don't know the credibility, 286 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: the ethics, the morals of that doctor or dentist on 287 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: the other side that is going to treat you and 288 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: it is scary. You really got to do your research. 289 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: And Ana what doctor Stephanie forres, I get it. There 290 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: are millions of cosmetic procedures done every day here in 291 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: the US, and they turn out just fine. But I 292 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: had a very dear friend, you may know her name, 293 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: John Rivers, that I knew in New York and it 294 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: was very very kind to me and my children, and 295 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: she went in for a minor procedure, very minor, and 296 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: she's dead. And I'm so tempted to do this or that, 297 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: and I think of Joan and I just say, hey, 298 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: put on some more lipstick. Oh. We have a saying 299 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: in surgery. You know, there's no such thing as simple 300 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: simple surgery, just simple surgeons, because we know that any cut, 301 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: even something one centimeter in size, can leave you, truly, 302 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: truly with some significant complications when it comes to surgery. 303 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: So they're you're right to have that pause. I mean 304 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: they're again, things do happen, and you know, and then 305 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, when you travel to these other countries, 306 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, you come back to America, you know, we're 307 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: sometimes left picking up the pieces and they can be devastating, 308 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: and they can be costly, even more costly than you 309 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: could have imagined, and you know, most importantly deadly. Right, Yes, 310 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: doctor Jane Gornia joining me Medical Examine, Clark County in Vegas. 311 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: Never a lack of business there, Doctor Gourney at Doctor 312 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: Gourney Act. How many times? I mean, if you could 313 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: just guess, have you had to perform an autopsy on 314 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: someone that had a botched plastic surgery? Um, thankfully, it's 315 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: it's low. It's probably you know, two or three in 316 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: the past, but you know seventeen years. But I'm glad 317 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: that you asked me that because in your previous guests 318 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: talking about the risk factors, when someone dies of a 319 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: complict a known complication, we call that natural. So for example, 320 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: when you go over the risk and they sign their 321 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: content and the risk of the surgery is infection, and 322 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: then they die from that infection, that's a known complication, 323 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: we would call that a natural got it. I did 324 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: not know that, Doctor Gorne Act. But you know what's 325 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: so interesting is that these Americans that are kidnapped and 326 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing turns deadly did not happen on a 327 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: doctor's table. There's no quack doctor's fault. And remember the 328 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: friend who didn't make it. Ever, she's sitting there looking 329 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: at her clock. Hey, they were supposed to drop her 330 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: off and they'll be back in fifteen minutes. What happened? 331 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: Take a listen now. Two more from Cheryl Orange. So 332 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: I called, I called my boyfriend, I called Tea's brother 333 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: and I said, something's not right. And I text my roommate. 334 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: I said, something's not right. Nine o'clock, gut here, twelve o'clock, 335 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: gout here, midnight, and then now we're into Saturday morning 336 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: at ten twenty three, it's literally a few minutes before checkout. 337 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, dosn no win. I called the cops immediately. 338 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: She called the cops, immediately, the US cops. But then 339 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: stunning and shocking news developed. Take a listen to our 340 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: friends at NBC. New images from Mexican authority show the 341 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: gunmen trailing their white minivan minutes before they opened fire. 342 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: Additional appear to show travel documents, luggage, debit cards, in 343 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: cash that investigators found inside the vehicle. In the aftermath 344 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: of the attack, Mexican authorities scrambled as several different hospitals 345 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: for days trying to track down victims, before finally locating 346 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: all four inside this wooden shack after speaking with one 347 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: victim's family, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham promising We're going 348 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: to unleash the fury and my to the United States 349 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: against these car tails. Time stories with Nancy Grace, you know, 350 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: Charyl McCollum joining me, found her and direct to the 351 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: Coal Case Research Institute. Did you hear what the reporter said? 352 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: I think that doctor Angela Arnold is correct. They were 353 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: trailing the purps, the kidnappers, the killers, were trailing these 354 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: four Americans, a white minivan with a North Carolina tag 355 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: plate on it from the moment they crossed the border. Absolutely, 356 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: regardless of whether it's mistaken identity for Haitian drug dealers 357 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: or if it was just we're going to kidnap from Americans. 358 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: The issue is they were not only targeted immediately, there 359 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: were two or three vehicles following them. So this cartail 360 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: they're known as the golf cartail, was six or seven 361 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: people deep following these individuals. There was no ransom, there 362 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,239 Speaker 1: was no effort to contact their family, There was no 363 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: effort to contact Miss Orange, who's just less than twenty 364 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: miles away. So this was only for the purpose of 365 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: kidnapping and murdering these people, but for what gain if 366 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: there's no ransom. It is still confound. But guys, we're 367 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: learning more. It's not just a kidnap. Take close to 368 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: our friends, Simon Williams. They put out a request for 369 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: information through an email and a phone number, and after 370 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: some tips started coming in, they discovered the four South 371 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: Carolina Natives inside this wooden house right here at eight 372 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning on March seventh. It was about 373 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: a thirty minute drive from the crash scene. Two of 374 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: the victims were found dead and the other two were 375 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: found alive. Eric Williams was taken to the hospital that 376 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: you see right here. Now. They made one arrest, a 377 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: twenty four year old that you see right here, and 378 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: then the two victims that were found alive were turned 379 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: over to US authorities at the International Bridge in Brownsville, Texas. 380 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: They wrote here that the remaining two would be turned 381 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: over after Mexican autopsy experts finished their investigation. Right Mexican 382 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: medical Examerus okay joining me now a special guest. Former 383 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, legal commentator and president West Coast Trial Lawyers, 384 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: author of Harvard to hashtag. You can find him on 385 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: Twitter at Nima Romani. Nima, thank you for being with us. 386 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure to have you on. Always happy 387 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: to be honest. Niema, I've got a question. How is 388 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: this happening just fifteen miles away, actually less than fifteen 389 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: miles away from a Texas city. I don't get it, 390 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: and I also don't understand the motivation here. We have 391 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: dead American bodies and I so far have heard nothing. 392 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: What is this going to be? More quote Mexican justice. 393 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: Just like the drug lord that managed to get away 394 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: with an underground motorcycle track, remember him, Oh yeah, woking 395 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: forget El Chapo, famously escaping twice. I mean it's happening, Nancy, 396 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: because of Mexico is unable or unwilling to control these cartels, 397 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: and they've only increased in power over the years because 398 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: they've gone from being middleman transporting Colombian cocaine or Afghan 399 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: heroin to controlling the entire production of purely synthetic drugs. 400 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 1: And started with me Semside. I mean, now designers like 401 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: quc so now that they're construling the entire production and distribution, 402 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: and there's so much value in these drugs. The violence 403 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: is increasing. And the reason this is all happening is 404 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: because the level of corruption. It could be the locals, federals, 405 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: even the Mexican military and politicians. Entire country is corrupt, 406 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: and no one there is willing to take on these 407 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: cartels because all the politicians are in their pockets. You 408 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: know what's interesting, guys with me former federal prosecutor and 409 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: author Nima Ramani believe it or not, and I literally 410 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: wrote the book, including an extensive section on safety while 411 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: traveling abroad, and like the number one banner is don't 412 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: go to Mexico, believe it or not. As I was 413 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: looking at spring vacation with the twins, I actually considered 414 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: Mexico because it was so cheap on the water, this 415 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: beautiful resort, you have sites to go to of historical significance, 416 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: that I could drag the twins to all sorts of 417 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: water sports and fun things to do. I stopped myself 418 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: mid starch, and like, what am I thinking? I just 419 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: wrote this book for Pete's sake, I'm not going to Mexico. 420 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: And then right after that we learn about these four 421 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: Americans kidnapped, some of them murdered. I don't know if 422 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: there's just a willingness, a willingness to push away any 423 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: suggestion that it's a bad idea to vacate in Mexico. 424 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: But for some reason, people are still going in drugs. 425 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: It's right on our border. Question, do you what do 426 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: you believe NeiMa was the real motive for this? Cartel 427 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: usually does gonna make mistakes like this, and I can 428 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: tell you I put one of a thousand people in 429 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: Cederalvers and most of them Mexican drug and human traffickers, 430 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: and I never got an apology. And but going on 431 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: the original Pointancy, I agree. I mean spring breakers are 432 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: going to Mexico. And one thing that needs to be 433 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: discusted now that a lot of Mexican cities are party destinations, 434 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: places like Kloon Kancoon has always been popular. There are 435 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: a lot of drug deals going down in those cities. 436 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: It's not the drugs that are coming north from Mexico 437 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: into the United States, it's the cartels who want to 438 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: control the very lucrative drug deals in these party cities 439 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: as well. And that's why we're seeing an increase in 440 00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: violence there. Guys, this location, Matamoras is a level four 441 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: do not travel, But for some reason, these four Americans 442 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: seemingly go willingly and blind to the risks, some of 443 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: them to their deaths. Take a listen to Janet Shamley 444 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: and CBS. Metamorris is under a level four do not 445 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: travel advisory for the US State Department, the same threat 446 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: level issued for a rock or run in Afghanistan. The 447 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: city of roughly half a million people has been home 448 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: to warring factions of the Gulf drug cartel for decades. 449 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: The crimes are often unreported journalists fearing for their safety. 450 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: Mario signs as a community leader. We hear about the cartels, 451 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: we hear about the shootings, but when it involves kidnapping 452 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: or it involved Americans, it seems a very strong message 453 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: fright community. Here in Bronhill and all along the border, 454 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: US officials are not identifying the Americans, citing privacy concerns. 455 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: That's fifty thousand dollars FBI reward is not only for 456 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: the return of the victims, but also for the arrest 457 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: of the kidnappers. And there's more. Take a listen to 458 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: Matt Rivers this morning. The stunning image five men tied 459 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: up You're a truck in Mexico blamed for the kidnapping 460 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: of four Americans allegedly turned over by the powerful drug cartel. 461 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: They belonged to a handwritten note on the truck's windshield 462 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: claiming to be from the Gulf Cartel saying, quote, we 463 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: have decided to deliver those involved and directly responsible. The 464 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: image is obtained by ABC News from a source close 465 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: to the investigation. Also include this photo of guns, ammunition, 466 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: and body armor found in that truck. Body armor, guns ammunition, 467 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: body armor, guns, ammunition, and cool parton joining me crime 468 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: online dot com inst to get a reporter. These four 469 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: Americans never had a chance, body armor, guns, ammunition. They're 470 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: going for a tummy tuck for Pete's sake. They didn't answy. 471 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: They never had a chance. And there's actually a video 472 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: that one of them was taking, posting on their Facebook 473 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: and they're laughing and they're singing. They're driving down the road. 474 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: We're headed to Mexico. We're having a fun trip. The 475 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: next video they post, you can hear them trying to 476 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: follow their GPS. The GPS says make a less turn. 477 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: They mistakenly make the right turn, and then the video 478 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: shows that they're being followed by multiple cars. The gunfire 479 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: starts into their minivan. They never had a chance. There 480 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: was no way for them to get out of this situation. Guys, 481 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the four people that were 482 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: found and that would instructure Cheryl McCollough. They're referred to 483 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: as four people, but they're not all four living people, no, Nancy. 484 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: And the thing that's so sad is there is a 485 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: video that their families have had to watch, I'm sure, 486 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: and be made aware of. And the thing that strikes 487 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: me about this video before we talk about them is 488 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: this was broad daylight, Nancy. It's an open pickup truck 489 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: in the back where they put the victims. So after 490 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: shots are fired in the middle of the street, a 491 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: busy street, because other cars after this has occurred are 492 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: driving around them like it's a normal day. I'm just 493 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: got to get to my destination. So this tells you 494 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: this was not a blitz attack. If you watch the 495 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: kidnappers after the shooting occurs, they're walking. This is not 496 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: a blitz, quick in and out like a bank robbery. 497 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: This is not like an assassination where they're hit and gone. 498 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: This was something that the kidnappers were not afraid. They 499 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: weren't afraid to show their face. They weren't afraid to 500 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: take their time, they weren't afraid of being seen. So 501 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: this tells you this is a normal occurrence in this town. 502 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: So when the State Department says this isn't just a 503 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: warning to be cautious when you go there, we're telling 504 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: you do not go there. And sadly, this is what 505 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: has occurred to these four innocent people, and the ripple 506 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: effect to their family, to their friends, to their community 507 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: is going to be failed for a long time. Take 508 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eleven guys, our friends at 509 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: ABC The men blamed for this horrific abduction caught on 510 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: camera a week ago that left two Americans dead. On Thursday, 511 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: state police finding them at the same spot in Matamoros 512 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: where the kidnapping took place. The men now in custody, 513 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: though authorities not confirming whether these five were involved. Multiple 514 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: Mexican law enforcement sources tell ABC News the cartel note 515 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: is believed to be legitimate, but neither ABC News nor 516 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: US officials have been able to verify the authenticity of 517 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: the letter's claims. Now we have Americans is dead. However, 518 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: what we believe was a tummy tuck desire, I mean, 519 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, Even with covering criminal news all day long, 520 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: I actually considered a spring break to one of those 521 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: resorts in Mexico and then came to my senses and 522 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: remembered everything I had researched and written, and don't be 523 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: a victim. Why do we go so blindly? What happens 524 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: to our common sense when it comes to vacation or 525 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: in this case, a girl's road trip for a tummy tuck? 526 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 1: You know it's funny, Nancy. We were talking about this 527 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: this weekend and apparently even when people are planning their vacation. 528 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: We know that when people are on vacation, they let 529 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: their guard down. Okay, we've talked about that several times 530 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: on your Apparently now even when people are planning their vacation, 531 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: they let their guard down. We were talking to somebody 532 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: this weekend that told us, oh, yeah, I'm headed to 533 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: Cancun next week. Are you sure that's a good idea? 534 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: I'm not. And he just acted like it was no 535 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: big deal. He is planning his great trip to Cancun. 536 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: I immediately texted my little girl and I said, no 537 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: trips to Mexico. I don't know where y'all are going 538 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: for spring break, but it's not going to be Mexico. 539 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: No f nds or butts about it, but DFC. You 540 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: also have to wonder how many people that are planning 541 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: these trips to Mexico or even listening to the news 542 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: or realize that there's a that there's a level for 543 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: alert to go to some of these places. It's scary, 544 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: and Nancy, I'm telling you, you cannot convince people otherwise. 545 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: I also believe that the more money people spend to 546 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: go on a trip, because some places are very expensive 547 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: in Mexico, and the more money people spend, the saves 548 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: that they think they are And I don't agree with 549 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: that at all. Out of the so called medical tourists 550 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: that left that day, two Zendel Brown and Shade Woodward, 551 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: just ages twenty eight and thirty three, are dead. To 552 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor Nema Romani, NeiMa, do you think will 553 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: ever know what really happened, what the real motive was, 554 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: because I believe Nama, if we never know the true motive, 555 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: we will never be able to stop what happened to 556 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: these two victims. I don't think we will and this 557 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: is why. And you know, the cartel turning over these individuals. 558 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's par for the courts for them. So 559 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 1: whenever I would troughs to que cartel members and I 560 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: would know they are cartel members because there's a small 561 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: handful of attorneys that represent these folks. What they do 562 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: is they plead guilty. They don't cooperate, They fall on 563 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: the sword because the cartel is all about making money 564 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: and protecting people at the top of the organization. The 565 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: individuals at the bottom, the fall guys here, they're never 566 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: going to talk because if they do, their families will 567 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: be killed. Romani, I just keep thinking of all those 568 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: photos of El Chapo having escaped Mexican prisons twice, and 569 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: of course he was a drug lord. I have no 570 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: doubt that these perpetrators will have an opportunity to escape 571 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: a Mexican prison and that will be maypaple and the 572 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: wardens and the federales will just turn the other way 573 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: and pretend they don't know. Oh, there's no doubt. I mean, 574 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: there's no justice for these cartel members in Mexico. They're 575 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: not prosecuted, or if they are, they miraculously escape from 576 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: high security prisons. It's just not going to happen unless 577 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: they're arrested and extradited to the United States, or if 578 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: they're designated as terrorist organizations and the US military gets involved. 579 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: That's the only way we're going to see justice for 580 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: these four I mean name aunt Romani. The cartels actually 581 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: hang dead bodies off bridges to serve as a warning 582 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: to other infour months or turncoats. So who's going to 583 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: go up against the cartail They're nobody unless you want 584 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: to see somebody in your family hanging dead from a bridge. Fancy. 585 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: They're incredibly violent, and just like you said, there's hanging, 586 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: there's de competitions, and they're done in a very public 587 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: way to send a message and terrorize folks. They're no 588 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,879 Speaker 1: difference from any other terrorist groups. That's why Mexicans are 589 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: deathly afraid of them. And obviously we've lost some Americans, 590 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: but let's not forget about the thousands and thousands of 591 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: Native Mexicans and migrants who have been killed and kidnapped 592 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: by the cartels. And yet we the US government continue 593 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: to prop up Mexico's government. You know what, I know 594 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: how to fight crime. I don't know what to do 595 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: about US politics, but I know this These murders should 596 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 1: not go unavenged. We wait as justice and alves good 597 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: boys