WEBVTT - 9 - The Associates 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.480 You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.959 production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:18.000 In the criminal justice System, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.800 to reshape the law. The brave men and women who 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.079 investigate and prosecute these cases are part of a select 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.880 group that is defined American history. These are their stories. 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:39.120 November thirtieth, nineteen ninety four, Williamsburg Social Club, Brooklyn, New York. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.600 It's a scene right out of the movies. Cigar smoke 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.040 hung thick in the air as a group of men 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:48.400 faced off in a card game. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.720 It was late in the evening. They were playing a 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.000 Italian card game called Continental. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.520 The stakes were high, and tensions over one man's growing 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:03.640 debts were even higher. One man calls someone's bluff. Another 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:10.640 pulls a gun, and when the smoke cleared, two men 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.600 lay bleeding across the card table, one shot multiple times 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.319 in the back, another once in the head. The other 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.280 players cleared out ahead of the approaching sirens. If police 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.920 were looking for answers, it wouldn't come from them. 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.320 Everybody knew there was a lot more to it than 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.679 just some guy got shot in a social club. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.759 The San Giseppe Social Club was a wise Guy favorite, 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.560 and the double murder had all the markings of a 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.080 mob hit, except for one major difference. One of the 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.160 men had survived his wounds. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.240 The gun was so close to Derso's head that the 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.320 speed of the bullet as soon as it hit the 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.480 scullet came down his neck, so he wasn't dead, but 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.360 he was knocked out. They thought he was dead, and over. 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.800 The next several years, that survivor of a point blank 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.960 gunshot would plot a unique kind of revenge as a 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.120 secret weapon in the government's fight against organized crime, and 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.160 just might be the final nail in the coffin for 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.480 a generation of mob bosses. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.920 You're not with the mob because you want to be. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.080 It's the gangster that decides whether you're his associated on. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.000 If you like your life, you will vote to acquit. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:35.960 I'm Aniseega Nicolazzi. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.480 My father should have been a dead. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:43.679 Man from Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. This is Law 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:54.800 and Order criminal justice system. In the years following the 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.560 commission trial, the New York Mob was like a wounded animal, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:04.359 struggling but still dangerous, maybe more than ever, especially when 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.520 a man like Vincent Gigante could run his Genevese gang 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.200 from prison, and an army of made men were getting 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.720 wise on how to avoid prosecution. By the mid nineteen nineties, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:20.520 the Five Families had taken significant blows to their respective leaderships, 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:25.119 but these were organizations that had survived crackdowns, mass indictments, 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:29.200 and even all out wars. Exterminating the mafia from every 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.960 corner of the criminal underground would not happen overnight. After all, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.800 there were still plenty of up and comers ready to 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.560 step into vacant leadership roles and willing to unleash an 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.120 unprecedented wave of violence to secure their newfound power. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.160 My name is Christopher Blank. I was a member of 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.440 the Brooklyn DIA's office from nineteen eighty four to twenty 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.480 twenty three. I went from a line assistant to an 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:01.360 executive ADA in charge of organized crime investigations and grand 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:06.200 jury presentations and trials. I just started in this work 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.440 when Castellano got killed outside of Sparks. 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.400 With his resume, Chris Blank is the kind of lawyer 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.000 who could probably walk into most law firms in the 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.320 country and write his own ticket. But for this recently 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.760 retired prosecutor serving his community, in this case, the people 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.320 of New York was his higher calling, especially when it 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.480 came to prosecuting organized crime. 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.000 Being a lawyer was never about making more money than 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.479 the next guy. To me, it was more about the 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.960 opportunity to do the right thing, and being a prosecutor 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.960 in these kinds of cases was to me the epitomy 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.799 of that kind of practice. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.719 During his career, he also learned that it can feel 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.080 like a never ending battle against an enemy so skilled 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:52.080 at self preservation. 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.080 This applies across the board to all sophisticated criminals running 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:01.719 corrupt criminal organizations, whether they're Russian, Chinese, or Eastern European 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.919 or even street crime gangs that are becoming more sophisticated. 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.440 They have developed a layering system, a hierarchy system that 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.880 insulates the bosses from ever being prosecuted because they're never 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.200 the ones out on the street, on the front line 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.039 exposing themselves to law enforcement. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.279 And the shooting at the Williamsburg Social Club was a 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:27.120 unique opportunity to examine this hierarchy up close and ultimately 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:28.440 exploit its weaknesses. 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.480 The Social Club was the actual social club that Sonny 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.160 Black and Donnie Brasco had their interactions. 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.760 In Donnie Brasco was the name used by undercover FBI 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.800 agent Joe Bistone, who infiltrated the Banano crime family from 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:48.080 nineteen seventy six to nineteen eighty one, resulting in over 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.599 two hundred indictments, one hundred convictions, and one great movie. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.400 The club was already on law enforcements radar as a 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:01.000 monster hangout, but by nineteen ninety four, after the commission trial, 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.120 many were keeping a much lower profile than their predecessors, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.400 and congregating clubs easily targeted by the FEDS was not 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.239 any mobster's idea of a good time. 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.200 It had now become a local, non organized crime oriented 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.720 Italian social clubber Italian guys from Neighborhood and Williamsburg got 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.479 together to play cards and have family events that wasn't 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.520 available to them in their apartments in their homes. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.200 Which is not to say that the violence that erupted 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.960 in the early hours of that November day was unknown 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.919 to the neighborhood, which had long been a stronghold of 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.280 the Genovese crime family, but it was a reminder that 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.120 the specter of the mob had far from vanish from 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.960 the everyday life of ordinary citizens inside the club. The 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.920 first officers to arrive took in the crime scene. One 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.880 man was dead on the floor, shot multiple times in 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.479 the back. The other had a bullet wound to the 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.640 back of his head, but incredibly, he was still breathing. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:02.400 Paramedics removed both from the scene, one to the hospital 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:07.400 and one to the morgue. Witnesses were scarce, at least 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.720 ones that were willing to talk to police. Cards and 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.360 chips were scattered on the floor, so detectives assumed a 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.080 disagreement over the card game turn violent, but given the 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.680 club's history and reputation, they also had to consider the 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.480 possibility that this was a hit. The first step would 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.880 be identifying the victims. The man in the hospital who 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.920 survived a bullet to the head was Michael Cookie Durso, 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.400 and the man in the morgue was his cousin. Here's 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.600 special Agent Mike Campy, a New York native who became 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.400 one of the FBI's experts on the inner workings of 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:42.320 the Five Families. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.160 Michael Durso grew up in Brooklyn, the Green Point section 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.440 of Brooklyn. His cousin first cousin was Tino Lombardi, and 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.960 Tino Lombardi worked at Riggierio's restaurant. Eventually Derso worked at 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:57.120 the restaurant. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.280 As Chris Blank tells it, Derso Lombardi as more like 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:01.720 a brother. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.080 He adored his cousin. They were a team, and they 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:07.840 were as close as his cousins could be. 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:13.440 But to detective surprise, despite their thick files unknown mob members, 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.920 neither Derso or Lombardi showed up on any of the 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.400 org charts of the five families, which, according to Campy, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.120 is not to say that they didn't dabble in the life. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.400 Growing up in the neighborhood. Derso was a tough kid. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.800 He could bench over four hundred pounds. He was on steroids. 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:37.760 He did some time in prison for a check cashing scheme. 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.360 I believe he was on the news as Cashanova's because 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:46.480 they would sort of engage the tellers into conversation as 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.319 they were banging out bad checks. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:53.400 So he's basically flirting to get over to commit the crimes. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:54.960 that is what I had not heard before. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.800 And they called him cashanovas him and his cousin. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.720 Eventually, the two Kashanova's graduated from small time grifts to 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.160 loan sharking, bookmaking, and running illegal after hours card games, 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.679 all of which required an intimidating physical presence, which Derso 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.880 had in spades, and the tacit approval of the local 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.760 crime family, who would never let a good profit go 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.560 unnoticed without getting their cut. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.200 Derso, who was a nicknamed Cookie, was very smart and 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.480 Lebarda was smart and were connected to a old time 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.080 geneviezk guys from Manhattan, Sami Paro and Joe Zito. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.439 So Derso and his cousin were promising up and coming 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.920 gangsters with well connected friends, but they were not made men. 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.520 They weren't officially part of the family. 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:45.400 Now. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.400 Over the course of the last eight episodes, we've talked 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:53.680 about bosses, under bosses, capos, and soldiers, but there's another 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.920 important cog in the wheel of organized crime. The associates. 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.240 Associates have a holy unequal partnership with sworn members of 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.360 a crime family. They may be partners in a criminal 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.840 scheme or racket, maybe even friends, like in the case 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.839 of associate Pite Savino and Vincent Gigante. But unlike made men, 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:18.240 associates do not benefit from the family's profit sharing or 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.680 their protection. In fact, some associates may even have more 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.080 in common with the victims of the mob than with 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:29.240 the mobsters themselves, because often their partnerships with the crime 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.240 family are not of their own choice. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.520 When you're hanging out with people affiliated with organized crime 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.480 and they love showing money, they want to pick up 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.280 the tab, they want to pay for things. That is 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.840 the process of facilitating an association with you. At some 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.400 point in time, they're going to tell you that you're 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:51.120 with them. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:51.960 All of a. 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:56.320 Sudden, you become a victim of extortion, and you don't 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.000 have a choice because over time, the implied threat is 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.800 your family's in jeopardy. See that's the thing about associates. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.240 I try to explain, it's the mobster's choice. You're not 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.040 with the mob because you want to be. It's the 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.560 gangster that decides whether you're his associator. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:18.960 On associates like Derso and Lombardi aspire to be made 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.640 men equals with the ones extorting them, but in reality 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:29.480 they were pawns in a larger game, interchangeable and if necessary, disposable. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:34.400 One of the recordings I made that demonstrates the hypocrisy 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.240 The life was with Jackie de Ross. Jackie de Ross 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.280 was an acting boss of the Colombo family, and we 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:45.480 made a recording where de Ross identified associates as suckers. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.600 They think they're in the life, but we. 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:48.560 Just use them. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.880 I believe that's almost a verbatim quote. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:56.800 Ambitious associates were lured in with promises of profit protection 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.560 and the prestige of becoming made down the road, but 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.960 their existence was often much bleaker. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.800 There's so few associates that ended up becoming inducted into 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.600 a family, and it's because you need these other supporting 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:16.720 cast members to generate cash for the family, but they're used. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.160 Which brings us back to the night at the social 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:24.000 club in Brooklyn where Derso and Lombardi ran their regular 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:24.560 card game. 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.320 They were good up and coming associates of organized crime, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.640 learning from their mentors and getting into their own little 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.920 loan sharking activity and paying tribute and eventually getting into bookmaking. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:38.560 So they were on the rise. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.880 As you can imagine, Gambling was also a great way 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.880 to create repeat business, and two of their best customers 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:48.359 just happened to be mobsters. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.800 Derso and Lombardi have a social club in Brooklyn and 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:58.199 Carmei and Poledo, Mario Fortunado, and others would gamble at 0:12:58.200 --> 0:12:59.400 this club card games. 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.040 Polito and Fortunado were not as highly respected, although they 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.240 were also anxious to be thought of as tough guys 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:08.959 in the neighborhood. 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.440 Carmea and Pallito was also a chronically unlucky gambler, and 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.120 he was up to his eyeballs in debt to Drso 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.040 and Lombardi, a predicament that might get a man in 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.240 serious trouble, but being a mobster kept him in the 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.959 game and presumably out of the hospital. But Polito resented 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.960 being in hawk and so he concocted a scheme to 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.679 clear his debts. The plan to ambush Drso and Lombardi 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.280 during a card game. Robbing the pot might even put 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.760 cops off the scent while netting Pollito a few bucks 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:47.240 to defeat his gambling habit. And because their targets were associates, 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.800 they didn't need permission from the boss, nor would they 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.680 likely face a serious reprimand. But as they would soon 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:59.319 find out, the hit would still have major consequences. Here's 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.760 Chris Blank and Mike can't be on how it all 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:02.559 went down. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.480 Sally Lombardi and Derso, who were cousins and were very 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.600 tight were in the club, and Mario Fortunado and Carmin 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.080 and Polito were in the club. Mario his brothers run 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.320 the Fortunado Bakery, which is a very famous bakery on 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.840 Manhattan Avenue, not too far away from the social club. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.440 They were playing a Italian card game called Continental. Time 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.000 went on and kids from the neighborhood came by. Their 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.520 reason for coming in the club was to shoot and 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.320 kill both Derso and Lombardi, those two guys for Anthony 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.680 Cherissulo and Anthony Bruno. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.760 Because Derso was so muscular and had a tendency of violence, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.240 they shot him in the back of the head first. 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.120 Lobardo was shot several times and he was killed. Cheri, Sulo, 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.960 and Bruno ran away, and Fortunado and Polito both ran away, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.720 so leaving Derso down on the floor shot in the 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.360 back of the head and Lobarti down on the floor dead. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.480 In the ensuing investigation, local police failed to gather much information. 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.360 Nobody was willing to tell the full story of what 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.280 went down. They were trying to piece it together and 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.880 I'm sure they were shaking the trees with their informants 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.960 in the area trying to get answers, and they might 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.400 have had a thumbnail sketch of what they thought might 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.280 have happened, but not enough to bring to. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:28.600 A prosecutor and their best witness. Drso, even after recovering 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.560 from his injuries, was still playing good soldier and refused 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:33.480 to talk to police. 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.720 The tradition in this case was you don't talk to anybody. 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.040 I think Derso felt that he would be able to 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.760 get satisfaction by bringing his case that Fortuneo him Pluto 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.400 should have to answer for the shooting. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.000 In other words, Derso thought he could get his justice 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.520 straight from the Genovise bosses for whom he had been 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:55.960 a loyal earner for years. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.640 Drso was out running his organized crime life and trying 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:04.840 to get satisfaction from the Genevie's crime family when he 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.920 came to realize that Pleato and Fortunato were backed by 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.280 a different capo and he was a powerful Genevie's guy, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.040 and continued to be a powerful guy to the end 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:13.360 of his. 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:19.400 Life, and so his demands for retribution fell on deaf ears. Derso, 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.720 not being a made member of the mob, didn't benefit 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:27.480 from the same oaths of protection or revenge. Despite the 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.280 indignity of that slight, Derso was willing to stay loyal 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:35.160 and stay quiet about who killed his cousin and left 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.480 a bullet in his skull. But soon his loyalty would 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.920 be tested again, this time thanks to a dispute with 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.720 a made man. Here again is Mike Campy. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.960 Derso had betters gamblers that bet had in office, and 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.480 the guy that took the bets was I'm not making 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:58.119 this up, it's hilarious, was a guy named Johnny Zero. Apparently, 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.720 Zero realizes some of dersa those betters that bet pretty 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.920 big consistently lost, so he decides one day to set 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.199 the bets side rather than record them and keep the 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.879 money for himself. Well, the betters hit I think it 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.719 was about thirty thousand dollars or something like that forty 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.639 and Zero doubled down. So he did the same thing again, 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.520 now it was like seventy eighty thousand, and when Durso came, 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:29.720 he explained it, and that facilitated a call to Zero's boss. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.119 Derso demanded that Zero's boss make good on what he 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:34.520 was own. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.800 He gets call from an unknown mail, and the unknown 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:43.920 mail describes how you can't touch my guy. Don't ever 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.120 touch my guy. Now he doesn't identify himself, and Derso 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.919 finds it insulting. He goes back to the office, calls 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.680 the unknown mail up on the phone, and basically in 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.280 a vulgar, disrespectful manner, says, I can't beat your guy, 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.040 and he proceeds to give Johnny zero of beating. So 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.080 Derso basically hangs up on this guy because he felt 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.840 that he was disrespected. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:13.320 The confrontation earned Derso a quick reprimand from a portly 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.959 Geneviz capo known as Sammy Meatballs. 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.760 He gets a call from Sammy Meatballs directing him to 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.520 come down immediately to meet with him. He goes down 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.600 to see Sammy in Little Italy and Sammy describes how 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.720 Frank Farbi Surperco is the current acting plust of the 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.560 Genevese family. Nobody in the Genovese family really knows but 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:42.119 a select few, and apparently Derso insulted Farbi on the phone. 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.320 It was Farbi that was on the phone calling Derso, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.280 and Farbi wants to kill Derso. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.919 Derso had been in the dark that the guy on 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.960 the other end of the phone was the acting Genevi's boss. 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.400 He had already survived one hit, he found himself again 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.400 on the Genevie's most wanted list. 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.919 That was the second thing that rubbed Derso the wrong way. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.439 It really infuriated him that he couldn't retaliate on his 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.800 shooting and his cousin's murder. And now you've got the 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.240 acting boss of the Genevese family wants to kill him. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.800 But his new Genevese enemies had underestimated the associate because 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.160 if Derso couldn't get justice their way, he would get 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:25.679 it another. 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.800 That was kind of the last straw for Derso. He's like, 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:31.800 you know, I've done all these things. I've made all 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.600 this money for them. I've stayed quiet even though I've 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.080 been shot in the head and my close cousin has 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.320 been murdered. They've done nothing to help get to the 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.560 bottom of this or exact retribution for this on my behalf. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.080 And now they want to kill me. So I'm done. 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.919 So he literally, on his own initiative, contacted the FBI, 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.080 came in and agreed to wear a body wire. 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.280 After years of trying to earn his way into the 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:04.440 FO the Genevese crime family, Derso decided to swap sides. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.560 Armed with a wire hidden inside an FBI customized Rolex, 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.480 Derso became an informant, swearing revenge on the men that 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.880 killed his cousin, but to get the goods and watch 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:32.679 them all go down, he had to stay alive. Despite 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.359 being just an associate. Michael Cookie Drso had been a 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.159 strong and loyal earner for the Genevies, but after the 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.560 attempt on his life, he knew exactly where he stood 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.760 in the MOP pecking order. Here again, his former Brooklyn prosecutor, 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:48.840 Chris Blank. 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.119 Deursa was smart. He understood what he was doing. He 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.480 knew why he wanted to be a member of organized crime. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.879 He knew the benefits and he knew the costs. He 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.600 was successful at when this came down, he made a 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.320 decision that all the things that attracted me to this 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:12.679 are basically bs. Everybody's out for themselves, nobody's protecting me, 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.760 and I'm going to protect me and my family from 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.480 these people, and I'm going to come on board. And 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.800 I know what that means. That means I have to 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:24.359 tell the full story, hold nothing back, and do whatever 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:25.240 they asked me to do. 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.520 Derso was not held by any sworn oaths of loyalty, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.080 but he surely knew that by cooperating with the FBI 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:34.679 he was risking his life. 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.600 I'm sure he didn't have to wear a wire, but 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.720 his level of anger at the organized crime figures who 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.240 failed to support him and back him up and get 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.119 retribution led him to want to go further than your 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.320 average cooperator and agreed to wear a wire, even though 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:52.719 that would put his life in danger. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.280 Mike Campy ran point on the operation. 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:02.760 My role in operating Derso was to generate criminal conversations 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:06.359 involving not only the Genevese family, but others that interacted 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:07.399 with the Genevese family. 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.200 For Derso, it would mean making nice with the very 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.400 men who threatened to kill him and continuing to kick 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.200 up profits to the Genevese bosses who sanctioned it. But 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.119 Derso had learned a thing or two about self preservation, 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.080 and while the FEDS used his recordings to collect crucial 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:29.800 information about Genevi's inner workings, Derso never lost sight of 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.840 his own targets the men who killed his cousin. 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.080 And for the next two years, Mike Derso was probably 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.280 the most successful cooperator out in the street that the 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:45.479 FBI ever had, and these recordings were all kept quiet 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.320 until it became time for Drso to come in from 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:49.240 the street. 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:55.840 As a result of Derso's cooperation, prosecutors issued dozens of indictments, 0:22:55.880 --> 0:23:00.879 including the two men against whom Derso had sworn revenge. 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.960 The FBI took a renewed look at what went down 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:06.679 and decided they did have enough evidence to make a 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:08.880 case and present it to the Eastern District and get 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.840 an indictment of Fortunado and Polito. 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:17.040 In the subsequent murder trial of Polito and Fortunado, Derso 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.640 took the stant and described Polito as a degenerate gambler 0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:23.200 who conspired to kill him and his cousin to clear 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:28.479 his debts. But among Polito's many mistakes was leaving Derso alive. 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.600 Palito and Fortunado were convicted for the murder of Tino Lombardi, 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:39.159 but not long after their convictions were actually reversed, but. 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:41.760 Looked like a very solid case until a second circuit 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.040 got its hands on it and decided that the shooting 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:49.320 here was not a violent crime and native racketeering, but 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:53.920 a personal beef and therefore didn't fit the federal statutory elements, 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:57.119 and so they reversed the conviction, which was a shock 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:58.560 to everybody. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.520 Meaning that the two men had to be tried again, 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.119 but this time in state court, which is where former 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.719 Brooklyn prosecutor Chris Blank entered the picture and would go 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:12.120 on to lead the case. The case continued on its 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:16.520 complex legal path, with a second trial, one acquitted and 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.960 one convicted, and then yet another reversal, but that deep 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:25.000 dive is a story for another day. By this time, 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:29.840 Derso had entered witness protection, but before he disappeared, he 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:33.880 and his roleex had also gathered evidence implicating a very 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:40.320