Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to bet your happy hour.
Speaker 2: Joe and I'm Sarena and we are here today with
Speaker 2: Cat Cat and welcome back.
Speaker 1: It's a happy hour.
Speaker 3: Hey guys, happy to be just here.
Speaker 1: You were just here.
Speaker 2: But the show is officially aired, so now we can
Speaker 2: talk about that's gone down.
Speaker 3: It's happening.
Speaker 4: Huh, it's happening.
Speaker 1: How overall, how are you feeling so far?
Speaker 3: I mean much better that this time, like than I
Speaker 3: was before. It's you know, it's definitely just like more
Speaker 3: fun to watch, Like it's actually like a good show,
Speaker 3: Like it's just really it honestly, it's an entertaining not
Speaker 3: just with my situation, but like everyone's Like it's it's
Speaker 3: fun to see everyone's personalities like actually come through and
Speaker 3: you can just see it. It's been really fun.
Speaker 5: Is it looking and feeling like you expected it to
Speaker 5: after filming?
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean we had an idea, but nobody could
Speaker 3: have expected it to look this good, Like like the
Speaker 3: ring lights were really like doing their job, like it
Speaker 3: looks so good, and like the slow mo and like
Speaker 3: the little like white lotus like noises in the background,
Speaker 3: Like I'm like, wow, this is like elevated elevated because
Speaker 3: we had like some idea, but the creative is not
Speaker 3: top notch.
Speaker 2: Is there anything so far that you've watched back that
Speaker 2: surprised you about any of anything like your castmates or
Speaker 2: anyone said or has done that You're like, oh, fuck,
Speaker 2: I didn't know that one down.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, actually a lot of things. Well, I mean
Speaker 3: I knew Brian was being toxic. I saw it from
Speaker 3: I talked it like day one, that he had that
Speaker 3: in inside him. Did I think he was taking it
Speaker 3: to the level that he was in the interviews? Absolutely not.
Speaker 3: I feel like that happens every year. We like see
Speaker 3: what people were saying in their internal dialogue, that a
Speaker 3: lot of things should probably stay inside your head, and
Speaker 3: you know the Jeremy and Bailey stuff. I mean, I
Speaker 3: learned about that later, but like I still had no
Speaker 3: idea that it got to the extent that it was,
Speaker 3: or that their conversation was as heat as it was.
Speaker 3: I learned more about like how close people's relationships were prior.
Speaker 3: Like there's just a lot of things that you have
Speaker 3: a lot more private moments I think in this setting,
Speaker 3: so you don't really see everybody's like relationship playing out
Speaker 3: and people were still kind of keeping their cards close
Speaker 3: to their chest at this time. So yeah, I think
Speaker 3: it was just I'm learning a lot.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go, let's let's let's cut to episode one.
Speaker 1: Day one. You're down there?
Speaker 2: Sure who Dale isn't there yet? Who are you potentially
Speaker 2: interested in?
Speaker 3: I mean, Day one for me was really just like
Speaker 3: getting the jitters out, feeling comfortable in this environment and
Speaker 3: learning who everybody was. Like I kept calling Spencer Sebastian
Speaker 3: like I could not get his name right, so now
Speaker 3: we have a running joke about it. But like it
Speaker 3: was more so just like feeling everyone's energy. I would say,
Speaker 3: like I had the most like banter with Jonathan, Like
Speaker 3: we had like good like back and forth. So that
Speaker 3: was like fun, but like it wasn't that intense, like
Speaker 3: oh we're like people were actually just like pulling you
Speaker 3: to chat, like nobody cared, Like Kyle pulled me to talk,
Speaker 3: Jeremy pulled me to talk, like everyone was just kind
Speaker 3: of like making an effort to get to know everyone
Speaker 3: and go into like one on one conversations about it.
Speaker 3: And then even the girls, we just all wanted to
Speaker 3: like learn about each other, and like I knew no one,
Speaker 3: So it was just kind of like a taking in
Speaker 3: everything at once.
Speaker 2: Dale shows up and we interviewed Jonathan, and Jonathan said
Speaker 2: he was interested in you, and then Pal showed up
Speaker 2: and he kind of saw the way you reacted. I know,
Speaker 2: she was really excited, and then he's like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: I immediately checked out. Do you think is that true?
Speaker 2: And do you think he should.
Speaker 1: Have kept pursuing you? Because that's that's how he That's
Speaker 1: what he said.
Speaker 5: But it does seem like on the show it does
Speaker 5: look like he's still pursuing you.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, because I wouldn't say he checked out.
Speaker 3: Maybe he like wanted to. Okay, this is backstory. I
Speaker 3: knew no one going into this. I didn't know who
Speaker 3: was going to even potentially be there. Ricky told me like, oh,
Speaker 3: by the way, I have you heard of like Dale,
Speaker 3: like he might be coming here, And that was I
Speaker 3: think day one, and I was like, wait, that sounds familiar,
Speaker 3: and I was like, wait, he's an adult, Like he's
Speaker 3: like he's like a like a like an adult man.
Speaker 3: And so I was like, oh my god, wait, that's
Speaker 3: really exciting if it's true, because like he could be
Speaker 3: someone I would actually be like super interested in So
Speaker 3: that's where the excitement came from because I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: so that actually is happening. And at that point, no
Speaker 3: one was really like like I know Jonathan's he I
Speaker 3: think he's like afraid to like make moves. So he
Speaker 3: was almost like giving friend zone bribes to everyone, and
Speaker 3: he was not being direct until Alex told him to
Speaker 3: be direct, and then he actually, I don't remember what day,
Speaker 3: it was, definitely up until this point, he had told
Speaker 3: me like, by the way, I'm interested in you, and
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I'm like still vibing with you too,
Speaker 3: Like I just because I was excited about Dale doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that I'm not excited or like still interested to
Speaker 3: pursue and like. But he was like I was surprised
Speaker 3: to like not see you in the kissing booth and
Speaker 3: stuff like that. And that was like a few days later,
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, really now, because I wouldn't
Speaker 3: even if you wanted to kiss me. Why didn't she
Speaker 3: kiss me before? Like why didn't take a challenge? And
Speaker 3: that's kind of where I was at. I was like, well,
Speaker 3: these guys all had their chance first week. They didn't
Speaker 3: want to make it I'm not going to like kiss
Speaker 3: them now, like that's weird. So yeah, because I want
Speaker 3: a man that like will not have to wait for
Speaker 3: someone to put us now. So that's why I was excited,
Speaker 3: because I was like, okay, like he is definitely someone
Speaker 3: I can see like more. And but at that point
Speaker 3: the guys, I was like maybe, but like I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I just didn't have like that clearer vision of that.
Speaker 3: Yes that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that clears things up. Okay, okay, so so Dale's
Speaker 2: down there is there is there a spark right away?
Speaker 2: I mean it seems like you guys really hit it off.
Speaker 3: I think we just like felt like, okay, you get it.
Speaker 3: I get it, like you've been here before, like there
Speaker 3: was no one there that had been in this environment
Speaker 3: before besides.
Speaker 4: Me, well Justin, but just there quite yet. Oh wait.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was like that was platonic and he
Speaker 3: was like doing anything with Lexi.
Speaker 4: But no, did Justin pull you to chat?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm okay, but there was never a world where
Speaker 1: you and Justin were would have killed each other.
Speaker 3: You have the same birthday. I can't date a Gemini
Speaker 3: man that has exact same birthday as me. That's crazy.
Speaker 3: University had handled that. No, but I think we just
Speaker 3: like that was where I was coming from. I also
Speaker 3: just like kind of liked his like confidence and like
Speaker 3: just overall aura Like he wasn't like getting he was
Speaker 3: just he was clearly just like moving with however he
Speaker 3: wanted to move like throughout when he came in and
Speaker 3: I saw like Zoe initially pull him and like everybody
Speaker 3: get excited, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna see
Speaker 3: if he comes to me, like I'll be there, I'll
Speaker 3: be in conversation, but I'm not going to be like
Speaker 3: all over because that's just like not really how I
Speaker 3: am anymore. And so but then once we like started talking,
Speaker 3: I mean immediately was like okay, yeah, like we can
Speaker 3: like we can kick it. It's like there was no
Speaker 3: awkward like moments or anything like that. We got deep
Speaker 3: really fast and felt comfortable doing so Okay.
Speaker 2: So now you're you're kind of I don't want to say, well,
Speaker 2: are you locked in at this point?
Speaker 4: Like, well, let's talk about your date first with Neil.
Speaker 3: How the day go date was great? Yes, I got
Speaker 3: sick no, I and I know.
Speaker 1: I would have got sick to I mean that would
Speaker 1: have been the worst I knew.
Speaker 3: I knew off rip. He even knew that I knew,
Speaker 3: like like I took a Zo Friend, which is an
Speaker 3: anti Najamed prescription based I was eating my ginger tablets
Speaker 3: and I had a drummine in my system, but sitting backwards,
Speaker 3: it was a wrap. But it's I did not like
Speaker 3: I kept it so cool, like I was like trying
Speaker 3: to keep it together. So he actually like did not
Speaker 3: know how unwell I was until I couldn't take it
Speaker 3: anymore because I know people are like, why didn't he
Speaker 3: like do anything. I like truly didn't say anything until
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, we've had our conversations, like I
Speaker 3: need to take a break, and that's when I was like,
Speaker 3: let me flip around and just like see the horizon.
Speaker 3: But I didn't want to like interrupt our conversations by
Speaker 3: like being like, hey, I can't, like I'm about to
Speaker 3: throw up in my mouth. So it was like that's
Speaker 3: what it was, but overall so much fun. We just
Speaker 3: got really deeply fastic. We connected about like both being
Speaker 3: engaged in that place and having like our own situations
Speaker 3: post show with the world, and it just felt like
Speaker 3: someone I could like really like understands that unique experience
Speaker 3: that you don't really find here as often. So we
Speaker 3: just really connected. I think, like on that level for sure.
Speaker 2: Is there another man from veter Nation that could come
Speaker 2: down that you would be interested in at this point?
Speaker 2: Like was there anyone else you were hoping to see
Speaker 2: down there?
Speaker 3: I'm I Joe. I literally didn't know anyone like I
Speaker 3: was thinking they were going to bring in like I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: they brought in like someone that I had never heard
Speaker 3: of or something like I don't know or like I
Speaker 3: mean I judge people, but then they come in there
Speaker 3: completely different. So and I have really been so apart
Speaker 3: from the Bachelor world up until that point for like
Speaker 3: two years, so I really didn't really even know who
Speaker 3: was like a possibility. But I will say, like it
Speaker 3: was obviously day two. I didn't want him to feel
Speaker 3: like just because we went on a date, he has
Speaker 3: to like stay loyal to me in any capacity, like
Speaker 3: I told him, like keep having conversations with girls, like
Speaker 3: get to know people. I was going to go back
Speaker 3: and still talk to Jonathan, like we had this great
Speaker 3: moment and like if but you use that moment almost
Speaker 3: to like if you're still thinking about that while you're
Speaker 3: talking to other people. Then that says more. And I
Speaker 3: just never wanted him to feel like he was confined
Speaker 3: because I know his first experience was limited. So I
Speaker 3: don't think any of us were locked in yet.
Speaker 2: So you guys, you guys are still open. And then
Speaker 2: Dale is also I don't know, I wouldn't say pursuing,
Speaker 2: but there's these having conversations with Ali Joe and are
Speaker 2: you aware of that.
Speaker 1: At the time?
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's week two. I was after the first
Speaker 3: Frost ceremony. I knew girls were coming in. I knew
Speaker 3: he was going to be a hot commodity like Hughsdale.
Speaker 3: I had a feeling that maybe like that was going
Speaker 3: to be one of the girls that she was interested, Like,
Speaker 3: I mean it's Dale, Like I figured every girl's going
Speaker 3: to come in and be interested. Did I know the extent. No,
Speaker 3: But I also wasn't pressing, like I wasn't like like
Speaker 3: trying to get like if he wanted to tell me,
Speaker 3: he would And that was still early and I didn't
Speaker 3: want it to feel like he had any obligation to.
Speaker 3: We did talk about like transparency. That was like one
Speaker 3: of our first things, like that was our foundation was
Speaker 3: to make sure that we are just completely open about
Speaker 3: how we're feeling and what's happening, because these are people
Speaker 3: that are literally living next door to us. And last
Speaker 3: one is to find out stuff from watching it back
Speaker 3: or you know, hearing about it from someone else. You
Speaker 3: want to come from this person who've been creating a
Speaker 3: connection with. So but at the same time, like the
Speaker 3: intimate things, I feel like I wasn't really pressing at
Speaker 3: that moment because it was still so early.
Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, So now we're going to cut to
Speaker 1: this week's episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, from we do did you.
Speaker 5: Know because we're about to get into you know, the
Speaker 5: Ali Joe kiss of it all before we go there. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you know that Dale kissed Zoe in the kiss challenge?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I knew all the kissed. He told me
Speaker 3: about all the girls he kissed.
Speaker 5: Okay, so after the kissing challenge, you guys did debrief.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew all the girls who kissed in there. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 3: I was doing the math, like while the girls were
Speaker 3: going I had like a way of figuring it out. Okay,
Speaker 3: So I knew that he kissed like all four of them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: in the kissing challenge. But then I was, so you're
Speaker 3: interested in her?
Speaker 5: Okay, that's fine, right because it was you, Zoe, Ali, Joe,
Speaker 5: and then I believe Alex. Yes, yes, okay did that
Speaker 5: because we didn't really see a lot of aftermath from
Speaker 5: the kissing challenge? Did that cause any rifts or were
Speaker 5: you like okay, I'm like, I'm just clocking that, Like
Speaker 5: that's where you're at right now.
Speaker 3: I told literally all the girls, I said, you should
Speaker 3: all put down like you all guys should all kiss
Speaker 3: in Like why not? He's so hot like I would. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was here for it. I mean, what did I
Speaker 3: think he was going to do all that? I don't know,
Speaker 3: but I feel pretty confident in my kissing.
Speaker 5: Any part of you want to explore, I kissed with Jonathan.
Speaker 4: In that change.
Speaker 1: Did you kiss anyone else or just Dale?
Speaker 3: No? I just kissed Dale. I thought about it. But
Speaker 3: like I said, I like those guys had already been
Speaker 3: there for a week with me, so like you wanted
Speaker 3: to make a move, you absolutely could have had the chance.
Speaker 3: Like we've had many converts like one on ones that
Speaker 3: probably didn't have the reason to be aired. So like
Speaker 3: if they are not going to I'm not going to
Speaker 3: be with somebody that it takes that moment to be
Speaker 3: put forced together to see if there's chemistry. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: that was just where I was coming from. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I just didn't think it was necessary.
Speaker 5: Did the kissing challenge with Dale spark any insecurities about
Speaker 5: his potential connections with other women?
Speaker 4: Or were you good about where you're at?
Speaker 3: I felt really good at that moment because like he
Speaker 3: told me we were solid, So I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: so you couldn't do your thing. But I guess maybe
Speaker 3: I was last and like, you know, no, I don't know,
Speaker 3: And yeah, he said we were solid, so I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: we're good. But I also was like if we're not,
Speaker 3: like I'll be like it's fine. It's like I just
Speaker 3: met esterday.
Speaker 2: Are you still like him telling you you guys are solid?
Speaker 2: But in your head, are you still somewhat open to
Speaker 2: like pursuing Jonathan or if someone else comes down or that.
Speaker 3: I feel like you kind of have to be like
Speaker 3: I am someone that's I have. I feel like you
Speaker 3: like in that space, you kind of have to like
Speaker 3: be still open because that's the point is to like
Speaker 3: see where your emotions go. But I definitely had my
Speaker 3: strongest like feelings and like I would say, like formed
Speaker 3: foundation with Dale, Like we had spent we got back
Speaker 3: from the date, we spent the whole night together, like
Speaker 3: we spent the whole morning together, Like we're kind of
Speaker 3: we were kind of like attached at the hips. So
Speaker 3: even though we've kind of sparked off and talked to people,
Speaker 3: like we all, we kept coming back to each other.
Speaker 3: So I felt like that was like a good We
Speaker 3: were definitely connected the most.
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 2: Okay, So then in this episode, you and Dale are
Speaker 2: having a conversation and you asked him did you kiss
Speaker 2: Ellie Joe outside of the challenge? And he says yes,
Speaker 2: And then you guys get into a little back and
Speaker 2: forth where you said, you know, I thought we were
Speaker 2: going to be transparent, why didn't you tell me this?
Speaker 2: And he was like, this wasn't a big deal. It
Speaker 2: wasn't even on my mind. So kind of just like run.
Speaker 1: Us through what the issue was with that.
Speaker 3: Everything there in that first conversation, Yeah.
Speaker 1: The first one, the first one on.
Speaker 4: You're like sitting on the beach, it's daytime.
Speaker 3: You know. I asked that question and I did not
Speaker 3: expect that response. I so I was just first taken
Speaker 3: it back by being like, oh, okay, I.
Speaker 4: Wouldn't think he kissed Sally Joe when you asked, you
Speaker 4: thought that was going to be.
Speaker 3: No, right because why have why have all these hours
Speaker 3: gone by that that was not said, you know, and
Speaker 3: so I.
Speaker 1: Would have kissed if you would have kissed Jonathan, of
Speaker 1: course you would have let him know.
Speaker 3: At this point, well, we said we met it, we
Speaker 3: set the foundation that transper like literally our connection is
Speaker 3: the strongest, so like if that changes or if like
Speaker 3: that was like a conversation we had. Okay, I think
Speaker 3: that was initially the night that Ali Joe went on
Speaker 3: the date, so it was like the night of the
Speaker 3: kissing challenge because that's when we debriefed everything and really
Speaker 3: moving forward, like let's just make sure that we're honest
Speaker 3: about everything. Like this environment's already a lot for both
Speaker 3: of us. So for that precedent to be set and
Speaker 3: then not met, I'm like, okay, what and also just
Speaker 3: as who I am, like hey, by the way, because
Speaker 3: we're all around each other, and again I'd rather come
Speaker 3: from us than someone else because then I can get misunderstood.
Speaker 3: And so anyways, I was just like, oh okay, so
Speaker 3: that was like not what we talked about, and I
Speaker 3: just kind of like took it in and kind of
Speaker 3: let him just talk. I think, if I can remember correctly,
Speaker 3: that was like where my mind was going. And I
Speaker 3: was just like like absorbing, but also like frustrated obviously
Speaker 3: because that was like just not where I thought it
Speaker 3: was going to be. But it wasn't. Again, it was
Speaker 3: it wasn't about the kiss. It was like, so what
Speaker 3: else is it that I don't know? Like what else
Speaker 3: has happened that I'm not being And then that's like
Speaker 3: where my mind started going.
Speaker 5: Right, Like you're feeling like if I hadn't asked this,
Speaker 5: I might not have known, So like what other questions
Speaker 5: do I need to be asking to make sure I'm
Speaker 5: getting all the information right?
Speaker 3: It's like more like that you said you were going
Speaker 3: to do something and didn't stand on it, like didn't
Speaker 3: do it. Like now I'm like all my little trust
Speaker 3: issues are being like starting to get you know, alarm
Speaker 3: alarmed at the moment, But I knew I needed to
Speaker 3: sit with it before I like really responded, because I
Speaker 3: didn't want to come from a place of like just
Speaker 3: you know, triggers and alarms.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that he could have said in that
Speaker 2: first conversation that would have.
Speaker 1: Brought some closure to the situation, like maybe.
Speaker 3: Not using the word debdited as often as he did,
Speaker 3: because that to me, like I get it, but it
Speaker 3: was like so like non serious, and like to me
Speaker 3: that moment was like serious. So it was like please
Speaker 3: use a different term, and it was making me go crazy.
Speaker 3: I think all I wanted. I don't because I hope
Speaker 3: I was able to communicate at the time, Like it's
Speaker 3: but you know the issue with like the lack of
Speaker 3: communication that was done.
Speaker 1: That's that's how it comes across.
Speaker 2: It doesn't come across. It doesn't come across like you're
Speaker 2: upset about the kiss. It comes across that you're upset
Speaker 2: that he didn't tell you.
Speaker 3: And all I needed to hear in that moment probably
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I see that. I know that I
Speaker 3: sat that and like are we set that? And I
Speaker 3: didn't live up to it? And I can understand why that.
Speaker 3: Can you know, bring up some things for you and
Speaker 3: like moving forward, I'll be more mindful and maybe giving
Speaker 3: some perspective of the situation, like but not from a
Speaker 3: place of like you have to like give perspective, but
Speaker 3: also like acknowledge that what I'm feeling is not like
Speaker 3: just because it's not a big deal to you, to
Speaker 3: mean that's not going to hurt my little sensitive heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I just think if he just acknowledged that,
Speaker 3: then we wouldn't have had to have the same conversation
Speaker 3: that we had later or that was also what I
Speaker 3: was seeking.
Speaker 5: So yeah, and by dead ad it it seems that
Speaker 5: he's essentially saying, like I ended things with Ali Joe,
Speaker 5: like I told her there's nothing there, so like there's
Speaker 5: not an issue issue over but it didn't seem like.
Speaker 4: That was actually your concern.
Speaker 5: It was not you guys were just not like lining
Speaker 5: up on the communication.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the communication was like not there. We were like
Speaker 3: speaking a different language to each other almost. Yeah. I
Speaker 3: just think that like it was he was like doing
Speaker 3: with the classic like guy like logic where they like
Speaker 3: want to like talk about the actual situation, but in
Speaker 3: doing so, like are like the women like just want
Speaker 3: to be like I'm heard and I'm seen and like
Speaker 3: I'm okay and I'm safe, And when they get so
Speaker 3: fixated like intellectually on the situation, it completely like you
Speaker 3: lose the picture like it didn't need to get there.
Speaker 3: It could have been like squashed, but it was. I
Speaker 3: was trying to say that, but I think even the
Speaker 3: more I was saying that, it just kept going like this,
Speaker 3: like over and over, and then I was feeling more unheard.
Speaker 3: And up until that point, like we I have trust
Speaker 3: issues going to this environment. I've been open about it.
Speaker 3: I've been honest about it. Who wouldn't. I'm sure he
Speaker 3: does too. I don't think we understood enough about each
Speaker 3: other's triggers. So I think we were kind of like
Speaker 3: hitting old wounds on one another without even realizing. And
Speaker 3: that's like the place that we were coming from, and
Speaker 3: that's why there was such a misalignment.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And in the second conversation that you guys have
Speaker 5: before in the Row ceremony, he seems very fixated on
Speaker 5: the timing of the conversation.
Speaker 4: He's really upset that.
Speaker 5: You've brought this up before a Row ceremony, and he
Speaker 5: wishes that you'd waited, like done it earlier or later.
Speaker 5: As a viewer, it's not totally clear like why that
Speaker 5: timing is so uncomfortable for him.
Speaker 4: Can you maybe shed some light on that?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I don't know, I still don't fully understand it.
Speaker 3: I think what he I mean, maybe it was the
Speaker 3: fact that he's like, well, time has gone by, I
Speaker 3: thought it was over. Maybe he felt anxiety about it
Speaker 3: being real ceremony night and he didn't want it to
Speaker 3: be a thing on a night that was already stressful,
Speaker 3: and I should have been like more like cautious of that,
Speaker 3: but like for me, I'm thinking, like, I don't even know.
Speaker 3: It has nothing to do about that.
Speaker 1: Like it was real quick. Was Dale ever under the
Speaker 1: impression that you knew that he had kissed Elie Joe? Okay,
Speaker 1: so okay, that would that would be how.
Speaker 2: The timing thing would maybe make sense in my mind
Speaker 2: where it's like you knew this information, you held it
Speaker 2: for a few days, and then you brought it up
Speaker 2: before the role ceremony, where he's like, why wouldn't you
Speaker 2: bring it up?
Speaker 4: But you'd clearly found out off morning?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically in his perspective, So that morning I find
Speaker 3: out and then we still go about the day, but
Speaker 3: I'm still like I'm talking about Jonathan talking about with
Speaker 3: my girls. I'm like still like making sense of it.
Speaker 3: So I was like, I think he thought the conversation
Speaker 3: was over in the morning, and so I said, I
Speaker 3: know that, like I had to stay with it for
Speaker 3: a second. And now this has come up, and like
Speaker 3: initially I wanted it to be like a moment that
Speaker 3: brought us together, like, hey, these are my triggers, Like
Speaker 3: if you say you're gonna do something and you don't
Speaker 3: do it, it really hits old wounds of like people
Speaker 3: that can't be trusted. And this is already like tough
Speaker 3: enough to we don't know each other yet, so like
Speaker 3: that's really like I wanted it to be a moment
Speaker 3: that we can understand each other better. And instead of
Speaker 3: I was not like coming down on him for it.
Speaker 3: I really just wanted I didn't feel like he fully
Speaker 3: understood me the first time, and that still needed to
Speaker 3: be addressed. Also, I doing those things you learn about
Speaker 3: people's communication styles and what they can handle and how
Speaker 3: you guys come to agreements of things, and I still
Speaker 3: needed to get a better assessment of that, and that
Speaker 3: was my time to do it. Time is limited. I
Speaker 3: wasn't ready to have the conversation fully ex didn't really
Speaker 3: fully understand where my emotions were at, and that I
Speaker 3: expressed that to him. I don't think he heard it,
Speaker 3: because I think he was in such a defense mode
Speaker 3: that a lot of the things I said went right
Speaker 3: over his head and he was just like focused on
Speaker 3: making sure that I understood that it was deaded.
Speaker 2: I guess, Okay, so why why did you give him
Speaker 2: your ros?
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like I'm not afraid of conflict,
Speaker 3: you know, like's I feel like, if anything, it's like
Speaker 3: I saw it as like a turning point to like
Speaker 3: help me understand how we can still move through things,
Speaker 3: like we're all making choices in real time with like
Speaker 3: limited information. And I still felt like we had enough
Speaker 3: built up until that point where we could just be
Speaker 3: having like a hard moment and we're going to keep
Speaker 3: going from there. Like people have hard moments, couples have
Speaker 3: hard moments, and I'm not just going to run when
Speaker 3: we have like not the best discussion. And I still
Speaker 3: had like I you know, I just I don't know,
Speaker 3: It's not like I'm like, Okay, we have a hard time.
Speaker 3: I'm like done.
Speaker 1: I mean I think it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that was yeah, Like we had built
Speaker 3: so much up into that point. I'm not just going
Speaker 3: to walk away from it, and there wasn't like, really,
Speaker 3: I wasn't interested in starting fresh with anyone.
Speaker 5: Else At any point were you seriously considering not giving
Speaker 5: him your rose? And do you think Dale was like
Speaker 5: I feel like I'm in jeopardy now.
Speaker 3: I mean, he did say some shit right for the
Speaker 3: rose ceremony that I was like, interesting, But.
Speaker 4: What did he say?
Speaker 3: I think that was when he first said the background
Speaker 3: thing okay, and so that was like, oh, is this
Speaker 3: where this is going? And I was like, oh, I
Speaker 3: don't know if I like that very much, but I
Speaker 3: still had curiosity. I don't think I was ever like
Speaker 3: fully fully committed to or at all to walking away
Speaker 3: from that relationship yet at all. Yeah, No, that was
Speaker 3: he was always going to be. I knew that it
Speaker 3: was we were going to continue on, and I felt
Speaker 3: like I was giving assurance. Like I don't think I
Speaker 3: don't know why he would ever feel like he was
Speaker 3: in jeopardy like of that. I understand how like may
Speaker 3: have with the Jonathan stuff, but like if you feel
Speaker 3: like we're like as solid as you say, like you
Speaker 3: know that, like this is just a hard conversation and
Speaker 3: like even though it's on a rose ceremony night, like
Speaker 3: that doesn't change anything it's just just the limited time
Speaker 3: that we have.
Speaker 5: Yeah, can you tell us more about the Jonathan stuff.
Speaker 5: Our conversation with him, He described it as more of
Speaker 5: just like you guys were friends and he was just
Speaker 5: wanted to be there to comfort you. But where it
Speaker 5: does kind of look like he's maybe interested in seeing
Speaker 5: if there's some wiggle room to get rose and to
Speaker 5: explore a relationship.
Speaker 3: I thought it was friendship. I thought it was friend
Speaker 3: like when he sat down with me, like, you know,
Speaker 3: it was funny, like I was, like, it was just
Speaker 3: it was actually like cinematic communic timing. I literally said, well,
Speaker 3: I like floting with Jonathan and I'm just like flirt
Speaker 3: with him the rest of the night and walks right
Speaker 3: over like that was like real that actually happened, And
Speaker 3: so it was just comedic timing. But I think he
Speaker 3: really was coming for a place of just trying to
Speaker 3: check in on like me as a friend. Like it
Speaker 3: wasn't like he wasn't trying to like swoop in at
Speaker 3: least the way I was seeing it.
Speaker 4: HM.
Speaker 5: Okay, so you guys have kind of developed like a
Speaker 5: genuine friendship at this point, and it's from a pass
Speaker 5: of support.
Speaker 3: And I had I had definitely asked like I was
Speaker 3: getting a guard from him earlier and like talking through
Speaker 3: my emotions and so but friends flirt, so maybe not usually,
Speaker 3: but but at the time it was still like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, you good advancer. But overall now I don't
Speaker 3: think it was ever like gonna be romantic. And I
Speaker 3: think you do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you give you give dall your rose, and
Speaker 2: you guys will smile, kiss, happy yay. And then right
Speaker 2: after you guys get back.
Speaker 4: Into I think you made a joke about situation.
Speaker 5: You kind of tried to make like what happened it
Speaker 5: felt like for you like I had kind of remember.
Speaker 3: I remember that vivid, vividly so funny. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: he's not saying any words like I'm gonna like I'll
Speaker 3: do it, and I'm like, let me make a joke
Speaker 3: and maybe he'll it'll light in the mood and he'll
Speaker 3: realize like we're good, like we're just gonna pick it
Speaker 3: up later things are. I could just see it in
Speaker 3: his face, and uh.
Speaker 5: I'm assuming for you, like you guys will be having
Speaker 5: more conversations about this, but just right now it's not done.
Speaker 4: But like, let's try to lighten up, Let's.
Speaker 3: Have a good night, let's go to bed, like not upset.
Speaker 3: So I make the little joke and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: that that didn't land. I guess you hated that, and
Speaker 3: uh that opened up the conversation. But at that point
Speaker 3: I was actually like, first of all, you're supposed to
Speaker 3: laugh when I make a joke, so that's annoying. Second
Speaker 3: of all, why are we still talking about this? Like
Speaker 3: what do you mean? Like do you not understand that
Speaker 3: we could just like move on tomorrow like you said?
Speaker 3: But like also like why are we going back and
Speaker 3: forth at the same thing. I just feel like we
Speaker 3: were talking about the same thing. And I definitely felt
Speaker 3: like I got more frustrated there because I'm like, I
Speaker 3: just we're I gave you my rose, We're moving on,
Speaker 3: Like what's what is the problem, Like, let's not be
Speaker 3: so like hostile with each other. We can still have
Speaker 3: the conversation. But I felt hostility and like almost like
Speaker 3: he was like, yeah, like shutting me out. And I
Speaker 3: didn't like that very much.
Speaker 2: Well, I was it was frustrating the watch because you
Speaker 2: guys are not in a place where you're having this
Speaker 2: this argument, but you're not communicating like both of you
Speaker 2: are on like two different like you're saying one thing
Speaker 2: he's saying and nothing. And it's like there's no way
Speaker 2: with the way that you're going you guys are going
Speaker 2: about this, you're not going to find a solution.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because the conversation got worse and worse because the
Speaker 5: emotions just got heightened and heightened, and you had simmered
Speaker 5: down like faster than he had, and it just kind
Speaker 5: of like reignited for that last I think.
Speaker 3: I remever that high. I think I stayed you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you didn't ever seem that he did.
Speaker 3: But I also noticed that he was so like when
Speaker 3: I noticed that he was getting worked up, I really
Speaker 3: was like, okay, I need to stay here because if
Speaker 3: I match him, then this is going to go through
Speaker 3: the roof. And I kind of wanted him to pick
Speaker 3: up my energy to like we're okay, we're safe, We're okay,
Speaker 3: we're safe, Like we can just have this conversation. It
Speaker 3: just like didn't At that point. I think I was
Speaker 3: starting to climb too, because I'm like, this is like insane,
Speaker 3: like why are we still tapping this conversation? Why can't
Speaker 3: we meet? I looking back, I realized like there was
Speaker 3: no way we did. We were literally speaking a different language.
Speaker 4: Like actually, so going to bed that night, how are
Speaker 4: you feeling?
Speaker 3: Oh? I was really sad that night he said that
Speaker 3: comment about the background, and it was so like as
Speaker 3: I was walking away that I was just that I
Speaker 3: think all the emotions came at once, and like all
Speaker 3: my fears of like judgment and everything just like hit me.
Speaker 3: And not just that, but like I was really afraid
Speaker 3: to get back into a relationship that might be unhealthy,
Speaker 3: and like right now the way we're communicating was pretty unhealthy.
Speaker 3: And so it wasn't just like a throway comment, like
Speaker 3: it hit pretty deeper, honestly, deeper than I thought it
Speaker 3: was going to. But it just like brought up the
Speaker 3: misunderstooding fear like judgment like for just who I am.
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, well, it works really hard to
Speaker 3: show up this way, like to be fully self. And
Speaker 3: then so when someone that I care about is like
Speaker 3: implying that our differences might be a problem, it just
Speaker 3: makes me like question, like, Okay, maybe I'm too much,
Speaker 3: like maybe I shouldn't or anything. Am I like enough?
Speaker 3: And that kind of like burbage like language that he used,
Speaker 3: like even if it wasn't meant to be hurtful, just
Speaker 3: poked at like some really hard wounds that I went
Speaker 3: to bed with that night, and like I truly was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I
Speaker 3: should have never came here, Like I had a whole
Speaker 3: crash out because I tried to do the right thing.
Speaker 3: I tried to bring up the things and like say
Speaker 3: as calm as possible, but and then I felt like
Speaker 3: because it wasn't perfect that and I was like, what
Speaker 3: do you know about my background? Because I don't come
Speaker 3: from the best background, Like I actually have had a
Speaker 3: lot of things. Do you know about that? And you're
Speaker 3: using it against me? Like what or do you think
Speaker 3: that I come from this like perfect life? And now
Speaker 3: it's you know, I don't know. I just didn't understand it.
Speaker 3: So I created my own narrative of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was.
Speaker 3: And then I was like I just I didn't know
Speaker 3: what was going to happen when I woke up, Like
Speaker 3: I was like really contemplating just like giving up, yeah,
Speaker 3: just being drama.
Speaker 2: You know, we we we'll see what happens. Because this
Speaker 2: is basically the end of the episode or like the
Speaker 2: end of your story, we see of you and d Also,
Speaker 2: we're excited to keep watching. I hope you guys work
Speaker 2: it out, but you never know. Kat, thanks so much
Speaker 2: for taking the time and coming on the podcast.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. This has been such a better
Speaker 3: experience overall. I would say it's been so fun.
Speaker 4: So far, so good. We're happy for you.
Speaker 3: Thanks, guys, this has been great. Thanks for having.
Speaker 2: Me, of course, and to all our listeners, thank you
Speaker 2: for tuning in the Batchler Happy Hour. Make sure you
Speaker 2: download and subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker 4: Keep watching Bachelor in Paradise, and thanks for listening to
Speaker 4: Bachelor Happy Hour. We have new expecive interviews every single week.
Speaker 3: Bye.