1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,320
Speaker 2: Jared not is the author of the international bestseller Tiny Blunders,

3
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 2: Big Disasters thirty nine Tiny Mistakes That Change the World Forever,

4
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 2: and the brand new one, Tiny Blunders, Big Disasters Book two,

5
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 2: The Many Tiny Mistakes That Changed the World Forever. Jared

6
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 2: was a decorated combat infantry officer in Vietnam in the

7
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,160
Speaker 2: first Air Cavalry Division. Jared, Welcome to Coast to Coast, AM.

8
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:31,639
Speaker 2: How are you?

9
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,200
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Richard. It's an honor to be here.

10
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 2: It's a great concept for a book. How do you

11
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 2: even begin researching something like this or do they just

12
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,520
Speaker 2: are there so many examples? It's more question of which

13
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,360
Speaker 2: ones don't you want to include in the book.

14
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 3: Oh yes, it's amazing when you start digging into history,

15
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 3: how many goof ups there are out there. People don't

16
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 3: look at history that way. We kind of see history

17
00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 3: as a series of large, ponderous events. This invasion happened

18
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 3: in such and such a date. This wark took place

19
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 3: between these months and these years, and so on and

20
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 3: so forth. But really, when you dig into it, it's

21
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 3: this history. History is more of a mosaic of a

22
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,040
Speaker 3: lot of small, tiny events that compose those major events.

23
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,560
Speaker 3: And with some of those tiny events are mistakes, and

24
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 3: some of them set off a domino effect that can

25
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 3: have a catastrophic results in the end. And that's what

26
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,279
Speaker 3: I do with my two books, is to turn history

27
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 3: sideways and look at it from a unique perspective. And

28
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 3: it's amazing how many Smike's Chinese mistakes, small mistakes, bunders,

29
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 3: group ups have had horrible, horrible consequences of long term.

30
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 2: I wish you taught history to me in high school.

31
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 2: I mean, we learn names, we learn dates, we name

32
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 2: we learn places and events, but don't we don't learn

33
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 2: about the human aspect to historical events.

34
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 3: Yes, I sort of say people magazine approach to telling history.

35
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 3: Some people consider history to be kind of dull, and

36
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,800
Speaker 3: it can't be if it's pulled the wrong way. But

37
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 3: when you look really kind of from the human perspective,

38
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,079
Speaker 3: from the personalities involved, the weakness strengths of the individuals

39
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 3: making decisions, that gives it more of a personal perspective

40
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,639
Speaker 3: that you can relate to better and makes it a

41
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 3: lot juicier, a lot more, a lot more fun to

42
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:27,240
Speaker 3: delve into.

43
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 2: All right, I want to dive right in with a

44
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 2: llallapalooza of a tiny blunder which led to well, it

45
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,919
Speaker 2: doesn't get much bigger in terms of an historical event

46
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,639
Speaker 2: than the collapse of the Roman Empire? Is it someone

47
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 2: inadvertently forgot to lock a gate and that led to

48
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 2: the collapse of the Roman Empire.

49
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,000
Speaker 3: Yes, it was the you might have to call it

50
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,119
Speaker 3: the vestige, the final vestige of the Roman Empire, which

51
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 3: was the giant fortress at Constantinople. And it was a

52
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 3: magnet deficitly designed fortress. It had like three different barricades,

53
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 3: three different walls, and then it had a moat around

54
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,920
Speaker 3: it and it stood for over eleven hundred years. Have

55
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,919
Speaker 3: been attacked a number of times, have been successful. There's

56
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,200
Speaker 3: one brief period, but it was taken over for two years.

57
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,040
Speaker 3: I think it was. Except for that, it stood attack

58
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,799
Speaker 3: after attack hundreds of hundreds of years. So the two

59
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 3: or three events that were changing its ability to stand unchallenged,

60
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 3: and that was the development of cannon. I have begun

61
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 3: its toloy. It was fourteen fifty three and the cannons

62
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 3: had been developed. That was one factor. But then, yes,

63
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 3: coming to the tiny mistake. Someone forgot to close and

64
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 3: lock a gate on one of the main walls. And

65
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 3: Helen musksinoat a cute funny cartoon about two and a

66
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 3: half years ago and shows a soldier in bed with

67
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 3: his helmet on at night with a kind of a

68
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 3: bubble showing his thoughts, and it said, did I remember

69
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 3: locked that gate last night? And no he did not,

70
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 3: which allowed the enemy from the Ottoman Empire to get through.

71
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 3: It was one of the factors that led to the

72
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 3: fall of constantineble with again the last remnant of the

73
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,359
Speaker 3: Roman Empire. It's a little more complicated than that that

74
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,159
Speaker 3: the big cannons were a factor. And there was one

75
00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 3: great big cannon like twenty seven feet long, a bronze cannon,

76
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,520
Speaker 3: and which she was what they call a bombard, which

77
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 3: means that shot a great, big, giant rock as opposed

78
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:38,040
Speaker 3: to a lead projectile. And it was a very effective

79
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 3: and battering down the walls. But it also it blew

80
00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,719
Speaker 3: up at one point and it killed the engineer who

81
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 3: designed it, plus the workers that were with him. So

82
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,640
Speaker 3: effected for a while. But after a while, of course

83
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,840
Speaker 3: that the backpart, so to speak, and it was very

84
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,280
Speaker 3: extremely loud by the way as you might imagine, and

85
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,799
Speaker 3: no have some of those cannons in museums are about

86
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 3: five hundred years old, which is kind of an interesting

87
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 3: development in itself. But yes, there was somebody who got

88
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,280
Speaker 3: to close and lock the gate that led to the

89
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 3: fall of the Roman Empire.

90
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that is so fascinating. How does that

91
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 2: come down to us in history? I mean, was the

92
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,719
Speaker 2: night watchman keeping a log and he said, bill forgot

93
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 2: to close the gate.

94
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 3: I don't know the Of course, the umpires had those

95
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 3: river bands they put around their fingers, so keep track

96
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,560
Speaker 3: of the downs when we went two and three and

97
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,479
Speaker 3: four and so on. Like I guess, somebody didn't have

98
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 3: a a sisto and he got distracted and they had

99
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 3: to go there back. It was just the wrong time.

100
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 3: But somehow that mistake took place, that tiny quote unquote

101
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 3: tiny mistake, which was pivotal in the fall of the

102
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 3: last fortress of the Roman Empire and after being in

103
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,919
Speaker 3: existence for well over one thousand years. So it was

104
00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,080
Speaker 3: one of those in one of those human eras that

105
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,720
Speaker 3: had horrible consequences.

106
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 2: And is there a common threat you see connecting these

107
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: tiny mistakes is a human error is it over confidence,

108
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 2: maybe something deeper in our psyche.

109
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,599
Speaker 3: Well, there's a kind of you can say, is attention

110
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 3: to detail. You mentioned in the introduction the butterfly effect,

111
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,760
Speaker 3: and that was actually developed by a gentleman, the doctor

112
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 3: Lorenz And he was a leading mathematician back in the

113
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 3: nineteen fifties, and he was dealing with a number back

114
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 3: then that had it was a number a decimale and

115
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 3: eighteen small numbers behind it. Of course, he was smaller

116
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 3: and smaller the further and further to the rights to advance.

117
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 3: And he was working with the computers of the day,

118
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,039
Speaker 3: and it was taking a long long time. There was

119
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,240
Speaker 3: a weather prediction, the type formula, and he was taking

120
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 3: a long time to finally run the full extent of

121
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,480
Speaker 3: the required per formulation, which he was these little tiny numbers,

122
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 3: so some of these low ball six of them at

123
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,600
Speaker 3: the end, and that won't make much difference, you know.

124
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,120
Speaker 3: He just said, he's saved me a lot of time.

125
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 3: But he was amazed when he did analysis of how

126
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 3: those six numbers had a huge, huge multiplier effect at

127
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 3: the end. It's a little bit analogous to saying you're

128
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 3: starting off in San Francisco heading East, and you're going

129
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 3: to try to go to London. Okay, but your asthmauth,

130
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,400
Speaker 3: your cousin, your compass reading is off just a degree

131
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 3: and a half or or two degrees or something like that. Well,

132
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,600
Speaker 3: by the time you get to London, you're actually down

133
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 3: in Lisbon, or you're a north or something like that.

134
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 3: It's a progressive type thing. It shows up more and

135
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 3: more and more and more and more. But anyway, he

136
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,119
Speaker 3: made a presentation back in the late nineteen fifties explaining that,

137
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 3: and he said that would mean in terms of whether

138
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,239
Speaker 3: that's a butterfly we're flapping its wings down in Brazil,

139
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 3: that would set off a chain effect that could lead

140
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 3: to a cyclone in Texas a year and a half later.

141
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 3: And that was the birth of the concept of the

142
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,239
Speaker 3: butterfly effect. And what we're doing course of the book

143
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 3: is we're looking at the butterfly effect in history. How

144
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,840
Speaker 3: this whole tiny mistake multiplied into this next incident, multiplied, multiplied, domino, domino,

145
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 3: and then at the end of the progression, boom, here's

146
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,760
Speaker 3: this horrible, horrible disaster.

147
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,120
Speaker 2: Well, one of the most conspicuous examples of the butterfly

148
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 2: effect in human history and I'm going to go back

149
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 2: to your first volume, Tiny Blunders, Big Disasters, thirty nine

150
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 2: Tiny Mistakes to Change the World Forever. The Titanic. Yeah,

151
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,560
Speaker 2: you know, the bottom of the ocean, two miles down

152
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 2: beneath the surface of the ocean, off the coast of

153
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,320
Speaker 2: Nova Scotia. If it weren't a single key that someone

154
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,440
Speaker 2: was supposed to hand off to somebody else, it may

155
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 2: may never have happened. Tell us about that.

156
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 3: Yes, they were. I had one gentleman that was assigned

157
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,559
Speaker 3: to be the second officer of the Titanic. But they

158
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,319
Speaker 3: say last minute is to a day before the voyage

159
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 3: was to take place. It changed officers in some places.

160
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 3: In that exchange. The key to a locker was now

161
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 3: passed along, and inside that locker were what they call

162
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 3: it glasses or binoculars. And the people out there in

163
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 3: the crow's nest were used in binoculars, especially at night,

164
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 3: to look for icebergs. And there they were, they and

165
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 3: then they didn't have the key, They did not have

166
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,080
Speaker 3: the glasses that they have the binoculars, and there they

167
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 3: were in the middle of the night, and they were

168
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,719
Speaker 3: looking for icebergs just with the naked eye. But they

169
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 3: had the binoculars and one of the gentlemen that was there,

170
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,160
Speaker 3: and of course they survived the sinking of the Titanic,

171
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,520
Speaker 3: and there was a big investigation in New York as

172
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 3: to what the cause of the sinking was. And he

173
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 3: was saying that they had had the glasses several days before,

174
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,320
Speaker 3: but they did not have the binoculars that particular night.

175
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,320
Speaker 3: And they asked him what differences that have made to

176
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,560
Speaker 3: what we've been able to see the Uh, it was

177
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,839
Speaker 3: what they call it black iceberg. It was not a

178
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,160
Speaker 3: white one. It was a little kind of a darker one.

179
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,240
Speaker 3: And they said they've been able to see it much sooner.

180
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,840
Speaker 3: How much of a difference that have made? Well, they're

181
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 3: given us, but it's ended in time to be able

182
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,200
Speaker 3: to get out of the way. So they said that

183
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 3: if they had the binoculars and they've been able to

184
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 3: scan the horizon, they could have seen the iceberg. And

185
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 3: they called down there to the engine room. Uh, you know,

186
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 3: turned to port please so many degrees. But then they did,

187
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 3: but just another minute or two, maybe even a half

188
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 3: a minute, that would have made all the difference. The

189
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 3: iceberg scraped down the right side of the starboard side

190
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 3: of the ship and it split open UH the rivets

191
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 3: that were along a strip that This is another interesting thing,

192
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 3: is that they had the UH. It was divided into

193
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 3: several different compartments. And they called the Titanic unthinkable because

194
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,880
Speaker 3: it could survive the flooding of any two of the

195
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 3: compartments and not sink. And they thought the worst disaster

196
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,160
Speaker 3: anybody I could think I was a ship hitting it

197
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,959
Speaker 3: right at the juncture of those two compartments and both

198
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 3: of them would flood, and they could survive that well.

199
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,319
Speaker 3: But what happened was when they hit the iceberg, the

200
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 3: scraped it down the side and it opened up like

201
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,680
Speaker 3: four of the compartments at one time, popping the rivets

202
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,680
Speaker 3: up off all the way down. And so all four

203
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,559
Speaker 3: compartments were sinking. And so they began to nose down

204
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 3: a little by little, and they saw what was happening,

205
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 3: and they realized that there was nothing much they could do,

206
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 3: and it was going to it was going to sink in.

207
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 3: And Captain Smith it was his name, may have survived

208
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 3: the initial sinking, and they said that he was. They

209
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 3: was swimming towards one of the lifeboats in the water,

210
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,559
Speaker 3: and then as he got closed he turned around and

211
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,000
Speaker 3: just swam away, according to one or two of the witnesses.

212
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,719
Speaker 3: So maybe he said he didn't want to maybe wanted

213
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 3: to go down with the ship. And I don't have

214
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 3: to face the inquiry in New York or whatever, But

215
00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 3: that's what happened. If somebody had passed the key along

216
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,080
Speaker 3: that went tiny mistake, they would have had the binoculars,

217
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,160
Speaker 3: they would seeing the iceberg, and the whole thing might

218
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:55,880
Speaker 3: have been avoided.

219
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,439
Speaker 2: Wow, I'm just trying to let this akin. How much

220
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,199
Speaker 2: of a world do you think fate or chance plays

221
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 2: in these worlds altering moments versus the idea that history

222
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 2: is simply the result of human decisions however small, Well, i'll.

223
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,839
Speaker 3: Leave that to the psychics that you interview. They might

224
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,480
Speaker 3: have a better answer than I do. That it gets

225
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,200
Speaker 3: into the metaphysics. And I don't doubt there's course the

226
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,200
Speaker 3: whole question of human will or the decision being made

227
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,560
Speaker 3: by the lord that the old quotation from Clint Eastwood,

228
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 3: A man must know his limitations, and that that's one,

229
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 3: and so I don't have the complete answer to so

230
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 3: I don't know that I do.

231
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Yeah, fair enough? Do you see parallels between

232
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,440
Speaker 2: the tiny blunders that you cover, and moments in our

233
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 2: in our personal lives where let's say, minor decisions or

234
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,559
Speaker 2: accidents conspiral into larger consequences.

235
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,680
Speaker 3: Oh sure, yes, of course, in everyday life, there's automobile accident,

236
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 3: somebody drops their keys, somebody drops their phone inside the

237
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,839
Speaker 3: car that reached them to pick it up. They tragically

238
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,080
Speaker 3: hit someone from the rear, they hit a pedestrian. There's

239
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 3: a many, many examples where tiny mistakes I remember done

240
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,680
Speaker 3: in Pinsacola, Florida, where I lived for a number of years,

241
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,080
Speaker 3: there was a captain who was pushing a barge to

242
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,840
Speaker 3: underneath the bridge and he somehow made a mistake and

243
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 3: he hit the bridge and they disabled it. It was

244
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,640
Speaker 3: like a year and a half for it to be

245
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 3: repaired where it could function normally again, so and so forth.

246
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 3: Where there's just a countless examples of automobile accidents, of

247
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:46,200
Speaker 3: a plane in accidents, of the train accidents that leads

248
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 3: to their tragedy walls of life. So that happens at

249
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,839
Speaker 3: that level, and then of course it also happened happens

250
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,320
Speaker 3: a political level, where military mistakes of political mistakes have

251
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 3: horrible quant consequences for and epic proportions for an entire

252
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 3: nation and entire people. So yes, the tiny mistakes are

253
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 3: with us, and they are a major part of our life.

254
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,640
Speaker 3: And one of the main things I'm doing in the

255
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,680
Speaker 3: book is especially for young people, is to convey the

256
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 3: message that the devil is in the details. You need

257
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,160
Speaker 3: to make sure that everything is just exactly right, that

258
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 3: settings are done correctly. I am preparing for operations and

259
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 3: preparing for airplane flights, et cetera. Cover navigational mistakes also

260
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,840
Speaker 3: in the second book. So those little tiny mistakes, they

261
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 3: can destroy your life. They can cost the life your

262
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 3: life and the lives of many people around us. That's

263
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 3: one of the main messages in the book, the whole

264
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 3: section there and the importance of checklists. I won't explain

265
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 3: all the details right now, but in the operating room

266
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 3: that was a major program to major development in that

267
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 3: area as well.

268
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

269
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

270
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 1: dot com for more Yah