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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nol.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are here,

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Speaker 3: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 3: to know. We're so glad that you chose to hang

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Speaker 3: out with us today. Disclaimer, we here, it's stuff they

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Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Do not accept tips due

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Speaker 3: to standing policies on objectivity. Plus we're not politicians. That

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Speaker 3: sounds snarky, you'll see why we are.

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Speaker 2: There's a service charge associated with you listening to this show, and.

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Speaker 3: That service charge is your personal data. So we have

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Speaker 3: a lot of fellow listeners from around the world these days.

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Speaker 3: We're very, very lucky to be part of this community.

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Speaker 3: And tonight's episode might come as a bit of a

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Speaker 3: surprise to our international community. If you haven't spent time

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Speaker 3: in the United States, you're gonna be really freaked out

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Speaker 3: by this one. We're here to explore something thoroughly confusing

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Speaker 3: and intergenerational, often irritating, sometimes life saving, and quite possibly

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Speaker 3: conspiratorial concept known as tipping. When's the last time you

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Speaker 3: guys paid a tip? Oh? Gosh?

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Speaker 4: I mean anytime I order you know, uber eats, or

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Speaker 4: take a lift, or you know, go to a restaurant,

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Speaker 4: get a haircut. I mean, it's just kind of become

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Speaker 4: this very, very very expected thing, and I don't want

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Speaker 4: someone to make a face, So I'm I always try

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Speaker 4: to tip, you know, above and beyond what's expected.

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Speaker 3: You feel social pressure, I do, I do? What about you, Matt?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so common. Literally, anytime there's a transaction, when

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Speaker 2: it's not an automated kiosk, right or some something where

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Speaker 2: there's no human being involved, there's probably a tip.

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Speaker 3: You don't tip your atm wow, nude, you don't give

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Speaker 3: you don't give your twenty percent the Wells Fargo. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: we're good into it. Here are the facts. Okay, what

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Speaker 3: is tipping? For anyone who doesn't know tipping is tipping

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Speaker 3: is kind of like a bribe, but it's not quite

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Speaker 3: a bribe. It's easily defined as the practice of providing

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Speaker 3: some amount of compensation above the stated price for product

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Speaker 3: or service. That sounds kind of simple.

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Speaker 4: Right, It sounds that way. It sounds like a reward

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Speaker 4: for a job well done, you know, and I think

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Speaker 4: you know that was the initial intent, but it is

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Speaker 4: kind of morphed into something much much different than that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like, okay, we use twenty percent just

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Speaker 3: a second ago. Let's say you're hanging out with some folks,

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Speaker 3: You're at a happy hour and you get a drink, right,

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Speaker 3: you get your social drink. That's five bucks. Let's call

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Speaker 3: it for the sake of math. The bill comes, you

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Speaker 3: owe five bucks? What do you add?

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Speaker 2: One dollar? Would be twenty percent had one dollar?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, cool, you go on your merry way.

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Speaker 3: But it's deeper, deeper than that. We we have, again,

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Speaker 3: a lot of international friends and contacts, and you know,

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Speaker 3: you guys, whenever we talk to any of our friends

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Speaker 3: who are not from the US or have only visited

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Speaker 3: the US for some discrete amount of time, they usually

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Speaker 3: cite a lot of confusing things. First off, honestly, they're like,

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Speaker 3: what's the deal with the guns and the flags? Secondly,

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Speaker 3: they're like, why do why do the prices in the

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Speaker 3: stores right in the convenience stores or the groceries or

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Speaker 3: the supermarkets. Why are they always more expensive? Why can't

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Speaker 3: they just tell me the real cost on the shelf,

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Speaker 3: right because of sales tax.

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Speaker 2: That is really strange that there's not more tax included

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Speaker 2: prices that just exist out in the world. That would

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Speaker 2: make so much sense. But but well, actually, when we

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Speaker 2: get into the psychology, yeah, when we get into the

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Speaker 2: psychology of tipping, there's the answer is right in front

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Speaker 2: of us, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, for example, used to work in this music

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Speaker 4: store and the owners had this pretty shady practice of

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Speaker 4: marking all of the instruments that were for sale with

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Speaker 4: what's called the list price, which is a price that

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Speaker 4: nobody pays. And when you market with the list price,

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Speaker 4: somebody is dumb enough to not know better, they will

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Speaker 4: let them pay that. That is absolutely a horrible thing

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Speaker 4: to do because they could get it for, you know,

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Speaker 4: a good percentage cheaper anywhere else. But it also gives

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Speaker 4: them this wiggle room and this illusion of discount where

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Speaker 4: they can be like, oh, no, I can't, We'll make

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Speaker 4: you a special price on that, and then chances are

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Speaker 4: the quote unquote special price is still going to be

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Speaker 4: more than you'd pay, you know, if you ordered it online.

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Speaker 4: So it's just it kind of gives this illusion of

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Speaker 4: getting a deal.

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Speaker 3: I think you're both right, Matt. I think you're talking

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Speaker 3: about the psychological anchoring phenomenon, right, like having something with

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Speaker 3: a twelve ninety nine instead of a thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's that, but there's also just the concept

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Speaker 2: of seeing a lower price.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: The sticker shock is a real thing, and it happens

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Speaker 2: the moment your eyes see a number associated with a

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Speaker 2: product or service, right, you then associate that product or

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Speaker 2: service with that price. And historically, if your brain has

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Speaker 2: made that connection, you know multiple times, if that price

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Speaker 2: is then higher somewhere else, you're going to think, oh

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Speaker 2: that's too high, or oh wow, that's really low.

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Speaker 3: And you know what confuses a lot of people, not

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Speaker 3: just folks visiting the United States, but it confuses a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who live in that country. The idea

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Speaker 3: of like you're at a restaurant, it's kind of fancy restaurant.

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Speaker 3: You want to order something that sounds delicious, and instead

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Speaker 3: of a dollar and cents price, you see the dreaded

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Speaker 3: initialism MP market price, baby market price, baby roll the dice.

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Speaker 3: Let's see how how profoundly you want to impress your date?

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Speaker 3: What kind of fools eron do you want to run? Okay,

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Speaker 3: the big thing that people often report word visiting from

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Speaker 3: abroad is confusion about tipping. Why is it so confusing?

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Speaker 3: There's no real standing policy or law enforcing it. No,

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Speaker 3: there is no federal law that says you need to

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Speaker 3: give two dollars to the person park in your car. Right,

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Speaker 3: there's no federal law saying that you need to pay

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Speaker 3: twenty percent above the price of your sandwich or your

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Speaker 3: you know, your latte or what have you. Instead, tipping

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Speaker 3: is socially expected. It's a behavior that's cultural and often

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Speaker 3: unexplained in discrete, clear, concrete terms. It's become normalized over time. Right,

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Speaker 3: Like we've had these conversations off air. You can hear

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Speaker 3: any number of people with the confidence, the confidence and

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Speaker 3: authority of the blissfully ignorant tell you that they know

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Speaker 3: exactly how to tip, where to tip, and the intervening variables.

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Speaker 3: Right Like, you know, what what are the go tos?

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Speaker 3: What do we have as go tos? Like twenty percent

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Speaker 3: at a restaurant?

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Speaker 4: Twenty percent you know, used to be sort of considered

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Speaker 4: an amount to reward excellent service.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: Fifteen percent maybe used to be the standard, but now

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Speaker 4: it really feels a lot more like twenty percent is

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Speaker 4: the bare minimum. And even when you see those suggested

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Speaker 4: tip amounts at the bottom, it usually starts at twenty

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Speaker 4: percent and goes up to like twenty five and thirty

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Speaker 4: for the max. And that's for like a you know,

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Speaker 4: a dinner bill. But let's say you're drinking at a bar.

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Speaker 4: You know, the more there is not always necessarily based

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Speaker 4: on the entire tab. It might be some people might

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Speaker 4: operate on a dollar per drink tip, you know, which

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Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily equate to twenty percent of the entire tab,

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Speaker 4: and you might just tip every other drink if you're

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Speaker 4: paying cash, you know, and that's probably gonna keep you

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Speaker 4: from getting blackballed or treated like a pariah by you know,

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Speaker 4: the bar staff.

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Speaker 3: And there's also the idea of paying rent for a

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Speaker 3: table or a spot that you hear about. Number. A

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Speaker 3: thing that doesn't happen as often in the United States

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Speaker 3: but is quite common in parts of Europe is that

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Speaker 3: your price per item in a restaurant differs depending on

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Speaker 3: whether you are ordering to sit down and drink or

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Speaker 3: eat versus whether you're ordering to stand around and drinker eat.

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Speaker 3: It is included in that it gets more complicated depending

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Speaker 3: on the situation. I always think whenever we talk about tipping,

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Speaker 3: I always think about Quentin Tarantino's character in Reservoir Dogs.

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Speaker 3: Which who was he?

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Speaker 4: Is it the Steve Bushemi character or is it the.

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Speaker 3: It's the don't tip, don't tip guy.

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Speaker 4: I can't remember which myster it is, but yeah, he

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Speaker 4: goes on old screen about how he just doesn't believe

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Speaker 4: that you know, he should. Ever, he refuses to tip

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Speaker 4: unless he is just wowed and treated like a like

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Speaker 4: a king.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about this in previous listener mail segments.

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Speaker 3: There are all sorts of purported guides to tipping in

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Speaker 3: any number of situations and monopoly of situations especially you

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Speaker 3: know we've said it before. It's always fascinating to read

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Speaker 3: guides to the United States for people from different countries,

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Speaker 3: and they usually name guns. Shelf prices are weird. You

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Speaker 3: gotta know about tipping, Like you who do you not tip?

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Speaker 3: You tip bell hops, you tip uber drivers or lift drivers,

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Speaker 3: you tip to go places, you tip hotel staff, moving,

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Speaker 3: you tip moving companies, et cetera, et cetera. Hairdressers, someone

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Speaker 3: someone lines you up with a nice you know, like

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Speaker 3: a Nike swosh mark in the back of your head,

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Speaker 3: you know, and give them a little extra.

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Speaker 4: But even that is interesting because it depends like are

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Speaker 4: they renting a chair at a salon or are you

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Speaker 4: paying them directly for their services like the they It's

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Speaker 4: such a gray area, and the lack of transparency in

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Speaker 4: all of it, I think is the problem.

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Speaker 3: I think in general, none of us want to be

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Speaker 3: cheap or.

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Speaker 4: Deprive anybody of like what they are owed or any

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Speaker 4: supplement that they need to get a living wage. But

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Speaker 4: if you're getting like a three hundred dollars hair color job,

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Speaker 4: some people might assume that the tip is sort of

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Speaker 4: built into that since it's such a high price. And

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Speaker 4: if it's not, how are you supposed to know? And

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Speaker 4: are you supposed to tip that full twenty percent on

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Speaker 4: such a high ticket item which amounts to like, you know,

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Speaker 4: a sixty or seventy dollars tip. It just gets confusing,

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Speaker 4: you know, And like do you tip for to go

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Speaker 4: food if you're not actually being served at a table?

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you're getting it delivered, of course, you're

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Speaker 4: tipping a driver, But if you just show up and

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Speaker 4: pick up your food, are you supposed to leave a tip.

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Speaker 4: It's just kind of confusing, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: we're all sort of in the same boat as to

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Speaker 4: you know, what situations require, what level of tip, and

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Speaker 4: how do you make sure to walk away not looking

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Speaker 4: like a schmuck.

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Speaker 3: I mean that you're talking about tip out, which is

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Speaker 3: a little bit a little bit of algebra, and we're

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Speaker 3: in basic arithmetic now for people who who live in

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Speaker 3: places like Japan where tipping is not really a thing,

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Speaker 3: or live in parts of the world where you just

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Speaker 3: round up right and leave the change or leave the

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Speaker 3: closest large denomination. The rule about tipping in the US,

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Speaker 3: any actual rule, only happens when an establishment privately imposes it.

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Speaker 3: Like we've we've been to restaurants. Matt Michigan Control and

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Speaker 3: Doc hall Day and I have been to restaurants where

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Speaker 3: you go there and they'll have a little bit of

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Speaker 3: fine print on the on the restaurant face plate where

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Speaker 3: it says something like parties of x or more will

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Speaker 3: have an automatic ratuity of y percentage added to the bill. Right,

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Speaker 3: we've all seen that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a service charge. And there are also

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Speaker 2: establishments that I think we've been to that call themselves

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Speaker 2: tip free establishments, or a tip free restaurant or something

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Speaker 2: like that, where all of that twenty one percent whatever

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Speaker 2: it is, is just added onto the price of food items.

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Speaker 3: Right, and usually usually also presented with some context. We

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Speaker 3: pay our employees a living wage, which is super important

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Speaker 3: to this conversation. I'm glad you said that, Like okay,

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Speaker 3: For a lot of people in the US, tipping is

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Speaker 3: just one of those things, like you said, Nola's social,

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Speaker 3: which means normalize behavior, right, the opposite of a taboo.

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Speaker 3: It is a more a to tip. There are all

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Speaker 3: kinds of references to this culturally in the US. One

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Speaker 3: of the most famous is if you can't afford to tip,

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Speaker 3: you can't afford to go to the restaurants, And a

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Speaker 3: lot of people agree with that. For others, it's an

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Speaker 3: insidious cash grab. It's a way for the ownership class

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Speaker 3: to siphon even more of your hard earned money to

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Speaker 3: support people just like you and accelerate the profit margin

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Speaker 3: of a person who might not even show up to

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Speaker 3: the restaurant they own. And I think most importantly for

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Speaker 3: our purposes because we do exercise empathy here. Tipping is

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Speaker 3: the primary means of income for so many people in

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Speaker 3: the US in particular.

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Speaker 4: That's right, and we're going to get into the history

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Speaker 4: of that and the kind of fraud nature of how

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Speaker 4: we got to where we are now. But at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, I think a big takeaway here

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Speaker 4: from this conversation is just the fact that a more

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Speaker 4: is not a law and it is not something that

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Speaker 4: is guaranteed. So for those people that rely on that

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Speaker 4: for their income, it's always kind of a roll of

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Speaker 4: the dice.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it.

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Speaker 4: You know, people can definitely, you know, have lucrative careers

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Speaker 4: as servers in you know, fancy restaurants, you know, through tips,

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Speaker 4: but it's also kind of not guaranteed, uh, And they

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Speaker 4: doesn't seem like they get the same i don't know protection,

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Speaker 4: you know, as as other types of workers. And I

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Speaker 4: think it's just interesting, yeah, stability. I think it's interesting

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Speaker 4: how this entire sector that is such a what you

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Speaker 4: would consider to be a you know, critical sector of

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Speaker 4: the economy and of society. These would be what you

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Speaker 4: might consider what was the word they use during the

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Speaker 4: pandemic essential workers are not guaranteed. And also like, what

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Speaker 4: about fast food workers? There is no more a to

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Speaker 4: tip fast food workers?

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Speaker 3: What about hairdressers? What about tattoo artists? What about exotic dancers,

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Speaker 3: ride share drivers, de livery services, restaurant workers, what about

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Speaker 3: cooks in the restaurant? What about valets, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: When these folks get tips, We're definitely not buying Faberge eggs.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're not buying yachts over in. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're not even renting yachts. Say these people, we've never

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Speaker 3: been to France. They're keeping the lights on. They might

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Speaker 3: be saving for college, they might be saving for their kids' birthdays.

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Speaker 3: They might be trying not to go bankrupt. If a

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Speaker 3: medical malady occurs, which is different from a moral malady,

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Speaker 3: we'll get to it. These folks definitely need the money,

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Speaker 3: they are definitely working to earn it. And now by

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Speaker 3: this point, oh Matt Paul, every one of us listening

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Speaker 3: tonight has probably already identified our respective stance on this phenomenon.

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Speaker 3: And your opinion is, as we always say, your own. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: a lot of folks are probably wondering why a show

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Speaker 3: about critical thinking, and conspiracies would bother to follow them

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Speaker 3: to their favorite restaurant. Right, that's a good question. Well,

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Speaker 3: we're going to.

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Speaker 4: Tell you exactly why tipping really has a very, very

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Speaker 4: interesting and problematic history.

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Speaker 3: It does not come from where you might think, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it has a sordid origin story, and there is indeed

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Speaker 3: a conspiracy afoot. Well, pause for a word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 3: and then we'll return to what was once called, in

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Speaker 3: a beautiful pun, the land of the fee. Here's where

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Speaker 3: it gets crazy. The history of tipping is bonkers. It

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Speaker 3: should disturb you. It should disturb you, particularly in America,

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Speaker 3: but it's genesis should keep you up at night. Bad

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Speaker 3: bad stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it started back in the time of the Middle

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Speaker 2: Ages in Europe, when there were masters and servants and

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Speaker 2: people who provided all kinds of services and goods to

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Speaker 2: the masters, who were then given pocket change in exchange

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Speaker 2: for all the work that they did.

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Speaker 4: Right's they just a couple of coppers their way, you know, like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: there you are, young, young lad, you know, go buy

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Speaker 4: yourself something nice. There's an inherent condescending quality to it.

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Speaker 3: Have a shouldn't I understand?

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Speaker 5: You have lost most, if not all, of your family

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Speaker 5: to the plague. Thank you again for spit shining the horse,

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Speaker 5: hoofs and shoes. Here's a tuppence.

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Speaker 3: God be with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And in many ways, that same or let's say,

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Speaker 2: the descendant of that custom has become a customer at

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Speaker 2: an establishment, and the server, the worker, the whoever it

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Speaker 2: is who is providing those same services. They are being

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Speaker 2: paid by some employer. But the amount they're being paid

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Speaker 2: and how much they depend on the tuppens or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is that you give them, it hasn't changed that much.

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Speaker 3: Garsong, right, I remember that's the old the old trope

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Speaker 3: calling people garson Garsad means boy, which is why it's

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Speaker 3: super offensive. And we hope you're not doing that, because

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Speaker 3: God knows Americans need better representation. A broad got a

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Speaker 3: reputation earned it well. I think.

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Speaker 4: I think the most important thing here, though, too, is

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Speaker 4: that the history of this is coming from a place

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Speaker 4: of one exercising one's superiority over another and saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: I I deign to bestow upon you this. You know this,

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Speaker 4: this pittance of a you know, an amount of money.

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Speaker 3: The idea being it's it's small for me, it's life

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Speaker 3: changing for you. You're welcome.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: But is it's so interesting the way that relationship is

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Speaker 2: the customer and the server, the person who is in

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Speaker 2: service to you, but ultimately, ah, it's so wow, this

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Speaker 2: is weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uncomfortable, Matt, for sure. I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the United States, though, used to be very

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Speaker 3: anti tipping, and that's something a lot of people don't know.

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Speaker 3: When the colonists hung out at the UH. They did

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Speaker 3: very dumb research on this. As you guys know, the

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Speaker 3: colonists when they were hanging out at the first tavern

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Speaker 3: in the United States, which is in Boston, coles In

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Speaker 3: from Samuel Cole UH. Before the US was a thing,

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Speaker 3: they almost certainly didn't tip. That was crazy European. They

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Speaker 3: were anti European, they were anti monarchists. It just wasn't

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Speaker 3: a thing. You got your you know, like your grog

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Speaker 3: or your oysters or whatever, and then you shut up.

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Speaker 3: The US had something like tipping as the well to

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Speaker 3: do started to put the American Revolution behind them and

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Speaker 3: they would travel to the continent capital c to Europe

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Speaker 3: and they would see this this old class system in action.

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Speaker 3: As restaurants were becoming more accessible even to the nivou

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Speaker 3: reche of the US, and they would come back these

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Speaker 3: very well to do Americans and they would say, well, link,

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of like the you know, the Dutch or

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Speaker 3: the duchess of insert failed aristocracy here. So here you go,

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Speaker 3: here's a tip for you. It didn't become a real

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Speaker 3: thing until after the US Civil War. And here we

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Speaker 3: got to shout out some excellent work by some excellent

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Speaker 3: authors and journalists, one of them being Nina Martris. Nina

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Speaker 3: Martris walks through how tipping when it first got over

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Speaker 3: to the US was considered deeply, deeply un American to

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Speaker 3: the new Republic.

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Speaker 2: And here's a quote. Until the Civil War in America,

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Speaker 2: there was no tipping. It was a European thing. But

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Speaker 2: the Americans began to travel to Europe and brought this

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Speaker 2: custom back. At the same time, immigrants were coming to

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Speaker 2: America by the boatload from Europe, most of them poor

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Speaker 2: and had been working in Europe and were used to

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Speaker 2: the tipping system. So in every way it was seen

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Speaker 2: as a European import, and there was huge opposition to

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Speaker 2: it because of its feudal nature.

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Speaker 4: Feudal nature again is kind of a history of this

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Speaker 4: condescension this idea that if you're tipping somebody, you are

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Speaker 4: rendering them, or you are identifying them as your underling,

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Speaker 4: you know, someone that's inferior to you. The article goes

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Speaker 4: on referring to identifying your class. You know, your social

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Speaker 4: and economic inferior is what you're identifying those you are

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Speaker 4: tipping as. So it was a cast bound system, and

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Speaker 4: it was an old world custom, and it waked of feudalism.

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Speaker 3: Like you said, Matt, it.

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Speaker 4: Was called servile and it was called a bribe. It

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Speaker 4: was called a moral malady. It was called blackmail, it

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Speaker 4: was called flunkyism. And people rallied against it until they

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Speaker 4: found a reason to have it benefit them.

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Speaker 3: Until that is the wake of the Civil War. Emancipation

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Speaker 3: happens all in paper, right, And it doesn't really happen, but

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Speaker 3: it happens on paper. And suddenly the US is chock

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Speaker 3: full of millions of formerly enslaves to people every imaginable

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Speaker 3: demographic of age or gender. And these folks found themselves

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Speaker 3: theoretically free. But they had had no access to education.

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Speaker 3: People had been murdered for the crime of literacy until

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Speaker 3: quite quite recently, right. And they also had no jobs,

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Speaker 3: no nepotism, no career prospects, no land, no generational wealth.

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Speaker 3: The odds were very much by design against these people.

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Speaker 3: And around this time restauranteurs begin hiring these folks as workers,

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Speaker 3: overwhelmingly hiring black women as workers, and said, hey, we

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Speaker 3: don't have to pay these people at all. Instead, we

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Speaker 3: can do what our European folks told us about earlier.

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Speaker 3: We can give We can put upon them the strange

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Speaker 3: commission pctice of tips, and your wages as they are,

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Speaker 3: will entirely be the nobel the noble largesse right of

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Speaker 3: like the largesse of the customer. Again to Matt's point,

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Speaker 3: like putting the customer as the lord and instituting this

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Speaker 3: microcosmic feudal system every time someone pays for food. And

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Speaker 3: it's worse than the rail stations or the railroad industry

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I can't help but think of this as

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Speaker 4: like another loophole of getting around the abolition of slavery

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Speaker 4: in the same way that prison labor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no question about it.

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Speaker 4: Like, Okay, well, now we have this new workforce quote unquote,

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Speaker 4: we're used to not paying them because they were literally,

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Speaker 4: you know, slaves before. So now what can we do

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Speaker 4: to kind of pay them as little as possible and

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Speaker 4: pass on whatever small amount they do get paid to

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Speaker 4: somebody else. And yeah, your point about the rail system,

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Speaker 4: Ben is interesting because it also points out this sort

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Speaker 4: of sort of new middle class like folks that couldn't,

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Speaker 4: like you said, the folks that maybe went to Europe,

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Speaker 4: and they could afford to go to Europe, but they

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Speaker 4: did not possess the same wealth as those dukes and duchesses.

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Speaker 4: So they were sort of like living above their means

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Speaker 4: or sort of playing in this space, but they didn't

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Speaker 4: actually occupy it in the same way as George Pullman,

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Speaker 4: who's the creator of the Pullman car Company, created this

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Speaker 4: genius idea of these first class train carriages that were

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Speaker 4: complete with servants, you know, that were called porters that

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Speaker 4: you know, I think we all know the trope of

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Speaker 4: the porter. Someone that you know me greets you with

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Speaker 4: a smile, handles your baggage, you know, makes your bed,

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Speaker 4: tells you your kid's a little joke or whatever, and

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Speaker 4: answers when you when you call. Not something that these

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Speaker 4: people could afford to have on staff, but they could

432
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 4: live in that world for a brief time.

433
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, so let's I'm glad you've ventred George Pullman.

434
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: George Pullman creates the Pullman Car Company, which later, against

435
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: his against his wishes, I imagine, leads to the formation

436
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 3: of the first black labor union in these United States.

437
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: This is the late eighteen hundreds, post Civil War era,

438
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: and he designs what you can think of as a

439
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 3: first class train carriage. Before Pullman cars, trains were super

440
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 3: duper uncomfortable unless you were the guy, unless you were

441
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 3: the monopoly man who owned the train system and had

442
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 3: your own custom built car, the equivalent the eighteen hundreds

443
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: equivalent of a private jet. He said, look, we got

444
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 3: this middle class coming up. They can't travel like the

445
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: decayed aristocracy of Europe. They probably cannot afford to have

446
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 3: a household staff or a servant at home. But we

447
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: can weaponize the aspiration. We can give them that experience

448
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: for the time it takes them to go from one

449
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: city to the next. You know, we'll have these will

450
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: have these porters, and they will be your personal assistant

451
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 3: during your time on a Pullman car. You can live

452
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 3: that fake life by train. And the US has always been,

453
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 3: if nothing else, a horrifically aspirational endeavor, right, Like, that's

454
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: why Vegas exists.

455
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: And so that's why they call it the American dream,

456
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 4: not the American reality. It's all incredibly aspirational and based

457
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: on images that we are sort of sold in this

458
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 4: idea that.

459
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: We deserve this.

460
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: You know, we belong here in this class. We deserve

461
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 4: to have all of these nice things.

462
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 3: But you know, as as I always like to point out,

463
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 3: it's the pursuit of happiness. And Matt, you and I

464
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: have been telling you about that for many years. Pullman

465
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: super racist when he hires these porters. This is well

466
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 3: before there were federal protections about discriminating on race, religion, ethnicity,

467
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: and so on. And it's an unpleasant thing to say.

468
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: None of us are happy to report this, but these

469
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: are the facts. Pullman only hired black men as porters.

470
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: George Pullman only hired black men, and specifically black men

471
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: from the American South because he believed, and he's on

472
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: record saying this, he believed that during the age, during

473
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: the era of slavery, plantations and the brutal system of

474
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: chattel slavery had quote trained these men to be more pleasing,

475
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: more obsequious, to customers. Now, he did pay him a wage.

476
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: He paid them twenty seven dollars and fifty cents a month.

477
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 3: Even back then, that was not a living wage. It's

478
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: like it's kind of tough to get by goodbye in

479
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 3: America with thirty bucks every twenty four hours today, right.

480
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, But the practice of tipping was not established here.

481
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: It was popularized here on these pullman cars for these

482
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: specific people were working as porters.

483
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I mean, let's not forget that, like the

484
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 4: indoctrination that came along with slavery didn't just disappear overnight.

485
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: And these are individuals that.

486
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: Need work, and he is literally capitalizing on the trauma,

487
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 4: the emotional manipulation that they've experienced, you know, through the

488
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 4: brutal practice of slavery, and kind of putting them on

489
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 4: display as almost like you know, it's just gross, Like

490
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 4: you said, Ben, I mean it's.

491
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: That, yeah, I mean the rest of the income over

492
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: that twenty seven fifty And by the way, the pullman

493
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: porters formed a union because they were regularly and often

494
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: robbed of the wage they were guaranteed for their labor.

495
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: So the rest of their income is supposed to be

496
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: made in tips and as Matris puts it, that became

497
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: the place where tipping, to your point, Matt really began

498
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: to spread. Because think about it, think about the geography.

499
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: Train cars are going right, the rail is going everywhere.

500
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: Tipping is becoming a thing. Oh, the family and I

501
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: took a trip. Hint, of course, we lived like the Europeans.

502
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: We gave a tip to our porta. You know, I

503
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: don't know why. It made them sound villainous and not

504
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: from the US, but there we have it. This did

505
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: not make tipping automatically popular, but I posit a posit

506
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: that this is the patient zero of the practice. It

507
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: preyed on the desperation of the have nots, while at

508
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: the same time it preyed on the aspirations of what

509
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: I would call the have a liittles, the emergent middle class.

510
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 4: Isn't it interesting though, how like, you know, America is

511
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 4: you know, formed from being emancipated from you know, the

512
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,959
Speaker 4: overlords that were you know, the British, the Europeans, and

513
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 4: then all of a sudden Americans want to become just

514
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: like their former you know, overlords.

515
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: Maybe it makes sense. I don't know, it's weird.

516
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 4: It just seems like, really counter to the idea of

517
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 4: liberation and the idea of you know, separating oneself from

518
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 4: you know, being under the yoke of an oppressive force.

519
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden you become that oppressive force

520
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 4: to others. It's just very counterintuitive, I guess, but maybe

521
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: it also makes perfect sense when you consider human nature

522
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: and the nature of people wanting to control others.

523
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: Well, it also is establishing something really important to this

524
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: American dream we're talking about. Guys, if you were a

525
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: really really good porter and you were incredible at what

526
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: you did and you said right things, it was possible

527
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: for you to make more money than the other porters

528
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: around you, right, And it it preys on the competitive

529
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: nature of those things, but also in the enterprising nature

530
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: of all humans.

531
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: Right.

532
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: Oh, I can figure out this system, and if I

533
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: am the best at it I could, I might actually

534
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: make a good amount of money here.

535
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: And I have regulars who only only request me when

536
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 3: they are riding out to Boston and so on. Yeah,

537
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 3: you've nailed it, Matt. And it's it's strange because people,

538
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: I feel like we always need to point this out.

539
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: We're talking about history, people were just as intelligent. It

540
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 3: sounds like a broken record. It's a broken record because

541
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: it's true. People were just as intelligent then as they

542
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 3: are now. They just had a differing access to information.

543
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: So it should come as no surprise and beat me here, Paul.

544
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: A ton of people automatically knew this concept of tipping

545
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: was a problematic idea. Opponents not just the well to do.

546
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: We'll get to them, but opponents felt like it was

547
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: a shakedown. They were saying, wow, are we paying for

548
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 3: everything twice? You know I paid for my train tack.

549
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: I gotta pay this guy. I already pay for my

550
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: train ticket. I gotta give you money for two sandwiches

551
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:30,959
Speaker 3: when I buy one sandwich. Fun fact. William Taft, who

552
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 3: is also famous for being president in nineteen oh eight,

553
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: A really big thing for his pr campaign was that

554
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: he didn't tip the guy who cut his hair, and

555
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 3: later historians would go on a contemporary journalist of his time,

556
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 3: and later historians would go on to describe him as

557
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 3: a kind of folk patrons ain't of the anti tipping crusade.

558
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: Crusade's a crap term. But there was definitely a concentrated,

559
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 3: widespread movement against tipping. People were like, that's the thing

560
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: you need to know, folks, tipping is one hundred rooted

561
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: in racism in the United States. It was essentially a

562
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 3: very lazy social mad lib. Take out the word peasant,

563
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: take out the word lord, put in the word black,

564
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 3: put in the word white, and a lot of people

565
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: were against this. We mentioned taff, we mentioned journalism. I mean,

566
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: there are great quotes we can pull from all kinds

567
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 3: of books about this, oh for sure.

568
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 4: And just really quickly, I just wanted to mention I

569
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 4: was trying to figure out what the etymology of tip was,

570
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 4: and even that has a lot of questionable results. There's

571
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 4: a few sources that say it was actually an acronym

572
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 4: that stood for two ensure. Promptitude says that's untrue. Yeah,

573
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 4: but it does appear in a handful of places. But

574
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 4: it also, you know, tip would also maybe refer to

575
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 4: us a small bit of useful information or maybe even

576
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 4: secret information. So maybe it sprung from that the idea

577
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 4: of giving someone a hot tip. You know, it's something

578
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 4: that they could take to the bank, you know, whether

579
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,959
Speaker 4: it be a on a horse or whatever, some piece

580
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 4: of information.

581
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 3: But it's a little unclear as to.

582
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: Where exactly tipping came from in its versions.

583
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, tip is a helpful hint comes after tipping as

584
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 3: practice because again to bat the point, it's like it's

585
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 3: rooted in that better than thou concept. It's like, you

586
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 3: need the financial help, so I will tell you, I

587
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 3: will I will give you the insider trading here totally.

588
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 4: But it's still a little vague as to where tipping

589
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: as a as a word comes from specifically. I'm sure

590
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: it's just sprung from other, you know, other maybe Old

591
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: English or.

592
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 3: Something like that.

593
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 4: But in any case, you referenced some really good quotes

594
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: from some books. Carrie Seagraves wrote a book called Tipping,

595
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 4: An American Social History of Gratuities and some other folks

596
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 4: and mentions in this book some other anti tipping folks

597
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 4: who all happened to be millionaires. You got your John

598
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 4: d Rockefellers and Andrew Carnegie, who you know. We know

599
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 4: about these guys from their history. They didn't get rich

600
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 4: by being generous. They got rich by holding it tight

601
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 4: in their in their fists. And even Ralph Waldo Emerson

602
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 4: who had a really great, great quote, well great, relatively speaking,

603
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 4: illustrative quote.

604
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: Let's say, Ben, you're gonna give us an Emerson know.

605
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 3: What he sounds like with a name like that, though,

606
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 3: he has to sound fancy. Oh you guys, do you

607
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: guys know Emerson?

608
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: I know a bit of his He's a he's a

609
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: Lake and Palmer.

610
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,959
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, okay, nailed it. Yeah.

611
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 5: Uh.

612
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 3: My favorite Emmersy quote is is transparent eyeball thing, which

613
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 3: is like he's like, I became a transparentable observing everything.

614
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: He was naturalist. He wrote a I think like his

615
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: real banger is nature, which is a cool essay. It's

616
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 3: about it's long. It's a long essay. But he's a transcendentalist,

617
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: they call him anyway. His other quote is to the

618
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 3: point we're making here, His quote is I sometimes succumb

619
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 3: and give the dollar, yet it is a wicked dollar, which,

620
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 3: by and bye, I shall have the manhood to withhold.

621
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 3: So he's saying he feels like a because he tipped.

622
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he feels like morally fraught, he feels like emasculated.

623
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 3: Yeah worse. No, No, he's saying he feels like he

624
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: participated in an evil system by tipping.

625
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 4: Well, I mean we're gonna get there, We'll get to

626
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 4: the modern era. That's not necessarily that far off from

627
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 4: some people's beef with the whole system. You know that

628
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: we've landed on. But let's let's hold on that for

629
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 4: a minute. And this does lead perfectly to talking about

630
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 4: the idea of tipping abolitionist campaigns.

631
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: So there's a whole bunch of people that don't like

632
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: this tipping thing. And in nineteen fifteen it really came

633
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: to a head, this fight against tips when there were

634
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: three states Iowa, South Carolina, and Tennessee who all passed

635
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: anti tipping laws. That's pretty much she.

636
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 3: Hated black people.

637
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, there were three others Washington, Mississippi, and Arkansas

638
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: who already had bills of the same kind. And guess

639
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: what Georgia was next.

640
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 4: But then by nineteen twenty six, these anti tipping laws

641
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 4: were repealed because it had already the genie was sort

642
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 4: of already out of the bottle, Like I mean, this

643
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: practice had gained so much steam and sort of become

644
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: codified and really spread.

645
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there was a there was this huge movement,

646
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 3: like we're talking about this tipping abolitionist movement to be

647
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 3: confused with the abolition of slavery. One of the big

648
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 3: pieces here, one of the seminal pieces, is a sort

649
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: of I guess you could call it a monograph, a

650
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 3: very long, angry letter by a guy named William R. Scott.

651
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 3: It's called the Itching Palm, A study of the habit

652
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 3: of tipping in America. And this rocks people. People always

653
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: want to save money, right, including restaurant owners, which we'll

654
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 3: get to. And this this thing essentially says the millions

655
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: of Americans who get their money from tips are suffering

656
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: from a moral malady, a phrase we referenced earlier, and

657
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: that that that's a top down condemnation on these people

658
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 3: who are trying to survive. In just three years later,

659
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: there's a trade journal called The Mixer and Server. It's

660
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: for restaurant and hotel employees. There's a guy named Teo

661
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: Smith who says, you can't accuse waiters of having a

662
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: quote itching palm. The truth is the waiter did not

663
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: create the system. They are the victim of the system.

664
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: And I agree with that wholeheartedly.

665
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, let's think back to the porter

666
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 4: system and the whole establishing of like how can I

667
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 4: pay these folks as little as humanly possible? Like I

668
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 4: think we said it was twenty seven bucks a month.

669
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 4: It's by depending on this system of tips, so it

670
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 4: inherently benefits the business owner and not the employees.

671
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 3: And the entire time we're talking about this, we're not

672
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 3: quite talking about restaurants, which is where I think the

673
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: majority of Americans lay. And when we're discussing tips, to

674
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: steal a line from the great short story author Raymond Carver, restaurants,

675
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: that's what we talk about when we talk about tips.

676
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 3: What do you say, guys, do we go right to

677
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: restaurants or do we take a break?

678
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do that. Let's take a quick break and

679
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: return with more tips about tipping.

680
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 3: And we have returned. So eventually tipping becomes closely associated

681
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: with restaurants, as it does in the modern day. Before

682
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 3: we do that, though, what are weird? I know everybody

683
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: wants to all of us listening today probably want to

684
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: hear this. What's the weirdest situation you run into with tipping? Like,

685
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 3: what's the weirdest time you were expected to give a tip?

686
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 4: I definitely I got a massage one time and I

687
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 4: thought that I was tipping appropriately. I think I have

688
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 4: like twenty five percent, and then the person like legitimately

689
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 4: guilt tripped me into leaving a good bit more than that, Like,

690
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 4: I felt very cornered. So that wasn't cool. And I

691
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 4: thought I was doing right. But again, and sometimes I

692
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: think for different services, different things are expected and it's

693
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 4: just not very clear. And I thought I was doing

694
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 4: right by this person. I was not trying to be

695
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 4: cheap in any way, shape or form, but you know,

696
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 4: I was kind of called out, so that was super awkward.

697
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 4: I've heard stories of servers riving to run after customers,

698
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 4: you know, like chase them out the door and say

699
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 4: what gives you know, that'd be awkward as hellf on

700
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: both on both ends.

701
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: Ben, what's your weirdest tipping story?

702
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 3: Oh, they will get to I guess, to be completely honest,

703
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: maybe the weirdest tipping story I have. I was in

704
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 3: a different place, not the US, and UH, I was

705
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: kind of situation where we had a fixer and I

706
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 3: had a fixer, we had an agreed upon rate and

707
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: were hanging out and the person that I was with, UH,

708
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 3: they didn't ask for a tip, but they got involved

709
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 3: with someone else and they did something untoward and it

710
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 3: required I don't even know if you could call it

711
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 3: a tip. It required maybe what you could call them

712
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: make good which sounds so unhelpfully vague, But that's as

713
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 3: far as I could go with it.

714
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: This story was as vague as you could get. Man,

715
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: that was good.

716
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: I like it. No, it's true. It's true to UH.

717
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 3: It's a story to protect the UH protect the folks evolved.

718
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 3: But it was basically we essentially what we had to

719
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 3: do was not we weren't tipping in just cash. We

720
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 3: were also tipped in food and a ride. Very strange situation,

721
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: not your typical Applebee's, not an Applebee's at all. But

722
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: let's get to restaurants, all right. We got minimum wage

723
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 3: in the US, right, and people go back and forth

724
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 3: on that. Some people hate the idea of the federal

725
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 3: government dictating a minimum wage. In nineteen forty two, the

726
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: Supreme Court made this ruling that said, if you're an

727
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 3: employee of a place, you have an exclusive right to

728
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 3: the tips that are given to you. The owners of

729
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 3: the establishment cannot take that money that is given specifically

730
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,959
Speaker 3: to you, and they cannot force you to do what's

731
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 3: called tipping out to share your your tips with the

732
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 3: rest of the staff. And even before that, sorry, I

733
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: am losing my timeline here. In nineteen thirty eight, it

734
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 3: was the New Deal that instituted the first federal minimum

735
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 3: wage law. Minimum wage in nineteen thirty eight was set

736
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 3: at twenty five cents an hour.

737
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: Sick.

738
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 3: It's sick for thirty eight, I mean, it's definitely. I

739
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: think it's also very I think it's incredibly ethical and

740
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: moral that they always called it the minimum wage. There's

741
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 3: a very different universe where the US has like a

742
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 3: maximum wage, which is never going to happen. That's not

743
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: the dream. To Knowle's point, who's not included in that

744
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: New Deal legislation in that nineteen thirty Who doesn't get

745
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 3: the minimum wage in thirty eight? People that rely on tips?

746
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: I guess restaurants or workers of restaurants.

747
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, restaurant employees don't get included in federal minimum wage.

748
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: Restaurant owners are yet restaurant owners to your ployt are

749
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: also not not included in this. They, unlike many other industries,

750
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 3: don't have to pay that federally mandated twenty five cents

751
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 3: an hour. This in practice, codified the idea that you're

752
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 3: only paying your workers through tips, which means that you're

753
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 3: not really paying your workers, right. It means that the

754
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: customers are paying for the labor of the people that

755
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 3: you were quote unquote employee.

756
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 4: I mean, and this evolved, of course, I'm a little

757
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 4: foggy on maybe how it started, because it did ultimately

758
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 4: get to where this just affected quote unquote tipped employees,

759
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 4: you know, as opposed to a blanket, you know kind

760
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 4: of rules surrounding restaurant workers. So I'm imagining initially, Ben,

761
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 4: this would have included everybody from dishwashers to you know,

762
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 4: kitchen staff to whomever, not just people that were serving customers.

763
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nuts, like the we know, we know it's tricky,

764
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 3: and I love that you bring up the phrase tipped workers. Right,

765
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 3: So fast forward nineteen sixty six, Congress creates this thing

766
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: called tip credit. A lot of us who work in

767
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: the service industry are going to be aware of this one.

768
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: What is tip credit? What is it? What does it do?

769
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's basically just essentially theoretically brings up

770
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 4: that you know, tipped wage, that tipped hourly wage. It

771
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 4: supplements it officially through you know, the amount of tips

772
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 4: that these individuals make. And I believe that there is

773
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 4: a regulation in place that if at the end of

774
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 4: the year the person has not made what would amount

775
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 4: to that federal minimum wage, then the employers are supposed

776
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 4: to supplement it out of their own pocket. But there

777
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 4: are also ways around that of course, so you know,

778
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 4: it's essentially bringing up, you know, their wage to match

779
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 4: whatever the federal minimum wage is.

780
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 3: But again only on paper in theory, how often how

781
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 3: often do we think, how many times out of ten

782
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: do we think a person who probably doesn't have the

783
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 3: capital to push a case through court can fight that? Oh?

784
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 4: Never, I mean unless there's some you know, guardian angel,

785
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 4: pro bono lawyer that's you know, working for social justice

786
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 4: that takes up their cause, or some sort of you know,

787
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 4: class action suit. But now an individual it's never going

788
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 4: to happen. Not only can not afford it, they can't

789
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 4: afford to take the time off of work to even

790
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 4: deal with it. If they're fighting for a livable wage,

791
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 4: then they're struggling and they're definitely not going to be

792
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 4: able to take on city hall in that way.

793
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 3: It becomes more complicated to The federal minimum wage for

794
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: what is called a tipt employee is right now two

795
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 3: dollars and thirteen cents per hour. Other states, like individual

796
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 3: states in the Union have taken steps to heighten that,

797
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: but not the ceiling. The opposite of the ceiling, the

798
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 3: floor is two thirteen. Assuming tips and conveniently ignoring things

799
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 3: like tip out, things like workers rights and so on.

800
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 3: I mean, like, here's the other thing, full disclosure. When

801
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: Matt Nol and I go to restaurants, we tip, and

802
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 3: many waiters, many servers, professionals at high end establishments, they

803
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 3: often seem to prefer tipping, or at least there are

804
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 3: many who do seem to prefer tipping because at a

805
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 3: high end establishment, that can translate to a higher monthly income.

806
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 3: You know, like, we know no shortage of people who

807
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 3: became managers at some sort of establishment and made less

808
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 3: money than they did as a bartender. You know, what

809
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 3: about the folks who are working at diners, regular restaurants,

810
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 3: fast food to your earlier point, noel, dive bars. What

811
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 3: happens to them? Like? How how does this translate to

812
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 3: the American dream? And obviously, yes, some restaurants in the

813
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 3: US don't accept tips. They are usually higher end.

814
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some restaurants have attempted to get rid of

815
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 2: tips completely. It's been tried many times, often unsuccessfully, but

816
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 2: some places just decided to do it anyway, no matter

817
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: you know, what the economic costs are to their restaurant

818
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: or you know, to their weight staff. And we've got

819
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: a really good example here.

820
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, as a restaurant in Berkeley, California called Shay Panice,

821
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 4: a celebrity chef Alice Waters Joint, and they have just

822
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 4: a kind of one line item fixed service charge for

823
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 4: every you know, customer that gets divvied up amongst the

824
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 4: whole staff, which includes the kitchen, the wait staff, the cooks,

825
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 4: the bus staff, dishwashers, all of that. It's essentially just

826
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 4: a more codified kind of form of.

827
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 3: Like a pool tip pool kind of situation.

828
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 4: And interestingly enough to California is one state that doesn't

829
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 4: use the two thirteen an hour figure. They pay minimum

830
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 4: wage at minimum in addition to tips, so you know,

831
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 4: but also California's got one of the highest costs of

832
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,919
Speaker 4: living anywhere in the United States. And it's also pointing

833
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: to point out that to thirteen an hour that we're

834
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 4: talking about that doesn't get adjusted for inflation, that doesn't

835
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: get adjusted for cost of living increases. It's just static

836
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 4: unless a state takes it upon itself to do.

837
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 3: Something about it. Like California has. Yeah, and none of

838
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 3: that's going to fix the ticking time bomb of the

839
00:52:54,840 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 3: San Andreas fault. Different story, So Segrave, the author we

840
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier. Not it's a cool irony. I really like

841
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 3: tippyed has faded away in many parts of Europe because

842
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 3: they said, why don't we just add a service charge?

843
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 3: Customers aren't obliged to tip. Why don't we pay the

844
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 3: people who live in our country a wage that allows

845
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 3: them to live in our country? Beautiful idea. The local

846
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 3: government of a place outside Atlanta called the city of

847
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 3: Decatur could also take that under advisement, you know what

848
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 3: I mean. But there's a conspiracy here. It's pretty self evident.

849
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: The grift is this, restaurants can essentially pass part of

850
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 3: their cost directly onto the consumer in a way that

851
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 3: inherently victim blames, a way that blames the worker for

852
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 3: circumstances quite often beyond their control. They've weaponized those social mores,

853
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 3: They've weaponized peer pressure to a sploit a financial cheat code.

854
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: Now arguably, look, there are a ton of restaurant owners

855
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: out there, some listening today who would prefer not to

856
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: use the tipping phenomenon. But as we know restaurants are

857
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 3: an intense, cutthroat business, and a place with higher than

858
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 3: average prices is going to have a tough time making

859
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 3: it through the year. You know, we we have to.

860
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 3: I'm just saying we have to be careful not to

861
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 3: paint this group as a monolith, a cabal of fat cats.

862
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 3: That it couldn't be more untrue. It couldn't be further

863
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 3: from the truth. They like their employees and their customers.

864
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: They're laboring under the yoke of this intergenerational conspiracy, this

865
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 3: system that incentivizes often in practice requires participation, even when

866
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 3: the overall effects we know can damage society in the

867
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 3: long term.

868
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean especially when it comes to smaller, you know,

869
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 4: locally owned businesses, you know, where the margins can be

870
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 4: very slight and like you said, the competition very stiff.

871
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: Well, what about at a huge, I don't know, upscale

872
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: burger joint, I don't know what do you call it?

873
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 2: What is that called fast casual burger restaurantachable fine dining?

874
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 2: Well take shake Shack for instance, Like that's a pretty

875
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: nice little burger restaurant. It's a huge chain. And this

876
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: guy Danny Meyer, who's the CEO of Union Square Hospitality,

877
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: who you know owns shake Shack, also places like Grammercy

878
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: Tavern and the modern like more upscale restaurants. Back in

879
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, he wanted to do exactly what we're talking

880
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 2: about here, get rid of the tips thing and instead

881
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: of making the customer pay more, you know, out of

882
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: this weird kind of obligation to tip a server, just

883
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: pay more for the food that you're gonna buy for

884
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,760
Speaker 2: coming in, and don't do it as a service charge.

885
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 2: Just work those tips basically into the food. So increase

886
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: your food prices by twenty one percent. I've got a

887
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 2: quote from him from all things considered in twenty fifteen quote,

888
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: the average American restaurant goer leaves the exact same tip

889
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: irrespective of the service they receive. And unfortunately, none of

890
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 2: those tips that you leave in a restaurant may may

891
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: be shared with the full team, i e. The cooks,

892
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: the dishwashers, prep cokes, butchers, etc. So by incorporating everything

893
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 2: in the menu prices and therefore having it be the

894
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 2: restaurant's responsibility to pay everybody a fair wage, we think

895
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 2: we have the opportunity to make a great place to

896
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: work for everybody, not just servers, but also for our cooks.

897
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 2: And this is a response because it is commendable, and

898
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 2: it's a response because some of his servers were making

899
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: so much money, but his cooks in the back didn't

900
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 2: get to see any of that money, or even if

901
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 2: they were tip pulling, they would get to see a

902
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: percentage of that money. Right, So tried to put this

903
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 2: into all of his restaurants and he did a bunch

904
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 2: of other restaurant tours followed suit in twenty fifteen and

905
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. There was even a logo, guys of one

906
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 2: of these what do you call open source logos for

907
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: a non tipping establishment that was generated and it looks awesome.

908
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: It was gratuity free establishment and it has a little

909
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: logo on it with an X and an O.

910
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 3: Always use the word free if you want support for

911
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 3: a cause in the US.

912
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah sure. And that was another guy named

913
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: Andrew Tarlow, another restaurant tour, a person who you know

914
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: has at like an empire, basically trying to make this

915
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: thing happen. But guess what, it only lasted about two years,

916
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 2: a little less than two years, because all of those

917
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 2: establishments realized oh, people don't like this. And it goes

918
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 2: back to the psychology thing we talked about before. You

919
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 2: look at a menu and you know, you see a

920
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: bunch of thirty dollars menu items instead of twenty dollars

921
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 2: menu items, or twenty dollars menu itemstead of ten dollars

922
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 2: menu items, and your brain just goes, oh it, this

923
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: chicken is really overpriced. I don't think we're going to

924
00:57:58,840 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 2: come here again.

925
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 4: It's really interesting, man, because you know, we've been talking

926
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 4: about how old this tradition is, and we have gotten

927
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 4: to a point where we just kind of expect it,

928
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 4: and we'll get into some of the kind of like

929
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 4: ramping up of this whole thing that's happened and gotten

930
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 4: us to where we are now. But you know, it

931
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 4: is that illusion where if you see the lower price

932
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 4: on the menu and you feel like it's up to

933
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 4: you to add that little extra on top instead of

934
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 4: it being mandatory, you're feeling like you're getting a better deal.

935
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 4: But then if they roll it all in there and

936
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 4: then all of a sudden, your burger's like, you know,

937
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 4: five dollars more, some people might bulk at that. And

938
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 4: also I'm sure that the weight staff didn't care for

939
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 4: this in particular because it removes that level of a competition.

940
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 3: It removes that level of like.

941
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 4: Well, if I'm being the best, why should this other

942
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 4: person who's not as good as me get what I'm getting?

943
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 4: And I do think it's unfair for if you ever

944
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 4: worked in a kitchen, I mean, those people bust their

945
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,439
Speaker 4: ass and to actually get that food out to make

946
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 4: it where the server is being efficient and delivering their

947
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 4: food and it looks good, it's out on time. That's

948
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 4: just as worthy of tips as the public facing part.

949
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 3: It is a brutal job to work in a kitchen.

950
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 4: And again they're getting paid more than that two fifteen

951
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 4: an hour, but not a crazy amount more. I mean,

952
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 4: it depends on the restaurant I suppose, and where you

953
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 4: are on the hierarchy. But it's complicated, and it's complicated

954
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 4: because of this really fraught history. It was all established

955
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 4: for really messed up reasons, and now we're kind of

956
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: stuck with it.

957
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 3: It feels like, I don't know.

958
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: It goes back to what Ben said earlier about moving

959
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,439
Speaker 2: up to being a manager from a server and how

960
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: in order to make that move you would have to

961
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 2: take a twenty five percent wage cut overall to become

962
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: a manager, because the server, if they're very good, can

963
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: make bank at a a more expensive restaurant.

964
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 3: I want to point out, by the way, if you

965
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 3: really want to make money off tips, become a politician.

966
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 3: In the United States, I said it, it's a problem.

967
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 3: Read our book. Lobbying is bribery, whatever, think about it.

968
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: Like in Europe, the tipping question became a question for

969
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 3: economic experts, people in the dismal science, divorced from ideology,

970
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 3: hopefully if they're doing the jobs right. In the US,

971
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 3: this is a question that is tackled by politicians, powerful lobbies,

972
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 3: and their masters. Like, let's get to the modern day, right, Okay,

973
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 3: what can or should be done? When we look at

974
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 3: the stats, we see the foundations buried, not very deeply

975
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 3: of the original conspiracy. Twenty twenty one, forty one percent

976
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 3: of tipped workers were people of color. Still, twenty twenty one,

977
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 3: two thirds of tipped workers are women, women identifying individuals.

978
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 3: Excuse me, thirty seven of those sixty six percent of

979
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 3: people are also mothers. They have children depending on them,

980
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 3: and they in turn are depending on these tips. Look,

981
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 3: during the pandemic, things were going nuts. American Diet noted

982
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 3: something that started to be called tip flation or tip

983
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 3: creep right and began experiencing was called tip fatigue. You

984
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 3: would go to a humble takeout joint, you would use

985
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 3: that touch screen that you mentioned earlier, Nola, and all

986
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 3: of a sudden, you would see a field that said

987
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 3: suggested tip fifteen or eighteen or twenty or even twenty

988
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 3: five or thirty percent. The easiest response in that social situation,

989
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 3: when you are being observed is to agree, is to

990
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 3: just hit the button, you know, do your little diddly boop,

991
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 3: your little John Hancock, and then you're off on your

992
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 3: merry way with your you know your what's the weird thing?

993
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 3: You buy it? A touchscreen with your duncan dunkin coffee.

994
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 3: That's the popular one, is that the one. Okay, really

995
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 3: like candied coffee, and.

996
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 2: Look careful, spot.

997
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 3: Well, some people love candied coffee. Not everybody's a dirt

998
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,919
Speaker 3: bag like me. But we are being really us centric here.

999
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 3: We want to make sure we acknowledge tipping bribes stuff

1000
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 3: like that exist in some form or another in many

1001
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 3: many other places. I would argue tipping is not bribery honestly,

1002
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 3: because again these people are working for this and they

1003
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 3: are busting their ass. And if you've ever worked in

1004
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 3: the service industry, you know very well that your job

1005
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 3: is probably more difficult than the job of the people

1006
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 3: who are coming to your establishment. Like in countries with

1007
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: local corruption is so nuts. Man, you go to a

1008
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 3: government institution, you're expected to pay a bribe. Imagine going

1009
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 3: to the DMV or the DDS and they're like, we

1010
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 3: could give you a license plate, you know, we could.

1011
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,439
Speaker 2: What about this Hamilton.

1012
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 3: Right right? Right? What about this DMB power card? H

1013
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 3: If you live in the US, you've seen this tip

1014
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 3: creep firsthand, right, maybe even earlier today, we talked about

1015
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 3: it at the front. Here's why it's happening. It's super

1016
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 3: easy on those touchscreen points of service or pos It's

1017
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 3: super easy to flip out or off a switch that

1018
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 3: turns that field on. And quite often the money from

1019
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 3: those tips it's not going to the person who major coffee,

1020
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 3: it isn't. It's going to the owner of the franchise.

1021
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 3: Right in. This means that, of course you're gonna feel

1022
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 3: like you want to help people. You're also going to

1023
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 3: feel like someone is taking money because you might be

1024
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 3: a victim of this, of this system.

1025
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: But well, Ben, there are many restauranteurs like Danni Meyer,

1026
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 2: like a lot of the people that attempt to do

1027
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 2: this before that. If you, if you are in the

1028
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 2: system where you're making that tip and it's going to

1029
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 2: the company, right, the restaurant itself, many of them are

1030
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 2: attempting to redistribute those tips in a you know, in

1031
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: a way that does benefit everybody.

1032
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 3: And I just fai, yeah, yeah.

1033
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 2: I just I don't want a lot of a lot

1034
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 2: of the people who run these restaurants as businesses are

1035
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 2: not trying to prey on the people who work in them, right,

1036
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: They are attempting to make it better for everybody. It's

1037
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 2: just strange that there's there aren't a lot of state

1038
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 2: and federal regulations that compel somebody to do that good right.

1039
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: H Yeah. It's almost like the uh, free market is

1040
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 3: another religion, and if you poke toward it objectively, you

1041
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 3: see the difference between religion and a solid economic system.

1042
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 3: And that's why I love you're saying. I love your

1043
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 3: reiterating this map because we said earlier restaurant owners are

1044
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 3: not some monolithic cabal, you know, like we have to

1045
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 3: be honest next time you're at a restaurant, the bill arrives,

1046
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 3: you decide not to tip someone where you're going to

1047
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: lecture them about the racist origin of tipping, the class

1048
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 3: system of tipping, which is actually absolutely true. Don't do that.

1049
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 3: Odds are the server may not know the conspiratorial origin

1050
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 3: story of tipping, and odds are they're working a very

1051
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 3: demanding job on their feet four hours with no real breaks,

1052
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 3: almost certainly no health insurance. I just feel like, because

1053
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 3: we're in the system, I feel like it is appropriate

1054
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 3: to tip people, and maybe tip more than is expected

1055
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 3: if you can afford to go out to a restaurant,

1056
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 3: help people.

1057
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 2: You know.

1058
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 3: I mean, if you don't feel right about tipping for

1059
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,919
Speaker 3: something in a certain instance, then your opinion, your money

1060
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 3: is your own. But don't be high and mighty about it, Like,

1061
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 3: what can we do? How can we fix this system?

1062
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 3: Have we made a NOK case about this? It's deeper

1063
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 3: than one person, right, other than George Bullman.

1064
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a tough situation. I'm going to shout out

1065
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: Catherine Campo Bowmen, who wrote for Eater in September twenty twenty.

1066
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 2: She wrote a piece called Gratuity Still Not Included and

1067
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: I would highly recommend anyone who's interested in this subject

1068
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 2: read that. She's got a quote from another restaurant tour

1069
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 2: named David Stockwell, who runs a place called co runs

1070
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 2: a place with his wife called Fawn in Brooklyn, New York,

1071
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: and he had this to say, which I think kind

1072
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 2: of speaks to the whole problem here, the whole problem

1073
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 2: with tipping in the US. He says, quote so many

1074
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 2: times that you're operating as a business. You realize, Okay,

1075
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: my politics and my ideals are one thing, but what's

1076
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 2: the priority here? End quote? And by priority he's speaking to,

1077
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: how do I, as a restaurant owner stay in business?

1078
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 2: How do I keep all of these employees here? What

1079
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 2: are the hard choices I have to make in order

1080
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: to continue on right and prosper as long as well

1081
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: as everybody else who's working for me? And in the end,

1082
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 2: he's like, we America, the people who visit my restaurant

1083
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn, I've got to keep tipping as it is

1084
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 2: in order to keep my servers here, in order to

1085
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 2: keep people coming to my restaurant and paying lower prices

1086
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 2: at the table until they decide on their own to

1087
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 2: make a tip. Because there's this thing that runs inside

1088
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 2: all of us, and it's we don't like to be

1089
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 2: told what to do. None of us like to be

1090
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 2: told what to do. And if you're basically told, oh,

1091
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 2: you're gonna you have to pay more, or you have

1092
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 2: to tip, or you have to do this, it's not

1093
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 2: the same as I make the free will decision to

1094
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: leave a tip to this server of this amount because

1095
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 2: I feel this way about how my service was. There's

1096
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 2: just such a different there's two very different experiences.

1097
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean psychological trends totally.

1098
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 4: I mean, the whole idea of tipping for good service

1099
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 4: is basically a thing of the pass, you know, and

1100
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 4: unless you're at a certain level of economic fluidity, let's

1101
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 4: just say, where you can really flex hard, you know,

1102
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 4: maybe even flex on the person that you're eating with.

1103
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 4: There's a whole joke on Curby Your Enthusiasm where Larry

1104
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 4: David goes to lunch with Jason Alexander and he tells

1105
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 4: Jason Alexander, you got to tell me what your tip

1106
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 4: is so we can match. And Jason rejects this wholeheartedly.

1107
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 4: He's like, I'm not telling you what I'm tipping. That's

1108
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 4: between me and the server, and then Larry gets sneaky

1109
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 4: and goes behind his back and figures out.

1110
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 3: What it is.

1111
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 4: And it's way higher than what Larry was doing. Because

1112
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 4: Jason wants to be like the big man, you know,

1113
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 4: he wants to be the the you know, between the

1114
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 4: two of them, he is flexing. But outside of that

1115
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 4: level of opulence, I mean no, if you don't leave

1116
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 4: somebody to even if they did a horrible job, you

1117
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 4: are breaking what has now become this mega codified you know,

1118
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 4: social norm.

1119
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 3: You can also make a sandwich at home also, which

1120
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 3: I know sounds very very but you know what we're

1121
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 3: coming up in the world. I'm drinking out a regular

1122
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 3: drink glass now instead of a mason jar, you know whatever.

1123
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 3: The question is what can we do? What can individuals do?

1124
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 3: People hate hearing this, but it is very much true.

1125
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 3: What you can do to combat this system, to make

1126
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 3: it more equitable is write to your local politicians. You

1127
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 3: may not be able to afford to bribe them or

1128
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 3: lobby them or whatever it's called, but talk about the

1129
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 3: fundamental right of minimum wage to be applied to service

1130
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 3: workers who are excluded from this mission critical law. While

1131
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,959
Speaker 3: you're at it, you can also push for more inclusive healthcare,

1132
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 3: so folks in this country have a fighting chance of

1133
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:56,440
Speaker 3: getting in and out of a hospital without facing bankruptcy

1134
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 3: and financial ruin. And you know what, fellow conspiracy realist

1135
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 3: bonus points, if you can help us and our fellow

1136
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 3: listeners find some solutions. What do you think is there

1137
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 3: a way to unravel and remove this conspiracy? Should the

1138
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 3: US be like Japan, where tipping is somewhat culturally offensive.

1139
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 3: Should it be somewhere in the middle. Should tipping in

1140
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 3: its uniquely US form continue, And if so, how do

1141
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 3: we ensure the fundamental rights of people who depend upon

1142
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 3: this system for their survival. I don't know. These are

1143
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 3: big questions. We think somebody should give us a call

1144
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:34,520
Speaker 3: or find us online.

1145
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you can do all those things if you

1146
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 4: want to find us online. We exist at the handle

1147
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 4: conspiracy Stuff on YouTube, where there's new fun video content

1148
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 4: coming up every week. Also Facebook, where we have a

1149
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 4: group called Here's where it Gets Crazy. You can join

1150
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 4: in on the conversation there, or on.

1151
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 3: Twitter where conspiracy stuff show. On Instagram and TikTok.

1152
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one A three

1153
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 2: three STDWYTK call us. You got three minutes, give us

1154
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 2: a cool nickname and let us know if we can

1155
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 2: use your message on the air. That's it. If you

1156
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 2: don't want to leave a message, why not instead send

1157
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1158
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:29,480
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1159
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,719
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1160
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1161
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.