Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. This generation, today's modern parents,
Speaker 1: have been trying to parent and create families that look
Speaker 1: a lot different than what we were raised. And kudos
Speaker 1: to us for trying to do that and defined trying
Speaker 1: to create and be intentional about creating families where mothers
Speaker 1: can be in the workforce and can work and don't
Speaker 1: have to sacrifice having a family to do it. Hello, everybody,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Katie's Crib. I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: seen more is the word memes. When you keep looking
Speaker 1: on Instagram and you see quotes that moms repost a lot,
Speaker 1: you will see that a lot of them are from Motherly,
Speaker 1: a lot of them. And I have on Katie's Crib
Speaker 1: today the person behind Motherly and behind those brilliant self affirming,
Speaker 1: life affirming, mama affirming um quotes and phrases and things
Speaker 1: that I see and I'm always like, holy crup, that's
Speaker 1: so right on, and they're always by Motherly. UM. To
Speaker 1: know a little bit about Jill cozi Il, she is,
Speaker 1: like I said, the co founder and CEO of Motherly,
Speaker 1: which if you don't know, let me tell you. It's
Speaker 1: a well being destination, empowering mothers to thrive with incredibly
Speaker 1: expert content, innovative product solutions, and a supportive community which
Speaker 1: we all need. We cannot do this alone. Motherly engages
Speaker 1: an audience of forty million plus readers and viewers a
Speaker 1: month with on demand parent education classes, Webby Award winning videos,
Speaker 1: the Motherly Podcast, essays, articles, and a highly engaged social
Speaker 1: media community. That's what I'm talking about with all those posts.
Speaker 1: So good. Jill is also the co author of The
Speaker 1: Motherly Guide to Becoming Mama, Redefining the Pregnancy, Birth, and
Speaker 1: Postpartum Journey and This is Motherhood, a motherly collection of
Speaker 1: reflections and practices. Jill is passionate about serving and empowering
Speaker 1: women and mothers because when momas are successful, everyone wins.
Speaker 1: She is an advocate for families, female founders, and how
Speaker 1: to thrive with multiple sclerosis. Jill lives in Park City, Utah,
Speaker 1: with her husband and her two daughters. Jill, Welcome to
Speaker 1: Katie's crib. Hi Jill, Hi, Katie, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for taking the time. I'm so excited to be talking
Speaker 1: to you today. So let's start here, did you always
Speaker 1: want to be a career working mom? Oh wow? Well, first,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me, and great question. Um,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of different models. You know, if
Speaker 1: you see it, you can be it. I had a
Speaker 1: lot of different models in my life, stay at home moms,
Speaker 1: part time working moms, of of entrepreneuring women, and I, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I did. I My father was an entrepreneur,
Speaker 1: and I think I always saw myself with the vision
Speaker 1: of contributing beyond my own small world in a bigger way.
Speaker 1: I already described it a little bit, but let's hear
Speaker 1: it in your words. What is motherly and how did
Speaker 1: you and Liz develop it? So we'll start with how
Speaker 1: we developed it, because we developed motherly because it didn't
Speaker 1: exist and we needed it. We were millennial mothers. We
Speaker 1: are millennial mothers, and we felt as though media and
Speaker 1: the world were treating motherhood as almost cartoonish um and
Speaker 1: really building and creating these mommy wars that just didn't
Speaker 1: really reflect our lived experiences. We looked around us and
Speaker 1: saw women that were becoming mothers that were incredibly educated,
Speaker 1: incredibly supportive, kind of a you do you generation, and
Speaker 1: we found that as digital natives. What was out there
Speaker 1: in the world, UM when we became moms you know,
Speaker 1: ten years ago, just didn't really align with our expectations.
Speaker 1: And so we launched Motherly really to be a next
Speaker 1: generation brand UM that that showed women that motherhood could
Speaker 1: be an opportunity to nurture not lose yourself. And so
Speaker 1: we launched Motherly as woman centered, not baby centered, to
Speaker 1: be evidence based, an expert driven, not user generated content,
Speaker 1: which sadly can often be a race to race to
Speaker 1: the bottom or a last And we also launched it
Speaker 1: to be empowering and non judgmental and not scary. UM.
Speaker 1: And so Motherly is a well being destination, as you said,
Speaker 1: that is for our forty million plus moms that kind
Speaker 1: of gathered together too to find a way to live
Speaker 1: their best life as women and as mothers. And what
Speaker 1: does Motherly offer for its forty million participants. So we
Speaker 1: are a destination and a hub of content around motherhood
Speaker 1: from planning a pregnancy through elementary and we're kind of
Speaker 1: growing with the millennial generation and meeting her where they're at.
Speaker 1: So I've got elementary age children myself, they're you know,
Speaker 1: we're kind of moving into that space UM. We provide
Speaker 1: expert content UM guides shop from everything from shopping guides
Speaker 1: on tested and reviewed products to also like the how
Speaker 1: twos of things like from a sleep progression to weaning
Speaker 1: from breastpeing and all in very empowering ways. We also
Speaker 1: have just like millions and millions of views on video
Speaker 1: UM and so video is a really big place for
Speaker 1: us as well. Social media very large on Facebook, Instagram,
Speaker 1: growing on TikTok. Now look at you, I know, trying
Speaker 1: trying to keep up with everyone, uy me myself getting
Speaker 1: a little bit older, but need to get yet. We
Speaker 1: have the Motherly podcast, we have books, and we've just
Speaker 1: launched a digital education platform. So we are the place
Speaker 1: to go as a hub for digital online classes from parenting, Wow,
Speaker 1: what kind of classes are you going to offer? Tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about this. Well everything, So we
Speaker 1: stand really tall and in that kind of pregnancy and
Speaker 1: new mom space and we've got lots of classes around that.
Speaker 1: Like basically, you know they always say motherhood doesn't come
Speaker 1: with the guide, Well now it does. You've got mother
Speaker 1: So we're there for everything from hypno birth thing and um,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to conceive UM two then sleep classes
Speaker 1: and breastfeeding classes and birth classes and the such, and
Speaker 1: then we're also doing classes around you know, how to
Speaker 1: raise capable adults, conscious and mindful parenting. UM. Leaning into
Speaker 1: Grandparents one oh one is a class that we're developing
Speaker 1: right now to like give your grand to be grandparents
Speaker 1: to take about what's changed since they were parents. Um. WHOA,
Speaker 1: that's brilliant. I don't think any that definitely, I've never
Speaker 1: heard of that before. That's brilliant. Well, we're so committed
Speaker 1: and obsessed to knowing what our user and audience wants,
Speaker 1: and like I'm running a business run four moms by moms,
Speaker 1: so we've got a great cadre of ideas every day
Speaker 1: of what we need. Um. And again, if mothers are
Speaker 1: you know, great innovators now actual innovators, and so we
Speaker 1: just find a problem in a gap in the market
Speaker 1: and we're here to fill it. This is a big
Speaker 1: question that we've talked a lot about on this podcast,
Speaker 1: and I would love to hear you speak on it.
Speaker 1: Why did COVID nineteen just break open the impossible way
Speaker 1: in which mothers can effectively be in the workforce? Very
Speaker 1: big load of question. Um, something that we have been
Speaker 1: really looking at for the last couple of years and
Speaker 1: living through and carrying this with our team of working
Speaker 1: mothers as well as our entire audience. We have this
Speaker 1: year released our fifth annual State of Motherhood Survey results
Speaker 1: and it's the largest statistically significant study on moms. And
Speaker 1: so um we wait everything to the US Census data.
Speaker 1: Like so we we pull together this data to give
Speaker 1: voice to who this woman is into the struggles and
Speaker 1: we've so we have data now from the last you know,
Speaker 1: two plus years on COVID specifically and how it's changed.
Speaker 1: And this is what I have found. This is a
Speaker 1: mix of quind of qualitative and quantitative data. What I
Speaker 1: believe is that this generation, today's modern parents, have been
Speaker 1: trying to parent and create families that look a lot
Speaker 1: different than what we were raised And and kudos to
Speaker 1: us for trying to do that and defined trying to
Speaker 1: create and be intentional about creating families where mothers can
Speaker 1: be in the workforce and can work and don't have
Speaker 1: to sacrifice having a family to do it. And so
Speaker 1: I think you find partners that are much more engaged
Speaker 1: these days than in the past. And I think we've
Speaker 1: we've made a lot of progress towards that, but but
Speaker 1: it's outside of everyone's comfort zone. Then COVID comes along,
Speaker 1: and what we get with COVID is this thing that
Speaker 1: throws everyone outside of their comfort zone even more. And
Speaker 1: when you're faced with the crisis, you try to go
Speaker 1: back to what's comfortable, what worked, what have I seen
Speaker 1: in the past. And I think what we found is
Speaker 1: that mothers were disproportionately impacted by COVID because all of
Speaker 1: that effort towards trying to create a different type of
Speaker 1: family got put on the back burner. All this progress
Speaker 1: got put back and we went back to default parenting expectations,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the man's out in the workforce
Speaker 1: working and the mom's taking home. We went back to
Speaker 1: what felt comfortable, and it has set us back. Sometimes
Speaker 1: in my negative moments, it feels like it's set us
Speaker 1: back a generation. Frankly, when you look at the Great Resignation,
Speaker 1: it is not a surprise that the Great Resignation happened
Speaker 1: when schools were supposed to start back up and didn't.
Speaker 1: When you lose the backstop of government support for things
Speaker 1: like this, mothers are the ones that carry that unequal burden.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it makes me, honestly, like I feel
Speaker 1: emotional about it, Like I'm just like you should we
Speaker 1: need to be angry. It's so setting uh as running Motherly,
Speaker 1: I mean, I find it can be really hard to
Speaker 1: practice what you preach. I really do, like I a
Speaker 1: lot and oftentimes think that this podcast is the greatest gift.
Speaker 1: And then sometimes I'm like, I know exactly what I
Speaker 1: should be doing in this parenting moment, and watch me
Speaker 1: not do it? Do you know what I mean? Like?
Speaker 1: How do you manage it all? How do you manage
Speaker 1: motherly being a mother of two? Also you're living with MS?
Speaker 1: Like how I mean, We're gonna get into that later,
Speaker 1: but how do you manage being a working mother in
Speaker 1: a pandemic world? So loaded loaded question. We can spend
Speaker 1: an entire episode probably talking about that. UM. I think
Speaker 1: it's important to note that, just like parenting evolves and
Speaker 1: changes as your children age and you enter these different stages,
Speaker 1: like just when you think you've got it figured out,
Speaker 1: you don't write, things change. For me, being a working
Speaker 1: mother has been that way too. When we first launched Motherly,
Speaker 1: before we had any funding or any staff, like it
Speaker 1: was working without childcare during nap times like very young children. Um,
Speaker 1: and on weekends you know, with a supportive partner, supportive
Speaker 1: husband who would take them on saturdays, and I would
Speaker 1: like power through and now and it has evolved and change,
Speaker 1: you know through the years with Motherly, where we have
Speaker 1: a staff now that create you know, helps facilitate enable
Speaker 1: me to have better integration in my work, work in life.
Speaker 1: And um, now like we've got to no pair, I
Speaker 1: who just started on Friday. Um, this is a new
Speaker 1: phase for us. Our kids are going to be going
Speaker 1: a bit further away for school and we need additional
Speaker 1: like we need driver's support at this point to make
Speaker 1: it work. And so um, it's our childcare evolving and changing.
Speaker 1: It's frankly as my means, as our family have improved,
Speaker 1: you know, outsourcing things like this is there's privilege involved
Speaker 1: in this, for sure. There's the fact that I have
Speaker 1: healthy meals delivered as an example, UM, and I do
Speaker 1: have the O pair. We have a home that can
Speaker 1: facilitate that and have someone live with us for it.
Speaker 1: But it also it's it's hard, no matter what, It's
Speaker 1: very hard. Motherly is not a personality driven brand because
Speaker 1: I don't want people thinking I think I'm the perfect parent. Uh,
Speaker 1: that is definitely not the case. Like I'm reading and
Speaker 1: learning from motherly and our experts every single day also
Speaker 1: and um, just like everyone else, Like I'm kind of
Speaker 1: making it up as I go along to how keeping
Speaker 1: it personal at the moment. Is this the first time
Speaker 1: you've ever had live in care? Um? I know you said,
Speaker 1: it's sort of organically shifted from when you were doing
Speaker 1: everything when they were little little and fitting in being
Speaker 1: a working mother during naps and during weekends, which I
Speaker 1: have a ton of friends that do that, and my god, um,
Speaker 1: it's insane, it's really insane. Um, and doing work, like
Speaker 1: you get the kids down at seven, eight o'clock at
Speaker 1: night and then you're working from till eleven thirty and
Speaker 1: then you're up at six doing it all over again. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm getting PTSD reminding me. Yeah, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I remember when my brother got My brother is a
Speaker 1: very very very involved dad and even still his wife
Speaker 1: got COVID and had to quarantine. This was in the
Speaker 1: beginning arantine somewhere else and they had a very young
Speaker 1: baby and he was getting up at four am, working
Speaker 1: from four to seven on his work, being with her
Speaker 1: from seven to ten, she'd take her first nap, then
Speaker 1: he would do work like he was and he was like,
Speaker 1: that was the hardest week of my life. Like he
Speaker 1: was like existing on fort I was like, that's what
Speaker 1: moms do it. It's fucked up. It is so fucked up.
Speaker 1: So how's your mom guilt? Talk to me about that, Jill.
Speaker 1: It's it's real. Um. So well, and one thing you men,
Speaker 1: you mentioned COVID And I didn't answer that first part
Speaker 1: of that other question, but I moved and moved my
Speaker 1: whole family because of COVID. Schools were going to be
Speaker 1: closed in California, and my husband and I, who was
Speaker 1: also a very you know, stressed out business person, UM
Speaker 1: was like, this is not going to work for our family.
Speaker 1: Were far from family. We need these kids in school,
Speaker 1: Like this does not work. And that is where I
Speaker 1: started to really feel a lot of mom guilt then,
Speaker 1: because I wasn't showing up as my best self right.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a we had a white board
Speaker 1: where we were outlining what things I needed to do
Speaker 1: my husband I need to do for our our own
Speaker 1: physical selves, for our family, for a household, and for work.
Speaker 1: And we were putting showering on like to make sure
Speaker 1: we did those things at that time, and it just
Speaker 1: we were not showing up as our best selves. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I had a kindergartener at the time who
Speaker 1: could not do the zooms and do all of that
Speaker 1: on our own. It was insanity. And so we we
Speaker 1: like a boarded ship. I mean, we literally got in
Speaker 1: a car and drove to Park City, Utah, because we
Speaker 1: heard the schools were going to be open, and we
Speaker 1: thought we were only going to stay here for four months,
Speaker 1: because you know, we thought the world would return to normal,
Speaker 1: and it didn't. And we ended up buying a house.
Speaker 1: And so I've in a place that I had never
Speaker 1: known about our moved into before. And so I feel
Speaker 1: guilt because I like ripped my family out of like
Speaker 1: their home right to make this work during COVID. But
Speaker 1: I also again that concept of mom guilt. Like I'm
Speaker 1: Catholic too, so like I get I get the guilt, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't serve anyone honestly. And so I am
Speaker 1: constantly like my children asked me about working, and they're
Speaker 1: old enough now they're eight in ten, they understand that,
Speaker 1: like I am doing something that I enjoy doing because
Speaker 1: I think it's important they see that moms enjoy work,
Speaker 1: that I enjoy what I'm doing, that it is contributing
Speaker 1: to our family. Um, I'm blessed that it's serving the
Speaker 1: world in a bigger way, like they're proud of me,
Speaker 1: um and I and I think that helps. But I'm
Speaker 1: also always open to the fact that, like, we can
Speaker 1: change how we're doing this. We're not setting our ways,
Speaker 1: And I think COVID has kind of taught us that,
Speaker 1: like the whole world can change in an instant. And
Speaker 1: so if something's not working and not serving my family,
Speaker 1: were making me feel guilty, like I will find a
Speaker 1: way to shift. Didn't change. Great. You were included in
Speaker 1: a documentary releaser by the E W Scripts Company earlier
Speaker 1: this year. The documentary titled Motherhood in America is all
Speaker 1: about moms and it acknowledges all the work mothers do
Speaker 1: and the challenges they face. And you mentioned in the
Speaker 1: documentary that family planning is on the top of your
Speaker 1: agenda and that you really you actually did, really want
Speaker 1: to do it by yourself. Is that true? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we've been taught as women to try to do
Speaker 1: it all ourselves, um, and so in the very beginning,
Speaker 1: I mean, I when we first had our daughter, our
Speaker 1: first daughter, Claire, I remember, I was adamant. I didn't
Speaker 1: want people visiting us the first two weeks. I wanted,
Speaker 1: like me and my husband to do it a bubble. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wanted like a little bubble for us to figure
Speaker 1: it out. And I, you know, I didn't want childcare help.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to help with like housekeeping. Like I
Speaker 1: felt this like sense of like identity, like this need
Speaker 1: to do every single thing myself. And it, I mean,
Speaker 1: it nearly killed me. I mean that was impossible, especially
Speaker 1: when I went back to work sooner than you know,
Speaker 1: like most American women, UM, sooner than my body and
Speaker 1: like my emotions were ready for me. And it nearly
Speaker 1: killed me. And I remember talking to my mother in law,
Speaker 1: who is a dentist and has always had elither had
Speaker 1: her own practice or worked and she sees that I'm
Speaker 1: okay asking for help and and frankly demanding that we
Speaker 1: have help in our family. And she says that she's
Speaker 1: almost like, not in a negative way, but like envious
Speaker 1: of the fact that I have come to terms with
Speaker 1: the fact that I can't do it all. Finally it
Speaker 1: took years uh in my MS diagnosis, but that it
Speaker 1: come to terms of like I'm okay accepting the help
Speaker 1: because as a woman, you know, raising children in the eighties,
Speaker 1: like she didn't have that. She didn't have she couldn't
Speaker 1: give herself that permission. And she sees like, how much
Speaker 1: more present I can be with my children because I'm
Speaker 1: not scrubbing the floor at the same time, right, Like
Speaker 1: I'm able to find Again, there's privilege involved in that,
Speaker 1: but like we trade off other things, right, Like right,
Speaker 1: I prioritize those things so that I can make it
Speaker 1: work for both my mental and physical health. M hm um.
Speaker 1: What were some of the moments in your life where
Speaker 1: you recognized at someone else could do something faster, cheaper better.
Speaker 1: For example, like you said, maybe you need help cleaning
Speaker 1: your house, Maybe you need help you know as a driver,
Speaker 1: Like that's something that like you can outsource that might
Speaker 1: actually make it so that you can earn more money
Speaker 1: in that time. Uh, in another way, can you give
Speaker 1: me some examples of moments like that. It was definitely
Speaker 1: Motherly as we started to scaling grow and realizing that
Speaker 1: I had to hire people at Motherly to do more
Speaker 1: things right. Like that was the starting point for me
Speaker 1: that made me realize that, like, maybe I can do
Speaker 1: this thing, but I'm not the only person that can
Speaker 1: do this thing, and by me trying to do all
Speaker 1: the things, I'm actually holding back this business and our potential, right.
Speaker 1: And so I started getting more comfortable hiring people for Motherly,
Speaker 1: and then I started realizing, oh, whoa, that person can
Speaker 1: do that better than I did it, right, And so
Speaker 1: I got past that mental block of it, and then
Speaker 1: I started realizing I started understanding what it was like
Speaker 1: to scale right. And then I said, well, if I
Speaker 1: can scale in my business life, then I can probably
Speaker 1: scale and better optimize in my personal life too. And
Speaker 1: it was definitely a really important moment when we raised
Speaker 1: our first outside funding, so Motherly's venture backed, which means
Speaker 1: we have investors. This is um so we're meant to
Speaker 1: be a high growth company. And you can't do that
Speaker 1: if you're constantly distracted by the mental list of things
Speaker 1: that you need to be doing for your home and
Speaker 1: your household too. And so I knew that I was
Speaker 1: going to let those investors down and that frankly, I
Speaker 1: had a fiduciary responsibility um to find a way to
Speaker 1: make this work better. It reminds me Carrie Washington, who's
Speaker 1: one of my dear dear friends. You know, she's such
Speaker 1: a titan in in all in all ways, but she's
Speaker 1: you know, such so career driven, an excellent mother of three,
Speaker 1: she you know, runs businesses as a production company, a
Speaker 1: million things going on. And she used to say to me,
Speaker 1: if you're always just maintaining, you'll never be able to grow. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And so if you just spend your days in reaction
Speaker 1: to everything going on, whether that's in the with the
Speaker 1: kids or in your business, you'll never be able to
Speaker 1: like have the brain space to actually do something better
Speaker 1: or figure out what it is exactly that you want.
Speaker 1: And it's and it's releasing yourself from these self limiting
Speaker 1: models that you have of who and what you are
Speaker 1: right and and again this gets back to like I
Speaker 1: do think our generation has been trying to be very
Speaker 1: intentional about creating a different type of family and dynamic
Speaker 1: then maybe we were raised in and I am just
Speaker 1: I think that's such an amazing thing. But it takes intentionality,
Speaker 1: and it's uncomfortable, and it is um it's always like,
Speaker 1: you know, two steps forward, one step back right and
Speaker 1: making those kinds of changes. But you have to break
Speaker 1: things apart and go outside of what feels comfortable in
Speaker 1: order to have that growth. Is being a mom harder
Speaker 1: or easier than you imagine. New motherhood was so much harder.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was thinking. Um, I, I know,
Speaker 1: you really don't know until you get there, right. I'm
Speaker 1: convinced every person is like, I think I'll be okay,
Speaker 1: Like I think I'll be okay, and then you get
Speaker 1: there and you're like, I am not okay. Oh I didn't.
Speaker 1: I did not appreciate the physicality of motherhood. Breastfeeding was
Speaker 1: incredibly hard for me, And then I had all that
Speaker 1: guilt around, like you know, switching to formula, and now
Speaker 1: I'm piste off that I understand so much more about
Speaker 1: formula that there weren't better choices in formula than um.
Speaker 1: But like I had, I had no idea how my
Speaker 1: body was going to be rocked, and that it wasn't
Speaker 1: just this like postpartum period, that it was really like
Speaker 1: reclaiming My body took really really long time to feel
Speaker 1: like it was my own. And I mean there are
Speaker 1: still times with an eight and ten year old that
Speaker 1: I'm like, mommy needs a little personal space, Like I
Speaker 1: need you a little further away from me right now
Speaker 1: because I'm feeling touched out. Oh yeah, I said that
Speaker 1: to my son this morning. He kept like I was
Speaker 1: having conversations with other people and he kept grabbing my
Speaker 1: face to look at him and pay attention to him.
Speaker 1: And I just got my period today, so I'm like
Speaker 1: super sensitive to touch. It's like, I'm just like, please
Speaker 1: do not touch my body unless you have asked permission first. Also,
Speaker 1: please use your words, say excuse me, and then be
Speaker 1: patient to wait until I say yes, I hear you.
Speaker 1: Give me a moment, you know, give me a moment.
Speaker 1: And I was like so touched out this morning, I
Speaker 1: couldn't handle it. So things like that that are so
Speaker 1: much harder. There are other things like having a second child.
Speaker 1: It was so much easier to love a second child.
Speaker 1: I agree. I'm I had a very similar experience, Like
Speaker 1: I did not have the like I feel bad about
Speaker 1: having a second kid, or am I going to have
Speaker 1: enough room in my heart for a second kid? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that all was seamless for me to Thank God. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank goodness, I mean we all again it's a lot
Speaker 1: of times I think of it like as a CEO,
Speaker 1: I you know, have to worry about technology and we're
Speaker 1: a digital based company. And I always tell my tech
Speaker 1: team they'll laugh if they listen to this, that like
Speaker 1: I know enough to be dangerous. So the things that
Speaker 1: I think are easy to do from a tech perspective
Speaker 1: are actually really fucking hard. And the things that I
Speaker 1: think are hard, they're like, we can do that in
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. And that's how parenting, I think is, Like
Speaker 1: my expectations are often very very off, and I'm starting
Speaker 1: to learn that bigger kids, bigger problems. Um, the physicality
Speaker 1: is a lot less now they're older. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm entering I've got two daughters, Like I'm
Speaker 1: entering into like between and team stage. So like pray
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, you're yeah, bigger problems in the mental health,
Speaker 1: you're in a different phase. Oh my god, I'm terrifying exactly.
Speaker 1: You mentioned on your motherly website, which is incredible. Everybody listening,
Speaker 1: go to the motherly website. Thank you so much. That
Speaker 1: you were diagnosed with multiple sclerosis three months after launching Motherly.
Speaker 1: How tell me about your mental health space after receiving
Speaker 1: the news. Oh, that would be the low point of life,
Speaker 1: I have to say. UM, So I developed optic naritis,
Speaker 1: which is the most common time way of getting of
Speaker 1: starting to experience ms UM, which is almost like you
Speaker 1: have like a bug screen over like a bug screen
Speaker 1: over your eyes. So I could still see, but they
Speaker 1: were like it wasn't and it was clear, but there
Speaker 1: were like black spots in it almost right. And that
Speaker 1: was weird because I was thirty five, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: happens to be the average age of onset of multiple
Speaker 1: scrosis for women. And so the good news is when
Speaker 1: you get optic naritis or any kind of weird I
Speaker 1: thing in your thirty five, like the automatri sees you
Speaker 1: immediately and so UM, I was actually diagnosed very quickly. UM.
Speaker 1: Some people it takes decades to get diagnosed, and so
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed within ten days of onset of symptoms. UM.
Speaker 1: And that was a combination of being able to advocate
Speaker 1: for myself and feeling entitled to advocate for myself, having
Speaker 1: an excellent network, having great health insurance, and like being
Speaker 1: an area in the Bay Area with like Stanford and
Speaker 1: UCSF and great access to care and had any of
Speaker 1: those things not been true, it could have taken me
Speaker 1: a lot longer. So in equity and healthcare is like
Speaker 1: a whole another topic for a podcast, but yeah, we've
Speaker 1: done them and it's dismal and so so I was
Speaker 1: diagnosed very quickly. But yeah, it was three months after
Speaker 1: launching Motherly and like launching out with like from Google
Speaker 1: headquarters in New York and you know, the eyes on
Speaker 1: us and like wanting to scale and had worked so
Speaker 1: hard to launch this thing, and I was floored. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's one of the few times I've been brought to
Speaker 1: my knees in my life because I found out that like,
Speaker 1: not only did I have this problem, but I had
Speaker 1: actually had seven or eight asians in my brain, which
Speaker 1: are like things. Only one was active at the time,
Speaker 1: but those are like scars on your brain from having had,
Speaker 1: you know, episodes of some sort along the way. And
Speaker 1: I had to look. I had to make really hard
Speaker 1: decisions really fast, and including one which was to start
Speaker 1: a really aggressive medicine that would stop MS and it's
Speaker 1: in its tracks, which it did. But I also had
Speaker 1: to decide that we were done having children because it's
Speaker 1: known to um have birth defects and I, I mean,
Speaker 1: we made that hard family choice for ourselves and it
Speaker 1: was the best choice. UM. And but yeah, then I
Speaker 1: was doing you know, Ahmed every month with my team on.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd be at the hospital for an outpatient,
Speaker 1: but be at the hospital for the infusion that I
Speaker 1: would do every month, and like while there and you know,
Speaker 1: i'd be find at the beginning of it and by
Speaker 1: the ends like they'd see my head kind of oh
Speaker 1: my gosh. And just but like I couldn't stop. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you ask Liz, I don't think I took a
Speaker 1: full day off the whole time, because we just couldn't UM.
Speaker 1: And I'm a woman and a mom. I just kept
Speaker 1: powering on UM. But then later I started to learn
Speaker 1: that this was kind of a wake up call. Like
Speaker 1: the MS wasn't caused by my stress right or anything
Speaker 1: related to that, but it was certainly the wake up
Speaker 1: call that I needed to find better balance in my
Speaker 1: life and to find tools that could help me create
Speaker 1: space so that I really could prioritize my health and
Speaker 1: show up best as the CEO of Motherly but also
Speaker 1: as the CEO of my family. Mm hmm. I know
Speaker 1: that self care is very very important, um in terms
Speaker 1: of like like walking when it's too hot out, like
Speaker 1: like a lot of things Like that's such a stupid example,
Speaker 1: but just meaning to say, you really have to reevaluate
Speaker 1: your life, um and make it so that you stay healthy. Um.
Speaker 1: How tell me about reevaluating things like that and how
Speaker 1: that affected your career and your family dynamics. So because
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed so quickly and my first flare like
Speaker 1: real flair that impacted my life was able to kind
Speaker 1: of revert back, I have what's called remitting relapsing. It remitted,
Speaker 1: it came back, I mean it went away and it's
Speaker 1: never come back for me because of the meds that
Speaker 1: I'm on and I'm on Oak Purvis now, um so
Speaker 1: it's a different med but switched over to that and
Speaker 1: it's like the most widely used and just it's a
Speaker 1: game changer for people. Um. And because of that, I
Speaker 1: have zero symptoms, like zero symptoms um from it. Again,
Speaker 1: everyone's lived experiences differently with MS, so I've been very
Speaker 1: very lucky with that, and but it's still taught me,
Speaker 1: Like I exercise. I remember my doctor said, most people
Speaker 1: you know say, oh, I want to exercise, like three
Speaker 1: to five times a week, like that's what it takes
Speaker 1: to be healthy. And he's like, for you, you need
Speaker 1: to think to yourself, five is my minimum? Because MS
Speaker 1: is it can be a layering disease, right, and so
Speaker 1: as I age, we don't want something else to get
Speaker 1: layered on, like with obesity or diabetes or some other
Speaker 1: health related issue. He's like, you need to be as
Speaker 1: healthy as you possibly can so that if for some
Speaker 1: reason the MS starts to come back, you're not layering
Speaker 1: in on top of other things. Wow wow, wow wow,
Speaker 1: But what a gift is that? Yeah, No, you're like
Speaker 1: you're not. Look, we should all be working out or
Speaker 1: taking care of our physical bodies. But you know that
Speaker 1: very deeply right now. Well, I had a doctor actually
Speaker 1: like write me a prescription for it in a way,
Speaker 1: right and tell you like you have to do it.
Speaker 1: And it was so scared at that time of MS
Speaker 1: and of like of of becoming the stabilitated person, which
Speaker 1: is what you see right um, and that I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: got it, Like I will do. So it's eating whole foods,
Speaker 1: not processed foods, not a lot of sugar, working out
Speaker 1: and finding space for like mindfulness and meditation shin too, right,
Speaker 1: like to clear that space for myself, and that last
Speaker 1: one is the hardest. But I've meditated every day this week, UM,
Speaker 1: which is doing good. Well done on you, Jill. I've
Speaker 1: sat down to start every day and then my son
Speaker 1: comes in and I'm like, Okay, how did Motherly and
Speaker 1: your family support you through the diagnosis? I mean, Liz
Speaker 1: Tentedy is my co founder and she is the end
Speaker 1: of my yang. UM. We became so close through Motherly
Speaker 1: as a whole, like no one else in the world
Speaker 1: knows what it means to be a co founder of
Speaker 1: Motherly but her right, and so this really intense relationship
Speaker 1: for through the ups and downs of startup life UM
Speaker 1: and through MS and UM she was has always been
Speaker 1: incredibly supportive and UM and the whole team too. In
Speaker 1: the early days, you know, Katie, I I was nervous
Speaker 1: to tell our investors because of the stigma attached to MS.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a neurological disease, right, and I'm a
Speaker 1: there's so few women in venture backed businesses running venture
Speaker 1: backed businesses, and even fewer mothers doing it. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to give any reason why, you know that could
Speaker 1: hold me back in some way or why they shouldn't invest.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I met with our attorneys and
Speaker 1: they said, look like this is you have doctors saying
Speaker 1: it's not holding you back. You don't have to tell them.
Speaker 1: So I waited a little while to really share that
Speaker 1: diagnosed until diagnosis until I felt like motherly was strong
Speaker 1: enough on its own right. Um, and that was hard,
Speaker 1: but I had the support of my team, and I
Speaker 1: had the support, and ultimately I learned I have the
Speaker 1: support of my investors too, which is wonderful. And then
Speaker 1: on the family side, Um, my husband is amazing. Pete,
Speaker 1: m y, Pete. He's he's a really he's a true partner.
Speaker 1: Um he I will say, and he would acknowledge this,
Speaker 1: Like it is very uncomfortable in our family when I
Speaker 1: am weak for whatever reason. Like he's so used to
Speaker 1: me being strong and solid and like the rock that
Speaker 1: everyone else can lean on. That when there are moments
Speaker 1: when I show weakness, like it sets the family off kilter.
Speaker 1: But like and and he has a hard time initially responding,
Speaker 1: but like when I am there, standing there in that
Speaker 1: weakness and he can like really internalize that he's there,
Speaker 1: he shows up and he carries the load when he
Speaker 1: needs to, um, which is wonderful. UM. And then also
Speaker 1: you know it's also girlfriends, right, like I mean women
Speaker 1: like I have a friend. UM. I had a really
Speaker 1: hard time going to the first I went to an
Speaker 1: m S walk after I was first diagnosed, and like
Speaker 1: trying to internalize and process the fact that I had
Speaker 1: a disease that required a walk right to fundraise for
Speaker 1: it and of course and I was so traumatized seeing
Speaker 1: the people and like the disabilities that came from it
Speaker 1: later and um, and I was really not looking forward
Speaker 1: to it the next year. It was felt like the
Speaker 1: survivor guilt of sorts that that wasn't sure for me.
Speaker 1: And I had a dear friend Evan who told me,
Speaker 1: gave me permission. She's like, Jill, this is not your story,
Speaker 1: Like you don't have to go and do that, right, like,
Speaker 1: you choose what is your story and this and it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be what you There's no should are
Speaker 1: supposed to use right, So friends, family, and thank you pete. UM.
Speaker 1: Can you give us some examples of when you pushed
Speaker 1: like past guild, whether it's work guild or family guild,
Speaker 1: and you prioritize self care instead. How do you make
Speaker 1: those calls? How do you How did you meditate every
Speaker 1: day this week? So this is a new one. Okay.
Speaker 1: I took a transcendental um um transcendent meditation of course
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when things were like not
Speaker 1: going well with motherly and like I was not sleeping
Speaker 1: and like there was this like stress cycle kind of
Speaker 1: happening then, and I sleep was so critical. So I
Speaker 1: took the course then and then I've been horrible at
Speaker 1: following up on it, and so um I, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I just felt like now is the time to come
Speaker 1: back to that practice, and so um I have just
Speaker 1: woken up. I'm not doing the whole thing right now.
Speaker 1: I'm not being a good like practice m practicer, but
Speaker 1: woke up ten minutes earlier than I normally do, and
Speaker 1: I sat up and I meditated, um just for ten minutes. Hey,
Speaker 1: that's fucking to you and not And you know what,
Speaker 1: no one even knew because it was ten minutes earlier,
Speaker 1: right Like, so no one in the family, no one
Speaker 1: was running in to wake me up. That's gonna happen
Speaker 1: like tomorrow, now that I've said this, um so there's that,
Speaker 1: but the guilt side of it, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: every day today I had a call starting at eight am,
Speaker 1: and I had a workout class at eight thirty, and um,
Speaker 1: I talked to my Cheetah staff while I'm driving there
Speaker 1: and like it's summer, the kids are, you know, home
Speaker 1: from you know, camp doesn't start till later, and so
Speaker 1: it's not part of like the normal routine. And I
Speaker 1: was like, Daddy's gonna take you to camp today, Like
Speaker 1: I'm doing this and this is where like the clawing
Speaker 1: a like no, mommy, what are you gonna pick us?
Speaker 1: Are you going to pick us up? Like, no, the
Speaker 1: pair is gonna come pick you up today, And like
Speaker 1: there are times in my life where I probably would
Speaker 1: have been like okay, like I'll stay, and maybe when
Speaker 1: they were younger, maybe like I'll stay, like my workout
Speaker 1: doesn't need to happen. That's me. Damn it no, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: damn it no. Yes. And I think I feel a
Speaker 1: responsibility too because I'm raising daughters that I want to
Speaker 1: raise daughters that understand self care that I model it
Speaker 1: for now because I want them to have a healthy
Speaker 1: relationship and I don't I want it to feel like
Speaker 1: organic for them. I don't want it to have to
Speaker 1: be like hard in the way that it is for us, right,
Speaker 1: And so I kind of feel like I wipe away
Speaker 1: a little bit of guilt because I tell myself that
Speaker 1: I'm modeling something important for them. Yeah, I do that
Speaker 1: when I go to work and he's like, no, you're
Speaker 1: always going to work, You're always leaving. Get it on,
Speaker 1: And I just flip it around in my brand and
Speaker 1: I say, and I'm I I love my job. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that I get to go to a job
Speaker 1: that I love so much. And my hope for you
Speaker 1: is that some day you get to go to a
Speaker 1: job that you love so much. To love that so important.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying it out loud to convince myself to
Speaker 1: get over the mom guilt totally. How were you practicing
Speaker 1: saying no to others after you found out about your diagnosis, Like,
Speaker 1: what would you say was the best way to practice
Speaker 1: and follow through on saying no for you? You know,
Speaker 1: that's a great question because there's I actually wrote a
Speaker 1: small essay and then this is Motherhood Book because I'm
Speaker 1: not one of the I'm not one of the writers
Speaker 1: at Motherly Lake Again play to other people's superpowers. Not
Speaker 1: my thing, but I did write one about that because
Speaker 1: again speaking about wise women in your village of sorts
Speaker 1: and friends. Um I had this woman, um Lori and
Speaker 1: in my circle of friends in California, and she her
Speaker 1: children a little bit older, so she's like, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of stages ahead. And she talked about she
Speaker 1: had a cancer diagnosis um or when her kids are
Speaker 1: a little bit younger. And she just said, you know,
Speaker 1: this is not my season for saying yes, this is
Speaker 1: my season for no, and like the season always like
Speaker 1: see change right and like my yeam, and that was
Speaker 1: so freeing, and so I just started saying, like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's like if someone asked me to volunteer at school
Speaker 1: as an example, right, like this isn't really my season
Speaker 1: for volunteering right now, and so like but like please
Speaker 1: ask me again, like next year, like ship that's good,
Speaker 1: that's really good, not this season. You know, this isn't
Speaker 1: my season for that. Oh my god, that's really funny. Yes,
Speaker 1: And then you have to like and then talking about
Speaker 1: stories you tell yourself and saying it out loud, but
Speaker 1: also like, this is not my season for cooking in
Speaker 1: the home either personally, I've never been in that season.
Speaker 1: I I don't I don't know what that looks at.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I've never been in that season
Speaker 1: to my whole life. I mean, a kid's menu I'm
Speaker 1: fine with. I can do fucking meatballs, spaghetti, chicken, fingers,
Speaker 1: casey d whatever, That's all fine, But like a season
Speaker 1: for cooking actual ship never gonna happen. Don't care, not
Speaker 1: a value of mine, exactly exactly leaning into those and
Speaker 1: letting the guilt go about them and just being like
Speaker 1: this is not that's not not my thing right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not not my season. That is so funny. One
Speaker 1: other kind of tip on that is I also, um,
Speaker 1: I started to prioritize, like if I am going to
Speaker 1: volunteer with the schools. Back then, I said, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be in a place where my children see me,
Speaker 1: So like I'm not going to be on the organizing committee,
Speaker 1: but I'll show up to do the thing so my
Speaker 1: kids see me there and like I'm part of that
Speaker 1: experience with them, Like if I could pick and choose.
Speaker 1: So that was really important to Ship. That's good. Who
Speaker 1: gave you that tip? That one? I just kind of
Speaker 1: like figured out. But here's the difference. Now that I'm
Speaker 1: you know, the CEO of a company, I can do
Speaker 1: my best, my most my highest driven purpose is joining
Speaker 1: the board of things. I can have the largest impact
Speaker 1: in the shortest amount of time. Right again, the season's
Speaker 1: change for like what you need and how you can work? Wow,
Speaker 1: what would you say to women who are moms who
Speaker 1: are looking to start a business? Start talking about it
Speaker 1: every day with everyone, Like, start trying on for size
Speaker 1: what that is. We have a lot of self limiting
Speaker 1: talk that we do for ourselves, especially as women and
Speaker 1: even more as moms. And the biggest advice I can
Speaker 1: give is just start talking about it. Create that feedback loop.
Speaker 1: See what people have to say. Um, it'll change how
Speaker 1: you talk about it the next time, right, Like, just
Speaker 1: put it out there into the world and see what
Speaker 1: kind of goodness comes from that. The more you talk
Speaker 1: about it, the more support you get. The more you
Speaker 1: you know, iterate the idea through talking about it, the
Speaker 1: bigger it becomes. It's it's like watering a plant, right
Speaker 1: like it will continue to grow and so and a
Speaker 1: lot of people hold it too close, like their idea.
Speaker 1: They keep it, you know, they kind of put it
Speaker 1: aside and they keep it so close, and you know
Speaker 1: they feed it quietly on the side, but like, no,
Speaker 1: put it out there in the world and talk about
Speaker 1: it as much as you can. This is such a
Speaker 1: great and achievable tip like that is you just keep watering,
Speaker 1: just keep talking about it, to talk about your idea,
Speaker 1: talking about the business. You want to talk about it
Speaker 1: with anyone who listen. It's family, it's friends, it's the
Speaker 1: school drop off, like whatever funking is. Just talk because
Speaker 1: that's sort of how my husband started the pretzel business.
Speaker 1: And then like one thing started, my husband started a
Speaker 1: pretzel business during the pandemic. But anyway, it was like
Speaker 1: through just opening his mouth like constantly. It really does work. Okay,
Speaker 1: Then the opposite of that question, what tips and support
Speaker 1: do you give women who have huge careers already who
Speaker 1: are becoming first time moms. Yes, so it's time to
Speaker 1: radically prioritize um and and to acknowledge that you are
Speaker 1: not going to be able to do all of the things.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be a master at your calendar. You're gonna
Speaker 1: be so much more efficient. You're going to gain all
Speaker 1: these super powers through motherhood that are going to make
Speaker 1: you better at your job. But you've got you'll learn
Speaker 1: like I did, to hire really good people that like,
Speaker 1: don't be scared about them being better than you. That's
Speaker 1: a good thing, um, And to really empower them in
Speaker 1: a different way to free you up some on the
Speaker 1: business side. And then the same thing at home, Like
Speaker 1: do the things that bring you joy and have the
Speaker 1: biggest impact with your child and with your with your
Speaker 1: partner if you have one, and like and let the
Speaker 1: rest of it go. Let it go. Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: so great, Such great advice. Any advice for mothers what
Speaker 1: they can do if they feel like it's all too
Speaker 1: overwhelming and impossible. Talk about it again. Um, let's talk
Speaker 1: about it with your partner, talk about it with your friends,
Speaker 1: and talk about it with your doctor. You know, we've
Speaker 1: got a mental health epidemic in this country that has
Speaker 1: been exacerbated by COVID, by the pandemic UM A lot
Speaker 1: of anxiety, a lot of depression, UM, and you know,
Speaker 1: post lack of structural and governmental and societal support from
Speaker 1: mothers generally, like talk to your doctors about it. And
Speaker 1: so often women's medical issues, mental or physical, are not
Speaker 1: um are not really taken seriously in the medical world.
Speaker 1: And so if you feel like you're not being taken seriously,
Speaker 1: go to another doctor. Yeah, you have to advocating for yourself.
Speaker 1: You have to. If you feel like you are not
Speaker 1: a priority, not getting the attention you need, people aren't
Speaker 1: listening to you, and you don't feel well mentally or physically,
Speaker 1: go to someone else. Exactly. You women intuitively understand when
Speaker 1: something is not right with their bodies. We are very
Speaker 1: very capable of that. And the thing that we're not
Speaker 1: always so good at is advocating for ourselves and and
Speaker 1: giving voice to those things. And again we put ourselves
Speaker 1: on the back burner over and over again. And I
Speaker 1: say all the time, if a mother is thriving, then
Speaker 1: and only then can a family in a community thrive.
Speaker 1: And so we're at the center. I love that we
Speaker 1: are the center. Good Lord, Yes, do you have any
Speaker 1: favorite stories about your kids? Goodness? You know, I actually have.
Speaker 1: I should have. If I'd know when you were asking this,
Speaker 1: I would have brought it with me. Um. I had
Speaker 1: this little thought, one line a day journal, like a
Speaker 1: five year journal. It's like this big and I did
Speaker 1: and I did it for like three years or like
Speaker 1: two and a half. Oh. I I did it one
Speaker 1: page and then I was like, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 1: Three years is good? Good Lord, good on you. The
Speaker 1: girls were two years apart, so there's a lot of
Speaker 1: cuteness happening in three years, right, like quotes down of
Speaker 1: like what they would say. I used it as that
Speaker 1: more than anything. Um, and I just my daughter found it.
Speaker 1: My ten year old found it the other day and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I might pick it
Speaker 1: back up like seven years later and just start again
Speaker 1: with it now. So it's to me, it's it's not
Speaker 1: like the big things, it's the little tiny things that
Speaker 1: make me so happy and make me smile. Like she
Speaker 1: reading that she remembered that her sister's name when we
Speaker 1: moved here, she changed from Kate to Catherine. I mean
Speaker 1: she's seven, so like you know, you can tell how
Speaker 1: you can tell a high school is going to be
Speaker 1: for us already by that little anecdote. Um, I am
Speaker 1: no longer Kate. I will only be called Katherine. So
Speaker 1: I'm reading through this and apparently Claire, our eldest, used
Speaker 1: to call her Tate. She couldn't call her Kate. Um.
Speaker 1: And then there was another one in there that Kate
Speaker 1: at the time. Katherine. Now, um, someone came up and
Speaker 1: like set like an adult and was like, you know
Speaker 1: what's your you know what's your name? And she's like,
Speaker 1: She's like, my name is Kate, but you can call
Speaker 1: me Cubby and like never ever has anyone called her
Speaker 1: copy like she gave herself this nickname. Yeah, there's all
Speaker 1: It's all the tiny little moments that add up over time.
Speaker 1: And you know, I wish I had taken more video
Speaker 1: actually when they were little, little, um, just to capture
Speaker 1: all of that. Well, you were a little busy. It's
Speaker 1: always a little busy. It's okay, it's okay. Um, two
Speaker 1: more last questions and then we'll go, Um, how do
Speaker 1: you believe this is? We do so many podcasts on this,
Speaker 1: but if you have anything to add to this, great
Speaker 1: and if not, I get it because it's too much.
Speaker 1: How do you believe that America can change and provide
Speaker 1: better for moms in the workspace? Oh, Katie, I got
Speaker 1: a list on this one. I mean, okay, go read
Speaker 1: the State of Motherhood study fro or hell, go read
Speaker 1: all five of them. Okay, if you want to playbook
Speaker 1: on what mothers need because through motherly they have told
Speaker 1: us what they need. They need paid maternity leave. They
Speaker 1: need rental leave in this country, like we need to
Speaker 1: rental leave in this country and stop. Yes. Second, they
Speaker 1: need affordable childcare. We need affordable childcare. Yes, yes, And
Speaker 1: here's I learned this recently. Do you know that during
Speaker 1: World War Two, when women had to go to work
Speaker 1: in factories, do you know that we had government provided
Speaker 1: childcare for all of the children. If you were a
Speaker 1: working mother, you dropped your children off with these at
Speaker 1: these beautiful locations, for all of your children. They took
Speaker 1: your child to the doctor for you, I get the chills.
Speaker 1: They took your child to the doctor. And when you
Speaker 1: picked your children up at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: they gave you a cast of role so you didn't
Speaker 1: have to make dinner. Shut the front door, Jill, Like
Speaker 1: we've done this, guys. This is fucked up. Were set
Speaker 1: up to fail. It's fucked up. It's it's it's what
Speaker 1: we are doing is impossible. And here's here's for you,
Speaker 1: Katie and for your for your listeners. The millennial generation
Speaker 1: is the first generation history and which women are more
Speaker 1: educated than men. Okay, I read this on your site.
Speaker 1: It is no longer a nice to have for women
Speaker 1: to be in the workforce. It is an economic and
Speaker 1: competitive and perative, which means in order for our country
Speaker 1: to be competitive in the world, we have got to
Speaker 1: figure out how to keep women in the workforce after
Speaker 1: they become mothers. We have to support them or we
Speaker 1: are going to lose as a country, as a society.
Speaker 1: Like this is not a nice to have anymore, and
Speaker 1: it's an imperative. Ok, you gonna make me cry. But
Speaker 1: those are two totally things that by the way, regardless
Speaker 1: of party, everyone is everyone, every single person that we mean,
Speaker 1: it's like it is one of the few things that
Speaker 1: everyone is aligned on this country is paid paternity leave,
Speaker 1: like government paid supportive fraternity lead and affordable childcare. That's it.
Speaker 1: That is what we need in this country. If we
Speaker 1: did those two things, Oh oh my gosh, it would
Speaker 1: be yeah, yeah, who who has that? Finland, Norway, Sweden.
Speaker 1: I mean we're the last developing country. I feel like
Speaker 1: that doesn't have paid paternity leave. But there's others that
Speaker 1: do and have it much longer. They're smaller countries, they're
Speaker 1: less diverse. It's harder us as big and gnarly in
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways. But we can do this.
Speaker 1: We can. We have to. It's imperative we will lose.
Speaker 1: Women are better and smarter and more educated then men.
Speaker 1: They have to be in the workplace. Okay, finish this
Speaker 1: sentence and that I'm letting you go. Parenthood is Parenthood
Speaker 1: is chaotic and the chaos, but like, there's so much
Speaker 1: beauty in the chaos too. There's so much hardship, there's
Speaker 1: so much beauty, like, but it is, it is chaotic,
Speaker 1: there is like always, there's a lot of emotions, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of physical needs, there's a lot of growth,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of problems. There's a lot of food
Speaker 1: to make and be fed, you know, like it's a lot,
Speaker 1: but it's it is. It's beautiful. So like my first
Speaker 1: thought actually it was beautiful and magical, and then I
Speaker 1: was like, but it's not. Those are too clean of words.
Speaker 1: It's actually chaotic and that can be beautiful too, but
Speaker 1: it's definitely challenging and worth it. Jill, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming on Katie's crib. Everybody listening, please go
Speaker 1: to mother dot l Y. Jill, thank you for taking
Speaker 1: the time to come on Katie's crib and speaking with
Speaker 1: our listeners. It was a wonderful or. I learned a
Speaker 1: ton of stuff that I will take for me and
Speaker 1: you made me cry. Um. Thank you so much, it's
Speaker 1: been so fun. Thank you guys so much for listening
Speaker 1: to today's episode. I want to hear from you. Let's
Speaker 1: chat questions, comments, concerns. Let me know. You can always
Speaker 1: find me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
Speaker 1: Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda
Speaker 1: land Audio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.