1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 2: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 2: controlled by one man. 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 3: He says. He's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 3: it will be different. He'll vote Republican. There is a 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 3: reason the US government is so reliant on him. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 4: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: Anything he does is fascinating the people. 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon Inc. Where we discuss Elon Musk's past 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: corporate empire, his latest gambits and antics, and how to 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: make sense of it all. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: I really thought we'd talk about Cybertruck this week, and 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: we will, I promise. But first, I'm sure you've seen 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: the videos and photos. On Monday, Elon Musk put on 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: body armor to take a tour in Israeli kibbutz that 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: was attacked on October seventh. Speaking to Israel Prime Minister 19 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: Benjamin and Yahuan x, he offered to help rebuild Gaza. 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: Those are a crazy couple of sentences. The head of 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: six cutting Edge Companies took his private jet to the 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 2: site of a Hamas massacre just miles from an active 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: war zone. It raises a lot of questions, what is 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 2: Musk doing? Why? What is he trying to accomplish? To 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 2: discuss his trip to Israel, we've brought in Marissa Newman, 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: our Israeli tech reporter. Marissa, thanks for making time for us. 27 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: We know you've been very, very busy. 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 3: Thank you. 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: And Max Chafkin, senior reporter at Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Hey, then 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: we'll dig into all things cyber truck with longtime Tesla 31 00:01:53,720 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 2: reporter Dana Hull. Okay, Israel, Marissa, what was Elon mush there? 32 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: So officially he was here for a solidarity visit during 33 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: the war, he tore the key boots in the south 34 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 3: on the cause of border that was the site of 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 3: one of the massacres. But the context of his visit 36 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: came after he was embroiled in another anti Semitism scandal 37 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: when he endorsed a tweet that was anti Semitic, and 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 3: the last time that he had been in a similar situation. 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: He met Nitao Nitunio traveled to California, and this visit 40 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: was also seen as sort of a way to walk 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: himself out of the latest scandal. 42 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 2: Now, numbers are you during that last meeting they had 43 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: in September in California? You were there, correct? 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 45 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: And and what was it like then and how was 46 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: that different than now? 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: So at the time, Nitaniello said to him, you know, 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: we hope that within the confines of the First Amendment, 49 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 3: you'll fight anti semitism on X. And then that gave 50 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 3: Musk sort of the platform to say, well, you know, 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: I'm a post anti semitism, I'm post of racism in 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: any form. And during this visit they had sort of 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: a spaces conversation on X, and anti semitism didn't really 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: didn't come up at all. Musk also met with the 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: Israeli president and another cabinet member, and they brought up 56 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: anti semitism, but they spoke generally about combating anti semitism X. 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: They didn't directly confront him about his own actions. So definitely, 58 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 3: from Nitagnell's point of view, it wasn't a focus. 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 2: But now, Max, we do know that Musk has done 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: some tweeting or xing about his most recent embrooliers. 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 62 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, So as as Marissa says these Net and Yahoo 63 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: meetings were clearly, you know, part of an effort by 64 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: Elon Musk to say, you know, how could I be 65 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: an anti Semi. I'm like good friends with the you know, 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: the leader of Israel. He has all along besides these 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: two meetings, he's had a very kind of steady drumbeat 68 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: of interviews essentially claiming that, you know, he's not an 69 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: anti Semi. He went on Ben Shapiro's show, he said 70 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: that he's you know, Jewish in the kind of George 71 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: Santos way. He Yesterday, while this was going on, one 72 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: of his fans said, you know, I hope this puts 73 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: arrest to the to these you know, rumors that Elon 74 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: Musk is anti Semitic, and Musk responded, yeah, I hope 75 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: so too. I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially endorsed that. So 76 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: he's more or less said that that was one of 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: his goals here. I think there are real questions about 78 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: whether it will achieve what he wants to achieve, because 79 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: of course, you know, there's an Israeli audience and then 80 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: there's a US audience, and it's a US audience of advertisers, 81 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: in particular, who are you know, still concerned about extremist 82 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: content on X and the possibility that their ads will 83 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: show next to it. 84 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: So, Marissa, how has Musk been received there in Israel? 85 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: So Musk was received warmly by politicians, with the exception 86 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: of the Israeli president sort of bring anti Semitism as 87 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: an issue. There's been just a wave of world leaders 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: who have been visiting Israel, and among Israelis there's a 89 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 3: certain appreciation for those for those visits, those wartime visits. 90 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 3: On the other hand, there definitely is a lot of 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 3: criticism over both disinformation on X and conspiracy theories about 92 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: the war that are that are not being curbed. 93 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: I mean we should also say that, like there is 94 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: this thread of Elon Musk's endorsement of an you know, 95 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: anti Semitic conspiracy theory. But Elon Musk also just generally 96 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: likes to throw himself into the mix when there is 97 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 1: a big global controversy. You know, he vowed to fix 98 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: the Flint water system during the water crisis. He inserted 99 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: himself into the into the Tie Cave rescue. This is 100 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: a guy who you know, likes to be the main 101 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: character and and of course that gets him in trouble 102 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the time. But I think you know, 103 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: he often does this thing which world leaders also do, 104 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: which is, hey, there's a big conflict, let me put 105 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: myself in this. 106 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: So this is this is geopolitical elin right, the sover 107 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 2: that the sovereign Republic of Elon Musk, all right, so rises, 108 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: So what other global CEOs have shown up on in 109 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: Israel and gotten this kind of tour from Benjamin Nettanna. 110 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: Who none President Biden was here. He got a warm welcome. 111 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 3: World leaders were here, but no CEOs. Obviously this is 112 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 3: very unusual, and it's it's worth pointing out that nittaill 113 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 3: went down south to do this. 114 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: Tour with him, taking away from what is presumably fairly 115 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: busy agenda. 116 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 3: Now yeah, I mean there's a ceasefire so but definitely 117 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 3: definitely it's the middle of the war and there are 118 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 3: hostage exchanges every night. And Ntoniello was in the South 119 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: giving Musk the tour of the key. 120 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: Boots, right. So Max, that really does, though, speak again 121 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: to to the power of the geopolitical Elon and and 122 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: and the and the influence he wieled you once ranked 123 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: him if you were a country, you said, He were 124 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: barely top two hundred. That's crazy. He's totally totally top 125 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: two hundred. 126 00:06:58,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean he's he's the richest person in the world. 127 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: So so that gives him a certain status he operates 128 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: all these companies. Also, he's got a unique willingness, a 129 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: a Kardashian level appetite to be in the middle, middle 130 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: of the storm. And obviously net and Yahou has something 131 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: to gain Bye Bye by showcasing a relationship with Elon Musk. 132 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: And so you have this kind of mutual trade which 133 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: we've seen other world leaders make, you know, in the UK, 134 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, and elsewhere. It'll it will continue where where 135 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is able to command these audiences. And it's 136 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: in everybody. It's in both sides interest to show that 137 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: he is of this status and that they are able 138 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: to attract, you know, the great the world's great industrialist 139 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: as they see it, to their country. And at the 140 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: same time, right there's this possibility that Starlink is going 141 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: to become a government contractor, it's going to offer its 142 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: its internet services to governments and and so maybe there's 143 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: a dual purpose here with this visit, both in terms 144 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: of potentially marketing Starlink and making contacts with the Israeli 145 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: government and also trying to say like, how could I 146 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: anti Semitic If I, you know, have friends. Look at 147 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: my Jewish friend over here, how could I be an 148 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: anti Semite? 149 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: Right? 150 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: So, two birds with one stone now Marissa Starlink his 151 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: satellite unit within SpaceX. It came up to a certain 152 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: extent during this visit. 153 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: It did come up early on in the war. The 154 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: Israeli Communications Ministry said that they were interested in Starlink 155 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: to back up Israel's communications during the war. And then 156 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: a few weeks later, Musk tweeted that he would be 157 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: willing to give Gaza International aid organizations in Gaza access 158 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: to Starlink, which immediately infuriated the Israelis, who said that 159 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 3: that would be exploited by Hamas. Then Musk walked it back, said, 160 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 3: oh no, we wouldn't do that without sort of the 161 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 3: approval of the Israeli Defense Establishment and the US Department 162 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 3: of Defense. And then on the morning of his visit, 163 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: while he was sort of in the south with Ntagne 164 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 3: touring the key Boots, the Communications Minister said that they 165 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: had reached some sort of understanding under which Israel would 166 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: control Starlink in Israel and in Gaza. That doesn't seem 167 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 3: to be a done deal Starlight. You know, no one 168 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: on Musk side has confirmed that, and the Ministry is 169 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: saying that it's an understanding, but it's not. It's not final, 170 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: but it's definitely something that's that's coming up in the 171 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: talks and as part. 172 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: Of this got it, we got it. Got it. So 173 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: no concrete deal yet, but max in general conflict has 174 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: been very good for Starlink's business. Yes, well, and. 175 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: It's been very good for SpaceX's business. I mean, people 176 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: forget this, but SpaceX is a massive defense contractor and 177 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: Starlink the satellite unit, which you know, we and others 178 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: have reported, is you know at least considering an IPO 179 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: moving towards an IPO via some kind of spin off. 180 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, it would be a natural way for this 181 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: company to you know, get more revenue and also do 182 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: a thing that Elon Musk is good at, which is 183 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, kind of court governments. Uh and and and 184 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: convince them to give him write him very large checks. 185 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 2: And so last thing. So he is right. Elon fancies 186 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: himself this world leader, and other world leaders seem eager 187 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: and keen to make time for him. Why Marissa does 188 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: Benjamin and Yahoo make time for him and entertain him? 189 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: And by the way, I think it was it was 190 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: no small deal when they went to the to effectively, 191 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: you know, a place that was just miles from an 192 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: active war zone. What's in it for him? 193 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 3: Well, originally when he went to California, it came in 194 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: sort of at the height of protests in Israel's over 195 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 3: his judicial reforms, and that was being led by the 196 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 3: tech community, and at the time now was very keen 197 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: to show that he's tech friendly, that he's sort of 198 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: he cast himself as the person who built Israel's tech economy, 199 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 3: and so that embrace with Musk at the time was 200 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 3: sort of framed around that. And I think that's still 201 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: something that he's looking for. He's you know, the Israeli 202 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 3: government has sort of spoken about trying to get Musk 203 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: to invest in AI in Israel, to sort of have 204 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 3: a presence in Israel, and I think that's something that continued. 205 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: Those talks areits are ongoing. And one of the meetings 206 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: Musks had when he was here was with tech entrepreneurs, 207 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: with cybersecurity officials in Israel. 208 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: There's also the question of does this help Elon Musk. 209 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: We should say, first of all, Musk has denied, and 210 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: we've said this on other podcasts, denied that he's anti Semitic, 211 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: that this isn't entirely just like a bogus media conspiracy. 212 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 2: I think like that. 213 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: It's it's unlikely that this is going to make much 214 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: of a dent, either in the advertising boycott or in 215 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: the like larger narrative about him. 216 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we're. 217 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: We're seeing essentially a similar strategy to one that Donald 218 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: Trump deployed right where he was. He was very close 219 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: to net Yahu and also very unpopular among American Jews. 220 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: And so it is not necessarily like those two things, 221 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily go together. It's not clear that anyone's 222 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: going to buy this. It's it's a pretty weak defense 223 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: of the of the bad tweet that he did. When 224 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: he could, he still could just apologize, and of course 225 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: he's not doing that. 226 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not it's not on brand, and he's not 227 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: doing it, nor do I suspect will he listen, Marissa, 228 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: thank you very much for your time. 229 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: Thank you. 230 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: We'll have you on again soon. Okay, we're back and 231 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 2: joining me and Max now is Dana Hall. Dana, welcome back. 232 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 4: Good morning. 233 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: So then when I woke up this morning, and as 234 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: I always do, I went right to my Bloomberg terminal, 235 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: the number one read story this morning was your story. 236 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: Musk's cybertruck is already a production nightmare for Tesla. It 237 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: is indeed, these things are hitting the road. What's gone 238 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: so wrong? Why has it taken so long for them 239 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: to get it here? And what does it look like 240 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: going forward in terms of them ramping up output. 241 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think what's interesting to me is that, 242 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 4: as you all may remember, Musk first unveiled this cyber 243 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 4: truck four years ago in November of twenty nineteen, and 244 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 4: that was the big event where, you know, it was 245 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 4: like this huge viral event. They sort of unveiled the truck, 246 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 4: were kind of a gast and shocked at how weird 247 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 4: it looked. They tried to prove that the glass was shatterproof, 248 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 4: and they threw like a mallet or a ball at it, 249 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 4: and the glass shattered and it went viral. It was 250 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: like this incredible, incredible event. 251 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: Well, maybe that was a little too hard. 252 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 4: Four years later, the night, you know, we're finally going 253 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 4: to actually see the vehicles like handed over to the 254 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 4: first trusted customers. It'll probably be a mix of like 255 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: employees and friends of Elon, and so Tesla is having 256 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 4: this big event on Thursday to kind of do the 257 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 4: handover of the very first cyber trucks. And in the meantime, 258 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 4: cyber trucks have shown up in showrooms. So I went 259 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 4: on Sunday to go see one. I had a showroom 260 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: here in the Bay Area, and you know, the cyber 261 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 4: truck is like surrounded by ropes and everyone's like crammed 262 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 4: in like taking selfies of it, and so it's like 263 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 4: the vehicle exists, like you can go see them. 264 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: So there was a big there's a big crowd. 265 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was a big It was a big 266 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 4: like Black Friday shopping things, a big way for Tesla 267 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 4: to get folks into the showroom. But simultaneously, everything that 268 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 4: Elon Musk has said about the cyber truck just like 269 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: gives me the spidy sense that things are not going well. 270 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: And the wonderful thing about Elon as a CEO is 271 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 4: that he's remarkably frank, almost frank to a fault, And 272 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 4: on the last Ernie's call, he just went on and 273 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 4: on about how the cyber truck is going to be 274 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 4: really hard to make. It's going to take blood, sweat 275 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 4: and tears to get it to volume production. He went 276 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 4: so far as to say that they dug their own grave. 277 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: We dug our own grave of cer cyber trucks, every 278 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: big tigs are gray better than themselves. 279 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: When he does say that, when he says things like 280 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 2: we dug our own grave, which, by the way, Max, 281 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,479 Speaker 2: in terms of hopping on on a call with investors 282 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: and saying something like that about a product you're about 283 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: to release, that's pretty unusual. 284 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: No, well, I mean, I think he's trying to manage 285 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: expectations because from the sort of like Tesla bowl point 286 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: of view, the cyber truck has a lot of potentially 287 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: You got to remember, like big picture, he Tesla has 288 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: has been struggling or at least managing demand, like how 289 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: much do customers really want these cars? They've sold so 290 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: many model threes, And this is a car that's been 291 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: on the market and model wise, the suv version of 292 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: the All three, this is a car that's been on 293 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: the market for a really long time. You know, there's 294 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: a potential for sort of fatigue. Right, You're basically talking 295 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: about a sensible, you know, smallish car. It's not the 296 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing that people get really excited about. On 297 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: top of that, you have Elon Musk kind of every 298 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: day going on Twitter and saying stuff that is you know, 299 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: edgy or borderline you know, racist, as we discussed earlier, 300 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: and so like that. These things are all, you know, 301 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: arguably harming to demand for these cars. Meanwhile, you have 302 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: this brand new design. It's really snazzy. It's in a 303 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: category that you know, obviously moves a lot of numbers. 304 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: Trucks are you know, bigger category than cars in the 305 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,119 Speaker 1: United States. So so this is like a huge opportunity, 306 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: and I think Elon Musk has been trying diligently to 307 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: get investors to understand that, Yeah, while he sees the opportunity, 308 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: it's a long term opportunity, not something that's going to 309 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: happen in the next year. 310 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: Now, Dan, when he came up with this super unique design, 311 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: I think inspired in part by one of his children, 312 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 2: what is the profile of the buyer that he had 313 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: in mind? As a truck owner myself, I do not 314 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: see myself changing turning in my Chevy Colorado anytime soon 315 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: for a cyber truck. Who is the buyer of this vehicle? 316 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 4: Well, that's the big question, right. So the truck market 317 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 4: in the United States, it's pretty formulaic. You have some 318 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 4: big brands like the Ford F one fifty, the Chevy Silverado, 319 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 4: and you know, trucks kind of look the same and 320 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 4: like every new truck is basically an iteration of the 321 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: very basic design with better specs, And this is like 322 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 4: a category defining vehicle. Will the contractor who needs to 323 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 4: like haul lumber to their job site, like drive this thing? 324 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean there's a lot of questions 325 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 4: about what is the actual Well, we don't know the 326 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 4: specs yet, and we don't know the range, and we 327 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 4: don't know the price, because those are sort of big 328 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 4: unknowns that I presume we'll get on Thursday. 329 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 2: When I think about trucks, I feel like I break 330 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: them down and truck buyers into two categories. Those who 331 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 2: buy trucks for the utility of them, and then those 332 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 2: who buy trucks for the statement and the look. I 333 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 2: don't I can't envision anybody who's a truck buyer who's 334 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: looking for the utility of the vehicle it's hauling and 335 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: so on and so forth, even though of course I 336 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 2: know the cyber truck can do those things. Is looking 337 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: to hey, let me get me, we when we plunk 338 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: down X amount of dollars for that thing. To me, 339 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 2: it's almost more like your buyer is like the buyer 340 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 2: who bought Hummers years ago. 341 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 3: Right. 342 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 4: The other thing to remember about the truck market is 343 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 4: that like half of it is fleet sales, like you 344 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 4: know at and t utility workers, you know, like PG. 345 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 4: I mean, a lot of a lot of these, a 346 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: lot of a lot of truck A lot of trucks 347 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 4: are bought by corporate fleets, and so I don't think 348 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 4: that the cyber truck is going to appeal to that buyer. 349 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 4: So you've got sort of the consumer who's buying it 350 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 4: as a lifestyle statement, you know, I mean, it will 351 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 4: have it a certain appeal. There are definitely fanboys and 352 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 4: Tesla fans, you know, who will buy this thing, But 353 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 4: how many how many are we talking about? 354 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: That fleet buyer is precisely to the point that fleet 355 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 2: buyer is absolutely a utility buyer. It's it's utility of 356 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: the vehicle. 357 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 4: Right utility buyers. You know, like if a corporation wants 358 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 4: to buy a bunch of trucks for their contractors or 359 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 4: their workers, they tend to want to buy them in bulk. 360 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 4: They want to make sure that the parts are there 361 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 4: to fix them if needed. They want to have a 362 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 4: pretty quick turnaround time in case there's any maintenance issues, 363 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 4: Like they are not going to be plunking down to 364 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 4: buy this vehicle in high numbers anytime soon. And I 365 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 4: don't even think the fleet buyer is part of the 366 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 4: equation at all. So it's consumers. Is it the La 367 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 4: guy who wants to pretend that he's Mad Max on 368 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 4: the freeways of southern California? Is it the Texas person? 369 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: You know? 370 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 4: And there's all these like bells and whistles that they 371 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 4: keep talking about like it's bulletproof or you can sling 372 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 4: an arrow at it, Like do you need that? Like 373 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 4: does does is that something that the that the American 374 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 4: consumer actually needs? So it's it seems like it's it's 375 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 4: you know, they're they're obsessing about these things that like 376 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 4: I wasn't really aware that the average American truck buyer 377 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 4: was crying out for a bulletproof vehicle. Like maybe maybe 378 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 4: I'm maybe I'm an optimist about the state of the world, 379 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 4: But yeah, who who buys this is a very interesting question. 380 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 4: There will be buyers, no question, but I think it's 381 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 4: gonna be pretty niche just like the Model X. 382 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: If you're reading tat turn and you're watching those SpaceX launches, 383 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: you are going to buy a cyber truck. But but 384 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: the truth is that is a narrow constituency. The big 385 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: constituency are these kind of sensible car buyers, and that 386 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: is a group he is not speaking to right now. 387 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: I have another question for you, Dan and your piece today, 388 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: does indeed get at this a lot? Let's pretend indeed 389 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: that demand for these vehicles is booming. And by the way, 390 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: demand for vehic for EV's in general, including some EV 391 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 2: trucks from Ford and Chevy's, kind of seems a little spotty. 392 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 2: But let's pretend it does boom. Can they ramp and 393 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 2: scale up output as needed to meet that demand? 394 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 4: Well, that's what he's warned is going to be very 395 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 4: very slow. And I think that when Elon Musk says 396 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 4: something's going to be hard, like listen to him, Like 397 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 4: this guy has done this before. And what's fascinating is 398 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 4: that it's like it's almost like they're repeating the same 399 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 4: mistake that they made with the Model X. They've they've 400 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 4: sort of fell on their sword and finally emitted the 401 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 4: Model X, you know, had too much new technology that 402 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 4: it was a victim of Tesla's own hubris. And now 403 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 4: here he is like audit earnings calls. Heelling investor is 404 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 4: very clearly like, we're about to go through production hell 405 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 4: all over again. We dug our own grave. This is 406 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 4: a unique complex vehicle. It's going to take eighteen months 407 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 4: till we get anywhere close to volume production. So you know, 408 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 4: I think it'll be very interesting to see who gets 409 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 4: these first vehicles on Thursday at the big handover event. 410 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 4: And then when Tesla reports sales in quarterly sales in January, 411 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 4: like how many cyber do they deliver in the fourth quarter? 412 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 4: Is it ten? 413 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: Oh, it's going to be very like ten? 414 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: Is it fifteen? 415 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 4: And you know, eventually they will get there. But it's 416 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 4: not just the steel. It's like all these new things, 417 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 4: like they're using their in house battery cells, it's eight 418 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: hundred volt architecture, there's like an oval seering wheel, there's 419 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 4: like you know, dynamic suspension. I mean, there's a lot 420 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 4: of like cool things that I think are cool, but 421 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 4: like in aggregate to make sure that all those things 422 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 4: cool things are working. It's just like a lot of 423 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 4: little engineering issues that are going to continue to crop 424 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 4: up until they smooth it out. And I mean that's 425 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 4: what happens whenever you launch a new vehicle. It's just 426 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 4: surprising to me that at this stage and the company's development, 427 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 4: that they've chosen to go with the vehicle that seems 428 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 4: to just be saddled with so many things that could 429 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 4: go wrong. 430 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny because one thing we should remember 431 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: is that in the Isaacson book on Musk, it came 432 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 2: out Dana right that designers at Tessel were so freaked 433 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: out by this design and so unnerved by the design 434 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: that they were secretly plotting to build and design their 435 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 2: own truck. Right. 436 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that was a big chapter in the 437 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 4: Isaacson book. And it's it's hard not to look at 438 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 4: this and think, Okay, this had like a focus group 439 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 4: of one and that one person happens to be ahead 440 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 4: of the company, like and I would love to know, 441 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 4: like Tesla engineers if you're listening, like, did you focus 442 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 4: group this with like tech with truck buyers in Michigan 443 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 4: and Ohio and Texas. 444 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: Like he never must never does he never does focus groups, right. 445 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 4: Not usually. So if this seems like one of those 446 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 4: things where like Elon, Elon sort of he gets obsessive 447 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 4: about certain details, Like with the Model X, he was 448 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 4: he had to have these Falcon wing doors and like 449 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 4: every engineer at the company was like, oh my god, 450 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 4: these doors are such a pain in the ass, but 451 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 4: like Elon was insistent on them. It seems like with 452 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 4: the cyber truck, he's like insisting on certain elements and 453 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 4: you know, I don't know what the design discussions were 454 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 4: like those doors. 455 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: For I gotta just remind everybody that car, the X 456 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: that Dana has been talking about, it was supposed to 457 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: be the Sensible, it was supposed to be the minivan, 458 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: Tesla's minivan. It's a big, it's a three row kind 459 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: of hybrid suv. You know, it's for families. It was 460 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: the family car, and they designed these crazy doors that 461 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: like literally only appeal to like a very narrow subset 462 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: of childless man, right, Like you have to be like 463 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: like very versed in the you know, automotive details of 464 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: sports cars and like back to the future for this 465 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: to make sense, and we're kind of seeing the same 466 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: thing all over again. And the crazy thing is, Dana 467 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: points out, is must just acknowledge this. He's talked about 468 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: how this was a mistake. These were not things that 469 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,719 Speaker 1: people actually wanted. It was a mistake to sell you know, 470 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: basically moms and dads on these psychotic wars. 471 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: It didn't didn't work that well. 472 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 4: Just look at the chart that's at our story today. 473 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 4: It took them so long to ramp the X, and 474 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 4: then the X has never been a big seller. Now 475 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 4: the Model Why is this huge hit, But the Model 476 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 4: Why is like does not have those crazy doors and 477 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 4: the why is awesome, Like whenever I rent a Tesla 478 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 4: from Hurtz, I always rent a Model Y. I think 479 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 4: it's a fantastic car, but it's like simple and so 480 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 4: like why, Like if you're going to make a truck, 481 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 4: if you're going to enter the highly competitive truck market, like, okay, 482 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 4: you want it to look like a blade Runner thing, fine, 483 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 4: but like why adding all the bells and whistles like 484 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 4: Musk called it like an insane. I think he called 485 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 4: it an insane technology bandwagon, Like why complicate it for yourself? 486 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 4: Like why make it harder? 487 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: Because he loves the challenge, I suppose to a certain degree. 488 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this as we wrap up here 489 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: on the cyber truck. If it were to fail Dana 490 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: Hall and be a bust and a flop either because 491 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: the demand's not there because they can't scale it, how 492 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 2: big a deal is it to Tesla and to Tesla's 493 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 2: stock price? 494 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 4: That's a good that's a good question. I think that 495 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 4: investors tend to be pretty forgiving of Tesla, and I 496 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 4: think that Musk has really tempered expectations for this vehicle 497 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 4: by going on and on the way he did on 498 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 4: the call. So I don't know what part of the 499 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 4: valuation of the company right now is resting on this vehicle. 500 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 4: I don't think it's a lot. 501 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 1: We should probably try to just like imagine how this 502 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: could work out, just just because you never know. I mean, like, 503 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: maybe it turns out that some of these things that 504 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: are so difficult to manufacture actually do have a lot 505 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: of utility. You could imagine, right, fleets do care about 506 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: paying for gas? You know, maybe a lot of these 507 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: trips are short. Maybe there are ways that this is 508 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 1: more practical than we're anticipating. And also maybe you know, 509 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: there were a lot of hummers sold in the in 510 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: the ninety tons, and maybe this does capture the imagination 511 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: in a way that you know, becomes a cultural icon. 512 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: But then you're back to this problem of Okay, well 513 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: now you have to manufacture them. 514 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: You got to if you gotta make them. Yeah, my 515 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: whole thing Just just to be clear on the utility, 516 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: it's not that the cyber truck doesn't have utility. It's 517 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: like I've had friends who've tried to get me convinced 518 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 2: me to buy didn't Jeep come out with some sort 519 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 2: of gladiator the gladiator? And my point to them was 520 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: very simply, I'm not going to pay the premium for 521 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: the look in the statement, right, like there's a whole 522 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 2: like hipster value to it that No, I just want 523 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: the util the truck. And so you know that what 524 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: does this cyber truck even Max you're entertaining. 525 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: You're you're I was wondering when you brought up the 526 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: question of who are the real truck guys versus posers? 527 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Which category you were in I'm glad to know clearly. 528 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 2: I'm a real truck. But what what is the price? 529 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 4: I mean, that's the other thing that's bananas. We don't 530 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 4: know the price, We don't know the battery range, we 531 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 4: don't have any real specs in terms of just like 532 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 4: a lot of things. 533 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 2: Okay, so listen, find a little bonus segment here. As 534 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: these cyber trucks are released into the wild, I'm gonna 535 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: ask you, guys, who, among us, including our good friend 536 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: Sarah Fryar, is most likely to first hop behind the wheel? Max. 537 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: I think it's me, unfortunately, just because I think I'm 538 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: the only one who's willing to admit that I sometimes 539 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: think about pickup trucks, and not for utility. Reason is 540 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: because I think they're cool. 541 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: You want to be cool, you want to be a badass. 542 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: I want to be a cool man with a pickup 543 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: truck cigar in your mouth. And this is probably a 544 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: thing that Odyssey drivers, you know, just go through. 545 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 2: Uh mine's the twenty nineteen. Probably when you. 546 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: Get to your third or fourth year with the Odyssey, 547 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: you start to think about pickup trucks. 548 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 2: And that's me right now, you got young kids, you 549 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: still embrace that all right, Dana. If it's not Max, 550 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: who is it? Or do you too say Max? 551 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I could see Max. I could see Max going 552 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 4: for it. You know, it fits his brand, Mad Max 553 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 4: gets the cyber truck. I could see him doing a story. 554 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 4: He's going to drive across the country in it, you know, 555 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 4: maybe take the kids slits of national parks. I could 556 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 4: see it. 557 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 2: I would also say Max as well, because yeah, because 558 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: he's he's just got that, he's got that desire to 559 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 2: be cool. Well, I I out in myself as not 560 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: a real truck guy. Also, this is correct and and 561 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: so you know, but that is, if there are enough 562 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 2: Max Chapkins out there in the United States of America, 563 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: this thing is going to be an enormous thing, isn't it. 564 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 4: What's what's that old like stereotype about men having their 565 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 4: midlife crisis and they buy is it a is it 566 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 4: a Maserati or a Ferrari? Maybe this is the new 567 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 4: Maybe this is the new midlife crisis car for a 568 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 4: certain kind of man. 569 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 2: All right, thanks for listening to Elon Inc. And thanks 570 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: to our muscologists, Dana. Max. Great to be here, Always 571 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: a pleasure. This episode was produced by Stacy Wan, Naomi 572 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: Shaven and Rayhan Harmansi are our senior editors. The idea 573 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: for this very show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples 574 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: handles engineering, and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. 575 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson, thanks a bunch of 576 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 2: BusinessWeek editor Joel Weber. The Elon Inc. Theme is written 577 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. Sage Bauman 578 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: is the head of Bloomberg Podcast and our executive producer. 579 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 580 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: it'll help other listeners find us. I am David Papadopolis. 581 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: See you next week.