Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim
Speaker 2: Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. I think this might be a
Speaker 2: first though. I'm looking at video of you right now.
Speaker 2: You have taken to the skies. I believe you're in
Speaker 2: an airplane. We're testing the limits of in flight Wi Fi.
Speaker 2: What's what's going on right now?
Speaker 3: Well, well, it sounds good on my end. Can you
Speaker 3: hear me?
Speaker 2: Sounds good, We can hear you, we can see you.
Speaker 2: So so far the test looks good.
Speaker 4: Is this starlink? Yeah?
Speaker 2: What are you using? Actually, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: Question. It's good Wi Fi though. That's all I can
Speaker 1: tell you. So it's uh, it works well and it sufficient.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad this is the first for you guys.
Speaker 1: But let's get to Project Liberty and the People's Bid.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get to the People's Bid, and I will
Speaker 2: not for people watching on YouTube and Bloomberg originals. You
Speaker 2: can tell the plane that Frank is in. It's not
Speaker 2: the typical plane that you take and board, you know,
Speaker 2: group ones one through twelve. Frank travels differently. So, Frank,
Speaker 2: we do appreciate you taking the time. Let's talk about
Speaker 2: the people's bid here, because last time you were on
Speaker 2: the show with us, you had not put out a
Speaker 2: bid for TikTok. Are you still going for it? And
Speaker 2: do you have the money?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're still going for it and we have the money.
Speaker 1: So it's we're we're plowing ahead. Every day it looks,
Speaker 1: you know, more and like we're leading more and more,
Speaker 1: like we're leading the path, you know, should the the
Speaker 1: US TikTok be sold, and we believe it will be,
Speaker 1: and we're all awaiting the judge's decision, which you could
Speaker 1: come out as early as this week. And you know,
Speaker 1: we believe the government's position is going to be upheld
Speaker 1: and by Dance is going to have to abide by
Speaker 1: that and and you know, shut shut down the app
Speaker 1: or sell it. And so we have been working hard
Speaker 1: making preparations to put ourselves in a position to to
Speaker 1: buy the app and move it over to a new
Speaker 1: protocol where individuals, you know, have owner control their identity
Speaker 1: and their data and they're not, you know, Surveiled twenty
Speaker 1: four seven.
Speaker 2: Why do you believe that the sale will still be
Speaker 2: required even though the President elect has said he doesn't
Speaker 2: want to ban TikTok.
Speaker 1: Well, we don't want to ban TikTok either, and I'm
Speaker 1: glad to hear him say that, because we don't think
Speaker 1: it's to be banned. And you know, there's one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy million people tim using it that enjoy using it,
Speaker 1: and uh, and we want to keep the TikTok alive.
Speaker 3: But he President hasn't said it won't be sold.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's well aware of the national
Speaker 1: security risks and uh. You know, Congress acted very quickly
Speaker 1: and in a rare moment of consensus, legislated that this
Speaker 1: this app is dangerous for.
Speaker 3: Americans and needs to be shut down or sold.
Speaker 1: And the President has said he doesn't want to see
Speaker 1: it shut down and and we, like him, uh, don't
Speaker 1: want to see it shut down either, and we believe
Speaker 1: it will be sold and no longer being in Chinese
Speaker 1: hands after this.
Speaker 3: Uh the court ruling.
Speaker 4: What problems with TikTok are you looking to solve directify
Speaker 4: through the people's bid?
Speaker 1: Well, the the reason why the Congress that's the legislation
Speaker 1: in the first place, is because they deemed TikTok a
Speaker 1: national security threat and you know, amongst other things, by
Speaker 1: bailing one hundred and seventy million Americans and uh, scraping
Speaker 1: their their data, their you know, their personal information, and
Speaker 1: also feeding them information that's favorable to the Chinese government
Speaker 1: and not so favorable to to to America or to
Speaker 1: the USA, to our democracy and and so forth. It's
Speaker 1: it's really a huge propaganda machine that is that is
Speaker 1: influencing lots of Americans, uh, you know, by feeding them
Speaker 1: false information about about an array of situations that are
Speaker 1: and the information that's fed is is amplified as a
Speaker 1: pro Chinese perspective as opposed to a anti American and
Speaker 1: by the way, anti American ones. So it's not a
Speaker 1: balanced platform. It's actually being used by the Chinese government
Speaker 1: to persuade Americans approach anti American positions. That's extremely, extremely unhealthy.
Speaker 1: And beyond that, it's a surveillance tool. And this is
Speaker 1: you know, this is very very dangerous for American and Americans.
Speaker 3: So with.
Speaker 1: By moving the TikTok user base onto the protocol and
Speaker 1: the platform that Project Liberty has built over the last
Speaker 1: five years, users won't be surveilled. They'll own and control
Speaker 1: their identity, they'll own and control their data, they'll be
Speaker 1: able to get compensated for the use of their data
Speaker 1: and they'll permission a cheuse. So it's just the opposite
Speaker 1: of a surveillance machine.
Speaker 2: Frank, have you who have you lined up to join
Speaker 2: you in the bed? Bloomberg Intelligence has said back in
Speaker 2: May that TikTok's US assets were valued at between thirty
Speaker 2: five billion and forty billion dollars, So who have you
Speaker 2: lined up to help with the bid?
Speaker 1: You know, we think we think that number is a
Speaker 1: bit high. But to you know, to be clear, we
Speaker 1: don't know what TikTok or byte dance rather will be selling, right.
Speaker 1: We don't know whether they'll be selling the brand or not.
Speaker 1: The user base is what we're particularly interested in. We're
Speaker 1: assuming they'll sell they'll sell that, Will they be selling
Speaker 1: the content and so on and so forth. We think
Speaker 1: that thirty to forty billion numbers is a bit high.
Speaker 1: We've circled over twenty billion dollars and we're prepared to
Speaker 1: move forward and we'll see. Maybe they'll be more sold
Speaker 1: than we're anticipating and that will affect the price. But
Speaker 1: we do know that the algorithm byte Dance algorithm is
Speaker 1: not available, and that has a huge impact on the
Speaker 1: value of us TikTok, and it depresses the value.
Speaker 2: That part certainly makes sense. Can you give us some
Speaker 2: names of individuals though, who've lined up to finance this?
Speaker 1: No, I'm not in a position to do that until
Speaker 1: after we hear from the judges, because all of the
Speaker 1: people that lined up and said, let's let's wait and
Speaker 1: see what that legal decision is and then and then proceed.
Speaker 1: So we're getting all of our ducks in a line,
Speaker 1: and we will be naming names at the appropriate time
Speaker 1: and the appropriate place. But we're going to take this
Speaker 1: one step up at a time. It makes no sense
Speaker 1: to put people just start throwing names around prior to
Speaker 1: this legal decision. But once this decision comes down, which
Speaker 1: we think is imminent by the way, then things get
Speaker 1: really serious.
Speaker 3: And that's when we are going to move very very quickly.
Speaker 1: And I assume others, if they're if they're interested, will
Speaker 1: as well. But we haven't actually heard of anyone else
Speaker 1: that's a serious bidder at this moment in time.
Speaker 2: Frank, if you're not if you're not able to get
Speaker 2: the algorithm, I mean a lot of people argue that
Speaker 2: the TikTok algorithm is the secret sauce. It's what it
Speaker 2: is what keeps people going back to TikTok over and
Speaker 2: over again and staring at their screens for you know,
Speaker 2: hours a day. If you don't get that, how do
Speaker 2: you know people are going to stay and use the app?
Speaker 3: The the.
Speaker 1: We have people right now working on alternatives to that,
Speaker 1: and and we just are believed very very strongly that
Speaker 1: a surveilling people, straping their data and applying algorithms to
Speaker 1: feed them information and manipulate them, take advantage of them,
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth is incredibly unhealthy.
Speaker 3: By the way, this is the same way that that
Speaker 3: that our own American.
Speaker 1: Made social media apps and so forth work, which we
Speaker 1: think is also very dangerous. But in this particular case
Speaker 1: there's also the added national security risks that I referred
Speaker 1: to earlier. So the way we're not interested in the algorithm,
Speaker 1: the technology we've built doesn't rely on the algorithm. There
Speaker 1: will be algorithms, there will be ads, there will be
Speaker 1: but it won't be top down targeting people and and
Speaker 1: surveilling people. It will be an Internet where people signal
Speaker 1: their interests, permission the use of their data, and are
Speaker 1: still going to be able to enjoy using the application,
Speaker 1: They're still going to be able to do all the
Speaker 1: things that you can currently do with TikTok shop and
Speaker 1: so on and so forth, and it just it won't
Speaker 1: be in an exploitive way. It will be in a
Speaker 1: way that empowers the user base. And by the way,
Speaker 1: we want to involve the user base in the ownership
Speaker 1: of the platform. And it's one of the reasons why
Speaker 1: we call it the People's Bid. I want to be
Speaker 1: clear there. I'm not interested in being the CEO of
Speaker 1: US TikTok, and we have a management team lined up
Speaker 1: and we have people lined up to go ahead and
Speaker 1: do this. We need to wait for the judge's decision,
Speaker 1: which we hope will be coming down as early as
Speaker 1: Friday of this week.
Speaker 4: Frank, you had mentioned US tech companies in US social
Speaker 4: media companies. I wanted to get your thoughts on AI
Speaker 4: and whether you think these comempanies in the US have
Speaker 4: a grasp on artificial intelligence and the rise of it,
Speaker 4: or whether you think it's really growing faster than you
Speaker 4: know what the biggest companies in the US can can handle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have great, great concerns about generative AI and
Speaker 1: larger language models with the current uh uh tech architecture.
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that generaty of
Speaker 1: AI is is a fancy name or a more powerful
Speaker 1: version of the technology we have right, which is a
Speaker 1: technology that accumulates personal data and which is which is
Speaker 1: the valuable data and applies algorithms which, by.
Speaker 3: The way, our AI and you know to that to go.
Speaker 1: Ahead and uh you know, exploit us right? And why
Speaker 1: on earth, knowing now that the Internet as design is broken,
Speaker 1: I mean we hear about the the.
Speaker 3: Harms every single day.
Speaker 1: Knowing that it's broken, why would we take the same
Speaker 1: technology and make it more powerful before fixing the pieces
Speaker 1: and parts that are broken and then benefiting from large
Speaker 1: language models generative AI and and all that AI offers.
Speaker 3: What what what Project.
Speaker 1: Liberty is against centralized generative AI. We're all for decentralized
Speaker 1: generative AI, meaning.
Speaker 3: A new better Internet.
Speaker 2: Frank chairman of McCord Global. This is Bloomberg