WEBVTT - Writing Your Way Through with Kristin Hannah 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.520 Hi, Catherine, Hi, Chelsea, how are you hi. 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.560 I'm very excited about our guest today because she's an author, 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.799 and all my friends up here are reading her books 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.959 knowing and anticipation that she's coming on. So this is 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.280 an exciting time, you know how I much? I love 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:19.120 authors and I what's going on? What's going on? Well? 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.800 I had a whirlwind week. I was in Deer Valley 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.520 skiing this week. I was performing and then I went 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.840 to the Oscar parties to put my get my dress 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.960 and my glam on. And my friends and Whistler are like, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:33.920 every time we see pictures of you dressed up, We're like, 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.040 that can't be you. That's not her. I'm like, that's 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:37.680 the real me. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.519 You do look nine feet tall in these column dresses, 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.440 you would look extrameline feet tall. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.159 I know yesterday I was skiing, I got these I 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.559 got this new ski off it sent to me from Bogner. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.120 Shout out to Bogner Skiwear, thank you for that. And 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.560 my friends are like, oh my god, your body, your ass, 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.440 your legs. I was like, keep it coming, girls. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.120 I am also loving all the outtakes from your Your 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:00.560 birthday is shut as well. Popping up up here and there. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.320 I'm like, damn, girl, you've been working out. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.000 Her niece really really got a lot of attention, and 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.200 I think she likes being in a baby beorn on 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.679 my back because she was just so chill and relaxed, 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:13.679 and I was like, God, do you love skiing as 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:14.800 much as your mama does? 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.640 Her legs sticking out. She was like in heaven. 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.360 She's like attacked. She looks like she's been taxidermid, which 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.480 is my type. But Doug, I just I mean, everyone 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.000 wanted to have Doug this last weekend. All my friends 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.440 and Whistler are like, who's taking care of Doug? Bernice 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.199 is popular too, but Doug is like other level. Because 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:32.920 I don't I have to keep you know, and I'm 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:34.240 trying to split them up so I don't have to 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.039 ask somebody to watch two of my dogs. But Doug 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.560 is ridiculous. Did I tell you about his diarrhea? 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:41.039 Yes? 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.320 You did? 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.679 Well, so now he's diaryiea Doug. 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.960 He's feeling better after his little say it's be He'll 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:52.760 still be diarrhea Doug in my heart forever. Hey, Chelsea, 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.560 here's a question for you. Was there a book that 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.200 everybody loved that you just could not get through. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.840 Yeah, a lot of books. Catch twenty two Midnight Children 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.000 by Sam and Rushdie. I could never finish that. I 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:07.960 didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. By 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.440 the third I was like, what, there's a man in 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.400 a boat I don't wear. So I didn't read that. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.040 But growing up, I think the most seminal book was 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.440 The fountain Head by Ann Rand. I read that like 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.119 three times. I'm not sure really what I got out 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.200 of it, but I liked it and I liked rereading it. 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.040 Uh yeah, fountain Head. That was a good That was 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.400 like an eighteen year old book. Yeah. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.600 Well, clearly you didn't get your politics from that, so 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:33.440 that's a good things. 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.240 No, I did, and I don't even think I understood 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.880 what I was reading, but I liked the idea. I 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.320 liked some of the ideas in it. And then when 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.920 I would read book discussions on it, I'm like, oh wait, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.360 I don't even know what happened. I was like, wait, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.640 my comprehension skills were not where they needed to be. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:50.400 Yeah. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.520 Yeah, for me, I was Pachinko and my mom like 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.240 loved this book. Everyone loved this book. But I just 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.840 I couldn't like lock In with the Carrick. So I 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.440 think I'm gonna have to watch the show of that, 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:04.520 because I've heard it's really really good. There's like a 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:05.239 series of it. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.040 Yeah, I remember reading Pichenko. I really liked Pachinko, but 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:09.359 I know, yeah, I tried to watch the show, but 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.239 I couldn't get into it. I don't like one. But 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.399 they make books into shows. It's one or the other 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.280 with me, not both for sure. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.560 All right, Well, we have an amazing guest today. Actually, 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.320 my mom and my mother in law are really excited 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:21.680 about her. 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.760 Oh yes, yes, our guest today is the best selling 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.400 author of The Women, The Great Alone, The Nightingale, and 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:33.760 Flyerfly Lane, Flyer Fly Lane, and currently has the number 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.320 one selling book in America, which is called The Women. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:39.200 Please welcome author Kristin Hannah. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:39.800 Hi, guys. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:41.720 First of all, she has the number one book in 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.040 the New York Times well pretty much every bestsellers list 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.720 and booklist is right now. Number one is The Women. 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:49.920 And you may know Kristin from her other books like 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.640 The Nightingale and The Great Alone, which Kristin, I have 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.560 to say that subject matter couldn't be less appealing to me, 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.760 and I could not put that book down like I 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.440 have sent that book. I sent two books out this 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.280 year as Christmas gifts to everybody. One was The Grade Alone, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.400 and then there was another book. And people, I mean everyone, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.440 all my friends in Whistler are all of them. We 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.360 just like referenced it all the time because it was 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:21.400 so painful, painful and traumatizing and beautiful and all of 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.680 the things that you're known for. So let's talk a 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.680 little bit about all your inspiration for these books. There's 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.040 a lot of common themes that you talk, you write about. 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.560 You write a lot about PTSD. You write a lot 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.599 about the war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two. 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:36.680 I think, oh no, no, the guy in Great Alone 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.200 was from he had PTSD from Vietnam, right, So what 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.320 made you so interested in that topic? 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.520 You know? I think, actually, Chelsea, it's because I was 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.880 a kid during the Vietnam War, and you know, it 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.640 was such a fraught time and there was so much 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.840 anger and political division. And I had a best friend, 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.479 you know, we were like in third grade, and her 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:04.200 father served in Vietnam and was shot down and never returned. 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.600 And so I've always sort of just remembered that and 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:13.120 thought about it, and we wore these prisoner war bracelets 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.120 where we had the serviceman's name and the number that 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.360 they were or the date that they were lost on 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.200 your wrist. And the idea was that you would wear 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.480 this until he came home. So I wore it for 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:29.320 decades waiting, And I think it just when I saw 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.119 how the Vietnam vets were treated when they came home, 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.280 it just really stuck with me. And you know, and 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.479 obviously we've had wars since then, but I just think 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.040 it's so important that if we're going to ask people 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.120 to go off and serve their nation and put themselves 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.920 in harms way for us, that we care for them 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.960 when they come back. And so I keep coming back 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.320 to this issue that means a lot to me. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.480 M Yeah, it is pretty it's a pretty embarrassing when 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.880 you find out what vets have when they returned, and 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.560 how many of our homeless population are vets who aren't 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.320 taken care of by our own government who they sacrifice for. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.360 It doesn't I mean, how do you look at it, Like, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.599 how old were you when the Vietnam War was happening. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.520 Well, let's see, I was thirteen, I think when it ended, 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.080 and so I was, you know, like in kindergarten or 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:23.960 something when it started. 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.440 Jesus, that's a long time. When you compare the way 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.479 we are now with everything that's going on in the 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.120 world now, and you think back to that time, what 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.800 strikes you in terms of this position our country is in, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.040 or the temperature of our country maybe. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.040 Well, the political division that we're seeing now and that 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.919 we were seeing, you know, during the pandemic and for 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.400 the last you know, several years, felt very much like Vietnam, 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.120 which is why, you know, I think I chose this 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.159 moment to write the book. But it was a very 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.760 different time because in terms of the political division, in 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.599 simplest terms, you could say that it was sort of 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.600 young versus old, and left versus right. And you know, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:12.120 there was this whole movement, the whole Flower power, Make 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.600 Love not War, you know, all of that kind of stuff. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:19.840 So the what we were fighting about was much I think, 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.440 much more philosophical. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:26.000 I mean, right, philosophical, same kind of divisions, but people, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.200 there's very it was very disparate like being in that war. 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.160 First of all, the way that our government lied to 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.640 us over and over again about what was happening over there, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.760 which I'm sure still happens every single day in our 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.320 country in whatever war we're in. We're being lied to. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.160 So that's disappointing. But in terms of like, I want 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.160 to talk a little bit about your writing process because 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:45.960 you're so prolific. I mean, I don't know. I can't 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.160 believe you when you DMed me and said have you 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.000 read my book yet? I'm like, you wrote another book 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.320 when I just got done with the last one. So 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.520 I want to talk about that because how do you 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.160 what is your process and how long does it take 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:00.640 you and what do you do you every day? 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.880 Well, so for you, okay, so we have to go 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.160 back a little bit. I started this career. I used 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.200 to be a lawyer, and I started this career because 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.600 I got pregnant and had a baby and wanted to 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.040 be an at home mom. So I wanted something that 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.560 I could do that was sort of for myself but 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.880 was at home, which meant that in the beginning, you know, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.520 I wrote during nap time, and I've just sort of 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.520 continued on and so for years I wrote a book 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.360 a year, and then a couple of times I would 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.920 take two years, like Firefly Lane. If I wanted to 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.880 sort of redefine myself, and I think when I reached 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:42.720 a certain age, I and with it corresponds to writing 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:47.000 The Nightingale. I started going three years between books. What's 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:52.160 weird about now is the books keep selling. I mean, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.360 like The Grade Alone. I mean it was out in 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.840 twenty eighteen, but people were still discovering it in twenty 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.760 twenty two. So it sort of feels like I'm having 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.280 another book instantly, But really, it's been three years. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.120 And did it hit number one? Was it very popular 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.600 when it came out or did it gain its popularity 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:12.839 after a couple of years? 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.880 The Great Elege So it hit number one, and you 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.040 know it was popular. Actually, you know, the Great Alone 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.960 popularity surprised me. I didn't actually because, as you point out, 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.319 it was a dark subject matter and you know, it 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.760 was it was kind of difficult. So I've been really 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:33.400 surprised that people have responded to both the beauty and 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.400 the harshness of Alaska and the sort of difficulty of 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:38.520 that relationship. 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:40.760 Have you you spent time in Alaska? 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.720 Right? Yeah. My family's business is sport fishing lodges, and 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.040 they have one in Alaska. They have a bear camp 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.040 and a fishing camp. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.080 Yeah, I guess you. I mean, I don't see how 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.280 you could possibly write about that, that aloneeness unless you've 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.200 experienced it. And when anyone wants to talk about a 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.320 loneeness or feeling alone, they need to read that book 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.600 and think about elast because that's when you're really fucking alone. 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.000 I mean, that is one of the most unfeeling back 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.600 drops I could ever ever imagine. Okay, so what's your 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:11.319 process writing? 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:11.440 Like? 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.000 Do you write every morning? Do you write it? You 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:13.720 write nap time? 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:13.880 What? 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:15.480 That's what you used to do? But I mean, are 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:16.800 you disciplined? You must be. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.559 Yeah, I am really disciplined. I mean it's a it's 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.600 a two prong thing. First of all, it's a job. 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.360 And you know, I remember like when I was a lawyer, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.040 nobody said, hey, do you feel like practicing law today? 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.280 You just went in and sort of, you know, did 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.560 your job. And so that's what I try to do. 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.280 And in terms of, you know, the writing process, I'm 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.040 asked all the time, well, what about when inspiration and 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.280 when you need the muse to show up and when 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.559 you need to be inspired? And I really find that 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.240 the mews shows up when I sit down, and you 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.640 know that if I go in search of it, I'm 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.640 more likely to find it. So yes, I'm very disciplined. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.280 I sit down every day. I write pretty much from 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.600 seven to four or how much with my husband and 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.880 you know, and then I write. And then what I 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.440 do now is I take months off where I'm not writing. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.840 So I you know, I work fifty hours a week 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.000 when I am writing, and then I'll take you know, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.280 two or three months off and travel or hang out, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:20.840 drink wine whatever. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.240 Yeah, I'm with you on that. There's a time, like 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.320 you know, to harvest, and then there's a time for 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.680 so you know, there's a time for planting, and there's 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.800 a time for harvesting. And if we don't, like as creatives, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.000 if people, if we're not filling ourselves up with real life, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.800 it's like then what we have? What kind of output 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.240 do we have? I'm with you on the three months off. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.560 I love taking my vacation time very seriously because I 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:46.200 need to experience things and you know, experience stories that 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.800 I can then put back, spit back out and regurg 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.880 you to it's true. And without that life experience, it's like, well, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.080 what you know, I think that is so important, and 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.840 people don't give, especially American culture. It's not about that. 0:11:57.960 --> 0:11:59.880 You're not supposed to be taking so many breaks. It's 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.040 out a hustle, hustle, hustle, But you can hustle and 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.600 also take breaks. Those two things can work together. What 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.439 happens when you find out you're number one on the 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:08.640 New York Times list. 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.880 Well, Champagne is sort of the you know, the first thing, 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.240 and I think almost it's a great sense of relief. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.079 It's joyful, obviously, it's exciting. I love all of that, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.959 but it's it's mostly just okay. So I think it's 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.319 probably the same for anyone, for you, for anyone when 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.320 you get reviews in when you realize that something that 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.640 you have poured your heart and soul in in private, alone, 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:38.120 behind closed doors for years is being embraced by people, 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.800 and for this book even more than number one. What 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.959 has been so huge is sort of the outpouring of 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:52.640 love and support and gratitude really from female and male 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.520 veterans and their families. And I can't tell you how 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.319 many you know, women have come up to me crying saying, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:05.360 you know, thank you for just reminding people that we 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.000 matter in the service that we're out there that we're 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.200 we're working, we're doing our best, and I think you 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.000 get to an age I'm certainly there now where you 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.600 realize that remembrance and gratitude matters. You know, you don't 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.320 want to do all of this in avoid whether it's 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:29.119 stay at home motherhood or your job or your creative process. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.319 I think we all need to be seen. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.800 Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I think that is the 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:37.560 one thing. I think that is the one thing that 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.040 you know growing up, when you're a kid and you 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.440 and you are seen. When you feel seen right by 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.600 a teacher or by your aunt or uncle and not 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.760 in a creepy way, that really does empower you. Like 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.280 if someone notices you and notices whatever you're good at 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.600 and is encouraging. I mean, being seen, I think is 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.199 the number one thing people don't feel right. When people 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.800 feel that kind of tenderness or aloneness or vulnerability, they 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.080 just feel like they're not understood or misunderstood. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.440 It can change your life. I mean one teacher coming 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.760 up and saying, I had a teacher in eighth grade 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.880 who said, you know what, you have a power here 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.520 people like you. You don't have to be so afraid 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.200 all the time, because I went to a million different 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.080 schools and I was always the new kid in the 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.280 wrong jeans with the wrong haircut, and so I tried 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.000 to be invisible. And you know, in eighth grade someone said, 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.000 you know, hey, you don't have to do that, and 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.840 it was really pretty life changing. 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.560 I had a teacher who actually passed away this last 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.200 week named missus Sheckman, and she was my third grade teacher, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.280 and I always was problematic and she would take me 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.360 on the weekends to her husband. She hear her husband 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.480 had a house down the Jersey shore, and she was 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.480 trying to help my parents. She's like, let me guide her, 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.400 let me help her. Because I was so full of 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.320 it and angst. I just wanted to be a woman. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.600 I couldn't handle childhood. I was like, this is so annoying. 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.840 And she would take me and she would sit with 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.760 me and just be like, do you understand You're going 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.720 to do amazing things in this world? Like You're going 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.760 to be incredible. But it wasn't at a time where 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.760 I ever thought that I was only eight or nine. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.600 I was like, well, yeah, whatever. I just couldn't And 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.080 the time that she spent with me, I can't remember 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.280 anything she said to me, but I know that feeling, 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.760 and it was I felt so cared for and so 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.200 special that she went out of her way to spend 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.760 time with me. That I will never forget that. And 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:28.680 I always think of that when I think of children, 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.560 you know, because I don't have a high tolerance for them, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:32.960 so I really have to pick and choose the ones 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:34.560 that I want to be around. But it is so 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.240 impactful to have that kind of influence. Now do you 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.080 mentor anyone Are you into that in terms of writing, 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:42.520 Like do you help other authors? 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.680 I do? I do. I haven't helped I haven't worked 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.840 with a lot of beginning novelists, but I work with, 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.040 you know, a sort of a big group of us 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.960 who all sort of came of age at the same time. 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.520 And there's something so powerful. I was going to point 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.160 out what you were going to what you were saying 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.760 earlier about children and being you know, mentored like that. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:07.200 It's especially important for girls, and I found, like with 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.600 the women female writers community, there was for a long 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.360 time this don't ever tell anybody what you're doing, what 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:20.160 you're making, what you're getting, you know, keep everything very competitive. 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.960 And so I've got this big group of female friends 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:28.320 where we share information now, and that's another thing that's 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.920 kind of life changing, is women sort of owning their 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:38.520 own ambition and coming together to share information that is 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:39.640 withheld from us. 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.800 Yeah, which also seems like a newer thing. Females supporting females. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.840 It's like we finally cracked the code and we're like, oh, wait, 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.800 why the hell are we listening to men tell us 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.200 to you know, they're the ones that are separating us 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.600 and making us so competitive. And it feels like a 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.120 recent thing where women are really showing up for each 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.360 other and understanding we're not each other's enemy. You know, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.440 we actually have to stick together and become the most 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:05.719 powerful version of ourselves. 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.880 Absolutely, and that's one of the best things I see 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:09.919 happening around us now. I mean, when I was a 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.800 young lawyer, there were very few you know, female lawyers 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.600 that were partners or you know, we're running the firms 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.639 or anything, and there was very little mentoring going on, 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.760 and it all felt very competitive, like there was only 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.080 room for one at a time. And I think we 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.119 have all learned how important it is to you know, 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.760 offer a hand to the people coming to the girls 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:34.960 coming up behind us. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:36.639 Yeah, you write, I mean there's a lot of female 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.679 friendships in the books. Obviously, there's always, you know, a 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.280 strong connection, especially in the Women and the Great Alone, 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.359 you know, that community in Alaska and the Nightingale, and 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:51.840 so that must feel important for you to demonstrate, you know, absolutely, 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.359 and that was something you know, Like I said, I 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.160 moved around a lot, so so childhood friendships are rare. 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.480 And I think it was until I was in college 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.359 and then a young mother and a young wife and 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.120 all those things where I really sort of understood this 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.240 truth that had not been sort of passed along to 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.160 me anyway for whatever reason. My mom died very young, 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.879 so maybe that's part of it. But this truth that 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.960 it is your girlfriends who will carry you through life, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.320 who will be there when you know, when the shit 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.840 hits the fan. It's your girlfriends that you call when 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.000 you feel like a bad mother. It's your girlfriends when 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.760 you want to celebrate anything that happens. And I think 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.920 it's so important because we come together, we witness each 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.960 other's lives, we are each other's support. In many ways, 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.080 we're soulmates, you know, with our best friends. And I 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.040 think that's kind of an idea that is, it feels 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:53.800 new even though it shouldn't be. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.560 I know, isn't that so weird? It's so within us 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.880 and in our DNA, like as a you know, we're 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.200 so maternal just by nature. We have to really unlearn 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:06.840 all of these things that have been kind of put 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.040 on us. How old were you when your mom passed? 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:10.720 I think it was about twenty four? 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.400 Okay, So how does that affect you? Being a mother? 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:16.000 Losing your mother at that age? 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.840 You know, it's hard. I mean it's really hard, and 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.520 then you have to rely on your dad. And my 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.399 dad was of course broken at the time as well, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.200 we all were, you know, she was so young, forty six, 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:34.280 and so at twenty four you don't realize how impactful 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.679 this is going to be because you are at that 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.919 age where you think you've got it nailed. You know everything, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.000 you know, you're the smartest girl in the room. And 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:47.760 so it wasn't until I would say, really almost forty 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.600 when it really struck me. I didn't know my mother 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.440