Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, Hi, Chelsea, how are you hi.
Speaker 2: I'm very excited about our guest today because she's an author,
Speaker 2: and all my friends up here are reading her books
Speaker 2: knowing and anticipation that she's coming on. So this is
Speaker 2: an exciting time, you know how I much? I love
Speaker 2: authors and I what's going on? What's going on? Well?
Speaker 2: I had a whirlwind week. I was in Deer Valley
Speaker 2: skiing this week. I was performing and then I went
Speaker 2: to the Oscar parties to put my get my dress
Speaker 2: and my glam on. And my friends and Whistler are like,
Speaker 2: every time we see pictures of you dressed up, We're like,
Speaker 2: that can't be you. That's not her. I'm like, that's
Speaker 2: the real me.
Speaker 1: You do look nine feet tall in these column dresses,
Speaker 1: you would look extrameline feet tall.
Speaker 2: I know yesterday I was skiing, I got these I
Speaker 2: got this new ski off it sent to me from Bogner.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Bogner Skiwear, thank you for that. And
Speaker 2: my friends are like, oh my god, your body, your ass,
Speaker 2: your legs. I was like, keep it coming, girls.
Speaker 1: I am also loving all the outtakes from your Your
Speaker 1: birthday is shut as well. Popping up up here and there.
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, girl, you've been working out.
Speaker 2: Her niece really really got a lot of attention, and
Speaker 2: I think she likes being in a baby beorn on
Speaker 2: my back because she was just so chill and relaxed,
Speaker 2: and I was like, God, do you love skiing as
Speaker 2: much as your mama does?
Speaker 1: Her legs sticking out. She was like in heaven.
Speaker 2: She's like attacked. She looks like she's been taxidermid, which
Speaker 2: is my type. But Doug, I just I mean, everyone
Speaker 2: wanted to have Doug this last weekend. All my friends
Speaker 2: and Whistler are like, who's taking care of Doug? Bernice
Speaker 2: is popular too, but Doug is like other level. Because
Speaker 2: I don't I have to keep you know, and I'm
Speaker 2: trying to split them up so I don't have to
Speaker 2: ask somebody to watch two of my dogs. But Doug
Speaker 2: is ridiculous. Did I tell you about his diarrhea?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: You did?
Speaker 2: Well, so now he's diaryiea Doug.
Speaker 1: He's feeling better after his little say it's be He'll
Speaker 1: still be diarrhea Doug in my heart forever. Hey, Chelsea,
Speaker 1: here's a question for you. Was there a book that
Speaker 1: everybody loved that you just could not get through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of books. Catch twenty two Midnight Children
Speaker 2: by Sam and Rushdie. I could never finish that. I
Speaker 2: didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. By
Speaker 2: the third I was like, what, there's a man in
Speaker 2: a boat I don't wear. So I didn't read that.
Speaker 2: But growing up, I think the most seminal book was
Speaker 2: The fountain Head by Ann Rand. I read that like
Speaker 2: three times. I'm not sure really what I got out
Speaker 2: of it, but I liked it and I liked rereading it.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, fountain Head. That was a good That was
Speaker 2: like an eighteen year old book. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, clearly you didn't get your politics from that, so
Speaker 1: that's a good things.
Speaker 2: No, I did, and I don't even think I understood
Speaker 2: what I was reading, but I liked the idea. I
Speaker 2: liked some of the ideas in it. And then when
Speaker 2: I would read book discussions on it, I'm like, oh wait,
Speaker 2: I don't even know what happened. I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: my comprehension skills were not where they needed to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, I was Pachinko and my mom like
Speaker 1: loved this book. Everyone loved this book. But I just
Speaker 1: I couldn't like lock In with the Carrick. So I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna have to watch the show of that,
Speaker 1: because I've heard it's really really good. There's like a
Speaker 1: series of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember reading Pichenko. I really liked Pachinko, but
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I tried to watch the show, but
Speaker 2: I couldn't get into it. I don't like one. But
Speaker 2: they make books into shows. It's one or the other
Speaker 2: with me, not both for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we have an amazing guest today. Actually,
Speaker 1: my mom and my mother in law are really excited
Speaker 1: about her.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, our guest today is the best selling
Speaker 2: author of The Women, The Great Alone, The Nightingale, and
Speaker 2: Flyerfly Lane, Flyer Fly Lane, and currently has the number
Speaker 2: one selling book in America, which is called The Women.
Speaker 2: Please welcome author Kristin Hannah.
Speaker 3: Hi, guys.
Speaker 2: First of all, she has the number one book in
Speaker 2: the New York Times well pretty much every bestsellers list
Speaker 2: and booklist is right now. Number one is The Women.
Speaker 2: And you may know Kristin from her other books like
Speaker 2: The Nightingale and The Great Alone, which Kristin, I have
Speaker 2: to say that subject matter couldn't be less appealing to me,
Speaker 2: and I could not put that book down like I
Speaker 2: have sent that book. I sent two books out this
Speaker 2: year as Christmas gifts to everybody. One was The Grade Alone,
Speaker 2: and then there was another book. And people, I mean everyone,
Speaker 2: all my friends in Whistler are all of them. We
Speaker 2: just like referenced it all the time because it was
Speaker 2: so painful, painful and traumatizing and beautiful and all of
Speaker 2: the things that you're known for. So let's talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about all your inspiration for these books. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of common themes that you talk, you write about.
Speaker 2: You write a lot about PTSD. You write a lot
Speaker 2: about the war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two.
Speaker 2: I think, oh no, no, the guy in Great Alone
Speaker 2: was from he had PTSD from Vietnam, right, So what
Speaker 2: made you so interested in that topic?
Speaker 3: You know? I think, actually, Chelsea, it's because I was
Speaker 3: a kid during the Vietnam War, and you know, it
Speaker 3: was such a fraught time and there was so much
Speaker 3: anger and political division. And I had a best friend,
Speaker 3: you know, we were like in third grade, and her
Speaker 3: father served in Vietnam and was shot down and never returned.
Speaker 3: And so I've always sort of just remembered that and
Speaker 3: thought about it, and we wore these prisoner war bracelets
Speaker 3: where we had the serviceman's name and the number that
Speaker 3: they were or the date that they were lost on
Speaker 3: your wrist. And the idea was that you would wear
Speaker 3: this until he came home. So I wore it for
Speaker 3: decades waiting, And I think it just when I saw
Speaker 3: how the Vietnam vets were treated when they came home,
Speaker 3: it just really stuck with me. And you know, and
Speaker 3: obviously we've had wars since then, but I just think
Speaker 3: it's so important that if we're going to ask people
Speaker 3: to go off and serve their nation and put themselves
Speaker 3: in harms way for us, that we care for them
Speaker 3: when they come back. And so I keep coming back
Speaker 3: to this issue that means a lot to me.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, it is pretty it's a pretty embarrassing when
Speaker 2: you find out what vets have when they returned, and
Speaker 2: how many of our homeless population are vets who aren't
Speaker 2: taken care of by our own government who they sacrifice for.
Speaker 2: It doesn't I mean, how do you look at it, Like,
Speaker 2: how old were you when the Vietnam War was happening.
Speaker 3: Well, let's see, I was thirteen, I think when it ended,
Speaker 3: and so I was, you know, like in kindergarten or
Speaker 3: something when it started.
Speaker 2: Jesus, that's a long time. When you compare the way
Speaker 2: we are now with everything that's going on in the
Speaker 2: world now, and you think back to that time, what
Speaker 2: strikes you in terms of this position our country is in,
Speaker 2: or the temperature of our country maybe.
Speaker 3: Well, the political division that we're seeing now and that
Speaker 3: we were seeing, you know, during the pandemic and for
Speaker 3: the last you know, several years, felt very much like Vietnam,
Speaker 3: which is why, you know, I think I chose this
Speaker 3: moment to write the book. But it was a very
Speaker 3: different time because in terms of the political division, in
Speaker 3: simplest terms, you could say that it was sort of
Speaker 3: young versus old, and left versus right. And you know,
Speaker 3: there was this whole movement, the whole Flower power, Make
Speaker 3: Love not War, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: So the what we were fighting about was much I think,
Speaker 3: much more philosophical.
Speaker 2: I mean, right, philosophical, same kind of divisions, but people,
Speaker 2: there's very it was very disparate like being in that war.
Speaker 2: First of all, the way that our government lied to
Speaker 2: us over and over again about what was happening over there,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure still happens every single day in our
Speaker 2: country in whatever war we're in. We're being lied to.
Speaker 2: So that's disappointing. But in terms of like, I want
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about your writing process because
Speaker 2: you're so prolific. I mean, I don't know. I can't
Speaker 2: believe you when you DMed me and said have you
Speaker 2: read my book yet? I'm like, you wrote another book
Speaker 2: when I just got done with the last one. So
Speaker 2: I want to talk about that because how do you
Speaker 2: what is your process and how long does it take
Speaker 2: you and what do you do you every day?
Speaker 3: Well, so for you, okay, so we have to go
Speaker 3: back a little bit. I started this career. I used
Speaker 3: to be a lawyer, and I started this career because
Speaker 3: I got pregnant and had a baby and wanted to
Speaker 3: be an at home mom. So I wanted something that
Speaker 3: I could do that was sort of for myself but
Speaker 3: was at home, which meant that in the beginning, you know,
Speaker 3: I wrote during nap time, and I've just sort of
Speaker 3: continued on and so for years I wrote a book
Speaker 3: a year, and then a couple of times I would
Speaker 3: take two years, like Firefly Lane. If I wanted to
Speaker 3: sort of redefine myself, and I think when I reached
Speaker 3: a certain age, I and with it corresponds to writing
Speaker 3: The Nightingale. I started going three years between books. What's
Speaker 3: weird about now is the books keep selling. I mean,
Speaker 3: like The Grade Alone. I mean it was out in
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, but people were still discovering it in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two. So it sort of feels like I'm having
Speaker 3: another book instantly, But really, it's been three years.
Speaker 2: And did it hit number one? Was it very popular
Speaker 2: when it came out or did it gain its popularity
Speaker 2: after a couple of years?
Speaker 3: The Great Elege So it hit number one, and you
Speaker 3: know it was popular. Actually, you know, the Great Alone
Speaker 3: popularity surprised me. I didn't actually because, as you point out,
Speaker 3: it was a dark subject matter and you know, it
Speaker 3: was it was kind of difficult. So I've been really
Speaker 3: surprised that people have responded to both the beauty and
Speaker 3: the harshness of Alaska and the sort of difficulty of
Speaker 3: that relationship.
Speaker 2: Have you you spent time in Alaska?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. My family's business is sport fishing lodges, and
Speaker 3: they have one in Alaska. They have a bear camp
Speaker 3: and a fishing camp.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you. I mean, I don't see how
Speaker 2: you could possibly write about that, that aloneeness unless you've
Speaker 2: experienced it. And when anyone wants to talk about a
Speaker 2: loneeness or feeling alone, they need to read that book
Speaker 2: and think about elast because that's when you're really fucking alone.
Speaker 2: I mean, that is one of the most unfeeling back
Speaker 2: drops I could ever ever imagine. Okay, so what's your
Speaker 2: process writing?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Do you write every morning? Do you write it? You
Speaker 2: write nap time?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: That's what you used to do? But I mean, are
Speaker 2: you disciplined? You must be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am really disciplined. I mean it's a it's
Speaker 3: a two prong thing. First of all, it's a job.
Speaker 3: And you know, I remember like when I was a lawyer,
Speaker 3: nobody said, hey, do you feel like practicing law today?
Speaker 3: You just went in and sort of, you know, did
Speaker 3: your job. And so that's what I try to do.
Speaker 3: And in terms of, you know, the writing process, I'm
Speaker 3: asked all the time, well, what about when inspiration and
Speaker 3: when you need the muse to show up and when
Speaker 3: you need to be inspired? And I really find that
Speaker 3: the mews shows up when I sit down, and you
Speaker 3: know that if I go in search of it, I'm
Speaker 3: more likely to find it. So yes, I'm very disciplined.
Speaker 3: I sit down every day. I write pretty much from
Speaker 3: seven to four or how much with my husband and
Speaker 3: you know, and then I write. And then what I
Speaker 3: do now is I take months off where I'm not writing.
Speaker 3: So I you know, I work fifty hours a week
Speaker 3: when I am writing, and then I'll take you know,
Speaker 3: two or three months off and travel or hang out,
Speaker 3: drink wine whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that. There's a time, like
Speaker 2: you know, to harvest, and then there's a time for
Speaker 2: so you know, there's a time for planting, and there's
Speaker 2: a time for harvesting. And if we don't, like as creatives,
Speaker 2: if people, if we're not filling ourselves up with real life,
Speaker 2: it's like then what we have? What kind of output
Speaker 2: do we have? I'm with you on the three months off.
Speaker 2: I love taking my vacation time very seriously because I
Speaker 2: need to experience things and you know, experience stories that
Speaker 2: I can then put back, spit back out and regurg
Speaker 2: you to it's true. And without that life experience, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: what you know, I think that is so important, and
Speaker 2: people don't give, especially American culture. It's not about that.
Speaker 2: You're not supposed to be taking so many breaks. It's
Speaker 2: out a hustle, hustle, hustle, But you can hustle and
Speaker 2: also take breaks. Those two things can work together. What
Speaker 2: happens when you find out you're number one on the
Speaker 2: New York Times list.
Speaker 3: Well, Champagne is sort of the you know, the first thing,
Speaker 3: and I think almost it's a great sense of relief.
Speaker 3: It's joyful, obviously, it's exciting. I love all of that,
Speaker 3: but it's it's mostly just okay. So I think it's
Speaker 3: probably the same for anyone, for you, for anyone when
Speaker 3: you get reviews in when you realize that something that
Speaker 3: you have poured your heart and soul in in private, alone,
Speaker 3: behind closed doors for years is being embraced by people,
Speaker 3: and for this book even more than number one. What
Speaker 3: has been so huge is sort of the outpouring of
Speaker 3: love and support and gratitude really from female and male
Speaker 3: veterans and their families. And I can't tell you how
Speaker 3: many you know, women have come up to me crying saying,
Speaker 3: you know, thank you for just reminding people that we
Speaker 3: matter in the service that we're out there that we're
Speaker 3: we're working, we're doing our best, and I think you
Speaker 3: get to an age I'm certainly there now where you
Speaker 3: realize that remembrance and gratitude matters. You know, you don't
Speaker 3: want to do all of this in avoid whether it's
Speaker 3: stay at home motherhood or your job or your creative process.
Speaker 3: I think we all need to be seen.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I think that is the
Speaker 2: one thing. I think that is the one thing that
Speaker 2: you know growing up, when you're a kid and you
Speaker 2: and you are seen. When you feel seen right by
Speaker 2: a teacher or by your aunt or uncle and not
Speaker 2: in a creepy way, that really does empower you. Like
Speaker 2: if someone notices you and notices whatever you're good at
Speaker 2: and is encouraging. I mean, being seen, I think is
Speaker 2: the number one thing people don't feel right. When people
Speaker 2: feel that kind of tenderness or aloneness or vulnerability, they
Speaker 2: just feel like they're not understood or misunderstood.
Speaker 3: It can change your life. I mean one teacher coming
Speaker 3: up and saying, I had a teacher in eighth grade
Speaker 3: who said, you know what, you have a power here
Speaker 3: people like you. You don't have to be so afraid
Speaker 3: all the time, because I went to a million different
Speaker 3: schools and I was always the new kid in the
Speaker 3: wrong jeans with the wrong haircut, and so I tried
Speaker 3: to be invisible. And you know, in eighth grade someone said,
Speaker 3: you know, hey, you don't have to do that, and
Speaker 3: it was really pretty life changing.
Speaker 2: I had a teacher who actually passed away this last
Speaker 2: week named missus Sheckman, and she was my third grade teacher,
Speaker 2: and I always was problematic and she would take me
Speaker 2: on the weekends to her husband. She hear her husband
Speaker 2: had a house down the Jersey shore, and she was
Speaker 2: trying to help my parents. She's like, let me guide her,
Speaker 2: let me help her. Because I was so full of
Speaker 2: it and angst. I just wanted to be a woman.
Speaker 2: I couldn't handle childhood. I was like, this is so annoying.
Speaker 2: And she would take me and she would sit with
Speaker 2: me and just be like, do you understand You're going
Speaker 2: to do amazing things in this world? Like You're going
Speaker 2: to be incredible. But it wasn't at a time where
Speaker 2: I ever thought that I was only eight or nine.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, yeah, whatever. I just couldn't And
Speaker 2: the time that she spent with me, I can't remember
Speaker 2: anything she said to me, but I know that feeling,
Speaker 2: and it was I felt so cared for and so
Speaker 2: special that she went out of her way to spend
Speaker 2: time with me. That I will never forget that. And
Speaker 2: I always think of that when I think of children,
Speaker 2: you know, because I don't have a high tolerance for them,
Speaker 2: so I really have to pick and choose the ones
Speaker 2: that I want to be around. But it is so
Speaker 2: impactful to have that kind of influence. Now do you
Speaker 2: mentor anyone Are you into that in terms of writing,
Speaker 2: Like do you help other authors?
Speaker 3: I do? I do. I haven't helped I haven't worked
Speaker 3: with a lot of beginning novelists, but I work with,
Speaker 3: you know, a sort of a big group of us
Speaker 3: who all sort of came of age at the same time.
Speaker 3: And there's something so powerful. I was going to point
Speaker 3: out what you were going to what you were saying
Speaker 3: earlier about children and being you know, mentored like that.
Speaker 3: It's especially important for girls, and I found, like with
Speaker 3: the women female writers community, there was for a long
Speaker 3: time this don't ever tell anybody what you're doing, what
Speaker 3: you're making, what you're getting, you know, keep everything very competitive.
Speaker 3: And so I've got this big group of female friends
Speaker 3: where we share information now, and that's another thing that's
Speaker 3: kind of life changing, is women sort of owning their
Speaker 3: own ambition and coming together to share information that is
Speaker 3: withheld from us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which also seems like a newer thing. Females supporting females.
Speaker 2: It's like we finally cracked the code and we're like, oh, wait,
Speaker 2: why the hell are we listening to men tell us
Speaker 2: to you know, they're the ones that are separating us
Speaker 2: and making us so competitive. And it feels like a
Speaker 2: recent thing where women are really showing up for each
Speaker 2: other and understanding we're not each other's enemy. You know,
Speaker 2: we actually have to stick together and become the most
Speaker 2: powerful version of ourselves.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that's one of the best things I see
Speaker 3: happening around us now. I mean, when I was a
Speaker 3: young lawyer, there were very few you know, female lawyers
Speaker 3: that were partners or you know, we're running the firms
Speaker 3: or anything, and there was very little mentoring going on,
Speaker 3: and it all felt very competitive, like there was only
Speaker 3: room for one at a time. And I think we
Speaker 3: have all learned how important it is to you know,
Speaker 3: offer a hand to the people coming to the girls
Speaker 3: coming up behind us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you write, I mean there's a lot of female
Speaker 2: friendships in the books. Obviously, there's always, you know, a
Speaker 2: strong connection, especially in the Women and the Great Alone,
Speaker 2: you know, that community in Alaska and the Nightingale, and
Speaker 2: so that must feel important for you to demonstrate, you know, absolutely,
Speaker 2: and that was something you know, Like I said, I
Speaker 2: moved around a lot, so so childhood friendships are rare.
Speaker 3: And I think it was until I was in college
Speaker 3: and then a young mother and a young wife and
Speaker 3: all those things where I really sort of understood this
Speaker 3: truth that had not been sort of passed along to
Speaker 3: me anyway for whatever reason. My mom died very young,
Speaker 3: so maybe that's part of it. But this truth that
Speaker 3: it is your girlfriends who will carry you through life,
Speaker 3: who will be there when you know, when the shit
Speaker 3: hits the fan. It's your girlfriends that you call when
Speaker 3: you feel like a bad mother. It's your girlfriends when
Speaker 3: you want to celebrate anything that happens. And I think
Speaker 3: it's so important because we come together, we witness each
Speaker 3: other's lives, we are each other's support. In many ways,
Speaker 3: we're soulmates, you know, with our best friends. And I
Speaker 3: think that's kind of an idea that is, it feels
Speaker 3: new even though it shouldn't be.
Speaker 2: I know, isn't that so weird? It's so within us
Speaker 2: and in our DNA, like as a you know, we're
Speaker 2: so maternal just by nature. We have to really unlearn
Speaker 2: all of these things that have been kind of put
Speaker 2: on us. How old were you when your mom passed?
Speaker 3: I think it was about twenty four?
Speaker 2: Okay, So how does that affect you? Being a mother?
Speaker 2: Losing your mother at that age?
Speaker 3: You know, it's hard. I mean it's really hard, and
Speaker 3: then you have to rely on your dad. And my
Speaker 3: dad was of course broken at the time as well,
Speaker 3: we all were, you know, she was so young, forty six,
Speaker 3: and so at twenty four you don't realize how impactful
Speaker 3: this is going to be because you are at that
Speaker 3: age where you think you've got it nailed. You know everything,
Speaker 3: you know, you're the smartest girl in the room. And
Speaker 3: so it wasn't until I would say, really almost forty
Speaker 3: when it really struck me. I didn't know my mother
Speaker 3: and I had to sort of go and search for her,
Speaker 3: you know, try to find her myself. And I did
Speaker 3: that the way I do ever every thing, which is
Speaker 3: through writing and so that's why I wrote the book
Speaker 3: Firefly Lane, about a woman who is, you know, dealing
Speaker 3: with breast cancer, because that was my best way to
Speaker 3: try to figure out, like, what did this look like
Speaker 3: from her side?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm curious at how it actually impacts your parenting,
Speaker 2: because you know that you're giving her something that you
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily get for that long.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what it does. I think always in
Speaker 3: the back of your mind is this idea that being
Speaker 3: a parent is really important, being there and showing up
Speaker 3: is really important, but also understanding I think that you
Speaker 3: have a finite amount of time and knowing sort of
Speaker 3: I guess the peaks and valleys that the relationship you know,
Speaker 3: will go through. And I just always try, to the
Speaker 3: best of my ability to never sort of do something
Speaker 3: that I think is across the line, because you just
Speaker 3: never know how much time you have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Wow, we're going to take a break and
Speaker 2: we're going to be right back and we're back with
Speaker 2: Kristin Hannah. I'm so happy to have you on the
Speaker 2: podcast today, Katherine. Do we have some callers we're going
Speaker 2: to give advice, Kristin, so buckle up.
Speaker 1: Our first email really just has to do with recommendations.
Speaker 1: Our listeners love books and are constantly asking for more recommendations.
Speaker 1: So Kathy says, my name is Kathy Quinn. I'm from Dublin, Ireland.
Speaker 1: I'm about to go on vacation and I would love
Speaker 1: a list of book recommendations. Kathy.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, So Kathy, you're not telling me what you
Speaker 3: actually like to read.
Speaker 2: So no, I tricky.
Speaker 3: There's a book called We Begin at the End by
Speaker 3: Chris Whitaker that I love. I almost always recommend Shadow
Speaker 3: of the Wind by Carlos Ruiza Phone And for a
Speaker 3: vacation read, I mean, Lessons in Chemistry is way too easy,
Speaker 3: so I will go with remarkably bright creatures.
Speaker 2: I have to say I agree with I felt Lessons
Speaker 2: of Chemistry. I felt like I was reading like a
Speaker 2: school book, like not a school book, and it was
Speaker 2: just too light and too easy. I'm like, no, I
Speaker 2: need it a little bit a step up, no offense.
Speaker 2: So I think Bonnie Garland wrote that, right Armus, Yeah, Garmus, Garmus. Sorry,
Speaker 2: it's a great book. But I also felt that way.
Speaker 2: And also I just got Belly of the Elephant. Loving
Speaker 2: the Belly of the Elephant.
Speaker 4: You guys.
Speaker 2: Have you guys heard about that book.
Speaker 3: I didn't read that.
Speaker 2: It's going around with my Whistler crew, so they gave
Speaker 2: one to me for my birthday. So I'm going to
Speaker 2: get into that as soon as I'm done with the Women.
Speaker 2: But I also would say to our caller, just the
Speaker 2: Great Alone is not ever going to disappoint you if
Speaker 2: you haven't read that. That is the best page turning emotionally,
Speaker 2: like you're so invested and you feel like you've been
Speaker 2: spun around the spin cycle and like an a laundromat
Speaker 2: after you read that, because you are have been through
Speaker 2: every kind of gamut of emotion and it's just so beautiful.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure many of our listens haven't yet read it,
Speaker 2: but the way that you ended that book was done
Speaker 2: in such a tasteful, non cheesy way and believable. Like
Speaker 2: I loved that, because sometimes when books have that kind
Speaker 2: of ending, they can go it's just too much, like
Speaker 2: it's like almost like a pad com Yeah yeah, and
Speaker 2: you're like, no, that's not real. But this felt just
Speaker 2: perfect everything about it from start to finish. It's just
Speaker 2: blown away.
Speaker 1: I'd see a couple of recommendations of things I've read recently.
Speaker 1: This is an old one, but I just finished Into
Speaker 1: thin Air, which is John Crackhouer, and he talks about
Speaker 1: being on Mount Everest during the deadliest year of Everest expeditions.
Speaker 1: I also just read Over the Top, which is Jonathan
Speaker 1: van Ness's first book, and I really loved that. It
Speaker 1: was really a lot more frank than I expected, and
Speaker 1: so that was great. But one of my favorites that
Speaker 1: I've read recently is The Square of Sevens. It's by
Speaker 1: Laura Shephard Robinson and it follows a woman in the
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds who sort of does some divination and reads
Speaker 1: cards for people. It's really really cool and exciting, and
Speaker 1: I will say there is something about the way you write,
Speaker 1: Kristin that I found myself, especially with the women, but
Speaker 1: also with the grade alone, Like you're reading, but you
Speaker 1: forget that you're reading it. You're just seeing it in
Speaker 1: your mind. You're just sort of like visually seeing this,
Speaker 1: experiencing the characters, and they're just there their Yemi reads.
Speaker 2: It's pure escapism. You're writing like it's really just takes
Speaker 2: you away, and which is what you want from a book,
Speaker 2: at least I do.
Speaker 3: But really as I'm writing, it almost feels like I'm
Speaker 3: watching a movie and transcribing it. It's so you know,
Speaker 3: fully formed in my head, and so I think that's
Speaker 3: why I mean, I hear cinematic all the time, and
Speaker 3: I think I am it's a huge you know, visual person.
Speaker 2: Has anyone bought the rights to the grade alone?
Speaker 3: It is actually in development for whatever that means. And
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers has just bought the women and it looks
Speaker 3: actually like the Nightingale may film this year, which is
Speaker 3: pretty exciting after you know, co and the strikes and
Speaker 3: everything that we've had to deal with.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's awesome. Congratulations. I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let's jump to our first caller here. Our
Speaker 1: first caller is Nicole and she is a wellness coach
Speaker 1: and writer. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing to ask
Speaker 1: you about writing. I'm twenty eight years old and have
Speaker 1: endured a lot in my lifetime and feel called to
Speaker 1: write about it, but I still have a lot of
Speaker 1: doubts if my story is enough. Last September I had
Speaker 1: a personal essay published in The Cut. I lost my
Speaker 1: dad on nine to eleven, and I'm still searching for
Speaker 1: who he was. Was the title of it. Right now,
Speaker 1: I'm in the final sprint of writing my memoir along
Speaker 1: with a group of female writers doing the same. I
Speaker 1: have about twenty five k words down. My goal is
Speaker 1: to hit forty K, but I can't help but feel
Speaker 1: stuck and resistant when writing the rest. I've been writing
Speaker 1: in no particular order, and I feel like my story
Speaker 1: doesn't have the needed beats to flow that other memoirs
Speaker 1: en compass.
Speaker 3: Ooh.
Speaker 1: I've been piecing together memories and scenes and lessons that
Speaker 1: stand out in my memory from the past twenty or
Speaker 1: so years. It's been challenging to capture a moment in time,
Speaker 1: so I include all of it. I keep reminding myself
Speaker 1: that it's just a first draft, but it doesn't make
Speaker 1: it any easier to sit down and write the hard stuff.
Speaker 1: Reading Life Will Be The Death of Me was a
Speaker 1: beautiful and soul crushing experience. As a reader, I admire
Speaker 1: how vulnerable you are surrounding the loss of your brother
Speaker 1: Chet and its impact on you. So my question for
Speaker 1: you is, how do you push past resistance and write
Speaker 1: about super personal, vulnerable moments from your life and childhood.
Speaker 1: What wisdom can you share from your experience writing previous
Speaker 1: books and the one you're working on now. Thanks so much, Nicole.
Speaker 2: Hi, Nicole, Hi, Hi. You're very lucky because we have
Speaker 2: a very big author on today. I'm Kristin. I'm going
Speaker 2: to let you go first because I consider you much
Speaker 2: more professional than I do myself.
Speaker 3: First of all, I find it extremely difficult to write
Speaker 3: out of order because you lose the connective tissue you
Speaker 3: of one moment to the next, and then you're trying
Speaker 3: to sort of recapture what you were doing before. But
Speaker 3: if you're writing what you should be writing, you're slightly
Speaker 3: changed in every single moment, and those need to progress.
Speaker 3: So I would say that first of all, and I
Speaker 3: would also say that everyone's first draft is terrible and
Speaker 3: frightening and difficult, and you're sure that it's not good enough,
Speaker 3: And the point of that is to sit down and
Speaker 3: to push through and get to the end, because really,
Speaker 3: only at the end can you look back with clear
Speaker 3: eyes and see what the best story is and how
Speaker 3: to tell it. You have to get all of that
Speaker 3: out of the way first.
Speaker 2: I agree with that writing out of order can be
Speaker 2: frustrating because you kind of lose your tempo, and then
Speaker 2: I always have to write chronologically. I started this book
Speaker 2: by just writing essays and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll put them together, and I'm like, no, no, I actually
Speaker 2: have to go in a time order. So I agree
Speaker 2: with that, and I also think, like, first of all,
Speaker 2: it's amazing that you're sitting down and writing a book.
Speaker 2: So patch yourself on the back for actually even taking
Speaker 2: on that task. You've set yourself up for success with
Speaker 2: a group of other women that are also doing the
Speaker 2: same thing as you. And your first draft isn't going
Speaker 2: to be the draft that you want, but it's just
Speaker 2: important to get just keep moving, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: towards your goal and keep writing and you don't get
Speaker 2: the answers, like you know, sometimes I'm writing something, I'm like,
Speaker 2: this isn't going to work with this and this doesn't
Speaker 2: connect to this, and then like sometimes in the middle
Speaker 2: of the day, it just pops into my head the answer.
Speaker 2: Because when you spend enough time being creative like that,
Speaker 2: creativity begets more creativity. So it's just like Kristin was
Speaker 2: saying earlier, you weren't on the phone yet, but when
Speaker 2: she sits down and she writes, you have to put
Speaker 2: the time in for that effort and then it does
Speaker 2: kind of all come together when it's supposed to. But
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to be perfect in your first book.
Speaker 2: I learned more in my first book and the editing process,
Speaker 2: and I'm on my seventh book. So just all of that,
Speaker 2: like sentence structure and thought structure and where this goes
Speaker 2: and times and places like all of that stuff. There's
Speaker 2: so much to learn in the editing process that you
Speaker 2: just have to know that that is going to be.
Speaker 2: I think for me that is the most important ingredient
Speaker 2: for anything I do, is the editing, whether it's my
Speaker 2: stand up, whether it's my books or being on TV.
Speaker 2: Like you always want to edit to amplify. That's what
Speaker 2: I always think. You don't need to have everything in there,
Speaker 2: but you can put everything down and then you go
Speaker 2: in and go, this isn't necessary, this isn't necessary, and
Speaker 2: tighten everything to make it just really like full, juicy
Speaker 2: and fast, you know, moving, moving, moving.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: To add on to that, which I think is absolutely true,
Speaker 3: the act of writing is, especially your own story, is
Speaker 3: so cathartic and so powerful and it changes you and
Speaker 3: just simply the fact that you undertake this and you
Speaker 3: write it you know, don't focus too much on is
Speaker 3: this publishable? Where will this go? What will I do
Speaker 3: with it? Just sit down and focus on the idea
Speaker 3: of you telling your story for you, and don't you think, Chelsea,
Speaker 3: it's just so powerful to do that and getting to
Speaker 3: the end is the crucial moment. So just keep going.
Speaker 1: Nicole, So you've written about losing your dad in this
Speaker 1: very traumatic way and you've published an article about it.
Speaker 1: Is that what you're finding the most difficult to write
Speaker 1: about or is it some of the other you know,
Speaker 1: connective tissue the other parts of your life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's kind of revisiting in it and
Speaker 4: continuing to revisit in revisions and just kind of constantly
Speaker 4: looking at it or thinking about it. Is like the
Speaker 4: process of a writer. But I also was diagnosed with
Speaker 4: leukemia when I was fifteen, so about ten years after
Speaker 4: I lost my dad, and that's kind of where the
Speaker 4: story begins. And then I'm going back in time a
Speaker 4: little bit there with how this relates to the philoss
Speaker 4: with my dad and how they all kind of come
Speaker 4: to get So he was wondering, when you're writing about
Speaker 4: these moments of grief and complicated grief, Like, how do
Speaker 4: you kind of structure or process you're writing so that
Speaker 4: you're not feeling that all the time or you're kind
Speaker 4: of getting back to the present.
Speaker 2: Well, I think in any natural like rhythm, you're going
Speaker 2: to be right. I mean I remember writing the Life
Speaker 2: will be the Death of Me parts of it, and
Speaker 2: I was bawling crying writing it. But like anything with grief,
Speaker 2: you're not sitting in it all the time. So you
Speaker 2: have to be very gentle with yourself, like when you're
Speaker 2: having those moments, have those moments. That's where the most
Speaker 2: beautiful stuff can come from, you know, deep pain and grief,
Speaker 2: and so allow yourself the time to sit with that
Speaker 2: and don't make such strict rules for yourself. Right, You're
Speaker 2: going to find your own rhythms about things. You're going
Speaker 2: to find out like when the best time of day
Speaker 2: is to write. If you haven't already, you're going to
Speaker 2: find out Okay, I just wrote this, and now I
Speaker 2: need a break to write something a little bit lighter.
Speaker 2: You're going to get into your rhythm. So just pay
Speaker 2: close attention to you. When you've had a really productive day,
Speaker 2: be like, okay, what was that that led to that
Speaker 2: productive day, you know, so you can really just keep
Speaker 2: cultivating the best habits for you and I'm not worried
Speaker 2: about it at all. For you, like this is the
Speaker 2: process and your first book is it can be terrifying,
Speaker 2: so it's just already bold that you're doing it.
Speaker 4: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, the balance between
Speaker 4: the creativity and then like you know, having to produce
Speaker 4: something too and having something you know, I want out there.
Speaker 4: But I think having less pressure and kind of figuring
Speaker 4: out what works for me is the process I've been
Speaker 4: on and I can lead into that more.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, well, good luck to you. I can't wait
Speaker 2: to read your book.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I really appreciate talking to everyone's day.
Speaker 1: Thanks to call.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Nicole, take care bye. She seemed like an author.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And when I first talked to her,
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, well, I you know, I'm a wellness
Speaker 1: coach and stuff and yeah, I'm not really a rite
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you are a writer. I
Speaker 1: was like that, you know, that's your day job, that's
Speaker 1: you know, you might have a nine to five.
Speaker 2: But it's just so funny that men will always say
Speaker 2: like that. You know, it's like we can't ever just
Speaker 2: lean in, like I'm going to be a writer. I'm
Speaker 2: writing my first book. It's you know, no, men have
Speaker 2: no problem. Yeah I'm an author before they publish a
Speaker 2: fucking thing.
Speaker 1: I wish like a we could gift to all women,
Speaker 1: like ten percent of the confidence of like a twenty
Speaker 1: two year old white guy who's just graduated from college,
Speaker 1: Like just ten percent.
Speaker 3: It'd be perfect.
Speaker 2: My nephew Max will start with your confidence.
Speaker 3: Perfect.
Speaker 1: Oh and I just wanted to add two for Nicole.
Speaker 1: We chatted about it. She has cancer free now, so
Speaker 1: she no longer has leukemia and she's doing great. So
Speaker 1: our next caller is Sarah. Sarah is thirty six, and
Speaker 1: she's here in La, she says, Dear Chelsea. Last year
Speaker 1: I left my full time copywriting job to pursue my
Speaker 1: dream of feminist writing. Since then, I've started a weekly
Speaker 1: newsletter that has amassed a pretty decent following and continues
Speaker 1: to grow daily. I've also landed a few big byelines
Speaker 1: on hot feminist topics, writing a book that uses some
Speaker 1: of my own story to highlight how evangelical Christianity and
Speaker 1: purity culture harmed millennial girls. Since it draws heavily upon
Speaker 1: my own experiences. My book will implicate people from my past,
Speaker 1: such as my ex husband, my old church, and, to
Speaker 1: my great discomfort, even my family. I don't want to
Speaker 1: use this opportunity to bash or hurt anyone, but I
Speaker 1: do want to be honest about what happens so I
Speaker 1: can help other women. How do I stay vulnerable about
Speaker 1: my experiences without undermining my credibility and looking like I
Speaker 1: have an axe to grind? I admire your candidness and
Speaker 1: fairness when talking about your own painful moments of the past,
Speaker 1: and I would love your insight. Sarah.
Speaker 2: Hi, Sarah, Hi, Hi, Hi. This is Kristin Hannah, our
Speaker 2: special guest today.
Speaker 3: So nice, Thank you, Hi, Sarah.
Speaker 2: So are you you're writing? Is it a novel? Are
Speaker 2: you making it fiction?
Speaker 5: No, it's it's kind of a memoir. Plus it's going
Speaker 5: to be kind of a deep dive into evangelical purity culture.
Speaker 5: And I got married at twenty two because of that
Speaker 5: whole ecosystem. So it would, you know, talk about generally
Speaker 5: how that whole y two k era harmed women and
Speaker 5: girls like me, So it would use my story, but
Speaker 5: kind of do more of a cultural deep dive.
Speaker 2: Well in the process. As Kristin can attest as well,
Speaker 2: you are going everyone is writing about themselves to some degree,
Speaker 2: and whether it's fiction or nonfiction, like we all are.
Speaker 2: And if you're going to write a nonfiction memoir, you're
Speaker 2: going to have to change the names and the people. Anyway,
Speaker 2: it's a legal issue, so you're gonna they're going to
Speaker 2: step in your editor and help you with that, because
Speaker 2: you don't have the liberty to, like, you know, tell
Speaker 2: other people's stories. Unfortunately. I know that because I've gotten
Speaker 2: in trouble many, many times. So you do have to
Speaker 2: kind of disguise everybody. I mean, you could still tell
Speaker 2: your story, you're just kind of protecting the people that
Speaker 2: aren't agreeing to be written about unless you can get
Speaker 2: their permission. So I wouldn't really worry about that, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, Kristin, you've probably to do that. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're writing more fiction, obviously, But what has been your
Speaker 2: experience with change when you're basing a character on a
Speaker 2: real person or on an experience in your life.
Speaker 3: Do you know what. I've actually been really careful not
Speaker 3: to include real people in my fiction to a great
Speaker 3: extent for this very reason. And since I don't do memoirs,
Speaker 3: I can't really speak to that. But it's it's interesting
Speaker 3: because I mean, maybe you know this Chelsea, if she
Speaker 3: calls it a novel and everyone is you know, fictional
Speaker 3: and it doesn't look too much like her actual husband,
Speaker 3: where is the line there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that that would be a better
Speaker 2: avenue for you not to have to worry about it,
Speaker 2: because once you fictionalize it, then you can color it
Speaker 2: with whatever you want, you know. I mean, you can
Speaker 2: do that in a memoir, but it's that's not really
Speaker 2: what a memoir is. But have you thought about making
Speaker 2: it fiction? No, But that's really interesting.
Speaker 5: That's a really interesting idea.
Speaker 2: Because then you can kind of just let it loose,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you could address issues that perhaps you didn't
Speaker 3: personally face, but you feel, you know, need to be
Speaker 3: explored and need to be talked about. And then you
Speaker 3: could use your personal story as sort of marketing and
Speaker 3: you know, and how to sell the book because you
Speaker 3: would bring so much to a novel as you know,
Speaker 3: as someone to talk to.
Speaker 5: Oh that's really interesting. Okay, Yeah, Well the first book
Speaker 5: I wrote was a novel, so I have experience doing that,
Speaker 5: so that that's I had not considered that.
Speaker 2: That's a great idea, Yeah, because it's like historical fiction
Speaker 2: what you're talking about. Yeah, Okay, well, great problem solved,
Speaker 2: I think, yeah.
Speaker 1: And I mean I am someone who went through some
Speaker 1: of the same stuff where like you know, youth group
Speaker 1: and purity culture and all this stuff that like, really,
Speaker 1: you know, I've found stuff rattling around in my brain
Speaker 1: decades later that I'm like, I didn't know that was
Speaker 1: still in there. A couple of books that I recommend
Speaker 1: to for anybody who did go through that, Pure by
Speaker 1: Linda ka Klin was something that helped me sort of
Speaker 1: unearth a lot of those things rattling around in there
Speaker 1: that weren't very healthy. And then also Kate Kennedy just
Speaker 1: wrote a book called One in a Millennial that's on
Speaker 1: the New York Times bestseller list at the moment, and
Speaker 1: it's a lot about uh, millennial culture, but also some
Speaker 1: of the religious stuff that maybe mess us up a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 3: So well, thank you both, Thank you.
Speaker 5: Nice to meet you both. I've been such a huge
Speaker 5: fan of both of you, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can keep us posted, Okay, Okay, we'll do by awesome,
Speaker 1: And if anyone wants to check out Sarah's feminist newsletter,
Speaker 1: it is called Reclaiming and you can find it at
Speaker 1: reclaimingthewsletter dot com. I kind of wonder too, Christ And
Speaker 1: I wonder if you you know, your career is at
Speaker 1: the point where one book feeds into the next, as
Speaker 1: far as like you have a following and this sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Is there any advice you'd give to beginner
Speaker 1: authors or writers as far as connecting with a publisher,
Speaker 1: selling your book, getting the word out there, maybe on
Speaker 1: social media, any of that stuff you work.
Speaker 3: You know, when you're a beginning writer, everything seems like
Speaker 3: it's about one book and how does this book sell?
Speaker 3: How does this book get reviewed? What happens? And I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm living proof that a career is made book by
Speaker 3: book by book, but also in the aggregate, and a
Speaker 3: book that failed, you know, ten years ago, can suddenly
Speaker 3: be on the bestseller list. And so I think the
Speaker 3: important thing is, you know, to just if this is
Speaker 3: what you want to do, if you want to be
Speaker 3: a working writer, then you have to make the sacrifices
Speaker 3: that are necessary to do that. You know, you have
Speaker 3: to find the time to sit down, you have to
Speaker 3: actually write. You need to find a group of people
Speaker 3: that support you because it's a lonely endeavor. And then
Speaker 3: you have to not give up. You know, you have
Speaker 3: to not let failure derail you. You have to not
Speaker 3: let anything push you aside and keep believing in yourself
Speaker 3: and your vision and believing that like I said earlier,
Speaker 3: the writing itself is the most important thing, you know.
Speaker 3: It's sort of if you build it, they will follow,
Speaker 3: you know, if you do your best time after time
Speaker 3: after time, and you get lucky, you can have a
Speaker 3: career or a job at this. But it will never
Speaker 3: be easy. And I don't know about you, Chelsea, but
Speaker 3: like every new endeavor, I think, can I do it again?
Speaker 3: Do I still have it in me? And you just
Speaker 3: have to battle that, I think, like we were talking
Speaker 3: about earlier, especially as women.
Speaker 2: But it's so interesting though, because you know it's like
Speaker 2: do I still have it in me? And I would
Speaker 2: argue that we get better as we get older, you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of creative Like I loved what you just said.
Speaker 2: It's book by book. It reminds me of that bird
Speaker 2: By bird By and LaMotte that book because somebody should
Speaker 2: write a book called book by books it's for authors,
Speaker 2: because that's so true. You think, you know, it's everything's
Speaker 2: writing on this one book, and it's like, that's just
Speaker 2: not the case. I've had very successful books and I've
Speaker 2: had less successful books, and it is an aggregate and
Speaker 2: it is it's like it's the whole collection, you know,
Speaker 2: So everything is just kind of a step when you're
Speaker 2: when you're a writer, it's like, this is your first book,
Speaker 2: and you know that there's going to be one after
Speaker 2: that and another one after that, and it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be the most successful book in the world for
Speaker 2: you to get another book deal. You know, all you
Speaker 2: need is your creative artistic intelligence and you're gonna figure
Speaker 2: it out. But I also think when when you have
Speaker 2: a clear vision about something and you can see it,
Speaker 2: like what Kristin what you were saying about when you're writing.
Speaker 2: I feel that way about things when i'm really like,
Speaker 2: I guess in your flow state. You know, when you're
Speaker 2: in your flow state and it's just easy and it
Speaker 2: comes to you, but you're very clear about where you're going.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like it's almost impossible not to succeed
Speaker 2: when you have such a clear vision.
Speaker 3: I think that's true, and it's long as Like the corollarily,
Speaker 3: I would add to that is what you said earlier,
Speaker 3: editing matters. You know, you can easily get to a
Speaker 3: point where, and especially beginning writers, where they just think
Speaker 3: everything is perfect as it comes out to them because
Speaker 3: they feel like they're in that flow state. And the
Speaker 3: fact is, you you know, you have to be an
Speaker 3: artist for half of the project, and then at some
Speaker 3: point you have to be a business person. You you know,
Speaker 3: you have to look at your work with really cold,
Speaker 3: hard eyes and try to make it the best. And
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that's great about writing
Speaker 3: in terms of for the long term is the more
Speaker 3: you change and grow, the more your work changes and grows,
Speaker 3: and the more you bring to the table. And that's
Speaker 3: I think pretty exciting to sort of watch yourself, you know,
Speaker 3: improve over time.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that is very satisfying.
Speaker 1: And kind of along those lines, I've read somewhere that
Speaker 1: you had the idea for the women like decades ago,
Speaker 1: but you didn't feel like you were ready to tackle that.
Speaker 1: Is there a way that you know when it's time
Speaker 1: to tackle an older idea or when you're ready.
Speaker 3: Well, when I first pitched a book about Vietnam, it
Speaker 3: was nineteen ninety seven, so I was thirty seven, and
Speaker 3: I had an editor who had been at Berkeley in
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, and she was a very smart woman.
Speaker 3: And that's one thing I would say, surround yourself with
Speaker 3: the smartest people you can and then listen to them.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's super important. And she said, you know, honey,
Speaker 3: you're not old enough and you're not good enough, but
Speaker 3: come back when you are, because it's a good idea.
Speaker 3: And in nineteen ninety seven, no one wanted to talk
Speaker 3: or hear about Vietnam, and so I just kind of
Speaker 3: waited and I kept it was almost like my Bellweather,
Speaker 3: like okay, am I old enough? Am I good enough?
Speaker 3: And I started realizing, okay, I'm now old enough. And
Speaker 3: part of that was motherhood. Part of that was seeing
Speaker 3: the world change around me. Part of that was understanding
Speaker 3: things about government and politics and American society that I
Speaker 3: could not possibly have understood when I was, you know, younger.
Speaker 3: And part of was leaning into risk taking and saying, Okay,
Speaker 3: I've done this for a very long time, and I
Speaker 3: am ready to fail if that's what it takes and
Speaker 3: this is my moment.
Speaker 1: And Chelsea, do you have thoughts on that as well
Speaker 1: as far as one part of your story when it's
Speaker 1: time to tell that going back to things that might
Speaker 1: be old or painful or no.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you just know when you're like
Speaker 2: you've got, when you've ready to drum something up, you know,
Speaker 2: you're like, I have output. I have enough now, I've
Speaker 2: collected enough new information that I need to get some
Speaker 2: ideas out there. You know, the book I'm writing now,
Speaker 2: I've had a more I was trying to like jam
Speaker 2: it in and jam it in and write and like
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, let me write here and write there,
Speaker 2: And it's like that's not a natural flow when you're
Speaker 2: doing that. Now, when I've been a you know, whistler
Speaker 2: for a month or two, that's when I get my
Speaker 2: writing done. When I could do it every morning, the
Speaker 2: first thing I do is get my computer and write
Speaker 2: for three hours. And half of my writing is editing.
Speaker 2: Like I'm always editing. I'm always looking through things again
Speaker 2: because I just I find that to be the sharpest way,
Speaker 2: especially for comedy, you need to have a good editor,
Speaker 2: and you need to be a good self editor. That's
Speaker 2: another thing. You know, people can get really married to
Speaker 2: their own ideas and thoughts. And when Kristen says, listen
Speaker 2: to people who are smarter than you, you know, I do
Speaker 2: defer to my editors every single time when they're like
Speaker 2: this isn't really working or I'm not somebody who has
Speaker 2: to be like, no, I need this, I need this.
Speaker 2: I'm very open to feedback, and I think that is
Speaker 2: a very critical you know, because some people are too
Speaker 2: open to feedback and they don't you know, they kind
Speaker 2: of lose themselves to the feedback versus being so obstinate
Speaker 2: you can't hear any constructive criticism. There's a nice place
Speaker 2: in the middle to find where you are open to feedback,
Speaker 2: but you still have an idea of where you're going
Speaker 2: and you're married to that idea and people can edit
Speaker 2: around that, but you have to stay true to what
Speaker 2: your vision is.
Speaker 3: So, Chelsea, how do you I mean, You've got a
Speaker 3: lot of creative pursuits going at any one time, right,
Speaker 3: lots of different avenues for your creativity. How do you
Speaker 3: balance when is the time for what? And when to
Speaker 3: lean in and when to take a moment and wait,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a you know, like a
Speaker 2: live wire. I just kind of I get in a
Speaker 2: good state, like a flow state with my stand up
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, you know what, I'm loving this
Speaker 2: so much. I'm loving the show. I'm going to extend
Speaker 2: it and do fifty more dates before I shoot my special.
Speaker 2: When I'm writing, if I'm only writing, then I really
Speaker 2: get into writing. When you have like too many plates
Speaker 2: in the air, I find that it diminishes some of
Speaker 2: your work. So I need, like certain I need to
Speaker 2: really focus when I'm writing. I really need to focus
Speaker 2: on that. I wouldn't be able to start a book,
Speaker 2: and so my stand up set is exactly where I wanted.
Speaker 2: So once that's an a plus, then I can move
Speaker 2: on to another.
Speaker 1: Endeavor like seasons kind of yeah.
Speaker 2: And I also am very good about taking breaks and
Speaker 2: really filling myself up with travel and culture and exercise
Speaker 2: and all the stuff that feeds your soul. You know,
Speaker 2: different people, and exposing yourself to things that aren't really
Speaker 2: that interesting to you a lot of the time, because
Speaker 2: you're going to find out that you know, there's so
Speaker 2: much to gain from, like going into a situation you're
Speaker 2: not that interested in, and you know, it's kind of
Speaker 2: how I feel about the grade alone. It was such
Speaker 2: a good example of nothing about that story is anything
Speaker 2: I care about, Like, I have no interest in that world,
Speaker 2: yet it's you know, because of the power of your
Speaker 2: writing and the story, it made me so interested. And
Speaker 2: I think of that as an example of being curious
Speaker 2: enough to go to a place that you're not that
Speaker 2: interested in.
Speaker 1: Well, let's take a quick break and I have one
Speaker 1: more short question when we come back.
Speaker 2: Perfect and we're back.
Speaker 1: We are back, So Joseph writes, Dear Chelsea, I'm an
Speaker 1: aspiring author working on my first book in a series.
Speaker 1: I'm writing a sci fi outer space saga that I've
Speaker 1: been creating for the past five years. It's taken a
Speaker 1: long time to write a good chunk of it, being
Speaker 1: as I work full time. I'm roughly fifty pages from finishing,
Speaker 1: but lately I've hit a giant wall blocking me from finishing.
Speaker 1: I know how I want the book to end, but
Speaker 1: I get in my head and in my emotions about
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome. How do you push past writer's block? And
Speaker 1: also what kind of environment best suits you for writing
Speaker 1: soft music? Coffee shop, dead silence. What's best for getting
Speaker 1: in the groove?
Speaker 2: Joseph, I like dead silence. I mean that's ideal, but yeah,
Speaker 2: what about you dead.
Speaker 3: Silence and no rituals? Like it's time, it's time to
Speaker 3: sit down, so I sit down. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily
Speaker 3: doing anything when I sit down, But like I said,
Speaker 3: my muse shows up when I sit down. And in
Speaker 3: terms of imposter syndrome and doing all of that, that's
Speaker 3: all sort of you know, that's all in your head
Speaker 3: and it's always there and we all have to deal
Speaker 3: with it all the time. And the bottom line is
Speaker 3: the only way through is to write your way through.
Speaker 3: You have to get the words on the page that
Speaker 3: you can then you know, turn into something else. You
Speaker 3: just have to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree, like I don't really have rituals
Speaker 2: at all. I mean I meditate every day, but that's
Speaker 2: a separate that's not for writing per se. But I
Speaker 2: find that that sometimes can even take up more time.
Speaker 2: Like you know, like if you sit down and you're
Speaker 2: in front of your computer or a legal power however,
Speaker 2: you write and you just say, like I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: here for two hours, you're gonna start writing stuff, and
Speaker 2: it might not always work or always be stuff that
Speaker 2: you're going to use. That's part of the process too.
Speaker 2: As far as imposter syndrome goes, it's like, that's not
Speaker 2: that original either. Everyone feels that way, so it's almost
Speaker 2: not even worth discussing because it's just part of the package.
Speaker 2: Everyone's just gonna feel like, you know, you kind of
Speaker 2: vacillate between that and then bounts of confidence and capability
Speaker 2: and we all feel that way, and that's just your
Speaker 2: voice in your head. And so the quicker you can
Speaker 2: get those thoughts through, the quicker you're going to be
Speaker 2: able to focus on your story and fill in the
Speaker 2: blanks that you feel are missing.
Speaker 1: I think even imposter syndrome like gets bigger the closer
Speaker 1: you get to finishing something too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the more you focus on it, the bigger
Speaker 2: it becomes.
Speaker 3: I would say too that Joseph, if you are fifty
Speaker 3: pages from the end, and this is this is just personal,
Speaker 3: so this may not be true for you. But if
Speaker 3: I get to a place where I'm fifty pages from
Speaker 3: the end of a novel that I've been working on
Speaker 3: for a long period of time and I cannot write
Speaker 3: those last fifty pages, the answer to the question, is
Speaker 3: in the pages that came before, there is somewhere that
Speaker 3: you have taken a wrong turn, that you have put
Speaker 3: your character in a situation that either lessens the conflict
Speaker 3: or doesn't lead inevitably to your confusion. So you know,
Speaker 3: you can push through to the end, or you can
Speaker 3: go back to the beginning and edit to take you
Speaker 3: back up to that moment. But most likely that's where
Speaker 3: your problem lies.
Speaker 1: That's really good advice, And this is really a question
Speaker 1: for each of you. Do you start with an outline
Speaker 1: or a skeleton for what you're writing or are you
Speaker 1: just like, let's go with the vision. I have an idea,
Speaker 1: let's go What.
Speaker 2: About you, Kristin.
Speaker 3: I don't begin a book until I have a very
Speaker 3: clear vision and I've done a lot of research and
Speaker 3: I know the story intimately, and then I sit down
Speaker 3: and write a completely different novel and just pray to
Speaker 3: God that I can get to a better ending than
Speaker 3: I had originally intended.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not an outline. First, my editors asked me
Speaker 2: for an outline about three times, and I just had
Speaker 2: to tell her that's not happening. I'm not an outlined person.
Speaker 3: I just do it.
Speaker 2: I need to just do it in my own way. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing about writing, and that's what's so
Speaker 3: empowering it. There is not one size fits all. I mean,
Speaker 3: you can get you can get information like this, and
Speaker 3: I think what happens is when you hear from other writers,
Speaker 3: you know what speaks to you, and you hear the
Speaker 3: information when you need to hear it, and otherwise it
Speaker 3: just collects in there. So the more you can listen to,
Speaker 3: you know, conversations like this, I think the more you
Speaker 3: can find the answer that you're looking for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. Well, christ and Hannah, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what a delight. I love you and it was so
Speaker 2: nice to meet you. I hope I see you again
Speaker 2: in person sometimes, I.
Speaker 3: Hope so, I would love to. This was really great.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and congrats on all of your
Speaker 2: earned success.
Speaker 3: It's pretty great. It's been a good week.
Speaker 2: Yes, congrats, that's congrats.
Speaker 3: All right, and good luck with the book you're working on.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you all right, take care of you guys,
Speaker 2: Take care.
Speaker 1: Ay, but thanks Kristen.
Speaker 2: Okay, So, Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is
Speaker 2: my game. Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I misspoke. I have added more shows. I added a
Speaker 2: second show in Vancouver, so I have two shows in
Speaker 2: Vancouver March twenty ninth March thirtieth. Then I've added another
Speaker 2: show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth, so i have
Speaker 2: two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth. For other
Speaker 2: shows in Australia and New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.
Speaker 2: And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on
Speaker 2: May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which is May fourth,
Speaker 2: and then I'll be at the YouTube Theater May eleventh
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles with Matteo Lane and Vanessa Gonzalez and
Speaker 2: Fortune Fiemester and Sam Jay. Those are my updates and
Speaker 2: more shows are coming, so pay attention.
Speaker 1: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
Speaker 1: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
Speaker 1: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and
Speaker 1: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
Speaker 1: com