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Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, Hi, Chelsea, how are you hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited about our guest today because she's an author,

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Speaker 2: and all my friends up here are reading her books

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Speaker 2: knowing and anticipation that she's coming on. So this is

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Speaker 2: an exciting time, you know how I much? I love

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Speaker 2: authors and I what's going on? What's going on? Well?

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Speaker 2: I had a whirlwind week. I was in Deer Valley

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Speaker 2: skiing this week. I was performing and then I went

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Speaker 2: to the Oscar parties to put my get my dress

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Speaker 2: and my glam on. And my friends and Whistler are like,

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Speaker 2: every time we see pictures of you dressed up, We're like,

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Speaker 2: that can't be you. That's not her. I'm like, that's

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Speaker 2: the real me.

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Speaker 1: You do look nine feet tall in these column dresses,

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Speaker 1: you would look extrameline feet tall.

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Speaker 2: I know yesterday I was skiing, I got these I

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Speaker 2: got this new ski off it sent to me from Bogner.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to Bogner Skiwear, thank you for that. And

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Speaker 2: my friends are like, oh my god, your body, your ass,

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Speaker 2: your legs. I was like, keep it coming, girls.

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Speaker 1: I am also loving all the outtakes from your Your

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Speaker 1: birthday is shut as well. Popping up up here and there.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, girl, you've been working out.

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Speaker 2: Her niece really really got a lot of attention, and

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Speaker 2: I think she likes being in a baby beorn on

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Speaker 2: my back because she was just so chill and relaxed,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, God, do you love skiing as

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Speaker 2: much as your mama does?

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Speaker 1: Her legs sticking out. She was like in heaven.

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Speaker 2: She's like attacked. She looks like she's been taxidermid, which

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Speaker 2: is my type. But Doug, I just I mean, everyone

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Speaker 2: wanted to have Doug this last weekend. All my friends

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Speaker 2: and Whistler are like, who's taking care of Doug? Bernice

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Speaker 2: is popular too, but Doug is like other level. Because

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Speaker 2: I don't I have to keep you know, and I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to split them up so I don't have to

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Speaker 2: ask somebody to watch two of my dogs. But Doug

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Speaker 2: is ridiculous. Did I tell you about his diarrhea?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: You did?

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Speaker 2: Well, so now he's diaryiea Doug.

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Speaker 1: He's feeling better after his little say it's be He'll

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Speaker 1: still be diarrhea Doug in my heart forever. Hey, Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: here's a question for you. Was there a book that

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Speaker 1: everybody loved that you just could not get through.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of books. Catch twenty two Midnight Children

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Speaker 2: by Sam and Rushdie. I could never finish that. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. By

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Speaker 2: the third I was like, what, there's a man in

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Speaker 2: a boat I don't wear. So I didn't read that.

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Speaker 2: But growing up, I think the most seminal book was

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Speaker 2: The fountain Head by Ann Rand. I read that like

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Speaker 2: three times. I'm not sure really what I got out

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Speaker 2: of it, but I liked it and I liked rereading it.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, fountain Head. That was a good That was

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Speaker 2: like an eighteen year old book. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, clearly you didn't get your politics from that, so

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Speaker 1: that's a good things.

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Speaker 2: No, I did, and I don't even think I understood

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Speaker 2: what I was reading, but I liked the idea. I

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Speaker 2: liked some of the ideas in it. And then when

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Speaker 2: I would read book discussions on it, I'm like, oh wait,

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what happened. I was like, wait,

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Speaker 2: my comprehension skills were not where they needed to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, I was Pachinko and my mom like

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Speaker 1: loved this book. Everyone loved this book. But I just

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Speaker 1: I couldn't like lock In with the Carrick. So I

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Speaker 1: think I'm gonna have to watch the show of that,

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Speaker 1: because I've heard it's really really good. There's like a

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Speaker 1: series of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember reading Pichenko. I really liked Pachinko, but

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Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I tried to watch the show, but

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Speaker 2: I couldn't get into it. I don't like one. But

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Speaker 2: they make books into shows. It's one or the other

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Speaker 2: with me, not both for sure.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, we have an amazing guest today. Actually,

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Speaker 1: my mom and my mother in law are really excited

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Speaker 1: about her.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, our guest today is the best selling

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Speaker 2: author of The Women, The Great Alone, The Nightingale, and

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Speaker 2: Flyerfly Lane, Flyer Fly Lane, and currently has the number

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Speaker 2: one selling book in America, which is called The Women.

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Speaker 2: Please welcome author Kristin Hannah.

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Speaker 3: Hi, guys.

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Speaker 2: First of all, she has the number one book in

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Speaker 2: the New York Times well pretty much every bestsellers list

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Speaker 2: and booklist is right now. Number one is The Women.

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Speaker 2: And you may know Kristin from her other books like

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Speaker 2: The Nightingale and The Great Alone, which Kristin, I have

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Speaker 2: to say that subject matter couldn't be less appealing to me,

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Speaker 2: and I could not put that book down like I

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Speaker 2: have sent that book. I sent two books out this

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Speaker 2: year as Christmas gifts to everybody. One was The Grade Alone,

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Speaker 2: and then there was another book. And people, I mean everyone,

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Speaker 2: all my friends in Whistler are all of them. We

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Speaker 2: just like referenced it all the time because it was

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Speaker 2: so painful, painful and traumatizing and beautiful and all of

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Speaker 2: the things that you're known for. So let's talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about all your inspiration for these books. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of common themes that you talk, you write about.

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Speaker 2: You write a lot about PTSD. You write a lot

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Speaker 2: about the war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two.

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Speaker 2: I think, oh no, no, the guy in Great Alone

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Speaker 2: was from he had PTSD from Vietnam, right, So what

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Speaker 2: made you so interested in that topic?

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Speaker 3: You know? I think, actually, Chelsea, it's because I was

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Speaker 3: a kid during the Vietnam War, and you know, it

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Speaker 3: was such a fraught time and there was so much

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Speaker 3: anger and political division. And I had a best friend,

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Speaker 3: you know, we were like in third grade, and her

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Speaker 3: father served in Vietnam and was shot down and never returned.

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Speaker 3: And so I've always sort of just remembered that and

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Speaker 3: thought about it, and we wore these prisoner war bracelets

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Speaker 3: where we had the serviceman's name and the number that

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Speaker 3: they were or the date that they were lost on

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Speaker 3: your wrist. And the idea was that you would wear

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Speaker 3: this until he came home. So I wore it for

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Speaker 3: decades waiting, And I think it just when I saw

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Speaker 3: how the Vietnam vets were treated when they came home,

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Speaker 3: it just really stuck with me. And you know, and

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Speaker 3: obviously we've had wars since then, but I just think

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Speaker 3: it's so important that if we're going to ask people

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Speaker 3: to go off and serve their nation and put themselves

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Speaker 3: in harms way for us, that we care for them

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Speaker 3: when they come back. And so I keep coming back

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Speaker 3: to this issue that means a lot to me.

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Speaker 2: M Yeah, it is pretty it's a pretty embarrassing when

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Speaker 2: you find out what vets have when they returned, and

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Speaker 2: how many of our homeless population are vets who aren't

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Speaker 2: taken care of by our own government who they sacrifice for.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't I mean, how do you look at it, Like,

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Speaker 2: how old were you when the Vietnam War was happening.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's see, I was thirteen, I think when it ended,

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Speaker 3: and so I was, you know, like in kindergarten or

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Speaker 3: something when it started.

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Speaker 2: Jesus, that's a long time. When you compare the way

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Speaker 2: we are now with everything that's going on in the

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Speaker 2: world now, and you think back to that time, what

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Speaker 2: strikes you in terms of this position our country is in,

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Speaker 2: or the temperature of our country maybe.

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Speaker 3: Well, the political division that we're seeing now and that

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Speaker 3: we were seeing, you know, during the pandemic and for

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Speaker 3: the last you know, several years, felt very much like Vietnam,

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Speaker 3: which is why, you know, I think I chose this

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Speaker 3: moment to write the book. But it was a very

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Speaker 3: different time because in terms of the political division, in

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Speaker 3: simplest terms, you could say that it was sort of

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Speaker 3: young versus old, and left versus right. And you know,

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Speaker 3: there was this whole movement, the whole Flower power, Make

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Speaker 3: Love not War, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So the what we were fighting about was much I think,

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Speaker 3: much more philosophical.

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Speaker 2: I mean, right, philosophical, same kind of divisions, but people,

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Speaker 2: there's very it was very disparate like being in that war.

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Speaker 2: First of all, the way that our government lied to

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Speaker 2: us over and over again about what was happening over there,

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Speaker 2: which I'm sure still happens every single day in our

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Speaker 2: country in whatever war we're in. We're being lied to.

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Speaker 2: So that's disappointing. But in terms of like, I want

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Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about your writing process because

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Speaker 2: you're so prolific. I mean, I don't know. I can't

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Speaker 2: believe you when you DMed me and said have you

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Speaker 2: read my book yet? I'm like, you wrote another book

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Speaker 2: when I just got done with the last one. So

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about that because how do you

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Speaker 2: what is your process and how long does it take

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Speaker 2: you and what do you do you every day?

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Speaker 3: Well, so for you, okay, so we have to go

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Speaker 3: back a little bit. I started this career. I used

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Speaker 3: to be a lawyer, and I started this career because

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Speaker 3: I got pregnant and had a baby and wanted to

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Speaker 3: be an at home mom. So I wanted something that

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Speaker 3: I could do that was sort of for myself but

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Speaker 3: was at home, which meant that in the beginning, you know,

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Speaker 3: I wrote during nap time, and I've just sort of

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Speaker 3: continued on and so for years I wrote a book

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Speaker 3: a year, and then a couple of times I would

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Speaker 3: take two years, like Firefly Lane. If I wanted to

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Speaker 3: sort of redefine myself, and I think when I reached

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Speaker 3: a certain age, I and with it corresponds to writing

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Speaker 3: The Nightingale. I started going three years between books. What's

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Speaker 3: weird about now is the books keep selling. I mean,

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Speaker 3: like The Grade Alone. I mean it was out in

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, but people were still discovering it in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two. So it sort of feels like I'm having

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Speaker 3: another book instantly, But really, it's been three years.

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Speaker 2: And did it hit number one? Was it very popular

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Speaker 2: when it came out or did it gain its popularity

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Speaker 2: after a couple of years?

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Speaker 3: The Great Elege So it hit number one, and you

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Speaker 3: know it was popular. Actually, you know, the Great Alone

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Speaker 3: popularity surprised me. I didn't actually because, as you point out,

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Speaker 3: it was a dark subject matter and you know, it

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Speaker 3: was it was kind of difficult. So I've been really

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Speaker 3: surprised that people have responded to both the beauty and

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Speaker 3: the harshness of Alaska and the sort of difficulty of

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Speaker 3: that relationship.

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Speaker 2: Have you you spent time in Alaska?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah. My family's business is sport fishing lodges, and

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Speaker 3: they have one in Alaska. They have a bear camp

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Speaker 3: and a fishing camp.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you. I mean, I don't see how

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Speaker 2: you could possibly write about that, that aloneeness unless you've

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Speaker 2: experienced it. And when anyone wants to talk about a

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Speaker 2: loneeness or feeling alone, they need to read that book

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Speaker 2: and think about elast because that's when you're really fucking alone.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that is one of the most unfeeling back

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Speaker 2: drops I could ever ever imagine. Okay, so what's your

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Speaker 2: process writing?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: Do you write every morning? Do you write it? You

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Speaker 2: write nap time?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 2: That's what you used to do? But I mean, are

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Speaker 2: you disciplined? You must be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I am really disciplined. I mean it's a it's

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Speaker 3: a two prong thing. First of all, it's a job.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I remember like when I was a lawyer,

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Speaker 3: nobody said, hey, do you feel like practicing law today?

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Speaker 3: You just went in and sort of, you know, did

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Speaker 3: your job. And so that's what I try to do.

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Speaker 3: And in terms of, you know, the writing process, I'm

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Speaker 3: asked all the time, well, what about when inspiration and

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Speaker 3: when you need the muse to show up and when

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Speaker 3: you need to be inspired? And I really find that

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Speaker 3: the mews shows up when I sit down, and you

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Speaker 3: know that if I go in search of it, I'm

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Speaker 3: more likely to find it. So yes, I'm very disciplined.

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Speaker 3: I sit down every day. I write pretty much from

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Speaker 3: seven to four or how much with my husband and

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Speaker 3: you know, and then I write. And then what I

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Speaker 3: do now is I take months off where I'm not writing.

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Speaker 3: So I you know, I work fifty hours a week

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Speaker 3: when I am writing, and then I'll take you know,

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Speaker 3: two or three months off and travel or hang out,

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Speaker 3: drink wine whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that. There's a time, like

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Speaker 2: you know, to harvest, and then there's a time for

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Speaker 2: so you know, there's a time for planting, and there's

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Speaker 2: a time for harvesting. And if we don't, like as creatives,

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Speaker 2: if people, if we're not filling ourselves up with real life,

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Speaker 2: it's like then what we have? What kind of output

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Speaker 2: do we have? I'm with you on the three months off.

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Speaker 2: I love taking my vacation time very seriously because I

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Speaker 2: need to experience things and you know, experience stories that

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Speaker 2: I can then put back, spit back out and regurg

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Speaker 2: you to it's true. And without that life experience, it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: what you know, I think that is so important, and

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Speaker 2: people don't give, especially American culture. It's not about that.

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Speaker 2: You're not supposed to be taking so many breaks. It's

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Speaker 2: out a hustle, hustle, hustle, But you can hustle and

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Speaker 2: also take breaks. Those two things can work together. What

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Speaker 2: happens when you find out you're number one on the

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Speaker 2: New York Times list.

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Speaker 3: Well, Champagne is sort of the you know, the first thing,

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Speaker 3: and I think almost it's a great sense of relief.

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Speaker 3: It's joyful, obviously, it's exciting. I love all of that,

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Speaker 3: but it's it's mostly just okay. So I think it's

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Speaker 3: probably the same for anyone, for you, for anyone when

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Speaker 3: you get reviews in when you realize that something that

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Speaker 3: you have poured your heart and soul in in private, alone,

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Speaker 3: behind closed doors for years is being embraced by people,

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Speaker 3: and for this book even more than number one. What

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Speaker 3: has been so huge is sort of the outpouring of

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Speaker 3: love and support and gratitude really from female and male

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Speaker 3: veterans and their families. And I can't tell you how

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Speaker 3: many you know, women have come up to me crying saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, thank you for just reminding people that we

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Speaker 3: matter in the service that we're out there that we're

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Speaker 3: we're working, we're doing our best, and I think you

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Speaker 3: get to an age I'm certainly there now where you

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Speaker 3: realize that remembrance and gratitude matters. You know, you don't

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Speaker 3: want to do all of this in avoid whether it's

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Speaker 3: stay at home motherhood or your job or your creative process.

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Speaker 3: I think we all need to be seen.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I think that is the

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Speaker 2: one thing. I think that is the one thing that

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Speaker 2: you know growing up, when you're a kid and you

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Speaker 2: and you are seen. When you feel seen right by

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Speaker 2: a teacher or by your aunt or uncle and not

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Speaker 2: in a creepy way, that really does empower you. Like

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Speaker 2: if someone notices you and notices whatever you're good at

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Speaker 2: and is encouraging. I mean, being seen, I think is

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Speaker 2: the number one thing people don't feel right. When people

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Speaker 2: feel that kind of tenderness or aloneness or vulnerability, they

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Speaker 2: just feel like they're not understood or misunderstood.

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Speaker 3: It can change your life. I mean one teacher coming

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Speaker 3: up and saying, I had a teacher in eighth grade

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Speaker 3: who said, you know what, you have a power here

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Speaker 3: people like you. You don't have to be so afraid

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Speaker 3: all the time, because I went to a million different

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Speaker 3: schools and I was always the new kid in the

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Speaker 3: wrong jeans with the wrong haircut, and so I tried

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Speaker 3: to be invisible. And you know, in eighth grade someone said,

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Speaker 3: you know, hey, you don't have to do that, and

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Speaker 3: it was really pretty life changing.

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Speaker 2: I had a teacher who actually passed away this last

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Speaker 2: week named missus Sheckman, and she was my third grade teacher,

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Speaker 2: and I always was problematic and she would take me

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Speaker 2: on the weekends to her husband. She hear her husband

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Speaker 2: had a house down the Jersey shore, and she was

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Speaker 2: trying to help my parents. She's like, let me guide her,

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Speaker 2: let me help her. Because I was so full of

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Speaker 2: it and angst. I just wanted to be a woman.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't handle childhood. I was like, this is so annoying.

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Speaker 2: And she would take me and she would sit with

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Speaker 2: me and just be like, do you understand You're going

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Speaker 2: to do amazing things in this world? Like You're going

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Speaker 2: to be incredible. But it wasn't at a time where

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Speaker 2: I ever thought that I was only eight or nine.

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, yeah, whatever. I just couldn't And

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Speaker 2: the time that she spent with me, I can't remember

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Speaker 2: anything she said to me, but I know that feeling,

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Speaker 2: and it was I felt so cared for and so

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Speaker 2: special that she went out of her way to spend

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Speaker 2: time with me. That I will never forget that. And

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Speaker 2: I always think of that when I think of children,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I don't have a high tolerance for them,

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Speaker 2: so I really have to pick and choose the ones

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Speaker 2: that I want to be around. But it is so

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Speaker 2: impactful to have that kind of influence. Now do you

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Speaker 2: mentor anyone Are you into that in terms of writing,

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Speaker 2: Like do you help other authors?

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Speaker 3: I do? I do. I haven't helped I haven't worked

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Speaker 3: with a lot of beginning novelists, but I work with,

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Speaker 3: you know, a sort of a big group of us

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Speaker 3: who all sort of came of age at the same time.

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Speaker 3: And there's something so powerful. I was going to point

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Speaker 3: out what you were going to what you were saying

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Speaker 3: earlier about children and being you know, mentored like that.

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Speaker 3: It's especially important for girls, and I found, like with

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Speaker 3: the women female writers community, there was for a long

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Speaker 3: time this don't ever tell anybody what you're doing, what

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Speaker 3: you're making, what you're getting, you know, keep everything very competitive.

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Speaker 3: And so I've got this big group of female friends

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Speaker 3: where we share information now, and that's another thing that's

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Speaker 3: kind of life changing, is women sort of owning their

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Speaker 3: own ambition and coming together to share information that is

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Speaker 3: withheld from us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which also seems like a newer thing. Females supporting females.

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Speaker 2: It's like we finally cracked the code and we're like, oh, wait,

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Speaker 2: why the hell are we listening to men tell us

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Speaker 2: to you know, they're the ones that are separating us

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Speaker 2: and making us so competitive. And it feels like a

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Speaker 2: recent thing where women are really showing up for each

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Speaker 2: other and understanding we're not each other's enemy. You know,

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Speaker 2: we actually have to stick together and become the most

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Speaker 2: powerful version of ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that's one of the best things I see

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Speaker 3: happening around us now. I mean, when I was a

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Speaker 3: young lawyer, there were very few you know, female lawyers

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Speaker 3: that were partners or you know, we're running the firms

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Speaker 3: or anything, and there was very little mentoring going on,

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Speaker 3: and it all felt very competitive, like there was only

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Speaker 3: room for one at a time. And I think we

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Speaker 3: have all learned how important it is to you know,

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Speaker 3: offer a hand to the people coming to the girls

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Speaker 3: coming up behind us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you write, I mean there's a lot of female

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Speaker 2: friendships in the books. Obviously, there's always, you know, a

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Speaker 2: strong connection, especially in the Women and the Great Alone,

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Speaker 2: you know, that community in Alaska and the Nightingale, and

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Speaker 2: so that must feel important for you to demonstrate, you know, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and that was something you know, Like I said, I

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Speaker 2: moved around a lot, so so childhood friendships are rare.

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Speaker 3: And I think it was until I was in college

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Speaker 3: and then a young mother and a young wife and

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Speaker 3: all those things where I really sort of understood this

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Speaker 3: truth that had not been sort of passed along to

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Speaker 3: me anyway for whatever reason. My mom died very young,

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Speaker 3: so maybe that's part of it. But this truth that

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Speaker 3: it is your girlfriends who will carry you through life,

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Speaker 3: who will be there when you know, when the shit

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Speaker 3: hits the fan. It's your girlfriends that you call when

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Speaker 3: you feel like a bad mother. It's your girlfriends when

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Speaker 3: you want to celebrate anything that happens. And I think

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Speaker 3: it's so important because we come together, we witness each

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Speaker 3: other's lives, we are each other's support. In many ways,

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Speaker 3: we're soulmates, you know, with our best friends. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's kind of an idea that is, it feels

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Speaker 3: new even though it shouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: I know, isn't that so weird? It's so within us

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Speaker 2: and in our DNA, like as a you know, we're

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Speaker 2: so maternal just by nature. We have to really unlearn

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Speaker 2: all of these things that have been kind of put

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Speaker 2: on us. How old were you when your mom passed?

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Speaker 3: I think it was about twenty four?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So how does that affect you? Being a mother?

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Speaker 2: Losing your mother at that age?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's hard. I mean it's really hard, and

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Speaker 3: then you have to rely on your dad. And my

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Speaker 3: dad was of course broken at the time as well,

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Speaker 3: we all were, you know, she was so young, forty six,

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Speaker 3: and so at twenty four you don't realize how impactful

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Speaker 3: this is going to be because you are at that

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Speaker 3: age where you think you've got it nailed. You know everything,

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Speaker 3: you know, you're the smartest girl in the room. And

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Speaker 3: so it wasn't until I would say, really almost forty

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Speaker 3: when it really struck me. I didn't know my mother

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Speaker 3: and I had to sort of go and search for her,

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Speaker 3: you know, try to find her myself. And I did

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Speaker 3: that the way I do ever every thing, which is

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Speaker 3: through writing and so that's why I wrote the book

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Speaker 3: Firefly Lane, about a woman who is, you know, dealing

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Speaker 3: with breast cancer, because that was my best way to

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Speaker 3: try to figure out, like, what did this look like

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Speaker 3: from her side?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm curious at how it actually impacts your parenting,

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Speaker 2: because you know that you're giving her something that you

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Speaker 2: didn't necessarily get for that long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what it does. I think always in

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Speaker 3: the back of your mind is this idea that being

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Speaker 3: a parent is really important, being there and showing up

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Speaker 3: is really important, but also understanding I think that you

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Speaker 3: have a finite amount of time and knowing sort of

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Speaker 3: I guess the peaks and valleys that the relationship you know,

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Speaker 3: will go through. And I just always try, to the

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Speaker 3: best of my ability to never sort of do something

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Speaker 3: that I think is across the line, because you just

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Speaker 3: never know how much time you have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Wow, we're going to take a break and

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Speaker 2: we're going to be right back and we're back with

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Speaker 2: Kristin Hannah. I'm so happy to have you on the

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Speaker 2: podcast today, Katherine. Do we have some callers we're going

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Speaker 2: to give advice, Kristin, so buckle up.

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Speaker 1: Our first email really just has to do with recommendations.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners love books and are constantly asking for more recommendations.

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Speaker 1: So Kathy says, my name is Kathy Quinn. I'm from Dublin, Ireland.

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Speaker 1: I'm about to go on vacation and I would love

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Speaker 1: a list of book recommendations. Kathy.

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Speaker 3: Oh, okay, So Kathy, you're not telling me what you

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Speaker 3: actually like to read.

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Speaker 2: So no, I tricky.

435
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 3: There's a book called We Begin at the End by

436
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 3: Chris Whitaker that I love. I almost always recommend Shadow

437
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 3: of the Wind by Carlos Ruiza Phone And for a

438
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: vacation read, I mean, Lessons in Chemistry is way too easy,

439
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 3: so I will go with remarkably bright creatures.

440
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: I have to say I agree with I felt Lessons

441
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: of Chemistry. I felt like I was reading like a

442
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 2: school book, like not a school book, and it was

443
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: just too light and too easy. I'm like, no, I

444
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: need it a little bit a step up, no offense.

445
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 2: So I think Bonnie Garland wrote that, right Armus, Yeah, Garmus, Garmus. Sorry,

446
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: it's a great book. But I also felt that way.

447
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 2: And also I just got Belly of the Elephant. Loving

448
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 2: the Belly of the Elephant.

449
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 4: You guys.

450
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 2: Have you guys heard about that book.

451
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: I didn't read that.

452
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: It's going around with my Whistler crew, so they gave

453
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: one to me for my birthday. So I'm going to

454
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: get into that as soon as I'm done with the Women.

455
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 2: But I also would say to our caller, just the

456
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: Great Alone is not ever going to disappoint you if

457
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 2: you haven't read that. That is the best page turning emotionally,

458
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: like you're so invested and you feel like you've been

459
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 2: spun around the spin cycle and like an a laundromat

460
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: after you read that, because you are have been through

461
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: every kind of gamut of emotion and it's just so beautiful.

462
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: And I'm sure many of our listens haven't yet read it,

463
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: but the way that you ended that book was done

464
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: in such a tasteful, non cheesy way and believable. Like

465
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: I loved that, because sometimes when books have that kind

466
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: of ending, they can go it's just too much, like

467
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 2: it's like almost like a pad com Yeah yeah, and

468
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: you're like, no, that's not real. But this felt just

469
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: perfect everything about it from start to finish. It's just

470
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 2: blown away.

471
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: I'd see a couple of recommendations of things I've read recently.

472
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: This is an old one, but I just finished Into

473
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: thin Air, which is John Crackhouer, and he talks about

474
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: being on Mount Everest during the deadliest year of Everest expeditions.

475
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: I also just read Over the Top, which is Jonathan

476
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: van Ness's first book, and I really loved that. It

477
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: was really a lot more frank than I expected, and

478
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: so that was great. But one of my favorites that

479
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: I've read recently is The Square of Sevens. It's by

480
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 1: Laura Shephard Robinson and it follows a woman in the

481
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds who sort of does some divination and reads

482
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: cards for people. It's really really cool and exciting, and

483
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: I will say there is something about the way you write,

484
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: Kristin that I found myself, especially with the women, but

485
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: also with the grade alone, Like you're reading, but you

486
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: forget that you're reading it. You're just seeing it in

487
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: your mind. You're just sort of like visually seeing this,

488
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: experiencing the characters, and they're just there their Yemi reads.

489
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: It's pure escapism. You're writing like it's really just takes

490
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: you away, and which is what you want from a book,

491
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 2: at least I do.

492
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 3: But really as I'm writing, it almost feels like I'm

493
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: watching a movie and transcribing it. It's so you know,

494
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 3: fully formed in my head, and so I think that's

495
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 3: why I mean, I hear cinematic all the time, and

496
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: I think I am it's a huge you know, visual person.

497
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 2: Has anyone bought the rights to the grade alone?

498
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 3: It is actually in development for whatever that means. And

499
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers has just bought the women and it looks

500
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: actually like the Nightingale may film this year, which is

501
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 3: pretty exciting after you know, co and the strikes and

502
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 3: everything that we've had to deal with.

503
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: Wow, that's awesome. Congratulations. I love that.

504
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, let's jump to our first caller here. Our

505
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: first caller is Nicole and she is a wellness coach

506
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: and writer. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing to ask

507
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: you about writing. I'm twenty eight years old and have

508
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: endured a lot in my lifetime and feel called to

509
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: write about it, but I still have a lot of

510
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: doubts if my story is enough. Last September I had

511
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: a personal essay published in The Cut. I lost my

512
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: dad on nine to eleven, and I'm still searching for

513
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: who he was. Was the title of it. Right now,

514
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm in the final sprint of writing my memoir along

515
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: with a group of female writers doing the same. I

516
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: have about twenty five k words down. My goal is

517
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: to hit forty K, but I can't help but feel

518
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: stuck and resistant when writing the rest. I've been writing

519
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: in no particular order, and I feel like my story

520
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: doesn't have the needed beats to flow that other memoirs

521
00:25:58,920 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: en compass.

522
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 3: Ooh.

523
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: I've been piecing together memories and scenes and lessons that

524
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: stand out in my memory from the past twenty or

525
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: so years. It's been challenging to capture a moment in time,

526
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: so I include all of it. I keep reminding myself

527
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: that it's just a first draft, but it doesn't make

528
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: it any easier to sit down and write the hard stuff.

529
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: Reading Life Will Be The Death of Me was a

530
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: beautiful and soul crushing experience. As a reader, I admire

531
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: how vulnerable you are surrounding the loss of your brother

532
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: Chet and its impact on you. So my question for

533
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: you is, how do you push past resistance and write

534
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: about super personal, vulnerable moments from your life and childhood.

535
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: What wisdom can you share from your experience writing previous

536
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: books and the one you're working on now. Thanks so much, Nicole.

537
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: Hi, Nicole, Hi, Hi. You're very lucky because we have

538
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: a very big author on today. I'm Kristin. I'm going

539
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 2: to let you go first because I consider you much

540
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: more professional than I do myself.

541
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: First of all, I find it extremely difficult to write

542
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 3: out of order because you lose the connective tissue you

543
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: of one moment to the next, and then you're trying

544
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: to sort of recapture what you were doing before. But

545
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 3: if you're writing what you should be writing, you're slightly

546
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: changed in every single moment, and those need to progress.

547
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: So I would say that first of all, and I

548
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 3: would also say that everyone's first draft is terrible and

549
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: frightening and difficult, and you're sure that it's not good enough,

550
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 3: And the point of that is to sit down and

551
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: to push through and get to the end, because really,

552
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: only at the end can you look back with clear

553
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 3: eyes and see what the best story is and how

554
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: to tell it. You have to get all of that

555
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: out of the way first.

556
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: I agree with that writing out of order can be

557
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: frustrating because you kind of lose your tempo, and then

558
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: I always have to write chronologically. I started this book

559
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 2: by just writing essays and then I was like, oh,

560
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: we'll put them together, and I'm like, no, no, I actually

561
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 2: have to go in a time order. So I agree

562
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: with that, and I also think, like, first of all,

563
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: it's amazing that you're sitting down and writing a book.

564
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: So patch yourself on the back for actually even taking

565
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: on that task. You've set yourself up for success with

566
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: a group of other women that are also doing the

567
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 2: same thing as you. And your first draft isn't going

568
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: to be the draft that you want, but it's just

569
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: important to get just keep moving, you know what I mean,

570
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: towards your goal and keep writing and you don't get

571
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: the answers, like you know, sometimes I'm writing something, I'm like,

572
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: this isn't going to work with this and this doesn't

573
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 2: connect to this, and then like sometimes in the middle

574
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: of the day, it just pops into my head the answer.

575
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: Because when you spend enough time being creative like that,

576
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: creativity begets more creativity. So it's just like Kristin was

577
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: saying earlier, you weren't on the phone yet, but when

578
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: she sits down and she writes, you have to put

579
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: the time in for that effort and then it does

580
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: kind of all come together when it's supposed to. But

581
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to be perfect in your first book.

582
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: I learned more in my first book and the editing process,

583
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: and I'm on my seventh book. So just all of that,

584
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: like sentence structure and thought structure and where this goes

585
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: and times and places like all of that stuff. There's

586
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: so much to learn in the editing process that you

587
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: just have to know that that is going to be.

588
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: I think for me that is the most important ingredient

589
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: for anything I do, is the editing, whether it's my

590
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: stand up, whether it's my books or being on TV.

591
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: Like you always want to edit to amplify. That's what

592
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: I always think. You don't need to have everything in there,

593
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: but you can put everything down and then you go

594
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: in and go, this isn't necessary, this isn't necessary, and

595
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: tighten everything to make it just really like full, juicy

596
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: and fast, you know, moving, moving, moving.

597
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

598
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: To add on to that, which I think is absolutely true,

599
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: the act of writing is, especially your own story, is

600
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: so cathartic and so powerful and it changes you and

601
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: just simply the fact that you undertake this and you

602
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 3: write it you know, don't focus too much on is

603
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 3: this publishable? Where will this go? What will I do

604
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: with it? Just sit down and focus on the idea

605
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 3: of you telling your story for you, and don't you think, Chelsea,

606
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: it's just so powerful to do that and getting to

607
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: the end is the crucial moment. So just keep going.

608
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: Nicole, So you've written about losing your dad in this

609
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: very traumatic way and you've published an article about it.

610
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: Is that what you're finding the most difficult to write

611
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: about or is it some of the other you know,

612
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: connective tissue the other parts of your life.

613
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's kind of revisiting in it and

614
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: continuing to revisit in revisions and just kind of constantly

615
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 4: looking at it or thinking about it. Is like the

616
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 4: process of a writer. But I also was diagnosed with

617
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 4: leukemia when I was fifteen, so about ten years after

618
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 4: I lost my dad, and that's kind of where the

619
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 4: story begins. And then I'm going back in time a

620
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 4: little bit there with how this relates to the philoss

621
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 4: with my dad and how they all kind of come

622
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 4: to get So he was wondering, when you're writing about

623
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 4: these moments of grief and complicated grief, Like, how do

624
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: you kind of structure or process you're writing so that

625
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 4: you're not feeling that all the time or you're kind

626
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: of getting back to the present.

627
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: Well, I think in any natural like rhythm, you're going

628
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: to be right. I mean I remember writing the Life

629
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: will be the Death of Me parts of it, and

630
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: I was bawling crying writing it. But like anything with grief,

631
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: you're not sitting in it all the time. So you

632
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: have to be very gentle with yourself, like when you're

633
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: having those moments, have those moments. That's where the most

634
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: beautiful stuff can come from, you know, deep pain and grief,

635
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: and so allow yourself the time to sit with that

636
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: and don't make such strict rules for yourself. Right, You're

637
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: going to find your own rhythms about things. You're going

638
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: to find out like when the best time of day

639
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: is to write. If you haven't already, you're going to

640
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: find out Okay, I just wrote this, and now I

641
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: need a break to write something a little bit lighter.

642
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: You're going to get into your rhythm. So just pay

643
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: close attention to you. When you've had a really productive day,

644
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: be like, okay, what was that that led to that

645
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: productive day, you know, so you can really just keep

646
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: cultivating the best habits for you and I'm not worried

647
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: about it at all. For you, like this is the

648
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: process and your first book is it can be terrifying,

649
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: so it's just already bold that you're doing it.

650
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 4: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, the balance between

651
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: the creativity and then like you know, having to produce

652
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 4: something too and having something you know, I want out there.

653
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 4: But I think having less pressure and kind of figuring

654
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 4: out what works for me is the process I've been

655
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 4: on and I can lead into that more.

656
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, well, good luck to you. I can't wait

657
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: to read your book.

658
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I really appreciate talking to everyone's day.

659
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: Thanks to call.

660
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: Thank you, Nicole, take care bye. She seemed like an author.

661
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And when I first talked to her,

662
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, well, I you know, I'm a wellness

663
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: coach and stuff and yeah, I'm not really a rite

664
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you are a writer. I

665
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: was like that, you know, that's your day job, that's

666
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, you might have a nine to five.

667
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: But it's just so funny that men will always say

668
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: like that. You know, it's like we can't ever just

669
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: lean in, like I'm going to be a writer. I'm

670
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: writing my first book. It's you know, no, men have

671
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: no problem. Yeah I'm an author before they publish a

672
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: fucking thing.

673
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: I wish like a we could gift to all women,

674
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: like ten percent of the confidence of like a twenty

675
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: two year old white guy who's just graduated from college,

676
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: Like just ten percent.

677
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: It'd be perfect.

678
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: My nephew Max will start with your confidence.

679
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: Perfect.

680
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: Oh and I just wanted to add two for Nicole.

681
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: We chatted about it. She has cancer free now, so

682
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: she no longer has leukemia and she's doing great. So

683
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: our next caller is Sarah. Sarah is thirty six, and

684
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: she's here in La, she says, Dear Chelsea. Last year

685
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: I left my full time copywriting job to pursue my

686
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: dream of feminist writing. Since then, I've started a weekly

687
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: newsletter that has amassed a pretty decent following and continues

688
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: to grow daily. I've also landed a few big byelines

689
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: on hot feminist topics, writing a book that uses some

690
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 1: of my own story to highlight how evangelical Christianity and

691
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: purity culture harmed millennial girls. Since it draws heavily upon

692
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: my own experiences. My book will implicate people from my past,

693
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: such as my ex husband, my old church, and, to

694
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: my great discomfort, even my family. I don't want to

695
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: use this opportunity to bash or hurt anyone, but I

696
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: do want to be honest about what happens so I

697
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: can help other women. How do I stay vulnerable about

698
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: my experiences without undermining my credibility and looking like I

699
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: have an axe to grind? I admire your candidness and

700
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: fairness when talking about your own painful moments of the past,

701
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: and I would love your insight. Sarah.

702
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: Hi, Sarah, Hi, Hi, Hi. This is Kristin Hannah, our

703
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 2: special guest today.

704
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 3: So nice, Thank you, Hi, Sarah.

705
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: So are you you're writing? Is it a novel? Are

706
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 2: you making it fiction?

707
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 5: No, it's it's kind of a memoir. Plus it's going

708
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 5: to be kind of a deep dive into evangelical purity culture.

709
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 5: And I got married at twenty two because of that

710
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 5: whole ecosystem. So it would, you know, talk about generally

711
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 5: how that whole y two k era harmed women and

712
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 5: girls like me, So it would use my story, but

713
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 5: kind of do more of a cultural deep dive.

714
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: Well in the process. As Kristin can attest as well,

715
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: you are going everyone is writing about themselves to some degree,

716
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: and whether it's fiction or nonfiction, like we all are.

717
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: And if you're going to write a nonfiction memoir, you're

718
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: going to have to change the names and the people. Anyway,

719
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: it's a legal issue, so you're gonna they're going to

720
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: step in your editor and help you with that, because

721
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: you don't have the liberty to, like, you know, tell

722
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 2: other people's stories. Unfortunately. I know that because I've gotten

723
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: in trouble many, many times. So you do have to

724
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 2: kind of disguise everybody. I mean, you could still tell

725
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 2: your story, you're just kind of protecting the people that

726
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: aren't agreeing to be written about unless you can get

727
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: their permission. So I wouldn't really worry about that, you know.

728
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: I mean, Kristin, you've probably to do that. I mean,

729
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: you're writing more fiction, obviously, But what has been your

730
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: experience with change when you're basing a character on a

731
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: real person or on an experience in your life.

732
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 3: Do you know what. I've actually been really careful not

733
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 3: to include real people in my fiction to a great

734
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 3: extent for this very reason. And since I don't do memoirs,

735
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: I can't really speak to that. But it's it's interesting

736
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 3: because I mean, maybe you know this Chelsea, if she

737
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 3: calls it a novel and everyone is you know, fictional

738
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: and it doesn't look too much like her actual husband,

739
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 3: where is the line there?

740
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that that would be a better

741
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: avenue for you not to have to worry about it,

742
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 2: because once you fictionalize it, then you can color it

743
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: with whatever you want, you know. I mean, you can

744
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: do that in a memoir, but it's that's not really

745
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: what a memoir is. But have you thought about making

746
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: it fiction? No, But that's really interesting.

747
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 5: That's a really interesting idea.

748
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 2: Because then you can kind of just let it loose,

749
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

750
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you could address issues that perhaps you didn't

751
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 3: personally face, but you feel, you know, need to be

752
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 3: explored and need to be talked about. And then you

753
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: could use your personal story as sort of marketing and

754
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: you know, and how to sell the book because you

755
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: would bring so much to a novel as you know,

756
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 3: as someone to talk to.

757
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 5: Oh that's really interesting. Okay, Yeah, Well the first book

758
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 5: I wrote was a novel, so I have experience doing that,

759
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 5: so that that's I had not considered that.

760
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: That's a great idea, Yeah, because it's like historical fiction

761
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: what you're talking about. Yeah, Okay, well, great problem solved,

762
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: I think, yeah.

763
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: And I mean I am someone who went through some

764
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: of the same stuff where like you know, youth group

765
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: and purity culture and all this stuff that like, really,

766
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: you know, I've found stuff rattling around in my brain

767
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: decades later that I'm like, I didn't know that was

768
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: still in there. A couple of books that I recommend

769
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: to for anybody who did go through that, Pure by

770
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: Linda ka Klin was something that helped me sort of

771
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: unearth a lot of those things rattling around in there

772
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: that weren't very healthy. And then also Kate Kennedy just

773
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: wrote a book called One in a Millennial that's on

774
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: the New York Times bestseller list at the moment, and

775
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: it's a lot about uh, millennial culture, but also some

776
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: of the religious stuff that maybe mess us up a

777
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: little bit.

778
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: So well, thank you both, Thank you.

779
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,959
Speaker 5: Nice to meet you both. I've been such a huge

780
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 5: fan of both of you, so I appreciate it.

781
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 3: Thank you.

782
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, can keep us posted, Okay, Okay, we'll do by awesome,

783
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: And if anyone wants to check out Sarah's feminist newsletter,

784
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: it is called Reclaiming and you can find it at

785
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: reclaimingthewsletter dot com. I kind of wonder too, Christ And

786
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if you you know, your career is at

787
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: the point where one book feeds into the next, as

788
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: far as like you have a following and this sort

789
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: of thing. Is there any advice you'd give to beginner

790
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: authors or writers as far as connecting with a publisher,

791
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: selling your book, getting the word out there, maybe on

792
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: social media, any of that stuff you work.

793
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: You know, when you're a beginning writer, everything seems like

794
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 3: it's about one book and how does this book sell?

795
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: How does this book get reviewed? What happens? And I mean,

796
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: I'm living proof that a career is made book by

797
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: book by book, but also in the aggregate, and a

798
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: book that failed, you know, ten years ago, can suddenly

799
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: be on the bestseller list. And so I think the

800
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: important thing is, you know, to just if this is

801
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 3: what you want to do, if you want to be

802
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: a working writer, then you have to make the sacrifices

803
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: that are necessary to do that. You know, you have

804
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: to find the time to sit down, you have to

805
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 3: actually write. You need to find a group of people

806
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 3: that support you because it's a lonely endeavor. And then

807
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 3: you have to not give up. You know, you have

808
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 3: to not let failure derail you. You have to not

809
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 3: let anything push you aside and keep believing in yourself

810
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: and your vision and believing that like I said earlier,

811
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: the writing itself is the most important thing, you know.

812
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 3: It's sort of if you build it, they will follow,

813
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 3: you know, if you do your best time after time

814
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: after time, and you get lucky, you can have a

815
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 3: career or a job at this. But it will never

816
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: be easy. And I don't know about you, Chelsea, but

817
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 3: like every new endeavor, I think, can I do it again?

818
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 3: Do I still have it in me? And you just

819
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 3: have to battle that, I think, like we were talking

820
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 3: about earlier, especially as women.

821
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: But it's so interesting though, because you know it's like

822
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: do I still have it in me? And I would

823
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: argue that we get better as we get older, you know,

824
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: in terms of creative Like I loved what you just said.

825
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: It's book by book. It reminds me of that bird

826
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: By bird By and LaMotte that book because somebody should

827
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: write a book called book by books it's for authors,

828
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: because that's so true. You think, you know, it's everything's

829
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 2: writing on this one book, and it's like, that's just

830
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: not the case. I've had very successful books and I've

831
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: had less successful books, and it is an aggregate and

832
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: it is it's like it's the whole collection, you know,

833
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: So everything is just kind of a step when you're

834
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: when you're a writer, it's like, this is your first book,

835
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: and you know that there's going to be one after

836
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: that and another one after that, and it doesn't have

837
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: to be the most successful book in the world for

838
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: you to get another book deal. You know, all you

839
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 2: need is your creative artistic intelligence and you're gonna figure

840
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: it out. But I also think when when you have

841
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 2: a clear vision about something and you can see it,

842
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: like what Kristin what you were saying about when you're writing.

843
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: I feel that way about things when i'm really like,

844
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: I guess in your flow state. You know, when you're

845
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: in your flow state and it's just easy and it

846
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: comes to you, but you're very clear about where you're going.

847
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: It's kind of like it's almost impossible not to succeed

848
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 2: when you have such a clear vision.

849
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: I think that's true, and it's long as Like the corollarily,

850
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 3: I would add to that is what you said earlier,

851
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: editing matters. You know, you can easily get to a

852
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: point where, and especially beginning writers, where they just think

853
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: everything is perfect as it comes out to them because

854
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: they feel like they're in that flow state. And the

855
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: fact is, you you know, you have to be an

856
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: artist for half of the project, and then at some

857
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 3: point you have to be a business person. You you know,

858
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 3: you have to look at your work with really cold,

859
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 3: hard eyes and try to make it the best. And

860
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that's great about writing

861
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: in terms of for the long term is the more

862
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: you change and grow, the more your work changes and grows,

863
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 3: and the more you bring to the table. And that's

864
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: I think pretty exciting to sort of watch yourself, you know,

865
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: improve over time.

866
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that is very satisfying.

867
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: And kind of along those lines, I've read somewhere that

868
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: you had the idea for the women like decades ago,

869
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: but you didn't feel like you were ready to tackle that.

870
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: Is there a way that you know when it's time

871
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: to tackle an older idea or when you're ready.

872
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 3: Well, when I first pitched a book about Vietnam, it

873
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 3: was nineteen ninety seven, so I was thirty seven, and

874
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 3: I had an editor who had been at Berkeley in

875
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight, and she was a very smart woman.

876
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 3: And that's one thing I would say, surround yourself with

877
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: the smartest people you can and then listen to them.

878
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's super important. And she said, you know, honey,

879
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 3: you're not old enough and you're not good enough, but

880
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: come back when you are, because it's a good idea.

881
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: And in nineteen ninety seven, no one wanted to talk

882
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: or hear about Vietnam, and so I just kind of

883
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 3: waited and I kept it was almost like my Bellweather,

884
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 3: like okay, am I old enough? Am I good enough?

885
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 3: And I started realizing, okay, I'm now old enough. And

886
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: part of that was motherhood. Part of that was seeing

887
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 3: the world change around me. Part of that was understanding

888
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 3: things about government and politics and American society that I

889
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: could not possibly have understood when I was, you know, younger.

890
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 3: And part of was leaning into risk taking and saying, Okay,

891
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 3: I've done this for a very long time, and I

892
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 3: am ready to fail if that's what it takes and

893
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 3: this is my moment.

894
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: And Chelsea, do you have thoughts on that as well

895
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 1: as far as one part of your story when it's

896
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: time to tell that going back to things that might

897
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: be old or painful or no.

898
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you just know when you're like

899
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: you've got, when you've ready to drum something up, you know,

900
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: you're like, I have output. I have enough now, I've

901
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 2: collected enough new information that I need to get some

902
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 2: ideas out there. You know, the book I'm writing now,

903
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: I've had a more I was trying to like jam

904
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: it in and jam it in and write and like

905
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, let me write here and write there,

906
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 2: And it's like that's not a natural flow when you're

907
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: doing that. Now, when I've been a you know, whistler

908
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 2: for a month or two, that's when I get my

909
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: writing done. When I could do it every morning, the

910
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: first thing I do is get my computer and write

911
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: for three hours. And half of my writing is editing.

912
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: Like I'm always editing. I'm always looking through things again

913
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: because I just I find that to be the sharpest way,

914
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: especially for comedy, you need to have a good editor,

915
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: and you need to be a good self editor. That's

916
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: another thing. You know, people can get really married to

917
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: their own ideas and thoughts. And when Kristen says, listen

918
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 2: to people who are smarter than you, you know, I do

919
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 2: defer to my editors every single time when they're like

920
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 2: this isn't really working or I'm not somebody who has

921
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: to be like, no, I need this, I need this.

922
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: I'm very open to feedback, and I think that is

923
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: a very critical you know, because some people are too

924
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 2: open to feedback and they don't you know, they kind

925
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: of lose themselves to the feedback versus being so obstinate

926
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 2: you can't hear any constructive criticism. There's a nice place

927
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: in the middle to find where you are open to feedback,

928
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: but you still have an idea of where you're going

929
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: and you're married to that idea and people can edit

930
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: around that, but you have to stay true to what

931
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 2: your vision is.

932
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 3: So, Chelsea, how do you I mean, You've got a

933
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 3: lot of creative pursuits going at any one time, right,

934
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: lots of different avenues for your creativity. How do you

935
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 3: balance when is the time for what? And when to

936
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 3: lean in and when to take a moment and wait,

937
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 3: I don't know.

938
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a you know, like a

939
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: live wire. I just kind of I get in a

940
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 2: good state, like a flow state with my stand up

941
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, you know what, I'm loving this

942
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: so much. I'm loving the show. I'm going to extend

943
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: it and do fifty more dates before I shoot my special.

944
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 2: When I'm writing, if I'm only writing, then I really

945
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: get into writing. When you have like too many plates

946
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: in the air, I find that it diminishes some of

947
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: your work. So I need, like certain I need to

948
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: really focus when I'm writing. I really need to focus

949
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: on that. I wouldn't be able to start a book,

950
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: and so my stand up set is exactly where I wanted.

951
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 2: So once that's an a plus, then I can move

952
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: on to another.

953
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: Endeavor like seasons kind of yeah.

954
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 2: And I also am very good about taking breaks and

955
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: really filling myself up with travel and culture and exercise

956
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 2: and all the stuff that feeds your soul. You know,

957
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: different people, and exposing yourself to things that aren't really

958
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: that interesting to you a lot of the time, because

959
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 2: you're going to find out that you know, there's so

960
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 2: much to gain from, like going into a situation you're

961
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: not that interested in, and you know, it's kind of

962
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 2: how I feel about the grade alone. It was such

963
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: a good example of nothing about that story is anything

964
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 2: I care about, Like, I have no interest in that world,

965
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 2: yet it's you know, because of the power of your

966
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: writing and the story, it made me so interested. And

967
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 2: I think of that as an example of being curious

968
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 2: enough to go to a place that you're not that

969
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: interested in.

970
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: Well, let's take a quick break and I have one

971
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: more short question when we come back.

972
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: Perfect and we're back.

973
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: We are back, So Joseph writes, Dear Chelsea, I'm an

974
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: aspiring author working on my first book in a series.

975
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm writing a sci fi outer space saga that I've

976
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: been creating for the past five years. It's taken a

977
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: long time to write a good chunk of it, being

978
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: as I work full time. I'm roughly fifty pages from finishing,

979
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: but lately I've hit a giant wall blocking me from finishing.

980
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: I know how I want the book to end, but

981
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: I get in my head and in my emotions about

982
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome. How do you push past writer's block? And

983
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: also what kind of environment best suits you for writing

984
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: soft music? Coffee shop, dead silence. What's best for getting

985
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: in the groove?

986
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 2: Joseph, I like dead silence. I mean that's ideal, but yeah,

987
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: what about you dead.

988
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 3: Silence and no rituals? Like it's time, it's time to

989
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: sit down, so I sit down. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily

990
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 3: doing anything when I sit down, But like I said,

991
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 3: my muse shows up when I sit down. And in

992
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 3: terms of imposter syndrome and doing all of that, that's

993
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: all sort of you know, that's all in your head

994
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: and it's always there and we all have to deal

995
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 3: with it all the time. And the bottom line is

996
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: the only way through is to write your way through.

997
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 3: You have to get the words on the page that

998
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 3: you can then you know, turn into something else. You

999
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 3: just have to.

1000
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree, like I don't really have rituals

1001
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: at all. I mean I meditate every day, but that's

1002
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: a separate that's not for writing per se. But I

1003
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: find that that sometimes can even take up more time.

1004
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: Like you know, like if you sit down and you're

1005
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: in front of your computer or a legal power however,

1006
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: you write and you just say, like I'm gonna be

1007
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: here for two hours, you're gonna start writing stuff, and

1008
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: it might not always work or always be stuff that

1009
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: you're going to use. That's part of the process too.

1010
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: As far as imposter syndrome goes, it's like, that's not

1011
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: that original either. Everyone feels that way, so it's almost

1012
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 2: not even worth discussing because it's just part of the package.

1013
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: Everyone's just gonna feel like, you know, you kind of

1014
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: vacillate between that and then bounts of confidence and capability

1015
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: and we all feel that way, and that's just your

1016
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: voice in your head. And so the quicker you can

1017
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: get those thoughts through, the quicker you're going to be

1018
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: able to focus on your story and fill in the

1019
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 2: blanks that you feel are missing.

1020
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: I think even imposter syndrome like gets bigger the closer

1021
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 1: you get to finishing something too.

1022
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the more you focus on it, the bigger

1023
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 2: it becomes.

1024
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 3: I would say too that Joseph, if you are fifty

1025
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 3: pages from the end, and this is this is just personal,

1026
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 3: so this may not be true for you. But if

1027
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 3: I get to a place where I'm fifty pages from

1028
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 3: the end of a novel that I've been working on

1029
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 3: for a long period of time and I cannot write

1030
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: those last fifty pages, the answer to the question, is

1031
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 3: in the pages that came before, there is somewhere that

1032
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 3: you have taken a wrong turn, that you have put

1033
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 3: your character in a situation that either lessens the conflict

1034
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: or doesn't lead inevitably to your confusion. So you know,

1035
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: you can push through to the end, or you can

1036
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: go back to the beginning and edit to take you

1037
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,959
Speaker 3: back up to that moment. But most likely that's where

1038
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 3: your problem lies.

1039
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: That's really good advice, And this is really a question

1040
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: for each of you. Do you start with an outline

1041
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: or a skeleton for what you're writing or are you

1042
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: just like, let's go with the vision. I have an idea,

1043
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: let's go What.

1044
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 2: About you, Kristin.

1045
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 3: I don't begin a book until I have a very

1046
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 3: clear vision and I've done a lot of research and

1047
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: I know the story intimately, and then I sit down

1048
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: and write a completely different novel and just pray to

1049
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 3: God that I can get to a better ending than

1050
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 3: I had originally intended.

1051
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not an outline. First, my editors asked me

1052
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 2: for an outline about three times, and I just had

1053
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 2: to tell her that's not happening. I'm not an outlined person.

1054
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 3: I just do it.

1055
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 2: I need to just do it in my own way. Yeah.

1056
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing about writing, and that's what's so

1057
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 3: empowering it. There is not one size fits all. I mean,

1058
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 3: you can get you can get information like this, and

1059
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: I think what happens is when you hear from other writers,

1060
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 3: you know what speaks to you, and you hear the

1061
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 3: information when you need to hear it, and otherwise it

1062
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 3: just collects in there. So the more you can listen to,

1063
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 3: you know, conversations like this, I think the more you

1064
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 3: can find the answer that you're looking for.

1065
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. Well, christ and Hannah, oh my god,

1066
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: what a delight. I love you and it was so

1067
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 2: nice to meet you. I hope I see you again

1068
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 2: in person sometimes, I.

1069
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 3: Hope so, I would love to. This was really great.

1070
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and congrats on all of your

1071
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: earned success.

1072
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: It's pretty great. It's been a good week.

1073
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 2: Yes, congrats, that's congrats.

1074
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 3: All right, and good luck with the book you're working on.

1075
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you all right, take care of you guys,

1076
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 2: Take care.

1077
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: Ay, but thanks Kristen.

1078
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 2: Okay, So, Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is

1079
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: my game. Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry,

1080
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: I misspoke. I have added more shows. I added a

1081
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Speaker 2: second show in Vancouver, so I have two shows in

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Speaker 2: Vancouver March twenty ninth March thirtieth. Then I've added another

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Speaker 2: show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth, so i have

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Speaker 2: two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth. For other

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Speaker 2: shows in Australia and New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.

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Speaker 2: And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on

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Speaker 2: May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which is May fourth,

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Speaker 2: and then I'll be at the YouTube Theater May eleventh

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles with Matteo Lane and Vanessa Gonzalez and

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Speaker 2: Fortune Fiemester and Sam Jay. Those are my updates and

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Speaker 2: more shows are coming, so pay attention.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email

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Speaker 1: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be

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Speaker 1: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited

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Speaker 1: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and

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Speaker 1: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot

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Speaker 1: com