1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is not here 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: right now, but we'll be returning shortly. They call me Ben. 7 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, 9 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: to know. A snow secret these days. Matt that while 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: we've been recording, you can hear sounds in the background. 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: You can probably hear them in this episode as well. Uh, 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: those are signs of human activity and human activity. He 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: plays a big role in this week special two part episode. 15 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: We're going to We're gonna lean on our dear, dear friends, 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: our Australian conspiracy realists for these especially in our first episode. 17 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: And let's start it this way. Matt, you and I 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: are we love dogs right like you've got a dog 19 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: with you as a co producer. Basically, I do meadows, 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: always here, always panting, ready for action, and I hand 21 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: notes and notes uh and has literally great taste and vital. 22 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: So still mad about that one, I imagine. So why 23 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: do we want your help in particular, dear Australian friends. Well, 24 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: today's episode, the first part of this two part episode, 25 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: takes us to Oceana. This is the region of the 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: world that is home to a tremendous diversity, not just 27 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: bio diversity of animals, but diversity of cultures as ancient 28 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: past and no ding on the rest of the world, 29 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty unique. This region is home to vast numbers 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: of organisms that simply do not naturally exist anywhere else 31 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: on the planet. It's similar in a in a bigger 32 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: way to pandas in the mainland of China. You see 33 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,839 Speaker 1: a panda. Outside of China, you're in a zoo where 34 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: you're hanging out with a very wealthy, very shady individual. Uh. 35 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: It's so nuts. We we've talked about this before, but 36 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: in the ancient, ancient, ancient past, this area of the 37 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: world encountered long periods of isolation, uh law, so long 38 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: that the average human mind could not comprehend them. And 39 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: because of this isolation, there was opportunity for the animals 40 00:02:53,120 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: that lived there already to evolve and to assume various roles, 41 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: various psychological niches that were usually filled with placental mammals. 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: We're talking marsupials. So you might pause at this moment 43 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: and say, well, what are placental mammals? Short answer, pretty 44 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: much every mammal except from marsupials and monotreams. If you 45 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: live in the US, the marsupial that you are most 46 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: familiar with in the wild is the infamous possum. Feel 47 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: bad for him. I love animals, not my favorite animals, 48 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: but they're they're there. They have a right to exist. 49 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: But in the region of the world we're talking about 50 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: marsupials for a long time ran the game. They took 51 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: on the role of the scavengers. They took on the 52 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: role of the like the prey animals. You know, they 53 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: even took on the role of the predators. We cannot 54 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts on this when since about 55 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: nine various people for around the planet have traveled to 56 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: this specific region of the world, and specifically one island 57 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: will get to in a second to search for one 58 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: mysterious marsupial, in particular the legendary, officially extinct Thila scene 59 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: fancy name Thila snus sinocephalus street name the Tasmanian tiger. 60 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: Even though it's extinct, people are searching for it. Why 61 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: here are the facts. Yes. Uh, if you took a 62 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: look at a philaccene just kind of strolling on by today, 63 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: if one were to exist, to be able to do that, 64 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, man, that was a weird dog. 65 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: It's a really weird dog. Tiger in the back, a 66 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: little stray dog in the front. It's kind of a 67 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: yellowish brown color, kind of maybe gray, depending on which 68 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: one you saw. And uh, it's got the nose almost 69 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: of a greyhound or one of those longer snouted hounds. Yeah. 70 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. Wow. Yeah, it reminds me 71 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 1: of that, but it SLINKs a little differently. It does. 72 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: It's known for it was known for its kind of stiff, 73 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: somewhat lazy movements. And will we'll discover why we know 74 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: so much about how this extinct creature moved in just 75 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: a bit. It's carnivorous. It's marsupial. It's native or it 76 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: was native to Australia, Tasmania and New Guinea in particular, 77 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: and like other marsupials. In this isolated ecosystem, it evolved 78 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: to fill a niche that was typically held by the 79 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: other mammals. Again, all mammals that we know of except 80 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: for mono treams. It's like a kidne and platypus uh 81 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: or marsupials. All of them are placental mammals. The Thighla 82 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: scene most likely appeared around two million years ago, and 83 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: we know that humans in the area knew about them 84 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: through law time. We know this because of art. We 85 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: know that you can find depictions of Thighla scene like 86 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: creatures and engravings and paintings and whatnot dating back thousands 87 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: of years and various aboriginal groups. The people who are 88 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: living there for again thousands and thousands of years before 89 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: outsiders arrived, they knew the animal. Well. They didn't call 90 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: it the tiger though, depending on the community, they would 91 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: call it the corina, the canuna, the cannun there, the 92 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: lagunta and so on, depending on the people you were 93 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: talking to at the time. So where do we get 94 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: the name Tasmanian tiger? Oh? Yes, well, I mean some 95 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: Europeans showed up and they heard those other names, maybe 96 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: being spoken by by the original people by the people 97 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: who lived there originally and just thought, Uh, we're not 98 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: gonna go with that and doesn't really roll off the 99 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: tone the way we want it to. We're gonna call 100 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: this thing here the Tasmanian tiger. Yeah, because you saw 101 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: those stripes right on the spine going down the back 102 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: of those kind of black stripes that go across it 103 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: looks like a tiger to me. Hence we now dubbed 104 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: the Tasmanian tiger, or sometimes the Tasmanian wolf as well. Again, 105 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: it does look kind of like a dog to me, 106 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: more so than a large cat, like a tiger. Dog 107 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: in the front, tiger in the back, you know what 108 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: I mean. Calling it a wolf was pretty reasonable. I 109 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: agree with you, because if you look at the side 110 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: by side comparison of a thighlasene skull and the skull 111 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: of a wolf, like let's take a gray wolf for example, 112 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna have a hard time telling the difference, honestly, 113 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: other than like sheer size. Other than sheer size, you're 114 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: gonna have a tough time telling the difference because they 115 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: are extraordinarily similar due to a beautiful, creepy phenomenon called 116 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: convergent evolution. That is when different species who may have 117 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: started out from very different origin points evolve similar traits 118 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: because they find themselves occupying the same ecological niche. And 119 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: there's there's great speculative fiction about this. There's great scientific 120 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: you could call them thought experiments about how Earth could 121 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: have worked out with different dominant species or different sorts 122 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: of life forms occupying any number of roles, including the 123 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: apex predator world ending position of human. So you know, 124 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: if you want to go multiverse with it, this is 125 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: a This is a fun thing to think about. And 126 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: I don't mean that sarcastically. There are quite possibly other 127 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,119 Speaker 1: universes just to the left of hours where whatever occupies 128 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: the role of humans is doing whatever their version of 129 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: a podcast is today. I know I'm not useful for 130 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: our conversation, but need well, let let's break that down 131 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: just a little bit for the the convergent of a 132 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: Auian thing, just the concept that an environment needs a 133 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: bunch of different types of animals in order for it 134 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: to kind of be in harmony. Honestly, really so, if 135 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: you imagine, let's say, uh, in Tasmania, there are a 136 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: large number of huge population maybe and a growing almost 137 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: out of proportion population of small rodents or small mammals, 138 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: you know, just tiny little creatures like that that are 139 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: maybe eating plants and they're just going through a lot 140 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: of the plant life that exists there, and the the 141 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: system needs a predator like the thigh La scene that 142 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: does eat meat to go out and take care of 143 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: that population, or at least what dwindle it down quite 144 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: a bit just for lunch, you know, right right exactly nailed. 145 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: Unless that sound to brutal folks, consider the alternative. H 146 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: One thing a lot of tray species have in common 147 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: is that they reproduce at a higher rate them predators, 148 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: and that's how things are supposed to work. And when 149 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: they do that, if their population is not called by 150 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: predation at some threshold, it will be called by something, 151 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: whether that is mass starvation after resources are exhausted, or 152 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: whether that is the propagation of a new disease. You know. 153 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: So yeah, so something is something's going to give one 154 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: way or another. Uh. The thigh La scene were, for 155 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: all intents and purposes, a knine of of this area, 156 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: and they were descended from much larger creatures, which are 157 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: super cool they honestly, Yeah, the only non dog. Part 158 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: of their appearance, in my opinion, is that stiff tail, 159 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: those odd stripes, But if you look closely, they have 160 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: a different number of digits on their hind legs. They're 161 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: they're very they're very much not dogs, which we have 162 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: to emphasize because that plays a role in what we're 163 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: talking about today. They've got like kind of cute, so 164 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: adorable dog buggy faces as well. They weren't as dangerous 165 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: as you know, actual Siberian tigers or something, but they 166 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: were very much apex predators. We don't know exactly how 167 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: big their prey was. Given that they lived in packs 168 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: and often hunted in pairs, it is possible that they 169 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: could target larger prey creatures that individual tiger could not 170 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: have taken down alone. We do know they probably ate 171 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: a lot of birds, which I feel like our pal 172 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: Null would consider a selling point. Yeah, he definitely would. 173 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: There are a lot of beautiful birds though out there 174 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: in Australia and and Tasmanian places we're talking about today, 175 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: there wouldn't be if the tigers had anything to do 176 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: with it. That's true. So the fun fact before we 177 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: move on, I just want to shout out the Australian 178 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: Museum for being able to explain the scientific name of 179 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: the tiger with a straight face. Thighlis sentis psynocephalus, which 180 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, translates to dog headed pouch dog. Nice. 181 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: That's they just put the dog in there twice, so 182 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: it makes sense. You know, we we we kind of 183 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: we mentioned placental animals versus the mar super marsupials, right, 184 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: I think most of us understand the difference between those two. 185 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: You know, Uh, an animal that is inside the womb 186 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: and has the placental wrapping basically that provides nutrients for 187 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: the baby mammal, and then when it's birthed it's still 188 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: got part of that attached. In the case of these marsupials, 189 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: there's that pouch that you always think about, maybe that 190 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: you learned about kangaroos when you were younger or something, 191 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: where the tiny, itty, bitty little newly birthed baby goes 192 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: inside that pouch where it can get the nutrients it 193 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: needs from the parent. Yeah. And when we say pouch 194 00:12:55,200 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: from ember, we're talking biology. Uh, pouches is the description, 195 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: but really just think of a snot pocket. That's what 196 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: it is. Man. You're welcome everyone. Sorry, but yes, so 197 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: we're describing these things. Next question, cool neat where are 198 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: they now? Well, although the British are definitely the bad 199 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: guys in the story of Europe's encroachment into Australia, the 200 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: tiger was already extinct on the Australian mainland well before 201 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: the British arrived. In fact, by the time they hit town, 202 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: the Tasmanian tiger population was believed to live largely on 203 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: the island of Tasmania. It was their last stronghold, you 204 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: could say, against the humans. They were casualties of the 205 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: long war humanity has waged against the natural world. And 206 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: this means it's a war waged by all humans even now. 207 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: Even you know, if you don't think of yourself as 208 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: a combatant in that war, in some ways, you're contributing 209 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: to it by existing. Basically, by about forty thousand years ago, 210 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: Australia had already lost nine of its mega fauna, the 211 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: big animals, to humans. There were other factors that you know, 212 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: we're probably involved, environmental factors and so on, but it 213 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: was a tremendous human lead culling. Very few big critters survived. 214 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Exceptions would be things like the Tasmanian tiger or the kangaroo. 215 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: The arrival of the dingo in particular increased competition for 216 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: survival amid the thil scenes on the mainland again way way, way, 217 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: way before the British. And that makes sense because the 218 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: dingo occupies a similar ecological role, they become competitors. Uh. 219 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: This problem is compounded when Europeans arrive and they bring 220 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: their dogs with them. Wild dogs are now another fighter 221 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: on the field. Uh. The humans in Tasmania considered the 222 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: tiger a pest. They blamed it for attacks on lucrative livestock, 223 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: on sheep attacks that it turns out, we're probably exaggerated 224 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: and propaganda e's so humans started hunting them. The local 225 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: governments and regimes put forth various bounty systems similar to 226 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: the cobra effect which I mentioned a couple of times recently, 227 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: and as a result, the tiger population dwindled rapidly. Their 228 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: natural environment began to degrade due to human intervention. There 229 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: the ecological stress was driving them away from their normally 230 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: nocturnal hunting patterns, and too late humanity realized the tiger 231 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: was on the way out. Zoos around the world started 232 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: calling for captive specimens, not so much to display them, 233 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: but in the zoo's defense, they were hoping to get 234 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: breeding pairs and they were honestly trying to save the species. 235 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: All of these attempts, every single one, they were all unsuccessful. 236 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: And so it came to pass that the last Thighlas 237 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: seeing outside of Australia died in captivity at the London 238 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: Zoo in nine not the last Thilasy never, but the 239 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: last one outside of Australia. Yes, and so that's outside 240 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: of Australia or was he in in that area? But 241 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: then inside there was a guy named guess what guess 242 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: with the guy's name was. It was Benjamin. There's there's 243 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: a Tasman the entire named Benjamin. He was living at 244 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: the Hobart Zoo and unfortunately it died a few years 245 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: later in nineteen thirty six, that's on September six. And 246 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's thought that perhaps neglect was at play there. 247 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not. But you can see footage of this 248 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: guy if you go online search for David Flay I 249 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: think Flee f L E A Y. And he was 250 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: a naturalist and he was he took some photographs of 251 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: Benjamin in n it's really cool. We filmed the clip. 252 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: You can see the video. That's how that's there's a reveal, 253 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: our first reveal. That's how we know how the Tasmanian 254 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: tigers moved, or how we have a sense of it 255 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: because unlike many other extinct animals, we can see the 256 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: little guy, a little Benjamin walking around. Do we actually 257 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: get to see ben bite David on the bottom? No, 258 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: but that did happen? Yeah, bet On the key start, Well, 259 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: he's filmed me. Look, we said these creatures deserve to exist. 260 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: We never said they were nice. I mean, you know, 261 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: any any creature that is a predator, if you're in 262 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: their environment, I mean, come on, you're gonna get bit. Yeah. 263 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: I think that is a super good point, because there 264 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: are still predators today. The Tasmanian tiger is considered officially extinct. However, Ever, 265 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,719 Speaker 1: since Benjamin passed away back then, people throughout the region, 266 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: especially in southern Victoria, have claimed that they've seen living 267 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: Tasmanian tigers in the wild. So today's question, what's going on? 268 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: Could those stories be true? We're going to pause for 269 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors and we'll dive in. Here's 270 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, you know, Matt, If you think 271 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: about it, it's not really surprising that crypto zoologists, just 272 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: like our friend Todd over at the local, would be 273 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: so fascinated by the case of the Thila scene. I mean, 274 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: it checks a lot of boxes for an animal that 275 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: humans could miss. And for me, it's primarily because if 276 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: this thing didn't exist, and you just kind of glimpse 277 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,239 Speaker 1: of it, maybe in the bush or in the you know, 278 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere, you just saw one 279 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of run past or dive into some bushes. Uh, 280 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: you may think it was just a dog. You may 281 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 1: think it was you know, maybe a a dingo. Dingoes 282 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: are still around, right, yea dingo dingoes are still very 283 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: much a play. It could very likely be something else, 284 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 1: which means for humans who are interested in perhaps catching, 285 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, a glimpse of one of these fabled creatures 286 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: out there, Uh, there's gonna be a lot of confirmation 287 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 1: bias occurring in probably grainy film that has been taken, 288 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: you know since the nineteen thirties. Uh. Certainly now you 289 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: can go online and see many a video of people 290 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: who supposedly caught a glimpse of a Philaccene, you know, 291 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: in the nineties and the two thousand's, but it's very 292 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: difficult to confirm with the evidence that's been captured. Yeah, exactly. 293 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: The thing that's weird is that the people who are 294 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: hoarding these sites, and there have been a great many 295 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: sightings or ledged sightings. Since those folks aren't all just tourists. 296 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: We are going to mention it tourists later in today's show, 297 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: but uh, several of them are park rangers experts, the 298 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: number one people who would be most likely to not 299 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: misidentify a tiger right or a dingo. They often didn't 300 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: report these things because they felt like it would make 301 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: them seem kind of woo woo or unreliable, et cetera. 302 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: But these reports have been coming in more often than 303 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: you think, and they even continue today. And there are 304 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: a couple of reasons why and you not, all of 305 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: which necessitate the existence of the tiger spoiler alert. Let's 306 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: consider the case of a German guy tourists the clause Emericks, 307 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: who traveled to the area in two thousand five. In February, 308 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: he said he had digital photograph as of a thila 309 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: scene he saw near the Lake Saint Clair National park 310 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: experts looked at this, they couldn't confirm the identity of 311 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: the creature, mainly because the pictures only show the animals. 312 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: But uh, But this incident, combined with these two very 313 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: detailed sightings from three in a remote area called the 314 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: Cape York Peninsula, inspired a group of scientists to set 315 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: up a bunch of camera traps to hopefully catch the 316 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: animal in And for anybody who's wondering what a camera 317 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: trap is, you've seen this footage in so many nature documentaries. 318 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: It's clever. It don't be fooled by the word trap. 319 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt the animal. There's a like kind of 320 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: a a mechanism set up so that if an animals 321 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: walking in the woods and they trip whatever this thing is, 322 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: then a it tells the camera that there's something to 323 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: be photographed, and then the camera takes a photo. Does 324 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: it scare the animal, Sure, it probably scares the stripes 325 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: off of them, but it doesn't hurt them. So it's 326 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: a great way for humans to observe the natural world 327 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: with a minimum amount of invasiveness. Yes, and a lot 328 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: of those newer camera traps just have highly sensitive motion 329 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: detection devices in their or systems sensors, so it can 330 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: just sit there for a long period of time and 331 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: only function in the moments when there's motion. Then when 332 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: you're finished with I don't even know, I guess a week, 333 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: a couple of days of it being out there, you 334 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: just take a card out of it and you've got 335 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: just a huge folder full of pictures, most of which 336 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: have nothing in it. But in this case there were 337 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: some pictures and again pictures of backsides. Yeah, a lot 338 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: of Tasbanian Tiger gone wild content, but they're there. The 339 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: thing is, their findings are not considered proof of the 340 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: persistence of the tiger at this point. Yet sightings continued, 341 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: and you have to if you look at it, if 342 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: you're looking for like a comparison, you will see that 343 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: the phenomenon these sightings has a lot in common with 344 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: a ledged sightings of a sasquatch or or Bigfoot. People 345 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: seem to find what they think is scat uh. They 346 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: might even say they've seen some hair, they see or 347 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: hear live specimens. They discover footprints, right, just like in 348 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: Bigfoot and so on. In July, Australian authorities in Tasmania 349 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: got a report of a foot print spotted by an 350 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: unnamed individual, someone who wanted to stay anonymous, while they 351 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: were walking up to Sleeping Beauty Mountain in the southeast 352 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: of the state. And so every time that people wanted 353 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: to say, I guess they've given up the ghosts, I 354 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: guess the Tasmanian tiger is no more, someone else would 355 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: come in with a sighting and this inspired people to 356 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: search further. To be clear, a lot of people conducting 357 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: these searches, just like a lot of people who claim 358 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: to have seen a tiger, they were not all just 359 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: armchair enthusiasts. They were in many cases genuine scientists, subject 360 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: matter experts in their field. There's another thing I think 361 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: we should add. Australia is like North America in that 362 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: it has a lot of remote or empty space, empty 363 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: in terms of like there aren't a lot of people there. 364 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: So if you are part of a Tasmanian tiger search team, 365 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: you can target certain areas, right, You can kind of 366 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: triangulate based on sightings and say here is where we 367 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: are most likely to see something if it's out there. 368 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: But it's still kind of the old cliche of searching 369 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: for a needle in a haystack, and that is where 370 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: I want to introduce something I think is pretty exciting. Matt. 371 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: We have to talk about the one and only the man, 372 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend. Barry Brooke. Barry Brooke is a 373 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: mammalian ecologist. He's an ecologist. He studies mammals. He's also 374 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: a mammalian, hopefully he's He works with the University of 375 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: Tasmania and he's the co creator of this thing called 376 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: the Tasmanian Philaccene Sighting Records Database or third Yeah. We 377 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: love a good acronym. I love an acronym. You love 378 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: an acronym. Yeah, that's right. So Barry and the SURD 379 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: did something pretty impressive. Uh. He and the people that 380 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: he works with analyzed a ton a ton of sightings 381 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: or you know, signings that were recorded, written down, whatever 382 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: they saw, whatever, they captured, all the reports they analyzed it. 383 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: It was twelve hundred alleged sightings between nineteen ten and 384 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, all of them taking place in Tasmania. 385 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: And guess what they found some surprising things. Oh that 386 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: they did, my friend, they did indeed. So are you 387 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: poking holes already? Okay, okay, okay, okay, no, no, you're 388 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: right you're right. Okay, So here's the thing, and there 389 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: are there are a couple of plots. Was here first. 390 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: This paper, which is legit was released in January and 391 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: it caused a bit of a splash. You can read 392 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: the pre print version online will show you out to 393 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: get there in a second. Uh. It builds a case 394 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: that the thigh last scene did not die out the 395 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: way that most scientists assume, the way that in fact, 396 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: most of the world assumes. There's an excerpt I wanted 397 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: to pull that I thought was pretty interesting that lets 398 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: you know where they're coming from. Quote. Contrary to expectations, 399 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: the inferred extinction window being of the Tasmanian tiger is 400 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: wide and relatively recent, spanning from the nineteen eighties to 401 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: the present day, with extinction most likely in the late 402 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties were early two thousands, and Brooks himself said, 403 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: this was surprising. You want to unpack that a little 404 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: bit for us, Yeah, definitely, because that's a big difference. 405 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: A lot of time went past between nineteen thirty six 406 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: and the nineteen nineties or early two thousand's, And basically 407 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: what they're saying is that we know that the last 408 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: captive THI la scenes died back then in the nineteen thirties, right, 409 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: But there was no way for humans to confirm if 410 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: there were any Thila scenes living, you know, like hiding 411 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: out in the bush somewhere in the middle of Australia 412 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: or somewhere in Tasmania. Um, just because we we humans 413 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't look everywhere, and we didn't we didn't set up 414 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: camera traps then in uh in the nineteen thirties to 415 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: see if they were all in fact gone. Right, So 416 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: we can't confirm fully that all Thi la scenes went 417 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: extinct in the nineteen thirties. Yes, yeah, And we'll also 418 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: later this week discover why that's such a good point, 419 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: and it is there. There's something else though, this is 420 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,959 Speaker 1: not the most exciting part. A matter of fact, now, 421 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: I think this warrants a pause for a word from 422 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: our sponsor and then let's get to the juice we've returned. 423 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: This is to me the most exciting part of the paper, 424 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: and that I did the last excerpt. So I think 425 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: the honor goes to you for this one sure quote. 426 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: While improbable, these aggregate data and modeling suggest some chance 427 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: of ongoing persistence in the remote wilderness of the island. 428 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: We're talking about Tasmania here scratch record scratch. Yeah, they're 429 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: saying that there could be Viola scenes still alive somewhere 430 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: on the island. I know this is at this point 431 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: I think I put this in notes Q dumb and dumber. 432 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: So you're saying there's a chance, right, Uh, But references aside, 433 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: there's nothing dumber about this study. It is legit. The 434 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: preprint version I checked right before we recorded is still 435 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: available at bio r x i v dot org. They 436 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: make a solid quantitative case for their conclusion from their analysis. Now, 437 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: of course this analysis is not conclusive. It's just exciting 438 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: stuff to point to you, but it is legitimate science. 439 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: You can also read a New York Times article and 440 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: a couple other think pieces. They're just saying, stop trying 441 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: to make dialo scenes happen. It's not gonna happen. But 442 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: what what is fascinating about the research that Brooks and 443 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: his team have done is that it means that, unlike 444 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: so many other alleged cryptic cases, there is a slim, tantalizing, 445 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: just possible chance that a relic population of Tasmanian tigers 446 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: maybe alive today. Yes, the odds against this are incredibly high, 447 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: and yes those odds dwindle with each passing year, but 448 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: it's a US like um. It makes me think of 449 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: a missing person's case. You know, people want the closure, right, 450 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: even if, even if they know that closure will somehow 451 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: be tragic. And I think there's some collective guilt amidst 452 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: the humans about this, because evolution made the tiger very 453 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: closely resemble man's best friend, the domesticated dog, and humans, 454 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: I think, in a way feel guilty about knowing that 455 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: humanity was the assassin of this innocent animal, and so 456 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: they want desperately for it to return. And this would 457 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: usually be the end of our episode. This episode is 458 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: going to be a little bit shorter because we wanted 459 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,959 Speaker 1: to make these points and we wanted to save some 460 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: cool stuff for later this week. But we have one 461 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: more plot twist for you, something that may happend the conspiracy. 462 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: Cryptic cart, cryptic conspiracy, something that may have been the 463 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: card entirely, the crypto cart. There it is, yes, thank 464 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: you man, the cryptocart entirely. More and more scientists are 465 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: asking whether civilization has been thinking about these problems all wrong. Yeah, 466 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: what if instead of searching for this animal that may 467 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: well be extinct, and it would just be for not 468 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: you'd never find it. What if we um m hmmm, 469 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: what if we do a little something with d n 470 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: A and Jurassic Park. These suckers mad science uh finds 471 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: a way. Like we've said before, good science fiction leads 472 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: to science fact, you know what I mean. It's based 473 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: on possible innovations. And if you had told a young 474 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: Ben and Matt's back in two thousand five or something 475 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: like that that it was possible to bring an entire 476 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: species back from the dead, our response clearly would have 477 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: been I to love Jurassic Park. I like the franchise, 478 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, dig it, dinosaurs are cool. But we would 479 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: have been coming from a place of pop culture, and 480 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: that is not necessarily the case any longer. But now 481 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: I you know, I wanted to find time to watch 482 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: Jurassic Park again, at least the first one, in preparation 483 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: for this week's series. But I haven't yet. What's the okay, 484 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: so what goes wrong? Just refresh me here? Um? From 485 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: what I remember? What goes wrong in Jurassic Park? I read, 486 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: I read the criton book, um, and I think they 487 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: still have the same problem in the film, which is 488 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: that the the creatures resurrected by this company are meant 489 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: to be sterile, incapable of reproducing. Right, and then spoiler 490 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: alert three to one spoil ler, of course, they do 491 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: end up reproducing because of the way of which they 492 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: were brought back, right. Yeah. The oh gosh, Hey, if 493 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: you're listening and I'm wrong about this, please write to us, 494 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: because I think this is how it went down. The 495 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: dinosaurs were brought back by the little mosquito, right, or mosquitoes. 496 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: They were in amber. There was some DNA or remnants 497 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: of DNA left in there, and then they combined that 498 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: with other animal DNA amphibians, reptiles, birds, I believe, a 499 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: couple other things. That they they made a mixture of 500 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: DNA and reconstructed the dinosaur based on bits of DNA 501 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: that were remnant basically of dinosaurs in all those other species, 502 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: which is a cool concept. I love the idea. I 503 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: just wonder if, my goodness, is that something that could 504 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: Is that something that could really happen? And it's freaking 505 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: me out what we found We're gonna be talking about 506 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: next episode. Yeah, I believe you're right. It's a it's 507 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: a combination of DNA from extant animals that were descended 508 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: from these extinct animals. And there's a great fake explainer 509 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: commercial you can watch that occurs in the beginning of 510 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: Drastic Part full disclosure. Folks, uh Matt Mission Control and 511 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: I just paused recordings so we can watch it together. 512 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: I don't think we have the rights to use it legally, 513 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: but you can find it online. It's d n A. 514 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: It's all the building block and blueprint. If what makes 515 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: you yes, we don't need to use it now you 516 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: nailed it, So stay tuned, folks. We are diving deep 517 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: this Friday into these bold new plans to bring entire 518 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: species back from the grave in the meantime, especially if 519 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: you live in Tasmania, uh, if you live in Australia overall, 520 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: if you have visited or spend time in the area, 521 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. What's your take? What 522 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: do you reckon? Do you think there's any sand to 523 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: claims of living Tasmanian tigers? Have you yourself seen one 524 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: or do you think you have? Do you know someone 525 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: who has? Or do you think it's just the collective 526 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: social guilt of humans? Very clearly killing something that looked 527 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: very much like man's best friend. Actually, I texted, um, 528 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: I know, I gotta wrap it. I texted you Matt 529 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: earlier today on our group chat, just to give a 530 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: heads up that as dog lovers, this one would be 531 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: a downer for us. I didn't didn't feel great seeing 532 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: that footage, not even counting that the poor guy's name 533 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: was Benjamin. Didn't didn't feel super super gast about that one. Um. 534 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: So is it maybe just collective guilt that makes humans 535 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: want to say we can bring this back? Let us know. 536 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: We want to be easy to find online Facebook, Here's 537 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. YouTube conspiracy stuff, Instagram conspiracy stuff. 538 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: Show share your thoughts with our fellow listeners. Uh, and 539 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: if you're feeling froggy in the book front, why not 540 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: take a leap go to stuff You should read books 541 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: dot com and uh, preorder our book which which came out. 542 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: We're gonna get fired if you don't preorder it. Um, 543 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: we may have like be physically punished as well, So 544 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: we are in distress tied to the trade sex. That's right, 545 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: preorder the book. God please no, really, though it's a 546 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: it's a fantastic way to support the show. If you 547 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: if you have the time to read and are interested, 548 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: and you've got the money to support our show, we 549 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: really do appreciate it. If you make that choice, it 550 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 1: makes a great gift, by the way, because it doesn't 551 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: have to be anything special. It could just be a 552 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: Tuesday give it to your friends or your enemies. So 553 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: that's right about. And Hey, if you don't use social 554 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: media and you're not into reading at this very moment, 555 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: but you like to talk, why not instead give us 556 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: a call. Our number is one eight three three st 557 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: d w y t K. When you do call, please 558 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: give yourself a cool nickname. Let us know if we 559 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: can use your voice and message on the air. And 560 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: then you've got three minutes in total to say whatever 561 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: you want to say. We listen to everyone that comes in, 562 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: though we are delayed sometimes so it may take a 563 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: week or two to hear it, but you might get 564 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: a call back. Beware, buy or beware call or be aware. Sure, 565 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: If for whatever reason you don't want to call, why 566 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: not instead consider sending us an email? Those are fun, 567 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: Those are easy. Hey, let's just send one. We are 568 00:37:46,400 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: conspiracy at I heart radio dot com. H stuff. They 569 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: don't want you to Know is a production of I 570 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: heart Radio. 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