WEBVTT - What’s Happening With Crypto in Argentina?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg IHOT podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, March thirteenth. I'd argue that one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most interesting things about crypto is that you can see

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<v Speaker 1>it as a sentiment indicator for how people feel about

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<v Speaker 1>their banks and how they feel about their governments. Diehard

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin believer, probably not the biggest fan of central banks,

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<v Speaker 1>Probably someone very worried about the effects of inflation, Probably

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<v Speaker 1>someone who doesn't like the government telling them what to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Enter Argentina. One of the countries with the highest rates

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<v Speaker 1>of inflation in the world, one of the countries with

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<v Speaker 1>a government that makes it very challenging to move money

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<v Speaker 1>in and out of the country, and one of the

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<v Speaker 1>places with the biggest populations of crypto enthusiasts. These facts

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<v Speaker 1>are absolutely related. Argentina's inflation rate is currently hovering close

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<v Speaker 1>to one hundred percent, yes, one hundred percent. In this environment,

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<v Speaker 1>digital currencies are perceived as a safer bet than the

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<v Speaker 1>peso if you're looking for an asset that will hold

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<v Speaker 1>its value. My colleague Natcho Oliveradal reported on a recent

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<v Speaker 1>study that found that nearly two thirds of the nation's

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<v Speaker 1>crypto investors use digital currencies as a way to protect

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<v Speaker 1>their savings. This popular enthusiasm for digital tokens has not

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<v Speaker 1>surprisingly faced pushback from the country's central bank. And now,

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<v Speaker 1>as the dust settles from the collapse of FTX and

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<v Speaker 1>the global crypto industry is, as they like to say,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to rebuild, Argentine regulators are considering tightening oversight even further.

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<v Speaker 1>NATO is a Bloomberg reporta and a trained economist based

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<v Speaker 1>in Buenos Aires. He joins me now to discuss Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the podcast. Tell our listeners a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>the coverage that you've been doing of crypto and Argentina.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is crypto so popular among your you know, among

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<v Speaker 1>folks in the country. Argentina is one of the nine

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<v Speaker 1>countries with the highest adoption of cryptocurrency. According to the analysis,

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<v Speaker 1>the cryptocurrencies became very attractive, very successful way to avoid

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<v Speaker 1>capital controls. Argentina has had strong capital restrictions during age

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<v Speaker 1>of its last twelve years. Argentine only come by dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in the capital market at a price that's one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>percent more expensive. They can't make transfers abroad or from

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<v Speaker 1>abroad freely. If an Argentina makes transfers in dollars from abroad,

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<v Speaker 1>the central bank will convert these dollars into pasos at

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<v Speaker 1>the official exchange rate and the person will lose half

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<v Speaker 1>of his money. Argentines have learned to live this way

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<v Speaker 1>in recent years, and that's why they have sold for

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<v Speaker 1>an infinite number of mechanisms to bypass government restrictions and

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<v Speaker 1>avoid losing money due to regulations. That's interesting because it

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like what you're saying is they're trying to use

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<v Speaker 1>crypto to get access to US dollars that they wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>otherwise be able to have. Yes, because by buying and

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<v Speaker 1>selling cryptocurrency, Argentines can get out of the peso avoiding

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<v Speaker 1>government rules. They also cancel dollars at a higher exchange

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<v Speaker 1>and can move their money out of the country free.

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<v Speaker 1>The Argentine's expectations about the paso, it's so poor that

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<v Speaker 1>today all of them prefer bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency

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<v Speaker 1>or where the paso inflation here reaches one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 1>per year. So the story in pasos is not a

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<v Speaker 1>good option. So if I'm understanding the two trends that

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<v Speaker 1>you've identified here correctly. You have, on the one hand,

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<v Speaker 1>people facing real restrictions on their ability to move money around,

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<v Speaker 1>especially from Argentina to other countries or from other countries

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<v Speaker 1>to Argentina. And you have the fact that the paso

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be, because of inflation, an even less reliable

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<v Speaker 1>store of value than highly volatile crypto Tooken white bitcoin. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but typically Argentine's use bidcoin either and stable coins. Stable

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<v Speaker 1>coins in this country are popular because Argentine's thinking dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>The companies can currently promote the purchase of stable coon

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<v Speaker 1>as a digital dollars, which is not exactly like that,

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<v Speaker 1>but Argentine's think that by buying stable coins they can

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<v Speaker 1>circument restrictions and have the dollars that the government does

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't allow them to buy. It doesn't sound like that

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<v Speaker 1>would be super popular with the government, though, if you

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<v Speaker 1>have a majority or a large number of people in

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<v Speaker 1>the country being like, how can we work around these restrictions.

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<v Speaker 1>What's been the reaction of the central bank the last

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<v Speaker 1>year the Argentine Argentina's Central Bank email a statement in

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<v Speaker 1>which it provided traditional financial institutions from offering their clients

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<v Speaker 1>or customers transactions with digital assets, including cryptocurrency, are going

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<v Speaker 1>that they were risky. It is now that in those

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<v Speaker 1>days there were different positions on this issue, even within

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<v Speaker 1>the central Bank, but finally banks had to stay out

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<v Speaker 1>of the crypto ecosystem. Now something else is happening. Relators

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<v Speaker 1>start to get involved in crypto issues and are frequently

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<v Speaker 1>talking with the main players of the crypto ecosystem. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the capital market, the Relator and the local Money lander

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<v Speaker 1>In Agency are working to start regulating the sector in

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<v Speaker 1>the first half of this year. So is it that

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<v Speaker 1>they were always going to crack down on crypto because

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<v Speaker 1>people were trying to use stable coins like you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>to evade these capital controls or did some of this

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<v Speaker 1>become more urgent for the government after, for example, the

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<v Speaker 1>collapse of FTX. The Argentina's government changes behavior after the

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<v Speaker 1>fs event. The country's local Relator is a studying launching

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<v Speaker 1>requirements on crypto companies, such as proof of solvegncy. Official

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<v Speaker 1>officials and relators planned to demand that crypto companies have

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<v Speaker 1>similar requirements as others in capital markets, such as knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>of the customers transparency about their activities. Also Argentina's government

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<v Speaker 1>is seeking to strengthen relation before of a visit by

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<v Speaker 1>the global money launder, which is expected for a September

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<v Speaker 1>coming up. More from Bloomberg reporto Natural Olivera dol on

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<v Speaker 1>how the Argentine crypto ecosystem is shaping up post FTX.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be right back. Has the collapse of FTX changed

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<v Speaker 1>or affected the popularity of crypto among the people themselves?

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<v Speaker 1>Are they more concerned about risks or do they still

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<v Speaker 1>think it makes sense given the capital controls you described,

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<v Speaker 1>given the inflation rates close to one hundred percent. Argentina's

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<v Speaker 1>users were heavily affected by the FTS meldown, with some

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<v Speaker 1>of the large local crypto exchanges seen withdrawals of as

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<v Speaker 1>much as twenty five percent of the deposits. The most

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<v Speaker 1>affected by the by this event was Lemons, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the Argentina's large exchange in number of users. Lemon had

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<v Speaker 1>investment in Alamera, the fts found and the panic is

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<v Speaker 1>spread in social networks. We don't know which is the

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<v Speaker 1>size of the proportion of investment the Argentines had in FTX,

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<v Speaker 1>but the industry admit at the end of February that

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<v Speaker 1>there may be more exchanges affected. So one of the

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<v Speaker 1>stories that you and your colleagues have reported on is

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that Argentina has one of the highest percentages

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<v Speaker 1>of people who want to get their salaries paid in crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>which very much relates to what you describe before about

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<v Speaker 1>people wanting options that are not the piso. How easy

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<v Speaker 1>is it to get a salary in crypto in Argentina.

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<v Speaker 1>Argentina has a higher proportion of employees getting paid in

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<v Speaker 1>cryptocurrency than anyone having a salary in pasos in Argentina

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<v Speaker 1>is a punishment or misfortune. Taxes inflation reduced the salary

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<v Speaker 1>in Latin America. It was the first presentation of the

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<v Speaker 1>artists in Latin America received by Argentines, which is today

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<v Speaker 1>well below the average for the region. The government takes

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<v Speaker 1>away thirty five person or more from the gross wages,

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<v Speaker 1>so that seven out of ten Argentines are unsatisfied with

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<v Speaker 1>their salary. The average salary in Argentina is less than

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred dollars. It's well below the five hundred dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in Brazil or the age one hundred and fifty dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in Chile. This means that Argentinian people preferred cryptocurrency over others,

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<v Speaker 1>especially since they can't take them out of the country

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<v Speaker 1>and keep them saved from government threats. Local legislation allows

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<v Speaker 1>local companies up to twenty percent of payment in time.

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<v Speaker 1>This way, many companies improved salaries by offering cryptocurrencies. It's

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<v Speaker 1>so interesting to hear you say that, because in most

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<v Speaker 1>other places, when we've spoken to folks and they're like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we in Miami, people are really interested in getting paid

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<v Speaker 1>in crypto, and then they're like, oh, but they're super

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<v Speaker 1>not allowed. So you know this, it seems like there's

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<v Speaker 1>an interesting difference between on the one hand, the government

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<v Speaker 1>wanting to crack down more on crypto, but on the

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<v Speaker 1>other hand, there's this loophole that is still allowing people

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<v Speaker 1>to get at least some of their salaries in bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>or other tokens. So it sounds to me like folks

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<v Speaker 1>in Argentina are dealing with a combination of local effects

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<v Speaker 1>capital controls, really high inflation rates, incoming potential regulation, and

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<v Speaker 1>also the broader international crypto winter. Do you see in

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<v Speaker 1>your reporting any signs that local enthusiasm for crypto is

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<v Speaker 1>going up or down in twenty twenty three. In the future,

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<v Speaker 1>then system in Argantina is convinced that this will be

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<v Speaker 1>the year of blockchain projects and the physical events that

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<v Speaker 1>day center when I through meda apparent in the ecosystem,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe then more than half of the crypto started

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<v Speaker 1>ups will disappeared due to the scarcity of quidd but

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<v Speaker 1>the projects that give good blockchain based solution will survey

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<v Speaker 1>a speculation is so where it is the time for

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<v Speaker 1>the projects. Great natur Thank you so much for joining today.

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<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate the chance to have you on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so excited that you made it. Thank you for

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<v Speaker 1>our Stacey. That was Bloomberg Reporto Natural OLIVERA. Dol You

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<v Speaker 1>can find more of his reporting on the Bloomberg terminal

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to

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<v Speaker 1>check out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 1>more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>dot net. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina.

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<v Speaker 1>Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed

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<v Speaker 1>Faroup and Sharon Barrero. Our associate producers are Ty Butler

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<v Speaker 1>and Moses on Them. Desta wander Ad is our engineer.

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<v Speaker 1>Original music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie Schml. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>be back tomorrow.