WEBVTT - Halloween Hangover Listener Mail, Part 2 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:14.160 Works dot com. Hey you welnot the Stuff to Blow 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.000 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.160 And as we promised last time, we're back with part 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.280 two of our Halloween hangover a listener mail. We're not 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.880 usually going to be doing two part listener mail back 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:26.720 to back like this, but there was a lot of 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.560 great stuff that came in over the October season related 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.680 to our Monster Science episodes, and we're also just using 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.640 a little help, I think, to get through the Thanksgiving 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.320 week here. Yeah, American Thanksgiving is how, there's no denying it, 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.040 and we have a number of different things cooking here. 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.560 We of course we're continuing to pump out stuff to 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.120 blow your mind, but we also have the Invention podcast 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.920 launching next month, and we've been researching and uh writing 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.440 and recording these episodes so we can start dishing those up. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.279 So definitely keep an eye out for that. Speaking of 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:03.320 strange technology and can traptions, I have noticed that Carney 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.039 is uh not only still haunted. Last time we discussed 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:08.720 a little bit how he's seen. He's got a ghost 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:10.800 in the machine thing going on. And his gears are 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.120 moaning in the in the night winds a little bit. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.399 But have you noticed also a slight elongation of his 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.200 mouth antennae. Oh yes, I'm never was sure why he 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.119 had those installed to begin with, but now they are 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.000 definitely pronounced. Yeah, they're almost becoming fang like in appearance. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.319 One could wonder if he is undergoing a transformation to 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:36.800 robot vampoiism. That may be the case. Um oh, before 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.720 we get go in here too, I want to remind everybody, Hey, 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.320 check out our t public store. That's where you can 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.680 find some merchandise for the show. There's a store tab 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:46.800 at the top of our homepage. Stuffabole your mind dot com. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.680 It's the best way to get to it. We have 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.560 a number of cool bits of merchandise logo designs, but 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.840 also episode centric designs, including I am told there should 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.680 be some new squirrel based merchandise in there for you, 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.080 some nice dark skug Uh content for you to have 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.200 put on a shirt or a mug or a sticker 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.240 or what have you, as well as a potential holiday 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:15.760 great basilisk shirt. So get excited about those. Check those 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.040 out because buying merchandise like this it's a cool way 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:19.919 to support the show. Uh. And of course, if you 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.320 don't want to spend money supporting the show, you can 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.960 also help us out for free by simply reviewing the 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.519 show wherever you have the power to do so. Yeah, 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.720 some merch up or give us some stars. Now should 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.520 we jump right into our first bit of listener mail 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.920 from Joshua, let's do it? Okay? This concerned our episode 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:43.040 about monster slayers the slayer tradition, So Joshua writes in 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.240 to say, Hi, I'm a first time listener and I 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.600 just heard your episode The Slayer. I studied ancient Near 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.880 Eastern myth and the Hebrew Bible at the University of Chicago, 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.720 so imagine my surprise when the first episode I heard 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.240 focused on the myths that I love. You did an 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.280 amazing job discussing the stories. And my only correction is 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.359 that the second A in I guess what I pronounced, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.200 Acadian is pronounced with the long A like hey, so 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.240 that'd be Acadian and I guess this, of course refers 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:16.160 to the ancient Mesopotamian culture, the Acadians. Uh. So Joshua continues, 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.560 there is one thing particularly interesting about the uma a leash, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.919 and this is, of course, the ancient Mesopotamian creation epic, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.440 where you've got the battle between mar Duke and the 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.120 sea dragon Tiamat. Joshua writes, there is one thing particularly 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.840 interesting about the Numa a leash that I wanted to 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.720 tell you about Tiamat. The monster who has slain in 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.720 the story is the sea goddess. The hero who slays 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.640 her is the storm God. When he slays her, he 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:47.120 summons his winds, you remember the evil wind robert Um. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.200 She swallows them, and then he shoots an arrow at 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.440 her belly and she pops like a balloon. This causes 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.040 her body to be cut in half, and dry ground 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.440 appears on which we live. In the creation story, in 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.520 the by bowl, before anything existed, there was just a 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:07.080 chaotic void to who and vo who. God created the 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.680 heavens and the earth by gathering together all the waters 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.920 from that void and then separating them to let dry 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.760 ground appear. When we picture the Biblical creation story within 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.800 the context of our cosmology, we tend to picture a 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.520 puddle of water floating in space. Then a hole appears 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.200 in the middle, and dry ground rises from the hole 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.800 in the puddle. But in the context of ancient near 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:33.000 Eastern cosmology, it's better to picture outer space as nothing 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.560 but water. Think of an aquarium filled with water. Floating 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.080 dead center. In the middle of the aquarium is an 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:44.240 upside down glass bowl with a lid. We live in 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.320 the bowl, standing on the underside of the lid. Everything 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.400 outside the bowl is water. This is why the Hebrew 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.760 word rakiya means both sky and a solid hammered surface. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.279 I think this is where we sort of get the 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.680 idea of the firmament right, that there's like a a 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.080 solid surface up in the sky that you could walk 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.919 around on. Observationally, this works from the perspective of a 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.400 person standing on the bowl's lid. The sky is the 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.000 color of water because there's water up there. The sky 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.200 reaches down to the horizon. If you drill into the earth, 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.200 you find water, and if you go far enough on land, 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.680 you find the terrible chaotic primordial water the ocean. This 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.760 explains why the storm god was often the chief god. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.360 Storms weren't events when the storm god caused destruction for 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.920 humans and needed to be placated so he wouldn't wipe 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.200 us out. Instead, they were battles when the primordial waters 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.680 above started falling back down, threatening to fill the bowl. 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.640 The storm God used the strength of his winds to 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.719 reinflate the bowl, pushing the primordial waters back up above 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.680 the solid sky, keeping the bowl open for us to 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.560 live in. Perhaps it's counterintuitive for us with our cosmology, 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.279 but in the cosmology of the ancient Near East, humanity 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.480 should thank the storm God for constantly inflating the bowl 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.240 and saving us all from drowning. So, in my mind, 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.599 the point of the Enuma a leash was to tell 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.640 the Acadians, don't be afraid of terrifying storms. Instead, you 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.200 should fear the day when the waters fall and there 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.880 is no storm, because that will be the day when 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.720 it all comes crashing in again. I could go on, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.359 but this is too long already. Anyway, great job, and 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:26.400 I'm excited to keep listening. Thanks now, Robert, this raises 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.960 This is a fantastic email, by the way, I love 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.680 all this inside on the ancient Near Eastern cosmology. Uh 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:34.560 And and this fits pretty well with a lot of 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.240 what I've read about about their kind of view of 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.039 the shape of the cosmos and stuff. But one of 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.840 the things that I hadn't considered before is that given 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.960 all of this should we, in fact picture the events 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:53.760 of the Enuma a leash somehow happening underwater, like if 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.880 the Earth hadn't been created yet, if there wasn't yet 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:01.800 an inflated bull. Was this all somehow under the primordial 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.159 total ocean of the void. Maybe this is why the 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.640 deep sea peril movies of the of the nineties resonated 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.520 so is that they're they kind of connect with a 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:17.880 primordial cosmology, the idea that our existence is essentially a 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.320 deep sea abotant. I like that, or wait, are you 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.040 talking about the nineties or the nineteen like eighty nine 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:29.480 under it? But the enthusiasm and the VHS enthusiasm of 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.560 course pills over there, right, Okay, you're talking the Abyss, Leviathan, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.560 Deep Star six, Lords the Deep all that. Oh yeah, yea, 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.600 because I know that's your jam, because essentially all those 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:45.239 stort tales are encapsulated versions of the surface world beneath 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.200 the deep. Yeah, but they're also the stories about space. 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:53.920 They're like they Leviathan is just alien underwater in a way, again, 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.000 making the connection between the ocean and the space beyond 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.480 very nice. I love this. No, I'm thinking of some 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.000 obvious reasons that my my guests about the Numa alis 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.840 here doesn't really make sense because obviously there are winds 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.360 and so like there wouldn't be winds underwater, would there be? Well, 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.560 but there are winds underwater. In a sense, we do 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.280 have tides and crewerrents, I guess, And of course we 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:18.320 also have the movements and migrations of marine species. Not 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.520 that all of that would necessarily be known to ancient peoples, 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.200 but some of it would be, especially if they were seafaring. Well. 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.400 I also think about the deep sea braving nature of 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.040 other ancient Mesopotamian heroes, like if you think of the 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.040 epic of Gilgamesh, one of the feats that Gilgamesh does 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.160 is he walks down to the bottom of the ocean 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.200 to get like some kind of sacred plant he needs. 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:37.720 I can't remember quite why he needs it, but he 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:39.520 needs a plant down there, so he just like walks 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.400 down to the bottom of the sea, gets it, and 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.080 he comes back up. Well, of course we've all That 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.480 reminds me of some of our discussions in the Ancient 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:53.400 Aliens episodes about about the idea that first contact occurs 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.240 with some sort of entity that arises from the d 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.280 oh yeah, so this was something Carl Sagan talked about 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.680 in his work. Now, of course, like us, Carl Sagan 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.480 did not credit the idea of ancient aliens, didn't believe 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.400 in uh you know, the Eric Fondanicken ideas and stuff 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.480 like that. But he was asking the question of Okay, 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.040 if earthlings had been contacted in the past by ancient aliens, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.240 what would the evidence look like. And the closest thing 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.960 he and his co author thought they could come up 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.160 with was this, Uh, I don't remember. Was it Sumerian? 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.640 I think it might have been like a retelling of 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.240 some Sumerian epic or something. It was some ancient Near 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.480 Eastern epic about these beings that came up out of 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.520 the water and brought culture to the people. What was 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:38.840 the name of that entity again? Uh? Oh, honest, yes, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.680 and or Adappa I think, yeah, I just love that, 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.560 and then I find the the the mythic image of 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:50.000 it all all the more haunted. Yeah, that's great stuff. Anyway, Well, 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.520 thank you, Joshua. That was an awesome piece of listener mail, 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.800 and we really appreciate the clarification of the shape of 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.520 the world. Now, should we explore another response to the 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.120 Slayer of episode from maybe this one from our listener Taylor. Yes, 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.520 this is another great piece of listener mail. Taylor rights, Hello, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.520 Robert Joe. I absolutely love the Monster Slayer episode. I 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.040 really like how you tied in the fear and courage 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.960 aspects of the episode. I would like to share a 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.560 personal experience of how a fictional tale of heroics can 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.559 really change the way you respond with threat or whatever 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.520 is generating the fear response. I we actually asked that 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.800 question in the episode, like whether there's any evidence that 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.800 thinking about her mythical heroics makes you more courageous, And 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.000 we didn't find any evidence or like research on that, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.560 but it sounds like Taylor has an anecdote here. Yes, 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.320 Taylor continues, I am a combat veteran and served in 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.360 Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan. We were relieving the unit 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.160 that was taking heavy cashually at Casually and they were 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.680 withdrawn in their stead. We took on the task of 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.760 finishing what they had started, and I will spare the 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.880 details of the actual mission. I was a combat engineer 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:02.000 and I would sometimes spearhead infantry platoon with a handheld 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.000 mind detector, sweeping for explosive hazards. I have to say 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.960 fear was part of an everyday phenomena that I experienced, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.800 and when I was mind sweeping for improvised explosive devices 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.920 UH and old anti personnel minds, I was especially fearful. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.640 But I had to somehow overcome this fear in order 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.280 to complete my role in the mission. The whole time, 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.360 I could only think of what I was doing to 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.800 prevent a catastrophe from taking place by detecting these hazards, 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.880 and I actually recalled the heroics of the old Lord 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.120 of the Ring series to give me a boost encourage. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.400 We had a laptop that we watched movies on and 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.840 had watched all three Lord of the Rings films several times. 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.040 Many acts of bravery took place in those stories, but 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.240 some stuck with me. Boromir sacrifice was one and Ewen 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.600 was another. I personally had always felt a small part 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.880 of guilt for taking part in a war I knew 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.040 little about, albeit I joined the army to pay for school, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.319 and I didn't realize the act sual reality of deploying. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.240 For some reason, my morals had always led me to 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.600 believe that war was inherently wrong. The guilt had always 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.320 played a role in my fear to die. For a reason, 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.400 I did not fully understand what was I contributing to 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.079 humanity by being part of all this. I felt a 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.240 little helpless, and I took myself out of the big 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.720 picture and downsized to my immediate circumstances, which were my 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.000 fellow humans. If I were to die, then let it 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.120 be from my fellow humans, the ones I was sharing 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.520 this unfortunate experience with. For some reason, I could clearly 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.360 recount Owen's bravery against Saron. She was no super human 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.640 or legendary warrior, but just a human woman who only 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.400 wanted to protect those she loved. Her love for her 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.400 friends and family gave her the courage to overcome Saron 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.600 and stab him in the face. Saron, to me, was 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.840 acting like a metaphor for these destructive devices, someplaced by 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.559 Taliban soldiers and others left from previous wars. Like saw on, 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.960 these things laid in wait for the right moment, then 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.320 afflicted terrible destruction on those who came across them. These 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.360 things did not discriminate and killed not only soldiers in 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.640 the war, but also helpless locals. I use these fantastical 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.760 stories of bravery to help me through some of my 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.440 ordeal in Afghanistan, and even though I knew they were 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.040 all fictional characters, they have played a vital role in 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.640 inspiring me to face my own fears and overcome them. 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.800 Sorry for the long response, but it felt good to 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.240 share these considering I don't get to talk about it much. 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.679 Thanks for the wonderful episode, and I look forward to 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.120 the rest of October's podcast. Cheers from Alaska. Well, Taylor, 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.199 thank you so much for getting in touch. These were 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:36.520 really some, uh, some fascinating insights. I don't know if 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.800 I've ever heard that directly. It seems like a kind 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.920 of common thing to be inspired by heroics from stories 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.880 to to do something actually, you know, requiring of courage 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.080 in real life. But I can't think of examples other 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.200 than what Taylor has just given us here. Well, what 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.200 I love about this examples of course that it's it's 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.160 from a combat scenario, so it's a thing that you know, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:58.640 I don't have any personal experience with, but it. But 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.680 of course it's always great to hear from our listeners 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.160 who do, because they can put new twists on topics 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.880 such as this, and uh, it's actual physical courage. By 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.720 the way, I mean a lot of the kind of 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.040 courage I was thinking about people needing in that episode 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.800 was more mundane day to day courage, Like, you know, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.760 if you have a fear of public speaking, you've got 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.920 to somehow get up the guts to do it for 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:22.320 a work scenario or something like that, or you know, 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.280 those kind of mundane things. But here you're actually talking 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.080 about putting your life on the line. Yeah. And I 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.880 also like the idea of associating Saron with just sort 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.000 of the the nature of war, you know, like he's 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.160 it's ultimately what the great enemy is all about. Now, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.760 at the risk of being doubly wrong, I think some 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.360 of our more nitpicky listeners might say, I think the 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.000 character Taylor is thinking about there is the witch king 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.360 of Angmar who gets stabbed in the face by a 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.160 o N. Is that not the case? I believe that 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.600 is the case, Yeah, because that looks exactly what I mean. 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.920 Is one of Sauron's generals or whatever. Yeah, I mean, 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.920 in a sense, it's stabbing the witch king in the face. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.160 It is like stabbing saw On in the face. Yeah, 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:03.960 what are you gonna do? Climb that tower and stab 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.640 the eye? That makes sense? Yeah, there's no face for stabbing. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.920 So uh but we knew we knew what what Taylor 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.200 was talking about. Yes, sorry, I did not mean to nitpick. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.960 This is a great story. Yeah, and it ties in 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.240 because we are going to have other listener mails in 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.840 this episode that involved the Lord of the Rings. Oh 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.320 that's right. Yeah, man, we have got so many excellent 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.880 pedantic Tolkien nerds out there. Uh. I just had to 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.520 say that or I knew that we would get a 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.480 flood of listener mail like that wasn't so on. We 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.520 love you, We love you anyway. Thank you so much, Taylor. 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.680 Uh and uh yeah, I feel free to get in 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.840 touch again. Okay. Our next piece of listener mail comes 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.000 from Zolts result says hello, Robert and Joe. And this 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.360 is also about the Slayer. By the way, I was 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.720 writing to you about one part of the recent Monster 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.440 Slayer episode and the episode you mentioned that babies have 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.360 been shown to be afraid of spiders and snakes, and 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.840 that's the type of fear that sticks around, unlike the 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.960 fear from bears or other predators. I don't really have 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.360 any proof of my idea. It just makes sense to 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.520 me intuitively, if a baby or a youngster is left 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.160 alone in nature for a while or just not looked 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.840 after that closely by the parents, and it is afraid 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.080 of snakes and spiders, it has a survival advantage. If 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.440 a venomous snake comes along and the baby picks it 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.280 up and tries to chew on it, it will most 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.680 likely get bitten, highly reducing its chance of survival. So 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.119 fear of snakes or spiders being hardwired, even in infancy, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.680 can increase the survival rates of young humans and animals. 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.400 On the other hand, if a bear, wolf, or lion, 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.320 or any other large predator comes along, the baby has 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.480 no advantage if it is afraid of them. Obviously, if 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.640 the baby doesn't make any noise, it has a higher 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.360 chance of not being noticed, but that would require a higher, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.760 more specific type of recognition to differentiate between large predators 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.680 or members of its own species or even its parents 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.800 based on limited information, and babies are not really known 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.120 for being quiet when it would be ideal, So being 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.280 inherently afraid of bears doesn't give infants much survival advantage. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.760 So it wouldn't develop evolutionarily, and it wouldn't get hardwired 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.280 into our brains anyways. Just an idea, keep up the 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.640 good work and greetings from Hungary. Uh, I can maybe 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.359 see what you're talking. That's possibility to consider like that. Um, 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.320 you know, the question is like why snakes and spiders specifically, 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.359 especially when they're not the most threatening animals out there. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.199 And the idea could be that if this is a 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.720 hardwired instinct kind of fear instead of a learned cultural 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.800 fear taught by the parents, then that could be advantageous 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.920 to very young children because well, I mean, for one thing, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:42.000 because those animals are not predatory, so they would not 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.760 be usually seeking to like attack a baby. It would 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.639 be more like if the baby stumbles across them that 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.879 they would be dangerous. They would need to know to 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.760 leave it alone. Yeah yeah, whereas like I leave it 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.520 alone instinct just wouldn't really matter in the case of 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.680 a large predator that wants to eat you, because you're 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.320 not going to get away from it and get in. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:02.920 If they were to get away from it, it would 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.320 be it would be the domain of the parents. They 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:06.760 would be the ones who would have to have to 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:08.840 stick him into a cave or a tree or however 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.600 it happened in clan of the cave Bear Um, I 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.600 want to say it was what stuck her into some 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.080 sort of enclosure or the bear you could only scratch 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.440 at her. Yeah, a while since i've seen it, I've 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.240 never seen that one. Basically the same idea that's explored. 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.560 I think in um one of the Ewok movies. Oh, 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:31.600 which one, the one with Wilford Brimley. Maybe that's the 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.240 one I've seen the most. I think maybe that's the 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.919 one because that's the one where she loses her parents, 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.040 her entire family. They just kill off the entire family 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.600 and bring in Wilford Brimley. I think they shove her 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.840 into a tree trunk or something to save her from 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.320 some wild beast. Well at least she got a consolation Brimley. Uh. Yeah, 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.879 so that's an interesting ideas old. Yeah, I'd have to 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.639 think about that. See see what's some evidence for against 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.040 that would be. But yeah, we're we're thinking about Thanks. 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.480 All right, on that note, we're gonna take a quick 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:04.520 break and we come back more listener mail. Thank you. Alright, 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.800 we're back. Okay, we got a big email covering several 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.520 topics from our listener, Dan Robert, do you want to 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.560 read part of that one? Sure? I'm going to read. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.720 I'm just gonna read parts of it and I'll explain why. 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.040 But Dan writes in and says, hello, Robert and Joe, 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.119 a Newish fan here. I found about your podcast back 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.439 in March of this year and have been listening to 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.800 you since then, gorging myself on your mercifully vast back 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.520 catalog heedless of date. Like Baker's Gods are Scott Baker's Gods, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.680 I scan your timeline as a single moment before I 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.800 get along, I just wanted to say I find you 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.800 guys and prior host too, can't forget them to be phenomenal, 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:47.159 and wanted to thank you for being consistently insightful, well researched, informative, 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.639 and at times hilarious. Oh thank you, Dan. Stuff to 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.560 Blow your Mind is, without a doubt, one of my 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.360 top tier podcasts. You guys bring science to the average 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.280 person in a way if you do and will not 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.160 no doubt be classed as one of the better methods 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:03.199 of science communication, an application to everyday life thought and 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.720 fiction of this generation of podcasters. Now at this point 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.879 in the email, um Dan goes on to ask and 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.560 bring up a couple of of issues that have a 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.119 lot to do with the specifics of our Scott Baker's 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.840 um Second Apocalypse saga, the you know, the way the 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.640 God's work in it, the way one might potentially take 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:30.919 Julian James bichmeral mind Um hypothesis and sort of fold 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.240 it into at least one aspect of Baker's work. I 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.679 really enjoyed chatting with him about this and it it 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.320 makes me want to go back and maybe check out 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.160 a few of these things again um in in Baker's work. 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.359 But I do want to pick up on his third 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.280 point that he brought up in the list of mail. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.399 He says, moving on, I don't want to take up 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.520 too much time, so I'll keep it simple. Way back 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.199 in one of your episodes on space not helpful, I know. 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.320 I think it's the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn. Sorry, 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.960 you mentioned how you don't see slow acting, slow thinking 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.120 monsters or aliens and fiction that often. Oh, I think 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.879 this was the Moons of Saturn episode because we were 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.560