1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Hey, please take a second and leave us a review 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to the podcast. 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot. Hey, welcome to Science Stuff, a production 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. I'm hort Jam and today we're answering the 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: question can we hibernate humans? We know bears can do it, 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: some birds can do it, and even lemurs can do it. 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: But could we get a person to hibernate? And would 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: it lead to breakthroughs in emergency medicine, cancer research, and 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: even space travel. We're gonna talk to a biologist who's 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: been studying hibernation in animals for thirty years, as well 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: as a medical researcher who's been working with the European 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Space Agency to see if this would let humans travel 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: to distant stars. So get nice and cozy and get 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: ready to enter a state of science torpor as we 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: answer the question can we hibernate humans? Hey? Everyone do? 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: They were asking three questions, what is hibernation, can we 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: get it to work in people? And why would we 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: want to hibernate a person? It turns out there are 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons why we would want to do that, 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: including maybe letting us explore the cosmos, but first we 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: need to understand what it is and how animals are 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: able to do it. So my first conversation was with 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: Professor Kelly Drew. 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: So, my name's Kelly Drew. I am a professor at 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, and I direct a NIH 26 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: funded center called the Transformative Research and Metabolism. So I've 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 2: studied hibernation for about thirty years, so I'm very much 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: focused on the brain and hibernation. 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: Incredible. I think you're the perfect person for us to 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: talk to you today. 31 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: Awesome. 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: Maybe start us off, how do you define hibernation? What 33 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: is it? 34 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: Well, the big picture of hibernation is that it's a 35 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: metabolic adaptation where it suppresses metabolism and body temperature because 36 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: sometimes they need to conserve that energy if food is 37 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: not available, and many animals do it. Everything from some primates. 38 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: There's the fat tailed lemur from Madagascar. There's marmots. Bears hibernate, 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: not polar bears. Polar bears don't hibernate because they have 40 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: food year round because they fish off the ice, but 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 2: black bears and grizzly bears hibernate. And then there's ground 42 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: squirrels and hamsters, even the common house mouse. If you 43 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: take its food away, it will hibernate. Hummingbirds will hibernate. 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: Hummingbirds. 45 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of different species. 46 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: Yes, hummingbirds hibernate too. Okay. The big question I had 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: for doctor Drew was how is hibernation different from sleep? 48 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: Actually is thought to be an extension of sleep, So 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: at least with hibernation, animals have to sleep to enter hibernation. 50 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: And what I think is that there's a process that 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: kind of flips a switch that allows the temperature to 52 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: continue to cool, and then cold by itself plays a 53 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: role in suppressing metabolism. 54 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: So hibernation is not just sleep. Something else kicks in 55 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: in animals during hibernation, and that causes two things to happen. 56 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: One through metabolism, meaning how active the cells in their 57 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: body are slows down. And two, their body temperature drops. 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 1: And this is a key feature of hibernation because normally 59 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: your body doesn't let your body temperature go down. Even 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: when you sleep, your body doesn't drop below one or 61 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: two degrees of its normal temperature. It's all part of 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: our survival mechanism. 63 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: We all have a point where if we get to 64 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: a certain temperature, our bodies kick in the keaters, humans 65 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: will shiver, we start generating heat. And so the trick 66 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: is that during hibernation, your body allows it to get 67 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: a little bit colder than what we normally do. So 68 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: it's often thought of as well, you just lower the thermostat, 69 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: reset the set point on the thermostat, and you get 70 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: down to a colder temperature, and that temperature helps to 71 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: suppress metabolism. So you go into this kind of state 72 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 2: of nirvana, very low energy consumption, and everything just sort 73 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: of quiets down. 74 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: I see. So once we go into tibernation, our set 75 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: point is set lower, and so the body gets colder 76 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: and that doesn't do any harm to the organism. 77 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 2: Well, the ground squirrel is especially adapted to cold tissue temperature. 78 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: For humans, if our bodies go below about thirty degrees celsius, 79 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: then we can have cardiac arrhythmias, so the heart doesn't 80 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: function all that well. But the ground squirrels are specially 81 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: adapted and their body temperature goes down actually to minus 82 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: three degrees below freezing, wow, minus three celsius, and they 83 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: have no trouble with that. 84 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: So Hibernation isn't just about slowing your heart rate or 85 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: going to sleep for a long time. Something really fundamental 86 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: happens to animals that hibernate. Their entire bodies recalibrate to 87 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: work at a lower temperature, which is something that normally 88 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: our bodies very strongly rejects. I mean, if you go 89 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: below thirty degrees celsius or eighty six degrees fahrenheit, as 90 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: doctor Drew said, your heart basically stops working. But animals 91 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: that hibern need have a special mechanism that lets them 92 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: run super cold. 93 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: And so the ground squirrels have adapted these temperature mechanisms 94 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: so they keep things functioning even in the cold. I 95 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: mean the same thing in your car. You know, you 96 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: change the weight of your oil for winter compared to summer, 97 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 2: so you want a little bit less viscous oil in 98 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: the winter. 99 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: I see, I live in California and I'm from Panama, 100 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: so this is need to me, that's the in fact 101 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: that you need to change your oil. But in Alaska, 102 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 1: I imagine that's a common thing. 103 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: Very common. Yes, So all those kinds of things. Animals 104 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: have adaptations that allow them to tolerate different temperatures, and 105 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: we don't know really what all those are. 106 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: Okay, here I had a lot of questions for doctor Drew, 107 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: like what's happening in the brain of these animals when 108 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: they hibernate, Do they dream or are they conscious? What 109 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: triggers this hibernation mechanism? And then what's going on in 110 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: the brain while animals are in the state. 111 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: Well, like I said, they are first sleeping, but as 112 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: they cool, the magnitude of the brain waves they shrink 113 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,119 Speaker 2: and get lower and lower as the animal cools, until 114 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 2: finally it becomes flat. And that actually looks somewhat like 115 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: being in a coma, but they're not in a coma 116 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: because they can be induced to arouse just by handling. 117 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: But it's more extreme than sleeping for example. 118 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's a different state of consciousness. So cold 119 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: really continues to dampen the brain waves so that then 120 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: they will become flat. 121 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: Meaning like the brain doesn't work at those lower temperatures. 122 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: You don't see any electrical activity. 123 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: That means, so basically the brain of the animal stops working. 124 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: It's almost being brain dead, but not quite. In fact, 125 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: it's something very different. Amazingly hibernating animals have been shown 126 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: to be able to learn while they hibernate. 127 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: And they can learn actually when they're in this state. 128 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: Wow, what do you mean they learn? How can they 129 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: learn if they're passed out? 130 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: What they learn is they habituate to handling. If you're 131 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: like needing to do something with the animal when they're 132 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: in hibernation, you can just handle them, and at first 133 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: they'll be bothered by it, and they'll start to wake up. 134 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: And if you do that over and over, they pretty 135 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: much get used to it to where they just don't 136 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: bother anymore. They're used to it. If you go in 137 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: and handle them, they won't arouse. Wow, And so we 138 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: consider that to be learning. It's called habituation. 139 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's uds like my teenage son when you're 140 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: trying to. 141 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: That's exactly it. 142 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, even though their brain activity is totally flat and 143 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: they seem like they're in a coma or brain dead, 144 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: the hibernating animal can still somehow process what is happening 145 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: to it. It's really a very different state of being. Okay. 146 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: The next question I had was what triggers hibernation. 147 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: We've got animals that hibernate according to season. We call 148 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: them obligate hibernators. So they have a clock in their 149 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: bodies that tell them what time of year it is, 150 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: and no matter whether it's cold or dark, or whether 151 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: they have food or don't have food, they will hibernate. 152 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: And those are the ground squirrels and other species like 153 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: the hamsters are what are called facultative hibernators, and for those, 154 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: the hibernation has to be induced by short days, so 155 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: like what you would see in winter. Other animals like 156 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: mice will hibernate just because they don't have food. It's 157 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: just simply, hey, we don't have any food. Let's chill 158 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: for a while as long as we can, and then 159 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: we're gonna warm up again. See if there's any food. 160 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: Oh, I see, let's just wait it out and see 161 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, what about like bears. 162 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: And bears are a little bit more facultative because if 163 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: it's warm, they won't hibernate. If they have a whole 164 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: lot of food, they don't hibernate. So bears, because they're 165 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: so big, they don't actually get that cold. They don't 166 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: get colder than about thirty degrees see, but they suppress 167 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: their metabolism down to twenty five percent of basil metabolic rate. 168 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: So basil metabolic rate is as low as you can go. 169 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: If you go lower, you're dead. 170 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: Kind of, yeah, you're dead. 171 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: Would you say? That's kind of a definition of hibernation 172 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: is let you basically slow your body down to where 173 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: you would normally be. 174 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: Dead, exactly right. And lots of people like to think 175 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: of it as near death, and that way is very similar, 176 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: and we like to imagine that hibernation is a state 177 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: that kind of is near death, but it can be reversed. 178 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: All right, When we come back, we're going to talk 179 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: about another interesting fact site to sit found about hibernation, 180 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: and then we're going to talk about whether we could 181 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: ever make it happen in humans. Don't go anywhere, we'll 182 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: be right back. Hey, welcome back. We're talking about hibernation 183 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: and whether we could ever do it in humans. And 184 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: so far we've learned what hibernation is, which animals do it, 185 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: what triggers it, and whether animals dream while they hibernate. 186 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: The last thing we're going to talk about before we 187 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: get to hibernation humans is that hibernation in animals is 188 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: not constant. There's a cycle in hibernation. 189 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: And for whatever reason we don't understand animals when they 190 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: go colder than thirty degree c they have to rewarm 191 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 2: every so often. Hamsters will rewarm every three to four 192 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: five days. Ground squirrels rewarm every two to three weeks, 193 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: and we call these interbout arousals. And during that interbout arousal, 194 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: they sleep, so the flat eeg turns into slow wave sleep. 195 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: They make glucose, they urinate just a little bit, they 196 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: fluff up their nest, and they sleep and then they 197 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 2: re enter torpurth. 198 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: Torpor, by the way, is what scientists call that deep 199 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: low metabolism, cold temperature, almost brain dead state animals enter 200 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: during hibernation. But what doctor Drew is saying is that 201 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: animals are not in that state the whole time. They 202 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: kind of stir and kickstart their body every so often 203 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: throughout the hibernation period, and scientists think animals do this 204 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: to kind of do body maintenance. 205 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 2: Something initiates that in about arousal. That evidence suggests that 206 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: it's either an accumulation of something a waste that they 207 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 2: have to get rid of, or a lack of metabolite 208 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 2: that they need, like for example, glucose and so they 209 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: need to make glucose and they can't do it when 210 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: they're cold. So during hibernation, they may need to warm 211 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 2: up to make glucose. They may need to warm up 212 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: to get rid of nitrogen somehow, And so that's what 213 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: we think is that they have to warm up periodically 214 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 2: to do some of that metabolic work. 215 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: So you're saying built into hibernation is this sort of 216 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: periodic arousal where they do a little bit of maintenance 217 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: and then they go back to hibernation. 218 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. 219 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: All right, And now we get to the topic of 220 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: making humans hibernate. And the first question you might have 221 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: is why hibernate a human? Well, according to doctor Drew, 222 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: there are many reasons why we would want to put 223 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: humans in a deep state of torpor. Okay, why would 224 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: we want to hibernate humans? 225 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: Well, the most lowest hanging fruit is for critical care, 226 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: particularly for brain injury. Like if you have a cardiac 227 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: arrest that means like sudden heart failure, you fall on 228 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: the ground and now you're comatose and you get resuscitated 229 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: by CPR. Those people actually wouldn't know it, but they 230 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: ultimately die from brain injury. So even though they can 231 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: bring them back, the brain doesn't tolerate that lack of 232 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: blood flow very well. So if we can induce hibernation, 233 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: there's potential that it could have immediate benefit to people 234 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: that suffer stroke or cardiac or risk drowning or lack 235 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: of oxygen. 236 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: How would that help them, Well, it may. 237 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 2: Just simply prevent the injury caused by the lack of 238 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: blood flow, or it could stabilize the injury while every 239 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: other processes kind of come back to normal and then 240 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: allows the body to kind of deal with it at 241 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: a slower pace at a better time. 242 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: Meaning you just want to slow everything down so that 243 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: the injuries don't get worse. 244 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: Yes, right, having them enter this hibernation natural cooling state 245 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: is expected to be more beneficial. 246 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: I see. So that's one reason we might want to 247 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: hibernate a person in an emergency. Going into hibernation could 248 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: cool the body down going into hypothermia, and that would 249 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: slow the response to the body so that doctors have 250 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: more time to deal with the injury. And this could 251 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: be useful not just in heart attacks and strokes, but 252 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: in any kind of injury where medical care is not 253 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: easy to get. 254 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: So you could stabilize somebody by putting them into a 255 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: hibernation state, and how you can get them to medical facilities. 256 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: It certainly battlefield operations. Same with remote emergency care. If 257 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: somebody falls mountain climbing or whatever and is injured but 258 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: they can't be evacuated for a period of time, they 259 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: could be stabilized by putting them into these states. 260 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: And another interesting reason to hibernate people is to maybe 261 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: save the planet, he said, saving the planet. What's the 262 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: scenario there? 263 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 2: So the other kind of grandiose ideas I've heard. One was, well, 264 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: we can save the planet if you know, we can 265 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: just all chill on a regular basis. We don't drive 266 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: as much, we don't use as much electricity, all these things. 267 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: Like we would all go into hibernation every once in 268 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: a while or every night or what do you mean? 269 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe for you know, like life holidays, Yeah, a 270 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: couple of weeks at a time. I think it was 271 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: inspired by COVID a little bit, because as horrible as 272 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: it was, we definitely saved some things. You know, traffic 273 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: was less and pollution lowered, wasn't so bad. People get 274 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: pretty engaged in the life and hard to say, well, 275 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: I'm just going to cut out for a couple of 276 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: weeks or a month. 277 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: Yes, we could take hibernation vacations. Say you just want 278 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: to check out for a few days or a few months, 279 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: you could hibernate, and overall we would reduce human activity, 280 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: which could be good for the planet. I mean, how 281 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: many of us would like to take a break right 282 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: now and not wake up until the next presidential election. 283 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: And doctor Drew says taking hibernation vacations wouldn't just reduce 284 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: your carbon footprint, it could actually help you dage and 285 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: live longer. 286 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: But what's interesting and hybridating animals is they do live longer. 287 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: Hibernation prolongs life, but you just kind of a pause. 288 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: It's not the wear and tear on the body. You're 289 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: really taking a break and cooling and rewarming. There's evidence 290 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: that it has some regenerative properties, so you can actually 291 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: you know, regenerate synapses, potentially regenerate muscle. But certainly in 292 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: hibernation is interesting because even though they don't eat or 293 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: move for eight months, they wake up strong. Whoa, they 294 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: don't lose any muscle. 295 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: So they live longer, not just because they pause their body. 296 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: But because there's other benefits to hibernation. 297 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: There could be that's still a hypothesis, but we're seeing 298 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 2: evidence of cold and rewarming. The combination of cooling and 299 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: rewarming stimulates regenerative processes. 300 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: I see. You would think that it's just your body 301 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: kind of goes downhill when you're hybrided. But now there's 302 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: something stimulating about hibernation. Yeah, fascinating. 303 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: But you know it's also a wonderful weight loss program. 304 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: What do you mean, what do you mean. 305 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: Well, you don't eat, metabolism is down These ground squirrels 306 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: can double their body weight pre hibernation and then they 307 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: lose all of that by spring, but they're fit and 308 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 2: trim when they wake up. 309 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that does sound like a really good program. 310 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: Well I am all in on that startup. Right, that's 311 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: Fitness Life Extension. Where do I sign a check for 312 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: that investment? 313 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: Exactly? 314 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: That's right. You could use hibernation to lose weight during 315 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: hibernation and the most burnt fat to stay alive. And 316 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: so you could imagine going into hibernation for a while 317 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: and waking up thinner without having to diet or exercise. Okay, 318 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: the last super interesting reason to hibernate people is for 319 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: space travel. You've all seen the science fiction movies where 320 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: astronauts climb to a sleeppond and going to suspended animation. 321 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: But why is that? How does hibernation help with goin 322 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: as space? To find out, I talked to a medical 323 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: researcher that's been working with the European Space Agency on 324 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: this idea. Well, thank you, doctor Huk for joining us. 325 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. I'm very curious a lot your questions 326 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: and to explore with you together, you know, the new 327 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 3: perspectives of potential hibernating humans. 328 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: One day, can you please tell us who you are 329 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: and what you do. 330 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 3: I'm a physician by training during research and mostly about 331 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 3: organ protection, which has brought me to this field of 332 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: spaceflight and how the organisms reacting to extreme environments. 333 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: Okay, now, according to doctor Chuk, there are several reasons 334 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: why being able to hibernate would help humans travel through space. Now, 335 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: you probably think the main reason is the one you 336 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: see in movies, which is that space is huge and 337 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: it takes a long time to get anywhere. For example, 338 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: the near start to us Proximus centory is forty trillion 339 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: miles away and getting there could take hundreds or even 340 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: thousands of years. So being able to climb to a 341 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: pod and somehow good sleep and stop aging means you 342 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: could actually survive the trip. This is true. But actually 343 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: NASA and the European Space Agency are interested in hibernation 344 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: for more practical reasons, and they're looking at it as 345 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: a strategy for shorter journeys like say to Mars. Getting 346 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: to Mars takes a little less than a year. So 347 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: why would we need to hibernate? Well, like I said, 348 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: there are several reasons, and the first is that when 349 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: you're hibernating you don't need to eat as much. You said, 350 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: there are big advantages in terms of resources. Can you 351 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: explain what that means? 352 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, we did a study with the European Space Agency. 353 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 3: We designed the mission of six people going to Mars 354 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 3: and back just theoretical design. What do would that mean? 355 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 3: How much resources do we need? How much oxygen, how 356 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 3: much water supply, food supply, so on. What would be 357 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 3: the scenarios of being under hibernation condition versus another high 358 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: condish And of course oxygen you save a lot, but 359 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 3: the most tracking element is for food. For instance, you 360 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 3: have maybe a twenty percent of fifteen percent of food needed. 361 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: Only Doctors huqu In the European Space Agency calculated that 362 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: for a six percent mission to Mars, where everyone stays 363 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: awake the whole time, you need to bring about six 364 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: tons of food, which is six thousand kilograms or about 365 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: thirteen thousand pounds of food. And that's because the whole 366 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: trip would take about two years, and so you need 367 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: over two thousand, two hundred meals for six adults, and 368 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: there are no grocery stores along the way, so you 369 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: have to bring everything. But then they compared that to 370 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: a Mars mission in which the crew hibernated some or 371 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: all of the way there and back, and the amount 372 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: of food you need in that case turns out to 373 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: be only seven hundred kilograms, or about fifteen percent of 374 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: the original amount. That's about five tons of payloads that 375 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: you don't need to bring. If you hibernate the crew, 376 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: you only need sixty seven hundred kilograms. 377 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 3: Wow, exactly. This makes the difference. And when you just 378 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: think about the implementation of a travel to Mars, you 379 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 3: just need less payloads. Yeah, so this is why agencies 380 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: maybe like it. Yeah, yes, we reduce the payloads. You 381 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 3: need less stuff to get uploaded, and every kilochrome every 382 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: pound costs a lot of money. 383 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: So hibernation would make space travel cheaper. Another reason hibernation 384 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: would help going to space is that hibernation apparently makes 385 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: you more immune to radiation damage. Space is full of 386 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: harmful radiation, some of which comes from the Sun and 387 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: some of which comes from cosmic rays, but it's a 388 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: real problem for astronauts. It means that your chances of 389 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: getting cancer out in space are much higher than if 390 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: you stay on Earth. But for reasons that scientists aren't 391 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: quite sure of, going into hibernation makes you more radiation. 392 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 3: When you relief of vicinity and go the younger fun 393 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 3: old belt and having less protection, you will see more 394 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 3: radiation effects there it will increase, and depending on solar eruptions, 395 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 3: this may even be detrimental. So radiation resistance is a 396 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 3: big thing. 397 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: Doctor Chuke says that scientists in Germany and Italy have 398 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: done experiments where they induce torpor in test animals and 399 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: they found that it kind of protects them from radiation damage. 400 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is not quite clear to scientists. 401 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: Some think it's because your cells are not multiplying as much, 402 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: so there's few chances for the radiation to cause inmutation. 403 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: But it could also be because during hibernation, the body 404 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: is better at repairing itself. And this brings up another 405 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: reason hibernation could help in space travel, and that is 406 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: what we mentioned before in animals. When animals hibernate, they 407 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: don't lose bone or muscle mass. Hibernating animals wake up 408 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: trim and fit and ready to go. But human bodies 409 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: when they're in space start to go downhill and deteriorate fast. 410 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 3: When you stay lower in space, the problems may really 411 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: kick off. It might be either the conditioning of the 412 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: body so you're not experiencing gravity, pull on your bone, 413 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 3: on your muscle, so you get rid of some volume 414 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: that you don't need. The bones are gone muscles. Yeah, 415 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 3: there was a research paper summarizes you need a new 416 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 3: skeleton in the closet when you leave this even when 417 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: you survive. But because your bones get really weak because 418 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 3: of this deconditioning effect that you don't challenge your body. 419 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: And if you had the chance to put someone in hibernation, 420 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 3: these degenerated processes would stop, yeah, or would be wow, 421 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 3: maturely reduced. 422 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about that. So we've seen that in animals. 423 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: Animals don't lose bone or muscle. 424 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: Exactly, they don't lose bone and muscle and wake up 425 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: and up back to the business. 426 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: So to say, clearly, being able to hibernate humans would 427 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: be a game changer for space travel. You could imagine 428 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: hopping on a spaceship going into hibernation, and when you 429 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: wake up, you're in Mars, and not only are you 430 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: well rested and less damaged by radiation, but you feel great, 431 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: maybe even in better shape than when you went to sleep. 432 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: So now the question is can we actually do it 433 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: in humans? Is it actually possible to hibernate people? When 434 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: we come back, we'll ask our two experts this question. 435 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: We'll find out what scientists have done to make this happen. 436 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back, and we're back. 437 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: We're talking about the possibility of hibernating humans, and so 438 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: far we've talked about how hibernation worksimals and what are 439 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: some of the reasons we would want to make it 440 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: happen in people. It could help with emergency medicine, producing 441 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: our carbon footprint and may even have health benefits. It 442 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: could also be a game changer for space travel. We 443 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: heard from doctor Alexander Chuquet, a physician that works with 444 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: the European Space Agency, on what space does to the 445 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: human body, and he listed some of the advantages hibernation 446 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: could bring two long space journeys. The last advantage we'll 447 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: talk about is that it could help keep astronauts sane 448 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: on their way to Mars. 449 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 3: So it takes about two years to go back and forth, 450 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 3: which means you are isolated and confined for this period 451 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: of time together with your colleagues in a small habitat. 452 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 3: So they are adding a lot of psychological factors to it. 453 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 3: There's even a syndrome called the Earth out of side syndromes. 454 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 3: When it's just anticipating, you see the Earth going p sized. 455 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 3: When you are landing on Mars. You can just see it, 456 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 3: but it's very far away and you may imagine and 457 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 3: not long it will take to be rescued or there's 458 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 3: an issue. So there are a lot of factors which 459 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 3: are added. And this is too interesting because there are 460 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: different levels to add on top and on top, and 461 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 3: the question is always how much can we overcome, how well, 462 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 3: can we deal with these sum up stressors and how 463 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 3: is the body able to compensate. You may compensate for 464 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 3: the one, you may comment for the other, but some 465 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: effects and no one really knows because no one has 466 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: ever experienced such a long voyage. 467 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: What Doctor should Care is saying is that going to 468 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: space is stressful. You're always in mortal danger, far far 469 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: away from any help, and on top of that, you're 470 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: stuck in a small space with other people and there 471 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: could be drama if tensions get high. So being able 472 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: to hibernate for most of that journey to Mars could 473 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: really help everyone stay sane. Okay, and now we come 474 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: to the big question, which is can we make hibernation 475 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: work in humans? Well, according to doctor Kelly Drew, there 476 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: are people I think this idea using drugs. So then 477 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: what's the prospect of doing this in humans? What do 478 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: we know about whether we can induce it as it worked? 479 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: Well, there is a lab that is funded by NASA 480 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 2: at the University of Pittsburgh and run by clinician named 481 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: Cliff Collaway, and they are working in people. They're using 482 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: currently known drugs anesthetics that are good at turning down 483 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 2: the thermostat. He's using an anesthetic called dex metatomidine, and 484 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: he sees that it is the best of all the 485 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: drugs used for cooling to suppress shivering. And they're measuring 486 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: how much metabolic savings they can achieve and how comfortable 487 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: people are when they're cold, and they're showing energy savings 488 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 2: and it's not profound, but you know, we're also working 489 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 2: on drugs that target the dentistin system. 490 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: So a dentistine is a super important molecule that's used 491 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: all over your body. It's involved in how we process energy. 492 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: It's part of RNA and DNA, and it's a transmitter 493 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: molecule in your brain. If you drink coffee or tea, 494 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: caffeine wakes you up by blocking a dentisine in your neurons. 495 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 1: And it also seems to be a part of hibernation. 496 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: You can use it to trigger hibernation in animals or 497 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: by blocking it you can delay an animal from hibernating. 498 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: What doctor Dury is saying is that scientists are working 499 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: on drugs that affect this adenosine molecule. 500 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: And part of what we see is a little scary 501 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: from a clinical perspective because there's very low blood flow, 502 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 2: very low heart rate, but we are beginning to think 503 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: that that is part of the metabolic suppression. 504 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: What do you mean, it's scary because it is so 505 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: close to death. 506 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: It is so close to death, it really is. Yeah, 507 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: So it has to be very well understood and very 508 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: well monitored and you know known, because you know, we 509 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 2: don't have all the adaptations that these ground squirrels have. 510 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: We haven't already been optimized to tolerate the challenges of hibernation, 511 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: and so we have to be very careful and understand 512 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: it and know how to manage it so that it's 513 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: you know, it's not risky. 514 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: So we have been experimenting with making this work in 515 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: humans and there are signs that it could work. But 516 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: the hard part is that we're still not sure how 517 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: the whole body process of hibernation should get started, because 518 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 1: in a way, it has to start from inside the body. 519 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: So hibernation it comes from your body. It's not external. Okay, 520 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 3: it starts indulgeously. And this is what animals are doing. 521 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 3: They have no drugs, nothing, They're just there and this 522 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 3: is their mechanisms in start that we don't understand yet 523 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 3: whether they start on the brain, whether they start on 524 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 3: the cellar level, this is still open and under debate. 525 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 3: Transferring this to the humans, I mean today we have 526 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 3: no real real evidence that human is a hibernator, not 527 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 3: at all. But we have also no evidence that who 528 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: human cannot be a hibernator. So the mechanisms might be 529 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 3: still inherited in us. However, how this may work is 530 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 3: completely open. 531 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: Now what's interesting is that there are examples of humans 532 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: that can sort of go into hibernation. They're called yogis. 533 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: You know, the best examples are yogi's. Really well practiced 534 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: yogis can do this. I mean they can lower metabolism, 535 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 2: lower blood pressure. They do that mostly through their breath 536 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 2: and involves a parasympathetic nervous system. And that is something 537 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: also that we see in hibernation is they definitely use 538 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: their parasympathetic nervous system as they enter hibernation. So that's 539 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 2: another nice human example of what's possible. 540 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: I mean, yogis, this is real. 541 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: This is not oh, this is real. This is these 542 00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 2: are you know, life practicing yogis that can lower body 543 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: temperature and metabolism, heart rate dramatically, not eat for days. 544 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 2: I don't know what the record is. It's not in 545 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: the literature as much as it's you know, just stories, 546 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 2: but there's certainly some extreme ability. Also, you know, people 547 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 2: who dive really you know, prolonged diving, breathholding can develop 548 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 2: some of these skills. 549 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: Wow, it's under our control. 550 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: Kind of that is under our control with training. 551 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: Oh wow, fascinating. So that's where we are today. Can 552 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: we hibernate humans? We're sort of at the point where 553 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: we have a lot of knowledge about hibernation in some 554 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: species of animals and we have to dream of making 555 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: it work in humans for things like space travel. Now 556 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: it's just a matter of closing that gap. We need 557 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: to understand more how hibernation is triggered in animals, and 558 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: we need to start testing out whether those strategies can 559 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: work in people and whether our bodies can survive being 560 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: at lower temperatures. As doctor Drew says, it's no matter 561 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: of funding the size of it to learn more. 562 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 2: It's really ripe for discovery, and yet it's also kind 563 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 2: of thinking outside the box and hard to get resources 564 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 2: to do to study. So I appreciate your program. I 565 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 2: appreciate being able to share some of the possibilities and 566 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: I hope people are interested and will support it. 567 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, I'm ready to invest. 568 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 3: This idea. 569 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: All right, we will have to talk, all right. We 570 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. I'm going 571 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: to go take a nap now, but don't worry. I 572 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: plan to wake up before next week's episode. See you. Then, 573 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: you've been listening to Science Stuff production of iHeartRadio, written 574 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: and produced by me or hitch Ham candidate by Rose Seguda, 575 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: executive producer Jerry Rowland, an audio engineer and mixer Kasey Peckram, 576 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: and you can follow me on social media. Just search 577 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: for PhD Comics and the name of your favorite platform. 578 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to Sign Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, 579 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and please 580 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: tell your friends we'll be back next Wednesday with another episode.