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Speaker 1: We welcome to our program, Dr Arthur Laugher, ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: who has prepared a research paper on the Obama health

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Speaker 1: care plan. I've i've I've admired your work, Dr Laugher,

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Speaker 1: ever since I first heard of you back in the

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Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties. It's great to have you here. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. Right by the way, I want

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Speaker 1: to share something with you. You may not know this,

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Speaker 1: but you are partially responsible for Obama becoming a community organizer.

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Speaker 1: From chapter seven, page fifty four of his book Dreams

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Speaker 1: of My Father, there wasn't much detail to the idea

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Speaker 1: of community organizer. I didn't know anybody making a living

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Speaker 1: that way. When classmates in college asked me just what

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Speaker 1: it was that a community organizer did, I couldn't answer

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Speaker 1: them directly. Instead, I'd pronounced on the need for change.

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Speaker 1: Change in the White House where Reagan and his minions

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Speaker 1: were carrying on their dirty deeds, you were a minion

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Speaker 1: doing dirty deeds a million million. Oh my god. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, Rush, but I was on

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Speaker 1: your show in studio in Sacramento, California, many many years ago.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, that's that you know you're exactly right.

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Speaker 1: You impressed me enormously then as well as today. Well,

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Speaker 1: I thank you very much for that. It's mutual. Then

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Speaker 1: I have a summary here of your findings. Uh, let

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Speaker 1: me just run through a couple of bullet points and

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Speaker 1: then you can take it and expand on this. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The current proposals being discussed in Washington House and Senate

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Speaker 1: would raise the total federal government expenditures by five point

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Speaker 1: six percent more than otherwise, adding two out and five

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Speaker 1: point six billion dollars to the deficit in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 1: would increase national healthcare expenditures by an additional eight point

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Speaker 1: nine After all this, it would still leave thirty million

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Speaker 1: Americans uninsured. Uh fill in blanks here for us. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know it's a it's a fairly straightforward when without

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Speaker 1: going through the specific numbers, although I'd be more than

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Speaker 1: happy to do that. You know, whenever you separate people

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Speaker 1: from their purchases, they make If you walked into a

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Speaker 1: store and weren't told what anything would cost and you

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Speaker 1: can pick out whatever you wanted free, you know you're

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Speaker 1: going to be squandrous. You're going to buy things that

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Speaker 1: are way too expensive that you don't want. I mean,

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Speaker 1: one of the ways you control costs is making people

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Speaker 1: responsible for their own money, for their own expenditures. And

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Speaker 1: that is exactly what this program does not do. It

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Speaker 1: makes a separation between the patient and the doctor and

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Speaker 1: health services further and further removed and takes away all

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Speaker 1: control of costs. And frankly, if if I p J.

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Speaker 1: O'Rourke put it, he said, if you think healthcare is expensive,

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Speaker 1: now just way do you see how much it costs

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Speaker 1: when it's free? And that's exactly what we're doing here.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're you're a you're an economist, accomplished economist,

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Speaker 1: and you obviously need a lot of research here. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One of my bugaboos is in a in a political

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Speaker 1: sense that when somebody like it Obama or any Democrat

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Speaker 1: proposes something massive like this, the premise, which is we

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Speaker 1: have to have healthcare reform, is automatically accepted and we

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Speaker 1: start analyzing the numbers and we said, well, that's too

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Speaker 1: much hair is too much in there? Do you do

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Speaker 1: you get into the motivation for people who are behind this? Uh?

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Speaker 1: This monster? Did that interest you at all? Why? It

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Speaker 1: interests me? But it's not in this paper. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's not our purpose. As you say, I'm an economist.

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Speaker 1: I worry about the cost of the program, which are

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Speaker 1: going to be a lot more than anyone else suggests.

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about the access and the availability of the

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Speaker 1: services of the health care and I'm worried about the

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Speaker 1: quality of it. I mean, that's what economists really worry

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Speaker 1: about in this program. It's it's a real problem. Well,

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Speaker 1: your first point about separating people from the cost of

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Speaker 1: things is right on the money. It's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it started fifty years ago with Medicaid Medicare, and it's

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Speaker 1: just expanded and now people consider it a right that

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Speaker 1: their employer has to provide for them. But Dr Laugher,

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Speaker 1: your research is going to add to what people have

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Speaker 1: already learned on their own by reading what's in the

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Speaker 1: House bill. Uh, and they're they're outraged by it. Um.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that your research paper has an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to stop this? Well, I I hope it provides the

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Speaker 1: information in the fodder basically to really make it a

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Speaker 1: lot better. If not stopping it, I mean, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to see it stopped. You know, our healthcare system has

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Speaker 1: things that can improve it a lot, But it's not broken.

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Speaker 1: It provides great health care for many people. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: I think this type of reform, and especially in the

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Speaker 1: direction I think these people are going for having a

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Speaker 1: single pair, I think it's it's really the wrong direction

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Speaker 1: for America to go. I think it will really add

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Speaker 1: costs and up provide a lower quality product. Now you

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Speaker 1: have in your paper a lot of solutions, uh that

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Speaker 1: make health care more available, make it better without destroying

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Speaker 1: what's already good in the system. What are some of those, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of the obvious ones that I think

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Speaker 1: are really big. I mean, I think healthcare providers who

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Speaker 1: aren't doctors, allowing them to do things they're competent to do, uh,

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Speaker 1: and not prohibiting them from doing it. The nurses and

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Speaker 1: other healthcare technicians shots and other things, and prescribing low

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Speaker 1: level medicines and that type of stuff. I think port

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Speaker 1: reform is another one rush that really is a huge

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Speaker 1: increase in costs. I mean, the insurance costs the doctor

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Speaker 1: has just for practicing medicine and how that feeds through

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Speaker 1: and expenses. Uh, it's amazing all of these things. There

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Speaker 1: are lots of things we can do to make our

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Speaker 1: system better. H s A is Health savings accounts is

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Speaker 1: another good example there vstly struck. However, from this from

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Speaker 1: both both houses of the House and the Senate, the

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Speaker 1: h s a s are going to be gone precisely

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Speaker 1: because they do give power and control of the patients. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and it gives you the power of your own money.

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Speaker 1: It's it's money that you put in there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, individual ownership of masurance policies, that's an obvious one.

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Speaker 1: I mean the h s a s as you say,

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Speaker 1: are clear. Uh. You know, interstate purchasing of insurance that

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Speaker 1: that's another one that can easily be done. There are

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Speaker 1: lots of other ones that are in there that really

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Speaker 1: will make the system a lot better. But making it

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Speaker 1: the post office of the Department of Motor Vehicles or

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Speaker 1: making a doctor's employees of government really doesn't make it better. Honest,

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Speaker 1: let me move to the general economy if I can't.

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Speaker 1: For just I love it. We saw the news yesterday

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Speaker 1: tax receipts, corporate and personal near record laws since the nineties. Surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 1: Well it does it the personal question. Uh. The author

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Speaker 1: of the Laugher curve the principle that uh, to a

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Speaker 1: certain point lowering marginal tax rates stimulates economic activity and

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Speaker 1: generates more revenue to the treasury has been proven twice

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Speaker 1: Kennedy and Reagan. It has been and well Bush bush

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Speaker 1: Bush has been proven three times. Does it frustrate you personally?

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Speaker 1: That's something you know works that has been demonstrated to

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Speaker 1: work to the world constantly attacked and tried to be overthrown. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's silly because, I mean, everyone knows that

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Speaker 1: you can overcharge for something and collect less money, and

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Speaker 1: everyone knows you can undercharge for it and collect less money.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a pricing mechanism there and taxes are

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Speaker 1: no different. And it just let's take the healthcare one here, Rush.

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Speaker 1: You know, the President wanted to put a five point

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Speaker 1: four sir a charge on millionaires thinking he'd collect more money.

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Speaker 1: That's about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. If you

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Speaker 1: raise taxes on those people, you're gonna get a lot

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Speaker 1: less people, and they're gonna fig your ways around it,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to collect a lot less money. Dr Laugher,

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Speaker 1: This gets to a question that the point that really

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Speaker 1: really bugs me. You just said it's stupid. Anybody with

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Speaker 1: any economic literacy has to conclude by now, and many

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Speaker 1: knew before it was implemented that the whole stimulus theory

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Speaker 1: was bound to fail. It had no chance. It's never

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Speaker 1: worked whenever you get something for nothing, because you're probably so,

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Speaker 1: I'm back to motivation. I'm back in. This may be

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Speaker 1: an area you might not want to get into, but

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna chance to question. I don't believe they're stupid.

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Speaker 1: I think it's being done purposely for a reason. Nobody

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Speaker 1: is this stupid, not with the history of the world,

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Speaker 1: in the history of this country. Within twenty years as

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Speaker 1: a guide, there's a blueprint how to get an economy

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Speaker 1: going again. It's called get out of the way of

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Speaker 1: the American people, and saddvised them this is the exact opposite.

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Speaker 1: We're losing five or six hundred thousand jobs every month.

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Speaker 1: Consumers spending was up point four percent, but the incomes

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Speaker 1: are down one point three percent. Nothing is working. There

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Speaker 1: is no rescue, there is no recovery. And they're talking

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Speaker 1: about doubling down on this. And I, for one, as

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Speaker 1: someone who understands how wrong this is dangerous, don't understand

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Speaker 1: why it is being continued. Well, I'm not really sure

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Speaker 1: but if you've ever been at the university with fellow professors,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they may be able to manipulate a Fineman

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Speaker 1: diagram or inverted matrix over a Banach space, but they

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Speaker 1: don't know how to pay their lunch bill, and they

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Speaker 1: can't tie their shoes. And what you see here are

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Speaker 1: these types of mistakes are classic professorial mistakes, lawyer mistakes.

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Speaker 1: They think that I could change a lot rush all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden things are working in that direction. It's

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Speaker 1: not true. And they have no idea of the real world.

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Speaker 1: They've never made a bad trade, They've never suffered the

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Speaker 1: humility of their own ideas being wrong, because in their classroom,

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Speaker 1: their ideas are always right. And that's the trouble with

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Speaker 1: this administration. They really don't have a clue. Well, you're

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Speaker 1: being generous. I am. I like I like the people

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Speaker 1: very much. I know a number of them very well.

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Speaker 1: They're good friends. Does Laurens have a clue? I don't

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Speaker 1: think he has a clue. He may be the one

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Speaker 1: that you're right on, by the way, if the other ones.

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Speaker 1: Jared Bernstein, I know him very well. He's a great guy,

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Speaker 1: an honest man. I think he's wrong but he's a

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Speaker 1: great guy. Christina's Romer, She's terrific. Her research before has

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Speaker 1: been great. Christina Romer is an acolyte of you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but she's great on that stuff. And she's just sitting

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Speaker 1: there now in a position where she has to mouth

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Speaker 1: the the the the party line, which is very sad.

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Speaker 1: I watched Austin Gouldsby defend Obama's firing of the chairman

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Speaker 1: of the board of GM. Hello, that's not what a

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Speaker 1: president the United States is supposed to do. Rush, but

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Speaker 1: that's what they were doing. And and the economist was justifying, well,

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Speaker 1: we're a big shareholder now and we Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: it's crazy, isn't it. It is, Well, it's crazy and

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Speaker 1: dangerous because you know when you start attaching motive to

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Speaker 1: this um. I granted you that their prophetsorial and academically stupid, ignorant,

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Speaker 1: but something about this is so bad and so wrong.

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Speaker 1: And there when you look at something that this bad,

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Speaker 1: there there are people going to benefit from it. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at who, then you say, okay, how

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Speaker 1: and but who benefits from this? I see? I don't

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Speaker 1: see the who benefits from these types of classic mistakes

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Speaker 1: unless you're just a power hungry dictating Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: would Kim Jung Ill do this? I mean, seriously, he

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Speaker 1: has done it. His people are eating dogs, they're starving

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Speaker 1: to death. They're doing it in Venezuela. It's the history

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Speaker 1: of the world is a pretty bad guy. They're they're

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Speaker 1: they're not many worse than it. The history of the

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Speaker 1: world is this. That's why the United States is such

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Speaker 1: an exception. If you have a guy who's, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: as a chip on his shoulder about how the immoral

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Speaker 1: and unjust this country was. I tell you what I think.

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Speaker 1: Put in economic terms, I think that the objective Barack

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Speaker 1: Obama is via redistribution, to return the nation's wealth to

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Speaker 1: its quote unquote rightful owners. But you know he's destroying

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Speaker 1: it for the poor, for the minorities, for the disenfranchise. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he's no. No one's doing better with nine and

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Speaker 1: they have tem percent unemployment rate and the participation rates,

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Speaker 1: the average hours, the average wages, the quality of jobs.

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Speaker 1: It's declining like a like a submarine. Well, well, positive

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Speaker 1: positive theory. If your number one signature issue is healthcare

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Speaker 1: and you want it because with it you'll be able

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Speaker 1: to regulate every aspect of every American's life. That's true.

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Speaker 1: What better event could you have the massive unemployment and

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Speaker 1: people losing their health insurance, clamoring for more, clamoring for

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Speaker 1: their health because they're scared to death, they're going to

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Speaker 1: get sick. I think there's a lot of fraud and

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Speaker 1: deceit that accompanies the professorial stupidity. But there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of that. It's hubris, I mean, is what it

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Speaker 1: really is. And their inability to admit they're wrong, because frankly,

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Speaker 1: they don't have to bear the consequences of their own

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Speaker 1: hubris and their own mistakes. That that's the problem. That's

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Speaker 1: a good points. Dr Laugher. This is a great talk

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Speaker 1: to you against It's wonder we're talking with you. You're

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Speaker 1: doing a great job. Thank you very much. You bet haven.

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Speaker 1: You're going to present this paper a two o'clock this afternoon, right,

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Speaker 1: all right, well we'll have were you doing that in

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Speaker 1: New York? I'm in New York? Okay, good well, good luck,

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Speaker 1: and thanks very much for your time. Thank you very much,

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Speaker 1: Dr Arthur Laugher.