Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where our mouths
Speaker 1: are agape after hearing the news that Captain America Hillary
Speaker 1: Knight is unprotected by the Boston Fleet ahead of the
Speaker 1: PWHL expansion Draft. It's Thursday, June fifth, and on today's show,
Speaker 1: we'll be chatting with the Athletics Meg Lenahan and Tamara
Speaker 1: Griffin for a mid season NWSL check in, a big
Speaker 1: picture look at what excites and worries them about the league,
Speaker 1: how to handle growing pains as the prices go up,
Speaker 1: and a dive into the standings. Which top of the
Speaker 1: table teams look primed to stay on top, who could
Speaker 1: challenge from the middle of the pack, and is there
Speaker 1: any hope for Utah and Chicago? Plus a hard launch
Speaker 1: done Wright Night moves and is this keeper the keeper?
Speaker 1: It's all coming up right after this Welcome back slices.
Speaker 1: Here's what you need to know today. Let's start with hockey.
Speaker 1: All six PWHL teams announced the three players they'll be
Speaker 1: protecting during the expansion draft process. As we've said before,
Speaker 1: the fact that teams were allowed to protect just three
Speaker 1: players from the start is absolutely bonkers, and that means
Speaker 1: that these decisions must have been excruciating for the general
Speaker 1: managers and coaching staffs. Some of the protection lists that
Speaker 1: have been released are pretty unsurprising, like Montreal protecting Marie
Speaker 1: Philippe Pulen, Laura Stacey, and Anne Renee Dabien, in Minnesota
Speaker 1: protecting Taylor Heisie Kendall, Quint Schofield, and Lease Decline. But
Speaker 1: the biggest surprise was Boston opting not to protect Captain
Speaker 1: and superstar Hillary Knight, choosing instead to go with Aaron Frankel,
Speaker 1: Meghan Keller, and Alina Mueller. There is so much to
Speaker 1: unpack from this decision, especially given that in her interview
Speaker 1: on this show less than two weeks ago, Hillary Knight
Speaker 1: mentioned her commitment to bringing a p WHL trophy to
Speaker 1: Boston before the end of her career. Now maybe Boston's
Speaker 1: front office was wondering just when that end might be
Speaker 1: given Knight's recent announcement that next year's Winner Olympics will
Speaker 1: be her last, but she did say she plans to
Speaker 1: continue playing in the PWHL. Other surprises include the New
Speaker 1: York Sirens failing to protect Alex Carpenter and the Toronto
Speaker 1: Scepters leaving Sarah nurse vulnerable. Now we just have to
Speaker 1: wait and see if any of those big surprise players
Speaker 1: are willing to negotiate with Seattle or Vancouver or if
Speaker 1: they'll end up getting snatched up in the draft. If
Speaker 1: you want to better understand the decision making that might
Speaker 1: go into when and if players are pursued by Seattle
Speaker 1: and Vancouver during the current exclusive signing window or later
Speaker 1: acquired in the upcoming draft, I highly recommend the June
Speaker 1: four episode of Jackson Jill's podcast. We'll link to that
Speaker 1: in the show Notes to Soccer. The US women's national
Speaker 1: team defeated a shorthanded Jamaic inside four nil and a
Speaker 1: friendly and energizer park in Saint Louis on Tuesday night,
Speaker 1: Ali sent Nora and lynd Biandolo scored two goals apiece
Speaker 1: to lead the team. Meantime, on the other end of
Speaker 1: the pitch, Fallon Tullis Joyce started her second game for
Speaker 1: the US of this international window, recording clean sheets in both.
Speaker 1: She made two saves in the US team's three nil
Speaker 1: went over China and didn't have to make any saves
Speaker 1: against Jamaica. After the game, coach Emma Hayes said that
Speaker 1: while she's not yet ready to name a full time
Speaker 1: replacement for long time time keeper A Lissenaire. She noted
Speaker 1: that Tullis Joyce akaid the octopus is ahead when it
Speaker 1: comes to the current pool of keepers. The WNBA on
Speaker 1: Wednesday announced its first monthly honors of the season. The
Speaker 1: Minnesota Link System Feasa Collier was named Western Conference Player
Speaker 1: of the Month after averaging twenty six point eight points
Speaker 1: per game in six games in May, while Atlanta's Ali
Speaker 1: Shagre was awarded Eastern Conference Player of the Month helping
Speaker 1: lead the dream to a five and two record with
Speaker 1: twenty one point four points per game. The league also
Speaker 1: named Washington Mystics forward Kiki erie Fen Rookie of the
Speaker 1: Month after she recorded thirteen point nine points per game
Speaker 1: and ten point one rebounds per game in her first
Speaker 1: seven games as a pro. A double double is insane.
Speaker 1: Eriefn also responsible for multiple reverse welcome to the WNBA moments,
Speaker 1: as the rookie's been sitting vets on their asses with
Speaker 1: big blocks and sturdy screens since day one of the season.
Speaker 1: Coach of the Month honors went to the New York
Speaker 1: Liberty Sandy Brondello, which feels pretty deserved given that during
Speaker 1: the month of May, the undefeated Liberty led the league
Speaker 1: in points per game, assists per game, defensive rebounds per game,
Speaker 1: blocks per game, three per game, field goal percentage, lowest
Speaker 1: opponent field goal percentage, true shooting percentage, just assist to
Speaker 1: turnover ratio, net rating, offensive rating, and defensive rating. So
Speaker 1: basically all of the stats more hoops news and the
Speaker 1: best kind, especially during Pride Month. Hoops and gayshit Olivia Miles,
Speaker 1: the former Notre Dame standout who transferred to TCU after
Speaker 1: last season, and Matty Westbeld, recent Notre Dame grad now
Speaker 1: in her first year with the Chicago Sky Hard launched
Speaker 1: their relationship with a cat who has a hyphenated name
Speaker 1: in his own Instagram, yep Bean. Miles Westbeld is the
Speaker 1: debonair Kat's son of the two former teammates and his Insta.
Speaker 1: Along with a recent post by Miles featuring a couple
Speaker 1: picks of the two hoopers, canoodling constitutes the official hard
Speaker 1: launch for the Irish duo, commented fellow Irish Hooper Kaylie Watson,
Speaker 1: and the Hard launch I'm in tears with lots of emojis.
Speaker 1: We feel the same way, congrats to the happy couple
Speaker 1: to softba all. The Women's College World Series continues tonight
Speaker 1: with Game two of the best of three series between
Speaker 1: Number six Texas and Number twelve Texas Tech. We're recording
Speaker 1: this before Game one wrapped on Wednesday night, but we're
Speaker 1: sure all of you slices were watching that game live
Speaker 1: along with many other folks. Because the College World Series
Speaker 1: has been drawing huge numbers, The pre Finals World Series
Speaker 1: games have been averaging one point one million viewers, up
Speaker 1: twenty five percent year over year. It's ESPN's most watched
Speaker 1: pre Finals College World Series on record. To tennis. The
Speaker 1: French Open continues today with the semi finals at the
Speaker 1: women's tourney. First up at nine am Eastern Arena Sabalanka
Speaker 1: takes on Igaspontech. Then after that match wraps, it'll be
Speaker 1: Coco Golf taking on hometown favorite Los Boisson of France.
Speaker 1: Ranked three hundred and sixty first in the world, she
Speaker 1: has a fairy tale run to make it to this stage.
Speaker 1: Boissan is the first woman to reach the semifinals at
Speaker 1: her debut Grand Slam tournament since Jennifer Capriotti at the
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety French Open. And she's the first women's wildcard
Speaker 1: entry ever to reach the French Open semis in the
Speaker 1: open era that dates back to nineteen sixty eight. The
Speaker 1: twenty two year old tore her acl last year, just
Speaker 1: one week ahead of the French Open, which prevented her
Speaker 1: from accepting an invitation to compete in the tournament. What
Speaker 1: a comeback for Boisson and what a cool scene for
Speaker 1: her to be doing it in France. We'll link to
Speaker 1: the full tournament schedule in the show notes. Finally, an
Speaker 1: update on a story we mentioned earlier this week. We
Speaker 1: told you about the absolute piece of shit heckler that
Speaker 1: five time Olympic medalist Gabby Thomas had to deal with
Speaker 1: while she was competing at a Grand Slam Track event
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia over the weekend. While on Wednesday, Fan Duel
Speaker 1: told DESPN that the company has banned the man from
Speaker 1: using their services. The man had posted on social media
Speaker 1: quote I made Gabby lues by heckling her and it
Speaker 1: made my parlay win, alongside screenshots of a one thousand
Speaker 1: dollars parlay bet on FanDuel go round and find out
Speaker 1: bro ground and find out we got to take a
Speaker 1: quick break when we come back the state of the
Speaker 1: NWSL with Megan to joining us now. She's a senior
Speaker 1: writer and the women's sports lead at The Athletic. The
Speaker 1: co host of the fantastic weekly podcast full Time with Meglenahan.
Speaker 1: She's everybody's go to journalist for coverage of the US
Speaker 1: women's national team, the NWSL, and all things women's soccer.
Speaker 1: Her dog Dewit's gonna be a big bro because she
Speaker 1: and her wife have a baby do in August fingers
Speaker 1: crossed for an eight to eighteen birthday. It's the best.
Speaker 1: It's Meg Lenahan. Welcome back bag, Hello, Hello, Hello, congratulation,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, very exciting news joining her. The
Speaker 1: other co host of Full Time with Meglenahan and now
Speaker 1: a full time women's soccer writer for The Athletic. She's
Speaker 1: known for not just soccer writing, but also her coverage
Speaker 1: of the intersection of fashion, style, art and visual culture.
Speaker 1: She's a new auntie and she can order you a
Speaker 1: coffee in French and Portuguese. It's Tamara Griffin. Hi, Tamara.
Speaker 2: I'm so flat that I was not ready for that.
Speaker 1: Hi. Can you say swing and Portuguese right now? Ah,
Speaker 1: Bondia and simple enough before we get to the NWSL.
Speaker 1: We have actually a quick hockey tangent. Okay, because on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: the PWHL announced the three players each team was protecting
Speaker 1: ahead of the upcoming expansion Draft, and the biggest surprise
Speaker 1: by far, especially for us having just had her on
Speaker 1: the show and joking about how it would be hilarious
Speaker 1: if somehow she wasn't protected, was Boston Fleet captain and
Speaker 1: Captain America Hillary Knight. Meg, you're a friend of Hillary's,
Speaker 1: you're an East Coaster, and you wrote about this on
Speaker 1: Blue Sky and said, quote personal bias aside, including honestly
Speaker 1: feeling like Hillary Knight belongs in Boston, but just looking
Speaker 1: at it with NWSL glasses on, it's intensely wild that
Speaker 1: a player of this caliber, in this stage of her
Speaker 1: career has essentially no control over where she's playing in
Speaker 1: the lead up to the Olympics too. End quote. I
Speaker 1: totally agree with you, And of course some of that
Speaker 1: is that the PWHL is only two seasons old, even
Speaker 1: though Hillary Knight's pro career is much older than that.
Speaker 1: But what were your initial thoughts when you saw the
Speaker 1: expansion draft rule only protecting three players and the whole
Speaker 1: night all of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it is interesting just because obviously the
Speaker 3: NBCL has done away with the expansion Draft and we're
Speaker 3: about to like live through it from an NWCL point
Speaker 3: of view with Boston and Denver coming into the league,
Speaker 3: and we still need the final rundown of how this
Speaker 3: is going to look without an expansion draft. But the
Speaker 3: PWHL expansion Draft heavily favors the two teams coming in
Speaker 3: like you can build. I mean, Hillary Knight's unprotected, Sarah
Speaker 3: Nurse is unprotected, Alice Carpenter is under unprotected. Like yeah,
Speaker 3: like just the sheer list of names. Like if an
Speaker 3: NWBCL team had come in with that caliber a player
Speaker 3: available to them, I think they would have been weeping
Speaker 3: with joy.
Speaker 4: But it is.
Speaker 3: Really and like, yes, one hundred percent bias when it
Speaker 3: comes to Hillary, I do get the sense that this
Speaker 3: was not anknown thing that was about to happen, and
Speaker 3: there is that period of free agency negotiation, right, so
Speaker 3: like there is maybe that angle, but like if you
Speaker 3: live in Boston and you have your stuff in Boston,
Speaker 3: this isn't an NBA shock trade or anything.
Speaker 4: These players aren't.
Speaker 3: Super wealthy and can just kind of pick up and
Speaker 3: move at the drop of a hat. And it's just
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think like this is why the
Speaker 3: NWSL Players Association has been so thoughtful and intentional about
Speaker 3: realizing how important it is for players to have control
Speaker 3: over where they and free agency was so important to
Speaker 3: the NWLPA. So again, like the lifespan of these leagues
Speaker 3: does come into it. But yeah, heading into her her
Speaker 3: final Olympics, right, like that's the one thing she's announced. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then in theory, you know, maybe potentially having to
Speaker 3: move to the Pacific Northwest in some form or another.
Speaker 3: It's just I don't know, it was it was I
Speaker 3: definitely had a very WTF.
Speaker 1: She said she wanted to keep playing in the p
Speaker 1: WHL after the Olympics and that one of her big
Speaker 1: goals was to bring a title to Boston.
Speaker 4: It's tough. It's tough. It's tough.
Speaker 1: We could keep talking about this because I think also,
Speaker 1: as producer Alex rightfully points out, being a single entity
Speaker 1: owner for the PWHL, you don't really have to please
Speaker 1: individual owners by letting them keep rosters intact. But you
Speaker 1: also don't have players who are maybe going to be
Speaker 1: angry at the ownership of the team. That acquires them,
Speaker 1: understanding that it's the rules made by the larger league.
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, we're gonna do a lot of PW digital,
Speaker 1: so we'll have some guests on to talk us through
Speaker 1: once everything is shaken out and where everybody lands. But
Speaker 1: wanted to get your thoughts on that, particularly because we
Speaker 1: know of your ties to that market and to Hillary.
Speaker 1: All Right, soccer time. NWSL is about to return from
Speaker 1: a short international break, so it's a good time for
Speaker 1: us to kind of consider the league through week ten
Speaker 1: to America, Kansas City Current sitting alone atop the table,
Speaker 1: four points ahead of second place San Diego Wave, then
Speaker 1: the Orlando Pride in Washington Spirit just to point behind
Speaker 1: the Wave. What's your take on the top teams through
Speaker 1: week ten.
Speaker 2: I swear this is not my California native bias, but
Speaker 2: I am endlessly fascinated by what the Wave have been
Speaker 2: doing so far this season. I also don't think I'm
Speaker 2: being dramatic and saying that nobody saw this coming when
Speaker 2: you consider how their season ended last season. And I'm
Speaker 2: not just talking about what was happening on the pitch,
Speaker 2: because a lot of that was informed by what was
Speaker 2: happening off of it, the shock firing of Casey Stoney,
Speaker 2: the departures of Alex Morgan, Naomi Gara, Jaden Shaw. I
Speaker 2: don't think anyone was expecting them. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: that I won't name them, but there were some people
Speaker 2: who projected this team finishing the season at the bottom
Speaker 2: of the table, which is wild but not totally unexpected
Speaker 2: in the end of USL, where we see teams go
Speaker 2: from bottom to top from one season to the next,
Speaker 2: We've seen it before. But the fact that they have
Speaker 2: a new coach and Yonics Adaval who is not only
Speaker 2: new to the way, but new to the end of USL,
Speaker 2: coming over from Europe, which is usually really really hard
Speaker 2: in terms of an adjustment, pretty much a brand new team.
Speaker 2: I think they only have maybe nine returning faces, and
Speaker 2: only three of those have been with the club from
Speaker 2: the very beginning. They have international players, they have players
Speaker 2: who are new professionals, they have young players. All of
Speaker 2: the pieces that really will spell we're going to give
Speaker 2: you t to cook. Yeah, but they've been cooking this season.
Speaker 2: I mean so many different goal scorers. They're on like
Speaker 2: a five or six game unbeaten streak. I am so
Speaker 2: impressed by them. And it's not only what they've been
Speaker 2: able to accomplish, it is how it looks on the field.
Speaker 2: They look unified. They are saucy in the midfield. I
Speaker 2: am all in on Kenza Dali, the French international who
Speaker 2: has just commited. She's like a centripaal force when you
Speaker 2: watch them play. Melanie Barsenas, who is still a teenager.
Speaker 2: I think she just went to prom not too long ago.
Speaker 2: She's been developing beautifully within the club. And like I said,
Speaker 2: nobody saw this coming. They've had so many changes and
Speaker 2: I can see them definitely making it into the postseason.
Speaker 2: Everyone else less surprising because it feels a little bit
Speaker 2: like how the table looked around this time last season.
Speaker 2: But the Wave have been the chakra for me so
Speaker 2: far for sure.
Speaker 1: While you're already offering up titles for the episode with
Speaker 1: Saucy in the midfield, which I love, but also teeing
Speaker 1: up the stats for this team that I had written down,
Speaker 1: which you're right. So last year and they finished in
Speaker 1: tenth place with thirteen losses, we're now in second. They're
Speaker 1: second in goals with twenty one, and they have a
Speaker 1: lead leaguing thirteen different goal scorers, with more than half
Speaker 1: the regular season left to play, just unbelievable. Meg. The
Speaker 1: bottom two teams by a lot are the Utah Royals
Speaker 1: and the Chicago Neutral Colored Stars five and four points respectively.
Speaker 1: Any surprises there for.
Speaker 4: You, I don't think so really.
Speaker 3: I mean Utah, I think everybody did have higher expectations
Speaker 3: of like that run.
Speaker 1: Alle sent Nor driven, right like, I thought that her
Speaker 1: Bangers could alone carry a team that wasn't really buil
Speaker 1: for success.
Speaker 4: I think Ali sent Nor and Minazanaka right like.
Speaker 3: I think those were the two players that everybody, especially
Speaker 3: coming out of She Believes Cup, everybody was very amped
Speaker 3: about the two of them, and then that didn't happen
Speaker 3: for Chicago. I really don't think anything is all that surprising.
Speaker 3: What I've ranted about Chicago a lot, so I don't
Speaker 3: want to like revisit the the same complaints time and
Speaker 3: time again. But it just feels so very unserious. Lauren
Speaker 3: Donaldson may or may not have been a problem, but
Speaker 3: fundamentally that roster build really is one of the main issues.
Speaker 3: Like if they brought in some more pieces, but like
Speaker 3: it just feels like, you know, you have new investors
Speaker 3: come in, they're very focused about a stadium solution.
Speaker 4: Which is great.
Speaker 3: The current you know, news cycle around Chicago is that
Speaker 3: they're now in this equality bill around money for building
Speaker 3: a public stadium, which also isn't even on the table.
Speaker 3: There's no there's no public stadium that's about to get
Speaker 3: built for men's or women's sports.
Speaker 1: Chicago Fire just announced.
Speaker 3: Yes, but that's privately funded, yeah, right, right, public public, yes,
Speaker 3: public money, right, And I think.
Speaker 1: It's the only win they've got, Meg, I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I think it's great that they're getting themselves at the
Speaker 1: table and in that conversation if that comes up, and
Speaker 1: it's about the only thing that they have to send
Speaker 1: out a press release about that isn't just here's the
Speaker 1: final of another loss.
Speaker 3: Right, And so I mean, the nice thing about the end,
Speaker 3: as Tamara already mentioned, is that you can have a
Speaker 3: very quick turnaround. But when you have the quotes coming
Speaker 3: from the general manager out of Chicago that have been circulating.
Speaker 3: Shout out to to Leslie from Kalpals who got him
Speaker 3: on record, who he's very proud about not spending money
Speaker 3: on that roster and for getting money incoming which is
Speaker 3: then not being spent, you just don't see a solution
Speaker 3: coming anytime soon. And like, even if Mallory Swanson, you know,
Speaker 3: post pregnancy, comes back and is the player that we
Speaker 3: all expect her to be, one player alone is not
Speaker 3: going to solve the problems of that team.
Speaker 4: So it is.
Speaker 3: It's disappointing, but it's not surprising.
Speaker 1: It's especially disappointing with Alyssa nay Or.
Speaker 3: Yes, so like listen, I watched her suffer in Boston
Speaker 3: for so long.
Speaker 2: The magnitude of that tragedy. Knowing that she is going
Speaker 2: to end a professional career with the Stars.
Speaker 1: Ah, it pains left out to dry. I know it
Speaker 1: hurts loyalty though it is. It is it is, and
Speaker 1: talk about someone that's good at getting the next generation
Speaker 1: to want more and want better and get through this.
Speaker 1: But she's a better woman than I am. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you that much, Tamor. If you're looking at the middle
Speaker 1: of the pack, which team or couple of teams do
Speaker 1: you think has the best shot to push up into
Speaker 1: the top three.
Speaker 2: I remain intrigued by Racing Louisville, although I do think
Speaker 2: someone needs to check in on their like emotional welfare
Speaker 2: because this deep into the season, we're barely halfway through,
Speaker 2: there've already been two players who have not only gotten
Speaker 2: red cards in games, but had their disciplinary action escalated,
Speaker 2: And for me, I'm trying to not like equate that
Speaker 2: to being a cry for help. I know that Beviannas
Speaker 2: has this team playing a super aggressive style of football,
Speaker 2: high pressing from top to bottom, but I just wonder
Speaker 2: if something's going on there beyond what we're seeing on
Speaker 2: the field, because what I see on the field outside
Speaker 2: of that does have some promise and probably more momentum
Speaker 2: than I see coming out of this team at this
Speaker 2: point in the season. The way that sav Damelo is
Speaker 2: able to draw foul, she's excellent with her free kick service.
Speaker 2: Kayla Fisher prior to getting the red card, I mean,
Speaker 2: even considering it, I think has had a really interesting
Speaker 2: run of form. When Ari Borges comes back, the other
Speaker 2: player who got that red card, I do think that
Speaker 2: they're putting some interesting pieces together, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: be paying attention. I mean, they tend to not make
Speaker 2: too many moves during these transfer windows, but maybe I'll
Speaker 2: be surprised this summer. So that's one team I'm going
Speaker 2: to be paying attention to. This is probably a little
Speaker 2: bit of California bias, but I'm hoping for better for BFC.
Speaker 2: They just started playing Hannah Biebar who they signed a
Speaker 2: few months ago, but in her first game, I think
Speaker 2: she and this is what I've been told even before
Speaker 2: she started playing with the team, that she was going
Speaker 2: to revitalize that midfield. I think there's probably been a
Speaker 2: little bit too much rotation for them to be able
Speaker 2: to build on any sort of consistency. But I'm going
Speaker 2: to be hoping for them just from like a spiritual perspective.
Speaker 2: I hope that I'm right, But right now, I'm going
Speaker 2: to say Louisville is most intriguing to me, and they
Speaker 2: love to crush people's dreams, so I think the second
Speaker 2: half of the season for them is going to be interesting.
Speaker 1: I love that you're digging into the psyches and the
Speaker 1: spiritual wellbeings of those times to the California girl, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Speaking of spiritual wellbeing, we did sort of
Speaker 1: not talk about it on our show, and we should
Speaker 1: have mentioned Kayla Fisher's three match ban for the hair
Speaker 1: poll Meg. We heard Tamara concerned about potentially being a
Speaker 1: cry for help for me, certainly when I see that
Speaker 1: it is so outside the bounds of just I'm frustrated,
Speaker 1: and this is coming from someone that got a lot
Speaker 1: of yellow cards in field hockey. I bumped a lot
Speaker 1: of people. I pushed a lot of people out of
Speaker 1: my way, but it was all in pursuit of the
Speaker 1: next play. When you yank someone and pull them by
Speaker 1: the hair, that is a totally different thing. What did
Speaker 1: you make of that? And it feels sort of I
Speaker 1: don't feel like we've seen something similar in the NWSL. No,
Speaker 1: I think we have, remembering the college gal who like
Speaker 1: lost her mind during that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, hair pulling is definitely not as rare,
Speaker 3: but like there have been some stomps that have happened
Speaker 3: in the NWSL, right Like there, there is absolutely you know,
Speaker 3: people get wildly competitive and things happen. But I do think,
Speaker 3: you know, the NWSL has to send a message here
Speaker 3: of saying like this has to go right, and so
Speaker 3: immediately turning it into a three game suspension, yes, good.
Speaker 3: Could it have even been more like send the message
Speaker 3: now and get it cut out right and so there,
Speaker 3: I think there probably could have been a little bit
Speaker 3: more or you know, like really upping the fine generally,
Speaker 3: player finds are really not that high. But I think
Speaker 3: there does have to be a consequence to like really
Speaker 3: keep this out of bout exactly and so but at
Speaker 3: the at the end of the day, like I don't
Speaker 3: know the physicality piece of it.
Speaker 4: I mean from a from a.
Speaker 3: Racing point of view, I think there is a really
Speaker 3: interesting question of just like why they rely so much
Speaker 3: on physicality and because that's not what I ever would
Speaker 3: have associated Beviana's as a player with. That's not something
Speaker 3: that like when I think about watching her with Seattle Rain,
Speaker 3: that comes to mind immediately. And I believe in her
Speaker 3: as a head coach. I think she's, you know, a
Speaker 3: head coach that the end of cl also honestly desperately
Speaker 3: needs to succeed to.
Speaker 4: Like prove that path exists for players. But yeah, could
Speaker 4: the n.
Speaker 3: OFSL have sent a much stronger message on that front. Honestly, probably,
Speaker 3: but they they have so much going on.
Speaker 1: Sarah, I mean, at least we're grateful about the three
Speaker 1: match band is.
Speaker 4: She's been very star of the show today.
Speaker 2: So waits she called her, I was like, maybe she
Speaker 2: meant bro in the gender expansive.
Speaker 4: I mean that's totally true.
Speaker 3: I mean I do actually refer to her as bro
Speaker 3: frequently in this household, so it's totally acceptable.
Speaker 1: My apologies to w a big sibling. Big sibling. There
Speaker 1: goes Tamaragatham FC, winners of the inaugural conkakaf W Champions Cup,
Speaker 1: a tournament dating back to last season. What kind of
Speaker 1: weight are you putting into that win in that tournament
Speaker 1: and also currently in ninth place with twelve points? What
Speaker 1: needs to happen for them to find similar success in
Speaker 1: the league that they play in.
Speaker 2: So as far as continental tournaments go, this one is
Speaker 2: still very much in its nascent stage. I don't think
Speaker 2: it helped that it happens so close to Champions League,
Speaker 2: which is the biggest continental club tournament that you get.
Speaker 2: I think in terms of the club, they from the
Speaker 2: coach to players have spoken at length about the importance
Speaker 2: of sort of acquiring these sort of continental trophies because
Speaker 2: they want to be a global club, they want to
Speaker 2: be a global brand, So I think in terms of
Speaker 2: that it was a positive for them. I think given
Speaker 2: where they are right now in the NW cell table,
Speaker 2: it's got to be some sort of confidence boost in
Speaker 2: a broader sense. I am not yet going to put
Speaker 2: too much weight into them winning this tournament only because
Speaker 2: it's so new. I mean, Tigress definitely put up a fight.
Speaker 2: From an atmospheric standpoint. They had a ton of fans
Speaker 2: in the crowd for both games in the semi final
Speaker 2: and the final, which is great and obviously something that
Speaker 2: you want to build on. It was an entertaining game,
Speaker 2: it wasn't I think the on field product in that
Speaker 2: final probably wasn't the best. But I know Estaire had
Speaker 2: been on a bit of a gold route leading up
Speaker 2: to that. She's now definitely in competition for the end
Speaker 2: of your Cell Golden Boot, so I think from individual standpoints,
Speaker 2: it was important for her to get that penalty to
Speaker 2: convert it. Hopefully that'll carry over into league play in
Speaker 2: terms of what they need to do to sort of
Speaker 2: get squarely back into the playoff table or just get
Speaker 2: back to where I know that they believe they're meant
Speaker 2: to be. I think they probably need to be better
Speaker 2: at making adjustments in games. I mean, es there, she
Speaker 2: is still on a run right now.
Speaker 1: She started off crazy hot despite that little gap.
Speaker 2: Right but I think that they probably need to be
Speaker 2: a little bit more humble about their ability to just
Speaker 2: do their thing and play their style, and that that
Speaker 2: will necessarily translate to success. I think similar to what
Speaker 2: I was saying about AFC and the rotations, I know
Speaker 2: that Wan Carlos Amorros is spoiled for choice when it
Speaker 2: comes to Gotham's attacking line between Jase, between Midge Purse,
Speaker 2: between us there between oh my god, I'm blinking on
Speaker 2: her name, the really the other saucy one who.
Speaker 4: Wears her soas over. As soon as you said Sleeves,
Speaker 4: I was like, Eli Stevens.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, I get Chicago stars who made it
Speaker 1: out okay to celebrate.
Speaker 2: Yes, Gaby Porcillo when she comes back from injury. And
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. You know, based on what the game needs,
Speaker 2: that will determine who makes that starting lineup. But I've
Speaker 2: seen what I think is an emerging partnership between Jason
Speaker 2: Mitche Purse, for example. What does it look like to
Speaker 2: sort of build on that.
Speaker 1: With It's kind of wild for you to say all
Speaker 1: those names and then realize that the team only has
Speaker 1: twelve points. It's like, what ch'all doing something?
Speaker 2: Let's clicking, let's.
Speaker 1: Figure it out. Yeah, Meg, I was listening to a
Speaker 1: touch more and it's always hilarious to me when Rapino
Speaker 1: tries to explain to Sue Bird Soccer, especially cups like this.
Speaker 1: She's like, Okay, so like Europe is like the CONCA
Speaker 1: calf and then the different leagues are like the countries.
Speaker 1: And then and I was listening, I was like, I
Speaker 1: know what it is, and I'm still confused. So for
Speaker 1: those who are listening, maybe explain why the NWSL would
Speaker 1: want to be involved in a CONCA Cafe W Champions Cup,
Speaker 1: what it is compared to Europe, and especially for those
Speaker 1: who don't even really understand how Europe works. You don't
Speaker 1: have to get too deep in, but just a top
Speaker 1: level idea of how the NWSL, both in the way
Speaker 1: that they abolished the draft and joined the FIFA International Timeline,
Speaker 1: but also in some of these decisions around the cups
Speaker 1: are trying to become part of the global game.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, so NWUSL, right, is a league. There's kind
Speaker 3: of two structures. You have a club structure and an
Speaker 3: international structure. So from a club point of view, everyone
Speaker 3: like all of the leagues then belonged to their federation. Right,
Speaker 3: So NWSL is sanctioned by US Soccer, US soccer belongs
Speaker 3: to CONKA CAF, which is the confederation and represents North
Speaker 3: and you know basically like Canada, US, Mexico and Central America.
Speaker 3: So there is this kind of structure that keeps going up.
Speaker 3: Eventually you do hit FIFA. In Europe, they have UEFA,
Speaker 3: which is you know, truly all of Europe and Champions
Speaker 3: League and I think every you know, casual viewer is
Speaker 3: probably familiar with what Champions League looks like in terms
Speaker 3: of all these clubs coming together playing and then you
Speaker 3: get a trophy at the end of it. So why
Speaker 3: this is actually really important for the NWSL is because
Speaker 3: now FIFA are global overlords have decided that there's going
Speaker 3: to be is that there's going to be a Club
Speaker 3: World Cup on the women's side. So what is interesting
Speaker 3: about that is they had announced it and you know,
Speaker 3: we're kind of chugging along with absolutely zero details, and
Speaker 3: then they had to be like, oh, actually wait, we're
Speaker 3: not ready for this entirely, and so they've kind of
Speaker 3: restructured it so it's an every four year thing, just
Speaker 3: like on the men's side. But what's going to happen
Speaker 3: is that there's essentially like a smaller version of it
Speaker 3: where the champion from every confederation for the most part
Speaker 3: minus one plays in and then you get a club
Speaker 3: World Champion, and then there's going to be a full
Speaker 3: Club World Cup. So Gotham winning this actually is important
Speaker 3: because it gets them into the smaller version of it,
Speaker 3: and it gets them into the bigger version of it,
Speaker 3: which isn't going to happen until twenty twenty eight. I
Speaker 3: really hope your listeners are just like, Wow, I love
Speaker 3: governance talk.
Speaker 4: It's so much fun.
Speaker 1: Actually help me because I was slightly confused about the
Speaker 1: different World Club Cups Club World Cups, and so the
Speaker 1: idea that the smaller one is happening because the bigger
Speaker 1: one wasn't ready, but the bigger one is still happening,
Speaker 1: that all makes sense now. And so essentially, if you
Speaker 1: like watching the US and the World Cup, it's like that,
Speaker 1: except it will be your NWSL team, not mine, because
Speaker 1: I still live for the Chicago Stars, but the one
Speaker 1: that you like might be in it, and then they'll
Speaker 1: play other clubs from around the world and it would
Speaker 1: be awesome. I would love to watch the best NWSL
Speaker 1: against you know, Chelsea and other teams like that. You
Speaker 1: hear about that you know, are great, and then we
Speaker 1: could stop having our subjective conversations, Yeah, which is the
Speaker 1: best league in the world if one of the ends
Speaker 1: up having all the best teams in the finals of
Speaker 1: the You know.
Speaker 3: Though, I will say, what is going to be really
Speaker 3: interesting about this is just in terms of you know,
Speaker 3: one of the biggest conversations on both the men's and
Speaker 3: women's side is player load and the calendar getting more
Speaker 3: and more congested and fitting things in, and so when
Speaker 3: you have these sort of you know, club competitions also
Speaker 3: stacking on top of international competitions, I think there's always
Speaker 3: going to be that cavea of who's in season, who's
Speaker 3: out of season, who's in season right, and so like
Speaker 3: Epipe exactly, and so it like, yes, we are going
Speaker 3: to finally be able to maybe say, like oh, okay,
Speaker 3: an nd OFB sale team versus Barcelona with a trophy
Speaker 3: on the line, But at the same time, one.
Speaker 1: Of those seasons, who's healthy, who's healthy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna I think there's always going to be
Speaker 3: that level to it as well.
Speaker 1: We'll just have Kathy Engelbert pop on over and make
Speaker 1: a prioritization rule like in the WNBA and force people
Speaker 1: to stick around for whatever she most prioritizes. Tamara, you
Speaker 1: guys did a great episode discussing the Unwell FC League
Speaker 1: Supporters group that is headed by Call Her Daddy podcast
Speaker 1: host Alex Cooper. Now that the debut of the Unwell
Speaker 1: FC event has happened, any of your own takeaways or
Speaker 1: maybe standout comments that you saw from some of the
Speaker 1: Supporters Group members that you had on the show that
Speaker 1: stand out to you.
Speaker 2: I will say I was pleasantly something a little bit
Speaker 2: more diluted than surprise necessarily by how thoughtful a lot
Speaker 2: of the Supporters Group members were. I think that you
Speaker 2: could probably characterize most supporters groups in the NWSL as
Speaker 2: super super progressive, if not like straight up lefty. So
Speaker 2: for them to say things like listen, I know that
Speaker 2: everyone is out here just trying to make a buck,
Speaker 2: I understand.
Speaker 4: I have no qualms.
Speaker 2: I'm not holding it against Alex Cooper for wanting to
Speaker 2: get involved in the NWSL, because who wouldn't want to
Speaker 2: be involved in the NWSL right now, I wasn't necessarily
Speaker 2: expecting to hear them sort of preface their arguments with that,
Speaker 2: and that to me speaks to a real sense of
Speaker 2: thoughtfulness that I think at least people who are involved
Speaker 2: in supporters' groups sort of embrace in the NWSL, which
Speaker 2: is nice and I think it gives me some hope
Speaker 2: about how these sorts of partnerships might work in the future,
Speaker 2: especially if others who are interested to have listened to
Speaker 2: or been following the way things went with Unwell. So
Speaker 2: I think that was probably one of the more surprising
Speaker 2: things that I heard, but it was a resounding Save
Speaker 2: for one person that I spoke to who had ties
Speaker 2: to the club team that he was supporting, he wasn't
Speaker 2: an independent supporters group by any means. He formed the
Speaker 2: group with the husband of one of the founders of AFC.
Speaker 1: But people are.
Speaker 2: Skeptical, and rightfully so. I mean, it's hard to not
Speaker 2: sort of view what happened with Unwell and this sort
Speaker 2: of corporate backed supporters group as like a colonial sort
Speaker 2: of thing where you have these like indigenous actors who
Speaker 2: have been organizing and building things from scratch with very
Speaker 2: little resources. Most of them are volunteers, none of them
Speaker 2: are getting paid to do this, who are now sort
Speaker 2: of being imposed upon by people who have been like, oh,
Speaker 2: look at this way to make money let me bring
Speaker 2: myself and my sort of somewhat knowledge of what's going
Speaker 2: on and just make shit happen.
Speaker 4: Sorry, can I curse?
Speaker 1: That just came out? Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: Cool?
Speaker 2: And now there's a question of what happens to the
Speaker 2: people who've been here all along, What does visibility look like,
Speaker 2: what does investment look like, what is partnership with those
Speaker 2: people look like. I will say things have been crickets
Speaker 2: from the Unwell front since that game, And I'm just
Speaker 2: realizing this because you're asking me now, I've barely even
Speaker 2: been thinking about it myself. I will definitely be staying
Speaker 2: tune because the plan is to sort of tour these
Speaker 2: activations around the league, which probably is not going to
Speaker 2: happen until the other side of the summer break. But
Speaker 2: one thing that a supporters group mentioned to me that
Speaker 2: I hadn't really considered is that where Unwell goes is
Speaker 2: also going to be determined by the end of your
Speaker 2: cell club's pre existing partnerships. So, for example, if an
Speaker 2: end of you cl club has already partnered with a
Speaker 2: beverage company, Unwell won't be able to sort of bring
Speaker 2: themselves to that club because there's going to be a
Speaker 2: conflict of interest, So if anyone is trying to sort
Speaker 2: of predict where Unwell might land next, that's an important
Speaker 2: filter to consider.
Speaker 1: A city is one of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Angel City is one of those clubs, for example,
Speaker 2: because they partnered with Yoba Mante. I think they have
Speaker 2: a gatorade partnership one with like a local winery, So
Speaker 2: that was one of the more interesting things I learned
Speaker 2: covering that story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Meg, there's been criticism for things like on WELLFC,
Speaker 1: and I think tamaraw of note in your comparison is
Speaker 1: that whether or not supporters groups are consistently led by
Speaker 1: people of color, which a lot of them are, they
Speaker 1: are often led by LGBTQ plus people or other marginalized groups.
Speaker 1: So whether the comparison goes toe to toe or apples
Speaker 1: for apples when it comes to colonials usually being you know,
Speaker 1: white folks going into spaces and trying to plunder them
Speaker 1: for greed reasons, it does apply in terms of like
Speaker 1: power dynamics and majority versus my minority or at least marginalized,
Speaker 1: So I think it's a good analogy. Mega. Aside from UNWELLFC,
Speaker 1: the league has some giant wins like Big valuation numbers
Speaker 1: and new investors coming in. What excites you and what
Speaker 1: concerned you about the NWSL right now? Because I know
Speaker 1: you and I have talked kind off the record sometimes
Speaker 1: about like what's going on, but then also like, oh
Speaker 1: this is good, there's you know, there's a lot to
Speaker 1: look at.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think it is. I mean it's always
Speaker 3: a big spag with the NWSL, right I think you
Speaker 3: can point to the valuations, you can point to the
Speaker 3: expansion fees. But I also think that there's now this
Speaker 3: kind of I don't know, like almost doom lingering over
Speaker 3: the NWSL when it comes to expansion, because Jessica Berman
Speaker 3: has gone on the record a few times being like, hey,
Speaker 3: we could be as big number wise as the NFL
Speaker 3: when it comes to teams, and everybody's kind of looking
Speaker 3: at that and being like does this league need to
Speaker 3: be at thirty teams right now? So for every good story,
Speaker 3: there's also this kind of big question mark hanging out
Speaker 3: after it, being like what.
Speaker 4: Where where are you going with this?
Speaker 3: Because it doesn't seem to resemble where earth logic would
Speaker 3: necessarily take you.
Speaker 4: So there's that part of it.
Speaker 3: I think what I'm also watching for from the NWSL
Speaker 3: is like, yes, they've announced all the Pride stuff. I
Speaker 3: think the teams are still very into it. But I
Speaker 3: think the nw CL has not yet really figured out
Speaker 3: how it wants to exist in the Trump world right
Speaker 3: at the moment, and so I think there is some
Speaker 3: real cautiousness, and there is you know, I think we've
Speaker 3: been seeing.
Speaker 4: Some quotes about like this isn't DEI and it's.
Speaker 3: You also can't give up on some of the like
Speaker 3: really founding values that the league has has had since
Speaker 3: the beginning, And yeah, that's kind of what I'm watching
Speaker 3: for right now, is just the path that is being charted.
Speaker 3: I have, honestly probably a lot more questions than I
Speaker 3: do sort of feeling confident. I think what has been
Speaker 3: good is watching more kind of like big name partners
Speaker 3: come in the title MLL deal.
Speaker 4: Though I will say the.
Speaker 3: Timing was really funny on that title mull deal, because
Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody else is a dedicated Netflix watcher,
Speaker 3: But over the past like a couple of days, right
Speaker 3: as that deal got announced, the number one show on
Speaker 3: Netflix was about the title Nall Murders in the eighties,
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, no, one's actually thinking about
Speaker 3: like this in terms of tile all right now, But.
Speaker 1: No, I was thinking about how it was like tail
Speaker 1: and all unwell, like our sponsorships are really starting to
Speaker 1: reflect how we're all feeling right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it was like I am an advil Gurley,
Speaker 3: but I can honestly I like the Painkiller front like
Speaker 3: sure it's great, yeah, so's there's good, there's bad. I
Speaker 3: think you know my question for the NB so honestly,
Speaker 3: even you know post Lisa Baird, Jessica Berman coming in,
Speaker 3: after you get through the crisis, right, what comes next?
Speaker 3: And the business side has looked really really strong and
Speaker 3: then departures from the front office. Tatiana, who ran the
Speaker 3: sporting side, is going to leave. Julie Hadden was a
Speaker 3: name that I don't think anyone expected to be departing
Speaker 3: as chief commercial officer, and that was really I think
Speaker 3: someone that if you interacted with her, you trusted her
Speaker 3: and her sort of vision.
Speaker 1: And she was in the ownership group of the Stars
Speaker 1: with me and then left and smartly got out of
Speaker 1: it before the sale and everything else happened so that
Speaker 1: she could divest and go to the league. And had
Speaker 1: worked with the NFL in some really high level places before,
Speaker 1: so it felt like sort of she was going to
Speaker 1: be there for a while. I was surprised by that
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: Right, So there's just a few things, and like I
Speaker 3: think Julie Hadden and I would frequently kind of if
Speaker 3: there is one area where I think we would have
Speaker 3: some really interesting conversations, is just you know, using NFL
Speaker 3: as an example for the NWSL, because I think there's
Speaker 3: definitely some instructive stuff for the NWSL to take. Like
Speaker 3: the NFL is the dominant professional sports league in America,
Speaker 3: you have to be looking at it in what it's
Speaker 3: doing in order to learn things from.
Speaker 1: It, right, And you can take pieces without embracing the.
Speaker 4: Whole correct, right.
Speaker 3: And so the sort of story that I've been kind
Speaker 3: of keeping in the back of my head is the
Speaker 3: nflification of the NWSL, right, and how that seems to
Speaker 3: be the path that they really want to follow, whereas
Speaker 3: you have maybe this alternate kind of like value slash,
Speaker 3: you know, example of the WNBA, and how the WNBA
Speaker 3: has like truly you know, gone mainstream in a way
Speaker 3: that the end of Yousell still has yet to achieve,
Speaker 3: and why they're kind of healing I would say right
Speaker 3: towards the end of the NFL rather than left towards
Speaker 3: the WNBA.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's interesting too, and I've had some really
Speaker 1: great conversations with Jessica Berman. I know that she has
Speaker 1: her critics as well, but she came from men's sports.
Speaker 1: A lot of her reference points and mentors are in
Speaker 1: men's sports. And there are folks who have alleged, and
Speaker 1: I have no idea if they have any factual evidence
Speaker 1: behind this, but that they believe she's working toward a
Speaker 1: return to a high profile job in men's sports. Everyone
Speaker 1: thinks she's angling for the NHL for whatever reason. That's
Speaker 1: just what's out there. I have never had a conversation
Speaker 1: with her about that. And then you look at some
Speaker 1: of the really powerful emerging leaders in women's sport, like
Speaker 1: Jess Smith from the Valkyries. Totally when interviewed at every turn,
Speaker 1: when they say you're going to be running the NFL,
Speaker 1: she says, I don't want to. Yes, I want to
Speaker 1: run women's sports. I want to do that in the
Speaker 1: women's space. And again, I don't think anyone's asked jess
Speaker 1: Berman that directly, so I don't want to mischaracterize anything
Speaker 1: but it is interesting to your point, which ones are
Speaker 1: veering toward. How do we do this differently while learning
Speaker 1: from existing leagues versus how do we compare to the
Speaker 1: things that make the most money, even though they're at
Speaker 1: times at odds with the very center of who we
Speaker 1: are and what we stand for, especially what our fans
Speaker 1: stand for. For those who missed it, by the way,
Speaker 1: the quote that Meg was referring to, jess Coberman and
Speaker 1: the NASCL commissioner told Forbes quote, if you're a business
Speaker 1: person and you look at sports investment as an asset class,
Speaker 1: I do not actually see a world where it could
Speaker 1: be justifiably viewed through the lens of DEI and social cause.
Speaker 1: It is the same fundamental business as the men's leagues,
Speaker 1: who have achieved incredible growth via the same exact investments
Speaker 1: and revenue streams that we've already begun to tap and
Speaker 1: in many ways remain untapped. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: you're seeing the valuations continue to be validated. End quote.
Speaker 1: Now that might be a message to investors that even
Speaker 1: during the time of Trump, this is a good investment
Speaker 1: because we don't rely on social issues. We are a
Speaker 1: league that is independent of that and even if we're
Speaker 1: being criticized or held back by the powers that be,
Speaker 1: we'll still be fine. That's probably best, most generous version
Speaker 1: of that. The other version is why are we running
Speaker 1: away from the thing that has often been what drives
Speaker 1: interest and support for women's sports. We'll have to have
Speaker 1: that conversation another time, because we're running out of time tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Before I we'll let you go, though I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask the same thing of you. What are you excited
Speaker 1: about and what has you concerned?
Speaker 2: I'm excited about the increased globalization of the NWSL. I
Speaker 2: think once teams were given more space to bring in
Speaker 2: players from outside the US, the game got a lot
Speaker 2: more fun because now you have different game styles, you
Speaker 2: have different objectives, especially on the player side, but even
Speaker 2: I mean it's not as new to see this on
Speaker 2: the manager side, but I think that when we get
Speaker 2: more players from Asia, from Europe, from Africa, from South America,
Speaker 2: from the Caribbean, the game just gets richer because it
Speaker 2: was always meant to be played in this sort of globalized,
Speaker 2: diverse way. My concern is to sort of pick up
Speaker 2: from where the two of you left off in terms
Speaker 2: of investment and who is paying attention to the end
Speaker 2: of your cell, who's interested in getting involved. You know,
Speaker 2: we're not going to be under a Trump administration forever,
Speaker 2: and I just have questions about I mean, God willing
Speaker 2: everything right, knock on all the woods, but I am
Speaker 2: concerned about the people who are getting involved right now
Speaker 2: what that's going to look like in the long run.
Speaker 2: I think that there is a very understandable sensitivity toward
Speaker 2: any time that the end of USL is mentioned in
Speaker 2: context or comparison to any sort of men's sport. And
Speaker 2: I think right now feels very much like an inflection
Speaker 2: point where we're going to see those divergences between people
Speaker 2: who are involved in the Indigo cell because they want
Speaker 2: to work in women's sports and those who are drawn
Speaker 2: to the power or even the stepping stone that this
Speaker 2: might provide to get back into men's sports at a
Speaker 2: higher level. I think we're going to get to a
Speaker 2: point where we won't be able to ignore who's choosing
Speaker 2: which path, which I think is a good thing, because
Speaker 2: you want to know what you're signing up for, and
Speaker 2: if you have an owner, if you have a GM,
Speaker 2: if you have a coach who is just viewing this
Speaker 2: as this sort of self contained stepping stone for them professionally.
Speaker 2: It's going to become clear because I think we're going
Speaker 2: to see that reflected in the table, We're going to
Speaker 2: see that reflected in investment. We're going to see that
Speaker 2: reflected into the success of these teams, which of course
Speaker 2: is going to lead to revenue down the line. And
Speaker 2: I think that's a good thing, because I'd rather know
Speaker 2: what people are about from jump rather than having to
Speaker 2: find out the hard way. So it's a concern, but
Speaker 2: refreshing kind of I think.
Speaker 1: So my concern is the same as yours, and I
Speaker 1: think it also ends up rolling out to decision making
Speaker 1: down the line if you end up getting too many
Speaker 1: people in there that are about either the stepping stone
Speaker 1: or just about not quite having the money to be
Speaker 1: a pro men's owner, but having the money to be
Speaker 1: in the women's game, and then having their morals and
Speaker 1: ideas and principles reflected in that team, and the way
Speaker 1: it affects the league. I think the growing pains are
Speaker 1: the thing that concerns me most. We want investment, we
Speaker 1: want women to get paid, we want the league to
Speaker 1: be successful, and we want our cake and eat it too.
Speaker 1: And have it still be a league that we feel
Speaker 1: aligned with and represents us in our values. And that's hard.
Speaker 1: There's just not a lot of cool rich people. They're honest,
Speaker 1: good rich people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I cool.
Speaker 1: Good, Yeah, kind, well meaning. The people who become billionaires
Speaker 1: become them for a reason. There's like a couple that
Speaker 1: are probably okay, and the rest of them like weren't
Speaker 1: cool with many millions, why you have to ask that question,
Speaker 1: why did you need more than that? And how are
Speaker 1: you ever going to reconcile that with the kind of
Speaker 1: things that this league and women's sports kind of stand for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think it is really interesting. Just I
Speaker 3: think just the the end of you cell in general, right,
Speaker 3: and supporters in general, do have this true desire to
Speaker 3: want end of you sell owners to be you know,
Speaker 3: value aligned, sort of morally good, and that those days
Speaker 3: were never present in the league, right, Like, that's the
Speaker 3: part of the problem, is we the end of your
Speaker 3: cell never had and then I think there was that
Speaker 3: kind of over correction and now as the money flows in, right,
Speaker 3: it's just it's not possible, and so there has to
Speaker 3: be a line of a you know, reading owners like
Speaker 3: a Michelle Kang right in good faith because I do
Speaker 3: think based on every interaction, Yes, she is rich, she
Speaker 3: has a lot of money. She is so many gruithless
Speaker 3: like great fashion right, like she is ruthless. I think
Speaker 3: she is good, well intentioned, but like not above critique, right,
Speaker 3: and like she's not going to get everything right. She's
Speaker 3: not going to do stuff that every fan agrees with
Speaker 3: all of the time. And so you like you just
Speaker 3: have to have a whole bunch of things be true
Speaker 3: at the same time, and that when it comes to ownership,
Speaker 3: it's just really it's really hard to grapple with.
Speaker 1: And I try to keep myself always full of questions
Speaker 1: instead of just definitive feelings, because I guarantee that some
Speaker 1: of these folks would say, if you came into a
Speaker 1: room and now you gave me five hours to explain
Speaker 1: to you, why can't be exactly what you want all
Speaker 1: the time and also get the money and the players
Speaker 1: and the stadium and the things that you want, you
Speaker 1: might understand it a little more. That's not a release
Speaker 1: to be a terrible person and make terrible things. But
Speaker 1: there is that balance of like sometimes the people that
Speaker 1: are successful, they do have to have a give and
Speaker 1: take with stuff that those of us who don't want
Speaker 1: to be put in those positions and making those decisions
Speaker 1: would be unwilling to make. And you know, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's so much more I want to talk about, because
Speaker 1: now you brought up the fact that Michelle Kank's coach
Speaker 1: is going to a different Michelle Kank King and we
Speaker 1: never got to talk about that, and we never got
Speaker 1: to talk about whether Emma Hayes has a particular ie
Speaker 1: for folks that are playing in European leagues instead of
Speaker 1: American and that's why she's playing them a little bit more.
Speaker 1: But we'll have to have you back, so thank you
Speaker 1: so much for the time. I always love catching up
Speaker 1: with both of you. Everybody, of course already is listening
Speaker 1: to Full Time with Meg Glenham, but if they aren't,
Speaker 1: what the hell are you doing? You could be listening
Speaker 1: to this once a week and sometimes more, depending on
Speaker 1: if you listen to the other elements of the podcast
Speaker 1: that come out every Monday, which I always listen to.
Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you so much for coming out, Thanks
Speaker 1: for having us. We got to take another break when
Speaker 1: we come back. We take credit for the WNBA's newest viewer,
Speaker 1: stick around, Welcome back, slicas. We love that you're listening,
Speaker 1: but we want you to get in the game every
Speaker 1: day too, So here's our good game play of the day.
Speaker 1: Listen to Wednesday's episode of Full Time with Meglenahan called
Speaker 1: is Michelle Kang's multi club ownership good for women's soccer?
Speaker 1: As you could tell, there was so much I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk to Megan Tamaherr about, and as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: the news that the Washington Spirits head coach Jonathan Heraldaz
Speaker 1: is headed to another of Michelle Kank's teams, ohel Leon
Speaker 1: was one of those things I wanted to talk about.
Speaker 1: So I guess instead of listening to me ask Megan
Speaker 1: Tamayor about it, go listen to them discuss it on
Speaker 1: their pod. Instead. We'll link to that episode in the
Speaker 1: show notes. And we always love to hear from you,
Speaker 1: so hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork
Speaker 1: dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven
Speaker 1: two two oh four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and review, y'all. It's real easy. Just take it
Speaker 1: from these slices who didn't forget and who left us
Speaker 1: five stars. Jay Bing five one two wrote, quote nailing it.
Speaker 1: I've been a fan of Sarah's work for a long
Speaker 1: time and was psyched to see this pod. This team's
Speaker 1: attention to detail and intersectional lens make this an essential
Speaker 1: and fun listen for any women's sports fan. Thank you
Speaker 1: or l Robinson ten thirty, who said, quote my favorite
Speaker 1: sports show. I've listened to many podcasts about my favorite
Speaker 1: sports teams over the years, but this one does an
Speaker 1: amazing job at pulling me into leagues I'm not even
Speaker 1: familiar with. I've been a big NWSL fan, but this
Speaker 1: year I've enjoyed watching the p WHL and look forward
Speaker 1: to watching my first season of the WNBA. End quote. Ah,
Speaker 1: we love a WNBA virgin. Enjoy the ride, El Robinson,
Speaker 1: and thanks to both of you for writing in. Now
Speaker 1: it's your turn slices. If you haven't done it yet,
Speaker 1: come on rate and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Good game, Good game, Tamara, You rich people that aren't
Speaker 1: cool or kind? Good Game with Sarah Spain is an
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You could find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
Speaker 1: and Emily Rutterer. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy
Speaker 1: Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain