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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace vanished in Montana, Beautiful Ashley

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Speaker 1: Louring heavy Runner family makes a desperate PLEA tonight, good evening.

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Ashley heavy Runner is a bright, funny student preparing for

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Speaker 2: a better future until one day she vanishes in Brownie,

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Speaker 2: Montana and has never heard from again.

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Speaker 1: I always think of Montana as this beautiful oasis really

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Speaker 1: with mountains and prairies, wildlife. I don't think of it

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Speaker 1: as high crime. I want to go to Montana. I

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Speaker 1: want to hike in Montana. I want to breathe in

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Speaker 1: the fresh air of Montana. I don't want to investigate

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Speaker 1: a missing person's case in Montana. That's like somebody goes

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Speaker 1: missing at Disneyland. It just doesn't compute, but yet it happened.

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Speaker 1: Joining us an all star panel including a special guest,

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Speaker 1: Kimberly Louring heavy Runner. This is Ashley's sister. But before

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Speaker 1: I go to miss Kimberly straight to Dave Matt, crime

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Speaker 1: Story's investigative reporter. Dave just explain to everyone what we

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Speaker 1: know of how sister Ashley seemingly disappeared.

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Speaker 3: What we know, Nancy, is that Ashley leaves her mother's

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Speaker 3: house to partner's friends at home. She's actually videotaped at

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Speaker 3: this twenty year old college student videotape at the party,

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Speaker 3: sitting on a couch just like anybody else. But it's

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Speaker 3: that night that's the last time we have any videotape

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Speaker 3: of her, any pictures of her, because Ashley leaves the

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Speaker 3: party with someone and vanishes. We don't see her again.

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Speaker 1: And it's really interesting that Ashley had planned to leave

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Speaker 1: the reservation and start out fresh with her sister in Missilla.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that true? She was on the cusp of leaving.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, her sister, Kimberly was out of the country at

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Speaker 3: the time, but they were preparing to get together and

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Speaker 3: move in together. Ashley was excited, Kimberly was excited about

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Speaker 3: the two of them living together, and actually had a

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Speaker 3: really good goal plan set up for what she was

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Speaker 3: going to do with college and beyond that. Nancy, So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is on the cusp of a young adulthood that

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Speaker 3: is with really good stuff.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're telling me she was last seeing at a party.

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Speaker 3: Yes, with friends, party.

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Speaker 1: With friends, Okay, Then explain to me about the plans

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Speaker 1: they had they were planning to start over fresh, and

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Speaker 1: that she had returned from a trip up and the

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Speaker 1: family didn't hurt hear from her. Now those both can

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Speaker 1: be true. She could have gotten back from a trip

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Speaker 1: and went to a party.

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Speaker 3: Kimberly was out of the country when Ashley went missing.

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Speaker 3: Kimberly actually face message Facebook message with Ashley, but Kimberly,

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Speaker 3: the oldest, is the sister she was out of the country.

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Speaker 3: Ashley was in Browning, Montana, at her mother's house and

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Speaker 3: on the Blackfeet Reservation. Ashley was going to a party

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Speaker 3: with friends that night. Kimberly was coming back from Auntrey

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Speaker 3: and it was Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 1: For some reason, I thought that Kimberly was also at

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Speaker 1: the party. Okay, now I understand, Okay, very slowly, Dave,

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Speaker 1: Matt tell me that fact scenario one more time. I've

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Speaker 1: got to make sure I've got the timeline right.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Ashley is at her home with her mother with Loxy,

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Speaker 3: and Loxi is the last person that actually sees Ashley

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Speaker 3: before she leaves to go to the party. Loxy is

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Speaker 3: Ashley's mother. Ashley goes to the party and while she's there,

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Speaker 3: she sends a message via Facebook messenger to her sister, Kimberly.

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Speaker 3: Kimberly is out of the country at the time, but

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Speaker 3: when Kimberly comes back home, they Ashley and Kimberly have

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Speaker 3: plans to move in together. Ashley is moving in with Kimberly.

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Speaker 3: So that's the timeline for that evening of June the fifth.

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Speaker 1: Nancy, Okay, So Mom's at home on the ranch as

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Speaker 1: she goes to a party with friends. And where was

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Speaker 1: the party, Dave mac do we know?

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Speaker 3: It was in the largest town on the Blackfeet Reservation

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Speaker 3: called Browning, Okay.

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Speaker 1: And a problem with anyone that vanishes or goes missing

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Speaker 1: on a reservation. To Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security.

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Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigators that do nothing but

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Speaker 1: locate and extract missing people around the world. He is

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Speaker 1: a former marine and Rocky Vet. Problem with the reservations

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Speaker 1: there is no federal or local law enforcement allowed on

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Speaker 1: They are beyond our jurisdiction. Every reservation is its own

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Speaker 1: Indian territory and we don't have any jurisdiction there. The

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Speaker 1: fans can't just go in and go Hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to search your house. I think Ashley was here. Impossible.

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Speaker 1: That would be like the cops running over to Tijuana

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Speaker 1: and bursting busting down a door to search for drugs.

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Speaker 1: They don't have jurisdiction to do that. Even if they're right,

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Speaker 1: they still can't do it. Agree, disagree.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, In this case, the Blackfeet Law Enforcement Services is

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Speaker 5: the tribal law enforcement authority that has jurisdiction in Browning

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Speaker 5: and was immediately handling Ashley's And I know that the

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Speaker 5: family has reported quite a bit of frustration with the

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Speaker 5: feedback and responsiveness that they got after initial searches for

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Speaker 5: Ashley came up blank.

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Speaker 1: And it goes so far. Let me also truss this.

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Speaker 1: The Blackfeet Law Enforcement Services denied media requests like Foyer

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Speaker 1: requests for information Freedom of Information Act. They don't even

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Speaker 1: have to give that out because they are immune to

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Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act requests. That's US law and they

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Speaker 1: are their own independent territory. They don't have to give

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Speaker 1: anybody anything. Okay, how is that helping the search for Ashley.

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Speaker 1: She's beautiful, she's brilliant, she's funny. She's last seen at

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Speaker 1: a party. That's where I would start the investigation. Where

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Speaker 1: is the party? Who was at the party. Who are

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Speaker 1: these friends? Did the friends see her leave the party?

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Speaker 1: Remember Natalie Holloway? How could you not remember Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: She goes on senior trip. She's at a casino with

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Speaker 1: all of her friend girls. She leaves with your Vandersloot

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Speaker 1: and the Calpo brothers. I think that a drug was

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Speaker 1: put in her drink. Her friends, they're gone, they're separated,

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Speaker 1: and she ends up dead. Did that happen that night?

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Speaker 1: Joining us hopefully with some answers Ashley's sister, Kimberly Luring

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Speaker 1: Heavy Runner. Ashley's sister, Kimberly, thank you for being with

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Speaker 1: us tonight.

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Speaker 6: Oh yes, of course, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, honestly, the honor is mine, Kimberly. Kimberly, I want

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Speaker 1: you to explain everything you know about the party your

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Speaker 1: sister attended the last night she was seen alive.

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Speaker 7: Yes, it was hosted at this gentleman place that is

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Speaker 7: known to having very like, really awful parties where they

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Speaker 7: throw cold water on people who are passed out and

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Speaker 7: they post it all over YouTube and people laugh at it.

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Speaker 7: So this is what type of person this guy is.

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Speaker 7: He's able to share these type of stories. But also

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Speaker 7: he lied to me about the party and said that

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Speaker 7: they didn't. He said that he had never seen Ashley

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Speaker 7: at his house, he only seen her with my uncle.

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Speaker 7: And then he did admit there was a party, but

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Speaker 7: the video was deleted in June. But on another podcast

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Speaker 7: they stated that it wasn't deleted, but it was deleted

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Speaker 7: in June. So they lied about the party from the

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Speaker 7: very beginning, and then he is seen talking about it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a guy that throws parties according

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Speaker 1: to Ashley's sister, where people are mocked and it's posted online. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's not a good look, but it's not a crime.

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Speaker 1: This is what I find significant, Kimberly, if his story

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Speaker 1: has changed. Repeat, no one has been named a person

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Speaker 1: of interest, No one has been named a suspect. He

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Speaker 1: may have not wanted to divulge. She was at his

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Speaker 1: home at a party, just to stay out of trouble.

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Speaker 1: So please wouldn't come question him about it. I've seen

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Speaker 1: that happen a lot. People lie about something tangential or innocent,

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Speaker 1: and then they become a suspect because they lied. Now,

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Speaker 1: just because we don't like him because of his postings,

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean he has anything to do with Ashley's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: But Brian, if it's Gibbons, let's just add this up.

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Speaker 1: If this is accurate, and there may be an innocent

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Speaker 1: explanation which you have to run down and figure out.

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Speaker 1: First of all, he said she wasn't at the party.

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Speaker 1: He lied about the party. According to Kimberly, he said

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Speaker 1: he didn't see her, then later says, oh, yes there

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Speaker 1: was a party, but we deleted the video, the home video,

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Speaker 1: then later stated the video still exists and people have

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Speaker 1: actually seen it. I find that disturbing. I'm not calling

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Speaker 1: him out as a suspect or a person of interest,

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Speaker 1: but I find it very disturbing that he wouldn't say, yes,

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Speaker 1: she was here, I saw her. Maybe I've got it

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Speaker 1: on video.

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Speaker 5: Let me look yeah, and I'll tell you Nancy. One

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Speaker 5: of the reasons why I, personally and everyone on my

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Speaker 5: team spends quite a bit of time on interviews in

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Speaker 5: missing persons cases of anybody who saw this person around

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Speaker 5: the time that they went missing. The second point is

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Speaker 5: that we spend quite a bit of time going back

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Speaker 5: and asking the same questions again, sometimes weeks, sometimes months,

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Speaker 5: sometimes years later. What we're looking for there is any inconsistencies.

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Speaker 5: Has their story changed and if so, ware did it change?

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Speaker 5: And you know, to have this gentleman say there wasn't

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Speaker 5: a party, then there was a party. She was there,

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Speaker 5: she wasn't there. This is a major inconsistency that should

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Speaker 5: ought to be looked into further.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Inconsistencies matter when someone goes missing.

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Speaker 1: Even if you think it's a subtle or non critical point,

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Speaker 1: you never know what's going to be important. So Kimberly

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Speaker 1: Lauren heavy Runner, this is Ashley's sister the night of

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Speaker 1: the party. How do you know she was at the party?

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Speaker 7: We were told that a family member was able to

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Speaker 7: see the video of her, that she was just sitting

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Speaker 7: on a couch and they were playing pools.

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Speaker 1: Did she look distraught or upset in any way?

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Speaker 6: No, they said she was just sitting there.

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Speaker 1: Was she having a drink?

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Speaker 6: I don't know.

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Speaker 7: They just said that there was just like a flake.

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Speaker 7: It was like a video where they just kind of

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Speaker 7: panned the room. But I never got to see the video.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh do you believe that?

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Speaker 7: I believe that they are so openly about sharing their parties,

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Speaker 7: why not share this one.

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Speaker 6: Why lie about it?

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Speaker 7: Why be so open about the mocking but not be

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Speaker 7: opening about somebody sitting on a couch.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good point, Kimberly. So video exists and

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Speaker 1: your relatives saw her in the video sitting on the sofa.

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Speaker 1: Was anyone sitting with her?

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Speaker 7: Kimberly, Yeah, they said that there was people around, like

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Speaker 7: it was just like a normal So it didn't seem

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Speaker 7: like you should be alarming at the time. But why

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Speaker 7: delete it if it was just a normal pan of

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Speaker 7: a party?

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Speaker 1: Do you know anyone else that was at the party?

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Speaker 7: Kimberly, We know, we know the individual who filmed it.

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Speaker 7: He is the cousin of the men that owns the house.

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Speaker 1: Have they been questioned by authorities?

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Speaker 6: I know that they've been, They've been spoken to. And

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Speaker 6: then that is the whole problem.

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Speaker 7: Is that is that we were working with the tribal

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Speaker 7: law enforcement about her case and we had suspects from

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Speaker 7: the very beginning, from day one, Kimberly.

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Speaker 1: Lauren heavy Runner, when did you first realize your sister

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Speaker 1: is missing?

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Speaker 7: When I returned from Morocco on June eighth, I found

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Speaker 7: it weird that she didn't she didn't call me and

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Speaker 7: then the very next day, I remember looking at her

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Speaker 7: Facebook and it said and they said it said a

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Speaker 7: class active eighteen hours ago, which is very odd.

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Speaker 6: But we were told that she was with a.

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Speaker 7: Family friend, so it was like, okay, And then my

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Speaker 7: mom couldn't she wasn't able to get a hold of her.

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Speaker 1: So is that out of character for Ashley not to

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Speaker 1: be active online for eighteen hours?

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Speaker 7: Well, sometimes she loses her phone. She loses her phone

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Speaker 7: a lot, or she breaks her phone. So it seemed

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Speaker 7: like it was okay, but for just a couple of days,

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Speaker 7: you know, and then after when it turned into a week,

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Speaker 7: and then two weeks, and then it was alarming, and

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Speaker 7: then we got a tip. And then her first search

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Speaker 7: was on the twenty fifth of June in the mountains.

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Speaker 1: What was the tip?

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Speaker 7: The tip was that she was seen running from a

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Speaker 7: vehicle and it was going up towards the mountains on

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Speaker 7: Highway eighty nine. It's called Divide the Vide Mountain.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned Highway eighty nine. Was it still on

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Speaker 1: the reservation.

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Speaker 7: Yes, it was on the reservation. It was right on

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Speaker 7: the border of the Glacier National Park.

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Speaker 1: Question what kind of vehicle?

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Speaker 6: I believe it was in Marty Carlow color Big.

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Speaker 1: With Blue Kimberly. Do you believe it was a credible tip?

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Speaker 1: Do you know who gave the tip?

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Speaker 7: I was never told who gave the tip or we

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Speaker 7: were told by Homeland Security. On the reason why we're

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Speaker 7: up in the mountain area, they said that they were

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Speaker 7: told that the police were told by somebody that they

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Speaker 7: saw her running. That's why we were searching in that area.

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Speaker 1: Then the name Sam McDonald emerges. Listen to McDonald.

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Speaker 8: Somebody asked me one time, Sam, why I'm throng with see?

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Speaker 8: Why do you go out with this young grous? Is

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Speaker 8: there something wrong with me? Why would a twenty year

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Speaker 8: old want to go out with a fifty five year old?

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Speaker 9: But at that time I leaned my chair back. We

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Speaker 9: hadn't been up for days, you know, and just like

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Speaker 9: that I went to sleep and when I woke up,

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Speaker 9: she was gone.

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Speaker 1: That's for our friends at ABC News, Dave mac Who

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Speaker 1: is Sam McDonald and what does he have to do

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Speaker 1: with Ashley other than claiming he dates her?

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Speaker 3: Well, Sam McDonald is in his mid fifties and he

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Speaker 3: claims that he had actually with him from the night

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Speaker 3: of the party for the next six days that she

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Speaker 3: was up in his cabin, which is near Saint Mary's Lake.

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Speaker 3: Sam McDonald has been very vocal about being with Ashley

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Speaker 3: and that he claims. Sam McDonald claims that he is

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Speaker 3: the person who dropped her off when he said that

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Speaker 3: he leaned his chair back. He's claiming that Ashley was

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Speaker 3: texting somebody who was going to come and get her

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Speaker 3: that she referred to as V dog. Okay, now this

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Speaker 3: V dog. That's where Sam McDonald claims he leaned his

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Speaker 3: chair back and fell asleep. When he woke up forty

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Speaker 3: minutes later, Ashley was gone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's quite the coincidence that he didn't wake up

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Speaker 1: when Ashley left. Kimberly Lauren heavy Runner, what do you

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Speaker 1: make of that additional fact?

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Speaker 7: I find it bogus because on another podcast he stated

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Speaker 7: that they woke up that morning and then and then

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Speaker 7: he stated again that they were up for days and

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Speaker 7: he leaned to steep back and went to sleep.

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Speaker 2: Her family searches the Blackfeet Reservation, finding only what maybe

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Speaker 2: the tattered clothing Ashley was last seen wearing. Many who

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Speaker 2: might have valuable information remain silent about what happened to her.

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Speaker 1: How can a beautiful young girl, her life in front

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Speaker 1: of her, just vanish into thin air. That did not happen.

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Speaker 1: Joining us tonight very special guests. I can't emphasize that enough.

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Speaker 1: This is Ashley's sister, Kimberly Loring, heavy runner, who has

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Speaker 1: taken her battle to find her sister all the way

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Speaker 1: to the US Capital. Has it helped? Not yet, but

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Speaker 1: we're not giving up. Also with us of Face you

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Speaker 1: know very well, Payne Lindsay joining US podcast host that

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Speaker 1: really doesn't say it all podcast host because Lindsay goes

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Speaker 1: all over the country trying to solve cases. And do

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Speaker 1: I have to say the two words Tara Grinstead because

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Speaker 1: he did so much to crack that case. Wide open host,

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Speaker 1: executive producer of Up and Vanished, Payne, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. And Brian Fitzgibbons joining US Director Operations,

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Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. I say this every time I introduced

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Speaker 1: to him. He is, as I said, Director Operations, but

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Speaker 1: he leads a team of investigators that go across the

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Speaker 1: world finding and extracting missing people. He runs that team.

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Speaker 1: He is a former marine and Iraqi Warvett. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: he's seen it all. I want to go straight out,

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Speaker 1: and of course Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter straight

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Speaker 1: out to Payne. Lindsey Pain, I don't know why it's

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Speaker 1: so difficult getting answers in this case. Tell me what

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Speaker 1: you have learned so far.

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Speaker 10: I mean, Nancy, this isn't a mystery where nothing happened.

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Speaker 10: Something definitively happened to Ashley in a tight window of

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Speaker 10: time around specific people. This case hasn't been empty, it's

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Speaker 10: been quiet, but behind the scenes, Kimberly myself, no matter

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Speaker 10: what law enforcement is or isn't doing, we're looking at

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Speaker 10: these same suspects, these same persons of interest, and it's

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Speaker 10: only a matter of time because the secrets they're keeping

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Speaker 10: aren't going to be secret for very long.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a moment, Pain. I want to

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Speaker 1: start at the beginning, because you and I and Kimberly

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Speaker 1: know the history of the case. Start at the beginning, Pain, Lindsay, the.

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Speaker 10: Timeline's kind of murky in terms of exactly what hour

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Speaker 10: Ashley may have gone missing. But we have identified key

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Speaker 10: individuals that have bizarre stories surrounding them, who were the

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Speaker 10: last people to see her alive. And I've talked to

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Speaker 10: these people person, and in some way or another, these

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Speaker 10: individuals hold the key to where Ashley is now and

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Speaker 10: what may have actually happened to her. And the bottom

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Speaker 10: line is, you know, I'm an independent journalist, I'm a podcaster.

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Speaker 10: I'd go and knock on these guys' doors, but I

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Speaker 10: can't put cuffs on anybody. And so if law enforcement

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Speaker 10: isn't at least listening to what we're doing or hearing

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Speaker 10: kimberly out, then we're just stuck in a void here.

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Speaker 10: And so it's time for someone in charge to get

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Speaker 10: up and do some investigative things like make a phone call,

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Speaker 10: reinterview somebody. And I think once that starts happening, if

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Speaker 10: it happens at all, this is no longer.

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Speaker 4: A big mystery.

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Speaker 10: She was last seen at night walking near a residence

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Speaker 10: on the reservation, reportedly heading toward a specific home where

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Speaker 10: there was a party allegedly had and in the hours

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Speaker 10: surrounding her disappearance, there were several conflicting accounts about who

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Speaker 10: she was with, where she may have been going, and

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Speaker 10: more importantly, what actually happened next. There were early rumors

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Speaker 10: of an altercation or violence, though nothing really definitively confirmed publicly,

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Speaker 10: but the timeline of her last known movements, though it's

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Speaker 10: not been fully clarified, we have found people that she

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Speaker 10: was with. One of those people I'll refer to his

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Speaker 10: first name. His name is Sam. She's spent days with

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Speaker 10: this person and according to him, he fell asleep in

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Speaker 10: her car, he fell asleep in his car, and then

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Speaker 10: she vanished. You know, this is not one of those

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Speaker 10: stories that you like to hear. It's either true or

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Speaker 10: it isn't true. This is something that he offered himself.

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Speaker 10: But it goes beyond just Sam. There are other players

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Speaker 10: in this story, and I think her movements extend beyond

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Speaker 10: that moment in the car. And I think the answer lies.

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Speaker 1: To so Paine question I want to pick it up with.

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Speaker 1: Sam is early reminiscent of another case you and I

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Speaker 1: have both worked on, Crystal Rogers. Remember her boyfriend falls

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Speaker 1: asleep with her in the bed next to him playing

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Speaker 1: games on her phone, and he wakes up and she's gone.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm always suspicious when somebody falls asleep and

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Speaker 1: they wake up and the person is just gone. But

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Speaker 1: it has happened, truly, has happened in life on a

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Speaker 1: few rare occasions. So you can't count it out, Payne.

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Speaker 1: Can you place her anywhere after being with Sam?

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Speaker 10: I can place her with near certainty somewhere else. You know,

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Speaker 10: on the surface, Sam's story sounds like total bs. But

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Speaker 10: I will say I went and knocked on Sam's door,

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Speaker 10: and I talked to him for hours. I talked to

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Speaker 10: him again after that and again after that, and I

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Speaker 10: believe most of his story. I think it's very inconvenient

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Speaker 10: for him. It's not the best excuse if someone goes

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Speaker 10: missing and after you fall asleep. But based on the

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Speaker 10: timeline and other witnesses and other interviews I've conducted, her story.

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Speaker 4: Doesn't end there.

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Speaker 10: There are other interactions, and she's with other people at

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Speaker 10: different locations, And so I think the answer lies beyond

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Speaker 10: Sam himself.

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Speaker 1: You know, to Kimberly luring heavy Runner, Ashley's sister who

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Speaker 1: has taking her battle all the way to the White House,

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Speaker 1: all the way to Capitol Hill. Kimberly, I don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: have to believe that Sam is scrubbed in Sunshine. But

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Speaker 1: if we can place your sister after being at Sam's cabin,

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Speaker 1: then so be it. Do you believe she was alive

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Speaker 1: after her sojourn at Sam's cabin Kimberly, No.

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Speaker 6: I don't believe that she ever left Sam's cabin.

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Speaker 1: So you discount the other witnesses that Paine has spoken with.

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Speaker 7: Yes, there's too many inconsistencies with their stories and they

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Speaker 7: do not match up with the days, the weather. It

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Speaker 7: doesn't make any sense on what they're saying, and they

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Speaker 7: do not match up with Santa's days as well.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Payne Lindsay, I

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Speaker 1: have faced that many many times in court where a

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Speaker 1: witness gets a lot right, but there are glaring problems,

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Speaker 1: and they may be problems with the weather, the lighting,

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Speaker 1: the location, But if the general story can be corroborated,

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Speaker 1: you just have to explain to a jury this is

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Speaker 1: why they got the date wrong. I had that a

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Speaker 1: lot in schamlestation cases because children don't look at the

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Speaker 1: calendar or the clot the way adults do. You'd have

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Speaker 1: to ask them questions like was there a Christmas tree up?

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Speaker 1: Had the Eastern honeycome? I? Was that around Halloween? What

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Speaker 1: did you wear as a costume? To narrow down a

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Speaker 1: general time, So you have to work with a witness's

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Speaker 1: frailties and their bad memory and you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to call through all of their technical legal term

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Speaker 1: paying Lindsay crap and figure out what's real? Are you

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Speaker 1: paying Lindsey convinced she was alive after Sam's cabin.

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Speaker 10: Well, here's the thing to kind of piggyback off of

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Speaker 10: what Kimberly saying. Yeah, the story of Ashley her movements

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Speaker 10: beyond Sam are very murky in those conflicting stories.

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Speaker 4: But I don't think it's as simple as I mean

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Speaker 4: the BOTO line.

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Speaker 10: She's not at Sam's house now, and so I do

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Speaker 10: believe that other parties wherever it was, it could have

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Speaker 10: been down the street from Sam's where he said he was,

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Speaker 10: or somewhere else. Other parties became involved at a certain

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Speaker 10: point and that's when something happened. I don't think that

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Speaker 10: there are days that have transpired. And also, just for

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Speaker 10: the sake of clarity here, Sam is not ruled out

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Speaker 10: by any means. This is his story is being taken

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Speaker 10: with a grain of salt, and just how a police

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Speaker 10: officer might be like, oh, yeah, you know, we're no

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Speaker 10: longer investigating. You don't think for a second that we're

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Speaker 10: not questioning every single word this man says.

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Speaker 4: And you know, Kimberly has a good point.

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Speaker 10: You know, you can go down all these different rabbit holes,

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Speaker 10: but if it always kind of leads back to a

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Speaker 10: certain point in time, then you have to go back there.

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Speaker 10: And so I think that there are other people, like

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Speaker 10: I said earlier, who are involved, who at some point

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Speaker 10: had an interaction either with Sam and Ashley or in

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Speaker 10: helping get rid of her. And that's the reality we're

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Speaker 10: looking at here.

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Speaker 1: The bottom line too, Brian fitz Gibbons joining US Director

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Speaker 1: Operations as a nationwide security This is very similar and

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Speaker 1: hear me out because on surface, it's not similar at

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Speaker 1: all to the Ellen Greenberg case. Ellen Greenberg was murdered,

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Speaker 1: she was stabbed many many times, ten times in the back,

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Speaker 1: and it was real suicide. That said, this case of

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Speaker 1: Ashley Heavy Runner reminds me of the Ellen Greenberg case

435
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: because there has not been a full and independent investigation

436
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: contemporaneously with the disappearance and or death. And it's very hard.

437
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: It's Humpty Dumpty trying to go back, and all the

438
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty

439
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: together again trying to piece together Ashley's disappearance like trying

440
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: to piece together Ellen's murder. It's really hard to do

441
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: in retrospect, right, So this is what you do for

442
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: a living. What would you do now? And remember on

443
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: Indian reservation where everybody's see no evil here, no evil,

444
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: speak no evil. So what do you do if it's Gibbons?

445
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, you've pointed this out that you know, Pain Lindsay

446
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 5: has done the most exhaustive investigation of anybody related to

447
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 5: this case, including you know, the Blackfeet Law Enforcement Service

448
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 5: and the FBI, you know, and going back this amount

449
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 5: of time, we need to do exactly what Pain has done.

450
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 5: Reinterview folks that are connected to this case. Because you

451
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 5: have a number of people who have extensive criminal records

452
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 5: associated with the last moments that we're aware of Ashley's movements.

453
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 5: Those are you know, circled and highlighted red and yellow

454
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 5: need to be looked at here.

455
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 4: Did you have anything to do with her disappearance? No?

456
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 8: Fell slick the wrong thing I did. No, probably never

457
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 8: forgive myself.

458
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 4: Do you feel kind of bad about that?

459
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 5: Yeah?

460
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 9: What do you think?

461
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 5: You know?

462
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 6: Yeah?

463
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 8: I feel bad.

464
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 9: I don't know what happened to.

465
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 8: You know, and I feel better for Kimberley and her grandma.

466
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: That is from paying Lindsay's Up in Vanas True Crime podcast.

467
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: He has investigated this extensively, but yet still no action.

468
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: Who is the mysterious Sam? Let me refresh your recollection.

469
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 8: Somebody asked me one time, Sam, Way, what's wrong with you?

470
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 9: Way?

471
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 8: Do you go out with this young girls? Is there

472
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 8: something wrong with me? Why would a twenty year old

473
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 8: want to go out with a fifty five year old?

474
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 9: About that time, I lean my care back. We hadn't

475
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 9: been up for days, you know, And just like that,

476
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 9: I went to sleep and when I woke up, she

477
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 9: was gone.

478
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: That is the mysterious Sam, who has stated he had

479
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: nothing to do with Ashley's disappearance and has not been

480
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: named as the POI, person of interest or suspect. That's

481
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: from our friends at ABC News. Let's circle back to

482
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: what we do know. How do you piece together a

483
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: case in this condition? To Payne Lindsay joining us, he

484
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: is the star and producer of Up and Vanished Pain,

485
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: how many people have you interviewed.

486
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 10: In this case? I've interviewed dozens, dozens and dozens. I

487
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 10: would say probably near forty. I also want to say

488
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 10: to his comment earlier. Thank you for the kind words.

489
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 10: But I'd like to say that Kimberly has been the

490
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 10: biggest investigator in this case outside of myself. She has

491
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 10: held the torch in this case in pursuit of justice,

492
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 10: and she has been in the weeds just like us,

493
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,479
Speaker 10: and all the time she lives and breathes this and

494
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 10: so this case is still alive thanks to her too.

495
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: So with forty interviews under your belt, all the work

496
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: that sister Kimberly has done, we still don't have answers.

497
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: I mean, Kimberly luring heavy Runner, how does that make

498
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: you feel?

499
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 6: There's really no words how it makes you feel. It's

500
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 6: just extremely.

501
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 7: It's just extremely difficult and painful to now that we've

502
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 7: talked to so many people, but yet.

503
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 6: But we're still asking where Ashley is at. It's just

504
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 6: very hard.

505
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: Kimberly, as I mentioned to you, has gone all the

506
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: way to Washington, DC begging for help. She's both on

507
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill.

508
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 11: Listen if they would have taken her series as a person,

509
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 11: because we are important, I believe that my sister would

510
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 11: have been here or we would have had closure.

511
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 12: And this is a fundamental question of how we value

512
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 12: some of of human life and those who are the

513
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 12: most vulnerable, and that you can be a voice for

514
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 12: those who don't have a voice here today. And I

515
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 12: hope that message is received strongly by our law enforcement,

516
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 12: by members of Congress, so that we can conduct investigations

517
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 12: and find out what happened to Ashley.

518
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: Big talk, little do you were hearing Kimberly speaking at

519
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: a an Indian Affairs committee in Washington, and you were

520
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: hearing Senator Steve Danes who said all the right things,

521
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: but yet nothing happens. Payne, Lindsey, what do I have

522
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: to do stick get dynamite of somebody's rear end to

523
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: get movement on.

524
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 4: This that actually might helped You know, here's the thing.

525
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 10: It's it's it's easier for someone like the FBI to

526
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 10: do what exactly what I did. You know, I did

527
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 10: it as a citizen and found someone's address and got

528
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 10: their number, took a normal flight and drove out to

529
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 10: Montana and went to this guy's cabin to interview him.

530
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 4: And so it would.

531
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 10: Take literally one weekend for two FBI agents who frequent

532
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 10: this area and are also phudo in charge when it

533
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 10: comes to investigations like this. To just literally go do

534
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 10: what cops do and knock on some doors and do

535
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 10: some detective work.

536
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: Or Tashina t running crane. They said that I killed her?

537
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: Did they say that I caught my husband and her?

538
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 4: What?

539
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: Who is they? That's for our friends at ABC News. Okay,

540
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: now I've got a what is that pain? Who is

541
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: she that is saying quote they said I killed her?

542
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: They say I caught my husband and her, but I didn't.

543
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: What's that?

544
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 10: That's somebody who is reacting strangely to Facebook comment and

545
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 10: just local commentary about her alleged involvement. I've also spoken

546
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 10: with Tea several times, and you know, my read on

547
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 10: her specifically is that while she may know a little

548
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 10: bit more than she's saying, she seems to be more

549
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 10: or less wrapped up in a narrative or close in

550
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 10: proximity to something that happened. But isn't the person that

551
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 10: we're exactly looking for. Now, that doesn't mean that anyone's rost.

552
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: So she may know something, but she's not responsible. Is

553
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: that your take?

554
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 5: Yes?

555
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 10: I think people it's human nature for a lot of

556
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 10: people to self preserve, even your her own character when

557
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 10: it comes to a murder case. Which I believe this

558
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 10: to be. People are hesitant to give the whole truth,

559
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 10: and that doesn't mean that they are the killer, but

560
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 10: it does mean they may be holding back a piece

561
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 10: of information that they.

562
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: Looked make them look bad.

563
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 10: But that might be the thing we need to finally

564
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 10: piece this together.

565
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: Look, as I always say, you've heard me say it

566
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: in court, your witnesses are not going to all be

567
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: nuns in priests and virgins. You got to take your

568
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: witness as you find them and don't try to fluff

569
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: them up in front of the jury. The jury will

570
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: say straight through that. But yet still no action. We

571
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: still don't have the definitive answer and a prosecution in

572
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: the case of missing Ashley heavy Runner. Now we know

573
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: her sister hasn't given up.

574
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 13: The last thing I talked to Ashley was on June

575
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 13: sixth as she was asking me when I was gonna

576
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 13: come back from my trip. I was in Africa at

577
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 13: the time. The last time she was on Facebook was

578
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 13: on June eighth.

579
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 6: She was seen on June.

580
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 7: Thirteenth, received several tips that she was hurt, that she

581
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 7: was murdered, and that she was.

582
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: She was seen.

583
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 6: Running from a vehicle.

584
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,959
Speaker 1: That is from our friends at k RT, the three

585
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: and Equity Talks. Okay, Pain, I've heard in my own

586
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: investigation multiple reports she was saying running from a vehicle.

587
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about that? True? False? And

588
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: what are the details?

589
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 10: I think it comes down to the exact timeframe of

590
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 10: when people saw this, because if it happened before she

591
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 10: went to Sam's house, it's kind of irrelevant. But if

592
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 10: this is in any way putting her in the timeline

593
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 10: after she was with Sam, which was for a couple

594
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 10: of days, then it's crucial. But because of that sort

595
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 10: of confusion, you have to kind of really get down

596
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 10: to the bottom of where this lands.

597
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 4: In the whole bigger picture.

598
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: Here Kimberly louring Heavy Runner with us. Kimberly, I just

599
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: happened to see this on x Twitter. That's how I

600
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: found out about it. It is getting no coverage. I

601
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: just happened to find out about it and instead off

602
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: trying to find you to talk about your sister's disappearance.

603
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: First of all, why is there no coverage of your

604
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: sister's disappearance? And do you believe to sena running crane

605
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: story that she had nothing to do with your sister's disappearance.

606
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 7: I don't believe my cousin Tashina's story with the disappearance

607
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 7: of my sister, actually because Tashina was the first person

608
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 7: that I reached out to.

609
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: Because of her lifestyle.

610
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 7: And the reaction that I received when I first reached

611
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 7: out to it really broke my heart because it really

612
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 7: just sealed the deal that my cousin had something to

613
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 7: do with.

614
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 6: That had everything to do with Ashley's disappearance.

615
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: You at least, at the very least, believe that Running

616
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: Crying knows more than she's telling.

617
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 6: Oh yes, I believe that she has a research.

618
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 7: She knows more than what she's saying, just because from

619
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 7: the very beginning she was trying to point the finger

620
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 7: to people. But as of right now, she's actually pointing

621
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 7: the finger at me and saying that I've done.

622
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 6: Since them to my sister, which is just it's crazy.

623
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 1: Okay, that's ridiculous, And I want to point out again

624
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: to Shana t Running Crying is not a person of interest,

625
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: not a suspect, and there in lies the problem. Brian Fitzgibbons,

626
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: the case has not been investigated, so I don't know

627
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: who's a poy. If there is a poy nothing because

628
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: for some reason, nobody is doing anything to find Ashley.

629
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: Heavy Runner, I'm flow.

630
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 5: Mixed, yeah, and tashena running crane is also associated closely,

631
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 5: and I believe at least maybe romantically, was involved with

632
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 5: a person of interest that Sam indicated that Ashley was

633
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 5: last seen with or dropped off to meet in that

634
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 5: final day that he reported. So, you know, the number

635
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 5: of people around this case who have had numerous contacts

636
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 5: with law enforcement on unrelated cases makes this very difficult

637
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 5: to get a straight story out of them.

638
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: Bryph has Gibbs, You and I are both concerned about

639
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: a prior incident.

640
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 5: Explain Yeah, near the time of her disappearance. You know,

641
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 5: it's been reported by paint Lindsay that Ashley returned to

642
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 5: her father's house in a state of panic, shutting the blinds,

643
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 5: attempting to hide inside his residence, saying that somebody was

644
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 5: something had happened that she needed to hide from. So

645
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 5: you know, that's another key piece of information to add

646
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 5: color to what was happening in those final days.

647
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: So in my mind, that is a definite lead. Pain lindsay,

648
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: what happened? Do you know?

649
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 10: I mean, it all comes down to whose car did

650
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 10: she get into? Who was she afraid of? The answers

651
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 10: are right there if we can figure that part out.

652
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 10: I believe that test simony, it just comes down to,

653
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 10: you know, whose card she get into and where'd she go?

654
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 4: Was that Sam? Was that Paul? Was that Tea?

655
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,479
Speaker 10: Was that some other third player that took her somewhere else?

656
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 10: I don't know, but they haven't come forward and admitted that,

657
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 10: and that's problematic. So I think that you're looking at

658
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 10: a lead that, if we can just track it all

659
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 10: the way down, can probably take you to the very

660
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 10: end of this entire case.

661
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: You know, Payne. I still do not understand why this

662
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 1: case and many other similar cases get no attention because

663
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: she lives on an Indian reservation, her life doesn't matter,

664
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: And why does everything have to go through the Bureau

665
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: of Indian Affairs. Any other case, we would be begging

666
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: the FBI, we would be begging local law enforcement. People

667
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: would be lying on the courthouse steps screaming for justice.

668
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: But nothing nothing, you me a few others at I

669
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: don't understand it. Pain, It's like doesn't matter. It's like

670
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: throwing away a paper cup into the trash.

671
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 10: Can I mean it's a bureaucratical mess when it comes

672
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 10: to investigating crimes like this on tribal land like that.

673
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 10: But the bottom line is there's a clean solution. The

674
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 10: FBI has the ultimate authority can go in there and

675
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 10: do whatever they want, and they do. They just haven't

676
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 10: put their focus here, at least that I've seen.

677
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: Well, Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter pain is right

678
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: regarding the FBI. Explain the FBI.

679
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 3: Got involved in the case after about six and a

680
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 3: half months and they took over the lead.

681
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 4: You've got to remember on that.

682
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: Black Feet reservation, Nancy, there's only seventeen full time law enforcement.

683
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 3: It's the state of dela It's the size of the

684
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 3: state of Delaware. So the FEDS didn't and became the

685
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 3: lead on this investigation seven months in.

686
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Ashley's

687
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: disappearance eight zero one, five seven, nine, fourteen hundred, it

688
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: is amazing to me that Payne Lindsey has done more

689
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: interviews and more work on this case than law enforcement.

690
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: Why is that? How much more does sister Kimberly have

691
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: to endure knocking on doors, begging, screaming, crying to get

692
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: answers in her sister's disappearance. The family may not have

693
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: money to put up a reward that we see in

694
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: many cases, but Payne Lindsey has put up a fifty

695
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: thousand dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts and

696
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: the truth of what happened to Ashley heavy Runner fifty

697
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Tonight we remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff

698
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: Caleb Mitchell, twenty four, killed in the line of duty,

699
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: leaving behind his pregnant wife and a two year old child.

700
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: American hero Deputy Sheriff Caleb Mitchell. Thank you to our guests,

701
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: especially to Kimberly Loring Heavy Runner and Brian Fitzgibbons and

702
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: Payne Lindsey, but thank you for being with us tonight

703
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: and keeping Ashley's case alive. Nancy Gray signing off, I'll

704
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,