WEBVTT - Rich Robinson 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.200 My guest today is Rich Robin Show of the Black Crows, 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:19.560 who have a new album, A Pound of Feathers. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.919 Rich, why that title the Black Crows? 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.720 Ha ha, No pound of feathers. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.360 Oh, pound of feathers? Oh well, it was a you know, 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:30.720 it was a lyric of Chris Is in one of 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.920 the songs. At the end he sings a pound of 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.040 feathers and a pound of or a pound of lad 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.320 and you know, it just kind of one of those 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.800 things that's stuck. You know. We always try to sneak 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.360 a bird, you know, a bird reference in there every 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:46.040 once in a while. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.880 So who decided that was the title? You or your brother? 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.560 Chris brought it up, and it was me. Chris and 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.120 our manager talked about it, and we my manager and 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.600 I liked pound of feathers, and Chris had another one 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.120 that I can't remember what it was, and so we 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.080 kind of chose pund of feathers. 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.680 So, you know, we live in a totally different world today. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.520 There are a lot of acts of your avingteage. You 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.960 don't even make new records. How do you decide that 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:16.800 it's time to make a new album. 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.440 You know, Chris and I have always written. I write 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.000 all the time. Chris writes lyrics all the time. He's 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.880 got notebooks and notebooks of lyrics. And so basically the 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:27.760 way it works with him and I is that I'll 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.679 I'll send him musical pieces. Some of them are full songs, 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:33.920 some of them are you know, a verse and a 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.720 chorus or whatever it may be. And then whatever he 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.000 whatever pulls something out of him, whatever inspires him, is 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:46.479 what we tend to make a song, you know, And 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.240 so we just I believe in making records. I still 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.000 believe in making out full albums. I don't I don't 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:58.680 adhere to the new record label kind of philosophy of 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:01.760 let's make an EP or let's do a single. It's 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.440 just like make a fucking record. I mean, it's you know, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.800 it's a piece, it's a whole thing. There's a journey 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.600 on a record. The sequences art is an art form. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.800 The way the songs work together is an art form. 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.640 The way the the recording and all of these different 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.560 elements are creative elements of what I do and what 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.320 we do as a band, and what Chris and I 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:28.080 do as writers and it's still valid to me, you 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.200 know what I mean. And so we make a record 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.360 when we're ready to, when we have songs, we're ready 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.760 to go in and you know, bust one out. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.800 So you say you're constantly coming up with a musical 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:42.799 idea in the plural. So do you play the guitar 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:43.480 every day? 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.520 I don't necessarily play the guitar every day, but when 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.640 i'm it kind of depends on where I am. If 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.000 I'm on tour, I have a guitar in my room. 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.560 If I'm at home, I have a studio at my 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.880 place in Tapanga, and I mean I'm in upstate New York, 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.160 I have, you know, three guitars up here if I 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.920 want to mess around. But I don't make it a 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.079 mission to play guitar. But I always pick one up, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:15.120 and I'm always I'm always inspired to pick it up. 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.799 Like I've always believed that if you pick up an 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.200 instrument when you want to, you're always going to be 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.800 happy about it instead of like, oh it's you know, 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.320 it's two o'clock, I have to sit down and do 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.760 my scales or whatever it may be. I'm more interested 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:34.040 in in that inspiration, you know, So I play you know, 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.080 I have drums at my house. I play bass and 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.080 drums and guitar, and you know, have some keyboards, and 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.640 I love to be in the studio and make stuff 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.320 and so a lot of times I'll just put together 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.160 whole songs for Chris and send them to them. And 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.320 but this record was a little bit different. You know. 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.200 We decided to use the studio as a tool to write. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.680 So I had about twenty five or thirty things I 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.480 sent to him, and he chose, you know, twelve or 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.560 fifteen that he liked, and then we went in and 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:08.560 kind of saved the arrangement for the studio. And a 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.040 lot of times certain things will spark other things, which 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.760 then lead to other things. And that's what's really cool 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:15.240 about it. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.360 Let's go back a step. What do you do in 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:19.360 upstate New York? 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:27.880 I have five kids, and there's a school up here. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.360 They're a school burned down last year in the Palisades 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.800 and they go to a specific school. It's called the 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.920 Waldorf School. And the two big Waldorf schools in Los 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.080 Angeles burned down. There was one in the Palisades and 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.400 there was one in Altadena. And we had been up 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:48.080 here before because we love the area. It's gorgeous. But 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:52.760 we you know, my wife's from LA, so we moved 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.599 out to La. Kind of lived between Nashville and LA. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.479 But we just bought about eighty acres up here, and 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.400 we're going to build a house and maybe live on 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.679 both sides of the of the continent or of the country. 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.160 I mean relative to California. New York is a small state, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.560 but by the East Coast standards, New York is a 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.479 large state. How do you decide where you want to 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.600 buy land. I'm not looking for your address, but generally speaking. 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.760 Well, I mean, I like trees, and I like I mean, 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.440 I grew up in Atlanta, so we had, you know, 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.960 we had a lot of being on the East Coast. 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:30.320 There's seasons, there's you know, I lived in outside of 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.080 New York for like fourteen years. I lived in the 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.240 city for a couple of years, and so and I 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.800 used to go up to Woodstock all the time, make 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.240 to make records and to you know, just to be 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.360 there because I love it. It's you know, the Catskills and 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.839 the Berkshire. So I'm kind of the property I bought 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.320 is right in between the Catskills and the Berkshires. We 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.400 have views of boat which is just beautiful. It's peaceful, 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.800 you know, it's just it's amazing. And about three or 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.760 four families from La moved here too to send their 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.040 kids to the school, and so we have friends here 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.640 as well. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.840 Okay, so how many kids are living with you? Now? 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:13.159 Five? 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.120 So you all five kids? What's the oldest. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.880 Fifteen? And the youngest is five? And then have I 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.960 actually have seven kids, but two of them are older. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:30.080 One's twenty nine and one's twenty five. So my younger bunch, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:31.320 they all live here at home. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:33.960 So the older ones, what are they up to? 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.360 My oldest one, his name's Taylor. He went to Occidental 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:47.680 and studied. He studied a form of AI consciousness that 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:49.960 I think it was kind of a curriculum that he 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:55.159 wrote himself, and he majored in that. And then he 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.719 minored in acting and minored in speaking Russian. So he 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:03.240 learned the Russian language, and he was really interested in teaching. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.599 So he moved to Russia for two years. He lived 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:12.480 in Saint Petersburg teaching English, and I kept sending I 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.720 kept sending him things like, hey, you know, maybe you 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.920 should think about getting out of there. Things are getting weird, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.400 you know, as the build up was going, and he 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.560 was like, no, that's just Western propaganda. They're not doing anything. 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.840 And literally randomly, it was just random. He flew home 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:33.320 and the day he flew home, Putin invaded Ukraine while 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.080 he was on the plane flying home to see his mom, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.440 and he got he landed. He's like, I can't believe 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.560 that happened. I'm like, yeah, I've been telling you. There's 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:45.360 you know, one hundred thousand troops on the Ukrainian border. 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:51.480 So he moved to Georgia, the country. So he moved 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.720 to Tubilisi for like six months to a year, and 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.960 then he moved to Turkey because he has a Russian 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.119 girlfriend and she couldn't get a visa to a lot 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.440 of these places. And then they wound up in Argentina 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.960 for a couple of years. And now he's back in 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:11.480 Chicago and he goes to Northwestern School of Journalism. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.440 Okay, did you ever go visit him in these places? 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.800 I never visited him in He came to visit, like 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.720 when he was in Russia, he and and his significant 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.920 other came to visit us in Amsterdam. But I've I mean, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.800 I've been to Russia but not while he was there. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.679 It was a lot more of a hasshole to get 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.680 over there because we were that's when we were starting 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.160 our touring, and then literally COVID hit, so he moved there. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:46.720 I saw him in February January, February of twenty twenty 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.680 and that and then he went home, and then I 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.200 came home, and then the world shut down, and so 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.240 he was literally stuck in Saint Petersburg for two years. 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:00.920 Okay, what's the twenty five five year old up to. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.840 He's in a band called the Sunday Mourners and he 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.680 lives in LA He's I think he's either just he 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:16.360 just graduated or finished his term in December. He was 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.199 going to Chapman but he's His band's great and they 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.960 just opened for the OCS. They did some shows with 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.439 X they did they're doing. They did a full tour 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.520 of the Midwest, and I think in the maybe the 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.120 summer of the fall. I can't remember what they're planning, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.560 because they want to go to Europe. They have a 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.880 single out and record out and they have a lot 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.040 of interest from labels and booking agents, so I think 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.240 they're going to go over to the UK and do 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.880 a full tour over there, and they're going to do 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.480 East coast down into the South again in the States. 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.520 So their band's great. He's the singer. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.800 What is your philosophy young kids who've graduated from college 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:03.280 and being on the payroll, not being on the payroll. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:11.000 I want them to be happy and fulfilled and if 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.719 and if that makes him happy and he can do it, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.959 and he can you know, he can provide for himself, 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:21.959 then I think it's an amazing thing, you know what 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:27.160 I mean. I always show my support, but I never 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.600 get involved. You know, Chris and I and you know 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.880 we're not involved. You know, Chris doesn't get involved with 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.040 his kids, and like in the sense of like pushing 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.600 for things. I think he's very similar in that way. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.120 I will always be there to help if they need it, 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.559 but I don't want to like insert myself and what 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.960 their trajectory may be or what they have plans for. 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.680 Well, your older son is going to journalism school at Northwestern. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.360 That's a big chunk of change. Is he paying for that? 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:58.320 Are you paying for that? 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.600 We pay for that, the parents. But he's it's a 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.920 year it's a year program. So he's you know, he's doing. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:10.960 I'm really proud of him. It's one of the best 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:12.520 journalism schools in the world. 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.440 Okay, does the one who's in the band, does he 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:19.960 ever call up and say, I'm sure, can you send me, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.720 you know, one thousand or three thousand dollars? 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.200 He does other jobs, like he he models, and like 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.960 he does other things outside of the band to kind 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.600 of help him. He works at a record store. Like 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.920 he's got his whole thing down. He lives within his means, 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.000 so he's cool to exist. You know. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:46.640 So their mother, when did you get involved with their mother? 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:56.320 In nineteen ninety two? Okay, she was twenty and I 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.280 was twenty three or twenty four. I was twenty four. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.839 Is this somebody, because you know, Black Crows basically started 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.360 to blow up in nineteen nineties. Is someone you knew 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.080 before that or you met subsequent to No. 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.440 I met her at a show. Actually a friend, a 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.480 kind of acquaintance, brought her to the show and we 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.400 saw each other and we were together for twelve years 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:24.480 and had two kids. So that ended because just I 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.000 think we were too young and I was gone a 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.880 lot and she it's just you know, it's that age 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.360 old story. We grew apart, you know what I mean. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:34.760 I think that's really all it was. 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.080 So if your kid said I want to get married 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.680 at twenty three, you would say. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:46.360 What I would say, Luckily they're both past twenty three. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.680 Well they're coming up. We got five coming up. 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.280 Yeah exactly, I would say. I mean, look, I could 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.400 you know, I can always give my like this is 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:01.120 what happened to me, but this age twenty three, this 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.360 is your life too, So you're going to have to 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.000 make this decision. But I would, as someone who went 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.280 through this, I would have to tell you that this 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.040 is something that can happen and you have to you 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.160 have to really look at it for yourself. But I'm 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:19.160 not the type of person to like force an agenda 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.559 or force them into something that they may not. I mean, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.560 you know, look, life is life. Kids don't listen to 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.960 their parents. I never listened to my parents, and it's 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.240 just the way it is, you know. And so I would, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.360 like I said, I'm always there to be like, hey, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.319 this didn't really pan out for me. So if you 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.239 want to take that chance, go ahead, you know, okay? 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.960 And when did you meet your prison significant other? 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:51.880 I met her in two thousand and she and we 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:57.400 were together in five or six, I think it was six, 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.920 but we were together. Yeah, we've been together ever since. 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.720 Okay, did you just end up with five more kids 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:06.120 or did you want a big family? 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.320 I you know, it's tough when you go through a 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.040 divorce and you don't you know, you instantly get moved 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.080 to almost like a visiting uncle status. At least back then, 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.560 that's how it was, where it's like you get to 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.400 see your kids every other weekend and on Wednesdays or whatever. 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.440 And that that was just like the the way that 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.280 the divorce industrial complex tended to work, you know what 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.080 I mean. It was like, this is what it is. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.280 I had to travel because I was working, and I 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.480 still had to pay for everything, and that's what it was. 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.920 And so obviously I missed so much, you know, but 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.760 I also love kids and I love having kids, and 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.520 so you know, I just I just kind of go 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.800 with it. You know. I don't have a ton of 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.640 you know, we never really had a ton of planning 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:02.640 going on, you know what I mean. It wasn't like, 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.680 let's sit down and have five kids and this is 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.800 what we're going to do. We would you know, have 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.760 kids and we would be thrilled about it, you know 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:10.720 what I mean, that's how. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.240 It was, okay, So you know, it's funny. I was 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.200 talking to Stuart Copeland and he has seven kids, and 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.080 he says, you never really know what you're going to get. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.480 They all have their own personality. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.920 What's your experience one hundred percent? And they come out, man, 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.320 I mean, there's so many things that when they come out, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:36.640 there's certain there's already bits of their personality that are 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.240 already there one hundred percent. It's amazing, you know, it's like, 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:45.720 really it's so far out to see and then to 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.120 watch them grow and then watch those things that are 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:57.120 these you know, I don't know, these strong sort of 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.360 urges in their personality, and then they integrate into a 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.120 larger personality as they get older and older and older. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.480 It's really amazing. I mean, my teenager, my fifteen year old, 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.240 he was he has a lot of the qualities that 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:12.880 he had when he was a kid, but now he's 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.840 getting into the grumpy teenage sort of face. So it's 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.480 I don't know how much of that is kind of 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.120 clouding the positivity of his youth, but I think it's 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.640 still in there because it comes out everyone in all. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.200 So what intrigues you to invest and have them go 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.080 to Waldort schools? What's that about. 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.680 It's a specific way of looking at the world. It's 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.800 more of an analog way of looking at the world. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.600 Like I still, although there's technology all around, I still 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.880 believe in the analog way of looking at life and 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.640 looking at the world and making music and you know, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:52.040 everything I do, I would prefer to do it that way. Then, 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.720 I think if you have that base of being able 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.640 to exist, I mean I tell them all the time, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.880 like you need you need to learn how to be bored, 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.840 because being bored can be an incredibly rewarding thing. I mean, 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.320 that's where a lot of I mean, that's where creativity 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.359 comes from. That's where the creativity is but was born from, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.520 you know, a lot of times instead of having something 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:20.080 constantly in your face entertaining you twenty four to seven, 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.840 to just sit back and do some reflection and look 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.280 at the world in a different way. And so they 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.119 do these things. The way they teach is more of 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.679 a holistic way of teaching. They teach about, you know, 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.400 like thetle in their younger grades. They you know, they 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.120 bake bread and they cook things and they make things, 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.440 and they want it to be like the normal sort 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:48.840 of rhythm of life, to just be present in the classroom, 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.639 just to be able to smell bread being cooked or 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:56.680 go out here. They're encouraged to use their imaginations and 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.199 they're really they try to be strict. It's hard in 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.680 today's world, but there's a no media sort of thing 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.680 where you're not really supposed to watch movies or TV 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:10.000 or devices, and we thought it would be a great 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:11.919 thing for our kids, you know. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.200 Okay, so now we live in this technological world. To 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.080 what degree do you restrict their device use, screen use? 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:27.280 Well, when we're at home, we only allow them to, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.080 like they're going to watch some stuff, but we have 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.359 a TV and we make them watch movies. You know, 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:38.640 we really try no YouTube. None of them have you know, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:43.840 social media, and you know, my older son kind of 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.680 sneaks into it sometimes, but the younger kids, they don't 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:52.000 have social media and they can't, you know, other than 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.480 when we travel they have iPads to just because traveling 0:18:55.600 --> 0:19:00.520 is can with five is pretty chaotic. But you know, 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.840 when we land, that's it. Those things go up and 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.080 they have to either watch a movie or play outside 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:06.720 or do whatever. 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.040 So what point do they get a phone. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.719 I don't know, that's it. I mean my fifteen year 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.720 old got one a couple of years ago, so he 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.399 was like thirteen, I think when he got a phone. 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.239 So we try to push it to that, you know. 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.639 I mean, I would say even later, but you know, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.080 sometimes the fighting to get one. I mean, you know, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:30.960 when he was in la they were going to a 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:36.400 different school. He was going to a different school in Malibu, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.439 and all the kids had phones, and it was just 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.639 kind of like everyone's got a phone but me. You 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:42.560 know that kind of thing. 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:48.159 Okay, you know, you have five kids, and you have 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.679 two older kids who were out of school, but you 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.240 know there were some expenses here. You feel the financial 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.679 pressure to work and make the money. 0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:59.560 I mean yeah, I mean we go out and to 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.760 our and I'm really fortunate to be able to do 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.920 that and take care of everyone. But my older kids 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.520 they're pretty I mean they're pretty self sufficient, you know. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:14.800 Like I said, my twenty five year old, he's you know, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.400 he does has he works at a record shop, He'll 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.240 do this stuff. He does a little modeling. He makes 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.720 a little bit of money. My older son has like 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.400 five jobs when he's not in school. He's really he's 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.880 got a strong work ethic and so he doesn't want 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:31.240 to rely on us. 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.880 You know, So how many boys and how many girls 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:36.919 of the younger five and do they get along? 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:39.680 Four boys and one girl? 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:42.680 Where's the girl in the hierarchy? 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:48.399 She's the second youngest. Okay, so she's seven, but she 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.800 kind of rules the roost, you know. She she screams 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:59.560 like nobody's business. She's she can control, she can control 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.919 what's happened, like she's so smart. She gets in on 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:07.400 it quickly and understands what's happening and can can traverse. 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.360 You know. She's the most like my dad, which is amazing, 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.280 you know, which is funny because my dad and my 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:18.879 grandmother in particular, were really charismatic people like my dad 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.639 and Chris were a lot of like my grandmother was 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.120 just like them. You know. She was a really far 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:30.840 out lady, you know, just ahead of her time. And 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.239 so my daughters like that, and she just kind of 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.879 rules everyone in the house, puts them in their place, 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:40.080 and she's amazing. 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:53.840 Okay. I mean there have been legendary battles between you 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.040 and your brother. That's your first hand, you know, growing 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.600 up experience. Now that you have kids, do you think 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.480 that's just a nature of siblings or was there something 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.000 special about the to you that caused friction. 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:10.800 I mean, I think in a sense it's the nature 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.800 of siblings. Although my older two GID kids always got 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:20.439 along a lot better than Chris and I and my 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.000 younger kids. You know, my fifteen year old's a little 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.080 annoyed by everyone. He can't stand being around the little kids. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:28.840 He's just like those kids annoying me. I can't be 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:34.080 around them. But there's also a cushion there because they 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.560 have other siblings to go to. With Chris and me, 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.760 it was just the two of us, and it was 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:42.800 also a different time. There was a lot of like 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:45.240 just deal with it, like you just have to deal 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:49.000 with what's in front of you. And I think today 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.680 there's a lot more negotiating room for people to deal 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:58.040 with one another, you know, And so back then, I 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.080 think that's really what it was. Chris, you know, it 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.800 was always the you know, kind of ringleader. He always 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:09.120 drew like kind of dictated what we would all do. 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.440 We had cousins and we had people that were around, 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:19.040 but you know, I once we started writing music, writing 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:23.120 songs together. It always worked, but there was always a 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:25.679 push and pull because I have I have very strong 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.400 ideas about music and where I need where I think 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.440 it needs to go, and he has strong ideas about 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.399 what he wants, and so I think that's where a 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:36.359 lot of the stuff would come from. You know a 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:40.000 lot of those you know, battles that we would get into. 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:43.600 Let's go back to your father. Tell me about him 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.040 being so charismatic? What was up with him? 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.000 He was just I mean to this day there's people 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.480 in Atlanta. You know, he passed away in twenty thirteen, 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:55.840 so to this day in Atlanta, like, we'll go the 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:58.240 other I was there a couple of years ago and 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.719 I had to go do laundry somewhere and we were 0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:03.520 on tour and I was like, oh, well this place 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.080 will do I remember my you know, like this is 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:07.920 where dad used to go at whatever. And I went 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.840 in there and the woman was like, oh, your Stan Son. 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:14.919 You know his name was Stan Robinson. And I was 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:16.719 like yeah, and then like two other people in the 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:18.840 laundry at I was like, I remember Stan. I love 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:20.879 that guy. You know, that's just how he was. Like 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:26.520 everyone remembered him. Everyone loved him. He was funny, you know, 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:30.920 he was. He was just gregarious. He'd walk into a room, 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.639 he knew everyone's name. He knew, you know, every matre 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.399 d at every restaurant. He would go to every waiter 0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:39.560 he knew. He just knew everyone. He was. He put 0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.800 himself out and that's how he was. He was always 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:43.160 that way. 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:45.920 And how do you earn his living? 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:51.280 He was He was a musician in the late fifties, 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:54.400 when he was about eighteen, he had a hit called 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:56.920 Booma Dip Dip and it was on it was top 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.399 forty or whatever. He was on the Alan Fried Show 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:03.639 and Dick Clark Show. We found footage of him on 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.399 the Dick Clark Show actually, And then he got into 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.320 acting off Broadway or like, he tried out for the 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:17.879 Traveling Troop of for West Side Story, and then he 0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:20.600 did some things here and there. He did some commercials 0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:23.639 and then he wound up coming back to Atlanta and 0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:27.879 he started a fote group called the Appellachians and they 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:29.679 they were on like I think they were on ABC, 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.439 Paramount Records, and they toured around the South there. You know, 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:37.399 he actually played at the Rhyman and when Chris and 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:40.399 I play there there's a plaque downstairs of him or 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:44.320 a mention of him. And so, but later he kind 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:46.560 of went down the road of my dad, of his 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:49.119 dad and his mom, and they were in the you know, 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:59.240 the clothing business took yeah, exactly, and his so his dad, 0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:08.560 I was, he was a traveling salesman. And my grandmother 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:12.760 started a children's clothing company in Atlanta, this place called 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.600 the Merchandise Mart. And so she was one of the 0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:17.800 first women to start her own business. And she had 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.720 her own showroom and down there, and she grew it 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.040 into a sizable thing, and then Dad took it over. 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:28.360 You know. Dad went into that after the after we 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.879 were born and the music kind of just you know, 0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:34.640 it wasn't working out the way he wanted. He went 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:37.800 into started working for clothing companies and then he found 0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:40.720 finally started working with my grandmother and then took that 0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:44.359 business over. So he sold children's clothing for years. 0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:47.639 So at what point did his family come from the 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:48.440 old country. 0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:57.760 They came after World War One from Poland, which is 0:26:57.760 --> 0:27:01.440 what we were told, and they were Rabinowitz and they 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:04.760 were naturalized Robinson and they came through Ellis Island. 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:09.040 And your grandparents were born overseas. 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:15.200 No, my granddad was, my grandmother was so ike was Jewish, 0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.720 came from a Jewish family, but my grandmother was Baptist, 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.000 so her dad and her dad and first husband were 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:25.800 both Baptist ministers. And so how those two met up, 0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.479 I have no I have no idea, but you know, 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:31.720 she was our bubby. We called her Bubbs. You know, 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:35.360 she was like Bubby we called her. But you know, 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:39.240 we grew up. Dad had two older half siblings from 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:43.480 her name was Tatsi from I mean that was her nickname. 0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:46.919 Her real name was Thetis, but they called her Tatsi uh, 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:50.040 And then we called her Bubby. But you know, she 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.959 had you know, she had two kids from an older 0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:56.840 from her first marriage, and then they were my dad's 0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.760 half siblings. And I think there was like a fourteen 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:00.600 year difference. 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:03.520 So how did your father meet your mother? 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:08.680 They met at a party and Buckhead in Atlanta, and 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:10.840 I remember them driving us by the house and they're like, 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:12.600 that's where your dad and I met. You know, my 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:18.040 mom would say she was a stewardess for Eastern Airlines. 0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:18.480 Wow. 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.600 And she moved down to Atlanta from Nashville, her and 0:28:21.640 --> 0:28:25.840 her two sisters and they all I think they all 0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:28.280 flew for Eastern you know, and so that's how they 0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:30.960 got to Atlanta. Then her and dad met and then 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:33.800 we started, you know that they started the family. 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:37.640 Okay, was it an instant romance between them? 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.560 I guess, I mean, you know they do that generation 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.320 doesn't talk too much about that kind of stuff typically, 0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:49.200 you know what I mean. So I mean Mom said 0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:52.640 it was you know, Mom said that there was instant 0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:55.760 they were kind of together, but then she was like 0:28:55.840 --> 0:29:00.640 when they first had Chris, it was a little harder 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:03.160 for them, and then they everything smoothed out and then 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:08.040 they kind of went. But they got divorced in ninety three, 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:13.360 so you know, they were together for twenty eight years 0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:14.200 or something like that. 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:18.240 Okay, they got divorced. Did either of them or both 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:19.320 of them get remarried. 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:24.240 No, Well, my dad, my dad got married, but I 0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:26.040 think it was for like a couple of months and 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:28.360 then it just didn't pan out and then he split up. 0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:32.080 I went to college with somebody whose parents divorced when 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.640 he was in his late twenties, and it fucked them up. 0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:36.640 So what was your experience? 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.320 You know, it didn't mess me up too. 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:43.600 Bad. 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:50.720 I mean, you know, they were unhappy. I think you know, again, 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:53.320 I always take a you know, I always take more 0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:56.240 of a like it's their life, I and that's you know, 0:29:56.280 --> 0:30:01.040 they're still here. It changes the dye dam slightly, but 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:05.800 it is what it is kind of thing. So to me, 0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:08.000 it was just like part of life, you know what 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:11.040 I mean, this thing happened, it changed a little bit, 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:14.000 but they were both cool and then later they became 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:17.360 more like friends and they would talk to each other 0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:19.720 and kind of could lean on each other a little bit. 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:23.720 So it wasn't you know, it sucks to watch your 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:26.719 parents go through that. It sucks to watch, especially our 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:28.880 mom go through that because it was dad who kind 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:32.680 of initiated the whole thing. But you know, but again, 0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:35.600 like you can't help how you feel. You can't help 0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:38.400 who you love. And if you if if it's hard 0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:42.000 to be around each other, then you know, then it shouldn't. 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.040 You shouldn't be around each other, you know what I mean, 0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:45.080 That's how I saw it. 0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:48.600 So how much of a Jewish influence was there in 0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:49.880 the family growing up. 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:54.080 We had? I mean there was a good amount, because 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:58.160 I mean, you know, culturally, there was a lot we 0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:04.400 had cousins in Atlanta. Our uncle Saul owned a bike 0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:06.760 shop in Atlanta. It was Cohen's Bike Shop, and he 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:13.000 was my granddad's either his cousin or his I can't 0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:15.520 I don't know there was a relation there. And I 0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.560 can't remember if it was his cousin or his brother, 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:21.840 because I know I sister or no, maybe it was 0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:24.959 his brother in law because my sister married him. So 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:29.320 and they and so we would go to their house, 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:33.280 and you know, we kind of grew up going and 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.920 I mean it was an interesting life Chris and I 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:38.960 had because we did have No one ever pushed religion 0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:42.160 on us, but there was there was a religion around us, 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:45.200 you know what I mean, or like like culture or religion, 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:49.800 and so you know, we were around it. You know, 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:55.160 we went to the family functions, we interacted with everyone, 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:58.320 and so it was it was kind of there through osmosis, 0:31:58.560 --> 0:32:01.200 you know, in that sense. I mean Dad was going 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:03.680 to convert, but then he had a fight with his rabbi. 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:07.960 Then he bailed out. He said so, and he always 0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:11.200 said because his dad was Jewish and his mom was Baptist, 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:12.240 he became a druid. 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:15.280 So, but your mother is not Jewish. 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:21.400 Nope, she she I mean for a minute, like for 0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:23.360 a couple of years, she kind of went she was 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:25.800 a Lutheran because her sister was a Lutheran. But then 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:29.680 I don't know, I guess it wore off, you know 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:32.680 what I mean. She may she took made Chris and 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:36.280 I go to church a couple of times, but it 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:38.560 was like, I don't know, a handful of times. Dad 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:41.480 wasn't into it at all, and so Dad was like, 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:43.160 you know, don't make him go to church, and we 0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:47.840 kind of I don't know what the impetus for everything was, 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:50.200 but we went in and got out pretty quickly. 0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:57.040 Okay, we're exactly do you grow up in Italanta? How 0:32:57.080 --> 0:32:59.880 far from the city center was your neighborhood like subur 0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:01.360 what was the story? 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:05.640 We were in the suburbs. So when we were born, 0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:08.000 Chris and I were born in Buckhead, which is part 0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:12.640 of the Atlanta downtown like the city Atlanta city proper. 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.200 But then Dad got a job we moved to Charlotte, 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:20.240 North Carolina for two years, and then we moved back 0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:22.560 out into the suburbs. And it was a suburb called 0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:26.640 eas East Cobb County, and it was about thirty five 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:29.520 minutes from the city, you know, thirty five to forty 0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:35.240 minutes tops. And that's you know, I mean I was 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:38.080 fourth or fifth grade when we moved there. I think 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:42.040 it was fourth grade, so it was fourth through twelfth 0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:47.600 grade we lived there, you know, and that's kind of 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:50.960 where everything musically got started. That's where we would go 0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:54.480 in the basement and play music and you know, started 0:33:55.520 --> 0:33:59.560 cultivating our own musical tastes. Okay, you know. 0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:02.360 I don't have an older brother. I have an older sister. 0:34:02.960 --> 0:34:05.120 But I know a lot of people have older brothers 0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:09.239 and the younger brothers entrall to the older brother, you know, 0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:12.600 and before you hit you know, maturity, et cetera. What 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:14.200 was your relationship with your brother? 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:21.759 You know, we would get along. We got along, you 0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:26.480 know a lot. We got along really well. But obviously 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.880 there were sometimes where we would fight and you know, 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:32.640 get upset. I mean I was always kind of bigger 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:35.360 than him, so I could, you know, we would we 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:37.759 would get in arguments and I could, you know, I 0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:39.680 could hold my own let's just say it that way. 0:34:40.480 --> 0:34:46.040 But he was also he would he would forge himself 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:50.040 into the world more than me. I mean a because 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:52.400 I was younger, but b just because of my personality. 0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:54.840 So you know, he would go out and look for 0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:56.600 records and he would go do these things and he 0:34:56.600 --> 0:34:58.200 would bring them back and then I would go in 0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:01.040 and take the ones I like and listen to him 0:35:01.160 --> 0:35:05.400 in my room. And you know, I would always obsess 0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:14.360 over the types of like all the instrumentation, and he 0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.200 would obsess over the stats, like who played what, who 0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:19.439 did this, who played that? But I could I could 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:22.000 sing every note of every instrument that was going on 0:35:22.360 --> 0:35:22.920 at the time. 0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:28.600 Okay, were you good in school? Were you popular? Did 0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:30.840 you play sports? What kind of kid were you? 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:35.560 I played football for like six years or you know, 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:41.040 something to that effect, but Chris played. Yeah, I played 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:44.080 football in soccer when we were kids. I remember playing 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:47.959 soccer and football. I played from fifth grade to ninth grade, 0:35:48.000 --> 0:35:52.240 and then I stopped and was more interested in other things. 0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:58.480 You know. I had two really good friends and some 0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:01.160 other friends, but like, the three of us were really 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:03.560 close and we would do everything together, you know, that 0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:06.239 kind of thing, always staying at each other's houses and 0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:09.040 doing stuff. And then we had a broader group of 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:12.960 friends outside of that. And one of my friends lived 0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:16.680 right up the street from me. So it was, you know, 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:20.360 it was easy just to walk over every day. Chris 0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:25.040 had a ton of friends, and you know, he was 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:29.080 more out there, but I was more you know, I 0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:31.839 was a little shyer, you know what I mean. I'm 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:34.040 a lot more shy than Chris was. And I had 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:36.200 my own issues to deal with because I was OCD 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:40.040 and no one really knew what that was and that time. 0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:44.279 So were you a good student, mediocre student? You're a 0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:45.320 good student. 0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:48.400 If I wanted to be. I mean, you know, growing 0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:52.040 up in the South and doing like going to public school. 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:56.279 I mean I went to thirteen schools and so like 0:36:56.360 --> 0:37:01.880 in my whole you know, kindergarten to twelfth grade. So 0:37:03.120 --> 0:37:05.480 it was you know, I would have falling out with 0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:08.280 teachers or you know, it was a lot of times 0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:11.200 it was boring and I would just be like Jesus, 0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:15.279 this is so boring to me. And but if I 0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:18.000 had to, like I you know, I remember like these 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:19.560 teachers would get mad at me and they're like, if 0:37:19.560 --> 0:37:22.560 you if you don't get a hundred, you're we're going 0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:24.160 to fail you and you're gonna have to repeat. And 0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:26.680 I would get one hundred if I wanted, you know, 0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:29.080 And because I'm like, the last thing I want to 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.319 do is go to this fucking school again and deal 0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:34.319 with this. And so I could get good grades and 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:36.440 I could pass if I wanted, but most of the 0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:39.760 time I was so bored I didn't. I didn't really, 0:37:40.160 --> 0:37:42.480 I was so uninterested in what they in the way 0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:44.239 that they were presenting these things to me. 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:47.719 Just if you move to the suburbs, Like when you're 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:50.040 in fourth or fifth grade, how do you go to 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:51.680 thirteen schools? 0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:56.080 Well, it was starting from kindergarten, it was one school, 0:37:56.120 --> 0:38:00.680 then another, then you know, like first grade was when 0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:03.440 we moved to Charlotte. So I went to first grade, 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:05.920 and then the second grade was a private school. Then 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:09.319 we moved back to Atlanta in the third grade, and 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:11.880 then moved out to East Cobb in the fourth grade. 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:14.359 And so then it was like I was in one 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.319 school for fourth and fifth grade. Then I went to 0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:18.400 middle school, which was sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. Then 0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:21.279 I went to high school. And when I went to 0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:23.680 high school, I went to one school and then they 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:27.200 pulled me out and put me in private school, and 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:31.600 then I went to a boarding school, and then I 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:36.360 came back to another school, and so It's just it 0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:45.080 was just kind of moving around within, you know. It 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:47.640 was just, you know, it was just sort of how 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:50.880 it happened, you know what I mean, which also created 0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:53.920 a lot of like social issues because I was always 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:56.640 a new kid coming into school, you know what I mean. 0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:59.360 Usually the new kids figure out how to fit in 0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:00.000 and git along. 0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:03.160 Though I can get along and fit in, but it 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:07.200 wasn't like having a group of friends that you grew 0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:09.080 up with that you could deal with. 0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:11.040 So why did you go to boarding school? 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:14.600 My dad? I went to my dad's boarding school. It 0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:18.920 was just, you know, I got you know, my parents 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:20.640 wanted me to go there. So I went up there 0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:25.719 to Darlington. It was in Rome, Georgia, and it was 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:28.800 where my dad and my godfather went and so it 0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:31.080 was a great school and it was kind of cool. 0:39:31.120 --> 0:39:33.080 But you know, I went there for a year and 0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:33.880 then came back. 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:35.839 And what about your brother do he go there too? 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:39.279 He didn't go there. He went to a school because 0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:44.200 Chris was dyslexic, so he had some learning issues, and 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:48.120 he went to the school called Brandon Hall, which was 0:39:48.120 --> 0:39:50.760 more of like a tutorial school. There was one on 0:39:50.760 --> 0:39:53.160 one teacher on one student or one teacher on two 0:39:53.280 --> 0:39:56.879 students and they were designed to be able to deal 0:39:56.960 --> 0:40:01.120 with those issues at that time, and I wound up 0:40:01.160 --> 0:40:04.160 going to Brandon Hall two for a year as well. 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:14.560 So tell me about the ocd. 0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:19.560 Uh. It's just something that I've always had and it 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:23.640 was pretty you know, pretty It's just extreme anxiety of 0:40:24.200 --> 0:40:29.960 the world, you know. I you know, I feel energy 0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:32.239 from people and from places, and I can and I've 0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:34.239 always been able to feel it. And when I walk 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:37.879 into a room, the energy can be like crushing, where 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:40.800 it can be pleasant, you know, just kind of depends 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:42.959 on which room and where you're being in. The same 0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:45.960 thing goes for people. There's certain people that when they 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:48.560 come around, their energy doesn't work with mine, and then 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:52.480 other times the energy works and it's great. And so 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:55.960 it's just it's just something I've had to deal with. 0:40:56.040 --> 0:40:57.920 I mean, as I got older, I was able to 0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:02.040 control it, and then now it's just kind of it's 0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:04.719 very little. But as when I was a kid and 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:08.200 I didn't know what was going on, and my mom 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.680 tried to understand, and she tried to look into it 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:14.839 and and was helpful, you know, but ultimately, you know, 0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:17.359 no one talked about it and no one knew much 0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:21.000 about it, so it was kind of it was just 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:22.040 something I had to deal with. 0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:27.080 Well, do you have rituals, repetitions, you know, focus on things? 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:31.239 Yeah, I used to weigh more and now it's now 0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.000 there's certain things that I'll but not I don't have 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:36.160 any of those anymore. I don't have to like do 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:41.120 you know, repeated things and you know, touch surfaces or 0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:44.200 do this or do that, you know. I kind of 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:45.840 I was able to get past. 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:48.200 That and with help or you just outgrew it. 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:55.120 I I I went to actually went with my first wife. 0:41:56.280 --> 0:42:01.719 We went to a marriage counselor, and she and the 0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:04.320 marriage counselor and this came up, and the marriage counselor 0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:08.520 told me she just said, well, you know, follow it through, 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:13.120 like what's going to happen if this happens. And then 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:16.879 it just clicked with me, just just that simple thing 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:19.840 was like, Wow, you're right, She's like, you know, how 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:22.239 is this going to continue down the road? There is 0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:25.080 an end? You know. I mean, because when I was 0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:27.120 a kid, there was so much there was a lot 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:30.240 of pressure because you know, I was writing these songs. 0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:32.520 I was the youngest in the band, and I remember writing, 0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:36.319 you know, having to write a whole record, and you know, 0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:39.440 because I was young, and because as the band got bigger, 0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:42.120 Chris and I became more volatile towards each other because 0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:47.879 everyone was buying for you know, you know, who's say 0:42:47.960 --> 0:42:49.600 is going to be what or whatever, And there was 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:53.080 a lot of resentment growing and I would get panic attacks, 0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:55.560 you know when I when I was like twenty two 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:58.040 or twenty three. You know, you come off a record 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:00.360 like Shake Your money Maker. I was nineteen when I 0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:03.520 made it, sold seven million albums, and then all of 0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:06.239 a sudden, you're supposed to make another record, and so 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:08.960 we just go in and do it without thinking about it. 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:10.880 But by the time we got to America, it was 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:15.240 like a thing. And I was and I was getting 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:18.960 married and making this record and all these things were 0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:21.040 kind of hitting me at the same time. And that 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:26.600 was one hundred percent, I think, circling the center issue, 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:29.080 which was this OCD shit that I had to deal with. 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:32.960 So when was the last time you had a panic attack? 0:43:34.640 --> 0:43:38.879 Well, my mom gave me some amazing advice one time 0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:42.040 because she used to have them, and she just said, 0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:47.000 there's a time limit, like the physical effects of a 0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:50.520 panic attack last ninety seconds. And when I knew that 0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:54.200 there was a time limit, then I was like, oh shit. 0:43:54.480 --> 0:43:57.680 Logically I could look at that and say, this isn't forever. 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:00.920 And knowing that there was a time limit to it, 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:03.520 then I was able to kind of see when it 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:06.120 was coming or when they were coming, and then work 0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:09.520 through it in a logical way. And then I haven't 0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:10.640 had one since. 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:13.760 You know, Okay, so you talk about your brother coming 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:17.480 home with these records. He's reading the credits, you're analyzing, 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:20.120 learning how to play all the parts. You remember what 0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:21.520 some of those records were. 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:29.440 I mean early on it was like you know, rim records, 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:35.040 the replacements, you know. I remember he had a David 0:44:35.040 --> 0:44:37.680 Bowie record. I think it was like the greatest hits. 0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:40.200 I think it was Change is One or something, and 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:42.600 there was a lot of and I love David Bowie 0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:48.560 and I love those songs. And when I first heard Murmur, 0:44:49.360 --> 0:44:53.880 just this sound of that record was so profound to me, 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:56.000 you know, it just kind of I remember hearing it 0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:59.080 on this station in Atlanta. It was called ninety six Rock, 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:02.839 which played like and you know, like like you know, 0:45:03.280 --> 0:45:06.520 skinnerd or whatever, but they're playing this and I heard 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:08.960 Radio for Europe and it was one of the coolest 0:45:09.000 --> 0:45:11.759 sounding things I'd ever heard, and it just hit me. 0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:15.359 And so I would listen to that record, you know, 0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:23.239 a thousand times. You know, a lot of stuff like that, 0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:28.200 Chronic Town. Then there were bands that came from California, 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:31.960 like the Rain Parade, which were part of this Paisley 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:34.800 underground movement that was out there. The Long Riders, the 0:45:36.040 --> 0:45:40.359 Rain Parade, the Three o'clock, the Dream Syndicate. We were 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:44.279 way into you know, X. I loved X. I loved 0:45:44.360 --> 0:45:47.320 the I mean, Billy Zoom is an amazing guitar player, 0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:50.480 and the songs were deeper and cooler than some of 0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:54.560 the punk rock that we first got into, like the 0:45:54.640 --> 0:45:57.279 Dead Kennedy's or The Black Flag or that, and so 0:45:58.000 --> 0:45:59.920 it was like the Clash and it became more like 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:03.000 rock and roll thing because the Clash and X and 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:06.239 these bands and the Ramones and you know, they were 0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:10.240 more they were more rock and roll and they had 0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:12.640 some swing, they had some difference and it wasn't just 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:17.160 hardcore punk. Yeah, So you know, that's kind of where 0:46:17.200 --> 0:46:19.879 it started. My dad had the first thing I taught 0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:22.400 myself how to play on guitar was a Dylan song. 0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:28.160 It was Oxford Town and Dad had he had that 0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:30.440 record at home, and I was and I just remember 0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:32.160 picking it out and then I picked out a couple 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:34.800 of rim songs, and I picked out a couple of things, 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:37.400 and that's just that's just how it got started. 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.520 Okay. Was the guitar the first instrument you played? 0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:45.880 Yeah? Yeah, And I started banging around on my dad's guitar. 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:48.319 He had this, He had this guitar that was a 0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:51.200 it was an old it was nineteen fifty three Martin 0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:57.560 d twenty eight wow or fifty four, and so I 0:46:57.960 --> 0:47:00.960 just remember picking it up and listening and like picking 0:47:01.000 --> 0:47:03.960 stuff out on the guitar, just picking it out. And 0:47:03.960 --> 0:47:07.000 then Dad would be like, you know, he didn't want 0:47:07.080 --> 0:47:11.200 us messing around with that guitar. So she was like, 0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:13.760 all right, here's four chords or four or five chords. 0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:17.040 He's showed me like ed AC and g and then 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:19.440 he showed me how to do harmonics, like this is 0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:21.200 what you do to make a harmonic, and that was 0:47:21.239 --> 0:47:24.759 about it. He was gregarious. He was great. I loved him, 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:27.120 but he did not have the patience to like sit 0:47:27.160 --> 0:47:29.399 down and teach me more than that, so I had 0:47:29.400 --> 0:47:32.960 to grow what you know. I never started playing guitar 0:47:33.040 --> 0:47:37.440 really till I was fifteen, fourteen or fifteen, and so 0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:39.920 I was late, you know, doing that, but I just 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.480 kept at it and I was and so, you know, 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:44.480 I took those five chords and the first thing I 0:47:44.480 --> 0:47:50.400 started doing was writing songs. And so Chris got a 0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:53.120 bass for Christmas, and I got a guitar for Christmas, 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:55.600 and then we got an amp to share and it 0:47:55.640 --> 0:47:58.279 was a bass amp and that was kind of it. 0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:01.799 And Chris, you know, he kind of played bass for 0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:05.120 a little bit, but he went he decided to be 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:08.480 a singer, you know. So that's how that that's how 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:09.000 that worked. 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:11.120 So what was the guitar you got? 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.440 I got a Lotus. It was a I guess it 0:48:14.520 --> 0:48:16.520 was a Japanese company. It was called Lotus, and it 0:48:16.560 --> 0:48:19.360 was a strat copy and so it looked like a 0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:22.479 stratocaster and we were into U two at the time, 0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:24.800 and it was like the edge is black and white 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:26.960 strat that he had. I remember that. I was like, 0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:29.640 oh wow, that's cool. It's like the Edges guitar. But 0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:31.920 it was the name of the brand was Lotus, and 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:35.000 uh and there was a bit there was a punk 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.720 rock band in Atlanta called Neon Christ, and I slapped 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:40.279 a big Neon Christ sticker on it. 0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:45.600 So, okay, it came late fourteen or fifteen. Your dad 0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:49.160 showed you a few chords. Did you ever take any lessons? 0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:52.719 No, I always most of the things I've done, I 0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:55.120 kind of taught myself, you know, taught myself how to 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:58.240 ride a bike. I taught myself really how to swim. 0:48:58.280 --> 0:48:59.719 I had a little bit of help, but it was 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:01.759 just like, you know, they would throw you in the 0:49:01.760 --> 0:49:04.920 pool and like you got to deal with it. I 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:08.560 remember them pushing us off the diving board in Atlanta 0:49:08.560 --> 0:49:11.319 at the YMCA, and Chris and I just having to 0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:15.319 you know, make it, and so you just kind of 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:17.120 have to do what you have to do. So a 0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:20.319 lot of those things I just taught myself and I 0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:25.120 so I started writing songs pretty quickly, and you know, 0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:27.800 we weren't much of a cover band. We were always 0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:31.319 right off the bat, just writing our own stuff. And 0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:34.960 one guy, you know, Chris, moved out when he was eighteen, 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:36.680 so he's two and a half years older than me. 0:49:36.719 --> 0:49:39.799 I was still I was sixteen at the time. Maybe 0:49:39.840 --> 0:49:43.480 I was fifteen, and there was a he lived with 0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:48.600 Steve Gorman, our old drummer, and Steve and Spinn and 0:49:49.920 --> 0:49:54.200 these other guys moved in with Chris into a house. 0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:58.359 And one of the guys in Steve's band was called Mary. 0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:00.920 My hope that one of the guys, his name is 0:50:01.000 --> 0:50:04.160 James Hall. He was the singer. And James showed me 0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:06.360 what open e with tuning was because I heard a 0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:08.360 song and I was like, what is that? That's amazing, 0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:10.600 you know, and he was like, oh, that's open tuning, 0:50:10.640 --> 0:50:12.839 this open e and you showed it to me, and 0:50:12.880 --> 0:50:16.000 it just sounded different to me. It just sounded so 0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:19.080 different than even just someone strumming an e and what 0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:21.600 you could do with it. And so I kind of 0:50:21.680 --> 0:50:23.759 started with that and just ran with it. 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:29.319 Okay, you started late and you come out full flowered 0:50:29.360 --> 0:50:33.319 five years later. Were you just practicing all the time? 0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:36.560 How'd you get so good? No? 0:50:36.760 --> 0:50:39.719 I'm you know, Chris and I hate we are the 0:50:39.800 --> 0:50:43.960 worst at rehearsing where and where even now we're like, oh, 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:47.560 we got to rehearse for five days and but no, 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:54.719 I just I mean, I stuck with it. But I 0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:57.800 loved building. It's just it's like building. It was building 0:50:57.880 --> 0:51:03.240 a song. I love taking new approaches and kind of learning. 0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:05.480 You know. Every time I would learn a new court 0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:07.880 or a new approach, that would just be another piece. 0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:10.200 There would be another word or another paragraph that I 0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:12.880 could add to my language of what I was writing 0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:16.120 or doing. We were playing shows. 0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:21.120 A little bit. You went to varying schools, but I'm 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:23.800 older than you. The Beatle era, we all saw the Beatles. 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:26.360 We all formed the band. Some people had downs, some 0:51:26.400 --> 0:51:28.960 people didn't. But there were bands who played at the 0:51:29.000 --> 0:51:32.640 school dances, the bar Mitzvas, whatever. What was your experience? 0:51:33.760 --> 0:51:37.200 Were a lot of people in bands? Was it something like? 0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:40.680 So? Where we were and I think the only time 0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:43.520 we ever really played out where we were was we 0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:47.520 played a graduate, Chris's graduation party, and it didn't end well. 0:51:47.560 --> 0:51:50.640 But we played Chris's graduation party, and that was really 0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:53.880 the only time. Maybe another time at like a house 0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:57.440 party out there that we played, but yeah, that was it. 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:01.200 Every other time. We kind of went straight to downtown 0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:04.640 Atlanta and we started playing in the Atlanta music scene, 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:07.680 which was more of an alternative scene. There was a 0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:09.640 lot of punk rock bands there, but there was a 0:52:09.640 --> 0:52:12.120 lot of you know, RIM kicked the door open for 0:52:12.239 --> 0:52:16.000 tons of bands in Atlanta that were part of that. 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:18.080 I mean Rim and the B fifty two's. I mean, 0:52:18.120 --> 0:52:21.200 there was a ton of stuff in the South between 0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:25.120 Nashville between Chapel Hill, where you had bands like Let's 0:52:25.200 --> 0:52:28.400 Active and you know the DB's, and then you had 0:52:28.880 --> 0:52:33.560 you know, Birmingham and Tuscaloosa and Columbia, South Carolina. So 0:52:33.600 --> 0:52:36.600 there was a ton of bands in that area. And 0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:40.319 Atlanta was the biggest city in the whole Southeast, so 0:52:40.400 --> 0:52:42.080 a lot of those bands would come through and we 0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:44.040 would play. But that's where we were, you know what 0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:46.720 I mean. We started with bands like Driving and Crying 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:50.439 they were going at the same time, and a lot 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:54.120 of local bands, and so that's I would get in, like, 0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:56.799 you know, I would finish with school when I by 0:52:56.840 --> 0:52:59.640 the time I was sixteen, I had my own car, 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.560 so finished school in our drive sound check. So we 0:53:02.560 --> 0:53:04.799 would be playing shows. We played shows and Athens. We 0:53:04.880 --> 0:53:08.759 played shows, you know, all over even on weeknights, and 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:12.239 I would finish school, come home, get my guitar, drive 0:53:12.320 --> 0:53:16.520 down to you know, to cab County or Atlanta or 0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:18.399 wherever we were playing a show, and then I would 0:53:18.400 --> 0:53:20.520 play the show, then come home by one in the morning, 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:22.239 and the wake up and go to school the next day. 0:53:22.480 --> 0:53:27.200 Okay, your brother moves out, he's living with other players. 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:30.520 At what point does it become a band or was 0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:32.120 it already a band before that? 0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:40.200 You know, it was a band before that, because you know, 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:42.239 we started a band. It was like our cousin was 0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:45.160 on drums and because he got a drum kit for Christmas, 0:53:45.200 --> 0:53:47.799 and we got guitars and a bass and so we 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:50.680 just kind of started bashing around right off the bat. 0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:56.480 But my cousin was playing soccer and his dad wanted 0:53:56.520 --> 0:54:00.399 him to didn't want him to be in a rock band, 0:54:00.440 --> 0:54:03.920 I guess. So we you know, we took it seriously 0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:06.560 and he wasn't prepared to take it the way we 0:54:06.640 --> 0:54:11.800 took it, I guess, And so we you know, started 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:13.759 just bringing in new people. We brought in a new 0:54:13.800 --> 0:54:17.160 bass player, we brought in a drummer. So we started 0:54:17.200 --> 0:54:20.799 moving forward like that, like we didn't there there was 0:54:20.840 --> 0:54:22.480 never a time where Chris and I were like, let's 0:54:22.480 --> 0:54:24.359 be in a band, let's do this. We just kind 0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:27.279 of did it, you know what I mean. It was like, 0:54:27.360 --> 0:54:29.439 all right, well he left, so let's get another guy 0:54:29.480 --> 0:54:31.359 in here. And while we're at it, let's get this 0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:35.319 bass player, this guy Keith Joyner who played bass with us. 0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:39.759 He was a really good musician. And Jeff Sullivan from 0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:42.880 Actually who went on to play with Driving Crying. He 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:46.440 was our drummer. And so we just started doing you know, 0:54:46.480 --> 0:54:51.120 more and more shows, you know, talent shows or shows 0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:54.200 at clubs. The first club show I ever played was 0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:59.120 I was fifteen, and we played the day of Live 0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:02.279 Aid and it was in Chattanoogam. We drove up there 0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:06.279 and opened for this band from California called Yoh, And 0:55:07.120 --> 0:55:10.920 you know, we just we packed up to station wagons 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:12.640 full of shit. We drove up there and brought some 0:55:12.760 --> 0:55:15.280 friends and the only people that were in that building 0:55:15.840 --> 0:55:19.440 were our friends. And so, you know, we kind of 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:22.040 started pretty quickly. You know. 0:55:22.560 --> 0:55:26.359 So you're saying you never played covers, It was always originals. 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:29.040 We did play a couple of covers, so we did 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:33.040 play you know, we played a couple of covers, but 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:38.480 it wasn't like our mainstay, you know, like I'm trying, like, 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:45.239 we played a couple of velvet underground songs and what 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:51.360 else do we play? By the time Towards the end, 0:55:51.440 --> 0:55:55.400 we were doing like Down in the Streets by the Stooges, 0:55:55.640 --> 0:55:58.359 and then we would do we'd throw in like an 0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:00.600 Aerosmith song. We did No No More. 0:56:00.640 --> 0:56:01.640 I love that. 0:56:01.640 --> 0:56:04.720 Actually, it's a fucking stellar No one. 0:56:04.560 --> 0:56:06.359 Ever talked about it. 0:56:06.360 --> 0:56:09.080 It's one of my favorite Aerosmith songs. But that was 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:12.000 a night George Jacolia saw us because we actually booked 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:18.320 some Uh. Chris was friends with this girl in Athens 0:56:18.400 --> 0:56:22.279 named Velina and she was dating Jefferson Holt who was 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:25.759 managing RAM at the time, and Jefferson was starting a 0:56:25.800 --> 0:56:30.719 record label. And also we had been dealing with A 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:33.480 and M Records at this all that this was all 0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:36.280 going on at the same time. A friend of ours 0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:39.839 who now owns this this I don't even know how 0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:41.360 what you would describe it, but you know, have you 0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:45.160 heard of thirty Tigers? Of course, yes. So our good 0:56:45.160 --> 0:56:48.840 friend is David Massias, right, So Dave was our first manager. 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:54.960 He worked at the record bar in Atlanta and Chris 0:56:55.400 --> 0:56:57.920 and it was at Lenox Mall, and so Chris and 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.480 I would go in there and Dave was like, I'm 0:57:00.480 --> 0:57:02.560 a drummer. So we're like, well, we live in the 0:57:02.760 --> 0:57:04.359 you know, we live out in the suburbs. You want 0:57:04.360 --> 0:57:07.320 to come try out. He came out and he was horrible. 0:57:07.400 --> 0:57:10.760 He was like, they actually had songs that I couldn't 0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:13.840 even He's like, I couldn't even hold a beat. He's like, 0:57:13.840 --> 0:57:15.840 all right, I'm not good, but I'll be your manager. 0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:18.120 We're like all right, man, you know, like whatever, we 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:20.800 liked Dave. He was a great guy, and so Dave 0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:24.800 was like he was really supportive and cool. So he's like, 0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:26.280 here's what I want you to do. I want you 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:28.160 to go make a demo. You have these songs. I 0:57:28.200 --> 0:57:30.240 really like them. Let's see what we can do. So 0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:32.720 he kind of he booked us. He started booking us 0:57:32.720 --> 0:57:36.200 shows in Atlanta, and he booked us a studio session 0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:39.760 at this guy's house somewhere in like I don't even. 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:42.479 It was like Decater, Georgia or something, and this guy 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:45.440 in the basement had his own studio, and so we 0:57:45.480 --> 0:57:48.400 went in there. We recorded maybe four or five songs, 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:51.520 and Dave was like, you know, I'm just going to 0:57:51.560 --> 0:57:53.520 send him out and see what happened. So he sent 0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:56.200 him to A and M Records, and he sent and 0:57:56.240 --> 0:57:58.080 one of them made its way to this guy named 0:57:58.120 --> 0:58:01.520 Aaron Jacovis. I don't know if you remember that. Aaron was. 0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:04.480 So Aaron was an A and R guy at A 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:08.720 and M, and he was like you know, he called 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:11.480 Dave back. He's like, yeah, I like what I hear. 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:13.720 Let's try to get him to do some demos or whatever. 0:58:14.160 --> 0:58:17.000 So he paid for us to do demos, Like was 0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:20.240 I guess it was like a technically a developmental deal 0:58:20.280 --> 0:58:22.920 with A and M. So we had two sessions of 0:58:23.000 --> 0:58:28.320 demos for A and M. And we did them in Boone, 0:58:28.480 --> 0:58:32.200 North Carolina, at this guy's house. His name was Steve 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:37.800 Grombach and he was the producer of the third Rain 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:42.880 Parade record, Crashing Dream, and so we were excited because 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:44.760 we loved Drain Parade. We're like, I can't believe we're 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:46.600 working with this guy. So we drove up there and 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:50.120 did some stuff and we made Yeah, we did two 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:53.040 demos with A and M. And they were cool and 0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.600 Aaron was kind of cool. And then he lost interest 0:58:56.960 --> 0:59:00.000 and we don't know why. He just kind of stopped 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:03.720 calling and it just didn't happen. So that's when Jefferson 0:59:03.760 --> 0:59:08.880 got involved. And Jefferson was like, well, I have a show. 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:12.320 He was booking a show for something up north. He's like, 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:14.360 you guys want to do the show? And I think 0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:17.560 it was a band called Will and the Bushman and 0:59:17.600 --> 0:59:19.960 it was a It was at a club called Drums 0:59:20.720 --> 0:59:22.640 in New York, and so we were like, all right, 0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:25.400 you know, we'll go check it out. Of course, you know, 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:27.720 we were kids. We were excited to go. So we 0:59:27.800 --> 0:59:30.840 drove up to New York and the show was in. 0:59:31.360 --> 0:59:33.520 There was a show in d C. There was a 0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:38.600 show in I think it was d C, New York 0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:43.920 and Boston. If I could be convoluting two timelines, but 0:59:43.960 --> 0:59:46.560 I think that was it. And so we went up there. 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:49.160 We played our set, and that set in particular we 0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:54.680 played I think it was down in the Street or 0:59:54.720 --> 0:59:57.320 it was nineteen sixty nine, but we played that. We 0:59:57.320 --> 0:59:59.280 played no More and More, and we played our songs 0:59:59.680 --> 1:00:03.280 and we finished, and I remember I was sitting out 1:00:03.320 --> 1:00:05.440 in the audience and there wasn't much of an audience, 1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:08.480 and George was sitting right next to me, and he 1:00:08.600 --> 1:00:11.120 seemed so much older than me, you know, he was, 1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:14.160 he was only like maybe five years older than me. 1:00:14.200 --> 1:00:15.960 But I was like, man, who's this old guy staring 1:00:16.000 --> 1:00:18.600 at me? You know, and he was like, hey, man, 1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:20.400 that was pretty good. I'm like thanks, and he's like, 1:00:20.440 --> 1:00:23.160 I'm George. And we met him and started hanging out. 1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:27.040 And he was an A and R for A and 1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:28.960 M Records on the East Coast, so he was in 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:31.439 the New York office and he had heard of us. 1:00:32.800 --> 1:00:35.040 He said he was in Atlanta and asked some people 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:37.520 around if there was some good, you know bands, and 1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:40.720 someone had said us, and so he wanted to come 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:43.040 see us in New York. So he came down and 1:00:43.080 --> 1:00:46.560 he really liked our covers. He's like, that's really cool 1:00:46.560 --> 1:00:48.640 that you did No More, No More in that iggy song, 1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:50.600 But I like your other stuff and so it was 1:00:50.680 --> 1:00:52.920 just it kind of kicked everything off, you. 1:00:52.880 --> 1:01:06.320 Know, before you get there. Once Chris is out of 1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:09.360 the house and you talk about this era of going 1:01:09.400 --> 1:01:12.880 to school and then playing at night. How much did 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:17.080 you gig? And since you're playing all originals, where are 1:01:17.120 --> 1:01:20.480 you playing? Are you making any money? What's happening in 1:01:20.520 --> 1:01:21.200 that period? 1:01:22.800 --> 1:01:25.400 So there's no money, I mean maybe fifty bucks, one 1:01:25.440 --> 1:01:31.720 hundred bucks tops, you know, and but we're playing, you know, 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:33.840 like we would drive up there. There was a club 1:01:33.840 --> 1:01:36.160 in Atlanta called the Cotton Club, which we remember we 1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:38.880 opened for Alex children there one time, which was pretty amazing. 1:01:39.560 --> 1:01:42.080 But that was a local club that we played a lot. 1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:45.120 There was a club called the White Dot. There was 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:49.880 a club called The Point. There was a club on 1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:52.240 Ponce de Leon that we one of the first shows 1:01:52.280 --> 1:01:55.600 we ever played, like you know, second or third like 1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:59.440 professional shows opening for like Larry T and The Now 1:01:59.480 --> 1:02:02.880 Explosion and that was on Punts and I can't remember 1:02:02.880 --> 1:02:06.120 what this celebrity club, that's what it was. So there 1:02:06.160 --> 1:02:08.200 was a ton of clubs in Atlanta that bands would 1:02:08.240 --> 1:02:11.240 go play and they would play original music. But we 1:02:11.400 --> 1:02:13.040 I mean as far as money goes, we would make 1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:17.320 fifty bucks or one hundred bucks tops the Dugout, which 1:02:17.360 --> 1:02:21.000 was near Emory. But you know, because of the South 1:02:21.080 --> 1:02:23.480 and the way it was, we could drive up to Athens. 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:26.480 We played the forty Wok Club, and we would play 1:02:26.480 --> 1:02:28.760 the Uptown Lounge and there was another club there called 1:02:28.800 --> 1:02:32.160 the Rockfish that we played. We would drive up to Charlotte. 1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:34.480 We would drive to Columbia. There was a place called 1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:38.160 Rockefellers in Columbia. There was another place. There was a 1:02:38.160 --> 1:02:42.520 place in Jacksonville. Man, what the fuck was the name 1:02:42.520 --> 1:02:47.560 of that place. Einstein at Gogo play in Tuscaloosa a 1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:50.400 lot playing Birmingham, and Birmingham was a couple of hours away, 1:02:50.400 --> 1:02:52.520 so we could go play there. So we built a 1:02:52.560 --> 1:02:55.720 network of shows. We could go play and do you know, 1:02:55.840 --> 1:02:58.720 either our own shows on a Tuesday night for the door, 1:02:59.160 --> 1:03:02.880 you know, or we could go you know, open for 1:03:02.960 --> 1:03:04.680 someone and get a hundred bucks here or there. 1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:09.440 It's hard to win over an audience without a record 1:03:09.760 --> 1:03:14.840 playing original material live. I mean, did you have any fans? 1:03:14.920 --> 1:03:15.720 What was going on? 1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:21.000 I mean in Atlanta people would show up, you know, 1:03:21.120 --> 1:03:24.040 there was a there was you know, it was harder 1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:29.000 to get people. Maybe Athens we had some friends, you know, 1:03:31.000 --> 1:03:32.880 but for the most part it was hard for people. 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:36.320 It was hard to get people to show up. But 1:03:36.440 --> 1:03:38.840 we kept at it. You know, we all loved doing 1:03:38.880 --> 1:03:41.920 what we were doing and none of that really mattered 1:03:41.920 --> 1:03:43.840 to us, you know, we were just having fun. 1:03:44.120 --> 1:03:45.640 And how often would you play? 1:03:46.920 --> 1:03:48.840 We would probably I mean we got to a point 1:03:48.840 --> 1:03:52.919 where we'd probably do about four to five shows a month, 1:03:53.840 --> 1:03:56.400 you know, we try to do one every week or 1:03:56.440 --> 1:03:57.920 every at least every two weeks. 1:03:58.680 --> 1:04:04.040 Okay, from the time that you reference your first professional 1:04:04.120 --> 1:04:08.120 gig till you're sitting next to George Draculius. How long 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:09.240 a period of time is that? 1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:19.160 It wasn't that long because I don't think I was 1:04:20.320 --> 1:04:26.480 old enough to drive. Maybe I just turned sixteen when 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:29.480 we went to New York, because I remember driving the 1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:32.920 van and I took a right the wrong turn, and 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:35.320 I wound up on the access road on the fifty 1:04:35.400 --> 1:04:41.280 ninth Street bridge and there's no rail right there, and 1:04:41.320 --> 1:04:43.440 they're they're like, oh my god, and like we're stuck, 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:46.080 and you know, I'm just like trying to stay away 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:50.880 from the fucking falling into the river. So I remember 1:04:50.960 --> 1:04:54.480 driving up there, So I was probably sixteen, So maybe 1:04:54.480 --> 1:04:55.040 it was a year. 1:04:56.600 --> 1:05:01.680 Okay, when was the dream to me? Was it from 1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:04.800 day one? Or was this a lark and all of 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:07.400 a sudden you got a reaction? What was going through 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:07.760 your head? 1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:10.360 It was more of a lark and we got a 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:16.960 reaction for me, I mean. But also, like unlike most 1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:21.520 of the things in my life, I enjoyed the process. 1:05:22.000 --> 1:05:24.200 I was more interesting, I mean, And that's what happens 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:27.200 when you're young. You know, the process is more fun 1:05:27.240 --> 1:05:30.200 than the end. You know, you're not looking to an 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:35.560 end to a means to an end. You're loving the process. 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:37.720 And like every time we would go out into the 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:40.280 world and every time we would play one of these shows, 1:05:40.280 --> 1:05:43.080 it was always different. It was always cool, it always 1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:47.680 you know, and it shifted like that. And so the ride, 1:05:47.960 --> 1:05:51.840 the journey was what was amazing. And so we never 1:05:52.480 --> 1:05:56.080 never really I mean, I think everyone was like, oh man, 1:05:56.120 --> 1:05:58.240 it would be great to be in a huge band, 1:05:59.080 --> 1:06:02.520 but I don't think any one thought about it like that. 1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:07.960 You know. So you're sitting next to George. What happens next? 1:06:08.200 --> 1:06:12.160 So George, you know, introduced himself and George is. We 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:15.880 love George. I mean, he's such a charming, hilarious person. 1:06:17.360 --> 1:06:19.320 He kind of became our I mean, he really did 1:06:19.360 --> 1:06:21.880 become our mentor you know, he took us in. He 1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:24.640 was like, I like your band, I like what you're doing. 1:06:25.480 --> 1:06:28.160 You know, you have ways to go, but I'm I'd 1:06:28.160 --> 1:06:31.120 like to help you get there, you know, and he would. 1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:33.800 And so we started. That's just basically when we started, 1:06:33.840 --> 1:06:38.240 and you know, he was like this kind of came 1:06:38.320 --> 1:06:40.280 up with a plan to sign us to A and M. 1:06:41.280 --> 1:06:43.400 We needed some more songs, and so he's like, I 1:06:43.400 --> 1:06:45.000 want you and Chris to go home and write, this 1:06:45.080 --> 1:06:47.200 is what I want, you know. And so Chris and 1:06:47.280 --> 1:06:51.760 I really took that. And the good thing about George 1:06:51.840 --> 1:06:58.360 is that, you know, he let us figure it out ourselves. 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:01.880 He wasn't saying it wasn't the type of producer or 1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:04.800 an R guy that would be like, you got to 1:07:04.800 --> 1:07:06.440 write this kind of song and this is what you 1:07:06.480 --> 1:07:08.720 need to do. But we would send him a song, 1:07:08.760 --> 1:07:10.640 he'd be like, ah, that sounds good, keep at it, 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:15.080 you know, And that's good and bad and it's not 1:07:15.120 --> 1:07:17.120 really bad. But for us at the time, it was 1:07:17.160 --> 1:07:19.480 frustrating because we're like, well, what are we doing wrong. 1:07:19.560 --> 1:07:21.280 It's like nothing, you just have to come to this 1:07:21.400 --> 1:07:24.520 on your own. And so in that sense, it did 1:07:24.560 --> 1:07:27.840 give us a work ethic to where we would just 1:07:27.960 --> 1:07:31.760 constantly write and constantly write until we reached a level 1:07:32.320 --> 1:07:36.560 where we where we you know, I mean, I kind 1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:40.960 of remember the first song I wrote for Shake Your 1:07:40.960 --> 1:07:43.600 Money Maker. That was on where she Talks to Angels, 1:07:43.600 --> 1:07:47.520 and I was like seventeen and it was an open 1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:50.880 E tuning and I wrote it and I knew something 1:07:50.960 --> 1:07:55.280 different was there. And then one of the next songs 1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:58.120 was Jealous again and I remember we were opening for 1:07:58.200 --> 1:08:01.160 Driving and Crying in now Spille at the exit in 1:08:01.520 --> 1:08:04.400 and they heard that song at sound checking there and 1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:06.440 and their guitar player was like, holy shit, what is 1:08:06.480 --> 1:08:08.160 that song? We're like, Oh, it was just one we 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:10.360 just wrote, you know what I mean, And you know, 1:08:10.440 --> 1:08:13.400 Chris and I had just finished it, and so you 1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:15.720 could kind of tell when the new stuff was coming 1:08:15.760 --> 1:08:21.120 in and it was much better, you know. And that 1:08:21.160 --> 1:08:24.040 was one hundred percent because of George telling us like, 1:08:25.000 --> 1:08:27.439 that's really good. Keep trying, buddy, you know what I mean, Like, 1:08:27.479 --> 1:08:29.400 that's that's cool, but you got to keep trying to 1:08:29.479 --> 1:08:31.800 keep trying. And so we really, I think it helped 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:37.040 us hone our uh our writing skills. It helped us, 1:08:38.360 --> 1:08:41.559 you know, learn a little bit of patients, although we're 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:44.599 not the most patient people. And it really it really 1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:46.840 brought us to this place, you know, where we were 1:08:47.120 --> 1:08:48.880 where we put in the hard work to make these 1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:49.920 songs the best they could be. 1:08:50.800 --> 1:08:54.759 So from the time you meet George to the time 1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:57.200 you sign a deal when you go in the studio, 1:08:57.320 --> 1:08:58.439 how long a time is that. 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:02.360 So I met George when I was sixteen, I think 1:09:02.360 --> 1:09:07.920 it was sixteen. By eighteen so in two years we 1:09:07.920 --> 1:09:11.880 were making Shake Your Money Maker, we did a demo 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:15.639 session at the place we were going to record, where 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:18.400 we just went in and recorded all the framework of 1:09:18.400 --> 1:09:20.160 all the songs, and then we were going to start 1:09:20.200 --> 1:09:22.479 again in like March. I think it was March or 1:09:22.479 --> 1:09:29.280 April when we started making the record, And so so 1:09:29.360 --> 1:09:32.240 it was a couple of years, and we had a 1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:36.599 couple of times where George would come down, you know, 1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:39.559 because it wasn't like once we met him, we all 1:09:39.600 --> 1:09:41.840 went home. We would talk to him every once in 1:09:41.880 --> 1:09:44.080 a while, we'd write a song, we'd send it to him. 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:48.320 There wasn't a plan, and so it didn't really start 1:09:48.439 --> 1:09:51.799 moving quickly until we got to let's say, eight songs 1:09:51.840 --> 1:09:54.720 that he thought were worthy of putting our record. You know, 1:09:55.120 --> 1:09:57.400 it's like, all right, these eight are cool. We need 1:09:57.400 --> 1:09:59.200 a ballot, or we need this, or we need that, 1:09:59.360 --> 1:10:01.439 or we would kind of you know, George. It was 1:10:02.080 --> 1:10:04.280 George had this idea of doing hard to handle and 1:10:04.520 --> 1:10:10.200 you know, and yeah, and and so those were the 1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:12.960 kind of suggestions that he brought, you know. And I 1:10:12.960 --> 1:10:15.519 think it was Chris that said, well, I don't want 1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:18.200 to do an Otis redding. I'm not. You know, I'm 1:10:18.240 --> 1:10:20.280 like twenty years old. I don't want to bust out 1:10:20.280 --> 1:10:23.320 an otis writing song. But he said, what if you 1:10:23.360 --> 1:10:25.519 do it like walk this way, you know what I mean, 1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:27.880 like a more rock and roll version. So that's what 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:30.360 was cool with it. And as time went on and 1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:32.640 as more songs went and that he liked and we 1:10:32.640 --> 1:10:35.800 were moving towards something, that's when it started speeding up. 1:10:36.280 --> 1:10:39.760 And so by the time I had like she Talks 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:42.960 to Angels, which was set, I was seventeen. So within 1:10:43.040 --> 1:10:45.839 those two years is really you know, when we started 1:10:45.840 --> 1:10:47.040 making the record. 1:10:47.200 --> 1:10:49.760 Well what point do you make a deal with Rick 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:51.200 Rubin and Death American. 1:10:52.000 --> 1:10:54.719 We didn't sign a deal until after we made the record, 1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:59.840 and you know, we never really saw any money until 1:11:00.080 --> 1:11:02.240 after the record was done. Like Rick just kind of 1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:06.240 paid for stuff, and but you know it was it 1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:11.280 was real loose and not you know, but we trusted George, 1:11:11.360 --> 1:11:13.000 you know what I mean, Like we just he was like, 1:11:13.080 --> 1:11:14.679 let's go make a record. We're like, all right, great, 1:11:14.720 --> 1:11:17.040 so we go in. We made this record. Took us 1:11:17.080 --> 1:11:21.840 a month. It costs like seventy thousand dollars to make. 1:11:21.920 --> 1:11:24.120 I remember because I was a kid and I was like, wow, you. 1:11:24.000 --> 1:11:27.120 Know, well, who was it George's seventy k who was paying? 1:11:27.200 --> 1:11:32.880 No, it was Rick. But like George wouldn't buy you know, 1:11:32.960 --> 1:11:36.120 there was no food, there was no strings, there was 1:11:36.200 --> 1:11:38.920 no like the one thing they paid for. It was 1:11:38.960 --> 1:11:43.000 like I had this telecaster and it needed it was 1:11:43.080 --> 1:11:46.160 totally needed to be refretted, and George paid for that. 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:48.200 And that was about it, you know what I mean. 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.680 It was like nothing else. And so we would go 1:11:50.760 --> 1:11:52.559 to you know, we would go there and we'd be like, man, 1:11:52.600 --> 1:11:55.040 we're hungry, and George'd be like, here when everyone share 1:11:55.080 --> 1:11:57.479 my big goal or whatever it was, or you know, 1:11:57.560 --> 1:11:59.599 he would buy some fries and be like, everyone share 1:11:59.640 --> 1:12:03.320 my frid like it wasn't you know which at the time, 1:12:03.360 --> 1:12:05.600 we didn't care because it was funny, you know, like 1:12:05.680 --> 1:12:08.360 we were just like whatever, we're making a record. But 1:12:08.520 --> 1:12:10.960 the studio and all that was paid for by Rick. 1:12:11.040 --> 1:12:14.200 I'm assuming, you know, we never really know what happened 1:12:14.200 --> 1:12:19.000 with that. But and then you know, the record was finished. 1:12:19.600 --> 1:12:21.720 We didn't have a manager yet, so then we had 1:12:21.800 --> 1:12:26.439 started looking for management, you know what I mean, And 1:12:26.479 --> 1:12:30.760 that's when we decided to you know, that's when the 1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:35.959 late the contract came in and there was this attorney 1:12:36.240 --> 1:12:41.559 in Atlanta who it wasn't great and he basically it 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:44.519 was a really shit deal and it was like Rick 1:12:44.640 --> 1:12:46.599 owned a lot of stuff that he shouldn't have owned, 1:12:47.040 --> 1:12:49.439 and we were getting paid nothing. And the guy was like, look, 1:12:49.439 --> 1:12:50.920 this is the best you're going to get. You might 1:12:50.960 --> 1:12:54.479 as well sign it, and you know, being teenagers, were like, 1:12:54.520 --> 1:12:56.840 all right, you know, I guess we should sign it. 1:12:56.920 --> 1:13:01.599 And you know, but we got out of that quickly. 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:04.840 We hired a manager that was that was able to 1:13:04.920 --> 1:13:08.160 see and we found a way to renegotiate and get 1:13:08.240 --> 1:13:08.960 all of it back. 1:13:10.120 --> 1:13:13.080 Was that before or after the record came out. 1:13:13.880 --> 1:13:16.240 It was after the record came out we had to 1:13:16.280 --> 1:13:20.600 deal with the deal that we had. But then a 1:13:20.680 --> 1:13:24.439 year into the tour, we discovered that, you know, as 1:13:24.479 --> 1:13:29.320 the record was kind of taking off, Rick didn't pick 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:32.760 up the option for the second record and he just 1:13:32.800 --> 1:13:36.080 forgot and so we were five million records sold by then, 1:13:36.160 --> 1:13:39.280 and we were lying. And so our manager was like 1:13:40.240 --> 1:13:42.160 because he went to him and good our manager went 1:13:42.200 --> 1:13:44.320 to him in good faith and just said like, come on, man, 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:46.519 this is a shit deal. You know, this is a 1:13:46.560 --> 1:13:49.640 shit deal. Let's make it right, you know what I mean, like, 1:13:49.720 --> 1:13:53.439 let's let's let's make this right. And Rick was like, nope, 1:13:53.560 --> 1:13:56.200 I'm not doing it. That's it. I'm not touching it. 1:13:56.320 --> 1:14:00.640 And so a year in or maybe it was a 1:14:00.720 --> 1:14:03.360 year or two, I can't remember the exact time. Whenever, 1:14:03.400 --> 1:14:05.000 the time was that he was supposed to pick up 1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:08.040 the option. Our manager was like, he didn't pick up 1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:10.880 the option, so we're going to go and you know, 1:14:10.960 --> 1:14:12.560 I'm going to give him one more chance. Maybe he 1:14:12.600 --> 1:14:14.439 doesn't do it, then we're going to play hardball. And 1:14:14.960 --> 1:14:18.760 that's what happened, and so we got everything back retroactively 1:14:18.880 --> 1:14:22.760 signed a huge you know, it was it was like 1:14:22.800 --> 1:14:26.559 along the lines of like a Celine Dion deal, which 1:14:26.600 --> 1:14:28.919 is one of the biggest deals signed in the industry 1:14:28.920 --> 1:14:32.559 at that time. And so it was a great deal 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:34.599 for us and it worked, and you know, so we 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:36.720 were able to reclaim a lot of this. 1:14:36.840 --> 1:14:38.920 Who was the manager and who was the lawyer at 1:14:38.920 --> 1:14:40.000 that point. 1:14:40.600 --> 1:14:43.479 Our manager was a guy named Pete Angelus and our 1:14:43.640 --> 1:14:45.360 lawyer was John Branca. 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:50.080 Okay brinca obviously experienced Pete Angelus has all this history. 1:14:50.560 --> 1:14:53.760 He's a wild character with David Lee Roth, how was 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:56.080 your experience with Pete? 1:14:56.479 --> 1:15:02.000 He you know Pete when we first started, like after 1:15:02.040 --> 1:15:04.600 the record was done, we changed our name because we 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:07.559 made the record under mister Crow's Garden and that was 1:15:07.600 --> 1:15:11.519 our more like jangly rimy kind of name that we liked. 1:15:12.040 --> 1:15:14.479 And everyone agreed at the label, like you got to 1:15:14.560 --> 1:15:18.240 change your name. Your your sound has changed, this is 1:15:18.280 --> 1:15:20.519 a new thing. Let's do this, and you know, so 1:15:20.560 --> 1:15:23.880 we kind of kicked things back and forth, and once 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:26.400 the record was done, the name was the Black Crows. 1:15:26.479 --> 1:15:30.680 This is what it was going to be. We you know, 1:15:30.720 --> 1:15:33.080 we were looking for managers and there were a couple 1:15:33.120 --> 1:15:35.200 of guys out there that were interested, and one of 1:15:35.200 --> 1:15:37.840 them was Rob Stewart's manager, and one of them was 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:43.800 Pete Angelis and we were talking to for a minute, 1:15:44.000 --> 1:15:46.280 but I think he obviously he had his hands full 1:15:46.439 --> 1:15:53.760 Peter Minch and Bernstein and then some smaller managers. There 1:15:54.120 --> 1:15:59.600 was a guy in Atlanta that was interested, but we 1:15:59.720 --> 1:16:02.679 just like Pete, you know, like he flew down to Atlanta, 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:04.560 he came to see us. We did a show. He 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:06.880 set up a show for us, and like we gave 1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:11.240 away free alcohol and like twelve people showed. It was 1:16:11.360 --> 1:16:13.639 like and we were you know, Chris and I were like, man, 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:16.200 only you know, can't even give away tickets or whatever, 1:16:16.800 --> 1:16:18.960 and so but it was cool. He was there, he 1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:23.280 got to see it, and we just really liked him 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:27.160 as a person personally. But I remember us always saying like, man, 1:16:27.200 --> 1:16:29.600 we're not David ly Roth and that whole thing is 1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:32.519 not us and that's not anything that we want. He goes, no, 1:16:32.680 --> 1:16:35.879 that's Dave. I understand that this is you. I totally 1:16:35.880 --> 1:16:41.400 get it. And so, you know, but yeah, he was 1:16:41.520 --> 1:16:43.679 He was smart, and he had a vision and we, 1:16:43.920 --> 1:16:46.559 you know, we appreciated his vision. And that's who he chose. 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:48.320 And how long did he last? 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:52.520 He was our manager for like twenty four years? 1:16:53.080 --> 1:16:58.080 Okay, how long after the album is finished is it released? 1:17:00.479 --> 1:17:04.680 So we finished in the summer of eighty nine and 1:17:04.720 --> 1:17:06.200 it came out in March of ninety. 1:17:07.880 --> 1:17:12.519 What transpires in those six months and what happens in 1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:15.879 terms of the band working Once the record comes out. 1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:21.559 We start doing more shows. We now were signed to 1:17:21.640 --> 1:17:24.439 a label, we have a record, and so we can 1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:27.080 start doing more and more. You know, we have the 1:17:27.120 --> 1:17:29.760 opportunity to do more stuff. And we started opening for 1:17:29.800 --> 1:17:32.400 bigger bands. I remember we played with the Red Hot 1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:36.439 Chili Peppers in Atlanta at the Fox. When they were 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:41.680 playing there, we played with this band that was they 1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:45.479 were like an indie band at the time, like a 1:17:45.520 --> 1:17:47.920 college band called the Rave Ups. No, it wasn't the 1:17:48.000 --> 1:17:50.599 Rave Ups. I can't remember the name of the band, 1:17:50.600 --> 1:17:53.000 but we opened for them as Charlotte. So we started 1:17:53.000 --> 1:17:55.600 getting more and more shows like that. There was a 1:17:55.600 --> 1:17:59.120 band in Atlanta called the swimming Pool Cues and so 1:17:59.240 --> 1:18:01.080 I remember playing with them one New Year, so we 1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:03.679 would We started like adding and ramping up the amount 1:18:03.720 --> 1:18:08.080 of shows we were playing, and we found a manager. 1:18:08.240 --> 1:18:10.760 That's when we hired Pete. We hooked up with this 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:17.679 guy who worked for the Georgia Satellites. His name was Kevin, 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:20.720 and he let us rehearse in his basement because that's 1:18:20.720 --> 1:18:23.960 where the satellites rehearsed. So I remember rehearsing down in 1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:27.240 the basement and he was on tour and we became 1:18:27.360 --> 1:18:30.360 and we were we paid the first month or so. 1:18:30.920 --> 1:18:33.080 When he came home from tour, he was like, man, 1:18:33.080 --> 1:18:34.880 I really like your band. I want to let you 1:18:35.640 --> 1:18:37.880 rehearse for free. I love what you're doing. Or whatever, 1:18:38.320 --> 1:18:41.320 and he became a friend of ours and he was 1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:44.479 kind of cool, put us on some he helped book 1:18:44.560 --> 1:18:46.960 us some shows too. Before this was all before we 1:18:47.040 --> 1:18:51.880 hired Pete, because Pete probably wasn't hired until January, so 1:18:51.960 --> 1:18:54.360 it was between the end of the record in January. 1:18:54.360 --> 1:18:56.479 It was about five or six months that we did 1:18:57.000 --> 1:18:59.320 for us. At the time, it felt like an eternity, 1:18:59.400 --> 1:19:03.120 you know. But you know, you look back now, you're like, man, 1:19:03.200 --> 1:19:09.200 that was nothing. And so, but you know, we kind 1:19:09.200 --> 1:19:11.720 of used his house as a headquarters to talk to 1:19:11.800 --> 1:19:14.519 these people, to talk to managers and to and we 1:19:14.560 --> 1:19:16.959 asked his advice because he had been in the industry 1:19:16.960 --> 1:19:21.439 and we thought he knew something and so, but it 1:19:21.520 --> 1:19:23.639 turned out to bite us in the ass. The night 1:19:23.680 --> 1:19:26.840 before we left, or the week before we left to 1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:29.360 go on tour, his wife was pregnant. He didn't know 1:19:29.439 --> 1:19:32.200 she was pregnant. He was going to be our tour manager, 1:19:33.040 --> 1:19:36.599 and she gave birth unexpectedly all of a sudden. He's 1:19:36.640 --> 1:19:42.640 a father, it's all. It's a whole story. She was 1:19:42.680 --> 1:19:45.639 a larger woman, and I guess she didn't tell him 1:19:45.760 --> 1:19:47.920 that she was pregnant. And then there was some drugs 1:19:47.920 --> 1:19:54.680 involved and so whatever. But so she, you know, all 1:19:54.680 --> 1:19:57.519 of a sudden he found himself as I'm a father, 1:19:58.680 --> 1:20:01.479 and so he was going to be our tour manager, 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:03.120 but he's like, I can't. I have to stick with 1:20:03.360 --> 1:20:06.840 the satellites because they're more solid for me. So he 1:20:06.920 --> 1:20:09.280 let us go and that was cool, and then a 1:20:09.360 --> 1:20:11.760 year later, when we hit a million records, he came 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:13.960 down to see us and started asking us for money 1:20:14.000 --> 1:20:18.680 and then started writing threatening factxes, saying he's gonna you know, 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:21.240 we promised him something and we owe him this and 1:20:21.479 --> 1:20:24.160 wants fifty thousand dollars and if we don't pay him, 1:20:24.160 --> 1:20:26.479 it's going to get ugly, and just more and more. 1:20:26.640 --> 1:20:28.960 It kind of ramped up, and then he wound up 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.559 suing us at the end of shaking money Maker for 1:20:32.600 --> 1:20:34.960 like two point two million dollars or something. That's what 1:20:35.000 --> 1:20:36.040 he was trying to sue us for. 1:20:36.640 --> 1:20:37.599 Gow did that end up? 1:20:38.600 --> 1:20:42.120 Well, he sued us and he lost, and we or No. 1:20:42.360 --> 1:20:44.559 It was a it was kind of a hung jury, 1:20:44.560 --> 1:20:48.719 and it was a weird scene because after the trial 1:20:49.600 --> 1:20:52.760 you can interview the jury and see what the thinking was. 1:20:52.800 --> 1:20:57.599 And apparently there was one guy that had convinced half 1:20:57.680 --> 1:21:00.840 of the jury that he was going to sell a 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:05.880 book of the trial, and so he got half the 1:21:05.960 --> 1:21:09.720 jury to sign on to his book by using, you know, 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:13.559 like a like some sort of napkin, which is what 1:21:13.680 --> 1:21:17.160 the guy like, we wrote, we wrote about this guy, 1:21:17.200 --> 1:21:19.200 you know, Kevin. We're like, you're one of us, Kevin, 1:21:19.400 --> 1:21:23.040 you know all these things, and then he said that 1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:25.000 and it was on literally on a napkin, and he 1:21:25.040 --> 1:21:27.600 said that was a contract that promised him, you know, 1:21:28.400 --> 1:21:32.200 seventeen percent of all proceeds from the record, Like we 1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:34.840 were just saying, we're going to miss you, you know 1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:37.840 what I mean, It was like that. And so but 1:21:37.960 --> 1:21:41.879 this guy who was some finance guy on the jury 1:21:42.439 --> 1:21:45.280 convinced he's like a school teacher, and a person that 1:21:45.360 --> 1:21:49.679 worked for you know, Bell South at the time, which 1:21:49.720 --> 1:21:51.920 was like a phone company, and someone that was like 1:21:51.960 --> 1:21:54.160 a truck driver. He convinced them they were going to 1:21:54.240 --> 1:21:56.760 make a lot of money. So they voted against us. 1:21:57.080 --> 1:21:59.479 The other people are like, this guy's fucking crazy. He's 1:21:59.520 --> 1:22:01.559 trying to take advantage of you. We see all this 1:22:01.640 --> 1:22:04.120 that's going on. So it was a hung jury, and 1:22:04.160 --> 1:22:06.360 instead of us going back to trial and giving the 1:22:06.400 --> 1:22:10.479 attorneys another couple hundred thousand dollars. We just decided to settle, 1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:13.479 and our manager Pete flew down and negotiated with them 1:22:13.880 --> 1:22:16.559 and wound and finished it in a day, and it 1:22:16.600 --> 1:22:18.559 was done and we never had to deal with it again. 1:22:26.920 --> 1:22:31.160 Okay, from the outside, it looks like an instant's success. 1:22:31.240 --> 1:22:33.519 What was it like from the inside. 1:22:34.120 --> 1:22:36.760 From the inside, Yes, you're correct, it does look like 1:22:36.800 --> 1:22:40.200 that from the outside. From the inside, I mean, just 1:22:40.240 --> 1:22:42.439 by nature of being teen, I mean, you know, I 1:22:42.479 --> 1:22:46.120 was still a teenager. It seemed to take forever. I mean, 1:22:46.120 --> 1:22:48.000 not only was I a teenager, but most of it 1:22:48.000 --> 1:22:49.120 I was still in high school. 1:22:50.040 --> 1:22:53.640 So you know, I was like, I'm actually referring to 1:22:53.680 --> 1:22:56.840 when the record is finally released. Oh, it seemed like 1:22:56.880 --> 1:22:58.960 it was successful instantly. 1:23:00.160 --> 1:23:02.959 Yeah, I mean, you know, we did two tours opening 1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:07.200 for these club bands. One was called a junk one 1:23:07.280 --> 1:23:10.120 was called Junkyard, and one was called MSG, which is 1:23:10.160 --> 1:23:15.479 McAuley Shanker Group. And so McCauley Shanker Group was Michael 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:19.720 Shanker and another guy McCauley, who was a singer, and 1:23:20.680 --> 1:23:23.519 you know, they would do clubs and Junkyard did clubs, 1:23:23.560 --> 1:23:25.640 and so it was like two four. I think it 1:23:25.680 --> 1:23:28.120 was like four or six week lags around the States, 1:23:28.160 --> 1:23:30.960 just right back to back, and then we got Aerosmith 1:23:31.720 --> 1:23:34.880 and Aerosmith was kind of the first arena shows, big 1:23:34.920 --> 1:23:39.000 shows we were playing. And so right before Aerosmith, we 1:23:39.000 --> 1:23:41.200 flew to Europe to do a quick stint our, first 1:23:41.200 --> 1:23:44.439 time in Europe, came back to do Aerosmith, and it 1:23:44.479 --> 1:23:46.200 was just kind of growing, but it was it was 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:49.439 growing steady, but it wasn't like it didn't feel like 1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:53.719 an you know, it's basically a March to December where 1:23:53.760 --> 1:23:57.280 we in December we hit a million records, the first million, 1:23:58.000 --> 1:24:02.200 and so that's you know, nine months and so for 1:24:02.360 --> 1:24:06.360 us and being on tour and how time moved back 1:24:06.400 --> 1:24:09.120 then and how we were as kids because I was 1:24:09.240 --> 1:24:13.120 I didn't turn twenty, so you know, you're dealing with 1:24:14.439 --> 1:24:16.800 you know, you're dealing with this. It seems like a 1:24:16.840 --> 1:24:20.360 long time, but it wasn't like painstaking because we're always 1:24:20.360 --> 1:24:23.360 doing something. You know, it's Junkyard and then it's this 1:24:23.479 --> 1:24:26.200 other band, and then it's Robert Plan you know, Aerosmith, 1:24:26.280 --> 1:24:29.439 Robert plant Heart. Then we played we did a headline 1:24:29.439 --> 1:24:31.479 club show, and then we played with Eazy Top, and 1:24:31.520 --> 1:24:33.800 then we finally got to the point where we could 1:24:33.840 --> 1:24:36.479 headline our own theaters because we got kicked off as 1:24:36.479 --> 1:24:41.240 Easy Top and so, you know, and then once we 1:24:41.360 --> 1:24:44.639 joined Easy Top in January, we were selling like two 1:24:44.680 --> 1:24:47.599 hundred thousand albums a week and so it quickly went 1:24:47.600 --> 1:24:50.559 from a million to three million albums like like that. 1:24:50.880 --> 1:24:53.320 And then that's when it like that January is when 1:24:53.320 --> 1:24:55.840 it just seemed to just launch, you know what I mean. 1:24:55.880 --> 1:24:57.960 And that's when it kicked in and we're like, holy shit, 1:24:58.160 --> 1:24:59.200 like this is a big deal. 1:25:00.200 --> 1:25:03.559 So how'd you cope with the success? 1:25:03.840 --> 1:25:10.040 Uh? You know, everyone, you know, when you're when you're 1:25:10.080 --> 1:25:12.559 on tour, you're in a bubble. You know. Some people 1:25:12.640 --> 1:25:15.040 call your bus a submarine, you know what I mean. 1:25:15.680 --> 1:25:20.080 And so we're and and it's very insular. So the 1:25:20.120 --> 1:25:23.920 world was changing around us, but we were still on 1:25:23.960 --> 1:25:30.120 this one path. It didn't, you know. So when we 1:25:30.200 --> 1:25:33.200 first did our first bunch of theater shows in America, 1:25:33.280 --> 1:25:35.360 that felt like a big deal. We were on the 1:25:35.400 --> 1:25:38.000 cover Rolling Stone. We got kicked off as Easy Top 1:25:38.080 --> 1:25:42.960 because Chris was you know, ZZ was at the time 1:25:43.080 --> 1:25:45.479 was sponsored by bud Light. No, it wasn't bud Light. 1:25:45.520 --> 1:25:49.760 It was Miller Lte, and so, you know, Chris was 1:25:50.240 --> 1:25:53.639 becoming slightly disillusioned with some of the older bands because 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:58.000 they were, you know, using backing tape or taking money 1:25:58.000 --> 1:26:02.680 from corporations and and he's he's a romantic, so he 1:26:02.880 --> 1:26:05.000 was like at the time, he was like, that's kind 1:26:05.040 --> 1:26:08.160 of bullshit, you know, like, and so he would say 1:26:08.200 --> 1:26:10.320 some things like we're brought to you by no one 1:26:10.439 --> 1:26:14.040 or whatever it may be. And then ZZ, I mean 1:26:14.080 --> 1:26:17.080 Miller Lte started getting up tight about what we were saying, 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:22.040 and so they started complaining to Bill Hamm, who was 1:26:22.120 --> 1:26:26.240 Zz's manager. And Bill Hamm would come to us, started 1:26:26.240 --> 1:26:28.439 coming to us and our manager and saying like, hey, 1:26:28.479 --> 1:26:30.360 you need to tell your singer to watch his mouth 1:26:30.439 --> 1:26:33.120 or whatever. And that was all Chris needed to make 1:26:33.160 --> 1:26:35.559 sure he didn't watch his mouth. It would just he 1:26:35.560 --> 1:26:39.720 would just go out and double down and randomly, We're 1:26:39.760 --> 1:26:42.559 playing in Atlanta at the at the Omni. There's three 1:26:42.680 --> 1:26:49.599 nights at the Omni, and we were doing it. It 1:26:49.640 --> 1:26:55.840 was scheduled to be a like a big interview with 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.040 Rolling Stone, but it wasn't a cover. So they sent 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.160 David Frick down. So David was down there to do 1:27:01.200 --> 1:27:04.439 this and we got That was the night we got 1:27:04.520 --> 1:27:06.880 kicked off, and they came in and they're like, all right, 1:27:06.920 --> 1:27:09.960 you know, you're off the you're off this tour. And 1:27:10.040 --> 1:27:11.960 so we were like, all right, man, you know, and 1:27:12.240 --> 1:27:14.680 it and then it was just big news. The next day, 1:27:14.760 --> 1:27:17.200 was on the cover of the Atlanta Journal Constitution. The 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:21.360 next day, you know, all of these things happened and 1:27:21.479 --> 1:27:25.400 then and it was for you know, the reason, like 1:27:25.479 --> 1:27:28.880 you know, Chris said, it's bullshit and I'm not gonna 1:27:28.880 --> 1:27:30.960 I'm I don't work for Miller Light and fuck those 1:27:31.000 --> 1:27:32.719 guys and blah blah blah blah blah, and it turned 1:27:32.720 --> 1:27:36.320 into this thing. And so that then pushed us to 1:27:36.360 --> 1:27:38.559 be on the cover Rolling Stone, and it pushed us 1:27:38.560 --> 1:27:44.519 into this next level. And so you could kind of 1:27:44.560 --> 1:27:49.880 tell at that moment that things were getting big, you know, 1:27:50.040 --> 1:27:53.960 because it was constant, certain things were consequential. And then 1:27:54.000 --> 1:27:56.320 the next and so we got kicked off as Easy Top, 1:27:56.360 --> 1:27:59.679 and that's when we booked our whole summer headline theater 1:27:59.800 --> 1:28:03.840 to Or with this band called Jellyfish opening for us, 1:28:04.400 --> 1:28:07.920 which was an amazing band and we loved touring with them, 1:28:07.960 --> 1:28:10.000 but we were playing you know, four or five thousand 1:28:10.080 --> 1:28:16.479 seat places. We played the Santa Barbara County Bowl. You know, 1:28:17.120 --> 1:28:20.720 we were playing these places and we're headlining, all of them 1:28:20.720 --> 1:28:24.479 are selling out, and it was like shit, you know, 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:29.280 this is amazing. And then after that ended, we went 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:31.800 to Europe and we did Monsters of Rock and Stadiums 1:28:31.800 --> 1:28:37.400 with ac DC and Metallica, which was phenomenal too, because 1:28:37.439 --> 1:28:39.679 we're playing in front of one hundred thousand people a night. 1:28:39.720 --> 1:28:42.800 We're going up there. I mean, although we were the 1:28:42.840 --> 1:28:45.160 opening band or one of the opening bands, I can't 1:28:45.160 --> 1:28:48.280 remember if we were first or second sometimes, but it 1:28:48.400 --> 1:28:51.840 was like, you know, ACDC came over and they were like, 1:28:51.880 --> 1:28:54.639 we love your band. It's proper rock and roll band. 1:28:54.720 --> 1:28:59.400 And you know, we had played some shows with Aerosmith 1:28:59.400 --> 1:29:03.240 and Metallica the summer, so we knew those guys and 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:04.920 and it was just this thing and it was like 1:29:04.960 --> 1:29:08.679 fuck man. We played Amsterdam and Malcolm and Angus came 1:29:08.680 --> 1:29:11.760 to see us at the Paradiso on a night off, 1:29:11.800 --> 1:29:14.000 which we thought was really cool. And then we played 1:29:14.000 --> 1:29:16.479 that show in Moscow. So there was that big show 1:29:16.520 --> 1:29:19.559 in Moscow that where there was you know, a million 1:29:19.640 --> 1:29:23.440 people that showed up to it. Was US a CDC Metallica, 1:29:23.479 --> 1:29:26.320 I think Pantera was there, and it was right after 1:29:26.360 --> 1:29:30.559 the fall of you know, communists basically, and so we 1:29:30.560 --> 1:29:34.280 were flown over and that was kind of the pinnacle 1:29:34.320 --> 1:29:38.240 of everything, you know, where it was just like things 1:29:38.240 --> 1:29:42.280 were really amazing. And you know, it's always to me, 1:29:42.320 --> 1:29:44.479 I always like and it to like climbing Mount Everest. 1:29:44.600 --> 1:29:47.640 You know, we as a group of people over it. 1:29:47.640 --> 1:29:50.559 Because that tour lasted eighteen months or twenty months and 1:29:50.600 --> 1:29:53.960 three hundred and fifty shows and we just we just 1:29:54.080 --> 1:29:56.879 climbed this mountain, you know what I mean, and together 1:29:57.560 --> 1:30:00.960 and that was a really cool thing to be able 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:01.920 to do, you know. 1:30:03.240 --> 1:30:06.320 Okay, when did you see your first check? 1:30:09.080 --> 1:30:12.560 The first big check we got We signed a publishing 1:30:12.600 --> 1:30:14.759 deal and that was a big check and that really 1:30:15.960 --> 1:30:21.920 that really put a lot in perspective. So that was 1:30:21.960 --> 1:30:24.840 about a year, maybe fourteen months into the tour. 1:30:27.080 --> 1:30:30.640 So when you got money first on the contract? Was 1:30:30.680 --> 1:30:32.920 it just you and your brother forget the song, right, 1:30:32.920 --> 1:30:35.200 I'm talking about the record deal? Was it just you 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:37.560 and your brother? Are all members of the band. 1:30:38.560 --> 1:30:42.799 It was all of us, Okay, I remember correctly. 1:30:43.280 --> 1:30:45.720 So when you get the first money, what do you 1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:46.280 do with it? 1:30:51.640 --> 1:30:54.320 Well, we never got any money from Rick, and it 1:30:54.400 --> 1:30:57.720 wasn't and we didn't and we were still we were 1:30:57.800 --> 1:31:02.000 so unrecoup because we were taking so much, you know, 1:31:02.040 --> 1:31:04.720 it was like tour support, all these different things, and 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:09.560 Rick had some interesting ways of accounting, so there was 1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:11.840 a lot of stuff that was in there. It wasn't 1:31:11.920 --> 1:31:14.680 until that publishing check that Chris and I got, we 1:31:14.720 --> 1:31:18.000 each got one, that I really had a lot of 1:31:18.040 --> 1:31:20.920 money in our pockets for the first time. And I 1:31:20.960 --> 1:31:25.639 bought a house and a car, and he bought a house, 1:31:28.160 --> 1:31:30.680 and that was kind of the first, you know, but 1:31:30.800 --> 1:31:33.160 it was while I was on tour, you know what 1:31:33.200 --> 1:31:35.240 I mean, because still at that time, I was flying 1:31:35.240 --> 1:31:37.479 home and staying with my parents because I never really 1:31:37.520 --> 1:31:40.320 moved out because I made the records when I was 1:31:40.360 --> 1:31:43.320 so young and then been left, you know what I mean. 1:31:43.439 --> 1:31:46.680 So getting my own house was a big deal. You know. 1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:50.559 Well, you make four records with Rick P. D Angelis, 1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:54.519 we negotiated the contract with Brinka. Do you ever get 1:31:54.560 --> 1:31:56.120 paid record royalties from Rick? 1:31:56.960 --> 1:32:00.280 Yeah, we did after that, especially retroactively, because once we 1:32:00.280 --> 1:32:04.280 renegotiated and everything kind of came back, money started coming 1:32:04.320 --> 1:32:06.160 in that was O. 1:32:06.160 --> 1:32:10.560 Okay. In terms of the royalties, In terms of the publishing, 1:32:11.439 --> 1:32:12.439 do you still own that? 1:32:16.320 --> 1:32:19.720 Well, we get yeah, we get royalties from everything. 1:32:20.200 --> 1:32:22.360 Well, I guess that you were in an era the 1:32:22.439 --> 1:32:26.360 last five seven years where people are selling their catalogs, 1:32:26.479 --> 1:32:30.760 they're selling their publishing, they're selling their royalties. Is that 1:32:30.880 --> 1:32:32.800 something you've ever done? 1:32:33.080 --> 1:32:36.280 No, I mean, I mean no one's talked to I mean, 1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:38.880 we haven't really talked about it right now about that 1:32:38.960 --> 1:32:42.320 because a lot of people are selling their stuff, but 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:46.400 you have not. No, we haven't sold it. Now. 1:32:46.920 --> 1:32:50.040 Okay, if you never worked again, do you get enough 1:32:50.080 --> 1:32:52.120 money coming in from all this that you don't have 1:32:52.200 --> 1:32:52.559 to work? 1:32:53.600 --> 1:32:56.160 I mean, yeah, we would have to make adjustments, but yeah, 1:32:56.200 --> 1:32:58.480 we do. Well. 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:02.000 Okay, So now let's go back. When do you start 1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:07.680 thinking about and writing and recording the second album? 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:15.200 Chris and I were writing songs. I mean, we wrote 1:33:15.280 --> 1:33:18.200 maybe two or three albums worth the material during the 1:33:18.240 --> 1:33:28.759 Shaker Moneymaker tour, and so you know, we're constantly writing, 1:33:28.800 --> 1:33:33.080 and so there were two or three songs that we 1:33:33.240 --> 1:33:37.720 had that wound up being on Southern Harmony. One was 1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:41.479 my Morning Song. I remember writing that in Houston while 1:33:41.479 --> 1:33:44.240 we were on tour with Jellyfish, and then I wrote 1:33:44.280 --> 1:33:47.439 Thrown to My Pride. I remember playing Thorn in My 1:33:47.560 --> 1:33:49.439 Pride in. 1:33:50.880 --> 1:33:53.080 Which is my favorite Black Rose song. I'll just leave 1:33:53.120 --> 1:33:53.360 it at that. 1:33:53.800 --> 1:33:58.599 Oh well, thank you. I remember playing that in Dublin 1:33:59.439 --> 1:34:03.880 one of the last shows. And then I wrote black 1:34:03.920 --> 1:34:09.120 Moon Creeping at the sound check in at the County 1:34:09.160 --> 1:34:14.759 Bowl in San Barbara. So we had those three songs, 1:34:15.560 --> 1:34:18.439 and then but when we got to when it was 1:34:18.439 --> 1:34:21.360 time to make that record, because we got home like 1:34:21.600 --> 1:34:25.120 right around Halloween, like it was fat, I mean, you know, 1:34:25.200 --> 1:34:27.280 like we finished. I think it was like a week 1:34:27.320 --> 1:34:30.240 before Halloween, and George came out because we were going 1:34:30.320 --> 1:34:32.479 to start writing the next record. We wanted to go 1:34:32.560 --> 1:34:35.440 right in. We felt like we had all this newfound 1:34:35.680 --> 1:34:37.760 power as a band, you know what I mean, like 1:34:37.800 --> 1:34:40.879 playing three hundred and fifty shows straight, We're like firing 1:34:40.920 --> 1:34:45.080 on all cylinders. We want to use that. So Chris 1:34:45.160 --> 1:34:48.120 had bought his house. I had my house, so we 1:34:49.720 --> 1:34:52.640 you know, Chris had a setup in his base in 1:34:52.640 --> 1:34:55.040 his garage and it was just me and him and 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:57.760 I went over there. We wrote the rest of the 1:34:57.800 --> 1:35:00.000 record in about three in about two to three days, 1:35:00.120 --> 1:35:03.000 it was over the weekend. You know, George was there 1:35:03.040 --> 1:35:04.920 and he was on the phone a lot, and so 1:35:05.680 --> 1:35:08.519 I remember he was upstairs and Chris and I would 1:35:08.560 --> 1:35:10.519 just be writing, like George's on the phone, you know, 1:35:10.600 --> 1:35:12.920 so let's just write. And then at the end of 1:35:12.960 --> 1:35:15.160 the weekend, George like, all right, let's get started, and 1:35:15.240 --> 1:35:18.800 Chris and I were like, we're done. Like, you know, 1:35:18.880 --> 1:35:25.400 we weren't going to let We weren't going to let pressure. 1:35:26.400 --> 1:35:28.799 We weren't going to allow pressure to have any effect 1:35:28.840 --> 1:35:33.040 on how we wrote that record. We were excited to 1:35:33.120 --> 1:35:36.000 write it, we wanted and the songs were rocking and 1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:38.920 it was we were really happy with what was coming out. 1:35:39.240 --> 1:35:41.479 But we weren't going to be too precious about it. 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:44.360 We weren't going to like sit and try to, oh, well, 1:35:44.439 --> 1:35:46.320 you know, we sold all these records, we need to 1:35:46.360 --> 1:35:48.760 try to do that again. And where's this where's the 1:35:48.800 --> 1:35:50.839 hard to handle, And where's this she talks to angels 1:35:50.920 --> 1:35:52.800 or whatever. We were just like, man, fuck it, this 1:35:52.840 --> 1:35:55.200 is a record we're going in. We're gonna make it, 1:35:55.479 --> 1:35:57.760 and we made it in eight days. It took us 1:35:57.760 --> 1:36:00.960 eight days to make that record, and most of the 1:36:01.040 --> 1:36:04.800 takes were single takes. The first time we played it 1:36:04.920 --> 1:36:07.120 to tape is when is the one that was in 1:36:07.240 --> 1:36:09.640 and then the rest of them were second tape. There 1:36:09.640 --> 1:36:13.439 were no you know, songs that took ten takes or 1:36:13.600 --> 1:36:15.240 you know, we had to keep coming back to. It 1:36:15.280 --> 1:36:18.320 was just we were in. We were firing on all cylinders. 1:36:18.360 --> 1:36:21.040 It was it was done, and we were thrilled with 1:36:21.080 --> 1:36:21.680 what it was. 1:36:21.840 --> 1:36:28.040 You know, Okay, that album goes double platinum, then the 1:36:28.080 --> 1:36:31.719 sales start to decrease. To what degree does that bother 1:36:31.800 --> 1:36:34.040 you it? 1:36:34.680 --> 1:36:41.360 You know, it debuted at one and it was poised 1:36:41.400 --> 1:36:46.680 to but you know it was poised to go, you know, 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:51.840 but also at the time, at the end of Shaking 1:36:51.880 --> 1:36:55.519 money Makers, when grunge came out, right, like Nirvana's first 1:36:55.560 --> 1:36:58.120 record came out at the end of that record, So 1:36:58.280 --> 1:37:00.840 there was hair metal, then there was and then for 1:37:00.880 --> 1:37:03.920 a short year and then it was like Nirvana and 1:37:03.960 --> 1:37:07.479 grunge came and so you know, we had about an 1:37:07.479 --> 1:37:11.639 eighteen month period where you know, we kind of pushed 1:37:11.720 --> 1:37:15.960 hair metal out of the way for something different, and 1:37:16.000 --> 1:37:21.880 then this other thing came and so we were you know, 1:37:21.920 --> 1:37:25.679 we were playing roots rock music, roots rock and roll music, 1:37:26.360 --> 1:37:28.760 and also we chose our own path. Like again, we've 1:37:28.760 --> 1:37:34.600 always been on our own path. When Some Harmony was 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:39.080 finished before it came out, Lars called me from Metallica 1:37:39.240 --> 1:37:41.000 and was like they were getting you know, They're like, 1:37:41.000 --> 1:37:43.840 we're doing the Stadium tour with Guns and Roses and 1:37:43.880 --> 1:37:46.280 we want you to be on the tour with us, 1:37:46.439 --> 1:37:49.519 and you know, and I was like, oh, wow, you 1:37:49.560 --> 1:37:52.639 know that would be cool. But I said, I think 1:37:52.640 --> 1:37:55.080 we're going to do our own thing, you know, we 1:37:55.120 --> 1:37:58.800 want to do our own tour. And Lars was like, man, 1:37:58.840 --> 1:38:00.800 you're making a mistake. You know. He was really cool, 1:38:00.840 --> 1:38:02.360 he was always great, but he was like, I think 1:38:02.360 --> 1:38:04.040 it would be really good for your career, you know, 1:38:04.160 --> 1:38:06.960 to play in front of all these people. And but 1:38:07.200 --> 1:38:09.160 you know, we were really dead set on doing our 1:38:09.200 --> 1:38:11.599 own thing. And what we chose to do was three 1:38:11.720 --> 1:38:15.000 or five nights at theaters. You know, we wanted to 1:38:15.040 --> 1:38:18.439 go in. We opened three nights at this theater and 1:38:20.120 --> 1:38:23.960 you know, in Minneapolis, and then played you know, five 1:38:24.040 --> 1:38:26.519 nights at the Fox and five nights at the Beacon 1:38:26.920 --> 1:38:29.400 in New York. And we we kind of took a 1:38:29.439 --> 1:38:33.920 different approach and a different route, you know, And so 1:38:35.560 --> 1:38:39.280 I don't know, chicken or egg what came before then. 1:38:40.000 --> 1:38:43.080 But as we're going off on our own and doing 1:38:43.080 --> 1:38:47.280 our thing, and as the music industry is changing, we 1:38:47.320 --> 1:38:50.639 make a Moorica, which is not a commercial record by 1:38:50.680 --> 1:38:53.719 any means, you know, like and we weren't really trying 1:38:53.760 --> 1:38:56.200 to make a commercial record again, like we were just 1:38:56.680 --> 1:39:00.479 you know, we're always trying to push ourselves to write 1:39:00.520 --> 1:39:02.719 better songs, Chris and I are always trying to push 1:39:02.720 --> 1:39:08.080 ourselves to write better songs. And you know, another fifteen 1:39:08.160 --> 1:39:11.200 or eighteen month tour for Southern Harmony and I pick 1:39:11.280 --> 1:39:14.160 up a lot more tools than my tool belt, er 1:39:14.320 --> 1:39:19.200 language that I can use in my writing. Chris is 1:39:19.720 --> 1:39:22.400 you know, we're all pulling more life experience for us 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:27.320 to add to what we're writing about. But we wanted 1:39:27.360 --> 1:39:29.760 to make like a we wanted to make a very 1:39:29.920 --> 1:39:34.439 specific record, and we weren't. You know, it was a 1:39:34.520 --> 1:39:40.800 much more like our songwriting became more sophisticated, came more emotional, 1:39:41.160 --> 1:39:44.840 like deeper emotionally a heavier record, and Amorica is a 1:39:44.840 --> 1:39:48.800 heavy record, and there's not a lot of room for 1:39:50.960 --> 1:39:55.720 you know, there wasn't there wasn't much thought given to 1:39:55.760 --> 1:39:58.280 the choruses or these types of things. We were just 1:39:58.320 --> 1:40:00.439 making our record. We put our head down, just went 1:40:00.479 --> 1:40:01.559 through and made this album. 1:40:02.200 --> 1:40:02.360 You know. 1:40:03.280 --> 1:40:09.479 Oddly enough, Rick on that record took an interest, which 1:40:09.600 --> 1:40:11.920 was really the first time he took an interest, and 1:40:12.160 --> 1:40:14.840 was like, he came to us and said, Chris and Rich, 1:40:14.920 --> 1:40:18.360 I think Descending is could be the best song you 1:40:18.400 --> 1:40:22.600 guys have ever written. He said, the verse is absolutely gorgeous. 1:40:22.680 --> 1:40:26.839 The musical piece is gorgeous. It just it needs a chorus. 1:40:27.080 --> 1:40:29.840 And you know, he was like, I want to bring 1:40:29.920 --> 1:40:33.120 someone in. I want someone to you know, what tools 1:40:33.120 --> 1:40:35.040 can we give you to help you rewrite the chorus? 1:40:35.160 --> 1:40:38.840 And we were punk rock back then. We were like, 1:40:39.400 --> 1:40:42.960 you know, you know, this doesn't need a new chorus. 1:40:43.000 --> 1:40:44.800 This is how we wrote it. This is what it is. 1:40:44.840 --> 1:40:46.800 And he felt the same way about gone to the 1:40:46.840 --> 1:40:50.519 first song on the record and he was like, that 1:40:50.600 --> 1:40:52.519 just needs a chorus. It doesn't have one, you know, 1:40:52.920 --> 1:40:56.160 And in that sense he was correct, you know, I mean, 1:40:56.200 --> 1:40:59.280 from a commercial standpoint, he was correct. Those two songs 1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:03.599 could have benefited from big choruses. And in my opinion, 1:41:04.280 --> 1:41:09.400 Chris's verse, what he sings on the verse and Descending 1:41:09.880 --> 1:41:12.600 is one of the lyrically and melodically is one of 1:41:12.640 --> 1:41:14.639 the most beautiful things he's ever sung. 1:41:15.640 --> 1:41:18.080 How do you end up working with Wig and what's 1:41:18.120 --> 1:41:22.240 the difference between working with him and George? 1:41:22.720 --> 1:41:26.200 Well, Jack, you know. So we made one record one 1:41:26.280 --> 1:41:31.040 America and it was called Tall. And that's when this 1:41:31.080 --> 1:41:33.479 is when Chris and I were really at odds and 1:41:33.560 --> 1:41:38.599 there was a lot of you know, substances going around 1:41:38.640 --> 1:41:41.840 with Chris and not with me, but with Chris, and 1:41:41.920 --> 1:41:44.040 so there was then there was more ego, and there 1:41:44.120 --> 1:41:48.559 was more weird stuff happening, and so he decided he 1:41:48.600 --> 1:41:52.880 wanted to produce the record. I'm like, you're not producing me, Like, 1:41:53.000 --> 1:41:54.760 I know what the fuck I'm doing. I don't need 1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:59.719 you to produce me. And so we wound up making 1:41:59.840 --> 1:42:04.680 the first record. Chris met this guy who was an engineer, 1:42:07.160 --> 1:42:11.280 but I didn't, you know, And Chris conveyed everything he 1:42:11.400 --> 1:42:14.479 wanted from a record to this guy without asking what 1:42:14.560 --> 1:42:17.360 I wanted from the record, and I'm like, well, that's 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:21.040 not what I want, you know what I mean? And 1:42:21.120 --> 1:42:23.680 so it was just a dirge. It was like a 1:42:23.720 --> 1:42:26.519 fucking six or sex. It took seven months maybe in 1:42:26.600 --> 1:42:30.759 the studio, and it was and so we made this record, 1:42:30.840 --> 1:42:32.320 and at the end of it, we were just like, 1:42:32.360 --> 1:42:34.720 it's not very good. It's just not good. We don't 1:42:34.720 --> 1:42:37.719 I don't like it, you know. Even the other guys 1:42:37.760 --> 1:42:39.439 in the band were like, yeah, you know, I think 1:42:39.479 --> 1:42:42.280 it could have been better. Our manager was, you know, 1:42:42.520 --> 1:42:47.479 like yeah, I don't think this is it. And after that, 1:42:48.960 --> 1:42:51.719 Chris and I took some time. We got back together 1:42:51.760 --> 1:42:54.320 and we were like, well, let's make a studio album. 1:42:54.960 --> 1:43:00.000 I want something that sounds amazing in this in the sense, 1:43:00.320 --> 1:43:03.719 you know, something that is like that audio files would 1:43:03.720 --> 1:43:06.439 put on and listen and be like, man, this sounds 1:43:06.439 --> 1:43:09.679 fucking you know. The sounds can be their own sort 1:43:09.680 --> 1:43:14.040 of tapestry. And we felt really strongly about those two 1:43:14.120 --> 1:43:19.720 Jellyfish records, especially Spilt Milk the second one, because we 1:43:19.800 --> 1:43:22.200 love those guys they were our friends. But also those 1:43:22.200 --> 1:43:26.000 records sounded unbelievable. And it was Jack Quig who did 1:43:26.000 --> 1:43:29.120 that record, and so we reached out to him and 1:43:29.280 --> 1:43:31.280 he came in and we made we kind of went 1:43:31.360 --> 1:43:35.960 back in half or maybe seven out of however many 1:43:36.000 --> 1:43:41.160 songs is on America and I wrote some more songs 1:43:41.240 --> 1:43:45.160 and and then yeah, we went in and made a 1:43:45.160 --> 1:43:47.200 Moorica and it did. It was one of those things 1:43:47.240 --> 1:43:52.240 that sounds fucking stellar. It's an amazing sounding record. But again, 1:43:52.560 --> 1:43:57.280 you know, Descending Gone could have been something else if 1:43:57.280 --> 1:43:59.280 we had written, if we had focused on that, but 1:43:59.439 --> 1:44:01.160 we weren't the right place to do that. 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:05.040 How do you end up working with Jimmy Page. 1:44:07.280 --> 1:44:10.200 So America comes out, We do that, then we make 1:44:10.240 --> 1:44:14.960 Three Snakes, and Three Snakes is kind of more of 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:18.400 a of a pathway into We wanted to make like 1:44:18.600 --> 1:44:22.680 led Zeppelin three. The juxtaposition between like big drums and 1:44:22.720 --> 1:44:26.400 acoustic guitars, like the sound and the presentation of led 1:44:26.439 --> 1:44:29.679 Zeppelin three we loved. We're like, man, this is fucking great. 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:30.400 What if we do this? 1:44:30.479 --> 1:44:30.800 Do this? 1:44:31.120 --> 1:44:34.120 We made this record, but again, tickets, I mean, the 1:44:34.280 --> 1:44:41.280 album sales continued to kind of plateau, and you know, 1:44:41.920 --> 1:44:44.559 people at the label were getting up tight. Our manager 1:44:44.600 --> 1:44:47.360 was kind of getting up tight. So we're like, we 1:44:47.439 --> 1:44:50.760 need to make a rock and roll record and kind 1:44:50.760 --> 1:44:53.479 of get back to our roots and see how this works. 1:44:54.200 --> 1:44:58.640 So we hired Kevin Shirley, who had been working with Aerosmith. 1:44:59.360 --> 1:45:03.280 We sign our manager was able to pull us away 1:45:03.280 --> 1:45:07.040 from Rick and get us directly onto Columbia, and so 1:45:07.240 --> 1:45:09.439 Rick wouldn't really we wouldn't. We didn't like Rick, and 1:45:09.479 --> 1:45:11.920 we didn't We couldn't, you know, we wouldn't have to 1:45:11.960 --> 1:45:16.400 deal with Rick anymore. So we signed with Columbia, do 1:45:16.520 --> 1:45:20.960 this big thing, have a comeback and made this rock 1:45:21.000 --> 1:45:22.880 and roll record, which is a great It is a 1:45:22.920 --> 1:45:25.960 really good rock and roll record. There's choruses, it's exciting, 1:45:26.520 --> 1:45:29.800 sounds good. We do a bunch of shows, do a 1:45:29.800 --> 1:45:32.200 bunch of headline shows, and then we got a bunch 1:45:32.240 --> 1:45:34.880 of Aerosmith stadium shows in Europe because they would do 1:45:34.920 --> 1:45:41.519 stadiums in Europe. And in nineteen ninety we toured with 1:45:41.720 --> 1:45:44.400 Robert Plant. He was one of one of the bands 1:45:44.439 --> 1:45:48.439 we toured with in arenas and we loved Robert. Robert 1:45:48.560 --> 1:45:51.120 was always so cool to us. Couldn't have been cooler person. 1:45:52.439 --> 1:45:55.920 The next year on Southern Harmony, Robert was doing. We 1:45:55.920 --> 1:45:59.000 were doing festivals and Robert was opening for us, which 1:45:59.040 --> 1:46:00.800 was a little weird for us. I was like, wow, 1:46:00.880 --> 1:46:05.960 this is and I remember we were playing three nights 1:46:05.960 --> 1:46:09.479 at the Royal Albert Hall in London and Robert was like, 1:46:09.520 --> 1:46:12.000 can I bring Jimmy down? We're like, fuck yeah. Of course, 1:46:12.080 --> 1:46:15.240 you know, they were putting together Page Plant, and Robert 1:46:15.280 --> 1:46:17.760 wanted Jimmy to come, and we were excited to have 1:46:17.840 --> 1:46:19.800 him come. And it was Robert and Jimmy, Jimmy and 1:46:19.880 --> 1:46:23.599 Ron Wood was there too, and we met Jimmy and 1:46:23.680 --> 1:46:26.679 he couldn't have been cooler, and he loved the band 1:46:26.920 --> 1:46:28.719 like that. I think that was the first time he'd 1:46:28.760 --> 1:46:31.040 seen us, so he really loved the band. It was like, man, 1:46:31.040 --> 1:46:33.519 you guys are great. We hung out with him and 1:46:33.560 --> 1:46:36.120 he liked it so much and he was good. And 1:46:36.200 --> 1:46:39.840 Jimmy was close with our friend Ross Halfin, who's a photographer, 1:46:40.360 --> 1:46:42.679 and so we're like, well, Jimmy, were playing in Paris 1:46:42.720 --> 1:46:44.360 in two days, if you want to come, And so 1:46:44.479 --> 1:46:48.280 Jimmy came and him and Ross flew to Paris and 1:46:48.320 --> 1:46:51.479 we were up there and you know, Chris had a 1:46:51.479 --> 1:46:54.400 bunch of vinyl on the floor because we traveled with 1:46:54.479 --> 1:47:00.640 this massive stereo in our in our dressing room, and 1:47:01.240 --> 1:47:03.519 Chris went and bought a bunch of vinyl and they 1:47:03.520 --> 1:47:06.200 would fly home with the stereo. And so Jimmy was 1:47:06.240 --> 1:47:08.160 there looking through the virus like oh yeah, I love 1:47:08.200 --> 1:47:11.200 this and this, and we really hit it off, and 1:47:11.280 --> 1:47:13.600 so you know, we always kept in touch. And then 1:47:13.680 --> 1:47:16.320 the next year the next record we played, you know, 1:47:16.360 --> 1:47:18.280 the Albert Hall, and Jimmy came down again and we 1:47:18.360 --> 1:47:22.240 just really hit it off in that way, and we 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:25.759 had done some shows with Page Plant, so we did 1:47:26.560 --> 1:47:30.240 so the Amorica tour in the summer, we toured with 1:47:30.280 --> 1:47:33.640 the Stones and Page Plant at the same time. So 1:47:33.840 --> 1:47:37.880 in between playing with the Stones at we did three 1:47:37.960 --> 1:47:41.240 nights at Wembley Stadium. We broke off and would go 1:47:41.320 --> 1:47:43.559 do shows with the Page Plant in the UK and 1:47:43.600 --> 1:47:47.120 then come back the next night play with with the Stones. 1:47:47.120 --> 1:47:50.800 And it was like a magical, unbelievable summer of that. 1:47:52.439 --> 1:47:54.240 And so we just really headed off and it was 1:47:54.240 --> 1:47:57.519 always cool cut to by your side, by your side 1:47:57.520 --> 1:48:01.519 comes out we're doing these shows with Aerosmith. Jimmy was 1:48:01.680 --> 1:48:05.519 part of a he was part of a charity event 1:48:05.720 --> 1:48:09.280 that he I guess set up with his wife at 1:48:09.280 --> 1:48:14.040 the time, Hermione, who she was from Brazil and I 1:48:14.040 --> 1:48:17.320 think it was called the Brazilian Children's Fund and he 1:48:17.680 --> 1:48:20.639 did this thing every year at the Cafe de Perry 1:48:20.680 --> 1:48:24.639 in London, and so he wanted us to be his band. 1:48:25.560 --> 1:48:27.400 He's like, I want you guys, he goes, I've already 1:48:27.400 --> 1:48:29.200 done it with Robert and I've done it with these people, 1:48:29.240 --> 1:48:31.160 but I really want you to be my band. And 1:48:31.200 --> 1:48:33.840 so we were so flattered and like, man, we would 1:48:33.880 --> 1:48:36.640 love to first song we learned was like in My 1:48:36.720 --> 1:48:39.679 Time of Dying, which was amazing, and you know, Jimmy 1:48:39.760 --> 1:48:41.640 was like, what would you guys like to do? And 1:48:41.680 --> 1:48:44.280 we chose to do like ten Years Gone and you know, yeah, 1:48:44.360 --> 1:48:48.439 cool stuff, and so we were so excited and then 1:48:48.479 --> 1:48:50.880 we got we learned our parts in New York and 1:48:51.360 --> 1:48:54.519 got everything together and then we got together with him 1:48:54.560 --> 1:48:56.840 before the event at this place called No Me's and 1:48:56.880 --> 1:49:00.599 it was just something that was so it just felt right. 1:49:00.920 --> 1:49:02.800 You know. It's like when you play with someone that 1:49:02.960 --> 1:49:08.320 sound that is like, oh shit, you know, that just 1:49:08.400 --> 1:49:10.840 sounds like they've been in your band forever or you've 1:49:10.840 --> 1:49:13.240 been in their band forever, whatever it is. And it 1:49:13.360 --> 1:49:16.559 was so natural and so cool. And while we were 1:49:16.600 --> 1:49:20.880 doing it, our manager, actually Pete at the time, said 1:49:21.120 --> 1:49:24.200 we should do this, like let's you know, this would 1:49:24.240 --> 1:49:26.080 be cool to do. Let's do a couple of shows, 1:49:26.080 --> 1:49:28.000 and he approached Jimmy and Jimmy was like, man, I 1:49:28.040 --> 1:49:31.320 would love to do that, that's great, So he put 1:49:31.560 --> 1:49:34.240 you know, I think it was like three shows in 1:49:34.280 --> 1:49:37.519 New York, one show in Boston, wanted Detroit, and in 1:49:39.360 --> 1:49:41.720 to in La at the Greek, and so we just 1:49:41.800 --> 1:49:43.920 kind of booked these shows and said, let's see how 1:49:43.920 --> 1:49:47.840 it goes. And it was the most fun some of 1:49:47.880 --> 1:49:50.880 the coolest shit we've ever done, you know what I mean, 1:49:52.640 --> 1:49:54.800 Like all these people showed up in New York. The 1:49:54.880 --> 1:49:58.559 excitement was so palpable, like you could feel it in 1:49:58.640 --> 1:50:02.599 the dressing room. You know. We played the Roseland Ballroom 1:50:02.640 --> 1:50:04.720 three nights and it was like a small place. It's 1:50:04.760 --> 1:50:08.320 like four thousand seats and you think about those people 1:50:08.360 --> 1:50:10.360 getting in to see that thing, and what's it going 1:50:10.400 --> 1:50:13.080 to be like you just felt it. And Amed Urnaguet 1:50:13.200 --> 1:50:16.080 was there and all these people came out of the 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:20.320 out of the you know, the woodwork to see it. 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:22.920 It was something that was amazing. Joe Perry jam with 1:50:23.000 --> 1:50:26.559 us in Boston, you know, just such a fucking cool 1:50:26.640 --> 1:50:27.280 thing to do. 1:50:29.520 --> 1:50:34.599 Okay, in two thousand and one, you do the Brotherly 1:50:34.680 --> 1:50:39.280 Love Tour with Oasis and Black Crows. I saw it 1:50:39.280 --> 1:50:42.880 at the Greek. I think you guys closed I had 1:50:42.960 --> 1:50:47.439 seen Oasis at the Whiskey. Oasis were long in the 1:50:47.479 --> 1:50:51.200 tooth at that point in time. What did you think 1:50:51.280 --> 1:50:54.760 when Oasis came back last year and sold stadiums in 1:50:54.840 --> 1:50:56.400 America forgetting? 1:50:57.920 --> 1:51:02.559 I was shocked, Like, are you fucking kidding me? I mean, 1:51:02.600 --> 1:51:04.960 I was happy for them. I love those guys, you know, 1:51:06.120 --> 1:51:08.599 but I was like, I mean, because the last time 1:51:08.640 --> 1:51:11.559 I saw them in America before they split up, they 1:51:11.600 --> 1:51:15.519 were doing theaters, you know, they never got to that 1:51:15.640 --> 1:51:17.599 level in the States, and then all of a sudden, 1:51:17.600 --> 1:51:21.120 they're doing fucking stadiums in LA, Chicago and New York. 1:51:21.200 --> 1:51:24.559 I was I was like, oh my god, this is crazy. 1:51:24.680 --> 1:51:27.080 Chris saw a couple of the shows. I think I 1:51:27.080 --> 1:51:30.240 think he saw New York and maybe La or London. 1:51:30.240 --> 1:51:30.840 I can't remember. 1:51:39.040 --> 1:51:44.479 Okay, you and your brother get back together before COVID. 1:51:45.000 --> 1:51:48.320 There's a lot of excitement. There's a little bit of backlash. 1:51:48.320 --> 1:51:51.080 I'm gonna ask you for it. Some people say, hey, 1:51:51.160 --> 1:51:53.400 you did it for the money. What would you say 1:51:53.400 --> 1:51:53.760 to them? 1:51:55.600 --> 1:52:00.200 You know, I mean, everyone's gonna have their take, you 1:52:00.240 --> 1:52:04.479 know the fact that we didn't. You know, there's two 1:52:05.680 --> 1:52:07.360 a band. Being in a band is like being in 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:09.559 a marriage or being in a family. There's a family 1:52:09.680 --> 1:52:16.160 dynamic that surrounds every band, and our family band dynamic 1:52:16.320 --> 1:52:20.320 was fucking toxic, and it was toxic from the moment 1:52:20.400 --> 1:52:24.479 we started seeing success is when infighting started happening and 1:52:24.520 --> 1:52:27.519 all this shit. You know, our old drummer had said 1:52:27.680 --> 1:52:30.000 a couple of times, like the scariest thing to all 1:52:30.040 --> 1:52:31.599 of us in the band is when you and Chris 1:52:31.640 --> 1:52:34.200 get along, because we can't, you know, because there's no 1:52:34.320 --> 1:52:37.439 stopping and a lot of and there was a lot 1:52:37.479 --> 1:52:39.519 of that attitude there, and so there was a lot 1:52:39.560 --> 1:52:45.640 of there's a lot of push to keep Chris and 1:52:45.680 --> 1:52:49.479 I separate, to divide and conquer, to to push what 1:52:49.560 --> 1:52:53.680 I call little pettige power agendas that people wanted to 1:52:53.720 --> 1:52:56.559 push instead of looking at Chris and I getting along 1:52:56.640 --> 1:53:00.360 as something that's a positive for everyone. And so when 1:53:00.400 --> 1:53:02.680 we got back together, we talked about it. I mean, 1:53:02.720 --> 1:53:05.360 what most people don't understand is we got offered tours 1:53:05.439 --> 1:53:08.360 every year that we were broken up, you know what 1:53:08.439 --> 1:53:12.120 I mean, like there we could have toured anytime, but 1:53:12.280 --> 1:53:14.960 at this time and moment, we you know, Chris and 1:53:14.960 --> 1:53:17.040 I had been out on our own. We think it 1:53:17.080 --> 1:53:22.479 was eight or nine years apart, and we you know, 1:53:23.439 --> 1:53:27.680 decided that it was something that was important to us 1:53:27.680 --> 1:53:30.000 and the way the way we did it was going 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:33.880 to have to be a different way. And I'm like, 1:53:34.080 --> 1:53:36.760 I don't want to do this. If we're going to 1:53:36.880 --> 1:53:39.599 just start the same bullshit, if we're going to fight 1:53:40.240 --> 1:53:41.800 and it's going to be this and there's going to 1:53:41.840 --> 1:53:45.599 be you know, pettiness and people trying to divide us. 1:53:45.640 --> 1:53:47.040 I said, I'm not going to fucking do it. I 1:53:47.040 --> 1:53:49.439 don't want to do it. And he said the same thing, 1:53:49.479 --> 1:53:52.080 and I and we both agreed that like the only 1:53:52.120 --> 1:53:55.080 way to keep it positive is to bring in new people, 1:53:56.000 --> 1:53:58.720 is to bring in new band members and bring in 1:53:58.760 --> 1:54:02.520 new management and kindind of start over where it's established 1:54:02.560 --> 1:54:05.920 that we that this is where everything comes from, and 1:54:05.960 --> 1:54:08.800 we need to just get and for Christ andize relationship 1:54:08.880 --> 1:54:10.920 and for the relationship of the band and for the 1:54:11.120 --> 1:54:13.360 and for moving forward. This is how we need to 1:54:13.400 --> 1:54:15.679 do it. And so that's what we did. 1:54:16.520 --> 1:54:20.200 Before we get back to the Black Crows, I saw 1:54:20.240 --> 1:54:24.200 you as one of the guitarist with Howard Lease in 1:54:24.280 --> 1:54:29.360 what was called Bad Company Phenomenal Show, and you were great, 1:54:29.640 --> 1:54:32.040 But how do you end up playing in that situation. 1:54:35.280 --> 1:54:39.560 There was a couple of years ago there was a 1:54:39.680 --> 1:54:48.640 tribute to Jimmy Page from the Experience Hendricks Project and 1:54:49.400 --> 1:54:53.400 I had done. After the Crows split up, I was 1:54:53.440 --> 1:54:56.120 doing my solo stuff and I got asked to do 1:54:56.160 --> 1:54:59.600 this Jimmy Hendricks tour and it was it was something 1:54:59.640 --> 1:55:02.640 I'd never done. I'm like, oh, I've never done anything 1:55:02.680 --> 1:55:05.040 like that. I've always been in my own band. I've 1:55:05.040 --> 1:55:09.080 always been kind of safe and protected in my own band. 1:55:09.080 --> 1:55:11.440 So I was like, oh wow, trying to challenge myself. 1:55:12.080 --> 1:55:14.720 And so I went out and did that and everyone 1:55:14.800 --> 1:55:17.200 was so cool. Jamie, you couldn't have been cooler. And 1:55:17.240 --> 1:55:21.919 this guy, John McDermott, who runs or manages the Hendricks catalog, 1:55:23.560 --> 1:55:25.280 was out on that tour and he was one of 1:55:25.320 --> 1:55:28.160 the people that wanted me to be involved, and so 1:55:28.640 --> 1:55:30.800 he wound up helping me out, you know, because I 1:55:31.520 --> 1:55:33.840 had a manager and it wasn't panning out, and so 1:55:34.920 --> 1:55:37.480 I asked for his help and he was like, oh, yeah, 1:55:37.480 --> 1:55:39.360 I can help you out. So he helped put together 1:55:39.360 --> 1:55:41.680 a couple of things, and one of the things he 1:55:41.720 --> 1:55:44.080 put together was this tribute to Jimmy. I mean, that 1:55:44.120 --> 1:55:50.920 guy knows everyone, but Bad Company's manager asked him if 1:55:50.920 --> 1:55:53.600 I would play on a couple of things with Bad Company, 1:55:54.840 --> 1:55:59.160 and so I'm like four, because they were doing at 1:55:59.200 --> 1:56:04.240 this experience Hendrick's thing. They were doing what was the 1:56:04.280 --> 1:56:06.440 name of that band that he was in with Jimmy 1:56:07.280 --> 1:56:15.200 Radioactive and uh get Satisfaction Guaranteed the Firm. 1:56:16.000 --> 1:56:17.440 Those were the two best songs. 1:56:18.240 --> 1:56:21.520 Yeah, So I was like, yeah, sure, you know, I'll play. 1:56:21.520 --> 1:56:24.960 I don't care. That'd be cool, you know. And so 1:56:27.080 --> 1:56:30.280 I kind of flew there and played with them and 1:56:30.320 --> 1:56:32.720 it was cool, you know, and that was it. And 1:56:32.760 --> 1:56:35.400 then about maybe a couple of months later, they called 1:56:35.440 --> 1:56:39.600 me and said, Mick Rauss can't do the American leg 1:56:40.760 --> 1:56:42.640 and we were just they were just wondering if you'd 1:56:42.680 --> 1:56:45.640 be up for filling in for six weeks, and I said, yeah, 1:56:45.680 --> 1:56:48.200 of course, that would be amazing. I mean I love Free, 1:56:48.880 --> 1:56:53.960 I mean Free is an amazing band, and I love 1:56:54.080 --> 1:56:58.240 Simon and Andy Frasier, you know, and Paul's amazing, and 1:56:58.320 --> 1:57:00.200 so I was like fuck yeah, and I just I 1:57:00.280 --> 1:57:03.080 did it because I thought we'd play Free songs at soundcheck, 1:57:04.920 --> 1:57:08.560 you know. But but it was cool and I went 1:57:08.680 --> 1:57:12.720 and did it, and you know, Paul sounded amazing. Simon 1:57:12.840 --> 1:57:15.240 sounded great. It was a cool thing to do, and 1:57:15.280 --> 1:57:17.160 it was just six weeks and so I filled in 1:57:17.240 --> 1:57:19.600 for Mick and then he came back, and then I 1:57:19.640 --> 1:57:22.440 think is when he started having his you know, more 1:57:22.520 --> 1:57:23.440 medical issues. 1:57:23.760 --> 1:57:26.200 Did you play any free songs in soundcheck? 1:57:26.800 --> 1:57:31.000 Yeah, we did a little bit. You know, I think 1:57:31.520 --> 1:57:35.240 like Simon, because Howard was into it too. Howard love 1:57:35.320 --> 1:57:38.240 free and he you know, I think he played mister 1:57:38.320 --> 1:57:40.960 Big and you know Simon, but Paul wasn't having it. 1:57:41.160 --> 1:57:42.960 He's like that man never told over here. And I 1:57:43.040 --> 1:57:45.680 was like, all right, but I you know, I would 1:57:45.720 --> 1:57:48.080 have done like I'll be creeping or you know, ride 1:57:48.160 --> 1:57:50.240 on a pony or something. Would have been cool. 1:57:50.960 --> 1:57:56.160 Okay, So Black Groves gets back together, he amps up, 1:57:56.240 --> 1:58:03.400 COVID happens. Okay, the novelty of Black Crows being back 1:58:03.480 --> 1:58:07.400 together is over. It's been you know, seven years at 1:58:07.400 --> 1:58:12.360 this point in time. Okay, So how do you see 1:58:13.120 --> 1:58:18.280 Black Crows going forward in terms of, you know, what 1:58:18.320 --> 1:58:20.520 you want on of it? It's completely you talk about 1:58:20.520 --> 1:58:23.560 grunge coming in the early nineties, we're in an era 1:58:24.160 --> 1:58:28.000 where no one has dominance. The Rolling Stones put on 1:58:28.120 --> 1:58:31.000 a new album, it gets pressed very few people who 1:58:31.120 --> 1:58:35.200 actually listen to it. What's your vision going forward? 1:58:36.680 --> 1:58:39.280 I mean, you know, we love playing, we love being 1:58:39.320 --> 1:58:41.200 in the studio. We're going to do what we do, 1:58:41.440 --> 1:58:45.440 and you know, that's it's kind of what we've always done. 1:58:45.480 --> 1:58:49.360 We've always been We've always been outside what everyone else 1:58:49.400 --> 1:58:53.000 does in the industry. We've never been part of any 1:58:54.680 --> 1:58:58.280 any kind of movement. Like we were kind of our 1:58:58.320 --> 1:59:01.440 own movement for two years from ninety to ninety two, 1:59:01.960 --> 1:59:06.120 and then something else came, but we still existed consistently 1:59:06.200 --> 1:59:10.680 throughout the world unto ourselves. And so I think we're 1:59:11.160 --> 1:59:13.320 you know, just keep going as long as it's fun 1:59:13.360 --> 1:59:15.560 and as long as we feel happy about what we're doing. 1:59:15.640 --> 1:59:17.720 And you know, that's pretty much it. 1:59:18.000 --> 1:59:22.120 Do you care about the size of the audience, size 1:59:22.160 --> 1:59:23.320 of the buildings you play in? 1:59:25.520 --> 1:59:28.000 You know, we're selling more tickets still to this day 1:59:28.040 --> 1:59:30.680 than we ever did, you know, I mean consistently, we're 1:59:30.720 --> 1:59:33.720 still selling a lot of tickets. We're still selling big 1:59:33.840 --> 1:59:39.680 So I mean, it's it's cool. I mean, it's nice 1:59:39.680 --> 1:59:42.800 to have people come see you. I mean, it feels 1:59:42.800 --> 1:59:44.560 great when people come see you and they like what 1:59:44.600 --> 1:59:45.040 you're doing. 1:59:47.000 --> 1:59:51.000 Okay, the album comes out, it's a completely different era 1:59:51.200 --> 1:59:56.920 from nineteen ninety. Hey, do you care about reviews? Do 1:59:57.000 --> 2:00:00.000 you care about the number of streams? And how much 2:00:00.000 --> 2:00:02.120 what of this will people see in the new sets? 2:00:06.240 --> 2:00:10.800 Again, it's one of those things you make music because 2:00:10.800 --> 2:00:13.080 you want people to like it and you want people 2:00:13.080 --> 2:00:18.520 to stream it. But if they don't, then that's cool too, 2:00:19.000 --> 2:00:20.760 you know what I mean. Like it is what it is. 2:00:21.000 --> 2:00:22.840 At the end of the day, They're going to like 2:00:22.880 --> 2:00:25.840 what they like or not like what they like. As 2:00:25.880 --> 2:00:29.640 far as as like how many songs, we'll probably play 2:00:29.640 --> 2:00:33.000 two or three songs a night, new songs from this record, 2:00:33.040 --> 2:00:36.120 maybe a song from the last from Happiness Bastards, and 2:00:36.160 --> 2:00:40.600 then a bunch of stuff from our old records, stuff 2:00:40.640 --> 2:00:44.600 that from unreleased albums and covers and you know, so 2:00:44.640 --> 2:00:47.080 we still change it up a bit, and we still 2:00:47.560 --> 2:00:49.560 you know, change the set list every night. We still 2:00:49.600 --> 2:00:52.840 add new songs in and make it dynamic, and that 2:00:52.960 --> 2:00:54.680 makes it more interesting for us. 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:57.400 Okay, there were some other things you've done that have 2:00:57.520 --> 2:00:59.480 not been common. You've done it. You did a tour 2:00:59.520 --> 2:01:02.880 that was another under play. You've also played nights where 2:01:02.880 --> 2:01:07.760 you've played for a long time. You know, mixing it 2:01:07.840 --> 2:01:10.960 up is one thing, but left to your own devices, 2:01:11.680 --> 2:01:12.760 how do you like to do it? 2:01:19.600 --> 2:01:21.440 You know, left to our own device. I don't know. 2:01:21.480 --> 2:01:25.920 We're always kind of on our own devices. But I think, 2:01:27.880 --> 2:01:31.280 you know, I like changing songs every night. I like 2:01:31.480 --> 2:01:36.400 playing where we play. I like I still like getting 2:01:36.440 --> 2:01:42.480 on stage and having that band move like an engine, 2:01:42.520 --> 2:01:45.720 Like everyone is moving and everyone is It's you know, 2:01:45.800 --> 2:01:48.040 some people have likened it to like esp but we 2:01:48.120 --> 2:01:50.280 all know where we're going. We're all writing. It's like 2:01:50.360 --> 2:01:53.960 riding away. It's like everyone's writing this way. And that's 2:01:54.000 --> 2:01:57.000 the magic when it hits and everyone's doing this thing, 2:01:57.040 --> 2:01:59.000 and it's kind of and it can fall off the 2:01:59.080 --> 2:02:01.320 rails at any time, and that's what makes it exciting 2:02:01.400 --> 2:02:06.040 to me. You know, that's you know, I think being 2:02:06.120 --> 2:02:10.000 older it made us realize that, you know, there are 2:02:10.040 --> 2:02:12.160 people that want to hear she talks to Angels are 2:02:12.160 --> 2:02:15.520 hard to handle our remedy every night, you know, so 2:02:15.560 --> 2:02:17.280 we try to do that. You know, we try to 2:02:17.280 --> 2:02:21.360 play those recognizable songs every night, but then we also 2:02:21.480 --> 2:02:24.200 will add some cool, rare stuff, and we'll add some covers, 2:02:24.240 --> 2:02:26.160 and we'll add these other things. So I kind of 2:02:26.160 --> 2:02:28.080 feel like we have more of a balance now than 2:02:28.080 --> 2:02:28.560 we used to. 2:02:30.040 --> 2:02:33.720 Now. When you broke it was the tail end of 2:02:33.840 --> 2:02:39.560 the MTV rock era, but MTV was still extremely powerful 2:02:39.640 --> 2:02:42.160 hip hop for his grunge. Then hip hop starts to 2:02:42.200 --> 2:02:46.839 take over. Then it was like a floating party, a club. 2:02:46.960 --> 2:02:48.800 I mean, you could even be simple about it, say 2:02:48.840 --> 2:02:53.120 it's Sunset Strip, it's the Rainbow, etc. We live in 2:02:53.160 --> 2:02:57.400 an era where everybody can connect via the Internet, but 2:02:57.520 --> 2:03:01.520 you could live anywhere this point in time, is your 2:03:01.680 --> 2:03:06.640 life primarily your family in the Black Rows? Or to 2:03:06.760 --> 2:03:11.120 what degree are you hearing from other people? I'm more looking, 2:03:11.240 --> 2:03:13.280 you know, what are you hearing? And how is it 2:03:13.360 --> 2:03:17.120 different today as opposed to yesterday? And what do you 2:03:17.160 --> 2:03:21.720 think caused that? Just the Internet or age? 2:03:22.280 --> 2:03:25.480 Yeah? For me, I mean, you know, my family is 2:03:26.400 --> 2:03:28.560 where I spend most of my time when I'm away 2:03:28.600 --> 2:03:31.240 from the Crows, because this is because I'm gone a lot, 2:03:31.360 --> 2:03:34.800 and so this is where I want to be. And 2:03:34.920 --> 2:03:38.640 but I do you know, we do experience things. We 2:03:38.720 --> 2:03:45.240 go out and see bands and you know, see it 2:03:45.280 --> 2:03:48.200 and do other things as well as far as what 2:03:48.560 --> 2:03:51.600 the world is now versus what it used to be. 2:03:52.640 --> 2:03:55.520 It's it's I I mean, it's kind of bizarre now. 2:03:55.760 --> 2:04:03.360 I mean, there's a you know, back then, there was 2:04:04.480 --> 2:04:08.000 a two formats that you could get your music out, 2:04:08.200 --> 2:04:13.760 you know, radio and MTV, and it was pretty focused 2:04:14.360 --> 2:04:17.000 and you knew that if you went out and toured 2:04:17.040 --> 2:04:19.560 and you worked hard, you could pretty much get somewhere 2:04:19.600 --> 2:04:24.320 if you worked at it for a while. You know, Now, man, 2:04:24.360 --> 2:04:29.160 there's streaming, there's social media. You know, my son tells 2:04:29.200 --> 2:04:33.240 me that everyone expects them to bring fans in and 2:04:33.280 --> 2:04:36.160 that everyone expects that. So like that, you know, you 2:04:36.240 --> 2:04:38.320 have to have x amount of social media people in 2:04:38.400 --> 2:04:40.720 order to get booked or this or that or streamed 2:04:40.760 --> 2:04:46.360 all this bullshit, and it just seems it seems bizarre 2:04:46.400 --> 2:04:49.080 to me. As far as being in a band, it's 2:04:49.120 --> 2:04:52.480 got to be really difficult because we grew up in 2:04:52.520 --> 2:04:55.800 a totally different time. And then you have a bunch 2:04:55.840 --> 2:04:59.720 of people now, the youth, they don't drink, they don't 2:04:59.760 --> 2:05:01.360 want to go out, they want to sit at home 2:05:01.400 --> 2:05:05.160 and watch Netflix or you know, do whatever they do 2:05:05.640 --> 2:05:09.520 on their phones or computers or whatever. And so you're 2:05:09.560 --> 2:05:13.560 competing with reality and with a virtual world, which is 2:05:13.680 --> 2:05:19.160 really intense and kind of anti humans. It just seems 2:05:19.320 --> 2:05:23.040 it seems the opposite of having human relations. And I 2:05:23.080 --> 2:05:25.160 think maybe that's why the youth is having such a 2:05:25.160 --> 2:05:28.440 hard time. Maybe that's why they have such anxiety. Maybe 2:05:28.480 --> 2:05:33.120 because they weren't kind of forced to go out and 2:05:33.160 --> 2:05:35.960 forge their way into the world and deal with failure 2:05:36.120 --> 2:05:39.000 and deal with rejection and be okay with it and 2:05:39.040 --> 2:05:41.800 try it again and try it again. You know, it's 2:05:41.800 --> 2:05:46.200 a different way of looking at it. And I think that, 2:05:47.960 --> 2:05:52.000 you know, I think that that's I mean, that's a shame. 2:05:52.080 --> 2:05:54.800 I think there's a lot of there's a lot of 2:05:55.080 --> 2:05:59.840 missing out on humanity right now, and what it means 2:05:59.840 --> 2:06:02.839 to be human, or what it means to relate to humans, 2:06:02.840 --> 2:06:07.920 and what it means to hear things that aren't perfection 2:06:08.400 --> 2:06:13.720 or what is seems to be a perceived perfection. You know, music, 2:06:15.200 --> 2:06:17.920 when you play it, when you write it, you know, 2:06:18.040 --> 2:06:20.320 you get excited when a chorus is coming, you speed 2:06:20.400 --> 2:06:23.400 up a little bit, then you kind of slow down. 2:06:23.440 --> 2:06:26.600 When the verse comes, you reset. You know, there's a bridge, 2:06:26.600 --> 2:06:29.080 you lean into it, you kind of reset after this, 2:06:29.240 --> 2:06:33.840 depending on how it is. There's humans tend to you know, 2:06:34.440 --> 2:06:37.680 the key is relative, a key of a song is relative. 2:06:38.920 --> 2:06:41.280 Some people sing slightly flat, but it's part of the 2:06:41.360 --> 2:06:44.640 charm of their voice. Some people sing a little sharp, 2:06:44.640 --> 2:06:46.840 but it's part could be the part of a charm 2:06:46.880 --> 2:06:49.960 of their voice. But what we've done with these tools 2:06:50.040 --> 2:06:54.040 is we've eradicated the human element of making music. So 2:06:54.760 --> 2:06:58.000 John Paul, you know John Bonham's you know, squeaky kick 2:06:58.040 --> 2:07:01.760 drum sound and you know, since I've been loving you 2:07:02.200 --> 2:07:06.800 would be extracted by AI because it's not part of 2:07:06.840 --> 2:07:10.680 the song. The bleed of a horn part into a 2:07:10.800 --> 2:07:14.560 drums would be extracted because it's not part of the song. 2:07:14.720 --> 2:07:17.840 Or you know, everyone puts this music in a grid 2:07:17.880 --> 2:07:19.640 and it has to be perfectly in time, and the 2:07:19.720 --> 2:07:22.440 AI fixes it and all this shit, and at the 2:07:22.520 --> 2:07:24.840 end of the day, it's like, man, that's that's what 2:07:24.960 --> 2:07:28.880 music is. That's the magic. The human element of it 2:07:28.960 --> 2:07:33.560 is the magic. That's the uniqueness of it. You know, 2:07:33.680 --> 2:07:39.560 there's this song on Southern Harmony and Musical Companion one 2:07:39.640 --> 2:07:43.440 of our records called sometimes Salvation and at the end 2:07:44.320 --> 2:07:47.280 there's a circular chorus that keeps going around. And one time, 2:07:48.040 --> 2:07:50.240 because Steve and I recorded it in the room and 2:07:50.280 --> 2:07:53.040 I'm looking at him and we add a beat to it, 2:07:53.920 --> 2:07:57.760 and then just by accident, but we were both together, 2:07:58.520 --> 2:08:02.000 so we both do this thing, and you would look 2:08:02.040 --> 2:08:04.440 at it and it's different. It's never been played that 2:08:04.480 --> 2:08:07.280 way ever. Again, that's the one time it's been played 2:08:07.320 --> 2:08:10.680 that way. But it sounds fucking great. We didn't try 2:08:10.720 --> 2:08:12.600 to recreate it because we thought it would be a 2:08:12.600 --> 2:08:15.240 little hokey to recreate it. But that's a piece of 2:08:15.240 --> 2:08:18.120 magic that was caught in that moment, and that's what 2:08:18.280 --> 2:08:22.160 makes that magical. And when you suck all of that 2:08:22.320 --> 2:08:24.400 out and you take all the humanity out, and you 2:08:24.440 --> 2:08:27.560 take the breath of humanity out of music, the music 2:08:27.600 --> 2:08:30.200 that speeds up or slows down or does this or 2:08:30.200 --> 2:08:32.960 does that, that's when it gets really kind of weird 2:08:32.960 --> 2:08:34.760 and you start to look at this thing and you're like, 2:08:34.800 --> 2:08:38.320 what are we doing? You know, what the human ears 2:08:38.360 --> 2:08:41.360 meant to hear is the ear and the heart, Like 2:08:41.400 --> 2:08:43.320 the music needs to hit you in the heart and 2:08:43.360 --> 2:08:45.320 you need to be able to feel something from it. 2:08:46.160 --> 2:08:50.680 And so you know, that's where a lot of this. 2:08:51.520 --> 2:08:55.640 I do think technology in particular kind of took over 2:08:56.600 --> 2:09:00.600 and has deadened the senses of what music as it can. 2:09:00.520 --> 2:09:04.680 Be finally you grew up there. You haven't spent all 2:09:04.680 --> 2:09:08.600 your life there since. But what is different about Atlanta 2:09:09.560 --> 2:09:12.880 as opposed to New York in LA What is different 2:09:12.920 --> 2:09:13.880 about the South? 2:09:15.960 --> 2:09:19.720 The South, you know, we grew up and by osmosis 2:09:20.720 --> 2:09:23.640 we were I mean, you know, the South is a 2:09:23.680 --> 2:09:29.040 fascinating place, and it's a sensual place. The food is sensual, 2:09:29.200 --> 2:09:33.120 the sounds are sensual. The weather, I mean, shit, you know, 2:09:33.200 --> 2:09:35.720 in the summer it's fucking hot. It's this, it's that 2:09:36.200 --> 2:09:40.160 you have seasons. But there's a culture in the South 2:09:40.360 --> 2:09:43.320 that doesn't exist anywhere else in America. There's I don't 2:09:43.320 --> 2:09:46.160 think there's really anywhere in America that has a specific 2:09:46.240 --> 2:09:50.080 culture that that's like that the South does. And the 2:09:50.120 --> 2:09:54.280 South culture is an amalgamation of all these different sort 2:09:54.320 --> 2:09:56.760 of cultures that came together and created this whole thing 2:09:57.280 --> 2:10:00.400 from New Orleans to Atlanta to the Appalachian Mountains and 2:10:00.440 --> 2:10:03.240 everything kind of came And if you think about Southern 2:10:03.240 --> 2:10:07.400 writers and Southern musicians and Southern painters and Southern filmmakers 2:10:07.400 --> 2:10:09.920 and Southern and all of these things, there's a very 2:10:09.960 --> 2:10:13.320 specific thread that kind of goes through it that makes 2:10:13.360 --> 2:10:19.920 you feel a part of something something different, And there's 2:10:19.920 --> 2:10:22.360 also a lot of shame down there, I mean from 2:10:22.400 --> 2:10:25.640 the past. I mean, it's there's a there's a whole 2:10:26.440 --> 2:10:31.240 paradoxical existence in the South. That's but it's amazing, you know, 2:10:31.320 --> 2:10:35.360 you have all these elements and so you know, I mean, 2:10:35.360 --> 2:10:38.120 if you think about it coming from it, even from Georgia, 2:10:38.200 --> 2:10:41.120 you have Grand Parsons, you have ram, you have Little Richard, 2:10:41.200 --> 2:10:45.520 you have Hotus Reading, you have you know, you have 2:10:45.680 --> 2:10:48.800 the Almond Brothers. You know, you have the B fifty two's, 2:10:49.080 --> 2:10:51.640 you know, you have bands like us, you have you know, 2:10:51.800 --> 2:10:54.640 all of this music that comes from this one place, 2:10:55.080 --> 2:10:58.320 you know, and then you expand that out into Alabama 2:10:58.320 --> 2:11:03.240 and Mississippi and Louisiana and all the different types of 2:11:03.360 --> 2:11:06.280 music and the type and just the rich tapestry of 2:11:06.320 --> 2:11:10.880 all of this. Uh, you know, creativity that comes from 2:11:10.880 --> 2:11:13.920 that place, and it's in the soil and it's in 2:11:14.080 --> 2:11:18.120 the energy of the place. Uh. And it's just you know, 2:11:18.240 --> 2:11:20.760 there's there's some but it's getting lost too, you know, 2:11:21.640 --> 2:11:26.160 like it's it's it's kind of leveling out and changing 2:11:26.360 --> 2:11:29.120 as well. But when we grew up there, at the 2:11:29.160 --> 2:11:33.280 time we grew up that was palpable. You know, Rim 2:11:33.400 --> 2:11:35.560 was just as much of a Southern band to me 2:11:35.840 --> 2:11:39.120 as Skinnrid was, or you know, the Almond brothers or 2:11:39.160 --> 2:11:41.320 whoever it may be that, but their vision of the 2:11:41.360 --> 2:11:44.400 South was different. It was there was something really beautiful 2:11:44.440 --> 2:11:47.360 about it, there was something tender about it, and there 2:11:47.400 --> 2:11:50.640 was something incredibly artistic about it, but it was no 2:11:50.800 --> 2:11:51.920 less southern. You know. 2:11:53.560 --> 2:11:57.280 Well, it's been amazing talking to you, Rich, because this 2:11:57.320 --> 2:11:59.760 is gonna come out in a way that's going to 2:11:59.800 --> 2:12:02.120 sound I'm like judgment, but I'm bringing up. Your brother 2:12:02.240 --> 2:12:06.560 tends to eat up all the year, and therefore you 2:12:06.600 --> 2:12:09.760 don't get to talk that much, which gives one the 2:12:09.800 --> 2:12:13.840 impression that you're shy and you don't talk that much. 2:12:14.640 --> 2:12:17.920 But you can talk and you're you're a very sharp guy. 2:12:18.280 --> 2:12:21.080 I mean, listen some of the records you know, no More, 2:12:21.160 --> 2:12:23.400 No More, ten years gone, and all these others. I 2:12:23.440 --> 2:12:25.920 can talk to you for days. There's so much other stuff, 2:12:26.400 --> 2:12:30.040 but we're gonna stop it here for now. Rich. I 2:12:30.080 --> 2:12:32.240 want to thank you so much for taking this time 2:12:32.280 --> 2:12:33.120 with my audience. 2:12:34.000 --> 2:12:35.800 Of course, thank you so much for having me on. 2:12:35.920 --> 2:12:37.000 It was great talking to him. 2:12:37.560 --> 2:13:01.520 You bet till next time. This is Bob left six