WEBVTT - Ben Rector 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.680 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.000 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Dog, 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.440 but enough about me. My guest today is a Nashville 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.400 based singer, songwriter, multi instrumentalist, and all around good dude. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.680 You've likely experienced his seemingly boundless positivity on albums like 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.239 The Walking in Between and Brand New. Like so many 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.680 of us during the pandemic, he turned to music for 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.360 soulless In the process, he rediscovered the healing and even 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.800 somewhat mystical properties of song. Now, unlike so many of us, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:39.080 he channeled this rekindled passion into a multimedia extravaganza, appropriately 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.440 called The Joy of Music. This ambitious project and compasses 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.920 an album, a multipart short film, and an elaborate tour. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.720 For help, He's enlisted a truly mind bending array of talent, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.800 branching from Kenny G and Snoop Dogg to Taylor Goldsmith 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.160 of the folk rock band DAWs, the One Voice Children's Choir, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.320 and even the talented folks at the Jim Henson Creature Shop. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.119 The album's due out March eleven, but he's already dropped 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.280 the first three songs or chapters as he thinks of them, 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.000 all are imbued with his infectious optimism. Dream on, the 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.080 opening track, urges listeners to reconnect with their childhood ambitions 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.479 and offers a welcome reminder that it's never too late 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.479 to live your dreams. Supernatural, which features Grammy Award winning 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.120 jazz icon Dave Cause, is an exuberant meditation on the 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:29.039 magic and mysteries of music. Then there's Living My Best Life, 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.479 a surprising title for a song written in the midst 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.479 of global lockdown, but it's thankfulness is sincere. In fact, 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.480 it's a necessary lesson in gratitude for even small things 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:43.920 like sunrises, family, and yes, even ottomans. I'm so happy 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.880 to welcome the truly delightful Ben Rector. I hope you 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:56.200 enjoy our conversation. I mean, your latest album is called 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.160 The Joy of Music. Now, this isn't just an album. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.880 This is a whole, a whole extravagans, the whole production. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.800 We've got a record, a short film, and hopefully a 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.680 tour on the horizon. Hugely ambitious. How did this all 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.840 come together? You know? Um, it's the first time that 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.640 instead of kind of doing a lot of things at once, 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.360 I was really just being creative because like as stuff 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.160 as you know, moved forward, there hasn't been a time 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.799 where I was ever truly off. Even in seasons where 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.560 I wasn't like quote unquote on tour, I was still 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.840 doing one offs and that kind of stuff. And so, uh, 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.840 when the pandemic happened, my wife and I also had 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.280 twin boys a year and a half ago, which is 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.519 just a total cluster. It's it is insanity. So I 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:41.720 mean we were we were like full on like not 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.919 doing anything, and so I had, for the first time 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.799 had the ability to just like really focus on creativity 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:50.920 with no agenda. It wasn't like I gotta get this 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.200 done because the tour is coming up. And so what 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.560 ended up happening was I kind of got to return 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.240 to why I started making music in the first place, 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.600 and like that kind kept growing on itself and then 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.320 looked up and there's like we're doing a short film 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.880 and you know, all of that kind of stuff. So 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:08.800 it really, man, it was just like for the first 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.239 time I got to be a kid again with no expectations. 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.640 And I was also like, man, like this is my 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.600 like one wild and precious life. Was just like do 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.360 something crazy and fun because it's been I've done it 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.560 for a long time professionally and be easy to lose 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.040 a little bit of that like kind of spark, and 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.440 then also honestly to be afraid of failing, because like, 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:29.239 once the ball is rolling, you're like, I could mess 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.760 this up, Like this could go poorly. I could look stupid. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:33.280 So I was just like, I don't want to look 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.240 back when I'm sixty and be like, oh, I was 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:36.960 real nervous, but I I did induced if I was like, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.760 we're making the movie, We're doing all this stuff, why 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.680 not you know what I mean? Oh, totally right on. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.480 I mean, I'm so interested in in the film component. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:47.760 I went to film school myself in addition to being 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.080 a huge music fan. So the intersection of those two 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.280 things is really interesting to me. Did the music dictate 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.160 kind of where the narrative would go or was there 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.560 a story you wanted to tell and just using music 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.520 to help the narrative along. That's a great question. Um 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.200 it really everything kind of like congealed together and grew together. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.760 Nothing was really like this is what everything's going to 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.440 be about, and I kind of found the common thread 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.080 and the songs I was writing of joy. But I 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.119 wasn't like and I'm gonna make like a giant red 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.760 character and make a movie about it. It was just 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.039 kind of like I think one of the earlier songs 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.760 in this batch of songs called Supernatural, which is like 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.200 kind of like fun like saxophone, it's kind of crazy, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.360 and I was like, dude, I should totally dance to 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:33.599 this song, which I am terrified of, like mortified. I 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.159 don't like dancing at weddings. I'm just like that's not 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.839 my thing. And so because I was like, I I 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.880 need a function at weddings that's not on the dance floor. Okay, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.520 I'm gonna get behind this thing, Okay totally. And so 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.919 but I just like deep inside, I was like, the 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.039 music video for this has to be dancing, Like it 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:51.800 just has to be because there's no other way to 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.320 do it. And I think like that kind of like 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.240 started the ball rolling and I kind of springboarded off 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:58.960 of those ideas, and the idea just kind of grew, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.200 and like you know, as anything creative goes, you start 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.919 sort of like building a contraption. Then you kind of 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.200 like build another room to it and a backdoor into 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.720 it and whatever. It really was all together. It wasn't 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.240 like everything is this narrative. And as as as things 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.239 got more honed in, uh, you know, it became clear 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.279 what it was going to be. Oh, it's so cool. 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.000 I mean, I well, first of all, I do also 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.400 want to say, you know, when it's very apparent when 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.159 you look at me that I don't want to dance, 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.760 that did not come across looking at you. So I 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.040 just it just from from one non dancer to another. 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.039 I want to say, it looked great, but I appreciate 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.000 that I was. It's embarrassing how hard I tried. I like, 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.599 I worked really hard to look that average. I really did. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.760 Average is what we shoot for. Like, I totally get that. 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.120 Oh man, I mean so you mentioned the red character. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.400 I mean you got to work with my understanding at 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.440 least a group of really heroes of mine. The Gym 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.360 Henson Creature Shop. What was that like? So? Uh, it 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.360 was totally insane. And this is I mean, like so 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.480 much of the last year of my life has been 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.480 this where I'm just like, what if we asked X, 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.599 y Z person or group to be a part of 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.880 this and people kept saying yes, which is incredible. So 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.560 I kind of started thinking it would be cool to 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.640 have kind of like a almost a mascot, like a 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.839 lovable giant character to embody Joy, which is what the 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.720 record is about. And um, obviously Henson Creature Shop is 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.159 the best in the world at making that stuff. Talk 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.400 to them and I was like, man, I don't know 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.320 if we can really pull this off. It's you know, 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.840 the lead times intense, it's pretty expensive. Talk to some 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.680 other people, learned a lot about building mascots and realized 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.599 that Henson was the only group that could do it. Um, 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.280 And what actually happened is crazy. And you know, I 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.719 don't know if you'll pick up what I'm putting down here, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.200 but basically, the whole deal with Joy is that Joy 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.320 is like a real thing. It's like nobody made it. 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.720 And so what really happened with Henson was, uh, we 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.120 start making it. I did some sketches, their guy did sketches. 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.200 They start building this huge traption and then we look 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.159 up towards the end and they're like, this is gonna 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.160 be too hard to do. But you know what's really crazy, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.640 there's a guy that looks just like this and he 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.040 lives in Nashville. You should just give him a call. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.520 His name is Joy, and I was like, that's insane. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.080 I wish you just told me that upfront, and so 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.880 end up calling Joy. He lived in Murphy's borrow and 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.320 now he's in the videos. But Henson did help me 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.080 kind of cast cast Joy. If you will, you know 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.720 what I mean, I I do know what you mean. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.360 There is I don't know if winks really translate in 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.040 the audio, but yeah, hopefully to folks listening right there, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.240 I think I think they'll get it, you know, yeah, yeah, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.920 I mean it looks so good. I know you recently 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.280 had sort of a combo listening party and premiere for 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.000 the record in the film at the at the Franklin 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.000 Theater in Tennessee. What was the response there to that? Man? 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:53.400 It was it was just like such an enjoyable experience. Um, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.120 and it has felt crazy to me that I've been 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.400 sitting on you know, if anybody listening is like, I 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.360 know who you are, which is totally fine. This is 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:02.840 all pretty out of the box for me. And so 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.280 I've been sitting on all of this for like, you know, 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.040 almost a year, feeling just like I can't believe we're 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.200 doing this. And so to get to share it and 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.160 it's like full form with people and just get to 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.720 watch them experience It was just like such a pleasure 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.320 for me. And usually, like if I'm playing a show, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.200 I enjoy it, but it's pretty intense, like I'm like 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:23.960 really in it, trying not to mess up. I'm pretty 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.840 aware of like a lot of stuff. And this was 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:28.880 so fun just to get to watch people see it 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.800 and like other people will have that experience at some point. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.040 But with what social media is, what with with what 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.640 streaming is, we can't just dump, you know, a thirty 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.600 minute short film onto Instagram. That's just not gonna work. 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.679 You kind of have to like meter it out. So 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.160 it was really special for me knowing that like we 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.080 weren't gonna get to experience it like that again for 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:47.720 a while, and to get to like watch it in 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.160 a movie theater and listen to the record, it was 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.120 just like so incredible, and it was like I felt 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.760 like the everything coming to fruition, all these crazy ideas 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.120 I'd had to the past year to get to like 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.240 watch people experience it was really special. Oh that's got 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.040 to be a peak moment. I mean it was speaking 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.800 of of doing these things live and what's the live 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.040 component kind of look like I'm almost picturing like those 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.760 big review shows like Joe Cocker and Mad Dogs and 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.640 Englishman or the Icon Tina Turner Reviewer or something like that, 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.960 How's it gonna go? Totally so, and it's it's a 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.000 little bit of a bummer because like what I really 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.240 wanted to do was totally um blend the aesthetic of 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.439 the short film, which a lot of it is shot 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.480 in this like large psych space like a it looks 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.959 like an infinity wall. It's like curved white walls where 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.079 it looks like you're in space. And if we were 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.400 in theaters this time, it would be easy because we 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:35.960 would just take like a huge backdrop that's white and 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.079 curve at the stage. But we're playing a lot of 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.320 outdoor venues and you can't do that because the wind 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.840 it'll blow back and forth. And so I kind of emmbracing. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:45.880 Like one of the early models I had for some 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.880 of the aesthetics of the record was like visually was 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.280 like Lawrence Welk Show or whatever, kind of like the 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.600 old kind of funny whatever. And so we started we 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.000 started working on like the lighting designs and stuff, and 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.160 I think it will just be like a big classic 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.400 show we're not going to bring out For a second, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.000 it was like, are we gonna do video wall? And 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.559 I feel like every tour that's going out right now 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.679 has video wall, And then the real deal is like 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.040 you have to make so much content to use it correctly. 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:12.839 And I was just like, I just want to put 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.640 on a great show and not have it just be 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:19.080 like watch this movie again. Um. So basically it'll be 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.120 like pretty classic concert lighting. We'll have a couple of 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.520 cool tricks, Like we're gonna make you know that thing 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.560 in New York. It's like people kind of hate it. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:31.959 It's uh would love. It's like the red letters um utu. 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:36.520 We're making like essentially the the font and like logo 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.320 of the album into a giant red sign and it'll 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.320 like pop up behind us. So it'll be like a 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:46.000 big like physical thing. Oh cool. Yeah, Oh man, that's 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.360 all I mean. I'm thinking about. You see the what 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:49.920 was it called the Summer of Soul. I think it 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.800 was that concert that was up in Harlem in that Yeah, 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.559 that great like kind of rainbowie backdrop and everything. Yea 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.560 of all this classic classic performance backdrops and stuff. It's 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.080 it's so cool, and it's such a it's like such 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.000 a specific like character and vibe you can kind of 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.240 like tap into. That's always been important to me is 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.080 to like I feel like when something feels familiar, it's 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.280 like sort of like sneaks around the gate keeper of 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.320 like what you're You're like, oh, I know this, you 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.000 know what I mean. It's just like your childhood. Yeah, totally, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:37.680 and I love that feeling. So Earlier this month, in January, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.200 you you released I think three singles all at once. 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.680 I think they were the first three tracks of the album. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.599 What made you choose those three? Were they sort of 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.439 like the first three chapters in a book? Yeah, so basically, 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.880 And it's so funny. Man. I feel like in the 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.280 past year two years, it just feels like nobody knows 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.240 how to release music anymore. There's people surprise dropping albums, 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.480 there's people really seen a song a month for like 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.000 twenty four months, like I don't. It's changing rapidly. So basically, 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:11.240 my whole thing was like, Okay, you have to in streaming, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.720 no matter how good the songs are, if you dump 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.520 too many songs at once onto a platform, the first 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.240 x amount are going to get a bunch of streams, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.880 and over the next few years, the last few songs 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.320 are just gonna be like way less and I didn't 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.720 want to do that. But also, this record is a record, 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.000 it's like a whole thing, and I didn't want to 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.400 just be like, here's one song, enjoy it, here's another song. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.880 So I wanted to like create a little bit of 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.280 context to let people know, like, hey, like these are 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.240 kind of the foul poles of the record. It's like 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.120 this is we're going this far, this way, this far, 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.559 that way, and kind of like to let them know, like, hey, 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.120 this is a different thing than I've done before. Get 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.839 excited about it. Um So yeah, it's it's the first 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:53.800 three songs in order on the album, and the short 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.240 film is actually the first six songs in order. It's 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:58.800 like one or two for five, six and then the 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:00.880 last song. But it's like if you just watch the 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.360 films straight through, it's those songs. So the first three 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.960 songs of the record are almost like the first half 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:11.160 of the short film. I was really taken by by 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.640 the song Supernatural, which is, you know about those beautiful 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.280 moments and connections and occurrences that feel part of something greater, 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.000 a bigger force, or a grand plan. I want to 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.040 ask you, is there a supernatural element to songwriting? You 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.600 hear a lot of artists say that. You know, it's 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.320 a lot of cases they don't know where the melodies 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:28.920 come from. They don't know where the song comes from. 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.040 It just you're plugged into something. Is that how it 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.840 works for you? I think so everybody that I've met 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:40.240 that I admire who does like creative work sustainably at 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.360 a high level, it feels like there is that sort 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.040 of magical, supernatural like something just like lightning strikes you 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.240 and it's just like stuff's happening. But it also feels 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.080 like you have to pair that with almost like a 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.840 professional sports like approach, where I think a lot of 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:01.000 people view creativity as this only magical thing. It's like, yeah, man, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.000 you just wait around and lightning strikes and you're weirdly 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.760 attuned to that. But man, like everybody, like I said, 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.760 everybody I've met that I like really admire after you 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.959 push past whatever, like the near they have past that 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.480 is like a professional athlete, and they're like, I write 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.600 every day, I'm like deep into this, And so I 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.160 think it is both like anytime I'm just trying to 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.640 grind it out and nothing's happening, I usually need to 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.360 step back a little bit. But anytime I'm waiting around 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.400 too much, that dies out too So to me, like 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.640 I always treat it when I'm home like a job, 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.000 like I write five days a week all the time. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.200 I'm just like trying to sharpen my tools so that 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.560 when I do get a lightning strike, I can carve 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.920 out exactly what it's supposed to be with no loss. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.560 So like it's a little bit of both for me. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.080 And there definitely are moments there's a number on this 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.520 record that we're just like, wow, that just like plopped 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.720 out of thin air. But for every one of those, 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.040 I'm just like sitting right here at this keyboard just 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.360 like writing for a long time every day. And so 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.480 that's a pattern that I've seen replicated with a bunch 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.240 of successful people, and I haven't run into that many 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:07.880 people that are like, no, man, I don't do it 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.320 like that at all, And they're different approaches kind of, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.160 but like to me, it ends up kind of being 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.160 like a sport where it's like you could look at 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.720 Tiger Woods or Phil mickleson or whoever and be like 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.080 you're just so gifted, and they're probably like, I mean 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.480 kind of but also like I'm just pounding golf balls, man, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.400 So it's a little bit of both for me and 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.080 for a lot of people. I think, what's that line. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.400 I think it was Jack Nicholas, the golfer who said, uh, yeah, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.920 the more I practice, the luckier here I get. That's right, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.120 And that's and and and it really is true because 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.960 like I think a lot of that stuff that feels 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.200 like it's just coming out of thin air is actually 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.600 like just your reflexes kind of like stepping into what's 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.040 happening where like and and and they're definitely definitely is 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.840 a very real, kind of like strange, otherworldly thing where 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.680 it's just like I have no idea why something would 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.960 just like PLoP out of nowhere. That happens, but he 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.080 usually doesn't happen a lot to people that aren't working 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.280 on it, Like it might lightning might strike someone once, 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.280 and if they're not really working on it, probably never 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.640 gonna strike again. You know what I mean. You just 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.360 gotta pay those neural pathways. Yeah, that's right, that's right. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.320 Did you read I'm I'm an absolutely ridiculous Beatles nerds, 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.120 so please shut me up. At any point, did you 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.840 read the new Paul McCartney lyrics book where he goes? 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:27.840 I think he picked something like a hundred and fifty 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.680 of his songs. I have that book right by the 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.680 Steve Turner one too. Okay, So I got that book 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.600 for Christmas, the one you're talking about. I haven't read 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.360 it yet, but I know I did just finish Get 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.720 Back though, probably three or four days ago. So the 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.360 Beatles are my favorite band. I'm just all about it. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.800 I love that you are too, but I haven't. I 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.000 haven't haven't dove into that book yet, but I want to. 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.560 It's sitting on my shelf staring at me. What did 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.800 you think of Get Back in terms of a lot 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.240 of people? I I play music, I don't write it. 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.040 But for people that I know who do write it, 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:06.720 they I've heard a lot of people say that there's 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:11.160 never been a more honest depiction of the creative process. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.240 Then go Back totally, I think, so, man, I have 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.439 so many thoughts I get Back, but I would distill 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:22.000 them to like, I definitely feel like that's real where 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.480 it's and in a weird way, I think people that 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.320 don't maybe you don't write songs all the time or 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.600 probably like this is magical. I can't believe I'm watching it. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.399 And it was almost frustrating for me because I'm like, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.680 close the loop, you're right there, just keep going, And 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.840 like it was interesting to see how um loose they 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.359 are with everything, like so just like still kind of 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.680 learning the chords, still kind of figuring stuff, like very 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.960 vast changes from take to take, and now everything is 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.320 so like dialed in. But I feel like I feel 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.480 bad saying this, but I wanted to be like someone 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.000 just be like focus, guys, just ten minut it, stop 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.879 playing other stuff, just like really try to finish this. Um. 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.560 I think it was a very accurate depiction. So cool 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.280 to see, you know, let it be come together here 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.920 McCartney doing like the Long and Winding Road. And then 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.200 it was also unpopular take. Kind of interesting to see 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:18.879 some of it and be like, this isn't that great, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.080 Like it's it's great. It's great because it's the Beatles, right, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.200 it's great because you're seeing history. But I always think 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.080 if you remove the context from it and you were like, hey, 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.800 like this isn't the Beatles, Like these are my buddies 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.760 from Des Moines? What do you think of this song? 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.399 I'd be like, it's fine, I guess like kind of 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.240 a cool vibe and very few moments of that. But 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.040 it was crazy to see, like you know, all time 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.600 great songs next to some songs you're like, that's fine, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.679 that's okay, um, But I love getting to see it, 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.199 and I love getting to see just how accidental and 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:53.960 how like loose they were with it. That's like a 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.800 good thing for me to learn. Yeah, I mean keeping 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.879 that element of fun. I feel like I really it 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:05.040 to cease, like a sociologist take or real psychologists take 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:09.159 on like either personal dynamics at play and creativity and 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.240 how that goes hand in hands. And I think, realistically, man, 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.359 I think that's for me as a creative person. My 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.439 biggest takeaway from the whole thing was like, hey, the 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:24.800 importance of always including fun and like inspiration and leaving 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:26.960 room for stuff to grow, because I can tend to 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.400 want to like tighten things up, like like let's sew 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.680 this thing together, and they're just like we're not even 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.000 gonna finish this, We're gonna play this other dumb song. 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.359 And some of that left the door open for pool 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.920 stuff to happen, and I mean, obviously the best band 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.760 of all time. Like something to learn from that, I 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.199 mean a lot. Always it brings you back to your 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.080 record the joy of music, I mean, has has the 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.640 last two years now, I guess I gotta say has 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:52.800