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Speaker 1: Hey, there, can I give an ice lavender macha latte

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Speaker 1: with almond milk and light ice. Oh, and I'll take

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Speaker 1: that carrot muffin too.

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Speaker 2: For sure. That'll be eleven seventy eight. And you can

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Speaker 2: just tap your card to your phone right there, and

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Speaker 2: then once it's gone through, it'll ask if you want

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Speaker 2: to leave a tip.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, okay. This is a very common scene these days.

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Speaker 1: You find yourself patronizing a place like a coffee shop,

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Speaker 1: where you walked up to a counter, ordered and waited

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Speaker 1: at the counter for something you purchased to be ready

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Speaker 1: for your consumption. But in the not so distant past,

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Speaker 1: this wasn't a transaction on which we normally tipped. And

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Speaker 1: now it's not just coffee shops asking for your choice

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Speaker 1: of ten, fifteen, or twenty percent. It's the salad bar

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Speaker 1: across from the office, the dry cleaners down the block,

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Speaker 1: and even the local grocery store now has a tip

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Speaker 1: jar at the checkout. According to data from Pew Research Center,

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Speaker 1: seventy two percent of adults say tipping is expected in

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Speaker 1: more places today than compared to five years ago. But

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Speaker 1: the same survey also reveals that people are hella confused

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Speaker 1: about which services and products they should be tipping on.

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Speaker 1: Only thirty four percent of Americans feel very confident in

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Speaker 1: knowing which goods or services to tip for and how much.

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Speaker 1: Tipflation is a term many economists have started using to

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Speaker 1: describe the rising pressure for tips in newer spaces. But

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Speaker 1: how important is tipping to our economy? Should the consumer

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Speaker 1: be responsible for ensuring a living wage to service workers?

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Speaker 1: Or is there more to the picture than we're seeing?

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Speaker 1: And can someone please explain to me how much I

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Speaker 1: should be tipping for my mancho latte with almond milk.

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Speaker 1: Start taking notes because this.

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Speaker 2: Is grown stuff.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Hey, my tip weary friends, Welcome to another exciting

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Speaker 1: episode of grown Up Stuff how To Adults, the podcast

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Speaker 1: dedicated to help you learn grow up lessons like how

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Speaker 1: to calculate the tip on your dinner bill and figuring

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Speaker 1: out how much to tip your barista on a single

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Speaker 1: cup of coffee. I'm Mollie and as always I am

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Speaker 1: joined by a man who needs no introduction and always

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Speaker 1: tips twenty percent. Matt Heillo. Now. A few days ago,

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Speaker 1: Matt I sent you a link to a Pew Research

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Speaker 1: Center quiz. It's titled do you tip more or less often?

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Speaker 1: Than the average American. Tell me what some of your

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Speaker 1: results are. I'm going to share some of mine.

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Speaker 2: My response is were I don't think we're all that

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Speaker 2: interesting because I typically tip, But seeing where most people

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Speaker 2: are tipping, so like eating at a restaurant where there

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Speaker 2: are servers, obviously getting a haircut, I was happy to

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Speaker 2: see because who doesn't enjoy catching up with their barber.

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Speaker 2: This is what was interesting though to me, it seems

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people are not tipping at the

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Speaker 2: coffee house.

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Speaker 1: That's the area that confuses me the most. In this situation.

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Speaker 1: The question is are you always tipping off and tipping,

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Speaker 1: sometimes tipping, rarely tipping, or never tipping? And buying a

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Speaker 1: coffee or other beverage at a coffee shop. Twelve percent

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Speaker 1: said they always tip, another twelve percent said they often tip,

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Speaker 1: twenty seven the majority said they sometimes tip, twenty three

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Speaker 1: percent said they rarely tip, and twenty five percent said

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Speaker 1: never tip. I fell squarely in that twenty seven percent

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Speaker 1: because it's a quick interaction. I'm not sitting down and

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Speaker 1: being served consistently over a period of time, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't know now. I usually because again I have

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Speaker 1: built relationships with the coffee shops that I go to,

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Speaker 1: especially in my neighborhood, so I tip those places. But

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Speaker 1: if it's like a place that I don't have a

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Speaker 1: strong connection to, I don't know that I'll always tip.

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Speaker 2: I worked at a coffee bar, and so there definitely

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Speaker 2: are different types of coffee. Like if I go to

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Speaker 2: a shop and they're just like opening a tap and

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Speaker 2: pouring coffee into it and giving it to you in a cup, like,

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Speaker 2: that's a different situation. But if you're going to what

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Speaker 2: they call like a third wave coffee bar, where they're

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Speaker 2: doing all the drinks, all the espressos, the mochas, they're

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Speaker 2: whipping up the phone, they're pouring your latte art, I mean,

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Speaker 2: that is a really big skill, and you're you're paying

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Speaker 2: for a little bit more of a bespoke coffe the

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Speaker 2: experience in bespoke surface, and so in that situation, I

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Speaker 2: would definitely tip.

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Speaker 1: Well, Matt, I'm curious, what are some of the questions

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Speaker 1: you have about tipping still, Like, what are the biggest

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Speaker 1: points of confusion for you?

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Speaker 2: You and I were talking about this where it's just

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Speaker 2: like if there is this big divide between like if

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Speaker 2: you're eating a restaurant with their service people are tipping,

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Speaker 2: and there's a restaurant withe there's no servers, people aren't tipping.

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Speaker 2: Then what we were talking about is kind of like,

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Speaker 2: then what are we tipping for? Are we tipping for

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Speaker 2: just the fact of someone having bringing walking food out

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Speaker 2: of a kitchen and putting it on your table? Like

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Speaker 2: is it like are you tipping for like the kindness

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Speaker 2: or the friendliness of the interaction, or how quickly people are,

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Speaker 2: you know, coming out to you, or.

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Speaker 1: On the quality of the product.

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Speaker 2: It's the quality of the product itself, you know, is

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Speaker 2: it situational? So are there any hard and fast rules?

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Speaker 2: Was like my biggest question? What about you? I agree?

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Speaker 1: And on top of that, I want to add like

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Speaker 1: tipping practices during the holiday season, like for people who

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Speaker 1: you interact with every day, like I've you know, often

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Speaker 1: read about or heard about like tipping your landlord or

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Speaker 1: or yeah, what exactly are the rules? And like how

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Speaker 1: much should you be tipping during the holidays? But I

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Speaker 1: think you and I will get answers to all of

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Speaker 1: our tipping questions because if you haven't guessed it yet,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about tipping today.

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Speaker 2: This is accurate and we're going to learn about it

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Speaker 2: all from our guest Stacy Vanocksmith.

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Speaker 1: Stacey is the author of the book Machiavelli for Women

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Speaker 1: and also a long time public radio reporter and audio journalist.

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Speaker 1: You may know her from her work with NPR's Planet

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Speaker 1: Money and from her time as the Global Economics correspondent

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Speaker 1: for NPR.

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Speaker 2: And while she was at NPR, Stacy guest hosted an

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Speaker 2: episode of the show Life Kit about tipping culture and practices. Today,

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Speaker 2: she is a senior story editor for Bloomberg Audio.

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Speaker 1: Stacy Vanicksmith, Welcome to the show. We are so excited

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Speaker 1: to have you here. We are going to talk about tipping,

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Speaker 1: and I want to start off with a very very

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Speaker 1: basic question. How did tipping begin? Where did this all

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Speaker 1: come from?

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to

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Speaker 3: be here. I feel like this is a hard question

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Speaker 3: to start with because it gets very dark very quickly there.

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Speaker 3: It started after the Civil War when slavery ended. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so people who had been enslaved were suddenly on the

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Speaker 3: job market getting jobs, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: service jobs were suddenly opened up to people who'd been enslaved,

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Speaker 3: and the pay for these was abysmal. And so this

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Speaker 3: practice started of people tipping because tipping seemed like sort

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Speaker 3: of a middle ground between someone making a living wage

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Speaker 3: and someone being enslaved essentially. So it's the history of

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Speaker 3: it is horrific. And you know, if you go to

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Speaker 3: other countries, if you travel abroad, a lot of times

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Speaker 3: a tip is like a couple bucks or you know,

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Speaker 3: just sort of a like thank you. It's not like

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Speaker 3: a substantial part of someone's pay. It's only really here

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Speaker 3: that we do that tipping. It's just a mess. And

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Speaker 3: I've looked at tipping for a while. I find it

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Speaker 3: really interesting. It is a huge part of our culture.

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Speaker 3: I think there are good things about it, for sure,

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Speaker 3: But I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who

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Speaker 3: is like this system is awesome, Like no one likes it. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: but it's our system. This is the system we have.

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Speaker 2: It's actually interesting to learn that because like, there's something

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Speaker 2: to me that is always and I used to work

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Speaker 2: in restaurants and stuff, there's something to me is always

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Speaker 2: felt inherently wrong about tipping. That like, if people are

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Speaker 2: like depending on this as part of their cell, then

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Speaker 2: you're not paying your staff what they deserve to be paid.

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Speaker 2: You know, my wife and I one of our favorite

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Speaker 2: restaurants is this Japanese restaurant called Ichran, and they've carried

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Speaker 2: over their culture of it being a no tipping establishment,

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Speaker 2: and that's part of why we love it so much.

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Speaker 2: It just feels like if they're not asking for a tip,

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Speaker 2: then they're paying their workers a fair wage and the

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Speaker 2: service is still awesome. But that said, tipping doesn't exist

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Speaker 2: in many cultures. But are we seeing a shift where

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Speaker 2: other places are starting to adopt our system?

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Speaker 3: I feel like all of us have deep emotions around tipping,

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Speaker 3: especially lately because money is tight, prices have gone up

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Speaker 3: so much. The culture around tipping has changed pretty suddenly

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Speaker 3: and pretty extremely. But the idea of not tipping, it's

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Speaker 3: so hard, and you know, people will say like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to tip here, and it's like, I don't.

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Speaker 3: But I actually think the culture around tipping was starting

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Speaker 3: to change here before the pandemic in the US, because

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Speaker 3: there was like Danny Meyer and David Chang had like

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Speaker 3: published op eds in the New York Times saying like

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Speaker 3: we're not having tipping, and they explained it saying, listen,

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Speaker 3: this creates a lot of inequity in the kitchen. I

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Speaker 3: think Danny Meyer was like, my chefs are making less

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Speaker 3: than the bartender because of tips, and they don't get

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Speaker 3: distributed equitably. And I just make sure I pay everybody

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Speaker 3: a living wage. And so, you know, you'd go to

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Speaker 3: one of these restaurants kind of like you were saying, Matt,

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Speaker 3: and there was this feeling of like, Oh, everybody's actually

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Speaker 3: being taken care of, they are making a living wage.

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Speaker 3: This isn't on me. Yeah, And I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: the reason that we find this topic so endlessly fascinating

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Speaker 3: and interesting is because we know there's something wrong with

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Speaker 3: the system, and we feel it all the time. I

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Speaker 3: think that strange feeling you were talking about, Matt, is

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Speaker 3: like that you're like, something's wrong here. I'm being asked

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Speaker 3: to tip as if it's just like a thank you,

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Speaker 3: but it feels like it's not really a thank you.

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Speaker 3: You're supplementing someone who's been underpaid. So it's messed up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 3: This gets very politicized very fast. People have extremely strong

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Speaker 3: opinions about tipping. I think one of the reasons that

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Speaker 3: it's hung around is a lot of like kind of

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Speaker 3: powerful interest groups around restaurants, Like basically it's a way

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Speaker 3: for restaurants to post lower prices and to still get

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Speaker 3: a higher amount of money to employees, like a competitive

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Speaker 3: pay to employees. And I think when restaurants try to

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Speaker 3: not do that, which Danny Meyer and David Chang did

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Speaker 3: before the pandem but they both went back to tipping

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Speaker 3: during the pandemic. There really people were having so much

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Speaker 3: trouble finding people to work. And if you're going to

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Speaker 3: pick a restaurant to work at and it's really competitive

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Speaker 3: and you have like five job offers, are you going

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Speaker 3: to go to the place that's like, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to tip you, We're going to pay you a solid

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Speaker 3: living wage versus Especially during the pandemic, people were I

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Speaker 3: think had an increased awareness of essential workers and the

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Speaker 3: importance of that work and the difficulty of it, and

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Speaker 3: so the tips were pretty good. It's like, I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna not get tips. So I think they went back

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Speaker 3: to a tipping situation just to be competitive enough to

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Speaker 3: get the workers they wanted they had to.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, tipping can be super fraught and complicated. While

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Speaker 1: some service workers saw an increase in tips from twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty to twenty twenty one, especially food delivery workers and

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Speaker 1: workers with a more distant role at quick service and

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Speaker 1: full service restaurants. According to a study published in the

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Speaker 1: Compensation and Benefits or View, others saw a decrease in tips,

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Speaker 1: especially those working in full service restaurants with more face

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Speaker 1: to face interactions with customers. But the global pandemic hasn't

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Speaker 1: been the only catalyst of change in our tipping practices. Today,

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Speaker 1: technology may be the largest driver for tipping. In March

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Speaker 1: of twenty fourteen, NPR reported that in some businesses, employees

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Speaker 1: saw a fifty percent increase in tips with the introduction

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Speaker 1: of new swivel screened payment processing systems like Toast, Clover

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Speaker 1: or Square. These new tools also beg the question how

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Speaker 1: much of that tip actually gets to the person on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the counter.

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Speaker 3: Now we have like the rise of these tip screens

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Speaker 3: and the dreaded screen turn and Square owns a lot

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Speaker 3: of them, and Square takes a cut of the whole transaction. Really, yes,

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Speaker 3: tip included, So if you tip more, their cut is bigger,

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Speaker 3: and then the restaurant will choose to you either honor

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Speaker 3: the whole tip or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, that is very interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so they have an incentive to have higher tipping numbers.

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Speaker 3: And then I think for employers, like they want to

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Speaker 3: keep their workers happy, they need to keep their workers,

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Speaker 3: and it's just easier for them to not deal with

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Speaker 3: raising prices and pay their workers maybe less than a

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Speaker 3: living wage and just be like, well, you can make

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Speaker 3: it up with the tip. And then there you are

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Speaker 3: in this awkward situation, just trying to get a coffee,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, you're like, nine dollars feels

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Speaker 3: like a lot, but you're looking at this person who's

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Speaker 3: looking at you, and you're like, I guess twenty five

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Speaker 3: percent is good, yeah, and you know, and then it

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Speaker 3: raises all these questions and people get very emotional. During

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Speaker 3: the pandemic, I think a lot of people wanted to

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Speaker 3: tip more. They wanted to tip workers more. Is just

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Speaker 3: like a gesture.

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Speaker 2: We were all they were essential workers, right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: We were trying to help each other out. Now things

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Speaker 3: are a little different, but tipping has just increased. And

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Speaker 3: also we started tipping people we didn't use to tip before.

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Speaker 3: During the pandemic, right like, there was a tip jar

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Speaker 3: and my supermarket, and the tip jar stayed and now

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Speaker 3: we're all kind of we don't want to be that

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Speaker 3: person who's like, I'm not leaving a tip.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you bring up a really good point of like

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Speaker 1: what is the reason for tipping, Like are we tipping

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Speaker 1: on skill? Are we tipping on general treatment and personality?

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Speaker 3: Ostensibly we're tipping because we are acknowledging exceptional service or

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Speaker 3: good service as like a thanks, you did extra work,

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Speaker 3: here's extra money. But functionally that is not how the

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Speaker 3: tips are being used in a lot of cases, and

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Speaker 3: this is where it gets even more complicated state by

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Speaker 3: state and everything. But in a lot of cases like

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Speaker 3: that money is getting people up to minimum wage. So

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Speaker 3: in that case, it's not really acknowledging exceptional service as

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Speaker 3: much as it is like, here is my contribution towards

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Speaker 3: you making a living wage, and that I think we

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Speaker 3: recognize both things are going on, and you sort of

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Speaker 3: feel resentful. It feels like a bait and switch. It's

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Speaker 3: like this price was presented to me. It's like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: this coffee is supposed to cost five dollars, but really

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Speaker 3: the coffee doesn't cost five dollars. Really the coffee costs

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Speaker 3: eight dollars, and then I can choose to pay five

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Speaker 3: dollars for it, and I will be taking money away

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Speaker 3: from this person who is looking at me, who made

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Speaker 3: my coffee, and like, just tell me it's eight dollars.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It puts us off. I think this

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Speaker 3: is why people get so emotional about tipping.

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Speaker 1: Not only do people get emotional about tipping, but there

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Speaker 1: also doesn't seem to be one school of thought on

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Speaker 1: how to approach tipping. According to data from the Pew

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Speaker 1: Research Center, twenty one percent of Americans say that tipping

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Speaker 1: is more of a choice, while twenty nine percent say

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Speaker 1: it's an obligation and forty nine percent say it.

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Speaker 2: Depends on the situation.

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Speaker 1: Many of us know that tipping is a way to

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Speaker 1: help work in the service industry make a living wage,

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Speaker 1: but many consumers feel like the burdens shouldn't fall on them,

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Speaker 1: and more than seventy two percent of Americans are opposed

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Speaker 1: to businesses including automatic service charges or gratuity onto their bill.

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Speaker 3: People always looking for who to blame, so some people

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Speaker 3: are like, oh, workers are so entitled, they don't want

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Speaker 3: to do anything. They expect these huge tips. That's not true.

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Speaker 3: In a lot of cases, workers are not making anywhere

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Speaker 3: close to enough to live right or people is like,

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Speaker 3: it's the business owners. They're underpaying, they're workers, they're exploiting people,

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Speaker 3: and customers are expected to make up the difference. Well,

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Speaker 3: that's true, but they are trying to get people to

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Speaker 3: buy their stuff, and if they price in higher wages,

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Speaker 3: people aren't going to buy their stuff. So then it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: it's the customer's faul because they don't want to pay workers.

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Speaker 3: But we've all seen prices rise faster than our wages,

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Speaker 3: and our buying power has diminished. Our credit card debt

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Speaker 3: has gone through the room poof our savings has liked.

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Speaker 2: What savings resolved? Savings? What's that?

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Speaker 3: I don't it's so true. So we are all struggling

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Speaker 3: and basically passing this football of higher prices around and

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Speaker 3: it converges on tips and like this weird cultural awkwardness

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Speaker 3: that is the American tipping situation.

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Speaker 2: And I want to drill down a little bit onto

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Speaker 2: something that you'd brought up earlier, which is like this

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Speaker 2: concept of a living wage, the concept of a minimum

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Speaker 2: wage and getting people up to if not minimum, then

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Speaker 2: a living wage. This is something that I knew about

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Speaker 2: for a long time, but I had no idea was

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Speaker 2: actually legal. So, like minimum wage across the country is

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Speaker 2: seven to twenty five, but I know some people who

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Speaker 2: make two dollars an hour because they were getting tipped

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Speaker 2: on top of it. And you know, my first question

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Speaker 2: for a long time was like how is that even legal?

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Speaker 2: But it turns out is it is legal because of

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Speaker 2: a thing called a sub minimum wage. Can you talk

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Speaker 2: to us about what a sub minimum wage is?

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Speaker 3: So Sylvia Aligretto is an economist. She also worked as

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Speaker 3: a tipped worker as a waitress and a bartender for years,

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Speaker 3: so she's very familiar with This is actually what inspired

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Speaker 3: her work on minimum wage. So, the federal minimum wage

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Speaker 3: is seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour. States

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Speaker 3: will often have higher minimum wages, like Washington State their

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Speaker 3: minimum wage is sixteen dollars an hour. There's also a

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Speaker 3: federal subminimum wage, which has not changed since like nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety three or something. What I know, it's two dollars

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Speaker 3: and thirteen cents an hour. Oh my god, you can't

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Speaker 3: pay any work or this. They have to be in

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Speaker 3: a certain industries, but the rules around it are very vague.

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Speaker 3: So like a lot of people like if you work

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Speaker 3: at a car wash or your massage therapist, or work

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Speaker 3: as a bartender or a server, you are eligible to

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Speaker 3: get a subminimum wage. Now, a lot of states do

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Speaker 3: not allow that, like Washington State with its sixteen dollars

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Speaker 3: minimum wage does not allow for subminimum wages, but a

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Speaker 3: lot of states do. And so depending on where you live,

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Speaker 3: the pay and tipping situation is just really different. For

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Speaker 3: the workers who are serving you your lunch or coffee

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Speaker 3: two dollars and thirteen cents. It's mind blowing. It's like

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Speaker 3: what someone would make in the thirties.

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Speaker 2: And going back to this, it just feels illegal to me, Like,

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Speaker 2: I just cannot believe that something like that is legal.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's what is supposed to happen. So, technically speaking,

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Speaker 3: you can pay someone a sub minimum wage, but if

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Speaker 3: their tips do not get them up to minimum wage,

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Speaker 3: the employer's supposed to make up the difference.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, here's the catch.

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Speaker 3: So what Sylvia ali Gretto told me, and what she

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Speaker 3: found in her research was that a lot of times

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Speaker 3: like this just doesn't happen in practice. Because she used

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Speaker 3: this example and it sort of rang very true for me.

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Speaker 3: She's like, you know, let's say it's someone working a

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Speaker 3: diner shift in the middle of the night. This woman

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Speaker 3: is desperately trying to get off of overnights, but she's

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Speaker 3: trying to get in good with her boss. Her tips

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Speaker 3: fall short. She's supposed to then go to her boss

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Speaker 3: and say like, hey, I did not make enough money.

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Speaker 3: You need to supplement my income. But if she's trying

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Speaker 3: to get in good with the boss, or feels like

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Speaker 3: that's going to be badly received, or is worried about

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Speaker 3: losing her job, she may not do that. And Sylvia

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Speaker 3: Alagreta was like, I had a bunch of service jobs.

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Speaker 3: No employer ever once asked me to report my income

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Speaker 3: to be like did you actually get up to minimum wage?

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Speaker 3: And probably doesn't happen a lot.

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Speaker 1: Well, and there's probably no way for the government, local

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Speaker 1: or federal to penalize the employer if that was the case.

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Speaker 1: You know that they needed to because the tips aren't

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Speaker 1: always reported accurately, either right.

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Speaker 3: They're in cash or like, you know, the employer can

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Speaker 3: be like listen, we didn't know. Like it gets really fuzzy,

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Speaker 3: and I mean, I think Clinton tried really hard to

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Speaker 3: raise the sub minimum wage, but apparently the Restaurant Association

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Speaker 3: was like really fought for this and was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: jobs will be lost if this happens. This is always

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Speaker 3: the argument around minimum wage, and I don't think it's

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Speaker 3: a completely false either. Like I don't want to villainize

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Speaker 3: small business owners because I also think that they're dealing

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Speaker 3: with a lot, but you end up with people making

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Speaker 3: two dollars and thirteen cents an hour, and like customers don't.

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Speaker 2: Know no, Yeah, And this is the thing that always

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Speaker 2: makes me like realize that, like, man, I have to tip,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't really even care if like the service

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Speaker 2: isn't that bad. It's just like people are making two

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Speaker 2: dollars a goddamn hour, yes, Like, and I don't think

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Speaker 2: anyone knows this really, Like I worked in the industry

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Speaker 2: and I didn't even really understand the concept of the

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Speaker 2: subminimum wage. So it's really important for people to know this.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: It's so hard to know because first of all, like

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Speaker 3: every state, some states have different sub minimum wages, so

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Speaker 3: if you happen to travel to a different state, you've

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Speaker 3: got to look it up. Economic Policy Institute has a

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Speaker 3: good wage tracker that is free, but it's so confusing,

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Speaker 3: and you don't know what a particular business is doing either,

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Speaker 3: Like even if if you know the laws of the state,

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Speaker 3: you don't know what a business is doing. And like

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Speaker 3: some employees are sometimes counted a sub minimum wage. That

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Speaker 3: would surprise you. It's so confusing. If you're a customer,

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Speaker 3: it's really hard, Like you just do your best. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's complicated. Tipping, It's complicated.

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Speaker 1: Tipping It's complicated. That is the title of this episode,

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Speaker 1: Tipping It's complicated.

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Speaker 3: We are correct to be uncomfortable and upset about tipping.

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Speaker 3: That is what I would tell everyone. I talked to

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Speaker 3: a barista for a tipping story I did for NPR,

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Speaker 3: and he worked in Philly. He's so wonderful. He was

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Speaker 3: in his thirties and he was like, you know, I

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Speaker 3: love this job. I love making espresso, Like this is

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Speaker 3: my career. This is my job. And he's like, people

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Speaker 3: look at my job like, oh, it's okay if you're underpaid,

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Speaker 3: because this is a job for like young people or

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Speaker 3: people who are transitioning, or it's a side hustle. This

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Speaker 3: is not someone's whole job. But he's like, it is

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Speaker 3: my whole job. And he said, now this is crushing.

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Speaker 3: I have never in this since I talked with him.

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Speaker 3: He had to do the screen turn and he's like,

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Speaker 3: it's really awkward. People say all kinds of weird things

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Speaker 3: like and he's like, I'm a human being, Like it's

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Speaker 3: really hard when someone's like, well I'm not tipping, or

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Speaker 3: why is the tip so high? Or whatever? And I said, well,

432
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 3: can you tell if somebody doesn't tip? Can you tell

433
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 3: what buttons people push? Essentially? Yeah, because there's always that

434
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 3: weird thing where the person like turns the screen and

435
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: kind of looks away. And I said, well, do you

436
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 3: feel bad if someone doesn't tip or just just kind

437
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 3: of roll off your back. He's like, no, I feel

438
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 3: bad because he's like it's like this person is saying

439
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 3: like I don't care if you make a living wage

440
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 3: or not.

441
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: That's so hard.

442
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's my other problem with the

443
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: whole situation too, because it's like they deserve to have

444
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: a living wage. Like if you're working a job and

445
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: you're working a job eight hours a day, like what

446
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: gives here with you know, people feeling like they deserve

447
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: less than a living wage. It just blows my mind.

448
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, no, that's really that's so true. But I

449
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 3: do also have a lot of sympathy for customers because like,

450
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: we are getting asked to tip a lot.

451
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, it's tip plac.

452
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 3: That's the new term, I mean, and it's kind of

453
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 3: it's true, right, And there's some data from bank greet

454
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 3: that people were starting to tip less because it's just

455
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 3: like at a certain point, you can only afford so much.

456
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: So like from an economist's perspective, it's like, well that's

457
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 3: not great either. It's like, okay, well I'm just going

458
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 3: to get a coffee once a week instead of five

459
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: days a week or whatever.

460
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 2: It is.

461
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 3: Well, that's really bad for the coffee and the worker

462
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: and everybody too. So I think we're all kind of

463
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 3: in a tough situation together, and it's messy. Why is

464
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 3: it so important that we continue to tip our uber eats,

465
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: grub hubs, seamless delivery people, and our Uber and Lyft drivers. Right,

466
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 3: A very tiny percentage of people tip their Uber and

467
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: Lyft drivers.

468
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: Right.

469
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: And I was talking with Schubronchu Sing about this. He's

470
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 3: a professor of hotel management and this writing is so true.

471
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,719
Speaker 3: He was like, by the time the app asked us

472
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: for a tip, our interaction with them is done. It's

473
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 3: not a person standing in front of a screen. And

474
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 3: I think because we do feel so sort of overtaxed

475
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 3: and overtipped and it's like do you want to leave

476
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: five dollars? It's like, I don't know. That ride was

477
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: more expensive already than I thought it was going to be.

478
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 3: But those workers are often earning like not much. And

479
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 3: this is the same with hotels too. I mean there's

480
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: a big socialization cultural issue with this too. Right, we

481
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: feel that pressure right with the screen turn or even

482
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 3: at a restaurant when someone leaves a tab. It's like

483
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 3: the personal interaction having to kind of face the person

484
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: who is being affected by your tipping decision. I think

485
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,959
Speaker 3: affects our tipping decisions a lot. And if you know

486
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 3: you're never going to see the person again, but it

487
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that that person isn't the person who needs

488
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 3: your tip. More so, I think it's worth thinking about.

489
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 3: I do not want to pile guilt on anybody or anything,

490
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 3: but I just think an awareness of how little a

491
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: lot of people who clean hotels earn, how little a

492
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 3: lot of uber and lip drivers earn, is important to

493
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: just keep in mind and like to just try to

494
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 3: give what you can, or to have a strategy in place,

495
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,959
Speaker 3: even if it's not perfect, just to think about it

496
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 3: instead of just like responding to the pressures of the moment,

497
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: which I am one hundred percent guilty of.

498
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: I think it's a very adult thing to feel a

499
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: little guilt every now and then and to have it

500
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: move our actions in a better way.

501
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 3: I think that's true. Actually, maybe the adulting lesson here

502
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: is that, like you learn how to evolve your relationship

503
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: with guilt. That's a big adulting topic. I think we're

504
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: here for it.

505
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: Though.

506
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because I think this is the first

507
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: episode where it's really more like we just need to

508
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: understand more about tipping, because again, I think that people

509
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: could maybe come into this going like, God, I just

510
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: hate tipping. I'm hoping they're gonna come here tell me

511
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 2: I don't need to do it. And it's interesting that like,

512
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 2: the more we know about it, that we realize how

513
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: important it is and how people are unfair. You know,

514
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: it's a raw deal for everyone. It feels like a

515
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 2: damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of

516
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: an episode to me, but also like it is important

517
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: to know all this stuff Yeah, it's funny because we're

518
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: I guess I'm walking away with knowing more but not

519
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: really sure about like what the act item is for

520
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: people here.

521
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: I feel like that's the most adult thing of all,

522
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 3: walking away with the more nuanced understanding of the problem

523
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 3: and no solution.

524
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

525
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 3: I mean, I think what we're really dealing with here

526
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 3: is inflation, and I know I keep talking about that.

527
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 3: But like food delivery, I think is such a great

528
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 3: example because the food delivery situation is so extreme. It's

529
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: like you order a burrito that costs nine dollars and

530
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: somehow it's forty dollars. Yeah, after all, a sudden done,

531
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 3: and that is so many fees get piled on there,

532
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: like fees for everything, and so the Biden administration has

533
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 3: done a big push on this, pushing back against fees,

534
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 3: like hotels are really guilty of this, like resort fees, airlines,

535
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: ticket change fees. Some of the fees are huge. But like,

536
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 3: I think food delivery is one that we can all

537
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: relate to where you're like, what but at this point

538
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 3: you're like, I want the burrito.

539
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: I guess I'll pay forty dollars for it.

540
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 3: And then on the top of that would you like

541
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,239
Speaker 3: to tip your driver? You know, the one thing I

542
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 3: can recommend is like to exclude the fees when you tip.

543
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 3: The suggested tip will include all those fees, and you

544
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 3: shouldn't be tipping on top of fees and taxes. But

545
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 3: there's a term economists used for all this stuff together,

546
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: like higher tips and fees. It's called stealth inflation. And

547
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 3: there's a sort of a school of thought amongst some

548
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 3: economists that inflation is actually higher than we think it

549
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 3: is because of stuff like this. Fees sometimes do get

550
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 3: factored into the inflation index that the government looks at,

551
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: but tips don't. So all together, like the prices of

552
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: things maybe have risen more than even has been acknowledged.

553
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 3: And I think that's also why it's so upsetting, because

554
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: we are starting to realize that, like maybe there's a

555
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 3: big lifestyle adjustment that has to happen. It's like this

556
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: dirty secret in our economy, Like businesses don't want to

557
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 3: acknowledge it. We don't want to acknowledge it. So we're

558
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: like charging tons of things on our credit cards, paying

559
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 3: what looks like a pretty reasonable price that ends up

560
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 3: being like much higher than we thought. So I don't know.

561
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: I think that's a lot of what's happening. And I

562
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 3: think that's a lot of like why we're upset is

563
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 3: we sort of feel like something's being hidden from us,

564
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: which I think it is, and the most vulnerable people

565
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: in our economy are the ones often bearing the brunt

566
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 3: of this. We're sort of at the mercy of people's

567
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: tips and goodwill and budgets.

568
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: Frankly, I think it's interesting that you brought up tipping

569
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 2: on top of tax and I had never thought about

570
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: this until I was at a restaurant with my brother

571
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: and he's always been better at math and I and

572
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: he's like, you're tipping on top of the tax And

573
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: I was like what And he was like, so, basically,

574
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: what that means is you're including the tax as a

575
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: portion of the total tip you're paying, which is basically

576
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: like thanking a fee with a tip. And I was like, Oh,

577
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: that's interesting. I've never really thought about it that way.

578
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: But when you talk about all the services and fee

579
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: attacking on top of it, you're also paying a percentage

580
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: of those too. So is this something that you you know?

581
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: Because Molly and I were debating about this beforehand.

582
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: Like because I am always just like stop nickel and

583
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: diming the people. As we've just discussed, who're earning two

584
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: thirteen an hour.

585
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so is there a hard and fast yeat guidance there?

586
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think there's hard and fast guidance.

587
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: I think Molly has an excellent point. What I would

588
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: say to counter that a little bit is if you

589
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 3: were in a position where you were really trying to

590
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 3: figure out what you can afford, and you want to

591
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: be a good person and a good customer, but your

592
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: budget is really limited, you can just take the core amount,

593
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: add the tip onto that, and that is a decent tip,

594
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: Like you do not have to feel bad about that tip.

595
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: So you can sort of like make some rules for

596
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 3: yourself where you're like, Okay, well I'd love to leave more,

597
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: and maybe at some point in the future I can,

598
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: but for now I will leave this. It's like, okay,

599
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: what's the minimum tip that I leave? Like, Yeah, let's

600
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: say the service is terrible, let's say the order's wrong,

601
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: everything's bad. The tip now becomes just a function of

602
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: you sort of acknowledging and honoring this person's like wage situation,

603
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 3: and so like, what's the amount that you want to

604
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: leave in that situation. And then if the service is

605
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: amazing and you love the person and they've crafted you

606
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: the most beautiful whatever latte art you ever seen, or

607
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: you just think they're wonderful and you want to acknowledge that.

608
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: I think there's tipping more is never going to be

609
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 3: a bad thing. But I would also recommend one thing

610
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: you can do, especially too if you're pinch just tipping

611
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 3: in cash is always better.

612
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: Oh, which, like I know.

613
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 3: A lot of us don't carry that much cash around now,

614
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: but if you want to sort of a fail safe

615
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: way to like make sure you're getting money into the

616
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: right hands, cash is the best.

617
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

618
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: But also tipping in cash feels weird, and then I

619
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: feel like if I do hit the like no tip,

620
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: then I feel like I want to be like, but

621
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: I tipped in cash. Did you you saw that right?

622
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: Right?

623
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 3: Yes?

624
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: I always feel like I need to like, yes, I

625
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: need to like add that footnote of like it's in cash.

626
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: It's like tipping theater, right, You're like waiting until they're

627
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: looking so then you can pretend like you're sneaking money

628
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 3: into the tip jar. But you're like, I just want

629
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 3: you to know I'm tipping you, yeah, or.

630
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: Write down like zero and then put like cash in

631
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: the the line on the on the receipt.

632
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 3: Oh that's smart.

633
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: But the fact that we even have to write cash

634
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: is because it's part of the tipping theater. We're like,

635
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: we don't want you to.

636
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: I'm writing zero because I like you guys did at there.

637
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm like this cash there too.

638
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, I don't know what people in other countries

639
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: do with the enormous chunk of our brains that we

640
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: were spending like doing all these calculations and dealing with

641
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 3: all this like emotional like navigating this like emotional terrain,

642
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: Like it's a terrible situation. Tipping is terrible.

643
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: Hopefully they're putting it towards solving the climate crisis.

644
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 3: That's what I absolutely, Yes, somewhere on Square there is

645
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 3: a button for saving the planet.

646
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: Coming up on grown up stuff How to Adults.

647
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 3: I had a plumber come and he was like, oh,

648
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: can you pay me on Square? And suddenly I was like,

649
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: am I supposed to tip my plumber? That is where

650
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: things get really tricky.

651
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: Will be right back after a quick break and we're

652
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: back with more grown up stuff How to Adults?

653
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: So now we want to get down to like what

654
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: is like common sense practice around tipping. So what really

655
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: are the services and or goods that we really should

656
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: be tipping for every single time?

657
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 3: I would say, first of all, look up where you

658
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: are and look up what the tipping rules are in

659
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: your area. I think that is a big deal. Then

660
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: I would say, like anyone who's potentially earning a sub

661
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 3: minimum wage, that is your absolute top priority, because they're

662
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: making potentially two dollars and thirteen cents an hour. Other

663
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: than that, I mean seven twenty five, which is the

664
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: federal minimum wage. Like, that's also not a ton. If

665
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: you are in a business that is encouraging you to tip,

666
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,719
Speaker 3: or where the tip is sort of part of the transaction,

667
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: often that is a signal that that person is not

668
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: really making a minimum wage, that they are potentially counting

669
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: on your tip to get up to a living wage.

670
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: So it's not just like, oh, there's a tip jar

671
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: at the dry cleaner. It's like the tipping is a

672
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: big part of the transaction here. I think that's a tell.

673
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: After that, I would say, I know it's a lot,

674
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: and hotels are a lot, but I would say, like

675
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: leaving a tip in a hotel or like uber drivers

676
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 3: often things like that, but you don't have to tip

677
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: twenty percent in every case, But just I think leaving

678
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: something is important, and if you're really really on a budget,

679
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 3: I think even just leaving what you can is good.

680
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: And I would say, like the key thing is knowing

681
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 3: where you are and what the rules are where you are,

682
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: and that is a really good baseline. And yeah, I

683
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: would say, just like be kind to yourself. This is

684
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 3: a mess, Like it's a mess. That's my major takeaways,

685
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 3: Like this is chaos.

686
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: In some of the research that we did, I came

687
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: across this idea of like are we now tipping at

688
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: places where we really shouldn't be?

689
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah. I got some very funny comments where

690
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 3: people were like I had a plumber come and he

691
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 3: was like, oh, can you pay me on square? And

692
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: suddenly he was like I was like, am I supposed

693
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 3: to tip my plumber? That is where things get really tricky.

694
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 3: And I think the best advice I got was from

695
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 3: Schubronchu Sing and what he said was winn doubt I

696
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 3: tipped ten percent okay, And I was like, okay, Yeah,

697
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 3: it's one of those things where like it's not good, Like,

698
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: no one's happy in that situation, but at least, like

699
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: the person who you tipped ten percent is not happy.

700
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 3: You were not happy. No one's happy. But I think

701
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: it's like it's sort of like a decent feel. I

702
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: felt it was like a reasonable and decent way to

703
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 3: deal with a hard situation.

704
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: Maybe this is what we're learning is if we can

705
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 2: get to a place where no one is happy, then

706
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: maybe that's exactly where we should be.

707
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: You are a real adult that everybody's happy.

708
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: No, it's happy, everyone's happy.

709
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. Actually I talked to a man who worked

710
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 3: in the music industry. He would like negotiate deals with

711
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 3: like musicians and labels, and that's what he said. I

712
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 3: was like, oh, giviny negotiating tips And he said, well,

713
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 3: it's usually the sign of a good new negotiation if

714
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 3: no one's happy, And I was like, okay. He's like,

715
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 3: if someone's like thrilled, usually that means that somebody got screwed.

716
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 3: And if nobody's thrilled, that's usually a sign of like,

717
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: then everybody got a little screwed. And maybe that's the

718
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 3: best we can hope for in this world.

719
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: That's true that's something. Pe Research Center said that fifty

720
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: seven percent of Americans say they tiped fifteen percent or

721
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: less at a sit down restaurant. As we kind of

722
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, I always do twenty on top of all

723
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: the taxes fees. Yeah, is this above and beyond? Like

724
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: what is again? Is this a regional thing we talked

725
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: a little bit before, like where some people are like,

726
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: or is twenty the new fifth? And we should all

727
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: be at a sit down restaurant scenario, we should all

728
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: be assuming twenty percent, whether that's if you choose to

729
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: do it on top of the fees or if you

730
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: decided to do it, you know, before all the taxes

731
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: and fees.

732
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 3: I would say the very minimum should be fifteen percent.

733
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I think just based on the world we

734
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: live in now, I think if twenty still is a

735
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 3: good tip, and then above that is like a great

736
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 3: tip and a sit down restaurant, like I really would say,

737
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: I mean, if the person throws water in your face,

738
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 3: tip ten percent.

739
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: And this also the thing brings up something that you

740
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: had mentioned in your NPR article that like the people

741
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 2: should feel empowered to hit custom tip and to leave

742
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: fifteen or twenty if that's what they want to do.

743
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 3: Yes, this was something that I sort of started doing.

744
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 3: It was like, okay, you make a rule for yourself,

745
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 3: and it was like, I will tip twenty percent, So

746
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 3: I think normalize custom tip.

747
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: I love that.

748
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I liked that suggestion too because it's sort

749
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: of I feel like part of what is upsetting as

750
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 3: a customer is you sort of feel like all this pressure.

751
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: It's like one of those things where it's like all

752
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 3: this stuff happens and then you're like outside of the

753
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: coffee shop with your coffee and you're like, wait, how

754
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: much did I just pay? And you sort of feel like.

755
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: It feels like they're putting this emotional social pressure on

756
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: you in the moment, and by putting twenty five is

757
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: the minimum they're getting away with something, Whereas like you

758
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: should reclaim that moment and that awkwardness probably no going

759
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: into the transaction that you might be faced with that

760
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: and go like, hey, like I've decided for myself that

761
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to tip twenty percent, you know, or I've

762
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: decided for myself I'm gonna tip fifty percent, so I'm not

763
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: going to feel bad in this social moment to hit

764
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: custom tip and leave what I'm comfortable with.

765
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 3: I like that idea, like reclaiming the awkwardness of that moment,

766
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 3: because I do feel like there's this time pressure, there's

767
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 3: this emotional pressure. You're just wantaking coffee, and it's like

768
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: it's a lot coming at you all at once, and

769
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: you haven't had coffee yet.

770
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

771
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: Like it's just right coming at you.

772
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: That's the real crime here, and you haven't had your

773
00:37:59,040 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: caffeine yet.

774
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: All this stuff is converging on the screen. Turn It's

775
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: like amazing, we're all still upright and talking.

776
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, this is so true. I want to

777
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: talk about tipping that we experience kind of in a

778
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: different context, which is around the holidays. How much should

779
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: we be tipping people who we interact with every day

780
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: that we don't tip every day.

781
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 3: It depends, I think, on where you live. Like here

782
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 3: in New York, it's traditional, like if you live in

783
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 3: a building with the doorman, you're supposed to tip the doorman, right,

784
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 3: And from what I've heard, it's like around ten percent

785
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: of your rent or something like that of your monthly rent,

786
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, or like tip your super if your super's

787
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: the one you interact with. Like I live at Ability.

788
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: It doesn't have a doorman, but I have a super.

789
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 3: So that idea is like you tip your super. And

790
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: then like you're postal worker is someone you can think

791
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: about tipping too at that time because there obviously that's

792
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: like a big time of year, they're working really hard.

793
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: So those are the two that come to mind. We're

794
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 3: not talking about people who are counting on your tip

795
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 3: to get them to minimum wage. I think that's like

796
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 3: an important thing to remember, like that tip is really

797
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: a tip. It's like really an acknowledgment of a relationship

798
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 3: and service to me, that feels like so I would

799
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: say that sounds great. I mean I would say, like,

800
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: find what feels appropriate to you, sort of figure out

801
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: what the custom is, figure out like what the range

802
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: within the custom is, and find like the point within

803
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 3: that range where you feel comfortable. And also it's like

804
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: depends on what you can afford. And I mean, I

805
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: think you just try to do what you can.

806
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: But Molly, you will never be a monster for making

807
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 2: someone baked goods and giving them a personal note during

808
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 2: the holiday.

809
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: But maybe it's just like no, just give them more cash,

810
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 1: get your shit together, give them more cash.

811
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: I think, I think anyone would appreciate that. And I've

812
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: had your baked goods and they're delicious. Oh, thank you.

813
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: This is Brooklyn. You're supposed to be able to pay

814
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: for things with baked goods. Yes, we still have a

815
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 3: little soul in this country. I like to think it's

816
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 3: not all about money. Thank you, Stacy.

817
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: That makes you feel better.

818
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: It's just an acknowledgement of value. And you could do

819
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: that in a number of ways.

820
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

821
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 2: I like that. You're right.

822
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: You're right now. I don't plan on like just being

823
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: like here, Burisa, here's for my coffee today.

824
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 3: Here's one scone.

825
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: I begged him all every day. You give me a scone,

826
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: I would give you.

827
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: I will give you a scone. Yeah.

828
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: Well, Stacy, you are now in a new position. Where

829
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: can they find what the next thing that you're working on?

830
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 3: So I'm at Bloomberg now. I'm working as an editor there,

831
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: but I am also filing stories from Marketplace a lot,

832
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: so marketplace dot org is probably the best place right now.

833
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 3: It's fine.

834
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: My stuff amazing. I will constantly be reading and listening

835
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: to all of it, So, all of your work, So thank.

836
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 3: You so much, Thank you and I will be thinking

837
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: about your scones.

838
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

839
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 1: Listen player cards, right, Stacey, I might mail yourself thinking

840
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 1: about and scones.

841
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: Sounds like a good deal.

842
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do my best. I do my best, all right,

843
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 3: Thanks you.

844
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: Guys, Stacy.

845
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: You've got some tea scones coming your way. To show

846
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: my appreciation for this illuminating conversation about tipping. This really

847
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: has been a grown up stuff first, because there's not

848
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: necessarily a clear path forward on tipping, but I've learned

849
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: so much about how and why it started and a

850
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: deeper understanding of what it means. Here's what else I'm

851
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: taking away from our conversation with Stacy Vanocksmith on tipping.

852
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: The practice of tipping in the United States began shortly

853
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: after the Civil War. During reconstruction. People who had formerly

854
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: been enslaved had limited job options, so many took on

855
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: roles in the food and service industry and agreed to

856
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: work for tips without a wage. Tipping is a very

857
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: complicated ecosystem, and some restauranteurs have tried to get rid

858
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: of tipping and increased the base pay for all of

859
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: their staff, but then they faced the chair lenge of

860
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,959
Speaker 1: employees going elsewhere to try to make even more money

861
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: in a role where the pay is far less, but

862
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: there is an opportunity to make a lot more with tips.

863
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: Those newer digital tools restaurants are now using to process

864
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: payments like square or toasts. You know they're the tablet

865
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: screens that turn around to face you and ask you

866
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: how much you want to tip. Well, those companies are

867
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 1: taking a percentage of every transaction total, including the tip.

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00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: So while these have made tipping very easy for consumers,

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00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: and in some cases have even increased the average amount

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00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: that we tip, cash is still best when it comes

871
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: to tipping service workers. The federal minimum wage rate is

872
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: seven twenty five. However, if you are a tipped employee,

873
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: then your employer is allowed to pay you a subminimum

874
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: wage of two dollars and thirteen cents. If the tipped

875
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: employee doesn't make enough in tips and that sub minimum

876
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: wage to equal the federal minimum wage, then the employer

877
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 1: has to make up the difference. That being said, is

878
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: unclear how often employees are reporting this and receiving the subsidization,

879
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: Nor do we know if employers are frequently checking in

880
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: with their workers to make sure they did make enough

881
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: around the holidays, you should probably think about tipping your

882
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: super or building staff. But if that's a lot for

883
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 1: you, you can always do a little less and share things

884
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: like baked goods and a personalized note to acknowledge the

885
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: relationship and show your gratitude for them. If you're really

886
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: struggling to figure out whether or not you should be, tipping,

887
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: ten percent is a good baseline to start, and as

888
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: Stacy says, the sign of a good negotiation is if

889
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: everyone leaves a little unhappy. Don't be afraid to custom tip.

890
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: There are a lot of fees and taxes added to

891
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: bills today, especially food delivery bills. It is completely acceptable

892
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: to tip on the subtotal before all of those additional charges.

893
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: And finally, sometimes being an adult is just informing yourself

894
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: about a topic, developing a more nuanced understanding, and feeling

895
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: even more confused and conflicted on the right approach. Matt,

896
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd say this, but I now think

897
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: I would potentially consider tipping on the subtotal rather than

898
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: the total. I also feel relieved to hear that Stacy

899
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: approves of my holiday tipping practices. But Matt, what stuck

900
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: with you from this episode?

901
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: I totally agree with you, and actually I will tip

902
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 2: on the subtotal. But what I will do is carry

903
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: cash with me because the thing with me is, like

904
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 2: you know, hearing about all this stuff about sub minimum

905
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: wages and how hard people are working in inflation and

906
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: people are getting squeeze, I want to make sure that

907
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: my tip is going directly to the person who is

908
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: providing the excellent service. So cash is going to be

909
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: flowing back into my pocket very shortly, and I will

910
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: make sure that I am tipping at least twenty percent

911
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: in all of the scenarios we covered, but giving that

912
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: cash directly to the person that's helping me.

913
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, because that sub minimum wage truly.

914
00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: Blew my mind, mind blowing.

915
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: Tell the good people out there listening, what is next

916
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: on grown up Stuff How to Adult?

917
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: Next episode, we're digging into dog ownership because it turns

918
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: out having a dog is a lot more like having

919
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: a kid.

920
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: I wanted a dog for so long, Matt, like a

921
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: dog did really just call my own? But I know

922
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: that right now I don't have a life that is

923
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: conducive to.

924
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: Having a dog.

925
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: Don't yet despair, because we'll find out for sure in

926
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: two weeks on the next episode of Grown Up Stuff,

927
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: How to Adult Ed.

928
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: Remember you might not be graded in life, but it

929
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: never hurts to do your homework.

930
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 2: This is a production from Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. Our

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00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: executive producers are Molly.

932
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: Soshia and Matt still O. This episode was engineered by Matt.

933
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 2: Still Ow and written by Molly Soosha.

934
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,959
Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Sierra Spreen.

935
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: And special thanks to our teammates at Ruby Studio, including

936
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 2: Ethan Fixel, Rachel Swan Krasnoff, Amber Smith, Deborah Garrett, and

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00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 2: Andy Kelly. Four