WEBVTT - #380 Jason Flom with Keith LaMar Pt. 2 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.400 I would have gotten off easier had I killed five people. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.159 When I was presented with this deal, they say, if 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.039 you plead guilty, you'll be going to parole boar in 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.000 your early fifties. Well, I'm fifty three years old right 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.600 now and still going to parole board. I'll fix an 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.800 execution in less than six months. I would never spend 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.120 the least thirty years aside the check of five at 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.080 the beds, I went twenty years without touching my family. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.280 I've been on I don't know how many hunger strikes. 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:33.199 I would never have to go through any of that 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.080 had I played guilty through these crimes I didn't commit, 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.880 or had I actually killed five people. But if I 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.120 play guilty the murder even one a time, with the 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.199 time on work, that's a hell of a deal for 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.400 a mass murderer. But if you're still on your innocence, 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.080 they said, oh you want to try, okay, if we're 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:49.120 going to give you your trial. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:53.479 In part one of our coverage of Keith Lamark, we 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.920 heard how he was offered a sentence that would run 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.760 concurrent with the time he already had if he just 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.720 agreed to plead guilty. Five of the ten murders that 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.440 occurred during the Lucasville prison riot in nineteen ninety three. 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.679 For refusing this deal, he faced a capital murder trial. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.520 Now we'll hear how law enforcement went through many rounds 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.440 of interviews to find cooperating witnesses from the easily incentivized 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.480 prison population to support their narrative that Keith had led 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.000 or ordered other inmates to murder five men. We're going 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.280 to examine how each witness drastically changed their stories from 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.520 initial interviews to trial, what they stood to gain, as 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.800 well as how the courts allowed prosecutors to withhold a 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:40.880 vast trough of exculpatory evidence to ensure Keith Lamar's wrongful conviction. 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.880 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction and to Part two of 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.440 Keith Lamar's story. If you haven't listened to part one, 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.080 there's no time like the present. We now returned to 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.360 our interviews with Keith and his attorney, Keith and Stephan, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.440 who is heading up Keith's latest and potentially his last, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.080 appellate effort. We previously left off talking about how four 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.400 other men from two of the three factions involved in 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.960 the Lucasville prison riot, the Aryan Brotherhood and Sunny Muslims 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.880 are currently on death row along with Keith and how 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.279 it appears that the third faction, the Black Gangster Disciples, 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.560 made a deal with prosecutors Mark Pete Meyer and Seth 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.760 Tiger for cooperation in all five trials in exchange for 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.120 either leniency or all out immunity from their own actions. 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.280 It's an open secret. I mean, it was an article 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.440 that was written on the thirty of anniversary recently in 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.800 Cincinnati Inquirer. And the prosecutors Mark Mark his own record 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.919 and he said, you know, did I make the deal 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.880 with the devil? Possibly? It is possible that the guy 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.359 who maybe have blood on his hands is on the 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.520 street right now. But that was the cars that we 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.400 were dealt. You know, that's how it's just the system works. 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.600 It's first come, first servant. You know. The guy who 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.480 Mark Pete Mark was referred to in the article as 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.880 Anthony LaVale. He was the leader of the Black Disciples. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.080 Basically everything I've read, everything I've heard, you know, because 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.320 it's been thirty years, he was the one who was 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:16.400 really responsible for most of the killings, including the Guard's death. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.400 And so it appears that the leadership of the Black 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:25.560 Gangster Disciples, Anthony Lavelle, Stacy Gordon, as well as others 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.880 who were actually involved in the deaths on the block, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.560 managed to avoid accountability by supporting the narrative that laid 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.040 blame for all ten deaths on the other four men 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.120 and of course Keith. So let's talk about the investigation 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.960 led by Hamilton County prosecutors Mark Pete Meyer and Seth Tieger. 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.720 We remember their names from other wrongful convictions, including Elwood Jones, 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.480 who they were totally willing to send a death row 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.800 even though they had scientific evidence of his innocence. So 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.720 you could draw your own conclusions from that as well 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.320 as what you're about to hear now. It struck me 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.800 as odd that they were in this case because Hamilton 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.520 County is nowhere near Lucasville Prison. 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.880 Mark Pikemeyer, out of all the prosecutes in the state 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.960 of Ohio, he was hand picked because of the record 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.000 we now know he has. Because he can put you 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.360 on death row with no appetence, he could manufacture the evidence, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.599 he could withhold the evidence. This is what his office 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.719 was known for doing. So it wasn't randomly picked. He 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.240 was specifically picked because he had those deals. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:31.080 It's pretty remarkable how many interviews they conducted and how 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:36.560 uniform it is that almost all of the testifying witnesses 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:41.480 followed the same arc. Initially they were not naming Keith 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.280 Lamar or even affirmatively saying that Keith was not involved, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.000 and then over time as they gave more statements, started 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.359 saying that Keith was involved and Keith was the leader 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.520 of the Dusk squad. You know, that is suspicious to 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.240 say the least. And then almost all the witnesses to 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:06.120 some degree also received deals and have incredible credibility issues. 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.120 So let's talk about those witnesses. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:13.400 The testifying witnesses against Keith were Robert Bass, Anthony Walker, 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:20.280 Thomas Taylor, Stacy Gordon, Lewis Jones, Ricky Rutherford, and Michael Childers. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.359 Many of the witnesses were transferred to Oakwood, which was 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.040 a much more favorable facility for incarcerated people. Even the 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.680 witnesses themselves testified that the guards were catering to their needs, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.320 giving them unlimited supplies of cigarettes, unlimited supplies of the canteen, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.040 extra visitation jobs, and free range of movements. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.120 And being in this better situation together, the witnesses were 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:49.320 also able to well get their stories straight right to coordinate. 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:54.600 But more importantly, almost all of those testifying witnesses had 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.960 everything to gain. I mean, some of them had flat 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.160 out admitted to killing one or more of the victims, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.680 and then they just shifted blame aunt to Keith, saying 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.120 that he made them do it. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.520 Yeah, it's pretty shocking sort of Even on the state's 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:12.840 own theory, there is stronger evidence that other people were 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.359 more directly involved in the murders of each one of 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.359 the people for whom Keith was ultimately convicted of killing. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.919 So Keith was charged with four murders from L Block, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.599 Daryl de Pina, Bruce Vittali, William Svetti, and Albert Staiano. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.400 But let's start with the one from K Block, Dennis Weaver. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.039 Keith told the story of how he was piled into 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.440 this cell on K Block with nine other guys when 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.880 a Sunni Muslim named William Bowling aka Shabaz killed a 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.120 man named Dennis Weaver, along with two others Ricky Rutherford 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.160 and Michael Childers, who ended up testifying that Keith had 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:47.240 told them to do it. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.880 We've been able to find Apple Davis from one of 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.880 the Muslims who was in the pot with William Bowley 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:57.000 after Dennis was killed, and he encouraged William Bowley to 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.599 say listen, just to say he made you do it. 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.919 They all already saying about the Aos murders. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.960 And I have that two thousand and five AFFI davit 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.760 right here from Abdul Mohammed Sadik, who said that he 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.960 had been previously threatened by Dennis Weaver. And he continued 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.720 in the affidavit talking about the time he spent in 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.280 the same cell with William Bowling in the aftermath of 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.000 the riot. Now Michael Childers was in a nearby cell 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.640 as well. Sadik said that Shabbaz admitted to killing Weaver 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.600 out of loyalty to him, a fellow Muslim whose life 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.480 had been threatened by Weaver, a non Muslim. Sadik told Bowling, 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.440 and this is a direct quote, that he should join 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.240 with Childers and blame Lamar for the order, since Lamar 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.000 was a non Muslim and he was being seen as 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.360 a ring leader for other inmate murders. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:44.880 Anyway, end quote. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.720 And William Bowler when it came time to testified this mildrau, 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.120 he refused to come right. 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.400 But Michael Childers and Ricky Rutherford did testify. Kegan, what 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:55.800 can you tell us about these two? 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.320 Yeah, So Ricky testified, I think Keith was the leader 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.880 of the desk squad, that Keith told him to tie 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.360 up Weaver and that he did it, and then Keith 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.680 told Childers to kill Weaver, which Childers did. Rutherford it 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.320 was transferred to Oakwood where they were given preferential treatment, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.360 and was charged with an aggravated murder, but the charge 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.280 was reduced to involuntary manslaughter and he received five to 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.600 twenty five years, but it was sort of intentionally meant 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.080 not to increase the time that he would serve. The 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.480 state also promised to let his cooperation be known to 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.280 the parole board, provide him with counsel for his appearance 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.560 for the parole board, and make all of the transcripts 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:34.440 available to him. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:39.600 So Rutherford admitted participating in Dennis Weaver's murder, completely remove 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.040 William Bowling from the equation, and then for the small 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.960 price of saying Keith made us do it, he received 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.240 a better prison assignment and effectively no additional sentence for 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:50.800 the murder. 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.520 In addition, Rutherford is one of a couple testifying witnesses 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:59.760 who suffered severe mental illness auditory, visual, and command hallucinations, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:01.960 but those records were never turned over to the defense. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.840 Jesus Christ. Okay, so what about Childers. 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:09.400 Michael Childers first said that other incarcerated people tied Weaver up, 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.480 and he said that he was told to kill Weaver, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.439 but when he went to do so, Weaver was already dead. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.800 Then ultimately he admitted to killing Weaver, but said that 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.040 Keith told him to do so. Again, he was charged 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.520 with murder but pled to involuntary manslaughter. Childers is another 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.120 witness who was severely mentally ill. Medical records showed that 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.480 he suffered hallucinations, and those medical records were not turned 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.720 over the defence, so the defense could not argue to 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.480 the jury that this person was not a credible witness. 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.000 And again, the mental illness was the least of the 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:44.320 credibility issues. Childers got a huge break and sentencing instead 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.240 of murder, which is a capital evense involuntary manslaughter, which 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.320 is what he was charged with in Ohio, means three 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:54.800 to eleven years. You can see that's a deal. Well, 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.440 he certainly didn't want to refuse all for the low 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.840 low price of blaming Keith for his own act, alleging 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.600 that he gave the order like some sort of prison 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.920 gang leader like Anthony the Bell or Stacy Gordon of 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.880 the Black Gangster Disciples for example. Now, Stacy Gordon actually 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.240 testified against Keith. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.960 Yeah, so Stacy Gordon was one of the shot callers 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.680 for the Black Gangster Disciples, is my understanding. He plainly 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.880 admitted to helping to plan the uprising and to killing 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:27.280 another incarcerated person, and yet was never charged for that. 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.000 He was charged with assault on a corrections officer, but 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.000 pled out and received three to five years to run 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.400 concurrent with the sentence he was already serving. So he 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:41.360 effectively sarned no time for this assault during an uprising 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.280 that he admitted to planning. 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.880 So he got no time for either the assault or 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.840 the murder. Wow, all right, So what testimony did he 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.520 give in exchange for this phenomenal sweetheart deal that. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.240 He got at trial? You know, Stacy Gordon is probably 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.440 one of the more damning witnesses, and he described Keith 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.839 as the leader of the death squad. Again, that's sort 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.880 of suspicious because other people identify Stacy Gordon as the 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.480 person doing a lot of the things that Keith Lamar 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:14.880 was ultimately pegged for doing, which was opening the cells 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.640 that the alleged snitches were caged in, which was in 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.160 everybody's narrative, including the state's narrative, the step taken to 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:26.320 lead to their executions. And it is in just direct 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.480 contradiction to sworn testimony that he gave at his own 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.200 guilty plea for the assault on the corrections officer where 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.720 he was asked if he saw Keith in L six 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:36.839 and said no. 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.360 So it sounds like he subbed Keith in for himself 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.720 in the state's narrative at Keith's trial, and then the 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.600 rest of the witnesses appear to serve that goal. A 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.920 guy named Robert Bass testified in addition to three more 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.600 men who all appeared to have been part of the 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.559 death squad, Lewis Jones, Anthony Walker, and Thomas Taylor. So 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.280 let's start with Robert Bass. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.480 For Robert Bass, in particular, he did not bring up 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.240 Keith's name on his own. The transcript shows that one 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.719 of the interviewing troopers brought up Keith's name, and then 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.240 Robert Bass started saying it back to the interviewer. And 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.560 this is like a classic example of a fed fact 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:20.240 that you know, Bass didn't actually testify to seeing anyone 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.560 assaulted or killed, but he said that Keith was in 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.280 L six, that Keith had a T shirt over his head, 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.040 but was sure it was him. He also himself admitted 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.840 to removing dead bodies from L six, but was never 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.240 charged with any crime. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.080 Pobby bad So he was somebody who I was on 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.439 speaking terms with, you know, doing a rise. He failed 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.600 down the steps. He was drunk or something knocked all 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.080 his teeth out. When he came to testify on he 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.800 had all brand new Foster teeth. I mean he looked 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.439 at twenty years younger. You know, he looked at me. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.120 He one of the guys had looked at the table one. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.920 I'm sorry he got he got released. 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.000 He got an early release, man, So he got his 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.000 teeth fixed as well as an early release in exchange 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.880 for some super vague testimony saying that your head was 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.800 covered but somehow he knew it was you. Maybe he 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.680 was trying to make himself impeachable, sounds that way, But okay, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.920 four down, three to go. Let's move on to Lewis 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.480 Jones Anthony Walker and Thomas Taylor, and we're going to 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.800 do this by going victim to victim in L Block, 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.439 Bruce Vitali, William Spatty, Albert Steano, and Darryl Depina. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.440 For Daryl Depina. You know, there were other incarcerated people 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.520 who made statements saying that Lewis Jones was the person 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:35.400 who killed Darryl Doupina. Lewis jones statements changed dramatically over time. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.440 He admitted to being a part of the Desk Squad 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.160 and listed everyone else involved, which is a sort of 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.240 rare statement for someone to give off the bat for 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.360 an incarcerated person, but he didn't name Keith. He said 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.640 that the group was led by a black Muslim, Lamar 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.560 was not a black Muslim, and then ultimately you know, 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.320 testified that Lamar was the leader of the Desk Squad. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:14:00.120 Other incarcerated people identified Jones as being involved in not 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.520 just the murder of Daryl Dipina, but Bruce Fatale. And 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.200 despite that, despite him admitting that he was a member 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.880 of the death Squad and knew everyone else involved and 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.800 being implicated in two murders, he was never charged in 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:15.880 connection with the uprising in any way. 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.920 Wow, he named everybody in the death squad in his 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.560 first interview and excluded Keith information that was hidden by 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.280 the state, and then for his testimony he was transferred 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.240 to Oakwood and was not charged for two murders, Daryl 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.359 Topina and Bruce Fatally. And I understand that another individual, 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:37.080 Aaron Jefferson, was named along with Lewis Jones for Darryldpina, 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.800 and then there were additional people named in connection with 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:41.000 Bruce Fatali's death. 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.120 Yeah, so with Bruce Fatale there is not strong and 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.200 credible evidence against Keith. However, there are other statements in 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.360 the record that two other incarcerated people who are the 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.400 actual people who killed Bruce, who were not charged with 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:53.920 this crime. 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.640 Now let's move on to the murder of William Speeddy. 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.000 A person named Eric Curdie later admitted and pled killed 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.240 to this had to give a calloquy about the details 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.200 of the murder that had to be accepted by the court, 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.840 and he specifically said that Keith was not involved. That 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.440 would seem to be pretty important exculpatory evidence that should 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.120 be a basis for Eversinis conviction, but the courts didn't 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:15.800 see it that way. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.080 And in addition to Gertie. There were court filings naming 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.360 three other individuals in Stetti's murder, Fred Frakes, Roger Snodgrass, 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.200 and Brian Escridge, yet none of those alternative suspects were 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.360 known to the jury or the defense. So moving on 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.600 to Albert Steano for this one, the last two witnesses, 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.280 Anthony Walker and Thomas Taylor kind of tag teamed this one. Yeah. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.480 Walker initially told investigators that a number of people who 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.840 participated in the beatings and murders in l Block, but 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.560 said that Keith was not present. Ultimately, however, he said 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.720 that Keith was involved, and so he just switched in 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.880 Keith for other people in his narrative and ultimately testified 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.840 that Keith was the leader of the desk squad. Keith 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.800 handed someone about and told him too, when he had 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.720 earlier said that was someone else entirely. 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.520 So this is another time Keith was specifically excluded, but 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.040 the state withheld it from the defense. And then Walker 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.160 joined the crowd, swapping in Keith for the actual assailants 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.240 in exchange for no charges for his own actions. Then 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.160 Thomas Taylor testified to receiving and using the bat that 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:16.600 Walker mentioned. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.360 So Thomas Taylor admitted to murdering Siano. He said that 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.160 he alone hit the victim over the head with the 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.120 bat repeatedly until the bat cracked, but he said that 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.840 Keith told him to and yet Taylor was able to 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.160 plead to in Terry manslaughter, while Keith received a capital 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:32.360 murder charge and conviction. 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.720 Pay were made about eight statements. In his first three 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.000 statements he was now committed. The four statement he said 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.800 he saw Keith Lamar is Stacy Gordon, he stay Gordons 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.000 and leading the death squad and being his still statement. 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.840 Stacy Gordon completely disappears from never till because State Gordon 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.880 too had now become a staate's witness. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.600 This podcast is brought to you by Ohio Justice and 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.879 Policy Center, a nonprofit law firm that seeks justice for 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:14.240 people torectly impact it by Ohio's criminal legal system. OJPC 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.439 provides free legal services to currently and formally incarcerated people. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.600 Through its Beyond Guilt Project, OJPC works to free over 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.600 punish people who have rehabilitated themselves. Ojpc's Second Chance Clinics 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.159 help individuals with criminal records remove barriers to employment and housing. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.640 Ojpc's Human Rights and Prison project represents people who face. 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:37.840 Denial of medical care. 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.280 In its twenty five year history, OJPC has worked at 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.920 the policy level and won numerous victories in Ohio, including 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.240 ending juvenile life without parole and exempting seriously mentally. 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:50.520 Ill people from the death penalty. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.960 To learn more about Ohio Justice and Policy Center and 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:58.080 how you can support its mission, visit OHIOJPC dot org. 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:04.879 That's Ohio JPC dot org, Ohio Justice and Policy Center. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:06.440 We don't write people off. 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.360 They took the group of prisoners and they put them 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.760 in a private prisoner here in Ohio, and there they 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.359 went over with script mark pem eight Thanksgiving dinner with 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.040 these prisoners. They had movies, they had the free runner, 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.480 the commissary, and he's saying witnesses would carried from trial 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.600 to trial, saying the same story over and over again. 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.960 And we're talking about a riot. We're talking about people 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:40.240 being murdered with shovels and bats and knives. But it's 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.720 also this very clean group of witnesses who were standing 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.600 back watching the whole thing, going for murder to murder 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.640 according to the state. But it wasn't a neat thing. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.480 It couldn't have been anything. It was a riot. Meanwhile, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.560 you know, the boots, my clothes when I came up 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.600 the yard, all those things were burned. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.520 You can kind of see the reasoning for viewing evidence 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.640 that had been on L Block for eleven day seed 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.199 just not probative, but not so with the inmates on 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.919 the yard or in K Block. And in the state's narrative, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.440 Keith was either ordering or leading the charge on several 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.080 of these murders on L Block before returning to the yard. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.679 He didn't have a change of clothes. If he had 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.439 anything to do with his desk squad, his boots and 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.880 clothing clearly would have been covered and at least some 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:26.240 of the victims DNA. 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.719 Yeah, you would imagine you would think if I'm responsible 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.800 for the deafer five people, you would think I would 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.119 have some blood, some kind of you know, scratches on 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:35.080 my body something. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:35.480 Yeah. 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.680 The fact that they didn't save the clothing is more 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.640 and more shocking. The state took that piece of evidence, 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.960 probably the most crucial piece of evidence in this case 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:45.080 and burned it. 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.600 You know, there layers that stuff paper down, didn't this 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.480 sweaver's throat and never presented the piece of paper with 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:52.520 my DNA on it. 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.360 Yeah, the paper that you allegedly stuffed down Dennis Weaver's 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.680 throat to suffocate him. I mean that piece of alleged 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:04.560 evidence and somehow magically disappeared as well, out of twenty two. 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.320 Thousand pieces of evidence that was collected. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.040 And those weren't the only dirty tricks, right. 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.520 They took my case to Clarens and Ohio ninety six 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.199 percent white. They had paneled all white jewelry. But that 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.080 was only the beginning. They want to do this very 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.119 one way discovery. 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.200 You know, when I first read about this pre trial 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.639 discovery process, I was dumbfounded as to how this was 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.840 allowed to happen. The prosecution had amassed hundreds of interviews, 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.960 but when Keith's attorneys made the request for any exculpatory evidence, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.879 you know, saying that Keith wasn't involved, first they objected. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.879 The prosecutors objected saying, you know, it's going to be 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.199 hard to satisfy their constitutional requirement to find all of 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.400 the exculpatory material in their mountains of evidence. That's obviously 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:58.240 not an excuse. But the judge accepted that justification and 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.720 said turnover what you can. And what followed was the 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:04.600 prosecutor saying, you know, we don't want to turn over 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.359 all of the statements with the names attached, because we 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.920 think that that could put some of the incarcerated people's 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.960 safety in jeopardy. And so they got together the statements 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.000 that they deemed exculpatory, and the judge read them into 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:20.480 the record, and without the names. 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.600 Attached, there's a bit to unpack about what you just said. 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:28.919 They handed over what they deemed exculpatory and with what 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.200 we've already examined here left out some absolute fucking whoppers. 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:37.160 And then I understand the defense was given a list 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.000 of forty three names that were not matched up with 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.800 the statement summaries that the prosecution actually did provide for 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.840 the judge to read into the record. And then most 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:51.320 if not all, of those forty three men wouldn't cooperate 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:52.560 with Keith defense. 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.399 If the witness statements is are not attached to names, 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.080 so you can't cross examine the testifying witnesses and can't 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:00.840