WEBVTT - Selects: The Murder Mystery of Ötzi the Iceman

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<v Speaker 1>Hey everyone, it's Josh, your old pal, and for this

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<v Speaker 1>week's select I've chosen our episode on Utsi the Iceman,

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<v Speaker 1>from November of twenty nineteen. Utsi was discovered high in

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<v Speaker 1>the Alps by hikers in nineteen ninety one, and since

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<v Speaker 1>then he has become perhaps the world's most closely studied corpse.

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<v Speaker 1>He's not only fascinating because of the information he's brought

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<v Speaker 1>us about everyday life in the copper Age, where he

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<v Speaker 1>hails from. He's also fascinating because of what he demonstrates

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<v Speaker 1>researchers are able to do in the present today. They've

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<v Speaker 1>gone so far as to recreate his last couple of

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<v Speaker 1>days on Earth. That's how MAC researchers are today. Hope

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<v Speaker 1>you enjoy this episode because it's a great one.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's guest producer Josh over there, which makes us

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<v Speaker 1>if you should know all and.

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<v Speaker 2>Guest uh ghost host Chuck?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you a ghost now? Did you die? Now?

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<v Speaker 2>I just thought if there was two josh is in here,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel a little left out.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I see and ganged up on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I just I had no clever way to say it.

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<v Speaker 1>Ghost host, You're right about that.

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<v Speaker 2>My mouth is working today, my brain.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all right. It's been a long week already. It's

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<v Speaker 1>only Tuesday, really right? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it just me?

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's been a long week.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean today's like I know, I don't want to complain.

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<v Speaker 2>Never mind, everything's great. Hey, let me ask you something.

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<v Speaker 2>Does otsy have an um loud or not?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it's it'sy okay, rhymes with tutsy. I saw someone

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<v Speaker 1>put it. I think are good friends at Smithsonian Magazine.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's ittsy. There's a bit of an R in there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like ittsy all right, like Tutsy Rollsy the

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<v Speaker 1>Dead Mummy. It'sy.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a good one. This is exciting. I've been

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<v Speaker 2>wanting to do one on this one too.

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<v Speaker 1>I had too. But in what spurned? Spurned or spurn

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<v Speaker 1>is where you say get away and spurs like go ahead, okay, nice,

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah that makes sense because you're using your spurs spurred.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, I'm sure that's where that comes from.

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<v Speaker 1>Surely. Okay, Wow, Chuck just blew my mind? Uh what

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<v Speaker 1>spurred this was there? Let's see you made some news

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<v Speaker 1>recently because they managed to trace his last like day

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<v Speaker 1>and a half.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, really like in the past few days even.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and about fifty three hundred years ago. He had

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<v Speaker 1>the same thoughts that we had when we started this podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>He's like, it's only Tuesday, and this has been a

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<v Speaker 1>long week already, a long, deadly, bloody week.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I've been interested in this since I saw the

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<v Speaker 2>facial reconstruction photos. I was like, or's he was Jack Palance?

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Christophferson?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, dude, A little bit of both.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's like they said, mister Christophferson, please come in

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<v Speaker 1>so we can.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, now that I think about it, Christofferson and Jack

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<v Speaker 2>Palance are have some similarities. If you put a beard

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<v Speaker 2>on Jack Palance, yeah, sure, squinty eyes, yeah, I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>soundish face, Yeah, I guess I could see both. Christofferson, Man,

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<v Speaker 2>what a legend.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember, Yeah, look there's Chris Christofferson kidding, that's it'sy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's me and Bobby McGee right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly Did you see that Ken Burns documentary?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I didn't, not yet, you haven't yet. Still No,

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<v Speaker 2>I went to buy it the other day and I

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<v Speaker 2>just have not yet.

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<v Speaker 1>So good.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to buy that stuff, right, yeah, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>I just didn't know if there was a work around.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're like, oh, no, dude, here's what you do.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'll buy it. It's like sixty bucks.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, PBS gives it away for free.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you got some PBS connection?

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<v Speaker 1>No, it was on PBS for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh do you have cable or something? See, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Even think you have to have cable. Oh you mean

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<v Speaker 1>like like you just stream? Yes, you're you're up the creek.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I thought you meant no, you don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>have cable to get PBS. You just like they help

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<v Speaker 2>people in the world and exactly just beams under your eyelids.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I was thinking. You have to stand

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<v Speaker 1>there and hold like a coat hanger a certain way

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<v Speaker 1>and your TV in the other hand. Oh, sure you

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<v Speaker 1>can get PBS.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna buy it. Though it looks great.

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<v Speaker 1>Why not? It is good, and I would say I

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<v Speaker 1>would say it's worth roughly sixty dollars. It's pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, Chris Christopherson figures Big into one of the episodes, like.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not worth more than forty five, but go ahead

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<v Speaker 2>and pay.

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<v Speaker 1>That right because it goes to Kim Burn's hairdresser.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, And that's quite a collection of brushes that

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<v Speaker 2>that person has to maintain.

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<v Speaker 1>But Chris Christophferson is interviewed like today, Oh interesting, he

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<v Speaker 1>looks exactly like let's see now.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll try to get him on movie Crush because

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<v Speaker 2>he played the City Winery, which is like attached store

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<v Speaker 2>building basically, So I will try and get people from

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<v Speaker 2>over there on the basis of like are you gotta

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<v Speaker 2>do is walk over the across the parking lot?

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>His manager emailed me back and said, and this should

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<v Speaker 2>hearten you as well, said I'm actually at stuff. You

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<v Speaker 2>should know. Fan nice the manager and said, but you

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<v Speaker 2>know what, he doesn't really do interviews anymore. So maybe

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<v Speaker 2>I just got the easy the easy pass, right, But man,

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<v Speaker 2>I really wanted that one to come through to dude

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<v Speaker 2>in this office. It would have been pretty special. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm no ken Burns. No, who is ken Burns?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? That's true.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's talk. Should we take a break.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go back chuck a little bit, let's get in

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<v Speaker 1>the way back machine. It's been a little while. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to go back, and we even know exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what we're going back to. One thirty PM on September nineteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety one.

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<v Speaker 2>Whoa ninety one. I'm in college. It's a salad days.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wearing a Flavor Flave clock around my neck.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice. I was a sophomore in high school. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>all I have to say about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I never wore the flavor of flaveclock. But he kind

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<v Speaker 2>to let that be. Well I should have. I was

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<v Speaker 2>not cool enough, but I was listening to Apocalypse ninety one.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I'm saying, you shouldn't have admitted that you didn't work.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I know, okay, but no one believe that. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not that cool, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Cooper made a pretty awesome one of my favorite

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<v Speaker 1>ones of all time was US as Public Enemy, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think I'm flavor flavor in it. But you look

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<v Speaker 1>like Chuck D. And Chuck D. It's a cool. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a cool photoshop of us.

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<v Speaker 2>I tried to get Chuck D on movie Crushed Too.

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<v Speaker 1>Did he play the City Winery?

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<v Speaker 2>No? But he lives in Atlanta.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I didn't know that.

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<v Speaker 2>And at least part time.

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<v Speaker 1>Boy did he say?

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't say anything because the management company out emailed

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<v Speaker 2>said we don't manage him anymore. So it was just

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<v Speaker 2>a dead end.

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<v Speaker 1>I gotcha.

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<v Speaker 2>But Chuck d if you're listening upon City Market, let's come,

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<v Speaker 2>let's talk about your favorite movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and also shout out to Chris Christophferson's manager.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, of course.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, boy, we're gonna have to go back and

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<v Speaker 1>edit all this out. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one thirty pm it September nineteenth, nineteen ninety one,

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<v Speaker 2>and we are hiking with Erica and Helmut Simon. They're German,

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<v Speaker 2>but we are hiking in the oats all Alps in Italy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, between Italy and Austria, like right on the border,

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<v Speaker 1>very close to the border, and on this peak. The

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<v Speaker 1>Simons decided that as they were descending that they would

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<v Speaker 1>take a short cut. And the shortcut took them through

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<v Speaker 1>this past pastor crevass, and in this little shallow crevass,

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<v Speaker 1>they said, oh, there's a there's a dead body, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a corpse.

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<v Speaker 2>And you were like what I was, because we are

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<v Speaker 2>there too, right yeah, And I said.

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<v Speaker 1>It's right on time, boy, right exactly, yeah, that's great.

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<v Speaker 1>So the thing is is they could they could see

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<v Speaker 1>it was a cadaver, Like they could see the corpses back,

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<v Speaker 1>back of the head, arm hanging out, and they just thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we heard that there was a hiker that was recently killed,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's probably who that is. We'll take a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of pictures and go down and tell somebody who owns

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<v Speaker 1>like the nearest line.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and on the way down, you and I are

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<v Speaker 2>going like, that was not a hiker that was recently killed.

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<v Speaker 1>No, even I knew that, Like, did you see that guy?

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<v Speaker 2>He was super old.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a mummy. The Simons are crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>And the Simons were not crazy, but I'm sure they

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<v Speaker 2>were saying the same thing. They were just out of

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<v Speaker 2>your shot.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So they they some people went up and I

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<v Speaker 1>think within a day or two they went up to

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<v Speaker 1>try to get this dead hiker who they thought was

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<v Speaker 1>a dead hiker out and they did a terrible job

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<v Speaker 1>with it. Yeah, they used ski poles to chip away

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<v Speaker 1>at the ice. They used an ice hammer to chip

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<v Speaker 1>away at the ice, damaged the body. But they think, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just like some hiker or whatever. It will be fine.

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<v Speaker 2>Put him in a wooden casket.

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<v Speaker 1>And this article makes it sound like he like the

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<v Speaker 1>whole world or everybody who knew about this body just

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was a modern hiker for you know, a while,

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<v Speaker 1>until the body came down the mountain. That's not a case.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things that when they were getting this

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<v Speaker 1>body out the accidentally excavated was a copper headed axe,

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<v Speaker 1>and word got out that there was an axe with

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<v Speaker 1>this body, and that is really weird. And it was

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<v Speaker 1>copper copper with like a wooden shaft and everything was

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<v Speaker 1>clearly a very very very old axe. And so pretty

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<v Speaker 1>quickly they realized that they were onto something.

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<v Speaker 2>Here for sure. And what they found out was this

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<v Speaker 2>body hi frozen body.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>One of my favorite Simpsons lines ever, five thousand years old.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the same like same little bit as when.

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<v Speaker 2>He goes moon Pie had time to be Abe. That

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<v Speaker 2>was Abe's buddy. What's his name?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Man, it'll come to me later, I'll say it.

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<v Speaker 1>People are screaming out there. I canture beer fill cos

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<v Speaker 1>right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh what is it?

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<v Speaker 1>I want to say, like Chauncey or Chalmers? Is not

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<v Speaker 1>that something very similar to that? Honestly? Look it up.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, I'm going to keep going. Okay, So

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<v Speaker 2>they get this body out and removed it on September

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<v Speaker 2>twenty third, ninety one, sealed it up, like you said,

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<v Speaker 2>flew it out of town in a wooden coffin to Ennsbrook,

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<v Speaker 2>the Institute of Forensic Medicine, And there was an archaeologist

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<v Speaker 2>named Conrad Spindla there who said, this body's at least

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<v Speaker 2>four thousand years old, at the very least.

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<v Speaker 1>What's abes friends name, Jasper Beery Lasper?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course. So they nicknamed them Utsy because of

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<v Speaker 2>the region of the oats, all Alps. Very cute little

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<v Speaker 2>name it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Other people call him frozen Fritz. Oh really yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>like it's the way more.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Ootsy's nice. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So in pretty short order they realized that what they

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<v Speaker 1>had just excavated in the roughest possible manner and accidentally

0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:59.480
<v Speaker 1>come upon was the corpse of a fifty three hundred

0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:01.360
<v Speaker 1>year old old body.

0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And when I said the guy said it was

0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.680
<v Speaker 2>four thousand years old, he said that was the initial,

0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:07.839
<v Speaker 2>like he's at least this.

0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Old, right, Yeah, But it turns out that after further study,

0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.040
<v Speaker 1>they figured out he was actually fifty three hundred years old. Right,

0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.720
<v Speaker 1>and that he lived in the Copper Age, which was

0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.720
<v Speaker 1>a relatively brief period in human history, but a really

0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:23.760
<v Speaker 1>important one between the Neolithic Age at the end of

0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.600
<v Speaker 1>the Neolithic Age when the first farmers started to appear,

0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.120
<v Speaker 1>and the Bronze Age, when the first what we consider

0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.920
<v Speaker 1>society and civilization in history began. Right, And we know

0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.920
<v Speaker 1>very little about this, and what these hikers had discovered

0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:43.360
<v Speaker 1>was a snapshot of life during that time because Leutze

0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.720
<v Speaker 1>appeared to have just died fell where he died.

0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 2>Or died where he fell.

0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was almost there, and leaving his belongings with him,

0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.280
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't He wasn't like a great revered figure.

0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:01.040
<v Speaker 1>He wasn't buried, he wasn't prepared. He was intact for

0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 1>fifty three hundred years on this glacier.

0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was the biggest deal because they have mummies,

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 2>and they have older mummies, but like you said, it's

0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.760
<v Speaker 2>their organs are removed. They're filled with you know, embalming

0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.560
<v Speaker 2>chemicals and things they used at the time for preservation

0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.720
<v Speaker 2>for the afterlife and all this. So this was a

0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 2>really big deal to find this body just really really

0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.400
<v Speaker 2>scarily well preserved. And when we say well preserved. It

0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't look like Chris Christofferson, but not anymore. The organs

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.719
<v Speaker 2>were there and like, didn't the red blood cells have

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 2>stiff inside.

0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Still intact. Yeah, it's the oldest intact blood sample ever taken.

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Outsi's was so and the fact that he wasn't buried

0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:52.200
<v Speaker 1>provides a snapshot. It wasn't ritualized. It was this guy

0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.160
<v Speaker 1>was just living his life and he died and happened

0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.920
<v Speaker 1>to be preserved perfectly. See, his belongings were preserved along

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 1>with them, and things that are organic can typically typically

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.960
<v Speaker 1>decay long before fifty three hundred years comes and goes.

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.199
<v Speaker 1>So his clothing made of like different types of leather

0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 1>was preserved. His his coat or cape made of woven

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:15.360
<v Speaker 1>grasses was preserved.

0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 2>It was all really cool when you look at the

0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.840
<v Speaker 2>shoes and the bear skin hat and right, it's very cool.

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Bear skin hat was another one. His toolkit was preserved.

0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 1>All of the stuff that we had like like just

0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of little hints and traces and glimpses of from

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 1>different like burial caches or just happened to find some

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 1>artifact or whatever. This was like a straight up polaroid

0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 1>picture of life in the Coppers.

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was almost like someone stumbled upon a Museum

0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>of Natural History display, but it was real, right, you.

0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Know, well put chuck. You know who would have loved

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 1>that analogy? Chris Christopher's.

0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.360
<v Speaker 2>It's not going to say either Jasper or Artsy.

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>And I don't mean would have in the fact that

0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.600
<v Speaker 1>he's dead, I mean would have had he heard it.

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>I agree, he's never going to hear this.

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:02.200
<v Speaker 2>You never know.

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 1>I'm like using reverse they call his manager right now.

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>Well you might as well. Willie Nelson will never listen

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 2>to these either, neither World Dolly Parton. Yeah, we want

0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 2>all the country legends listening.

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Ronnie millsapp will never hear this, excuse said with this, sure, okay,

0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.440
<v Speaker 1>not with us though, because he doesn't listen to stuff,

0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>you should know it never will.

0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>So apparently where see actually fell was pretty lucky because

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 2>it was in a very shallow crevass, and the fact

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 2>that that was kind of walled up on both sides

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>of him kept him. If he was just out in

0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 2>the open, the freeze thought cycle over the years would

0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.920
<v Speaker 2>have washed everything away and ripped him apart. And it

0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't happen because he kind of fell in this crevass,

0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.600
<v Speaker 2>all five to two one hundred and thirty four pounds

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:50.040
<v Speaker 2>of him.

0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is one hundred and fifty eight centimeters and

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 1>sixty one kilograms.

0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 2>That's right. He had brown eyes. Apparently at five to

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 2>two was even a little short for the time. But

0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.360
<v Speaker 2>he was RiPP Yeah. He was pretty sturdy, you know,

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 2>in his mid forties, like we said, and really strong legs.

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 2>And you know, kind of the fun thing about this

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 2>is the archaeological forensics of trying to piece together like

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 2>what was he doing, how did he die? We'll get

0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 2>to all that, but just the fact that, like he

0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.440
<v Speaker 2>had big legs. They were like this guy, he's probably

0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 2>goat hurt her. He's walking up and down these mountains

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 2>all the time, right, look at those calves.

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he looked like that guy from that one Liberty

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Mutual commercial. I don't know what you mean, It doesn't matter.

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Like ten people just laughed.

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 2>What else did he had? He had a dagger, He

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.040
<v Speaker 2>had that axe you were talking about. The dagger, had

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 2>a wicker sheath. He had a backpack. He had a

0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 2>leather pouch.

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The backpack, by the way, we'll never know how

0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 1>it worked because it got destroyed by the people who

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.240
<v Speaker 1>went and really dug him out of the ice.

0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 2>He had some rudimentary snow shoes. He had a belt

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>he had in a belt that matched his cape, right, yeah,

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 2>oh man, and we'll talk about that. But apparently they

0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>think that was on purpose.

0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that he was a bit of a fashionista. Yeah.

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 1>He had a couple of like vessels that were lined

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>with maple leaves that he used to carry embers from

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>place to place so he wouldn't have to start a

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 1>fire again. And all this stuff. You're like, I'm cool,

0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 1>a flint dagger, cool copper acts. Oh, some members I

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 1>think it's all cool. Yeah I do too. Yeah, but

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.640
<v Speaker 1>I can see people out there being like, uh, talk

0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 1>about math or something. Right. The thing is is like

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 1>all the stuff that seems kind of boring and superficial

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 1>has been so thoroughly studied that it's actually been used

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.400
<v Speaker 1>to paint a larger picture. Like we understand the copper

0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.640
<v Speaker 1>age in Europe way better than we did before he

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 1>was discovered, just from finding this. The few things that

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 1>he died with, yeah, and him himself.

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 2>He also interestingly had sixty one tattoos all over his body.

0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Chuck, I've been waiting for this day. What you said

0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:03.600
<v Speaker 1>tattoos correctly?

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh you mean the tattoos.

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean I shouldn't say anything.

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.360
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, and they were. They covered them from head

0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.399
<v Speaker 2>to toe in different parts, and they didn't use needles

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 2>back then obviously, but they would rub or cut the

0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.440
<v Speaker 2>skin open and then rub charcoal inside. And they're all

0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 2>They mapped them out in twenty fifteen and organized them

0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.879
<v Speaker 2>into nineteen groups, and they are basically, you know, like

0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe three identical lines, short lines like an inch long,

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.479
<v Speaker 2>or like a cross, not a spiritual religious cross, but

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:35.960
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Like a plus sign, yeah, or like a Chinese character

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:46.080
<v Speaker 1>that has some inspirational association, right, perseverance or something.

0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.159
<v Speaker 2>You get a lower back tattoo of a thorny branch.

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.280
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, they mapped these all out and for a

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 2>while they thought, and some people still think, because they

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.200
<v Speaker 2>were largely found around the joints and along his back

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and he had problems, and they he basically was marked

0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 2>up where he hurt. It looks like, right, and they

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 2>thought it might have been either acup puncture points to

0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 2>mark or it might have been the acupuncture treatment itself.

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, But they do think that it had something to

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 1>do with acupuncture, which in and of itself was a

0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.359
<v Speaker 1>big revelation because they thought up to that point that

0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.239
<v Speaker 1>acupuncture had been invented two thousand years after Utzy and

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.720
<v Speaker 1>way further east in Asia.

0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Right, But now they think that may not have been

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 2>the case because they found a new cluster of tattoos

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>on his chest that they didn't formally recognize, and they

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 2>were like, there are no acupuncture points there, and he

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't have any injuries there. So now they didn't throw

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 2>it out with the bathwater. But there are people now

0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:49.679
<v Speaker 2>they're saying like, we don't know if that's true or not.

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.919
<v Speaker 1>No, Okay, So I'm really glad you said that. Everything

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 1>that we know about Utzi, aside from the fact that

0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.680
<v Speaker 1>he is dead, yeah, that we have a pretty good

0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.080
<v Speaker 1>idea of when he lived, probably what heightweight was, stuff

0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.400
<v Speaker 1>like that. Everything else is interpretation.

0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Sure, so you.

0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Have to remember that interpretation super educated and usually displaying

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:18.960
<v Speaker 1>the current understanding of history or interpretation of history or events,

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 1>but it is still interpretation. That's part of archaeology, anthropology,

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.120
<v Speaker 1>and history, especially when you're talking about prehistory. Is he

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.000
<v Speaker 1>lived during a time before anybody wrote anything down or

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.640
<v Speaker 1>recorded anything, which makes it prehistoric. But you just bear

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 1>that in mind that everything we're talking about and everything

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.439
<v Speaker 1>you go read about Otsie is very much described in

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>absolute terms, but it is our picture and image of him.

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>How he lived, how he died has really shaped and

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 1>shifted over the years since he was discovered, and it

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.400
<v Speaker 1>still is. It's still malleable. Nothing is definitive, nothing said

0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:55.800
<v Speaker 1>in nice.

0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's take a break. It's a bad joke.

0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:23.280
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk about uh Ertsy's health, right for this. Was

0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:24.200
<v Speaker 2>he healthy?

0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:26.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean he was.

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.720
<v Speaker 2>No, he was a person of age in his mid

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 2>forties of a time where at that age he's going

0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>to be pretty beat up.

0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he wasn't unhealthy in like the modern sense where

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.560
<v Speaker 1>he's like deliberately wrecking his health because he's eating too

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.440
<v Speaker 1>much junk food or something like you know me. Yeah,

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 1>but he was unhealthy in the way that a person

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 1>would be unhealthy from living close to the land at

0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.000
<v Speaker 1>a time before medicine had really developed.

0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, no doctors, no dentists. So as you would imagine,

0:20:54.359 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 2>he had gum disease, heart disease, lime disease, gall bladderstone,

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:02.400
<v Speaker 2>hardened arteries, gallstones.

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the disorder is so nice. We named it twice.

0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, he had a whipworm parasite in his gut, He

0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.200
<v Speaker 2>had h pylori in his gut, and all of this

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.600
<v Speaker 2>is to say, like you said, he was probably a

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty normal dude of the mid forties of the time.

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.640
<v Speaker 2>They couldn't find his stomach for a long time. It's

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.880
<v Speaker 2>amazing how much of the stuff like it was found

0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 2>over the years, Like this tattoo. This new tattoo was

0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.200
<v Speaker 2>just found a few years ago. Yeah, after like many

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 2>many years of study.

0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 1>His birthmark that looks like Abraham Lincoln eluded people for decades.

0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:39.960
<v Speaker 2>But they couldn't even find his stomach and then finally

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.360
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, here it is. Twenty years later, they

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.960
<v Speaker 2>found it wedged up between his ribs and his lungs.

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, then they found it because they noticed he had gallstones,

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.399
<v Speaker 1>so they basically traced a path from the gallbladder to

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 1>the stomach and said, there it is. We found it.

0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.120
<v Speaker 1>And they were really happy they found it because when

0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.199
<v Speaker 1>they started to dissect did or take samples from it,

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.439
<v Speaker 1>they found that it was full. Yeah, he died like

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.840
<v Speaker 1>within an hour or so of eating his last meal

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.639
<v Speaker 1>and hadn't digested it. He had food in his in

0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 1>his colon, he had food in his intestines.

0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:17.800
<v Speaker 2>He had a turtle head peeking out right, that's awesome.

0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:22.480
<v Speaker 2>What his last meal was dried ibex and deer meat

0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.440
<v Speaker 2>with ink horn wheat.

0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and slow plums. I don't know why that wasn't mentioned.

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.520
<v Speaker 2>He can get that same meal in Brooklyn.

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Served you by a guy with a waxed mustache and

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.600
<v Speaker 1>like some sort of armband, an arm garter. So yeah,

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:40.600
<v Speaker 1>an arm garter. That's it. That's it, isn't it.

0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's it.

0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.560
<v Speaker 1>So he ate they think some sort of like fatty

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.320
<v Speaker 1>cured meat, kind of like a bacon, a cured bacon today.

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.080
<v Speaker 1>And the iron ike horn wheat was from bread. And

0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.680
<v Speaker 1>he also ate slow plums, gotcha? Okay?

0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Slow plums?

0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that they make slow gin from? Oh really, which

0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:00.719
<v Speaker 1>I've never had, have you?

0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:02.120
<v Speaker 2>That's sloe right?

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, It's like supposedly a very tart, kind of

0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 1>bitterish plum, but it was it's like load of vitamins.

0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:12.840
<v Speaker 2>I've never had it. And remember it seemed like an

0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 2>old person. Drink was a slow jin fizz.

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Like an old person who's like one hundred and fifty

0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:17.800
<v Speaker 1>years old.

0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, when I lived in Arizona, there were all the

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.560
<v Speaker 2>snowbirds were down there. They drink like slowjin fizzs.

0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Really, I've never been present when somebody ordered a slow

0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:27.639
<v Speaker 1>gin fizz. Yeah, I would like to try one. So

0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.440
<v Speaker 1>sure I try one. Okay, Josh, go.

0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Get a couple of slow gin phizzies.

0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:33.639
<v Speaker 1>Stat make it a double.

0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>I guarantee you there's a bar in this dumb building

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:37.640
<v Speaker 2>that has slow jin pzzis on the venue.

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Sure you know with arm guards? Can I keep the

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:43.160
<v Speaker 1>arm guard comes with a drink.

0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>So let's talk a little bit more about the copper Age.

0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I guess he had. Well, what we'll save his injuries

0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 2>for a minute here, Okay, we'll talk about a little

0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.359
<v Speaker 2>about his lifestyle in the copper Age. Like you said,

0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.439
<v Speaker 2>he was, as demonstrated by his meals, he looked a

0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty like farmy pleasant life down there, it seems like,

0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:12.359
<v Speaker 2>but not one without conflict, you know.

0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Sure, based on his meals, well.

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Based on his meals, he lived a farming type lifestyle.

0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.119
<v Speaker 2>But based on injuries we're going to talk about it

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.240
<v Speaker 2>seems like that, you know, he had some enemies.

0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 1>So from what I saw, and I mean, we used

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different articles, but National Geographic is very

0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>well represented in here Live Sciencehistory dot com, the BBC.

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:39.399
<v Speaker 1>I came across something from the Penn Pennsylvania, the Penn

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:42.760
<v Speaker 1>Museum or U Penn Museum. I think they have a

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:45.879
<v Speaker 1>magazine called Expedition that was pretty awesome, had a pretty

0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.160
<v Speaker 1>great thing. And I saw a couple of things from

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 1>historians that wrote up basically descriptions of Utsy and thought

0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:56.720
<v Speaker 1>co which is just a surprising great resource.

0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, have you ever noticed, yes, yep.

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:04.440
<v Speaker 1>So in one of these I saw that it was

0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of put like he lived as a farmer and

0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:14.200
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed like the fruits of village life too, so things

0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:17.720
<v Speaker 1>like cheese and processed grains and cereals, so bread and

0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:21.920
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. And the idea is that he didn't

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 1>know how to bake bread or make cheese. He was

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 1>part of a village or a society where somebody knew

0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:30.880
<v Speaker 1>how to bake bread and somebody knew how to make cheese,

0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:33.760
<v Speaker 1>so the professions were starting to emerge. But that he

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 1>also was pastoral and that like he herded sheep and

0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:40.879
<v Speaker 1>that's probably what he did most of it most of

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.320
<v Speaker 1>the time. And then he also lived very close to

0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:48.040
<v Speaker 1>the earth the land as well, Like his last meal

0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 1>was wild game ibecs and deer and slow plums that

0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.760
<v Speaker 1>he probably plucked himself. So he was kind of like

0:25:55.840 --> 0:26:01.879
<v Speaker 1>this transitional human from the hunter gather are passed into

0:26:02.000 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 1>the agrarian, agriculture based future that spread out just ahead

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of them.

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like just ahead of them were like real deal

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 2>Italians out there. Yeah, bacon bagets.

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that's French.

0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what I mean Italian bread?

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, in Italy they just call him bread.

0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:24.199
<v Speaker 2>That's right. They I mentioned earlier that his clothes matched

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:26.600
<v Speaker 2>and they do think, and of course again this is

0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:31.520
<v Speaker 2>all speculation, but these garments were pretty refined, even when

0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 2>you look at him now, like he had these fur

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 2>skin leggings that were held up by suspenders.

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:38.680
<v Speaker 1>By Alexander McQueen.

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, I wouldn't say that.

0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I know. That was amazing, so good.

0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.680
<v Speaker 2>And a great documentary on him too. It's good and sad.

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:52.080
<v Speaker 2>The they talk about the color of the animal skin zone,

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:57.440
<v Speaker 2>the contrasting colors they think were actually matched like elaborately,

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:00.399
<v Speaker 2>and he had, like, like you said, a sense of style,

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:05.560
<v Speaker 2>like you know, is that possible? Yeah, but I mean

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.120
<v Speaker 2>it seems like a lot to extrapolate that his coat

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:11.280
<v Speaker 2>and his belt matched, and so they were like, hey,

0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:14.080
<v Speaker 2>he had a real personal identity, whereas in it could

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:15.919
<v Speaker 2>have been just like that's the materials that he had

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:16.640
<v Speaker 2>on hand that fit.

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.400
<v Speaker 1>That's possible. But I think what they're what they would

0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:26.320
<v Speaker 1>assert is that it has enough panache. Yeah, that the

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:29.840
<v Speaker 1>chances of it just being random are very unlikely or

0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 1>less likely than it being you know, asserting his sense

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 1>of fashion.

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, and he was Italian, that's right, So you know

0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Italians in their fashion go hand in hand.

0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I love it. Everyone who's been to Millino knows that,

0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 1>or fearensy.

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I remember when I was touring Europe as a youth,

0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:50.600
<v Speaker 2>my friend and I laughing at the Italian guys and

0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:53.679
<v Speaker 2>the hostels were like, these nineteen year old dudes were

0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:56.120
<v Speaker 2>so put together and like would spend so much time

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:58.880
<v Speaker 2>in the mirror, wearing the cologne and getting their hair

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:02.280
<v Speaker 2>just perfect. Yeah, we are just disgusting humans. Sure, and

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 2>they got the girls, so yeah, it turns out that

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 2>they were onto something.

0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:08.720
<v Speaker 1>A little bit of extraff really does it and the

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:09.200
<v Speaker 1>big hair.

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were great guys. So we met some cool

0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Italian dudes.

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 1>One of the other things too, though, that the fact

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 1>that he clearly was involved in a village. They think

0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:21.239
<v Speaker 1>that he was associated with a particular village to the

0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:27.520
<v Speaker 1>south in a valley near the mountains. It was things

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:30.679
<v Speaker 1>like bread and cheese that they think they found in

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 1>his body. But also the fact that he did not

0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 1>He obviously didn't know how to make his own tools.

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Somebody else had. He probably did not know how to

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:45.760
<v Speaker 1>weave the cape he was wearing. Somebody else had done that.

0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they all had their specialties. Yeah.

0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:51.480
<v Speaker 1>The tattoos, he couldn't have put some of them on

0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:53.880
<v Speaker 1>his own body. He probably went to see a medical

0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 1>practitioner to do that. So, yeah, this is at a

0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:01.440
<v Speaker 1>point when specialists and specialized professians are starting to emerge.

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a really cool time.

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this is these are the things that we've

0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:07.959
<v Speaker 1>learned from, you know, that we've gleaned from the stuff

0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 1>that we found with him. I think it's just astoundingly fascinating.

0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really cool. This is a really interesting period

0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I think of human development.

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 1>It's also called, by the way, the copper age or

0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:24.640
<v Speaker 1>the chalcolithic I like copper age. I do too, Chalcolithic

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:27.960
<v Speaker 1>just kind of coughs out of the mouth, isn't it.

0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So we'll talk a little bit about what might

0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 2>have happened to Utsy and how he found himself dead

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>on that mountain, because there are quite a few theories

0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:39.160
<v Speaker 2>over the years, and like you said, even this week

0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:43.680
<v Speaker 2>they have some more leads. But he was wounded. He

0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:46.239
<v Speaker 2>had a really bad wound on his right hand. They

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.320
<v Speaker 2>found out he was right handed too, so this is

0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:51.480
<v Speaker 2>a big deal between his thumb and his forefinger there.

0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:53.560
<v Speaker 2>That area went all the way down to the bone.

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:56.360
<v Speaker 2>But it looks like it had healed up a little bit,

0:29:57.560 --> 0:29:59.920
<v Speaker 2>so it probably happened, they said, within a few days

0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>when he died, but it was healing. But it was

0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:05.800
<v Speaker 2>a big injury, like we said, because he was right handed,

0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 2>But it's not the kind of thing that killed him,

0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Like he didn't bleed out from that or anything like that.

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:14.640
<v Speaker 1>No, huh. So it makes you think, well, what did

0:30:14.720 --> 0:30:15.320
<v Speaker 1>kill him then?

0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, they think that might have been from a fight.

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps that wound.

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:24.680
<v Speaker 1>That has been almost universally agreed upon from the outset

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>right that he probably didn't inflict that wound himself. That

0:30:28.280 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 1>it seems to have been a defensive wound. There's a

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:34.000
<v Speaker 1>guy named Alexander Horn who's an inspector with the Munich Police,

0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and so we should give just a little background for

0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.960
<v Speaker 1>a second. When Utsi was found, he was taken into

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Germany down the mountain into Austria Innsbruck. Austria and the

0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Germans were heavily involved as well as the Austrians and

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:50.120
<v Speaker 1>the Italians were less involved, and that's where he kind

0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.680
<v Speaker 1>of stayed for the first few years, I think about

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>a decade or less after he was discovered. And then

0:30:56.440 --> 0:31:00.280
<v Speaker 1>eventually he was transferred to Italy, the Italian side.

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because they were like, he's a founder on our side. Yeah,

0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:05.120
<v Speaker 2>like it just to barely I think.

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Also, I don't know if this contributed to her if

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:09.560
<v Speaker 1>it came later, but he does seem to have been

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.640
<v Speaker 1>linked to the Italian side, where like you said, he

0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:17.000
<v Speaker 1>was an Italian, right, So he was transferred to Italy

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:20.240
<v Speaker 1>and when they took custody of him, man they pulled

0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:23.480
<v Speaker 1>out all the stops. They put him up in Balzano, Italy,

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 1>near about I think like thirty miles or something from

0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 1>where he was found. They built a museum specifically for him,

0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:36.000
<v Speaker 1>an institute built around studying him, and they proceeded to

0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>study him more than any other mummy has ever been studied,

0:31:40.000 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 1>probably any other body than has ever been studied in

0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 1>the history of the world. Yeah, for sure, and have

0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:48.120
<v Speaker 1>just churned out paper after paper after paper based on

0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:52.320
<v Speaker 1>their findings from him. So but at first, some of

0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:55.120
<v Speaker 1>the ideas that we have about what happened to him

0:31:55.160 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 1>come from the earliest interpretations posed by the Germans in

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.800
<v Speaker 1>the Austrians when they had custody of Vizzi.

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Right, which weren't necessarily right, as it turns out, no, but.

0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:09.120
<v Speaker 1>Some may have been. But my ultimate point was everybody

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.680
<v Speaker 1>says from the outset that he wound the wound in

0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:17.440
<v Speaker 1>his hand was a defensive wound that came from close

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:18.960
<v Speaker 1>combat with somebody else.

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:21.360
<v Speaker 2>That's right. For a while they thought there was an

0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Austrian archaeologist named Conrad Spindler that I mentioned earlier that

0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 2>they sort of recreated the scene, and their contention early

0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:30.880
<v Speaker 2>on was like man that acts is leaning up against

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the rock, it's propped up there, like we think everything

0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 2>is literally frozen in time from how it was. And

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:40.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that's one of the things that they've later refuted, right,

0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:42.360
<v Speaker 2>and they said that it looks like things might have

0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:43.080
<v Speaker 2>moved around some.

0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they think that the what would you call it,

0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 1>the site I guess from the freeze thaw cycle just

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of distributed, redistributed the stuff.

0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which you know, it's still all valid, but not

0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:59.160
<v Speaker 2>necessarily it was not necessarily exactly as it was at

0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:03.120
<v Speaker 2>his moment of death. Indeed, they did find his hat though,

0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.720
<v Speaker 2>off of his head, as if it just like kind

0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>of fell off of his head, which might have been true.

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Right. So some of those early stuff, they also found

0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 1>what they thought were fractured ribs that had not healed. Right,

0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:19.160
<v Speaker 1>So the earliest picture was this like they treated it

0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>like this is a dead body mystery. Where did this

0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 1>dead body come from? How did he die?

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Well quickly though, they also found pollen in his

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:30.160
<v Speaker 2>gut that they thought came from an autumn plant, so

0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:32.520
<v Speaker 2>they were like, he died in the fall, right, Okay,

0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:36.120
<v Speaker 2>so that's the full setup of the bad information.

0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:40.160
<v Speaker 1>So the first idea, and I think it was Spindler

0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 1>who came up with the disaster theory, was I think

0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:46.800
<v Speaker 1>so Conrad Spindler said, Okay, here's what happened to outsy

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>he came down from the mountain, probably hurting some sheep

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 1>or goats in the fall, went down to his village

0:33:54.920 --> 0:33:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and gotten an altercation with somebody, cut his hand.

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 2>You're looking at my wife, right, that kind of thing.

0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:07.120
<v Speaker 1>That's nice, and he fled or oh, and part of

0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:10.520
<v Speaker 1>the altercation also resulted in some cracked ribs, right, and

0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:14.720
<v Speaker 1>either fled or laughter escaped up the mountain again where

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:19.000
<v Speaker 1>he became exhausted from his cracked ribs and his cut hand,

0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 1>and he laid down or fell into this little shallow

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:28.279
<v Speaker 1>crevasse and died of exposure to hypothermia. That was the

0:34:28.360 --> 0:34:31.279
<v Speaker 1>disaster theory, and that was that, you know, I mean

0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:33.279
<v Speaker 1>they had that for a few years, and somebody came

0:34:33.320 --> 0:34:34.759
<v Speaker 1>along and said, I don't think that's right.

0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:38.920
<v Speaker 2>That's right, because they found out some of the things,

0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 2>like the site had melted some and then things were

0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 2>in different positions they originally thought. Probably they examined the

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:49.520
<v Speaker 2>ribs again and said they were actually not fractured before

0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 2>he died.

0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:51.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that they were just a little bent.

0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, from like after his death.

0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Probably from the push of ice, the pressure from ice

0:34:56.719 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 1>feezing on him.

0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Again exactly'll that'll crack your ribs in a second, or

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:01.160
<v Speaker 2>binga ribs.

0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:03.440
<v Speaker 1>The big one, though, was what they found in the

0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:04.880
<v Speaker 1>X ray in two thousand and one.

0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Right, you know what they found? Should we take a break?

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:11.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, all right, we'll discover what they found right

0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:12.160
<v Speaker 2>after this.

0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Where did they find Chuck?

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:39.960
<v Speaker 2>They found a freaking arrowhead lodged in his shoulder, back shoulder.

0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:44.719
<v Speaker 1>That was a verbatim quote from the press conference. This

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:45.439
<v Speaker 1>was a big deal.

0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:48.080
<v Speaker 2>They missed it for ten years, they missed the thing,

0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.240
<v Speaker 2>and they found it. Yeah, it was just a regular

0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>X ray and they said, wait a minute, that looks

0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:55.600
<v Speaker 2>denser than bone. Yeah, what is that.

0:35:56.000 --> 0:35:56.800
<v Speaker 1>It's a triangle.

0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.719
<v Speaker 2>It's a triangle. And it was a thirteen millimeter gash

0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:02.759
<v Speaker 2>along a major artery in his chest. And they're like,

0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>he bled to death up there.

0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they said, there's no way he would have survived this.

0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:11.000
<v Speaker 1>It is unhealed. This is finally what killed him. So

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:13.880
<v Speaker 1>this disaster theory that he got in an altercation but

0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:18.640
<v Speaker 1>ultimately died of exposure or hypothermia was replaced by the

0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.840
<v Speaker 1>murder theory, right, which is very similar, but there's some

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:25.960
<v Speaker 1>important nuances and differences. One, so the cracked rib thing

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:29.400
<v Speaker 1>just throw that away. It was a red herring, but

0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 1>the altercation is still the same. He comes down the mountain,

0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:36.799
<v Speaker 1>he gets in a fight of some sort, goes back

0:36:36.880 --> 0:36:41.000
<v Speaker 1>up the mountain with his cut hand, and while he's

0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:44.000
<v Speaker 1>hanging out, maybe tending to his wound, maybe trying to

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:49.400
<v Speaker 1>figure out what to do next. That's my arrow impression.

0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Message for you, sir.

0:36:50.400 --> 0:36:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, right in the back, in the back from

0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:56.799
<v Speaker 1>a distance, they think due to the penetration from the

0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:59.000
<v Speaker 1>arrowhead from about thirty meters.

0:36:59.239 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's good shot.

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Ye, that is it is a good shot because it

0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:04.279
<v Speaker 1>was a kill shot from thirty meters one hundred and

0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:08.719
<v Speaker 1>fifty feet. That's a waste. Yeah, I can't quite put

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.160
<v Speaker 1>it into an easy analogy, but that's a long that's

0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:14.160
<v Speaker 1>a long way. Yeah. And the fact that it was

0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:16.279
<v Speaker 1>in the back. He never saw it coming and it

0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:17.680
<v Speaker 1>would have killed him pretty quickly.

0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 2>It was a punk move, is what it was. It was.

0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:26.239
<v Speaker 1>Here's the thing, because his possessions were left intact and

0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:27.920
<v Speaker 1>because he had that defensive wound.

0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:29.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they think that this was.

0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 1>The result of his death, as murder was the result

0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:35.239
<v Speaker 1>of a personal conflict. There was no theft involved or

0:37:35.320 --> 0:37:38.399
<v Speaker 1>anything like that, right, because his copper axe alone would

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 1>have been pretty valuable at the time that somebody would

0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 1>have taken it had they killed him for something like robbery.

0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this was a vendetta, yes, or it released

0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:51.239
<v Speaker 2>a personal fight that happened that day, yeah, or maybe

0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:52.919
<v Speaker 2>a long standing feud. There's no way to tell.

0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Here. We reached the point where the historians and the

0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:58.400
<v Speaker 1>archaeologists are like, we really can't say, but here are

0:37:58.440 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 1>some ideas.

0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah.

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:05.759
<v Speaker 1>For me, it's either the person who he fought came

0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:09.399
<v Speaker 1>back for revenge. I think, and this is a total guest,

0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:11.160
<v Speaker 1>but I was trained in history, so I'm allowed to

0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:11.400
<v Speaker 1>do that.

0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Sure he was trained in history.

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:16.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was. I studied history in college. That's what

0:38:16.880 --> 0:38:20.000
<v Speaker 1>they call it. They're like, this is how you do it,

0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:25.000
<v Speaker 1>trained history camp. Right. He was successful in that hand

0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:28.400
<v Speaker 1>to hand combat and killed the other person. Whether it

0:38:28.520 --> 0:38:31.839
<v Speaker 1>was offensive or defensive. I like to think it was defensive.

0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:35.640
<v Speaker 1>He didn't have a choice. But the person's family came

0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:39.160
<v Speaker 1>back and killed him up on the mountain, gotcha. That's

0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.600
<v Speaker 1>the current idea. Well, not that last part that it

0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 1>was his family, but what I said leading up to that,

0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:48.239
<v Speaker 1>everything about that, everything else about that I'm really sorry,

0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Chris Christofferson. That's the current idea of what happened to it.

0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:57.040
<v Speaker 2>I think. So you're not going with my jealous lover theory.

0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:00.560
<v Speaker 1>No, okay, no, I'm not all right.

0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I think it was a woman with that arrow.

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:05.399
<v Speaker 1>You think the woman a woman shot him?

0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:08.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, jealous lover. I think he was stepping out and

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:10.439
<v Speaker 2>he was like holding up his hands like baby, baby,

0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:15.279
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't me. And she slices them with the her

0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 2>implement of choice and then dice ism with the era

0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:22.839
<v Speaker 2>and then he's like, this is getting too serious. You're crazy,

0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:24.759
<v Speaker 2>and so he heads up the mountains and she's like,

0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:27.919
<v Speaker 2>I'll show you crazy. She turns into close, she goes

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and forges an arrow, and then in that time it

0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:37.160
<v Speaker 2>took her to forge that arrow from hardened molten you know, flint.

0:39:37.200 --> 0:39:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Flint shirt chirt.

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:41.400
<v Speaker 2>He's up that hill a little bit and she's like,

0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.439
<v Speaker 2>no problem, watch this right in the back.

0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I like that one too, all right. I'm going with family, family,

0:39:49.080 --> 0:39:51.920
<v Speaker 1>because I mean, yeah, you know the rule, can't trust family,

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:52.760
<v Speaker 1>trust family.

0:39:54.000 --> 0:40:00.239
<v Speaker 2>So, speaking of that chirt, he did not have he

0:40:00.280 --> 0:40:01.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't have blanks.

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this is evidence that he didn't know how

0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:06.840
<v Speaker 1>to create his own tools.

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, somebody applicate these tools, which apparently were sort of

0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:10.719
<v Speaker 2>on their last legs.

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was another thing too, So he did not

0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:17.640
<v Speaker 1>have what he needed. Like imagine if you had if

0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:23.960
<v Speaker 1>you had like a a tool an X no, a knife, okay,

0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:27.399
<v Speaker 1>and it's made a flint and you use it over

0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:29.359
<v Speaker 1>and over and over again, it's gonna get worn down

0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:32.440
<v Speaker 1>and eventually it's gonna get so worn down that you

0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:35.160
<v Speaker 1>just can't use it anymore. This is essentially the state

0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.480
<v Speaker 1>of his arrowheads and his knife and some of his

0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:41.680
<v Speaker 1>other his stone tools. In particular, that he was not

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.800
<v Speaker 1>in a position to defend himself with his own tools

0:40:44.800 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 1>because he'd used them up.

0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:49.400
<v Speaker 2>And I wonder if if he's not making these in

0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:53.880
<v Speaker 2>the village, if they're like Ertsy's, you know, he's have

0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:56.600
<v Speaker 2>you guys noticed he's on the way out, Like, we're

0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:59.080
<v Speaker 2>not going to be making any more tools for Artsy, right, yeah,

0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I can. We don't have He'll just make do with

0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 2>what he's got.

0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:10.840
<v Speaker 1>It's a but he owes me money.

0:41:07.280 --> 0:41:10.360
<v Speaker 2>So should we talk about moss. This was astounding to

0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:12.680
<v Speaker 2>me that this happened in the last few days, because

0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:14.800
<v Speaker 2>did you pick this out before this happened, or was

0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 2>it serenigity?

0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:17.839
<v Speaker 1>This is what I saw that it made me say

0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:18.399
<v Speaker 1>it's time.

0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I got you. So researchers found these moth spores

0:41:24.680 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 2>that were inside of him, that he'd ingested, and just

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:31.279
<v Speaker 2>on him and around him. M hm. Seventy percent of

0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:35.879
<v Speaker 2>the seventy five species of these mosses and liverwarts were

0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:39.759
<v Speaker 2>not local. And they basically said, there's no way these

0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:41.680
<v Speaker 2>would have been on the side of the mountain if

0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:42.480
<v Speaker 2>not for him.

0:41:42.600 --> 0:41:44.879
<v Speaker 1>Right like a bird couldn't have transported it this far

0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:47.600
<v Speaker 1>or something like that, like the UTSI brought these up here.

0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:51.880
<v Speaker 1>And so in doing that and tracing like these mosses

0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.000
<v Speaker 1>and spores and everything, they have a big clue. They've

0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:58.440
<v Speaker 1>been able to retrace his steps that last basically thirty

0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:00.760
<v Speaker 1>three hours of his life, the last day and a half,

0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:03.440
<v Speaker 1>and it was not a great day and a half

0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:06.399
<v Speaker 1>for him. He had his hand wound. By now, by

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:08.880
<v Speaker 1>the time we're coming in here, he's already got his

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:11.920
<v Speaker 1>hand wound. It's got to be smarting. And it's a

0:42:11.960 --> 0:42:14.520
<v Speaker 1>real problem for him too, because even if he could

0:42:14.520 --> 0:42:18.440
<v Speaker 1>make tools, he would have been really troubled to do

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:22.080
<v Speaker 1>anything because he was right handed and that's where his wound,

0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:25.080
<v Speaker 1>almost down to the bone was was in his right hand. Yeah,

0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:27.080
<v Speaker 1>so that's a big problem for him right there.

0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So what they found in this lower colon, which

0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:33.080
<v Speaker 2>would have been the last I'm sorry, the oldest stuff

0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:35.759
<v Speaker 2>that he had eaten that has not yet been the

0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:39.120
<v Speaker 2>turtle head yet, not turtle headed yet or I guess

0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:43.960
<v Speaker 2>currently turtle headed. Yeah, were pine and spruce pollen, so

0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:45.680
<v Speaker 2>they said, And it's kind of neat. That's what I

0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:49.719
<v Speaker 2>love about this, like historical forensics, like, oh, well, we

0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:51.600
<v Speaker 2>know what was in his body, and we know where

0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:55.120
<v Speaker 2>that stuff is. It's not at certain altitudes. It was

0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:58.960
<v Speaker 2>a high altitude for us, around eighty two hundred feet

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:01.360
<v Speaker 2>and they know because of where it was in his body.

0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:04.000
<v Speaker 2>This is thirty three hours before he died. But the

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:07.839
<v Speaker 2>middle tract of his colon, that's where all the secrets are.

0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:11.000
<v Speaker 2>In the colon. Yeah, you know, it had pollen from

0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:15.799
<v Speaker 2>hop hornbeam and that's stuff from lower altitudes.

0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:20.239
<v Speaker 1>It's from lower altitude. But also it grows only in

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:24.000
<v Speaker 1>the spring and summer. It decays very quickly, so it's

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.359
<v Speaker 1>not something that you would preserve and keep for the

0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:27.200
<v Speaker 1>fall or the winter.

0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Throw out the autumn theory.

0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.640
<v Speaker 1>Yep, So they say he definitely died in the summer,

0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:34.440
<v Speaker 1>right and spring.

0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess that means that he probably descended maybe all

0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:41.640
<v Speaker 2>the way to the bottom of the valley within twelve hours,

0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:44.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe nine to twelve hours of his death, and then

0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:45.560
<v Speaker 2>all the way back up again.

0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Right where he was found dead. And they figured all

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:50.200
<v Speaker 1>this out. They retraced all this just from those spores

0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:50.880
<v Speaker 1>and mosses.

0:43:51.040 --> 0:43:51.919
<v Speaker 2>Amazing, they think.

0:43:52.040 --> 0:43:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Maybe so he's down in the valley to begin with,

0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:59.080
<v Speaker 1>or in the village, gets that hand wound, flees up

0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:01.960
<v Speaker 1>to the tree line, and then they think.

0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Because he's like the little lady always needs a few

0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:04.400
<v Speaker 2>days to cool off.

0:44:04.520 --> 0:44:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, Oh man, you're gonna get some meal for that one.

0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:12.040
<v Speaker 1>I rechecked my right by the way. So and then

0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:14.759
<v Speaker 1>he goes back down, they think, to get some mosses

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.440
<v Speaker 1>because they have anti bacterial properties.

0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can also wrap meat in it, right apparently.

0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:23.040
<v Speaker 1>To I guess, keep it or whatever. But also they

0:44:23.040 --> 0:44:25.040
<v Speaker 1>may he may have wrapped his hand in it or

0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:26.120
<v Speaker 1>something as well.

0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Or maybe when he saw a doctor.

0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:30.759
<v Speaker 1>Maybe then he goes back up to the tree to

0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:33.200
<v Speaker 1>above the tree line where he dies at about ten

0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:36.120
<v Speaker 1>five hundred feet. That's along the way he had that

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:40.280
<v Speaker 1>last meal of ibis and deer and bread and slow plums.

0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:41.719
<v Speaker 2>Pretty good meal, not bad.

0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:46.000
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if he was panicked, if he knew like,

0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm in a bad way because of this cut on

0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:52.160
<v Speaker 1>my hand, and my tools and arrow heads are not

0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:53.480
<v Speaker 1>in good shape.

0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:55.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, because it's interesting you only know that

0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:58.799
<v Speaker 2>stuff from seeing it at that point in history, Like

0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:01.920
<v Speaker 2>it would have been like, boy, I've seen that kind

0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:05.040
<v Speaker 2>of wound before on oh yeah, tuck, tuck, And yeah,

0:45:05.040 --> 0:45:06.000
<v Speaker 2>he did not last long.

0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:08.879
<v Speaker 1>But if you've thought somebody was coming after you, and

0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:12.000
<v Speaker 1>you knew that your arrowhead was useless and your knife

0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 1>was like dull and your your stab in hand was

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:19.480
<v Speaker 1>cut to the bone, right, you probably wouldn't have had

0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:20.680
<v Speaker 1>to have seen that before to be.

0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Like, uh probably so well, he was in full retreat

0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:24.960
<v Speaker 2>from what it looks like, right, Yeah, I mean that's

0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:25.759
<v Speaker 2>why he was going up.

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:28.000
<v Speaker 1>That Mountain's that's what most people guess.

0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he was probably scared.

0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:33.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is sad, but that's how he spent this

0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:35.279
<v Speaker 1>last day and a half kind of on the run

0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 1>up and down the mountain, which is pretty impressive that

0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:39.640
<v Speaker 1>he was able to make. You know, he went up

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:41.479
<v Speaker 1>and down the mountain, don't for sure. He was wearing

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:43.360
<v Speaker 1>moccas and stuff with grass.

0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:44.840
<v Speaker 2>And he was old for the time.

0:45:44.680 --> 0:45:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Sure, and he had ginger vitis.

0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:51.279
<v Speaker 2>Kind of a neat thing is they have found they

0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:53.800
<v Speaker 2>found some weird markers on his male sex chromosomes and

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:57.840
<v Speaker 2>they've actually traced some genetic relatives at least nineteen people

0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:00.359
<v Speaker 2>living today, yeah in Austria or.

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Not married but related to Utsy.

0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Pretty neat.

0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think so too. So check. There's another theory

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:10.080
<v Speaker 1>that says, hey, you know, your whole murder theory it's bs.

0:46:10.239 --> 0:46:14.839
<v Speaker 1>Maybe the murder part is correct, but he was murdered ritually.

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:19.400
<v Speaker 1>This isn't a vendette or anything like that. Utsie was buried.

0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Right, They think that this was a ritual burial on

0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:27.920
<v Speaker 2>top of a mountain, but he you know, it's not

0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:29.520
<v Speaker 2>the kind of Maybe they just want a group that

0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:31.319
<v Speaker 2>removed the organs and did that stuff, right.

0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So the premise of the burial theory, called the

0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:39.480
<v Speaker 1>social theory, is that he's not a snapshot of everyday life, right,

0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:42.040
<v Speaker 1>that they didn't that he would have been so heavily

0:46:42.120 --> 0:46:43.879
<v Speaker 1>laden with all of this stuff because we didn't even

0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:47.600
<v Speaker 1>say he had a bow and arrow, yeahvert a knife,

0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:51.600
<v Speaker 1>a hatchet. He was wearing moccasins with grass, and they're

0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:53.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of like, seriously, that's the best they could do

0:46:53.960 --> 0:46:56.480
<v Speaker 1>at this time for hiking a mountain. That's the shoes

0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:59.439
<v Speaker 1>you wore, Like, those aren't mountain hiking shoes at any

0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:07.320
<v Speaker 1>point in his And the fact that the shaft of

0:47:07.360 --> 0:47:09.840
<v Speaker 1>the arrow was removed, I think they point to is

0:47:10.560 --> 0:47:15.239
<v Speaker 1>an example of the idea that he was buried, that

0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:18.239
<v Speaker 1>he was killed ritually and buried in this.

0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:20.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh so they think the killing was a ritual killing too,

0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:24.000
<v Speaker 2>a sacrificial killing. Yeah, oh I didn't get that part.

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:26.680
<v Speaker 1>And the other thing is they're saying, like this stuff,

0:47:26.680 --> 0:47:30.000
<v Speaker 1>these fancy Alexander McQueen leggings that he wore that were

0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:34.000
<v Speaker 1>basically the predecessor of later hosen, that is some pretty

0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:38.200
<v Speaker 1>nice stuff for a simple like sheep herder? Is it

0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:40.600
<v Speaker 1>to be wearing? That's this is what the social theory

0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:43.640
<v Speaker 1>people are saying. Yeah, they're like, we think this guy

0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:46.160
<v Speaker 1>was actually kind of important and that he was buried

0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:50.880
<v Speaker 1>here as a sign a symbol, and what they found,

0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:53.840
<v Speaker 1>or what they point to is that there's stella like

0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 1>monolists that were carved in the Lake copper Age a

0:47:57.760 --> 0:48:00.640
<v Speaker 1>thousand or two thousand years after Utsi because he was

0:48:00.640 --> 0:48:04.319
<v Speaker 1>born at the beginning of the Copper Age, that our

0:48:04.520 --> 0:48:07.960
<v Speaker 1>depictions of somebody dressed a lot like Utzy and they

0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:11.680
<v Speaker 1>think that these are like heroes and legends, ancestors, and

0:48:11.680 --> 0:48:14.480
<v Speaker 1>they're saying, this guy's wearing what these people were carving

0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:18.040
<v Speaker 1>images of a thousand years later. Maybe he was kind

0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:19.560
<v Speaker 1>of important and maybe this is a bit.

0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:21.880
<v Speaker 2>He also had some ornamentation too, didn't he Yeah, like

0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:24.680
<v Speaker 2>a marble bead, Yeah, which you know could mean something

0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:25.279
<v Speaker 2>or could not.

0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:27.759
<v Speaker 1>But the fact that he had so much stuff with

0:48:27.920 --> 0:48:30.920
<v Speaker 1>him does kind of support the idea that maybe it

0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>was a burial and then they.

0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Just send him into the afterlife with all the things

0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:34.360
<v Speaker 2>he would need.

0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Right exactly. And then the other one is no one's

0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:42.160
<v Speaker 1>ever explained how he was so well preserved that apparently

0:48:43.040 --> 0:48:46.359
<v Speaker 1>being frozen by ice doesn't cut it. Oh really, Yeah,

0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:50.720
<v Speaker 1>that other people have been found who died far later

0:48:51.040 --> 0:48:54.839
<v Speaker 1>and were in way worse states of decay than Utsie was.

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 2>But they found no like chemical preservation, no evidence or anything.

0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:02.080
<v Speaker 1>No, And admittedly sides, if either one of them are

0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:05.359
<v Speaker 1>being honest, they will say, we don't know how much

0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:09.239
<v Speaker 1>he was this well preserved quite a mystery still to

0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:11.640
<v Speaker 1>this day. As much as we know about him, he

0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:14.720
<v Speaker 1>is still a mystery. He's our love and mystery man.

0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:15.319
<v Speaker 2>That's right.

0:49:16.160 --> 0:49:17.799
<v Speaker 1>If you want to know more about let's see, go

0:49:18.000 --> 0:49:21.319
<v Speaker 1>type Otzi in your favorite search bar and it will

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.320
<v Speaker 1>bring up some fascinating stuff. And since I said that,

0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:25.400
<v Speaker 1>time for listener.

0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Man, I'm gonna call this the accidental iron Man. Hey, guys,

0:49:31.600 --> 0:49:35.040
<v Speaker 2>big fan for a long time. I accidentally did my

0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:39.440
<v Speaker 2>first iron Man in July twenty eighteen. And you might think,

0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:40.680
<v Speaker 2>how in the world would that happen?

0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:43.760
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking exactly, here's how that happens.

0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:47.000
<v Speaker 2>I've been doing triathlon since twenty fifteen, always planned on

0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:49.320
<v Speaker 2>doing an iron Man at one point or at some point.

0:49:49.600 --> 0:49:51.880
<v Speaker 2>My plan was to do a half iron Man in

0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:55.239
<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen, do the full thing in twenty nineteen. I

0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:57.239
<v Speaker 2>wanted to do the Iron Man like Placid, since it's

0:49:57.280 --> 0:49:59.800
<v Speaker 2>reasonably close and as a lake swim as opposed to

0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:04.319
<v Speaker 2>river or in ocean swim. That's a hard race. To

0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:05.960
<v Speaker 2>get into though, because it sells out so fast. I

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:09.000
<v Speaker 2>got an email told me registration was open, and in

0:50:09.040 --> 0:50:10.799
<v Speaker 2>my excitement I misread it and thought it was for

0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:13.640
<v Speaker 2>the half, so I signed up and realized after the

0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:16.960
<v Speaker 2>fact that it was the entire one hundred and forty

0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:21.239
<v Speaker 2>point six race and not the seventy point three. Triathlons

0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:23.920
<v Speaker 2>don't do refunds, so I paid my eight hundred dollars

0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:26.200
<v Speaker 2>plus entry fee and couldn't get it back. I could

0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:28.840
<v Speaker 2>have deferred for a year, but it's decided just to

0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:31.720
<v Speaker 2>go for it. And I finished the race in fifteen hours,

0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:34.319
<v Speaker 2>two minutes and forty three seconds. Nice work, and that

0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:39.000
<v Speaker 2>is from John Patanyak. And I email John Backen It's like,

0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:40.680
<v Speaker 2>you want to give me a couple of little tidbits

0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:43.480
<v Speaker 2>here for listener mail, and he said sure, and he

0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:45.080
<v Speaker 2>wrote back and he said, one thing I can say

0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:48.440
<v Speaker 2>is it really takes over your personal life. At my peak,

0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:50.759
<v Speaker 2>I was training twenty hours a week. And he said

0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:53.520
<v Speaker 2>that is literally just pool, bike or running. He said,

0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:57.000
<v Speaker 2>doesn't count travel to and from the gym, cooking meals,

0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:00.200
<v Speaker 2>prepping equipment. He said, it's literally like a part time job.

0:51:00.680 --> 0:51:02.239
<v Speaker 2>And he said the race was a lot of fun.

0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:04.960
<v Speaker 2>He said. The Lake Placid course goes through the old

0:51:05.000 --> 0:51:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Olympic structures from the nineteen eighty Olympics, and you finish

0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:12.279
<v Speaker 2>at the finish line and the speed skating oval. Oh,

0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:14.040
<v Speaker 2>that's nat Yeah, it's pretty cool. He cine picture.

0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:16.560
<v Speaker 1>It's like urban exploration Iron Range.

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:18.799
<v Speaker 2>And he said. One of the cool things they do

0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:21.120
<v Speaker 2>if your first timer is you wear an orange wristband

0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:24.360
<v Speaker 2>so all the volunteers and crowd will give you extra

0:51:24.480 --> 0:51:27.520
<v Speaker 2>support and it says I will become one on it.

0:51:28.080 --> 0:51:30.359
<v Speaker 2>And he said, it really works. And he said, and

0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:32.680
<v Speaker 2>finally at the end, the race is so meaningful to

0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:35.520
<v Speaker 2>so many people. Everyone has their own story. But almost

0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:39.520
<v Speaker 2>nothing is better after a year of training than hearing

0:51:39.760 --> 0:51:41.919
<v Speaker 2>you are iron Man. When he crossed the finish line.

0:51:41.920 --> 0:51:46.120
<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. They have Ozzie singing it. I would I

0:51:46.160 --> 0:51:46.600
<v Speaker 1>would too.

0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Who else I don't know.

0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:50.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess theo could again.

0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:54.439
<v Speaker 2>That is John Potoniac. Dio is dead, Oh is he? Yeah,

0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Ronnie James Dio's passed on. When within the last couple

0:51:58.320 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 2>of years.

0:51:58.880 --> 0:52:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, one of the coolest tattoos I've ever seen.

0:52:02.160 --> 0:52:07.520
<v Speaker 1>Somebody got like on their arm, their forearm. I have

0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:09.920
<v Speaker 1>seen that, so that when they make like the devil

0:52:09.960 --> 0:52:15.000
<v Speaker 1>horns or whatever, it's Ronnie Dio making the devil horns

0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:16.400
<v Speaker 1>and the person's.

0:52:15.920 --> 0:52:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Fingers comes your arms. Yeah, it's really neat.

0:52:19.480 --> 0:52:19.719
<v Speaker 1>It is.

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I saw that and I thought, man, that's the coolest

0:52:22.960 --> 0:52:23.719
<v Speaker 2>tattoo I've ever seen.

0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:26.160
<v Speaker 1>I think it might be. It's pretty Hats off to

0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Chris Christofferson's manager, who actually is the person with that that?

0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:29.919
<v Speaker 2>That's right?

0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:32.879
<v Speaker 1>Uh. If you want to get in touch with us,

0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:33.440
<v Speaker 1>like who is that?

0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:35.160
<v Speaker 2>John Patoniac?

0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Thanks John? If you want to get in touch with

0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.759
<v Speaker 1>us like John, congratulations too. You can go on to

0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know and check out our social links.

0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:44.880
<v Speaker 1>You can also send us an email to stuff podcast

0:52:44.920 --> 0:52:50.279
<v Speaker 1>at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:51.560
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0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:55.280
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0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:58.400
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