Speaker 1: The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how
Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can
Speaker 1: hit any shot I kind of want.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
Speaker 2: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Pink proven Grounds podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.
Speaker 1: That is Marty Jerts and Marty. We're gonna tackle a
Speaker 1: topic that I'm assuming people that listen to this podcast
Speaker 1: are gonna be excited about today. I mean, who better
Speaker 1: to chat about high handicap golf than us with Andrew Rice.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Andrew's been an ambassador for us for a number
Speaker 2: of years now, and I think, Shane, what what comes
Speaker 2: back to me when I think of Andrew is when
Speaker 2: we were in the archives with Rob Griffin, our historian,
Speaker 2: and he said that Carston Solheim's mission was to help
Speaker 2: the average golfer. Well, I think that, really, you know,
Speaker 2: I think embodies Andrew and what he's what he's trying
Speaker 2: to do on the teaching and coaching side. I could
Speaker 2: be more excited to talk to him about it.
Speaker 3: Guys, Thanks so much, Andrew.
Speaker 1: When when you dive into the world a high handicap golf.
Speaker 1: I mean as somebody that is awful at instruction and
Speaker 1: really doesn't have any idea of how to help any
Speaker 1: golfer in the world. I try to help my buddies,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't go so well. Where do you start, Like,
Speaker 1: what's the first step to someone that is struggling to
Speaker 1: break one hundred or struggling to break ninety.
Speaker 3: I think for me, you know, I regard the foundation
Speaker 3: of golf as the hitting of the golf ball. I
Speaker 3: often say to people, it's not that the short game
Speaker 3: and putting doesn't matter, but if we're getting the ball
Speaker 3: up and down and we're holding these twenty foot PUDs
Speaker 3: for doubles and triples, that doesn't make a whole big
Speaker 3: of a difference. And so it's really ultimately about the
Speaker 3: hitting of the golf ball. I like to look at
Speaker 3: the ball flight, what's the golf ball doing, how far
Speaker 3: is it going, how high is it flying, how much
Speaker 3: is it curving, and then back things up from there
Speaker 3: and say, okay, let's talk. I like to interview my students,
Speaker 3: talk to them and say, tell me what's ailing, what's happening,
Speaker 3: what's going wrong, and how can I help you? To
Speaker 3: start to have more joy out on the golf course.
Speaker 3: That really what it's got to be all about.
Speaker 2: I think Andrew is going to be one of my
Speaker 2: first questions too, is what brings you? What kind of
Speaker 2: motivates you to teach golfers every day? What brings you
Speaker 2: the most joy or excitement when you wake up? I mean,
Speaker 2: I've never seen you lack excitement and enthusiasm when you're
Speaker 2: interacting with other teachers and then your students. What is
Speaker 2: that motivating factor for you?
Speaker 3: Party people are coming to me because there's invariably something
Speaker 3: wrong and they're looking to leisure time. We all greatly
Speaker 3: value our leisure time, and for most of us, golf
Speaker 3: is a big part of that leisure time, and we
Speaker 3: want to be able to go out there and take
Speaker 3: advantage of that opportunity. We've got to be out enjoying
Speaker 3: the game, and the better we play, the more fun
Speaker 3: we have. And so I really want to help people,
Speaker 3: just like I said earlier, enjoy themselves, have more joy
Speaker 3: when they're out on the golf course. And you guys
Speaker 3: both know it. If you're playing well, it's a lot
Speaker 3: more fun out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just when I you know, I
Speaker 1: think about when I'm struggling with my golf game, like
Speaker 1: I'm currently in a bit of a funk with my
Speaker 1: golf game right now, and you feel very lost, like
Speaker 1: nothing really makes a lot of sense. And of course
Speaker 1: the scary part is then your brain gets in the way.
Speaker 1: Right now you're thinking is it golf swing? Is it
Speaker 1: my alignment?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I hitting the right club? You start
Speaker 1: to question everything when you have people approach you for
Speaker 1: a first time. I'm assuming that all of those characteristics
Speaker 1: are coming with them. It's like a lot of baggage, right,
Speaker 1: I mean they've got two or three bags they're checking
Speaker 1: on the flight. How do you a focus on bag
Speaker 1: number one, which either is golf swing, brain, whatever the
Speaker 1: case may be. And then what is a when from
Speaker 1: a first lesson or a first experience with somebody that
Speaker 1: comes your way, is it just clearing the clouds? Like
Speaker 1: what is a victory for you off the bat?
Speaker 3: One of the questions I ask all of my students
Speaker 3: when I meet them for the first time, Shane, is
Speaker 3: what would you be happy with walking off this lesson
Speaker 3: tea today? And so they're going to tell me straight away, Okay,
Speaker 3: gives me insight as to what's ailing, what they're looking
Speaker 3: to achieve, and I've linked over the years give them that,
Speaker 3: do everything I can do to give them that, and
Speaker 3: so what would they like to achieve? And then spend
Speaker 3: our time together working towards that. If we've got extra
Speaker 3: time and we can get that done very quickly, then
Speaker 3: we're going to look at some other things that might
Speaker 3: add to this cherry on the top, so to speak.
Speaker 3: But I really want to help them achieve their objective.
Speaker 3: It's oftentimes bullflight. They want to hit it longer, they
Speaker 3: want to hit it higher, they want to hit it straighter,
Speaker 3: they want to strike it better. And I'm going to
Speaker 3: get them there and then do what I can to
Speaker 3: provide them with the tools necessary so they can start
Speaker 3: to revisit that space more often.
Speaker 2: Andrew, how has golf instruction changed since you first got
Speaker 2: into it? I think you kind of I admired before
Speaker 2: we got to know each other, seeing how you were
Speaker 2: an early adopter of track Man using it to do
Speaker 2: research projects. Quite frankly, when it first came out, it
Speaker 2: was a fancy tool, and the golf instruction they kind
Speaker 2: of out crowdsourced the you know, research projects to golf instructors.
Speaker 2: You latched onto that early and did some research with it.
Speaker 2: How has tools and technology track Man, for example, maybe
Speaker 2: some more contemporary tools change your approach to teaching. What
Speaker 2: has that kind of journey or evolution been like for
Speaker 2: you already?
Speaker 3: A lot of teachers will say, well, so and so,
Speaker 3: Butch Harmon was my mentor. David Ledbetter was my mentor,
Speaker 3: and I suddenly started teaching working for David Ledbetter. I
Speaker 3: would have to say that golf technology most importantly, track
Speaker 3: Man was my mentor in that it taught me what
Speaker 3: causes the ball to fly a certain way and what
Speaker 3: numbers to look for. And I know this might sound
Speaker 3: a little technical, but it really isn't. I look at
Speaker 3: track Man as a great field machine, a great piece
Speaker 3: of field generating technology, and so I use track Man
Speaker 3: early on to gain some insight as to what causes
Speaker 3: the ball to make that great sound, fly that beautiful
Speaker 3: little tight draw, what are the numbers that are affiliated
Speaker 3: with that? And if I've got a student and there
Speaker 3: are long ways away from that, we're almost always trying
Speaker 3: to neutralize what they're doing and work them back to
Speaker 3: a straight or ball flight. A more appropriate trajectory, and
Speaker 3: we don't want anything to extreme. And so track Man
Speaker 3: that teaching technology has been really integral for me as
Speaker 3: a teacher to teach me what really matters. It's not
Speaker 3: so much the look of the golf swing. It's far
Speaker 3: more about the function of the golf swing. And I
Speaker 3: think of Jim Furick and Aim and Dorcy and some
Speaker 3: of those classic unique golf swings. Kelvin Pete and those
Speaker 3: players could really make the ball sound great, fly straight
Speaker 3: down towards their target, and that's ultimately what we're looking for.
Speaker 3: It shouldn't necessarily be about trying to get every golfer
Speaker 3: to look like Adam Scott. I want everyone's different, everybody's unique.
Speaker 3: You guys are both fantastic players. I was thinking, if
Speaker 3: there ever is a podcast open where they invite two
Speaker 3: players for each podcast, I know where I'm going to
Speaker 3: put my money. You guys would be a pretty strong
Speaker 3: squad there. But just to give people some insights as
Speaker 3: to how can you take your golf swing and start
Speaker 3: to use what you do to hit better shots. That
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be this revamp. You don't have to
Speaker 3: build this beautiful Adam Scott looking golf swing. It can
Speaker 3: be with what you have, just perhaps a little change
Speaker 3: out address, some ball position, maybe even some equipment upgrades
Speaker 3: to get that ball starting to obey what you're trying
Speaker 3: to get it to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew, it's a great point, because the idea of
Speaker 1: an overhaul to the golf swing for an adult golfer,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody that's got a job and they've got
Speaker 1: a day, a weekly game they play, and they've got kids,
Speaker 1: they've got a family. The idea of a complete overall,
Speaker 1: which maybe some golfers need, is very intimidated and quite frankly,
Speaker 1: something most people are not going to be that interested in.
Speaker 1: So you have to almost push that to the side
Speaker 1: and focus on very very small tweaks to help a
Speaker 1: golfer out, and that is not a very easy thing
Speaker 1: to do. One thing I do find so interesting I've
Speaker 1: already already mentioned it is attitude is such an important
Speaker 1: part of instruction. I mean, if you show up to
Speaker 1: the first t and you're in a bad mood, or
Speaker 1: you're not having a great day, or you don't seem
Speaker 1: like you want to be there, then the player is
Speaker 1: not going to get adequate advice or at least what
Speaker 1: they feel like they're paying to get and you seem
Speaker 1: like someone that brings the positivity, you know, brings kind
Speaker 1: of an upbeat personality to that first tee and at
Speaker 1: the same time understands that not everybody's showing up is
Speaker 1: down to change their entire golf swing like Tiger did
Speaker 1: five times.
Speaker 3: Correct, correct, what you know, Tiger, what Tiger is? We
Speaker 3: all know this amazing and he is here's the outlier,
Speaker 3: exactly right, exactly right. And so people would love to
Speaker 3: have the ability to do what Tiger has done on
Speaker 3: multiple occasions. But that thing called life gets in the way,
Speaker 3: and it's family and its work, and it's I've only
Speaker 3: got so much time that I can dedicate towards golf.
Speaker 3: Give me what you can so that I can fit
Speaker 3: that into my little window, my little golf window. I
Speaker 3: can go out and practice, maybe even hit fifteen balls
Speaker 3: before I go out to play. What can I feel
Speaker 3: and think and maybe do something at home in front
Speaker 3: of the mirror to start to help me hit some
Speaker 3: better shots.
Speaker 2: And got it.
Speaker 3: It's taken a long time, but I think I finally
Speaker 3: realize why you look at all those golf digests and
Speaker 3: golf dot Com top teacher lists, and there's not a
Speaker 3: lot of twenty five year old teachers on the list.
Speaker 3: And I realize why, because it just takes a long
Speaker 3: time to be able to interpret and understand people, not
Speaker 3: so much golf swings, but just people. And I'm going
Speaker 3: to talk and I'm going to ask my students questions
Speaker 3: and hopefully that's going to give me some insight as
Speaker 3: to who they are and what's going to help them
Speaker 3: and how I can best help them.
Speaker 1: Marty, I was thinking about this in terms of ping
Speaker 1: and a lot of the technology that we've talked about
Speaker 1: on this podcast, because something you've done such a great
Speaker 1: job with, you know, so many of the tools and
Speaker 1: AI and things like that, is to try to get
Speaker 1: people to feel comfortable making a change without having to
Speaker 1: go to the golf course and change it on the
Speaker 1: range or on the golf course, or spend those months
Speaker 1: maybe even introducing to equipment, you know, via the popularity
Speaker 1: of the seven wood or the crossovers booming popularity over
Speaker 1: the last few years. The technology that you've worked so
Speaker 1: hard on has made this easier for golfers to feel
Speaker 1: more comfortable just putting a new golf club in their bag.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a magical thing, Shane.
Speaker 2: When you can go out and let's say golfers never
Speaker 2: hit a seven wood, they hear about it on the podcast,
Speaker 2: they see tour players using it, they go get one.
Speaker 2: They can make their same swing with those characteristics and
Speaker 2: trades to start hitting good shots immediately. I think that's
Speaker 2: our own way of kind of bringing some immediate joy
Speaker 2: into this game. Andrew, on the topic of equipment, what
Speaker 2: are some because you see a lot of folks come
Speaker 2: through through your clinics and your schools that you do,
Speaker 2: and you have seen you've one of your biggest roles
Speaker 2: with us as a brand ambassadors to represent the people.
Speaker 2: And what are you seeing out there in terms of
Speaker 2: what does their bag look like? What are some equipment
Speaker 2: mistakes they are making? And then you know we can
Speaker 2: design into those gaps or better message those gaps fit
Speaker 2: those gaps. What are some big mistakes you see common
Speaker 2: mistakes you see in the high handicaper everyday golfers golf bags.
Speaker 3: Right now, Marty, I must say, over the last few years,
Speaker 3: I think you guys have done an excellent job in
Speaker 3: getting longer irons out of golfers bags. That's a great thing.
Speaker 3: They've been replaced with some nice hybrids that can help
Speaker 3: the bull get up in the air. But I must
Speaker 3: say I still see three woods. I still see, in
Speaker 3: my opinion, too many three woods, and the average golfer,
Speaker 3: a certainly male golfer out there. Lady golfers most often
Speaker 3: do not need a three wood, but the average male
Speaker 3: almost feels like they need to be a man and
Speaker 3: they need to I need a three wood, you know,
Speaker 3: Give me a driver and a three wood. I'll have
Speaker 3: some other things beyond that. But far too many golfers
Speaker 3: still have three woods in their bag. And that's a
Speaker 3: load line drive type ballflight. And I just see golfers
Speaker 3: getting so much more out of You mentioned the seven
Speaker 3: out of the five, perhaps something they can get up
Speaker 3: in the air. And I still see far too many
Speaker 3: golfers with that traditional fifteen degree three wood that they're
Speaker 3: trying to hit off the deck and really not having
Speaker 3: much joy with.
Speaker 2: Shane, we have some very interesting data on that, so
Speaker 2: Andrew brings up the three wood. We mind our Arcos
Speaker 2: data and found that golfers who hit the ball hit
Speaker 2: their driver two hundred and fifty yards hit the threewood
Speaker 2: off the tee fifty percent of the time and off
Speaker 2: the ground fifty percent of the time. But Andrew, if
Speaker 2: you hit your driver two hundred yards, you're hitting your
Speaker 2: three wood or your lowest lofted fairrywood eighty percent of
Speaker 2: the time off the ground twenty percent off the tee.
Speaker 2: But if you drive it three hundred you hit it
Speaker 2: eighty percent of the time off the tee and twenty
Speaker 2: percent of the time off the ground. So I think,
Speaker 2: you know, we use that in fitting because if you're
Speaker 2: a fast clubbed speed player, you want to focus on
Speaker 2: your three wood more as a t shot club. You're saying,
Speaker 2: you're seeing the everyday golfer hit you know what, need
Speaker 2: to play a three wood, and we know the data
Speaker 2: shows they need that thing getting off the ground very
Speaker 2: easily eighty percent of the time, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I would if you can perhaps work some magic, Marty,
Speaker 3: and please build this amazing fairway wood club. You can
Speaker 3: even put a big giant three on the bottom, say
Speaker 3: everyone feels good, but just give it like a five
Speaker 3: or seven. Would love to shoot that thing up in
Speaker 3: the air. That would be awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, just the approach shots. I mean, you
Speaker 1: know you're hitting shots into par fours, and I mean
Speaker 1: you're hitting these, you know, in theory, hitting a fairywood
Speaker 1: on a lot of par threes. I mean, why not
Speaker 1: make that easier on yourself versus having to absolutely make
Speaker 1: the perfect swing with the three wood?
Speaker 2: For sure. Yeah, and I think our sft andrews a
Speaker 2: great option there. You know, by a standard loft sixteen degrees,
Speaker 2: you can obviously tweak it up with the sleeve turns
Speaker 2: over a little bit easier. But yeah, we've been doing
Speaker 2: some things to make our fairwoods get up in the
Speaker 2: air a lot easier, moving the center of gravity lower,
Speaker 2: et cetera. But I'm so glad you highlighted that that
Speaker 2: three wood is an area as we've seen recently last
Speaker 2: five years, probably as a trend, more folks being comfortable
Speaker 2: getting those long irons out of their back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I really do think I think golph is
Speaker 3: starting to be okay with, particularly the man golf is
Speaker 3: that I teach, they're starting to be okay with something
Speaker 3: with more loft as they're primary fairway would But there's
Speaker 3: still so many people out there who believe they've got
Speaker 3: to get a driver and a three wood, and that
Speaker 3: really isn't the.
Speaker 1: Case Andrew, you mentioned equipment and a big mistake that
Speaker 1: high handicappers make in terms of their equipment. What would
Speaker 1: you say is the number one thing you feel like
Speaker 1: high handicappers struggle with that is almost consistent throughout people
Speaker 1: that come to see you. What's the is it? Is
Speaker 1: it alignment? Is it not understanding their own distances? What
Speaker 1: do you feel like is the number one thing you
Speaker 1: almost see every single time you have a higher handicap
Speaker 1: come your way.
Speaker 3: The universal thing. I'm glad you asked this question, Shane.
Speaker 3: I think it's a goodie. The universal thing is how
Speaker 3: far do I hit the golf ball? And I love
Speaker 3: you know, I'll have someone on track, man and they've
Speaker 3: hit five or six seven irons, and I'll go, so,
Speaker 3: how far do you normally hit a seven itro And
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the real data, and they go, uh,
Speaker 3: one sixty five? And I know that I swing, you know,
Speaker 3: ten to fifty miles an hour faster than them, and
Speaker 3: my carry with a seven iron is like one sixty four,
Speaker 3: and yet they hit it one sixty five. And I'm going, oh,
Speaker 3: that's weird, because I've just seen you carry your best
Speaker 3: one carried one thirty eight, and I think it's twofold.
Speaker 3: Number one is golfers seem to have latched onto how
Speaker 3: far they hit a seven nine in a total capacity,
Speaker 3: what the land plus role is and total is dependent
Speaker 3: on course conditions. The golfer is responsible for the carry,
Speaker 3: the golf course is responsible for the total, and I'd
Speaker 3: love for golfers to start to get a better idea
Speaker 3: as to what the actual carry number is. It might
Speaker 3: be a hard pill to swallow, I know that, but
Speaker 3: you will play better golf. And ultimately you're listening to
Speaker 3: this because you might want to pick up a nugget
Speaker 3: or two to help you play better golf. Find out
Speaker 3: what your carry numbers are first and then second, and
Speaker 3: let's get rid of the ego. Let's we know that
Speaker 3: back in nineteen ninety one you used to hit a
Speaker 3: seven arn a lot further. But today is today, and
Speaker 3: we're happy to be playing golf. If you can have
Speaker 3: a carry number that is accurate, you cannot help but
Speaker 3: play better golf. And we all know this. If golfers
Speaker 3: can start to hit more greens, they simply have to
Speaker 3: score lower. They have to have more fun out there.
Speaker 2: Oh, Andrew, I absolutely love that and that's what the
Speaker 2: you know, I think we hear and when I've played
Speaker 2: in tour events, it's all about that carry number, like
Speaker 2: you know, where do you want that ball to pitch?
Speaker 2: That's absolutely what you can control. I love that. I
Speaker 2: think a couple of tools out there for the listener
Speaker 2: that they can use. One, you can measure your actual
Speaker 2: tendencies on course with a tool like our ghost number one,
Speaker 2: and that's been really fun to showcase. Andrew, we've seen
Speaker 2: some of all the data. I'm sure you've seen it
Speaker 2: for your individual students are on the big data of
Speaker 2: what percentage of the time golfers come up short on
Speaker 2: the golf course, right and it with their irons. It
Speaker 2: is a party.
Speaker 1: Do you have a number on it? Do you have
Speaker 1: an idea of what the number is?
Speaker 2: Well, it's just kind of a heat map, and I
Speaker 2: guess for the listener out there, maybe picture the shape
Speaker 2: of like a pair, you know, where the pin is
Speaker 2: at the top and the rest of the heat map
Speaker 2: is down there underneath. That's kind of what it looks
Speaker 2: like for everybody, you know. So that's a fun one.
Speaker 2: And then number two, Shame with our gaping app and
Speaker 2: co pilot are folks who come in and get fit.
Speaker 2: This is kind of an unintended consequence of that tool
Speaker 2: is we give you a projected carry distance of all
Speaker 2: your clubs, and we have our folks can can come
Speaker 2: get fit and use that copilot and they get their
Speaker 2: carry distances and then you can go play golf and
Speaker 2: double check them. But Andrew, that's a way we can
Speaker 2: really help that golfer without them having to go because
Speaker 2: it takes a long time to go do it full
Speaker 2: gaping and hit all your clubs and enough good shots.
Speaker 2: We can kind of calculate that estimate. That forum has
Speaker 2: been super duper helpful.
Speaker 3: That is massive. And to me, Marty, that's like the
Speaker 3: low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That makes my job as an instructor easier. I'm helping
Speaker 3: my students save strokes without really changing their golf swing
Speaker 3: at all. It's just let's get a better understanding, let's
Speaker 3: get some good accurate information, and you can straight away
Speaker 3: go out for the next round you play. You can
Speaker 3: start to hit more greens, save some strokes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew, this is one of my biggest complaints about
Speaker 1: golfers in general, is you spend so much of your
Speaker 1: life focused on the game of golf, whether it be
Speaker 1: you know, wanting to travel with your buddies and play
Speaker 1: golf trips, or you're grinding to get that handicapped down.
Speaker 1: Yet you don't really understand anything about your own golf game.
Speaker 1: And this goes through a couple things we've talked about,
Speaker 1: a equipment understanding what best is for you, and it's
Speaker 1: maddening running into people that aren't getting fit routinely for
Speaker 1: golf equipment because again, you're investing so much your life.
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine a country club membership. You know, you're
Speaker 1: you're these days you're laying down at minimum twenty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars at maximum. I don't even know how much a
Speaker 1: million dollars for country club membership. Yet yeah, you're you're not.
Speaker 1: You don't totally understand what your bag is about. And
Speaker 1: then your point about the actual carry numbers is not
Speaker 1: having a total grasp of how far you hit every
Speaker 1: single club is just doing yourself a disservice. Right. It's
Speaker 1: like driving a car and this phenometer being off right
Speaker 1: and you're like, I think I'm going fifty five, officer,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, like it doesn't make a
Speaker 1: lot of sense.
Speaker 3: It really does. And it's easy stuff. It's the problem
Speaker 3: is it's not sexy, it's not appealing. It's not like,
Speaker 3: Oh I saw you know, John Rams downswing and I
Speaker 3: want to get mine to look like that. Well, John
Speaker 3: Ram's done a lot of stuff to know how far
Speaker 3: his clubs go, to get himself fitted, to get himself
Speaker 3: in the right equipment, and then he gets up and
Speaker 3: hits the ball. Let's start there and we can really
Speaker 3: have a good hits start on playing better golf.
Speaker 2: Andrew, let's go back to track Man a little bit,
Speaker 2: and the listener of the Ping proven Grounds podcast, there's
Speaker 2: some techi's out there, so it's okay to talk a
Speaker 2: little techy here. What are some of the maybe key
Speaker 2: club delivery and or ball metrics you really hone into.
Speaker 2: You could pick maybe a seven iron andrew or a driver.
Speaker 2: You know, are you looking at path face? You know,
Speaker 2: horizontal swing plane? And how how do you kind of
Speaker 2: manipulate those things? What you know? How what numbers are
Speaker 2: you kind of using as your guideline for those metrics
Speaker 2: you're looking at?
Speaker 3: Marty? Firstly, I don't really I'm not overly concerned with
Speaker 3: the shape of somebody shot as long as it's appropriate,
Speaker 3: as long as it's not too much, it's not extreme.
Speaker 3: If fades work just as well as draws, and I'm
Speaker 3: sorry to let everybody know that, but that's a fact.
Speaker 3: You don't necessarily have to hit a draw in order
Speaker 3: to play good goal fades can work just as well.
Speaker 3: I'm looking for something club pathwise three degrees out to
Speaker 3: end three degrees into out. When we're hitting shots off
Speaker 3: the ground, I'm looking for a mild downward strike anywhere
Speaker 3: between one point five and five point zero ish. If
Speaker 3: we're talking irons being struck off the ground, I'm going
Speaker 3: to An interesting thing is the dynamic loft. What is
Speaker 3: dynamic loft? It's the loft of the face at impact.
Speaker 3: What does the golf ball experience the dynamic loft? And
Speaker 3: a lot of golf coaches and golfers don't really get
Speaker 3: and understand the role that those two need to play,
Speaker 3: the two being club speed and dynamic loft. And I
Speaker 3: do believe we've got to match those up. The higher
Speaker 3: the speed, the lower the dynamic loft needs to be.
Speaker 3: I know that, Marty. If you hit a seven iron
Speaker 3: that launches at twenty degrees and I hit a seven
Speaker 3: iron that launches at twenty degrees, your ball's going to
Speaker 3: go significantly higher than mine because your club speed ball
Speaker 3: speed is higher. And ultimately, if you launch a seven
Speaker 3: at twenty degrees, that's not a good thing for you
Speaker 3: because You're ball is going to go too high and
Speaker 3: it's going to be out of control. You know that
Speaker 3: better than everybody really. But for the golfer with that
Speaker 3: slower club speed, they need to launch the ball at
Speaker 3: twenty and so that's something that I'm going to look for. Yeah,
Speaker 3: club path, attack angle, club speed, but I really want
Speaker 3: to tie that club speed to an appropriate dynamic loft
Speaker 3: because that's going to be that trajectory factor. So many
Speaker 3: golfers that I teach will typically hit the ball too low,
Speaker 3: and if I run into somebody who's hitting it too high,
Speaker 3: it's just weak and ineffective. Well, then we're going to
Speaker 3: try to bring the loft down, but we are going
Speaker 3: to I'm certainly going to try to marry their club
Speaker 3: speed with that club to an appropriate dynamic loft because
Speaker 3: that gets the ball to a playable hype where it's
Speaker 3: not overly high and gets out of control, and it
Speaker 3: gets up enough to where it can land and stuff.
Speaker 1: On a Andrew, I wanted to ask about practice, especially
Speaker 1: for high handicap golfers. I mean, so much of the
Speaker 1: time we hear just focus on one hundred yards and
Speaker 1: end focus on pitching and chipping and putting. What do
Speaker 1: you tell people that come your way about practice if
Speaker 1: they have an hour to practice? How do you break
Speaker 1: that down for high handicap players?
Speaker 3: Shane? Firstly, I'm overjoyed if they have an hour that
Speaker 3: they can practice, that's a good start, Okay, if you
Speaker 3: want to get better, you simply have to practice. You
Speaker 3: cannot listen to a podcast or watch an instructional video.
Speaker 1: Telling that answer.
Speaker 2: Yes, they can, they might not subscribe.
Speaker 3: This is where they're getting the gold that they've got
Speaker 3: to get out there and go and practice. Firstly, I
Speaker 3: would say this, I think driver practice is underrepresented. I'd
Speaker 3: like to see golfers hit a lot more drivers. I'd
Speaker 3: like to see golfers actually practice generating more speed. How
Speaker 3: do you do that? I think at the end of
Speaker 3: your practice session, reserve anywhere from a dozen to twenty
Speaker 3: golf balls and you're loose, you're ready to go, and ideally,
Speaker 3: if you've got some kind of feedback device, helping you
Speaker 3: with club speed or ball speed. You're going to get
Speaker 3: up there and try to rip those golf balls as
Speaker 3: hard as you can, just to see what you can do.
Speaker 3: There's also another great teaching aid that Marty might know about,
Speaker 3: called the stack. That's fantastic. This is not meant to
Speaker 3: be a plug for the stack, by the way, I
Speaker 3: think it's a fantastic tool and it's invaluable in helping
Speaker 3: golfers hit their golf ball closer to the green. If
Speaker 3: you think about what golf is, it's what are we
Speaker 3: trying to do on irons. We're trying to get the
Speaker 3: right distance so we can have our ball finished closer
Speaker 3: to the hole when we're chipping, pitching, closer to the
Speaker 3: hole when we're putting in the hole. The same goes
Speaker 3: for t shots. Let's practice our driver so that a
Speaker 3: we can make it go a long way and b
Speaker 3: we can work towards keeping it in play. I'd love
Speaker 3: to see golfers spend more time practicing with their driver.
Speaker 3: And then I don't think that block practice has received
Speaker 3: much of a good rap over the last few years,
Speaker 3: and it is my opinion that every golfer needs to
Speaker 3: do some degree some amount of block practice, and then
Speaker 3: work from block. And what is block practice. It's a
Speaker 3: seven iron. You're working on your swing and you're just
Speaker 3: hitting a bunch of seven irons all to the same target.
Speaker 3: You're trying to get a feel for that motion, that strike,
Speaker 3: that new change that you might be working on. Spend
Speaker 3: some time doing that, But then I would love for
Speaker 3: you to go, okay, I need to take this and
Speaker 3: change this, work this over into the golf course, because
Speaker 3: so often golfers will say, Andrew, I'm good on the range,
Speaker 3: I'm horrible on the course. I know, if you're listening,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people nodding their heads right now.
Speaker 1: Marity and I are not.
Speaker 3: How can we possibly make well, make it better. We
Speaker 3: can never recreate the golf course on the range, but
Speaker 3: we can get closer. And instead of just hitting fifty
Speaker 3: seven irons and going I think I got this, Today's
Speaker 3: going to be a great day. And you step on
Speaker 3: the first d and that thing's in the water off
Speaker 3: the first t. That's because the manner in which you
Speaker 3: practiced had very little to do with what is required
Speaker 3: on the golf course, and so spend a portion of
Speaker 3: your practice time hitting golf course style shots, pick out
Speaker 3: a target, rotate clubs frequently, try to hit to the
Speaker 3: sides of targets, use your preshot routine. And then I think,
Speaker 3: now you're practicing. Now you're preparing to go out and
Speaker 3: play ultimately better golf. Some block practice, some random practice
Speaker 3: where you're trying to mirror imitate what you're doing out
Speaker 3: on the golf course, and throw in a couple of
Speaker 3: speed shots at the end, I think you're in good shape.
Speaker 2: I love that, Andrew. I think that was one of
Speaker 2: my biggest regrets in hindsight looking back in my own
Speaker 2: golf career is overpracticing the fifty yard shot and underpracticing
Speaker 2: my driver. So I love that idea, Marty.
Speaker 1: I mean, the saying we heard for years was drive
Speaker 1: for show and putt for doe. And I always said, well,
Speaker 1: if you don't drive it in play and you're putting
Speaker 1: for no dough, right, I mean, you know you've got
Speaker 1: to at least get it in play. And I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously we've seen how important the driver is in modern
Speaker 1: golf in the way modern equipment has made it is
Speaker 1: the most important golf club in your back. I'd say,
Speaker 1: even over the putter for a lot of players, especially
Speaker 1: players that struggle to get it off the tee. Because
Speaker 1: I was playing golf with a friend of mine in
Speaker 1: the media a few weeks ago, and he's hitting his
Speaker 1: driver a lot better than I'd seen it a few
Speaker 1: months ago, and he goes, Shane, I realized that if
Speaker 1: I can hit it two thirty off the tee and play,
Speaker 1: I can be a guest anywhere in the world, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I can hit it two thirty off
Speaker 1: the tee and relatively straight, I can be invited any
Speaker 1: golf course in the world and not be embarrassed. And
Speaker 1: it's so true, right like that lends itself to positivity.
Speaker 1: You feel better about yourself. You're getting the ball in play,
Speaker 1: you're in the hole if you're playing a match. I mean,
Speaker 1: the driver is so much more important than I think
Speaker 1: we used to give a credit for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I say this to a lot of my students.
Speaker 3: Over the last twenty years, Strokes gained. The best statistical
Speaker 3: putter on the PGA Tour has been a player by
Speaker 3: the name of Denny McCarthy. And I say this, I
Speaker 3: think Denny would trade some of his putting dough for
Speaker 3: some of Rory's driving dough. You know, Rory, Rory's got
Speaker 3: a lot of driving dough in his bank account. And
Speaker 3: that's I mean, that's a big reason why Rory is Rory.
Speaker 3: Not that Denny's bad. Denny's done a lovely job and
Speaker 3: he's a fantastic putter, but the old drive for show
Speaker 3: putt for dough is not one by any.
Speaker 2: Means, Andrew. So far, we've talked a lot about ball striking,
Speaker 2: which I think you framed very well. That's kind of
Speaker 2: the foundation of golf. But you have done a lot
Speaker 2: of tremendous work on short game, short game technique, helping
Speaker 2: us with our wedge designs, evaluating our grinds, friction, spin generation.
Speaker 2: You know, using track Man is a is a kind
Speaker 2: of a research engine for a short game. I know
Speaker 2: when you first did your Wedge video, was it called
Speaker 2: the Wedge Project.
Speaker 3: Andrew, the Wedge Project, Yeah, the Wedge.
Speaker 2: Project almost ten years ago. Ten years ago, we had
Speaker 2: a bunch of we got a lot of golf junkies,
Speaker 2: engineers around the office. I remember there right when it
Speaker 2: first came out. They all bought it downloaded. They're watching
Speaker 2: at their desks and still geeking out over it tell
Speaker 2: us a little bit about the Wedge project, what you
Speaker 2: kind of learned in that video and what would you
Speaker 2: do over differently, what knowledge or insight do you have
Speaker 2: about short game technique now that if you if you
Speaker 2: refilm that or re edit it, would you would you
Speaker 2: put in there party?
Speaker 3: Firstly, the whole idea came to fruition because I wanted
Speaker 3: to understand why when we're pitching, especially when we start
Speaker 3: out pitching, we can hit that let's let's call it
Speaker 3: a fifty yard shot, Okay, forty to fifty yard shot.
Speaker 3: Why is it that sometimes we hit that shot and
Speaker 3: that bull comes out nice and low, and it feels
Speaker 3: great on the face, and it's got tons of check
Speaker 3: on it, and then on the next swing we can
Speaker 3: strike it and it feels quite similar. But the ball
Speaker 3: seems to fly twice as high it launches up, it
Speaker 3: seems to plummet out of the sky, hit and roll,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to better understand that, and track Man
Speaker 3: being what it is, I was tremendously helpful in being
Speaker 3: able to gain some insights, as have a lot of
Speaker 3: your friends. The engineers at PING been tremendously helpful in
Speaker 3: helping me understand that as to what makes it work.
Speaker 3: Why does that friction between the ball and the face
Speaker 3: work sometimes and not others. And really, ultimately it's we
Speaker 3: get matter trapped between the face and the golf ball.
Speaker 3: Be it moisture, be at grass, those green dots on
Speaker 3: the face. Whenever you hit a pitch shot or a
Speaker 3: chip shot and you look down and you see that
Speaker 3: green dots on the face, I promise you that golf
Speaker 3: ball flew higher than you intended, it had less been
Speaker 3: than you intended. And most often it is not your fault.
Speaker 3: You didn't do anything wrong. It's just that matter got
Speaker 3: trapped between the face and the golf ball. And the
Speaker 3: moral of the story is this is clean your club.
Speaker 3: Play a nice fresh wedge and a eurothane covered golf ball.
Speaker 3: Spend the little bit of extra money that you need
Speaker 3: to spend to get a quality golf ball, keep the
Speaker 3: club clean, play a nice fresh wedge. You're going to
Speaker 3: hit more of those low spinners. But understand, if you're
Speaker 3: playing early in the morning and it's dewy out and
Speaker 3: the ground is wet, you're going to launch the ball
Speaker 3: much higher than anticipated. It's going to spend significantly less
Speaker 3: than anticipated. That is, unless you're using a hydro ferb
Speaker 3: hydrophobic ping wedge, which really does once again not a plug,
Speaker 3: it just happens to be. It makes a tremendous difference
Speaker 3: in spin rate anytime that coating that ping wedges have
Speaker 3: really displaces the water, and the spin rates are actually
Speaker 3: quite amazingly consistent from wet conditions to dry conditions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think yep, go ahead, go ahead, Marty. I
Speaker 2: think that's the big thing we're trying to solve is
Speaker 2: just that we want to provide the predictability to the golfer,
Speaker 2: right and that and that low launch, high spin pitch
Speaker 2: shot is quite fun to hit. But you nailed a
Speaker 2: lot of the the key ingredients, and that's where you
Speaker 2: have been super helpful of giving this push and pull
Speaker 2: to us. Hey guys, I'm seeing this. Why does this happen?
Speaker 2: I'm seeing golf my golfers do this. I'm seeing this
Speaker 2: and testing why does it happen? That's helped push us
Speaker 2: to answer those questions, innovate on better groove designs, better
Speaker 2: finishes and things to help you and the ultimately the
Speaker 2: everyday golfer and golf ball is a big part of that.
Speaker 2: No doubt about it. I'm glad you brought that up
Speaker 2: and being able to pull on all those levers to
Speaker 2: create create spin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, player best. We're both on the same train. The
Speaker 3: golfers play their best.
Speaker 1: Andrew, I'm glad you mentioned the cleaning the face part
Speaker 1: of the wedge experience because when I was when I
Speaker 1: saw that on track man one time. You know what
Speaker 1: a wedge, How a wedge reacts when it's totally clean
Speaker 1: versus even a couple of shots in Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it is. It is mind blowing. And I don't think
Speaker 1: golfers quite understand how much they're giving up when they
Speaker 1: don't clean their clubs every single swing. This goes back
Speaker 1: to putting the time in right. Clean your clubs, have
Speaker 1: new grips. I mean, these are things you can do
Speaker 1: at home to help yourself out.
Speaker 3: We did, I'll never forget we did a fairly significant
Speaker 3: wedge test a couple of years ago and we had
Speaker 3: players hit four shots with a wedge, hot hand them
Speaker 3: another wedge, and they'd hit another four shots, and they
Speaker 3: didn't really ever clean the club between the four shots,
Speaker 3: and at the end. This was not the objective of
Speaker 3: the test, but it just happened to be some information
Speaker 3: that we could pull out, and I said, let's take
Speaker 3: a look at spin rates from shot one where they
Speaker 3: had a clean club to shot four, and there was
Speaker 3: a nineteen percent lowering of spin rate from shot one
Speaker 3: to shot four. So you hit three shots, your spin
Speaker 3: rate on average is going to be twenty percent less.
Speaker 3: And that's not a really dirty club face by any means.
Speaker 3: I know people who haven't cleaned their clubs in four
Speaker 3: months than of mind four shots.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite little little golf tools is that
Speaker 2: little retractable. I clip it on my belt loop now
Speaker 2: and when I go chip, I'm pretty diligent. Now. It
Speaker 2: takes a little bit of work, but you got to
Speaker 2: go in there and scrub that club face clean when
Speaker 2: you're chipping, because it's not only spin Andrew, but you know,
Speaker 2: as we know, when the spin goes down, the launch
Speaker 2: pops straight up with it.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we like that low launch because it's
Speaker 3: almost like throwing darts. You know. We want that more
Speaker 3: direct approach because we can when we get the face
Speaker 3: to grip the cover of the golf ball, the ball
Speaker 3: launches lower, it spins more, and both of those factors
Speaker 3: provide us with the ability to have more control, we
Speaker 3: can regulate where that ball lands, and we can really
Speaker 3: stop that ball that much more precisely when we've got
Speaker 3: low launch, lower launch, higher spent.
Speaker 1: Marty, I have a question for you and dealing with
Speaker 1: kind of something you guys were chatting about a moment ago.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about this on the podcast as well,
Speaker 1: but I don't think I've ever asked you this question.
Speaker 1: You reach out to ambassadors at Ping for information and
Speaker 1: for you know, I mean feedback right from their players
Speaker 1: or you know, anybody really that's in your umbrella, right,
Speaker 1: How does the engineer team reach out to the ambassadors.
Speaker 1: How does that conversation go? I mean, are you sending
Speaker 1: out new clubs to Andrew, new wedges to Andrew and
Speaker 1: saying let me know what you think, Like, how does
Speaker 1: the back and forth work? Because it feels like such
Speaker 1: an open dialogue at Ping amongst everybody involved, And I
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever kind of got the answer on
Speaker 1: how you might get something from a vice versa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question, Shane. I think we what's fun about
Speaker 2: our ambassador team is they're so diverse, so we can
Speaker 2: go to Sasha McKenzie and he could run an academic,
Speaker 2: boxed in highly stringent PhD level study in his biomechanics lab. Right,
Speaker 2: and then we can go to Andrew. We've done this
Speaker 2: with Andrew, and we'll send him a couple of different
Speaker 2: wedges with different grinds on him. He'll run a test
Speaker 2: with high handicappers or ladies, you know, lady golfers. Andrew
Speaker 2: have done some work on you know, different weights, schaft weights,
Speaker 2: total weights designed and that's more of uh, you know,
Speaker 2: with the with the real visceral performance type of hann On.
Speaker 2: So we've done some very detailed formal player tests basically
Speaker 2: that Andrew has conducted for us, Right Andrew, which has
Speaker 2: been super fun. We have Stan Uttley on our team.
Speaker 2: He might be working with you know, elite or average
Speaker 2: golfers on short game specifically short game specifically putting how
Speaker 2: does the golfer respond to it? So it's been fun
Speaker 2: about our team, Shane. To answer your questions, they're all
Speaker 2: so diverse, they all have unique strengths. And Andrew's been
Speaker 2: a major part of doing some fun research with us
Speaker 2: when we've reached out on WEDG studies and some ladies' projects.
Speaker 2: And Andrew. I think one thing I want to talk
Speaker 2: to about here as a follow up to that would
Speaker 2: be kind of teaching and coaching both ladies and juniors
Speaker 2: and how that varies from you know, your everyday high
Speaker 2: handicapped male golfer Marty.
Speaker 3: I'm just started with juniors. I think the this one
Speaker 3: young guy thirteen years old, he's quite a small guy
Speaker 3: that I teach. That comes to mind, and all he
Speaker 3: wants to do is hit it longer and he wants
Speaker 3: to get long. And he's like, and every week I
Speaker 3: created this thing where we have a six bull speed
Speaker 3: challenge and so we measure we track his bull speed
Speaker 3: from week to week when he comes out, and it's
Speaker 3: keeping him patient and he's only growing at this speed.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, don't worry, trust me. In three years time,
Speaker 3: you're going to be driving at over three hundred. And
Speaker 3: it's hard for him to buy into it. He wants
Speaker 3: to get good, he wants to get long now. And
Speaker 3: the big challenge I try to paint, the big picture
Speaker 3: I try to paint for my juniors is we've got time.
Speaker 3: Let's look at the future. This is where we would
Speaker 3: like to be in three years, in six years, in
Speaker 3: ten years. And oftentimes it's a case of do you
Speaker 3: want to be the best thirteen year old golfer in
Speaker 3: the world or the best twenty three year old golfer
Speaker 3: in the world, because have you ever seen a picture
Speaker 3: of those really big checks, those big checks, You don't
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 1: Thirteen's you make a lot more money at twenty three.
Speaker 3: Exactly. You'd much rather be the best twenty three year
Speaker 3: old golfer. So let's be patient, Let's stay the course,
Speaker 3: let's keep working. We're going to work on a lot
Speaker 3: of good things over the years. We're going to have
Speaker 3: some good days and some bad days, But it's just
Speaker 3: really keeping their mindset patient and not getting too up
Speaker 3: or down based on how the last round went. For
Speaker 3: lady golfers, I teach a lot of ladies, thankfully, and
Speaker 3: oftentimes the ladies that I encounter are fairly new to
Speaker 3: the game. They haven't played a lot of golf, and
Speaker 3: they would like to feel comfortable. They don't want to
Speaker 3: be overwhelmed with five wedges in their bag and the three, five, seven,
Speaker 3: nine woods that oftentimes their husbands have put in their
Speaker 3: golf bag, and they want to know, okay off the tea.
Speaker 3: This is how high I t it, and I got
Speaker 3: a swing hard. Okay for my second shot. This is
Speaker 3: going to be my club of choice, and I go, okay,
Speaker 3: these are the two I want you to work between.
Speaker 3: One is a seven wood and one is a five hybrid.
Speaker 3: You can fall in love with either one, but I
Speaker 3: want you to fall in love with one of them,
Speaker 3: and that's oftentimes going to be your second shot club.
Speaker 3: And then from there we're going to go, okay, eight
Speaker 3: RN nine iron wedge and a sand wedge. You're gonna
Speaker 3: pick one of those and we're going to play those next.
Speaker 3: To get the ball on the green, Let's get good
Speaker 3: at that shot. Let's pitch the ball to the middle
Speaker 3: of the green and then two putts and go from
Speaker 3: there and really start to have some fun. I try
Speaker 3: to downplay the importance of score score card competing. Let's
Speaker 3: go out, have a good time, try to hit some
Speaker 3: shots that get up in the air, and just enjoy
Speaker 3: it first, because once a junior can learn to love
Speaker 3: the game, once any beginner can learn to love the game,
Speaker 3: they'll come back to learn it later. Let's get early
Speaker 3: to the game, golfers. Let's get them to love it
Speaker 3: first and get them to have a great time and
Speaker 3: hit some fun shots. My goal in every beginner lesson
Speaker 3: is I want at the end of the lesson, we've
Speaker 3: got this ball teed up really high, they've got driver
Speaker 3: in hand, and they're hard and I want them to
Speaker 3: hit a shot that makes them go Wow. That was amazing.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to do that again.
Speaker 1: Andrew, can you tell us a little bit about coach
Speaker 1: Camp how it got off the ground?
Speaker 3: Thanks for asking. Coach Camp is something my wife and
Speaker 3: I have put together. We've been doing it for coming
Speaker 3: up on, coming up on eight years now. I actually
Speaker 3: got invited to be a presenter at a fellow golf
Speaker 3: coaches event where he was doing a day and he
Speaker 3: brought some other coaches in and I said to him,
Speaker 3: I said, this is fantastic. I'd love to, with your permission,
Speaker 3: have the ability to be able to recreate this just
Speaker 3: on a little bigger scale. And that's where I got
Speaker 3: the idea. And it's really been so much fun over
Speaker 3: the year, Shane, and we've had just about every coach
Speaker 3: certainly in the top twenty has presented at coach Camp.
Speaker 3: We've had some great stories, some great experiences, ranging from
Speaker 3: Gigi flings off the stage to anyone who was willing
Speaker 3: to catch one, to Joe Mayo pontificating and holding court
Speaker 3: at night, and Sean Foley presenting on Bruce Lee, and
Speaker 3: just some things that come to mind. But it's been
Speaker 3: a very fun event but also tremendously educational. I know
Speaker 3: I've learned a tremendous amount, and the coaches that I
Speaker 3: invite are typically the ones that I would like to
Speaker 3: learn from, and I feel I've like I've got a
Speaker 3: lot to learn, But it's getting harder and harder to
Speaker 3: find fresh new coaches. I would always I'd love to
Speaker 3: find somebody who's a coach, But outside of the sport
Speaker 3: of golf, I think there's a tremendous amount we can
Speaker 3: learn there in so many different ways, be at the
Speaker 3: mental side, or the physical side, or just the coaching
Speaker 3: of young people. So many different avenues that we can
Speaker 3: look at. But it's been a great journey so far, and.
Speaker 2: I've loved going to coach Camp. A couple of times
Speaker 2: i've been, and our team's been going there. I just
Speaker 2: love everything you've done to help. In the golf coaching community,
Speaker 2: all wants to help each other, right, everyone can have
Speaker 2: their own identity, their own expertise, their own philosophies. But
Speaker 2: I just love that you've brought everyone together with coach
Speaker 2: Camp to share share those ideas. I know certainly we
Speaker 2: come away from there often with more questions unanswered than answered,
Speaker 2: and that is a beautiful thing. It kind of keeps
Speaker 2: us going on this journey to try to investigate all
Speaker 2: of the little mysteries of this game, whether it's design, coaching, fitting, performance,
Speaker 2: golf science, you name it.
Speaker 3: And Martie, certainly thank you to you and everybody at PING.
Speaker 3: You guys have been a big supporter of coach Camp
Speaker 3: and certainly been a big reason why it's continued to
Speaker 3: happen each and every year. So thank you for your
Speaker 3: support and pull and Eric and Chris and yourself and
Speaker 3: everyone comes out and shared some amazing information. It's very
Speaker 3: cool to see actually over the last few years how
Speaker 3: Poll and Eric pulled, doctor Paul Wood, doctor Eric Hendrickson,
Speaker 3: who are engineers here at PING, and how their information
Speaker 3: has really improved them. They've gotten to the point now
Speaker 3: where I know certain people who come to coach Camp
Speaker 3: they're not really interested in listening to the coaches. They
Speaker 3: want to listen to the PhDs and learn some new
Speaker 3: nuggets what those guys are going to be sharing. So
Speaker 3: it's great to see.
Speaker 1: As long as somebody is learning, right, Andrew, listen, we
Speaker 1: could talk to you for another hour and a half,
Speaker 1: I think, and we were definitely gonna have you on
Speaker 1: again because I think this is just scratching a surface
Speaker 1: on all that you do for golf and all that
Speaker 1: you do for ping. So we appreciate the time. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for the insight, and let's schedule another pod
Speaker 1: at some point because we'd love to get you back on.
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: Thanks Chance, I appreciate the opportunity. Cheers.
Speaker 1: That's Andrew Rice. This is the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast.