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Speaker 1: The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how

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Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can

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Speaker 1: hit any shot I kind of want.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about

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Speaker 2: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Pink proven Grounds podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.

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Speaker 1: That is Marty Jerts and Marty. We're gonna tackle a

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Speaker 1: topic that I'm assuming people that listen to this podcast

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Speaker 1: are gonna be excited about today. I mean, who better

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Speaker 1: to chat about high handicap golf than us with Andrew Rice.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Andrew's been an ambassador for us for a number

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Speaker 2: of years now, and I think, Shane, what what comes

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Speaker 2: back to me when I think of Andrew is when

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Speaker 2: we were in the archives with Rob Griffin, our historian,

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Speaker 2: and he said that Carston Solheim's mission was to help

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Speaker 2: the average golfer. Well, I think that, really, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think embodies Andrew and what he's what he's trying

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Speaker 2: to do on the teaching and coaching side. I could

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Speaker 2: be more excited to talk to him about it.

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Speaker 3: Guys, Thanks so much, Andrew.

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Speaker 1: When when you dive into the world a high handicap golf.

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Speaker 1: I mean as somebody that is awful at instruction and

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Speaker 1: really doesn't have any idea of how to help any

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Speaker 1: golfer in the world. I try to help my buddies,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't go so well. Where do you start, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's the first step to someone that is struggling to

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Speaker 1: break one hundred or struggling to break ninety.

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Speaker 3: I think for me, you know, I regard the foundation

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Speaker 3: of golf as the hitting of the golf ball. I

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Speaker 3: often say to people, it's not that the short game

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Speaker 3: and putting doesn't matter, but if we're getting the ball

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Speaker 3: up and down and we're holding these twenty foot PUDs

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Speaker 3: for doubles and triples, that doesn't make a whole big

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Speaker 3: of a difference. And so it's really ultimately about the

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Speaker 3: hitting of the golf ball. I like to look at

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Speaker 3: the ball flight, what's the golf ball doing, how far

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Speaker 3: is it going, how high is it flying, how much

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Speaker 3: is it curving, and then back things up from there

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Speaker 3: and say, okay, let's talk. I like to interview my students,

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Speaker 3: talk to them and say, tell me what's ailing, what's happening,

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Speaker 3: what's going wrong, and how can I help you? To

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Speaker 3: start to have more joy out on the golf course.

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Speaker 3: That really what it's got to be all about.

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Speaker 2: I think Andrew is going to be one of my

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Speaker 2: first questions too, is what brings you? What kind of

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Speaker 2: motivates you to teach golfers every day? What brings you

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Speaker 2: the most joy or excitement when you wake up? I mean,

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Speaker 2: I've never seen you lack excitement and enthusiasm when you're

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Speaker 2: interacting with other teachers and then your students. What is

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Speaker 2: that motivating factor for you?

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Speaker 3: Party people are coming to me because there's invariably something

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Speaker 3: wrong and they're looking to leisure time. We all greatly

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Speaker 3: value our leisure time, and for most of us, golf

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Speaker 3: is a big part of that leisure time, and we

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Speaker 3: want to be able to go out there and take

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Speaker 3: advantage of that opportunity. We've got to be out enjoying

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Speaker 3: the game, and the better we play, the more fun

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Speaker 3: we have. And so I really want to help people,

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Speaker 3: just like I said earlier, enjoy themselves, have more joy

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Speaker 3: when they're out on the golf course. And you guys

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Speaker 3: both know it. If you're playing well, it's a lot

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Speaker 3: more fun out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just when I you know, I

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Speaker 1: think about when I'm struggling with my golf game, like

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Speaker 1: I'm currently in a bit of a funk with my

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Speaker 1: golf game right now, and you feel very lost, like

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Speaker 1: nothing really makes a lot of sense. And of course

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Speaker 1: the scary part is then your brain gets in the way.

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Speaker 1: Right now you're thinking is it golf swing? Is it

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Speaker 1: my alignment?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I hitting the right club? You start

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Speaker 1: to question everything when you have people approach you for

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Speaker 1: a first time. I'm assuming that all of those characteristics

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Speaker 1: are coming with them. It's like a lot of baggage, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean they've got two or three bags they're checking

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Speaker 1: on the flight. How do you a focus on bag

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Speaker 1: number one, which either is golf swing, brain, whatever the

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Speaker 1: case may be. And then what is a when from

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Speaker 1: a first lesson or a first experience with somebody that

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Speaker 1: comes your way, is it just clearing the clouds? Like

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Speaker 1: what is a victory for you off the bat?

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Speaker 3: One of the questions I ask all of my students

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Speaker 3: when I meet them for the first time, Shane, is

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Speaker 3: what would you be happy with walking off this lesson

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Speaker 3: tea today? And so they're going to tell me straight away, Okay,

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Speaker 3: gives me insight as to what's ailing, what they're looking

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Speaker 3: to achieve, and I've linked over the years give them that,

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Speaker 3: do everything I can do to give them that, and

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Speaker 3: so what would they like to achieve? And then spend

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Speaker 3: our time together working towards that. If we've got extra

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Speaker 3: time and we can get that done very quickly, then

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Speaker 3: we're going to look at some other things that might

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Speaker 3: add to this cherry on the top, so to speak.

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Speaker 3: But I really want to help them achieve their objective.

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Speaker 3: It's oftentimes bullflight. They want to hit it longer, they

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Speaker 3: want to hit it higher, they want to hit it straighter,

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Speaker 3: they want to strike it better. And I'm going to

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Speaker 3: get them there and then do what I can to

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Speaker 3: provide them with the tools necessary so they can start

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Speaker 3: to revisit that space more often.

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Speaker 2: Andrew, how has golf instruction changed since you first got

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Speaker 2: into it? I think you kind of I admired before

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Speaker 2: we got to know each other, seeing how you were

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Speaker 2: an early adopter of track Man using it to do

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Speaker 2: research projects. Quite frankly, when it first came out, it

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Speaker 2: was a fancy tool, and the golf instruction they kind

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Speaker 2: of out crowdsourced the you know, research projects to golf instructors.

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Speaker 2: You latched onto that early and did some research with it.

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Speaker 2: How has tools and technology track Man, for example, maybe

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Speaker 2: some more contemporary tools change your approach to teaching. What

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Speaker 2: has that kind of journey or evolution been like for

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Speaker 2: you already?

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Speaker 3: A lot of teachers will say, well, so and so,

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Speaker 3: Butch Harmon was my mentor. David Ledbetter was my mentor,

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Speaker 3: and I suddenly started teaching working for David Ledbetter. I

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Speaker 3: would have to say that golf technology most importantly, track

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Speaker 3: Man was my mentor in that it taught me what

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Speaker 3: causes the ball to fly a certain way and what

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Speaker 3: numbers to look for. And I know this might sound

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Speaker 3: a little technical, but it really isn't. I look at

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Speaker 3: track Man as a great field machine, a great piece

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Speaker 3: of field generating technology, and so I use track Man

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Speaker 3: early on to gain some insight as to what causes

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Speaker 3: the ball to make that great sound, fly that beautiful

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Speaker 3: little tight draw, what are the numbers that are affiliated

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Speaker 3: with that? And if I've got a student and there

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Speaker 3: are long ways away from that, we're almost always trying

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Speaker 3: to neutralize what they're doing and work them back to

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Speaker 3: a straight or ball flight. A more appropriate trajectory, and

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Speaker 3: we don't want anything to extreme. And so track Man

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Speaker 3: that teaching technology has been really integral for me as

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Speaker 3: a teacher to teach me what really matters. It's not

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Speaker 3: so much the look of the golf swing. It's far

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Speaker 3: more about the function of the golf swing. And I

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Speaker 3: think of Jim Furick and Aim and Dorcy and some

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Speaker 3: of those classic unique golf swings. Kelvin Pete and those

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Speaker 3: players could really make the ball sound great, fly straight

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Speaker 3: down towards their target, and that's ultimately what we're looking for.

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Speaker 3: It shouldn't necessarily be about trying to get every golfer

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Speaker 3: to look like Adam Scott. I want everyone's different, everybody's unique.

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Speaker 3: You guys are both fantastic players. I was thinking, if

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Speaker 3: there ever is a podcast open where they invite two

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Speaker 3: players for each podcast, I know where I'm going to

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Speaker 3: put my money. You guys would be a pretty strong

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Speaker 3: squad there. But just to give people some insights as

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Speaker 3: to how can you take your golf swing and start

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Speaker 3: to use what you do to hit better shots. That

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Speaker 3: doesn't have to be this revamp. You don't have to

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Speaker 3: build this beautiful Adam Scott looking golf swing. It can

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Speaker 3: be with what you have, just perhaps a little change

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Speaker 3: out address, some ball position, maybe even some equipment upgrades

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Speaker 3: to get that ball starting to obey what you're trying

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Speaker 3: to get it to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew, it's a great point, because the idea of

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Speaker 1: an overhaul to the golf swing for an adult golfer,

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody that's got a job and they've got

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Speaker 1: a day, a weekly game they play, and they've got kids,

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Speaker 1: they've got a family. The idea of a complete overall,

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Speaker 1: which maybe some golfers need, is very intimidated and quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: something most people are not going to be that interested in.

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Speaker 1: So you have to almost push that to the side

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Speaker 1: and focus on very very small tweaks to help a

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Speaker 1: golfer out, and that is not a very easy thing

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Speaker 1: to do. One thing I do find so interesting I've

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Speaker 1: already already mentioned it is attitude is such an important

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Speaker 1: part of instruction. I mean, if you show up to

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Speaker 1: the first t and you're in a bad mood, or

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Speaker 1: you're not having a great day, or you don't seem

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Speaker 1: like you want to be there, then the player is

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Speaker 1: not going to get adequate advice or at least what

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Speaker 1: they feel like they're paying to get and you seem

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Speaker 1: like someone that brings the positivity, you know, brings kind

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Speaker 1: of an upbeat personality to that first tee and at

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Speaker 1: the same time understands that not everybody's showing up is

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Speaker 1: down to change their entire golf swing like Tiger did

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Speaker 1: five times.

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Speaker 3: Correct, correct, what you know, Tiger, what Tiger is? We

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Speaker 3: all know this amazing and he is here's the outlier,

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Speaker 3: exactly right, exactly right. And so people would love to

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Speaker 3: have the ability to do what Tiger has done on

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Speaker 3: multiple occasions. But that thing called life gets in the way,

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Speaker 3: and it's family and its work, and it's I've only

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Speaker 3: got so much time that I can dedicate towards golf.

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Speaker 3: Give me what you can so that I can fit

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Speaker 3: that into my little window, my little golf window. I

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Speaker 3: can go out and practice, maybe even hit fifteen balls

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Speaker 3: before I go out to play. What can I feel

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Speaker 3: and think and maybe do something at home in front

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Speaker 3: of the mirror to start to help me hit some

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Speaker 3: better shots.

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Speaker 2: And got it.

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Speaker 3: It's taken a long time, but I think I finally

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Speaker 3: realize why you look at all those golf digests and

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Speaker 3: golf dot Com top teacher lists, and there's not a

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Speaker 3: lot of twenty five year old teachers on the list.

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Speaker 3: And I realize why, because it just takes a long

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Speaker 3: time to be able to interpret and understand people, not

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Speaker 3: so much golf swings, but just people. And I'm going

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Speaker 3: to talk and I'm going to ask my students questions

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Speaker 3: and hopefully that's going to give me some insight as

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Speaker 3: to who they are and what's going to help them

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Speaker 3: and how I can best help them.

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Speaker 1: Marty, I was thinking about this in terms of ping

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the technology that we've talked about

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Speaker 1: on this podcast, because something you've done such a great

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Speaker 1: job with, you know, so many of the tools and

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Speaker 1: AI and things like that, is to try to get

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Speaker 1: people to feel comfortable making a change without having to

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Speaker 1: go to the golf course and change it on the

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Speaker 1: range or on the golf course, or spend those months

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Speaker 1: maybe even introducing to equipment, you know, via the popularity

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Speaker 1: of the seven wood or the crossovers booming popularity over

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Speaker 1: the last few years. The technology that you've worked so

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Speaker 1: hard on has made this easier for golfers to feel

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Speaker 1: more comfortable just putting a new golf club in their bag.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a magical thing, Shane.

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Speaker 2: When you can go out and let's say golfers never

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Speaker 2: hit a seven wood, they hear about it on the podcast,

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Speaker 2: they see tour players using it, they go get one.

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Speaker 2: They can make their same swing with those characteristics and

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Speaker 2: trades to start hitting good shots immediately. I think that's

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Speaker 2: our own way of kind of bringing some immediate joy

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Speaker 2: into this game. Andrew, on the topic of equipment, what

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Speaker 2: are some because you see a lot of folks come

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Speaker 2: through through your clinics and your schools that you do,

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Speaker 2: and you have seen you've one of your biggest roles

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Speaker 2: with us as a brand ambassadors to represent the people.

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Speaker 2: And what are you seeing out there in terms of

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Speaker 2: what does their bag look like? What are some equipment

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Speaker 2: mistakes they are making? And then you know we can

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Speaker 2: design into those gaps or better message those gaps fit

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Speaker 2: those gaps. What are some big mistakes you see common

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Speaker 2: mistakes you see in the high handicaper everyday golfers golf bags.

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Speaker 3: Right now, Marty, I must say, over the last few years,

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Speaker 3: I think you guys have done an excellent job in

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Speaker 3: getting longer irons out of golfers bags. That's a great thing.

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Speaker 3: They've been replaced with some nice hybrids that can help

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Speaker 3: the bull get up in the air. But I must

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Speaker 3: say I still see three woods. I still see, in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, too many three woods, and the average golfer,

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Speaker 3: a certainly male golfer out there. Lady golfers most often

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Speaker 3: do not need a three wood, but the average male

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Speaker 3: almost feels like they need to be a man and

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Speaker 3: they need to I need a three wood, you know,

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Speaker 3: Give me a driver and a three wood. I'll have

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Speaker 3: some other things beyond that. But far too many golfers

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Speaker 3: still have three woods in their bag. And that's a

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Speaker 3: load line drive type ballflight. And I just see golfers

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Speaker 3: getting so much more out of You mentioned the seven

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Speaker 3: out of the five, perhaps something they can get up

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Speaker 3: in the air. And I still see far too many

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Speaker 3: golfers with that traditional fifteen degree three wood that they're

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Speaker 3: trying to hit off the deck and really not having

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Speaker 3: much joy with.

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Speaker 2: Shane, we have some very interesting data on that, so

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Speaker 2: Andrew brings up the three wood. We mind our Arcos

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Speaker 2: data and found that golfers who hit the ball hit

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Speaker 2: their driver two hundred and fifty yards hit the threewood

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Speaker 2: off the tee fifty percent of the time and off

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Speaker 2: the ground fifty percent of the time. But Andrew, if

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Speaker 2: you hit your driver two hundred yards, you're hitting your

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Speaker 2: three wood or your lowest lofted fairrywood eighty percent of

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Speaker 2: the time off the ground twenty percent off the tee.

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Speaker 2: But if you drive it three hundred you hit it

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Speaker 2: eighty percent of the time off the tee and twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of the time off the ground. So I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, we use that in fitting because if you're

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Speaker 2: a fast clubbed speed player, you want to focus on

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Speaker 2: your three wood more as a t shot club. You're saying,

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Speaker 2: you're seeing the everyday golfer hit you know what, need

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Speaker 2: to play a three wood, and we know the data

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Speaker 2: shows they need that thing getting off the ground very

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Speaker 2: easily eighty percent of the time, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I would if you can perhaps work some magic, Marty,

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Speaker 3: and please build this amazing fairway wood club. You can

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Speaker 3: even put a big giant three on the bottom, say

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Speaker 3: everyone feels good, but just give it like a five

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Speaker 3: or seven. Would love to shoot that thing up in

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Speaker 3: the air. That would be awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, just the approach shots. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know you're hitting shots into par fours, and I mean

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Speaker 1: you're hitting these, you know, in theory, hitting a fairywood

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Speaker 1: on a lot of par threes. I mean, why not

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Speaker 1: make that easier on yourself versus having to absolutely make

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Speaker 1: the perfect swing with the three wood?

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Speaker 2: For sure. Yeah, and I think our sft andrews a

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Speaker 2: great option there. You know, by a standard loft sixteen degrees,

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Speaker 2: you can obviously tweak it up with the sleeve turns

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Speaker 2: over a little bit easier. But yeah, we've been doing

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Speaker 2: some things to make our fairwoods get up in the

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Speaker 2: air a lot easier, moving the center of gravity lower,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. But I'm so glad you highlighted that that

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Speaker 2: three wood is an area as we've seen recently last

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Speaker 2: five years, probably as a trend, more folks being comfortable

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Speaker 2: getting those long irons out of their back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I really do think I think golph is

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Speaker 3: starting to be okay with, particularly the man golf is

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Speaker 3: that I teach, they're starting to be okay with something

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Speaker 3: with more loft as they're primary fairway would But there's

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Speaker 3: still so many people out there who believe they've got

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Speaker 3: to get a driver and a three wood, and that

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Speaker 3: really isn't the.

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Speaker 1: Case Andrew, you mentioned equipment and a big mistake that

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Speaker 1: high handicappers make in terms of their equipment. What would

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Speaker 1: you say is the number one thing you feel like

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Speaker 1: high handicappers struggle with that is almost consistent throughout people

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Speaker 1: that come to see you. What's the is it? Is

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Speaker 1: it alignment? Is it not understanding their own distances? What

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Speaker 1: do you feel like is the number one thing you

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Speaker 1: almost see every single time you have a higher handicap

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Speaker 1: come your way.

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Speaker 3: The universal thing. I'm glad you asked this question, Shane.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a goodie. The universal thing is how

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Speaker 3: far do I hit the golf ball? And I love

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Speaker 3: you know, I'll have someone on track, man and they've

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Speaker 3: hit five or six seven irons, and I'll go, so,

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Speaker 3: how far do you normally hit a seven itro And

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at the real data, and they go, uh,

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Speaker 3: one sixty five? And I know that I swing, you know,

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Speaker 3: ten to fifty miles an hour faster than them, and

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Speaker 3: my carry with a seven iron is like one sixty four,

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Speaker 3: and yet they hit it one sixty five. And I'm going, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's weird, because I've just seen you carry your best

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Speaker 3: one carried one thirty eight, and I think it's twofold.

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Speaker 3: Number one is golfers seem to have latched onto how

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Speaker 3: far they hit a seven nine in a total capacity,

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Speaker 3: what the land plus role is and total is dependent

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Speaker 3: on course conditions. The golfer is responsible for the carry,

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Speaker 3: the golf course is responsible for the total, and I'd

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Speaker 3: love for golfers to start to get a better idea

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Speaker 3: as to what the actual carry number is. It might

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Speaker 3: be a hard pill to swallow, I know that, but

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Speaker 3: you will play better golf. And ultimately you're listening to

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Speaker 3: this because you might want to pick up a nugget

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Speaker 3: or two to help you play better golf. Find out

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Speaker 3: what your carry numbers are first and then second, and

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Speaker 3: let's get rid of the ego. Let's we know that

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Speaker 3: back in nineteen ninety one you used to hit a

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Speaker 3: seven arn a lot further. But today is today, and

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Speaker 3: we're happy to be playing golf. If you can have

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Speaker 3: a carry number that is accurate, you cannot help but

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Speaker 3: play better golf. And we all know this. If golfers

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Speaker 3: can start to hit more greens, they simply have to

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Speaker 3: score lower. They have to have more fun out there.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Andrew, I absolutely love that and that's what the

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Speaker 2: you know, I think we hear and when I've played

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Speaker 2: in tour events, it's all about that carry number, like

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Speaker 2: you know, where do you want that ball to pitch?

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely what you can control. I love that. I

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Speaker 2: think a couple of tools out there for the listener

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Speaker 2: that they can use. One, you can measure your actual

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Speaker 2: tendencies on course with a tool like our ghost number one,

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Speaker 2: and that's been really fun to showcase. Andrew, we've seen

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Speaker 2: some of all the data. I'm sure you've seen it

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Speaker 2: for your individual students are on the big data of

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Speaker 2: what percentage of the time golfers come up short on

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Speaker 2: the golf course, right and it with their irons. It

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Speaker 2: is a party.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a number on it? Do you have

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Speaker 1: an idea of what the number is?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just kind of a heat map, and I

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Speaker 2: guess for the listener out there, maybe picture the shape

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Speaker 2: of like a pair, you know, where the pin is

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Speaker 2: at the top and the rest of the heat map

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Speaker 2: is down there underneath. That's kind of what it looks

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Speaker 2: like for everybody, you know. So that's a fun one.

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Speaker 2: And then number two, Shame with our gaping app and

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Speaker 2: co pilot are folks who come in and get fit.

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Speaker 2: This is kind of an unintended consequence of that tool

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Speaker 2: is we give you a projected carry distance of all

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Speaker 2: your clubs, and we have our folks can can come

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Speaker 2: get fit and use that copilot and they get their

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Speaker 2: carry distances and then you can go play golf and

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Speaker 2: double check them. But Andrew, that's a way we can

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Speaker 2: really help that golfer without them having to go because

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Speaker 2: it takes a long time to go do it full

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Speaker 2: gaping and hit all your clubs and enough good shots.

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Speaker 2: We can kind of calculate that estimate. That forum has

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Speaker 2: been super duper helpful.

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Speaker 3: That is massive. And to me, Marty, that's like the

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Speaker 3: low hanging fruit.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: That makes my job as an instructor easier. I'm helping

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Speaker 3: my students save strokes without really changing their golf swing

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Speaker 3: at all. It's just let's get a better understanding, let's

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Speaker 3: get some good accurate information, and you can straight away

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Speaker 3: go out for the next round you play. You can

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Speaker 3: start to hit more greens, save some strokes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew, this is one of my biggest complaints about

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Speaker 1: golfers in general, is you spend so much of your

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Speaker 1: life focused on the game of golf, whether it be

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Speaker 1: you know, wanting to travel with your buddies and play

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Speaker 1: golf trips, or you're grinding to get that handicapped down.

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Speaker 1: Yet you don't really understand anything about your own golf game.

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Speaker 1: And this goes through a couple things we've talked about,

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Speaker 1: a equipment understanding what best is for you, and it's

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Speaker 1: maddening running into people that aren't getting fit routinely for

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Speaker 1: golf equipment because again, you're investing so much your life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, imagine a country club membership. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: you're these days you're laying down at minimum twenty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars at maximum. I don't even know how much a

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Speaker 1: million dollars for country club membership. Yet yeah, you're you're not.

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Speaker 1: You don't totally understand what your bag is about. And

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Speaker 1: then your point about the actual carry numbers is not

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Speaker 1: having a total grasp of how far you hit every

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Speaker 1: single club is just doing yourself a disservice. Right. It's

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Speaker 1: like driving a car and this phenometer being off right

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Speaker 1: and you're like, I think I'm going fifty five, officer,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, like it doesn't make a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense.

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Speaker 3: It really does. And it's easy stuff. It's the problem

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Speaker 3: is it's not sexy, it's not appealing. It's not like,

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Speaker 3: Oh I saw you know, John Rams downswing and I

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Speaker 3: want to get mine to look like that. Well, John

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Speaker 3: Ram's done a lot of stuff to know how far

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Speaker 3: his clubs go, to get himself fitted, to get himself

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Speaker 3: in the right equipment, and then he gets up and

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Speaker 3: hits the ball. Let's start there and we can really

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Speaker 3: have a good hits start on playing better golf.

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Speaker 2: Andrew, let's go back to track Man a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and the listener of the Ping proven Grounds podcast, there's

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Speaker 2: some techi's out there, so it's okay to talk a

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Speaker 2: little techy here. What are some of the maybe key

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Speaker 2: club delivery and or ball metrics you really hone into.

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Speaker 2: You could pick maybe a seven iron andrew or a driver.

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Speaker 2: You know, are you looking at path face? You know,

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Speaker 2: horizontal swing plane? And how how do you kind of

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Speaker 2: manipulate those things? What you know? How what numbers are

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Speaker 2: you kind of using as your guideline for those metrics

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Speaker 2: you're looking at?

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Speaker 3: Marty? Firstly, I don't really I'm not overly concerned with

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Speaker 3: the shape of somebody shot as long as it's appropriate,

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Speaker 3: as long as it's not too much, it's not extreme.

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00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 3: If fades work just as well as draws, and I'm

436
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 3: sorry to let everybody know that, but that's a fact.

437
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 3: You don't necessarily have to hit a draw in order

438
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 3: to play good goal fades can work just as well.

439
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 3: I'm looking for something club pathwise three degrees out to

440
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: end three degrees into out. When we're hitting shots off

441
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 3: the ground, I'm looking for a mild downward strike anywhere

442
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 3: between one point five and five point zero ish. If

443
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 3: we're talking irons being struck off the ground, I'm going

444
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 3: to An interesting thing is the dynamic loft. What is

445
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 3: dynamic loft? It's the loft of the face at impact.

446
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 3: What does the golf ball experience the dynamic loft? And

447
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 3: a lot of golf coaches and golfers don't really get

448
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 3: and understand the role that those two need to play,

449
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: the two being club speed and dynamic loft. And I

450
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 3: do believe we've got to match those up. The higher

451
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 3: the speed, the lower the dynamic loft needs to be.

452
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 3: I know that, Marty. If you hit a seven iron

453
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 3: that launches at twenty degrees and I hit a seven

454
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: iron that launches at twenty degrees, your ball's going to

455
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 3: go significantly higher than mine because your club speed ball

456
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 3: speed is higher. And ultimately, if you launch a seven

457
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 3: at twenty degrees, that's not a good thing for you

458
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 3: because You're ball is going to go too high and

459
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 3: it's going to be out of control. You know that

460
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: better than everybody really. But for the golfer with that

461
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 3: slower club speed, they need to launch the ball at

462
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 3: twenty and so that's something that I'm going to look for. Yeah,

463
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 3: club path, attack angle, club speed, but I really want

464
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 3: to tie that club speed to an appropriate dynamic loft

465
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: because that's going to be that trajectory factor. So many

466
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 3: golfers that I teach will typically hit the ball too low,

467
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: and if I run into somebody who's hitting it too high,

468
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 3: it's just weak and ineffective. Well, then we're going to

469
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: try to bring the loft down, but we are going

470
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 3: to I'm certainly going to try to marry their club

471
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 3: speed with that club to an appropriate dynamic loft because

472
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 3: that gets the ball to a playable hype where it's

473
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 3: not overly high and gets out of control, and it

474
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 3: gets up enough to where it can land and stuff.

475
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,959
Speaker 1: On a Andrew, I wanted to ask about practice, especially

476
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: for high handicap golfers. I mean, so much of the

477
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: time we hear just focus on one hundred yards and

478
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: end focus on pitching and chipping and putting. What do

479
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,959
Speaker 1: you tell people that come your way about practice if

480
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: they have an hour to practice? How do you break

481
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: that down for high handicap players?

482
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 3: Shane? Firstly, I'm overjoyed if they have an hour that

483
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 3: they can practice, that's a good start, Okay, if you

484
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 3: want to get better, you simply have to practice. You

485
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 3: cannot listen to a podcast or watch an instructional video.

486
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: Telling that answer.

487
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: Yes, they can, they might not subscribe.

488
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: This is where they're getting the gold that they've got

489
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: to get out there and go and practice. Firstly, I

490
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: would say this, I think driver practice is underrepresented. I'd

491
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: like to see golfers hit a lot more drivers. I'd

492
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: like to see golfers actually practice generating more speed. How

493
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: do you do that? I think at the end of

494
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 3: your practice session, reserve anywhere from a dozen to twenty

495
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 3: golf balls and you're loose, you're ready to go, and ideally,

496
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 3: if you've got some kind of feedback device, helping you

497
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 3: with club speed or ball speed. You're going to get

498
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: up there and try to rip those golf balls as

499
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: hard as you can, just to see what you can do.

500
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 3: There's also another great teaching aid that Marty might know about,

501
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: called the stack. That's fantastic. This is not meant to

502
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: be a plug for the stack, by the way, I

503
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 3: think it's a fantastic tool and it's invaluable in helping

504
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: golfers hit their golf ball closer to the green. If

505
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 3: you think about what golf is, it's what are we

506
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 3: trying to do on irons. We're trying to get the

507
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 3: right distance so we can have our ball finished closer

508
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 3: to the hole when we're chipping, pitching, closer to the

509
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 3: hole when we're putting in the hole. The same goes

510
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: for t shots. Let's practice our driver so that a

511
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: we can make it go a long way and b

512
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: we can work towards keeping it in play. I'd love

513
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 3: to see golfers spend more time practicing with their driver.

514
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 3: And then I don't think that block practice has received

515
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: much of a good rap over the last few years,

516
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 3: and it is my opinion that every golfer needs to

517
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: do some degree some amount of block practice, and then

518
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 3: work from block. And what is block practice. It's a

519
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 3: seven iron. You're working on your swing and you're just

520
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: hitting a bunch of seven irons all to the same target.

521
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: You're trying to get a feel for that motion, that strike,

522
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 3: that new change that you might be working on. Spend

523
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 3: some time doing that, But then I would love for

524
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: you to go, okay, I need to take this and

525
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: change this, work this over into the golf course, because

526
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: so often golfers will say, Andrew, I'm good on the range,

527
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 3: I'm horrible on the course. I know, if you're listening,

528
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people nodding their heads right now.

529
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: Marity and I are not.

530
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: How can we possibly make well, make it better. We

531
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: can never recreate the golf course on the range, but

532
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 3: we can get closer. And instead of just hitting fifty

533
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: seven irons and going I think I got this, Today's

534
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: going to be a great day. And you step on

535
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: the first d and that thing's in the water off

536
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: the first t. That's because the manner in which you

537
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: practiced had very little to do with what is required

538
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 3: on the golf course, and so spend a portion of

539
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 3: your practice time hitting golf course style shots, pick out

540
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 3: a target, rotate clubs frequently, try to hit to the

541
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 3: sides of targets, use your preshot routine. And then I think,

542
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: now you're practicing. Now you're preparing to go out and

543
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: play ultimately better golf. Some block practice, some random practice

544
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: where you're trying to mirror imitate what you're doing out

545
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 3: on the golf course, and throw in a couple of

546
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: speed shots at the end, I think you're in good shape.

547
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: I love that, Andrew. I think that was one of

548
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: my biggest regrets in hindsight looking back in my own

549
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: golf career is overpracticing the fifty yard shot and underpracticing

550
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: my driver. So I love that idea, Marty.

551
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: I mean, the saying we heard for years was drive

552
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: for show and putt for doe. And I always said, well,

553
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 1: if you don't drive it in play and you're putting

554
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: for no dough, right, I mean, you know you've got

555
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: to at least get it in play. And I mean,

556
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 1: obviously we've seen how important the driver is in modern

557
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: golf in the way modern equipment has made it is

558
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: the most important golf club in your back. I'd say,

559
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: even over the putter for a lot of players, especially

560
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: players that struggle to get it off the tee. Because

561
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: I was playing golf with a friend of mine in

562
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: the media a few weeks ago, and he's hitting his

563
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: driver a lot better than I'd seen it a few

564
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: months ago, and he goes, Shane, I realized that if

565
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: I can hit it two thirty off the tee and play,

566
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: I can be a guest anywhere in the world, you know.

567
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: I mean, if I can hit it two thirty off

568
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: the tee and relatively straight, I can be invited any

569
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: golf course in the world and not be embarrassed. And

570
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: it's so true, right like that lends itself to positivity.

571
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: You feel better about yourself. You're getting the ball in play,

572
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: you're in the hole if you're playing a match. I mean,

573
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: the driver is so much more important than I think

574
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: we used to give a credit for.

575
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I say this to a lot of my students.

576
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 3: Over the last twenty years, Strokes gained. The best statistical

577
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: putter on the PGA Tour has been a player by

578
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: the name of Denny McCarthy. And I say this, I

579
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 3: think Denny would trade some of his putting dough for

580
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: some of Rory's driving dough. You know, Rory, Rory's got

581
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: a lot of driving dough in his bank account. And

582
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: that's I mean, that's a big reason why Rory is Rory.

583
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: Not that Denny's bad. Denny's done a lovely job and

584
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 3: he's a fantastic putter, but the old drive for show

585
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: putt for dough is not one by any.

586
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: Means, Andrew. So far, we've talked a lot about ball striking,

587
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: which I think you framed very well. That's kind of

588
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: the foundation of golf. But you have done a lot

589
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: of tremendous work on short game, short game technique, helping

590
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: us with our wedge designs, evaluating our grinds, friction, spin generation.

591
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: You know, using track Man is a is a kind

592
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: of a research engine for a short game. I know

593
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: when you first did your Wedge video, was it called

594
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: the Wedge Project.

595
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: Andrew, the Wedge Project, Yeah, the Wedge.

596
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: Project almost ten years ago. Ten years ago, we had

597
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of we got a lot of golf junkies,

598
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: engineers around the office. I remember there right when it

599
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: first came out. They all bought it downloaded. They're watching

600
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: at their desks and still geeking out over it tell

601
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: us a little bit about the Wedge project, what you

602
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: kind of learned in that video and what would you

603
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: do over differently, what knowledge or insight do you have

604
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: about short game technique now that if you if you

605
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: refilm that or re edit it, would you would you

606
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: put in there party?

607
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: Firstly, the whole idea came to fruition because I wanted

608
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: to understand why when we're pitching, especially when we start

609
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: out pitching, we can hit that let's let's call it

610
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: a fifty yard shot, Okay, forty to fifty yard shot.

611
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: Why is it that sometimes we hit that shot and

612
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: that bull comes out nice and low, and it feels

613
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: great on the face, and it's got tons of check

614
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: on it, and then on the next swing we can

615
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: strike it and it feels quite similar. But the ball

616
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: seems to fly twice as high it launches up, it

617
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: seems to plummet out of the sky, hit and roll,

618
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: and I wanted to better understand that, and track Man

619
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 3: being what it is, I was tremendously helpful in being

620
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: able to gain some insights, as have a lot of

621
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 3: your friends. The engineers at PING been tremendously helpful in

622
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: helping me understand that as to what makes it work.

623
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: Why does that friction between the ball and the face

624
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 3: work sometimes and not others. And really, ultimately it's we

625
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 3: get matter trapped between the face and the golf ball.

626
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: Be it moisture, be at grass, those green dots on

627
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: the face. Whenever you hit a pitch shot or a

628
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 3: chip shot and you look down and you see that

629
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: green dots on the face, I promise you that golf

630
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: ball flew higher than you intended, it had less been

631
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: than you intended. And most often it is not your fault.

632
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: You didn't do anything wrong. It's just that matter got

633
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: trapped between the face and the golf ball. And the

634
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: moral of the story is this is clean your club.

635
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 3: Play a nice fresh wedge and a eurothane covered golf ball.

636
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: Spend the little bit of extra money that you need

637
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 3: to spend to get a quality golf ball, keep the

638
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: club clean, play a nice fresh wedge. You're going to

639
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 3: hit more of those low spinners. But understand, if you're

640
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: playing early in the morning and it's dewy out and

641
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: the ground is wet, you're going to launch the ball

642
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 3: much higher than anticipated. It's going to spend significantly less

643
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: than anticipated. That is, unless you're using a hydro ferb

644
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: hydrophobic ping wedge, which really does once again not a plug,

645
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: it just happens to be. It makes a tremendous difference

646
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 3: in spin rate anytime that coating that ping wedges have

647
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: really displaces the water, and the spin rates are actually

648
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: quite amazingly consistent from wet conditions to dry conditions.

649
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think yep, go ahead, go ahead, Marty. I

650
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: think that's the big thing we're trying to solve is

651
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: just that we want to provide the predictability to the golfer,

652
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: right and that and that low launch, high spin pitch

653
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: shot is quite fun to hit. But you nailed a

654
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: lot of the the key ingredients, and that's where you

655
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: have been super helpful of giving this push and pull

656
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: to us. Hey guys, I'm seeing this. Why does this happen?

657
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: I'm seeing golf my golfers do this. I'm seeing this

658
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: and testing why does it happen? That's helped push us

659
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: to answer those questions, innovate on better groove designs, better

660
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: finishes and things to help you and the ultimately the

661
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: everyday golfer and golf ball is a big part of that.

662
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: No doubt about it. I'm glad you brought that up

663
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: and being able to pull on all those levers to

664
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: create create spin.

665
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, player best. We're both on the same train. The

666
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: golfers play their best.

667
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: Andrew, I'm glad you mentioned the cleaning the face part

668
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: of the wedge experience because when I was when I

669
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: saw that on track man one time. You know what

670
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: a wedge, How a wedge reacts when it's totally clean

671
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: versus even a couple of shots in Yeah, I mean

672
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: it is. It is mind blowing. And I don't think

673
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: golfers quite understand how much they're giving up when they

674
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: don't clean their clubs every single swing. This goes back

675
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: to putting the time in right. Clean your clubs, have

676
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: new grips. I mean, these are things you can do

677
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: at home to help yourself out.

678
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 3: We did, I'll never forget we did a fairly significant

679
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: wedge test a couple of years ago and we had

680
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: players hit four shots with a wedge, hot hand them

681
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: another wedge, and they'd hit another four shots, and they

682
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 3: didn't really ever clean the club between the four shots,

683
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: and at the end. This was not the objective of

684
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: the test, but it just happened to be some information

685
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: that we could pull out, and I said, let's take

686
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: a look at spin rates from shot one where they

687
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 3: had a clean club to shot four, and there was

688
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: a nineteen percent lowering of spin rate from shot one

689
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 3: to shot four. So you hit three shots, your spin

690
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: rate on average is going to be twenty percent less.

691
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 3: And that's not a really dirty club face by any means.

692
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: I know people who haven't cleaned their clubs in four

693
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 3: months than of mind four shots.

694
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: One of my favorite little little golf tools is that

695
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 2: little retractable. I clip it on my belt loop now

696
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: and when I go chip, I'm pretty diligent. Now. It

697
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: takes a little bit of work, but you got to

698
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 2: go in there and scrub that club face clean when

699
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 2: you're chipping, because it's not only spin Andrew, but you know,

700
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: as we know, when the spin goes down, the launch

701
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: pops straight up with it.

702
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we like that low launch because it's

703
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 3: almost like throwing darts. You know. We want that more

704
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 3: direct approach because we can when we get the face

705
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 3: to grip the cover of the golf ball, the ball

706
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 3: launches lower, it spins more, and both of those factors

707
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 3: provide us with the ability to have more control, we

708
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: can regulate where that ball lands, and we can really

709
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: stop that ball that much more precisely when we've got

710
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: low launch, lower launch, higher spent.

711
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: Marty, I have a question for you and dealing with

712
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: kind of something you guys were chatting about a moment ago.

713
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about this on the podcast as well,

714
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: but I don't think I've ever asked you this question.

715
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 1: You reach out to ambassadors at Ping for information and

716
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: for you know, I mean feedback right from their players

717
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: or you know, anybody really that's in your umbrella, right,

718
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: How does the engineer team reach out to the ambassadors.

719
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: How does that conversation go? I mean, are you sending

720
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: out new clubs to Andrew, new wedges to Andrew and

721
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: saying let me know what you think, Like, how does

722
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: the back and forth work? Because it feels like such

723
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: an open dialogue at Ping amongst everybody involved, And I

724
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever kind of got the answer on

725
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: how you might get something from a vice versa.

726
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, great question, Shane. I think we what's fun about

727
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: our ambassador team is they're so diverse, so we can

728
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: go to Sasha McKenzie and he could run an academic,

729
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 2: boxed in highly stringent PhD level study in his biomechanics lab. Right,

730
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: and then we can go to Andrew. We've done this

731
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: with Andrew, and we'll send him a couple of different

732
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: wedges with different grinds on him. He'll run a test

733
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: with high handicappers or ladies, you know, lady golfers. Andrew

734
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 2: have done some work on you know, different weights, schaft weights,

735
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: total weights designed and that's more of uh, you know,

736
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 2: with the with the real visceral performance type of hann On.

737
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: So we've done some very detailed formal player tests basically

738
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: that Andrew has conducted for us, Right Andrew, which has

739
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: been super fun. We have Stan Uttley on our team.

740
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: He might be working with you know, elite or average

741
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 2: golfers on short game specifically short game specifically putting how

742
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: does the golfer respond to it? So it's been fun

743
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 2: about our team, Shane. To answer your questions, they're all

744
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: so diverse, they all have unique strengths. And Andrew's been

745
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: a major part of doing some fun research with us

746
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: when we've reached out on WEDG studies and some ladies' projects.

747
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: And Andrew. I think one thing I want to talk

748
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 2: to about here as a follow up to that would

749
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: be kind of teaching and coaching both ladies and juniors

750
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: and how that varies from you know, your everyday high

751
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: handicapped male golfer Marty.

752
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: I'm just started with juniors. I think the this one

753
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: young guy thirteen years old, he's quite a small guy

754
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: that I teach. That comes to mind, and all he

755
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 3: wants to do is hit it longer and he wants

756
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 3: to get long. And he's like, and every week I

757
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 3: created this thing where we have a six bull speed

758
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: challenge and so we measure we track his bull speed

759
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: from week to week when he comes out, and it's

760
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: keeping him patient and he's only growing at this speed.

761
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 3: And I'm like, don't worry, trust me. In three years time,

762
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: you're going to be driving at over three hundred. And

763
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: it's hard for him to buy into it. He wants

764
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: to get good, he wants to get long now. And

765
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: the big challenge I try to paint, the big picture

766
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: I try to paint for my juniors is we've got time.

767
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: Let's look at the future. This is where we would

768
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: like to be in three years, in six years, in

769
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 3: ten years. And oftentimes it's a case of do you

770
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 3: want to be the best thirteen year old golfer in

771
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 3: the world or the best twenty three year old golfer

772
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: in the world, because have you ever seen a picture

773
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: of those really big checks, those big checks, You don't

774
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 3: get it.

775
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 1: Thirteen's you make a lot more money at twenty three.

776
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 3: Exactly. You'd much rather be the best twenty three year

777
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: old golfer. So let's be patient, Let's stay the course,

778
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: let's keep working. We're going to work on a lot

779
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: of good things over the years. We're going to have

780
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 3: some good days and some bad days, But it's just

781
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: really keeping their mindset patient and not getting too up

782
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 3: or down based on how the last round went. For

783
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: lady golfers, I teach a lot of ladies, thankfully, and

784
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 3: oftentimes the ladies that I encounter are fairly new to

785
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: the game. They haven't played a lot of golf, and

786
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: they would like to feel comfortable. They don't want to

787
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 3: be overwhelmed with five wedges in their bag and the three, five, seven,

788
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 3: nine woods that oftentimes their husbands have put in their

789
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: golf bag, and they want to know, okay off the tea.

790
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 3: This is how high I t it, and I got

791
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: a swing hard. Okay for my second shot. This is

792
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 3: going to be my club of choice, and I go, okay,

793
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 3: these are the two I want you to work between.

794
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 3: One is a seven wood and one is a five hybrid.

795
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 3: You can fall in love with either one, but I

796
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 3: want you to fall in love with one of them,

797
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: and that's oftentimes going to be your second shot club.

798
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 3: And then from there we're going to go, okay, eight

799
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: RN nine iron wedge and a sand wedge. You're gonna

800
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,439
Speaker 3: pick one of those and we're going to play those next.

801
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: To get the ball on the green, Let's get good

802
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: at that shot. Let's pitch the ball to the middle

803
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: of the green and then two putts and go from

804
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: there and really start to have some fun. I try

805
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 3: to downplay the importance of score score card competing. Let's

806
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: go out, have a good time, try to hit some

807
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 3: shots that get up in the air, and just enjoy

808
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 3: it first, because once a junior can learn to love

809
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 3: the game, once any beginner can learn to love the game,

810
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 3: they'll come back to learn it later. Let's get early

811
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 3: to the game, golfers. Let's get them to love it

812
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 3: first and get them to have a great time and

813
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 3: hit some fun shots. My goal in every beginner lesson

814
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: is I want at the end of the lesson, we've

815
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,959
Speaker 3: got this ball teed up really high, they've got driver

816
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 3: in hand, and they're hard and I want them to

817
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 3: hit a shot that makes them go Wow. That was amazing.

818
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 3: I can't wait to do that again.

819
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: Andrew, can you tell us a little bit about coach

820
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: Camp how it got off the ground?

821
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: Thanks for asking. Coach Camp is something my wife and

822
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 3: I have put together. We've been doing it for coming

823
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 3: up on, coming up on eight years now. I actually

824
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: got invited to be a presenter at a fellow golf

825
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 3: coaches event where he was doing a day and he

826
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 3: brought some other coaches in and I said to him,

827
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 3: I said, this is fantastic. I'd love to, with your permission,

828
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 3: have the ability to be able to recreate this just

829
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: on a little bigger scale. And that's where I got

830
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 3: the idea. And it's really been so much fun over

831
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: the year, Shane, and we've had just about every coach

832
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 3: certainly in the top twenty has presented at coach Camp.

833
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: We've had some great stories, some great experiences, ranging from

834
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 3: Gigi flings off the stage to anyone who was willing

835
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 3: to catch one, to Joe Mayo pontificating and holding court

836
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: at night, and Sean Foley presenting on Bruce Lee, and

837
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 3: just some things that come to mind. But it's been

838
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 3: a very fun event but also tremendously educational. I know

839
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: I've learned a tremendous amount, and the coaches that I

840
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 3: invite are typically the ones that I would like to

841
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 3: learn from, and I feel I've like I've got a

842
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 3: lot to learn, But it's getting harder and harder to

843
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 3: find fresh new coaches. I would always I'd love to

844
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 3: find somebody who's a coach, But outside of the sport

845
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: of golf, I think there's a tremendous amount we can

846
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: learn there in so many different ways, be at the

847
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: mental side, or the physical side, or just the coaching

848
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: of young people. So many different avenues that we can

849
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: look at. But it's been a great journey so far, and.

850
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: I've loved going to coach Camp. A couple of times

851
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 2: i've been, and our team's been going there. I just

852
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: love everything you've done to help. In the golf coaching community,

853
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: all wants to help each other, right, everyone can have

854
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 2: their own identity, their own expertise, their own philosophies. But

855
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: I just love that you've brought everyone together with coach

856
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: Camp to share share those ideas. I know certainly we

857
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 2: come away from there often with more questions unanswered than answered,

858
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 2: and that is a beautiful thing. It kind of keeps

859
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: us going on this journey to try to investigate all

860
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: of the little mysteries of this game, whether it's design, coaching, fitting, performance,

861
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: golf science, you name it.

862
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 3: And Martie, certainly thank you to you and everybody at PING.

863
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: You guys have been a big supporter of coach Camp

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00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: and certainly been a big reason why it's continued to

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00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: happen each and every year. So thank you for your

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00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 3: support and pull and Eric and Chris and yourself and

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00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 3: everyone comes out and shared some amazing information. It's very

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00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 3: cool to see actually over the last few years how

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00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 3: Poll and Eric pulled, doctor Paul Wood, doctor Eric Hendrickson,

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00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: who are engineers here at PING, and how their information

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00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: has really improved them. They've gotten to the point now

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00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: where I know certain people who come to coach Camp

873
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 3: they're not really interested in listening to the coaches. They

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00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 3: want to listen to the PhDs and learn some new

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00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: nuggets what those guys are going to be sharing. So

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00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: it's great to see.

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00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: As long as somebody is learning, right, Andrew, listen, we

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00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: could talk to you for another hour and a half,

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00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: I think, and we were definitely gonna have you on

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00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: again because I think this is just scratching a surface

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00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: on all that you do for golf and all that

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00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: you do for ping. So we appreciate the time. Thanks

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00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: so much for the insight, and let's schedule another pod

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00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: at some point because we'd love to get you back on.

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00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Chance, I appreciate the opportunity. Cheers.

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Speaker 1: That's Andrew Rice. This is the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast.