WEBVTT - Ep 34: Julien Baker 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:10.719 Loud and Quiet presents Midnight Chats. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.959 There's a few reasons I wanted the guest we have 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.159 on this episode of Midnight Chats to come on. The 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.640 first and most obvious one was that we're fans of 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.360 Julian Baker and we're fans of her music. The second 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.920 one was that last year I was lucky enough to 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.680 travel around the Southern States of America, taking in places 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:46.960 like New Orleans, Austin, Nashville, Clarksdale, and Memphis. Beforehand, my 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.200 preconceptions of Memphis were dominated by the city's well known 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:56.520 cultural landmarks, so Graceland obviously BB King's Blues Club on 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.960 Beal Street, Sun's Studio, but also Memphi. This has played 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.800 such an important part in US history as well. From 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.560 a personal point of view, I was fascinated to get 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.160 to talk to someone from Memphis to find out what 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.160 the reality of growing up there away from that stuff 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:18.039 is actually like. But also staying on preconceptions. As someone 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.720 who counts famous introverts like Elliott Smith among her major 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.559 influences and often gets described as a singer songwriter writing 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:31.000 very personal material. Going into this conversation, I thought Julian 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.680 might be quite softly spoken, possibly even a bit shy, 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.240 but as you're about to hear, that's not the case 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.480 at all. She's eloquent, polite, honest, but there's also a 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:46.080 real fiery passion and determination about her personality, her character, 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.400 particularly on subjects that she really cares about. It left 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.240 me thinking that there will definitely be people listening to 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.720 this who knowingly or unknowingly have an idea in their mind, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.560 a perception of what they think people alike from that 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.960 part of the world, from the Southern States of America, 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:04.480 And I think the way that Julienne talks about it, 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:09.840 being a young gay Christian songwriter who is into hardcore 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.960 punk as much as she is a band like Deaf 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.239 Cab the QT serves as a reminder that we can't 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.520 generalize what a place is like from the headlines we 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.720 read or the cliches that get recycled. It's rarely the 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:27.320 complete picture of her place anyway. This was recorded just 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.800 over a week ago. Julian came into our office here 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.240 at Loud and Choiet in East London. It was the 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.040 first stop on what was going to be a tour 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.120 of Europe doing interviews about her new album, turn Out 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.560 the Lights Out. Later this month. Only a couple of 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.880 years ago, she recorded her debut Album's Sprained Ankle and 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.000 assumed that the audience for it would be basically her 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:51.040 Facebook friends. So she's come a long way from those days. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.760 Just finally, I should remind you if you like our podcast, 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.600 please do subscribe. That means you'll get every new episode 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:03.160 of Midnight Chats published every fortnight on a Thursday at midnight. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.360 But on with the conversation. This is Midnight Chat's episode 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:27.800 thirty four with Juliane Baker. You've obviously been to Europe 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.600 a couple of times now in the last few years. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.480 Does it still have like a charm and excitement leaving 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:37.080 the States to come somewhere like London to talk about 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:37.960 your music or play. 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:38.480 Oh? 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:43.960 Absolutely, I think that's never something that I'll grow used to. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.840 I mean so, especially because this is a press trip. 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.400 I'm not actually playing any shows, and so it's almost 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:57.120 more astounding that people care enough to talk to me 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:02.120 about my music that there's an entire trip to Europe 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.080 dedicated to just talking about the record that I've made, 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.360 not performing or giving any three thing extra, which would 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.400 be the crux of my occupation as it were. And 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.400 I hope it's never like lost on me. I don't 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:16.960 think it ever will be. I don't think I have 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:18.040 that kind of disposition. 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:19.360 Is this like the day one? 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.320 This is day one, not day one of press because 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.000 I've done a couple of bone interviews stuff around this record. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.880 That's one thing that's really different about I can already 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.080 tell the life quote unquote or whatever of this record 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.920 is that when uh six one three one picked up 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:42.919 and re released Sprained Ankle and then we started working 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.760 with a publicist, it was sort of after the fact 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:51.240 the record had already been released. There was no anticipatory element, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.279 and so everything that came was a surprise. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:55.320 As it always is. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.960 I'm always surprised that, you know, the music is still relevant, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.880 or you know, grateful and taken aback that people care 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:05.479 enough about my music to talk to me about it. 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.640 But this time there are interviews leading up to the 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:16.000 release of the record and kind of building the anticipation 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.119 for me of like, I hope that when this body 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:23.440 of work is released that it'll be well received. 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.000 Do you have any idea what you're going to feel 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.599 like after talking about yourself for the next five days? 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.520 Oh my gosh, it's I don't want to use the 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.960 term exhausting, because I feel like that might accidentally convey 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:44.360 boredom or which is not the case. Like I am 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:48.400 continuously aware of how blessed and fortunate I am that 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.440 this gets to be my job, but I do try 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:57.839 to give myself adequate perspective to my art, Like this 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.920 trip entails a lot of discussion of me, and so 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:07.200 the challenge is finding ways to turn the conversation not 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.320 completely away from the record, but to find ways to 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.159 situate the art that I make inside the larger context 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.520 of the art that I like, the art that I admire, 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.760 the things that I think are socially relevant and pertinent, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.640 so that it does not become a sort of self 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:29.440 aggrandizing exercise. Not in a like holier than that way, 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.000 but just in a way that I feel like I 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:36.360 would not be serving the record itself even well if 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.800 I just talked about me and tried to perform these 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:48.160 activities or interviews with only like accreditation or recognition in mind. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.560 I think that's not why I want to do interviews. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.280 And I want to start by talking a bit about Memphis, 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.200 because I visited there for the first time last year 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.080 during a trip which took my wife and I from 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.240 New York to Nashville, Nashville to Memphis, Memphis to Clarksdale, 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.760 Clarksdale to New Orleans, and ended up in Austin. What 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:14.160 struck me was the huge difference between those places. Memphis specifically, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.960 I found really fascinating, not just because of the landmarks 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.040 that people know of, obviously Graceland and the Peabody Hotel. Ducks. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.680 Did you see the ducks? Duck? 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.480 So that's like on my well, I'll let you finish, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.240 just to interject that it's so funny to me that 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.080 piece of Memphis lore, the ducks that you know, performed 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.400 a little walk around. But I was in Germany playing 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.120 each other the first time I ever came to Europe, 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.640 and for me, the ducks are cool, but they're like 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:47.440 a kitchy event. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:47.760 You know. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:52.520 The top sites to see that's probably fifth on the list. 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.440 And someone in Germany was like, oh, you're from Memphis. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.600 Is that that place with the ducks? 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:02.000 And I was like, yes, how did you know this? 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.560 I know, but it's crazy. Did you see the ducks walk? 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.680 We did? So for people that if this is making 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.520 no sense of people, there's a hotel called the Peabody, 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.440 famous place in Memphis, been there for a long time, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:18.600 and they have this very quirky tradition of they have 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.000 some ducks in the hotel that live on the roof, 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.320 and maybe once twice a day I can't quite remember, 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.360 the ducks come down in the elevator in the lift 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.320 to the ground floor. Hundreds of tourists gather around. The 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.920 ducks walk from the lift to the fountain, go in 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.320 the fountain for a bit, then they turn around and 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.320 they reverse the journey and they go back upstairs there trying. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.719 To do this, and they're walked out by was the 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:48.640 guy there with the duck master. The duck master different 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:50.080 than duck commander. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.760 Don't I actually don't know the different levels of. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.560 Duck No duck. I'm pretty sure duck commander is like 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.679 a bass pro shop like hunting thing. Oh okay, But then 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:00.680 there's duck Master. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.440 So it's done in this big ceremonial way. So the 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.800 duck master does a bit of a speech and talks 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.880 about the history of the Peabody. Then the ducks, as 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.320 if they're walking, they actually walk on a red carpet, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.040 so celebrity ducks, and they make their way over to 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.320 the fountain. Everybody applauds. It's such a surreal thing. I 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.320 must admit I came away thinking, Okay, like did I 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.959 enjoy that? I mean, I enjoyed the spectacle of it. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:30.560 I was about to say the spectacle. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.680 There's so many things in Memphis I think that are 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:41.640 bizarre enough that you just want to witness the absurdity 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.240 of the fact that it exists. But you were saying, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.000 so you saw many things in Memphis and what struck you? 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:52.880 Yeah, so there was so Obviously when people think of Memphis, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.560 they think Graceland, they think of maybe the Peabody Hotel. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:58.560 Maybe you've only just learned about that, but maybe you 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.560 want to go and check that out. Then obviously Bale 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.320 Street in BB King's Blues Club, and maybe if you're 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.520 more into music, then like Sun Studio, places like that. 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:11.000 But it's a city that's really characterized by its huge 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.079 kind of historic landmarks, those places. What was the actual 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.000 reality like of growing up in that city. 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.960 I think there's a duality to the city, but that 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:24.559 those elements of the past, while they seem like kind 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:32.839 of static fixtures of history, play into the locals conception 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.600 of the city, right so I had never been to 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.319 Graceland ever, you know, like growing up, I never went 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.720 a single time. There's a thing called Graceland two, which 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.640 is just small sidebar. The man who ran it was 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.480 he actually passed a little while ago, but Graceland two 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.920 spelled too as in this is also Graceland. Was this 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.920 bizarre little house owned by this man who just filled 0:10:59.920 --> 0:11:03.559 it with Elvis memorabilia. And it was like this informal 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.000 kind of cult activity that we would all go to 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.000 Graceland two and if you just knock on the door, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.240 and I think the thing was you showed up with 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.320 a six pack of Coca cola, or if you don't 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.120 the man at any hour of the night. I had 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.360 friends that would go, like two in the morning, We'll 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.080 invite you in and he will just walk you around 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.360 his home. It's just like a person's house, and he'll 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.160 just show you all his crazy stuff there. But so 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:34.319 there's a lot of like interesting dichotomy of Memphis where 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:39.079 there's the normal thing and then the abnormal thing, as 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.880 much as there are like quirky pieces of history there, 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.920 like the Crystal Grotto, which is just like this weird grotto, 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.440 or grace Land two, there's so much just unique about Memphis. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.200 Do you know about Prince Manga. Oh my gosh, he's 0:11:55.200 --> 0:12:00.119 this citizen who runs for mayor, like with some regular 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.600 that just will never win. He but he runs. I 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.280 like to think that it's sort of like a he 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.280 knows that he's crazy, Like he's in on the joke 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:16.600 kind of trope where he tells people in press releases 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.160 that he's here from another planet. He is an alien 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.400 scent here, and he'll say things like if I get 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.480 elected mayor, I will provide every citizen with an oozy 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:31.199 automatic weapon. And but also there's things like there was 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.360 a painting ordinance past about like your house can't be 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.480 certain colors, and you had a party where everyone brought 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.480 paint and threw it at his house and made just 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.920 this bizarre. But stuff like that happens in Memphis that 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:50.079 seems like this bizarre like Garcia Marquez like magical, unreal 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:55.120 story and it is one. And I think that this 0:12:55.200 --> 0:13:00.480 is gonna sound cheesy or ironic. But there's something maybe 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:05.200 I won't use the word magical, like mystic about Memphis 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.079 that is lacking in some other cities that have a 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.960 little bit more commerce, Like I think that there are 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.600 other cities in Tennessee or just around the South that 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.720 have amazing art scenes and a lot of music and commerce, 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:27.760 and but in Memphis it's just small enough to be 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:33.280 familial and just big enough to have resources to do 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:39.120 interesting things. But the primary differentiating factor in the art 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.439 scene in Memphis to me is that, say, in a 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.480 place like Nashville or Atlanta, there seems to be a 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.760 lot more prevalent access to music and venues, and there's 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.600 plenty of places to play, and so there can be 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.880 the music kid lunch tables, like if you've ever seen 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.240 SLC punk, you know, like this, oh you know that 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:01.720 scene where it's like the new wave kids hate the 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.960 hardcore kids, and the hardcore kids hate the punk kids 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.000 and the pub kids. But so it's like, you know, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.880 there's like the scream of house scene, and then maybe 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.679 the DM scene, and then the pop scene and the 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.880 country scene. And because of the surplus of resources, those 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.840 people may exist within their esoteric sphere, but in Memphis 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:26.200 there's it's getting revitalized, but only as a result of 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.320 people saying we desperately need places to play, we need 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.960 a mid cap venue. We don't have a lot of outlets, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:39.360 and so all of these different genres and types of 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:43.880 artists are forced to buy necessity work in like a 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.640 cohesive unit. I feel that the scene there is not 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.360 very competitive. It has to be collaborative because if it's 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.440 not collaborative, no one will benefit from it. And so 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.720 that's the way I always grew up conceptualizing music. You know, 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.640 we would play how shows or shows that art spaces 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:06.280 where we play an indie rock set, and then we'd 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.320 be opening for like a black metal band, and then 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.000 there would also be a band on that show that 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.200 sounded like just alt country. And that kind of diversity 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.360 but mutual support I think showed me how necessary it 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.920 is to gain perspective and insight from other people in 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.600 the worlds they live in. But there's also just a 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.120 lot of love, like people that see the disparity between 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.760 what we wish we could have resource wise in Memphis 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.200 and what we actually have. But I just think that 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.320 everybody putting so much of themselves into this basket of 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:52.760 something we can all have together is you know, intrinsically Memphis. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.240 Before I ask it a bit more about that, going 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.840 back to the guy that runs for mayor, remind me 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.320 of his name, Mungo. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.160 No, oh, Mango, Prince Mango. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:07.080 Prince Mongo. Have you heard of the Monster Raving Looney Party? Okay, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:11.000 So in the UK we have our major political parties, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.880 but alongside that there are other kind of small political parties, 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.600 one of which is called the monster Raving Looney Party. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.360 And as you were talking about him just there, that 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.720 reminded me of that. And these are people that generally 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.160 run in elections, run for office, but in a kind 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.800 of will often have fairly kind of daft policies and 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.800 also maybe wear fancy dress and things like that. So 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.960 for example, you know, you might see some election footage 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:44.080 of somebody being you'd be watching an politician wearing a 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.920 suit celebrating their victory, and behind them there'll be a 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.640 woman dressed as a tomato or it. When Theresa May 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.080 got back in during the general election, the most recent one, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.120 there was a guy sort of dressed his second Lord 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.680 buckethead and he had a huge bucket on his head. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.760 He actually went and appeared on some US like talk 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.720 shows after the event because the internet went absolutely bonkers 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.240 over this this guy that turned up with a bucket 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.640 on his head and it just hearing you talk about 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.119 this guy reminds me of that, the kind of how 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.680 even the most like serious of processes can be kind 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.879 of the sprinkle a little bit of just surreal humor 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:25.520 or madness. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.359 Yeah, and I'd love to think that it is a 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.400 humor and sort of a commentary on the system itself, 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.119 that it's a farce intended to show the absurdity of 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:41.200 the rest of the process, almost like modest proposal style, 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.480 you know, like they don't actually mean this, But I 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.320 think in some cases, I don't know, man, Prince Bongo 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:51.200 might actually mean it. You might actually believe that everybody 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:55.000 would be better off on planet Zorp or whatever. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:18:00.239 You know. With Memphis, you discussed it there, like the 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.159 how the city is evolving, What's what's a what does 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:04.560 a person from Memphis call themselves? 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.160 Are there Memphisan? 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:12.800 Memphian sounds cool, right? What do Memphians think of the 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:18.120 development and the regeneration or just new generation of other 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.879 kind of comparable comparable cities, So somewhere like Nashville. So 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.520 when I traveled from Nashville to Memphis, there seemed like 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.359 there was a big difference because when you stood on 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.160 the kind of hill looking down into downtown Nashville. It's 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.240 just cranes. All you can see. Is this development work happening? 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.960 They can't seemingly be building flats or whatever it is 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.640 apartments quick enough. I liked Nashville, but it felt very 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.480 modern compared to somewhere like Memphis. Where Memphis felt like 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.800 it had you got a real sense of history of 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.240 the place, possibly a little bit more. I don't know 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.240 if the word is real, but Memphis just felt like 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.320 I had more character. How do Memphians feel about the 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.959 development they see in the other big cities around them? 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.320 And does it have I mean, you mentioned it there 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.080 that the development of Memphis seeds to be coming from 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.440 within rather than external. Is that fair to say? 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.480 Yeah, I think that would be fair to say. That's 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.760 a good way to put it. That Also, I don't 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.840 want to relish and enjoy that you said Memphis seems 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.480 more real than Nashville. So I've lived in both places. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.680 I moved from Memphis to around Nashville to go to school, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:23.520 and then I moved back home when I started touring, 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:27.119 and now I've moved back up to live closer to 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:35.320 my partner, and I enjoy both cities. Honestly, Tennessee natives, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.320 I think will come to each other to rescue. But 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:44.040 there's an interesting sibling rivalry between Nashville and Memphis, and 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:50.000 I find that, first of all, Nashville, it's something like 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.080 tripled in size in the last five years. People that 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.480 have lived there for a long time always comment upon 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:01.640 how the city is just unrecognized from five even ten 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.280 years ago. And I haven't lived long enough there to 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:07.760 be able to compare, but I think you're right. Nashville 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.480 is so much more modern, and it seems because it's 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:16.520 commerce and industry based that it's very geared towards like 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:21.119 young urban people. And gentrification is a problem everywhere, but 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:25.600 particularly I think in Nashville, because you talked about the construction, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.359 and I gave like a grimace because I experience the 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.040 repercussions of the construction every day when it takes like 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.240 an hour to get two hundred feet on I sixty five. 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.960 But all these flats are being built, and I know 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.200 in my heart, like all these flats are going to 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:46.360 be built for the innumerous transplants, and then rent will 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:51.159 not go down, like supply will increase, but demand is 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.840 just going to keep increasing, and so the housing will 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.879 not become more affordable, which makes me a little sad. 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.399 And I think, you know, it's largely because a lot 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.720 of industries, particularly in music, like I heard that the 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.800 Big Three are like moving to be more present there 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.919 in Nashville, and there's just a lot of like music 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.120 and like big music industry, like major label stuff going 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:24.520 on there that I think draws more people to relocate there, 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:29.160 since it's not quite a New York or La yet. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.280 And Memphis, I think there's a little bit of bitterness 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.240 because we feel neglected. We feel like we're you know, 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:42.359 a decent size, like major city, and yet everything seems 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.080 to come to Nashville. When people move, visit open businesses, 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.359 it goes to Nashville, and Memphis gets forgotten. And so, 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.200 you know, like I was saying earlier, with having less 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:57.439 resources at our disposal as a city, I think everyone 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.000 there in Memphis that doesn't leave it comes to the 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.120 realization that if something is going to happen, it has 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.840 to happen utilizing just what we have. And so people 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.080 in Memphis I think have this attitude that's very defensive 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:15.920 and proud of like we have the Grizzlies there and 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:20.200 their motto is grit and grind, because I think that 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:27.760 the football team, oh, no, Predators. The Predators are a 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.240 hockey team in Nashville and that's gotten really popular. But 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.520 the Grizzlies are a basketball team and their moto is 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.000 grit and grind. I think a lot of people in 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:41.400 Memphis identify with that idea of like there's no one 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.400 that is going to or maybe there's not no one, 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:50.960 but there's less people coming into Memphis externally pouring investment 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:55.280 in and so I think that, oh gosh, she said, 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:57.679 you know, like necessity is the mother of invention, Like 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:02.840 having less to work with makes people more motivated to 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.360 create something wholly and new or with whatever they have, 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.720 and sometimes that can be a blessing. And like the 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.320 way you craft things or the way that things come 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:19.600 about as a musical community or growing organically is a 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.560 little bit more stable and more unique because it's not 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:27.240 being constructed from an outsider's point of view of what's 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:31.760 going to be theoretically lucrative and successful. It's just how 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.399 things are happening naturally. That's most advantageous for the city. 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:37.520 I mean, we already talked a little bit about those 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:42.160 places that people know Memphis for but presumably as a 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.800 teenager writing your first songs or whatever, you weren't hanging 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:46.639 out at Sun Studio. You were kind of in your 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:49.520 own neighborhood. So what were the places that were there 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.280 for you tell us a bit about the places that 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:51.960 you were hanging out. 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.679 Well, one of the places that I feel like was 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:59.920 really significant in my musical history was the skate part 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.760 a skate park of Memphis is not there anymore. It 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.400 got shut down. There's this whole thing about like some 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.639 kid went in there and didn't sign a waiver or something, 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:12.359 and then he got his thumb ripped off on the 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.400 ramp and sued the skate park for a significant amount 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.520 of money and then got forty k tattooed on the 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:23.080 missing thumb, which we all thought was very Memphis and 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:26.760 very tasteless. But I don't know how true that is. 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.399 That's just like the Midmath, which I think is like 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:35.639 just fun. But when I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen, I 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:40.080 used to go see hardcore bands and people play at 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.040 the skate park. And the skate park used to be 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.439 booked by this organization in Memphis called Smith's Seven, And 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.000 there's a whole bunch of local bands there. It was 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:56.000 a real culty thing, but that had this unusual level 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.280 of success because there would be local bands like you know, 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:03.080