Speaker 1: Ka boom. If you've thought more hours a day, minutes
Speaker 1: a week was enough, I think again. He's the last
Speaker 1: remnants of the old republic, a sole fashion of fairness.
Speaker 1: He treats crackheads in the ghetto cutter the same as
Speaker 1: the rich pill poppers in the penthouse, to clearing house
Speaker 1: of hot takes, break free for something special. The Fifth
Speaker 1: Hour with Ben Maller starts right now that it does
Speaker 1: the weekend kicks off in a podcast. I'm actually excited
Speaker 1: about this one. Now. Usually I pretend I feign excitement,
Speaker 1: but I'm excited about this one. Well come in the
Speaker 1: beginning of another addition of the Fifth Hour, because four
Speaker 1: hours a night on the overnight or not enough? Not enough.
Speaker 1: We do this eight days a week. This is the
Speaker 1: Friday Podcast. We attempt every week to scour the sporting
Speaker 1: world to talk to people that we're interested in, or
Speaker 1: people we like, our old radio friends, people all on
Speaker 1: those lines. Occasionally we even have listeners. On last week,
Speaker 1: j Scooped, the famous p one from Seattle, was on
Speaker 1: our show talking about the song that he and Just
Speaker 1: Josh put together for our overnight show. So we're excited
Speaker 1: about that. We are joined yet again by David Gascon
Speaker 1: from West of the four oh five, who's getting the
Speaker 1: full He's getting the full fifth hour experience this weekend,
Speaker 1: because we'll talk more about Gascon's rather marginal performance marginal
Speaker 1: as a producer on the show this week. But you're
Speaker 1: you're near not living my life, Gascon, having to do
Speaker 1: the overnight show and then come right back and have
Speaker 1: a little podcast fun in the salt mine here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I race home, try to sleep for a few hours,
Speaker 1: wake up trying to cook something, and then speed my
Speaker 1: ass into heavy traffic back to the studio. But welcome
Speaker 1: to my world. I'm I'm excited for this one too,
Speaker 1: especially because we do so much in the gaming world.
Speaker 1: Uh not necessary, you know, with one particular sport, but
Speaker 1: I'm always fascinated with the way that things have gone.
Speaker 1: We were talking about bullshit calls, bad calls. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know the infamous call in the NFC Championship game
Speaker 1: with the Rams a few years ago, Um a blow. Well,
Speaker 1: I was a great call in the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 1: Let me stop you right there. But you're referring if
Speaker 1: you haven't if you've cheated, or if you haven't cheated
Speaker 1: and looked at the headline on the on the podcast
Speaker 1: we are chatting, we're gonna have here in a couple
Speaker 1: of minutes, Tim Donnighy is gonna join us. He is
Speaker 1: one of the more infamous figures in American sport UH
Speaker 1: and the NBA fish. If you don't know his story,
Speaker 1: I'll give you the truncated version here. So he was
Speaker 1: a referee from the mid nineties to two thousand seven.
Speaker 1: The reason he stopped being a referee is because the
Speaker 1: FBI opened an investigation that they were investigating sports wagering.
Speaker 1: The mob was entire it was involved in this. Uh.
Speaker 1: Tim Donnie was betting on NBA games and he was
Speaker 1: officiating those NBA games, and it was a huge scandal,
Speaker 1: although the NBA for the most part, was able to
Speaker 1: sweep it under the rug. It's a fascinating crisis management
Speaker 1: story with David Sarn's NBA, the late commissioner, and they
Speaker 1: will talk to him about this, but they said he
Speaker 1: was the lone wolf. He was the only one doing it,
Speaker 1: when there's anecdotal evidence that there were plenty of referees
Speaker 1: that we're doing. Maybe not the exact same thing Tim
Speaker 1: Donnie did, but similar activity there in those days and
Speaker 1: it all just kind of went away in the NBA
Speaker 1: media said, Okay, you know, they said, this happened, that's
Speaker 1: all that happened. That's it, no more investigation and uh,
Speaker 1: and we just moved on. It was wild. Well, it's
Speaker 1: the extentire right because you always say the the NFL
Speaker 1: network is tied to the NFL. It's state sponsored media media.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me. I was thinking about this with
Speaker 1: having Tim on is if you thought that maybe in
Speaker 1: a situation with Tim, we're we're teams where obviously knew
Speaker 1: something was going on but they didn't do anything about it.
Speaker 1: Do you think the NBA would have been susceptible to
Speaker 1: a class action lawsuit from gamblers because of wages loss? Well,
Speaker 1: as I remember, I think there were some lawsuits that
Speaker 1: were filed by season ticket holders that claimed that if
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, right, yeah, like because they bought tickets,
Speaker 1: it was a bad faith. Agree. You know, the NBA
Speaker 1: had said that the integrity is you know, the game,
Speaker 1: and there was no integrity and all that. But as
Speaker 1: far as the cover up, the greatest quote all time
Speaker 1: from someone in sports media that I I wrote it
Speaker 1: down and I still remember to this day because it
Speaker 1: was so good. When Peyton Manning was involved in a
Speaker 1: steroid scandal, there was a documentary that outered him as
Speaker 1: a steroid cheat, and the NFL media were fighting with
Speaker 1: each other to bury the story. But Keishan Johnson, who
Speaker 1: was at ESB, I guess he's back at ESPN now,
Speaker 1: but he had one of the great quotes of all
Speaker 1: time to to cover up and protect the almighty. Keish
Speaker 1: On said of regarding Peyton Manning, he said, he didn't
Speaker 1: do it. If he said he didn't do it, it
Speaker 1: didn't happen, then it didn't happen. He didn't do it.
Speaker 1: That's it. And Jim Nance on CBS said, it's a
Speaker 1: non story on all levels, or all on all levels,
Speaker 1: it's a non story something like that, And of course,
Speaker 1: you know many people believe it was not a non story.
Speaker 1: It was absolutely true. The Al Jazer reporting about Peyton
Speaker 1: Manning and the clinic in Indianapolis. That was a great
Speaker 1: doc I remember that specifically because I went on a
Speaker 1: trip to Europe on vacation and you had texted me
Speaker 1: the link to that story, and I watched the entire
Speaker 1: documentary on a train ride. I was I was really
Speaker 1: fuck It was riveting. And you know, I still I
Speaker 1: am still in contact with a couple of people who
Speaker 1: made that documentary for Al Jazeera, and there's lawsuits we've
Speaker 1: we've wanted to get them on the podcast. I I
Speaker 1: love that documentary so much and it just got completely
Speaker 1: buried by the sporting world. Although that documentary, which everyone
Speaker 1: said was you know, bogus and was no credibility. The
Speaker 1: catcher for the Chicago Cubs to Tea Garden I think
Speaker 1: was his name, something like that, Taylor Tea Garden, I
Speaker 1: think that was the name. But anyway, he uh, he
Speaker 1: ended up getting suspended by Major League Baseball for performance
Speaker 1: adinancing drugs mostly based on that that documentary, So there
Speaker 1: was credibility. And once the there's a lawsuit involving Ryan
Speaker 1: Howard and Ryan Zimmermane and once that is officially settled,
Speaker 1: We're gonna get one of these people, one of the
Speaker 1: people I've been communicating with from Al Jazeero on the podcast.
Speaker 1: But this about Tim Dottie, David Gascon, Tim Donnie, the
Speaker 1: NBA referee, someone I'm excited. Actually a listener recommended this,
Speaker 1: a p one said, hey should get Tim Donnie and
Speaker 1: I said, well, that's a great idea. And I said,
Speaker 1: why didn't I think of that. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: a guy who I've watched these documentaries, I've read books,
Speaker 1: I've read plenty of stories online about his situation. It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: They've made a movie about his story. But let's welcome
Speaker 1: in now. Former NB I guess you had to say
Speaker 1: disgraced NBA referee to tell the story properly. All right, So, Tim,
Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to talking to you. I am fascinating.
Speaker 1: I've watched the documentaries about your story. I've read you
Speaker 1: wrote a book, I've read a bunch of stories online
Speaker 1: and all that. What is the question, though, Tim, as
Speaker 1: we welcome to the podcast here, what is the question
Speaker 1: that you get asked most about your story? Pretty much?
Speaker 1: They want to know if I fixed games? And uh,
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest misconception out there, that I
Speaker 1: went out there and put star players to the bench,
Speaker 1: that a lot of these bets would win. And and
Speaker 1: I always revert back to the fact that Phil Scallett,
Speaker 1: who was the supervisory special agent on my case, wrote
Speaker 1: the board for my book and said that I told
Speaker 1: the truth at every turn, and and in the book,
Speaker 1: I said that I didn't fix schemes. The NBA said
Speaker 1: I didn't fix schemes, and in fact, the FBI came
Speaker 1: out inside I didn't fix schemes. So I thinks a
Speaker 1: lot of things that come out from time to time
Speaker 1: about me fixing games, and it just didn't happen. The
Speaker 1: thing about your story, there's a lot of it that
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by. I covered the NBA when you were
Speaker 1: an official, and I remember, you know, seeing you randomly
Speaker 1: at games over the years there, and I know you
Speaker 1: don't officials as you know, being a referee. You know,
Speaker 1: there's some guys that stayed out, other guys that don't
Speaker 1: stayed out. But the NBA, the efforts they went to
Speaker 1: sweep this under the rug. But you were the only guy, uh,
Speaker 1: and they just wanted to make this all disappear. Uh.
Speaker 1: Were you the only guy involved in this kind of stuff?
Speaker 1: Definitely not, because there was a lot of other referees
Speaker 1: that the FBI actually wanted to indict because they were
Speaker 1: going into these games with a preconceived agenda of what
Speaker 1: they were going to do, and they were discussing that
Speaker 1: with uh, you know me, And that's why I was
Speaker 1: able to pick these games correctly at seventy percent at
Speaker 1: a time. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Speaker 1: Ben Maller Show weekdays at two a m. Eastern eleven
Speaker 1: pm Pacific. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Speaker 1: Ben Meller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm
Speaker 1: Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.
Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating and we hear this catch phrase all
Speaker 1: the time, you know, integrity of the game, and every
Speaker 1: sports league says it. They all use that phrase when
Speaker 1: something happens. Do you think there's actually integrity in the
Speaker 1: game that this phrase that gets thrown around so often.
Speaker 1: I think that they like the fans. I think that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of integrity into the game. I think now, uh,
Speaker 1: after my situation, I think that they're doing more to
Speaker 1: make sure there's integrity into the game and trying to
Speaker 1: keep these personal relationships that exist between officials and players
Speaker 1: and coaches out of it. I think this last week
Speaker 1: we just sold in the NHL. There was obviously an
Speaker 1: official that they fired on the spot because he was
Speaker 1: saying that he was going to do things to one
Speaker 1: of the NHL teams and um, you know, whether that
Speaker 1: call was correct or incorrect. He talked about it and
Speaker 1: it was something that he set out to do. So
Speaker 1: I think there's, especially with a lot of the veteran
Speaker 1: officials and the professional sports, Uh, there's relationships that exist,
Speaker 1: both positive and negative, and it's they spell out onto
Speaker 1: the floor. So you're the perfect guy to ask you
Speaker 1: to the makeup call, which as a basketball fan you
Speaker 1: watch these games are like, well, of course there's makeup calls,
Speaker 1: but people around the NBA often will say, well, that
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, that doesn't exist. Is there a makeup call?
Speaker 1: To explain the makeup call when you're calling a game
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Absolutely, there's a makeup call. When you
Speaker 1: make a call again somebody that uh you know, you
Speaker 1: may think, uh, you know, wasn't that good of a call? Uh,
Speaker 1: And somebody comes over to you and you discuss it
Speaker 1: with them, and they say, you know, yellow me one.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously you feel bad that you made a
Speaker 1: poor call against them, and you want to make sure
Speaker 1: when you get down the other end, Uh, do you
Speaker 1: give them the benefit of the doubt or you'll give
Speaker 1: them a cheap foul back that gets them to the line.
Speaker 1: So yes, there's definitely makeup calls. What went down when
Speaker 1: you found out this whole You know, you were gambling
Speaker 1: on NBA games and when you when the FBI started
Speaker 1: snooping around? Who did somebody tip you off? How did
Speaker 1: you find out? I know you've talked about this occasionally,
Speaker 1: but for those that don't know your story, maybe forgot,
Speaker 1: like how did this all go down? Because you were
Speaker 1: doing this for a couple of years at least and
Speaker 1: then everything hit the fan. Yeah, it was actually at
Speaker 1: the end of the year in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: I was just getting ready to play around the golf
Speaker 1: and Tommy Martino called me, who was one of the
Speaker 1: uh CO conspirators on the case, and told me that
Speaker 1: the FBI had been to his house that day and
Speaker 1: had been to his house, Uh, you know three or
Speaker 1: four times prior to that, and uh, you know that
Speaker 1: they were snooping around asking questions about what we have
Speaker 1: been doing. And I've been given him information that he
Speaker 1: had been passed along to uh Jane Fatista, who was
Speaker 1: associated with the game being No Crime family, and that uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it seemed like we're going to be in
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble and then what did you do
Speaker 1: after that? Did you contact an attorney immediately or did
Speaker 1: you like I did, I basically hit a major panic button. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, went home, contacted an attorney that I knew
Speaker 1: that lived two streets over from me, and we basically
Speaker 1: got together and discussed uh what I had known. And
Speaker 1: we went in his office the next day and he
Speaker 1: called the United States attorney who was working in the
Speaker 1: case and basically had me on speaker phone, and the
Speaker 1: guy said, uh, you know, you tell Tim Donkey. We
Speaker 1: know what he did, we know who he did it with. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's better off coming to us rather than us coming
Speaker 1: to get him, because if we have to come get him,
Speaker 1: he's going to go to jail for a long long time.
Speaker 1: So I think within like twenty four hours, I was
Speaker 1: on a plane to New York meeting with them. Wow.
Speaker 1: And then as far as the NBA part of it,
Speaker 1: we know that the late David start of the time
Speaker 1: really made a big point if you were alone, Wolf,
Speaker 1: if you were the only guy that did this. But
Speaker 1: what kind of interaction did you have after that with
Speaker 1: NBA officials? Really? Nothing. When John Laura was a former
Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, was one of my attorneys. He called up
Speaker 1: the NBA office and said that we'd like to come
Speaker 1: in and sit down with them and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: show them what we did and how we did it. Uh.
Speaker 1: They never took us up on the opportunity. They said
Speaker 1: they would give us a call back, and uh they
Speaker 1: never did. In the Uh wait, David Stern handled it
Speaker 1: and just continuing to bury me in the press and
Speaker 1: claiming that I was the one bad apple on the
Speaker 1: whole staff and nobody else had anything to do with it. Uh.
Speaker 1: There was just something that really rubbed not owing me,
Speaker 1: but my attorneys and the FBI agents the wrong way. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you obviously think you were the fall guy
Speaker 1: right that you were there, they were going to use
Speaker 1: you as the scapegoat, even though other guys were doing
Speaker 1: similar things. Correct, no doubt. I mean I definitely did
Speaker 1: something wrong. I don't want people to think that, you know,
Speaker 1: I I uh, you know, got in trouble for something
Speaker 1: I didn't do. I definitely was doing something I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been doing. Uh. And but there was other people
Speaker 1: that you know, really gave me this information that I
Speaker 1: years that was able to uh, you know, like I
Speaker 1: said earlier, make these bets correctly sevent of a time.
Speaker 1: You know another thing, Tim about you know, your story
Speaker 1: and being a referee all those years before. Obviously this
Speaker 1: this whole thing popped up the the superstar call. Can
Speaker 1: you can you walk me through this? Tim, Like, there's
Speaker 1: this there's a different set of rules for the headliners
Speaker 1: in the NBA. It's been this way. It's seemingly watching
Speaker 1: the NBA for for a million years. But you were
Speaker 1: right in the middle there the arena. So what guidelines
Speaker 1: do they give you guys as referees or did they
Speaker 1: give you back in those days when it comes to
Speaker 1: a different set of rules for the superstars, it's definitely
Speaker 1: the veteran referees that really sit you down and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, show you how to survive in the league
Speaker 1: as a young referee. And I never forget Jess Kersey,
Speaker 1: who was a veteran referee one time said, you know,
Speaker 1: when Michael Jordan goes to the hole and there's a crab,
Speaker 1: if he, you know, misses a shot, just blow the
Speaker 1: whistle and give the foul to somebody, because he didn't
Speaker 1: miss that shot on his own. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of different scenarios where if a
Speaker 1: star player fouled somebody and it was his third or
Speaker 1: fourth foul, and you could give that foul to somebody
Speaker 1: else instead of giving it to that star player, you
Speaker 1: were told to give it to that other mediocre player
Speaker 1: because people didn't play thousands of dollars to six courtside
Speaker 1: to see these star players on the bench. So there
Speaker 1: was a different set of rules for the star players
Speaker 1: that helped them, uh you know, become those stars that
Speaker 1: they are and stay at that level. Uh, that you
Speaker 1: were supposed to do as a referee to continue to
Speaker 1: help them. Tim based on your experience and where you've
Speaker 1: been and what you've seen, um ben, it brought a
Speaker 1: little bit this up earlier. But do you think or
Speaker 1: do you get a sense that there's any kind of
Speaker 1: overlap between what what happened in the NBA with you
Speaker 1: guys back then too, maybe the National Football League or
Speaker 1: college football or college basketball. Uh you know, I think
Speaker 1: that at every level, Uh you know, there's uh you know,
Speaker 1: relationships that exist both positive and negative that's spill out
Speaker 1: onto the playing with the with the officials and the
Speaker 1: and the coaches and the players. So you know, I
Speaker 1: think at every level people are getting the benefit of
Speaker 1: calls based on relationships are kind of getting it stuck
Speaker 1: to them based on prior situations where you know, a
Speaker 1: referee wants to stick it to somebody. So I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of situations that take place, uh you know,
Speaker 1: between the referees and playing participants. Uh that both positive
Speaker 1: and negative, that that affect the games based on where
Speaker 1: we're at now. I know it's easy to play catch
Speaker 1: twenty two, but um, you know where we're at social
Speaker 1: media wise, in the way that things are looked under
Speaker 1: a microscope. Do you think you'd have the balls to
Speaker 1: do something like you did then now in today's world?
Speaker 1: Definitely not. I'd like to think that if I ever
Speaker 1: had a second chance, or I could go back in time,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it. Uh you know, I had a
Speaker 1: great job, big and great money uh cost me everything
Speaker 1: that costs me my family, my job, my freedom. So
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to think that, uh you know,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do what I had done in the past.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know it's it's something that you know,
Speaker 1: we don't know. You can't turn back time. Well, speaking
Speaker 1: of that, relationship wise, family wise, what's that like for
Speaker 1: you and now in today's world, is there any kind
Speaker 1: of connection with you and family anything in that nature? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, definitely. I mean I have poor daughters and
Speaker 1: they all lived with me. Now, I think the best
Speaker 1: thing that happened through the whole scandal was that I
Speaker 1: was I got divorced, So that was one positive thing
Speaker 1: that happened from the whole thing. But other than that,
Speaker 1: there really wasn't anything positive from it. It's interesting, um,
Speaker 1: with where we're at in today's world, with all these
Speaker 1: sports leagues you're getting in bed with, you know, MGMs
Speaker 1: of the world and balis and companies like that, do
Speaker 1: you suspect or do you think that maybe not officials,
Speaker 1: but do you think athletes one day will fall prey
Speaker 1: to gambling debts and things of that nature. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think definitely they'll uh fall prey to gambling guts because
Speaker 1: there's so much gambling that goes on. You read about
Speaker 1: how much gambling goes on on the planes, uh you know,
Speaker 1: to and from games or uh you know how much
Speaker 1: gambling goes on, uh you know these card games behind
Speaker 1: the scenes and the amount of money that's bet. So
Speaker 1: definitely I think they'll fall prey to major, major gambling debts.
Speaker 1: But you don't think that they would ever uh, you know,
Speaker 1: be in a position where they would do something on
Speaker 1: the court because of the amount of money that they make, uh,
Speaker 1: you know in their job, that they would ever jeopardize that.
Speaker 1: What's the most you've ever waged on the event? Uh?
Speaker 1: There were times for I wagered five thousand dollars from
Speaker 1: the golf course, or there were times for I waged
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars on a sporting event. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it was a college football or an NBA game. Wow. Interesting, Hey, Uh,
Speaker 1: Tim to follow up on what Gascon said there, and
Speaker 1: the NBA and all these sports leagues have embraced gambling.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of money. It's like a gold rush
Speaker 1: now in gambling advertising. It's becoming legal across the country
Speaker 1: in different states, and eventually, I think pretty much everywhere
Speaker 1: outside the Bible Belt it's gonna be gonna be legal.
Speaker 1: How do you look at this? Can say, obviously you
Speaker 1: you admitted you did something wrong there, But the NBA
Speaker 1: had always been anti gambling, anti gambling. Now they've totally
Speaker 1: wrapped their arms around gambling. How do you look at
Speaker 1: that considering your situation? Well, I think it's gonna come
Speaker 1: down to the revenue and how much revenue that they see,
Speaker 1: UH that's projecting to go into their pockets. And when
Speaker 1: you talk about having twenty thousand people on these stadiums
Speaker 1: and the interactive betting that you're going to be able
Speaker 1: to do maybe sitting courtside and being able to place
Speaker 1: bets not even leaving your courtside seat. I think something
Speaker 1: that's going to generate an enormous amount of revenue for
Speaker 1: the leagu's moving forward, and I think they're going to
Speaker 1: take advantage of it. I also want to ask you
Speaker 1: about the just the meat and potatoes of officiating and
Speaker 1: watching the NFL over the Yearston We've always heard in
Speaker 1: watching the game, you can call holding on every play.
Speaker 1: As an NBA official, there's contact on almost every play
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Could you call a penalty and it
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be a wrong call, But could you call
Speaker 1: a penalty on every play based on the physical contact
Speaker 1: in an NBA game? You could because they want the
Speaker 1: physicality out of the game. They want a freak flowing,
Speaker 1: high scoring game, and they always seem to be adjusting
Speaker 1: the rules so that that continues to take place. That
Speaker 1: they have high scoring games, so any kind of really bump, hold,
Speaker 1: or or push, you could really blow the whistle at
Speaker 1: any any time. But as a referee, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you keep yourself in trouble if you're calling those fouls
Speaker 1: on star players to put them to the bench. They
Speaker 1: always say, if you're going to call those things, to
Speaker 1: clean up the game, to create a free flowing game.
Speaker 1: To make sure you called on players that don't matter,
Speaker 1: not for those that don't know. You were the official
Speaker 1: and two of the more famous games in recent somewhat
Speaker 1: recent NBA history, the Malice of the Palace. You were
Speaker 1: there for that, the Pacer Pistons brawl, which was an
Speaker 1: amazing visual act. And then also Game six of the
Speaker 1: two thousand two Western Finals, that was the Laker King's game.
Speaker 1: Uh as far as the Laker Kings game, that was
Speaker 1: when the Lakers got eighteen more foul shots. What happened
Speaker 1: that night? Tim did somebody send a message down from
Speaker 1: the league off like how did that end up happening?
Speaker 1: I think that's a misconcess conception. That was Bob Delaney,
Speaker 1: not me, who referee that game. But it was Lane there, Okay, No,
Speaker 1: I was de Laney Bernhardt and Thevetta, and that was
Speaker 1: I believe, Game six, and we all knew what Bavetta
Speaker 1: on the floor, that that was going to go to
Speaker 1: a Game seven, because he always said that he was
Speaker 1: the NBA's go to referee, that he was put on
Speaker 1: game six is make sure they went game seven's and
Speaker 1: with l A being down in the series, he was,
Speaker 1: you know, put on that game to make sure it
Speaker 1: went to a game seven, and he talked openly about
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I mean, I just remember that series. Ben.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you do it in terms of
Speaker 1: Game seven, but Sacramental has shot less than fifty from
Speaker 1: the free throw line in Game seven at Homes. So yeah,
Speaker 1: they really had a problem that everyone thought they were
Speaker 1: going to go home in Game seven and win it,
Speaker 1: and when they didn't, they really just all they did
Speaker 1: was continue to talk about the Game six and how
Speaker 1: screwed they got. If you were to look at this
Speaker 1: from from our perspective, because because Ben and I go
Speaker 1: at this a pretty good length with each sport. But
Speaker 1: like in the game of baseball, major League Baseball has
Speaker 1: in certain sites you can actually look at umpires to
Speaker 1: see what kind of games they're there totals, go over
Speaker 1: or go under, strike zones and things that nature. If
Speaker 1: you had to do what you did back then with
Speaker 1: any sport NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball, the NFL, college sports,
Speaker 1: which sport would you do that with? You know? I
Speaker 1: think the easiest sport to you know, get away with
Speaker 1: stuff like that, I think would be the NFL because
Speaker 1: I think when you uh discussed earlier, you could really
Speaker 1: call holding on every play or every other play if
Speaker 1: you want it, and you could let it go on
Speaker 1: the place that you wanted to. So I think when
Speaker 1: you talk about making calls to affect games that really
Speaker 1: nobody could really pick out, I think would be in
Speaker 1: the NFL. And Tim, I'll go back to that. You
Speaker 1: were at the mouth of the palace, right I Did
Speaker 1: I get that one? Right? Did I? Did? You did? Okay?
Speaker 1: So what I watched that on television? It was insane
Speaker 1: on television. You're in the middle of it. You're the
Speaker 1: you're the rules guy, like with the other thing, what
Speaker 1: like what what's going on there? And and what just
Speaker 1: kind of walked me through that night and when everything
Speaker 1: went to hell and the guys are fighting in the crowd,
Speaker 1: it's about a minute ago in the game, and it
Speaker 1: was really a non eventful game. The game was over
Speaker 1: and uh, after a free throw and Wallish and I
Speaker 1: think Ron Artest kind of got into it a little bit.
Speaker 1: And as we are reporting fouls and breaking things up,
Speaker 1: our tests went over and sat by the scores table
Speaker 1: and someone on the stands through a full cup of
Speaker 1: beer on him and he just got up and and
Speaker 1: be line right for the fan and got ahold of him.
Speaker 1: And the players were up in the in the stands
Speaker 1: fighting with the fans, and then Dans came onto the
Speaker 1: floor and they started fighting on the floor. So it
Speaker 1: was just a situation where every time we thought it
Speaker 1: was going to calm down and stopped, it got worse.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, it was at the point where
Speaker 1: we couldn't play the game the final minute of the
Speaker 1: game and we just called the game. Did you catch
Speaker 1: a haymaker at all? No? Thank god, because he know
Speaker 1: I had problems with Rashid Wallace in the past, and
Speaker 1: and I had my one eye on him at the
Speaker 1: whole the whole time, because I thought maybe he'd tried
Speaker 1: to swing at somebody else and think he was swinging
Speaker 1: somebody else and clocked me so I kept my distance
Speaker 1: from him the whole time. Did you did you Did
Speaker 1: that relationship stem from when he was in Portland? It did.
Speaker 1: It was a problem in Portland where you know, he
Speaker 1: didn't like uh technical foul. I gave him way to
Speaker 1: form me out in the parking line. Actually wanted to
Speaker 1: fight me, and and about ten people held them back,
Speaker 1: thank god, or I probably would killed me. How many
Speaker 1: other guys did you have a beef with? Are the
Speaker 1: other guys that stand out that? There were players that
Speaker 1: just didn't He didn't get along with them. They didn't
Speaker 1: like you, You You didn't like them. Uh, you know Chauncey Billups,
Speaker 1: it was a tough guy to get along with. Uh
Speaker 1: for me, just him and really Rashid Wallace was difficult
Speaker 1: to get along with. Are you Are you still friends
Speaker 1: with any of these people in the NBA? I mean
Speaker 1: you worked there a long time. There's some of those
Speaker 1: guys are still around? You still talk to those guys?
Speaker 1: I did? I actually just spoke the Bondsi Wells and
Speaker 1: Rushi wall It's not too long ago. I did their
Speaker 1: podcast and UH had a great conversation with them. Uh.
Speaker 1: I do from time to time email A couple of
Speaker 1: different owners that I think in contact with, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, other than that, there's not too many people
Speaker 1: that I know I've been in contact with recently. I
Speaker 1: got you and you actually have a website for those
Speaker 1: that don't know, and it's it's rep Picks. Explain this
Speaker 1: to me to walk me through what this is all
Speaker 1: about here, No. Rep picks dot com is a website
Speaker 1: where I have a bunch of sports handy trappers that
Speaker 1: work for me. We guide people through the sports gambling
Speaker 1: industry and hopefully at the end of the week you're
Speaker 1: collecting from your booky rather than paying your bookie in
Speaker 1: And also we kind of vent people out to make
Speaker 1: sure they're not getting themselves in too much trouble gambling
Speaker 1: and kind of guide them in the right direction. Are
Speaker 1: you still betting on games them? Are you still occasionally now?
Speaker 1: I'm not betting on games my up because it was
Speaker 1: a difficult line that I kept crossing and got me
Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble. So I kind of stay
Speaker 1: away from, uh, you know, betting on the games myself.
Speaker 1: I just kind of die people in the right direction.
Speaker 1: I got you, hey, Tim, thanks for swiming some time
Speaker 1: with us. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Be
Speaker 1: sure to catch live editions of The Ben Miller Show
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