Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: If you grew up in the seventies and eighties, you
Speaker 1: know how huge Darryl Hall is. If you grew up
Speaker 1: in the two thousands, you probably know too. But if
Speaker 1: you grew up in between, fall to your knees, Millennials.
Speaker 1: Darryl Hall as a god of R and B. With
Speaker 1: partner John Oates, Hall and Oates is the biggest selling
Speaker 1: vocal duo in history. They have seven platinum albums and
Speaker 1: another six gold ones. They made the Billboard Hot one
Speaker 1: hundred thirty four times with mega hits turned prom nite
Speaker 1: standards like men, rich girl, you make my dreams come
Speaker 1: true and I can't go for that. But by the
Speaker 1: early nineties, Hall and Oates have become a little passe,
Speaker 1: too smooth, too perfect. People said their time in the
Speaker 1: wilderness was blissfully short, thanks to a new generation of
Speaker 1: artists inspired by their sound, who sampled or covered Hall
Speaker 1: and Oates classics like Two Live Crew, De La Soul.
Speaker 1: I can't have none of that, Dolla, what to say?
Speaker 1: Mate and the Bird and the Bee. Yeah, anything to
Speaker 1: Paul and Oates, Ace and the Pop Cannon was now secure,
Speaker 1: and Hall has a sort of second career on television.
Speaker 1: In fact, he's recently had two successful TV shows. Legendary
Speaker 1: Roger Darryl Hall takes on his next project, restoring this
Speaker 1: eighteenth century farmhouse. Darryl's Restoration Overhaul on the d I
Speaker 1: Y Network is about his passion for saving historic hones.
Speaker 1: The other show is called Live from Darryl's House, where
Speaker 1: big name musicians join him for jam sessions. It started
Speaker 1: out as a web series and eventually got picked up
Speaker 1: on MTV. Do that So, yeah, the intro you want
Speaker 1: to start with just drumas like started with like that,
Speaker 1: Jake Jake to, and then we're in would You Play
Speaker 1: the Ball? The Darryl's House of the title these days
Speaker 1: is his restaurant and music. Then you in Pauling, New York,
Speaker 1: about seventy miles north and a world away from Manhattan.
Speaker 1: That's where he invited me to sit down and talk.
Speaker 1: So learning about your early years, one of the things
Speaker 1: that strikes me is that you know, before you go
Speaker 1: to study music, you're on the streets of Philadelphia singing groups. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. How did that happen? Well, it actually was
Speaker 1: simultaneous with me moving to Philadelphia. I grew up in Pottstown,
Speaker 1: which is a about forty miles northwest of Philadelphia, and uh,
Speaker 1: it had its own kind of small town street scene there.
Speaker 1: So I started a really young age doing doing you know,
Speaker 1: like busking, more like the doop, you know, the street
Speaker 1: corn music. There was no instruments involved, acapella and all that,
Speaker 1: and uh, it was always very racially integrated, you know,
Speaker 1: is that whole thing. And uh then when I went
Speaker 1: to Philly, I had already been involved in that off
Speaker 1: and there was this place called Mitton Hall where all
Speaker 1: everybody hung out. It was like the place where the
Speaker 1: whole temple of University went and people used to stand
Speaker 1: in the corners and sing. It was that's that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff was still going on. So I just walked
Speaker 1: up one day and started singing along with these strangers.
Speaker 1: And that's how I got into Philadelphia and started But
Speaker 1: at a time when in my mind when I think
Speaker 1: about Philadelphia, then I think about a lot of racial
Speaker 1: difficulties and move and you know, historically, not not for you,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, the city has always had a kind of
Speaker 1: a racial stratification. It seems like what was it about
Speaker 1: you that these people welcomed you with open arms? I
Speaker 1: just sing. I grew up in a very racially integrated environment,
Speaker 1: you know. And in Pottstown there's a big black community,
Speaker 1: and my my parents best friends lived right in the
Speaker 1: middle of the black neighborhood. So I as as a kid,
Speaker 1: I'm talking like a kid kid. For the summer, I
Speaker 1: would be over there and and all my waking hours,
Speaker 1: really I would be hanging out with white and black
Speaker 1: kids to other So the music that I grew up
Speaker 1: with was that, you know, R and B and soul music. Uh.
Speaker 1: It was really my baby food, you know, and it
Speaker 1: just went that way off things. My dad was he
Speaker 1: musically and he was in a vocal group. Sang he
Speaker 1: sang like gospel vocal group and uh he uh. I
Speaker 1: learned a lot about harmony from him. And uh my
Speaker 1: mother was a musician. She uh did other cons music,
Speaker 1: you know, she like musicals and she was in a band.
Speaker 1: So it was very musical environment. Let me just put
Speaker 1: these cards on the table, which is you are one
Speaker 1: of the ten greatest male vocalists in all of history
Speaker 1: of rock and roll. I mean you are, and what
Speaker 1: kills me is like how you've stayed because a lot
Speaker 1: of these guys have to drop it a key, and
Speaker 1: we interview a lot of my you know, you name it,
Speaker 1: and only you and Bano pretty much sound the same
Speaker 1: now almost. First of all, I do on stage, I
Speaker 1: do drop it a half a key now, I do, so,
Speaker 1: I admit it. But but you know what, that's that's
Speaker 1: cool too. It gives me more room to play around
Speaker 1: up top. Um. But you know, my voice has changed
Speaker 1: a lot over the years. You listen to those records
Speaker 1: that I made, you know, the Rich Girl and all
Speaker 1: those kind of songs, I'm like a little boy compared
Speaker 1: to the way I sing now I have. I sort
Speaker 1: of have the voice now I always wanted to have.
Speaker 1: It's that bigger, you know, and um yeah, so but
Speaker 1: I so, I like how my voice has evolved. And
Speaker 1: I haven't lost any of the stuff that I had.
Speaker 1: I just it's just sort of got bigger and wider.
Speaker 1: Where did you start singing? When did singing? My mother was,
Speaker 1: as I said, she was in a band, but she
Speaker 1: was also a vocal teacher and things like that, and
Speaker 1: she encouraged yeah, and she it was sort of always there,
Speaker 1: and she taught me how to sing? Did they both
Speaker 1: play instruments? Yeah, my mother played piano and uh. Um,
Speaker 1: I started taking piano lessons around five, and uh took
Speaker 1: lessons all the way through and then I, unfortunately was
Speaker 1: got into was I would say, I got into I
Speaker 1: was forced forced to play the trombone for a while,
Speaker 1: but uh, that didn't last long. But no, it's it.
Speaker 1: I've been playing piano since five, and then I started
Speaker 1: playing guitar and self taught. You took yourself on the guitar.
Speaker 1: How old were you when you picked up the guitar
Speaker 1: for the first maybe late teens, early twenties. And when
Speaker 1: you go then you go to Temple to study music? Why, well,
Speaker 1: at first I was going to go. I didn't think
Speaker 1: there was any money in uh, in music at all.
Speaker 1: It didn't even occur to me. Uh and to have
Speaker 1: a career in music, so I was gonna be I was.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a psychiatrist. Why because I was
Speaker 1: really interested in the life of the mind, and I
Speaker 1: was up against these I didn't realize and might and
Speaker 1: I have to tell you that you had to be
Speaker 1: a doctor to do all these thing in a medical degree.
Speaker 1: I quit that one too, and then I was up
Speaker 1: against all these kids that were like premed and I
Speaker 1: failed miserably. It was just horrible. This is not for me.
Speaker 1: I had the same problem. I was like, I had
Speaker 1: to have to study chemistry just I just want to
Speaker 1: talk to people. Yeah. Man. What happened was I did
Speaker 1: that for a year and then I switched to the
Speaker 1: Temple Music School and they you know, they let me
Speaker 1: in and you finished, you graduate and I finished, well,
Speaker 1: I I quit. I quit five weeks before I graduation
Speaker 1: because I was a student teacher and I was up,
Speaker 1: you know, early in the morning all day doing all
Speaker 1: that stuff. And then I had a bar gig, playing
Speaker 1: playing music in a bar band at night until two
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. So I didn't work out so well.
Speaker 1: And the teacher said, you know, you have to choose
Speaker 1: one or the other. And I thought to myself, do
Speaker 1: I want to be a music teacher or do I
Speaker 1: want to be a musician for real? And there was
Speaker 1: no choice in my head. So I said, okay, see
Speaker 1: you later play when you uh leave Temple, when you leave,
Speaker 1: when you finished school, what happens after that? During my
Speaker 1: time in Temple, as I said, the whole thing was
Speaker 1: sort of simultaneous. I was going to music school, but
Speaker 1: I was also hanging out with Tommy Bell and uh
Speaker 1: who was that? For people who don't know, Tommy Bell
Speaker 1: was was the the producer and writer behind oh a
Speaker 1: great number of the Philadelphia sound, the Stylistics and the
Speaker 1: Delphonics and people like that. Um, he was very, very
Speaker 1: influential in the sound of Philadelphia. And he sort of
Speaker 1: took me under his wing. He was not that much
Speaker 1: older than me, but but I would just sit around
Speaker 1: and listen to him, right and he was an amazing
Speaker 1: writer and uh so I was friendly with him. And
Speaker 1: then I also I had a band that sort of
Speaker 1: came out of that thing I was talking about in
Speaker 1: in Mitton all. And we called ourselves the temp Tones
Speaker 1: because we were a temple university. Everybody thought it was
Speaker 1: the Temptation, but it was because we were a temple
Speaker 1: and uh. We did a talent show at the Uptown Theater,
Speaker 1: which was not that far from the university from the campus,
Speaker 1: and it was on what they used to call the
Speaker 1: Chipland Circuit, and you know, every soul group on earth
Speaker 1: came to the Uptown It was like the Apollo and uh.
Speaker 1: I used to hang out there and uh, just like
Speaker 1: the Apollo, the had talent shows and we won the
Speaker 1: talent show and James Brown band was the house band
Speaker 1: backing us up. That was I was like eighteen years old.
Speaker 1: I'm singing O Baby Baby with James Brown's band at
Speaker 1: back of the and we won the talent show and
Speaker 1: the prize was you got to record a record with
Speaker 1: gam One Huff, the songwriters songwriter producers who Gamble and
Speaker 1: Huff and Tommy Bell basically created what the world knows
Speaker 1: as the sound of Philadelphia. I did a record with
Speaker 1: Gamble and Huff and it came out and went on
Speaker 1: the charts and w D A S and Philadelphia the
Speaker 1: R and B station. And I was doing all this
Speaker 1: while I was going to school, and so I became
Speaker 1: part of that whole scene. That's the I started hanging
Speaker 1: out at Sigma Sound and with studio musicians, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to be a studio musician, you know, I want
Speaker 1: to learn things from them. So that's what I was
Speaker 1: doing during my student years. And and in the meantime,
Speaker 1: I met this guy John Oates who was in Temple University. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we we were from He's from about fifteen miles
Speaker 1: from me and North Wales, Pennsylvania, just northwest of northwest
Speaker 1: of Philadelphia. So um uh we were both promoting our
Speaker 1: singles because he had he managed to get a single
Speaker 1: too on Kenny Gamble's label. He had a group called
Speaker 1: the Masters, and we were both promoting our single at
Speaker 1: this place called the Adelphi Ballroom and uh, before either
Speaker 1: one of us went on, uh, it was a gang
Speaker 1: fight broke out. This whole thing went down typical Philadelphia
Speaker 1: and it was on it was on the second floor,
Speaker 1: and you know, people started whipping chains out, and you know,
Speaker 1: the whole you know, typical, Like I said, typical, all
Speaker 1: too typical of Philadelphia at that time. And uh, we
Speaker 1: said okay, time to leave timely. So I didn't even
Speaker 1: know the guy, and we both wound up in this
Speaker 1: little elevator going downstairs. I said, okay, we just dodged
Speaker 1: that bullet. And I was looking at and said, hey,
Speaker 1: so who are you? You know? And I found out
Speaker 1: right then that he was also at Temple. I said,
Speaker 1: oh man, okay, you know because I figured Kindred Spirits
Speaker 1: here and we sort of got to know each other
Speaker 1: that way. Uh, and um then I needed I don't
Speaker 1: this is a little vague in my mind, but I
Speaker 1: needed a roommate because I was I wanted to having
Speaker 1: a apartment Philly, and he volunteered. So we we got
Speaker 1: this kid moving together. Yeah, we we moved in and
Speaker 1: we started sharing apartments. And we did that on and
Speaker 1: off through school without any idea that we were gonna
Speaker 1: work together. We were there was no plan, you know,
Speaker 1: we just he was your roommate, my roommate, you know,
Speaker 1: it was doing partner or anything. And uh so, after
Speaker 1: after school was over, I became a full time studio
Speaker 1: musician at Sigma for the whole sound of Philadelphia people.
Speaker 1: And John went to Europe for a little while, came back,
Speaker 1: had no place to live, and moved in again with
Speaker 1: me and my new I guess she was my wife
Speaker 1: at the time. And uh we we renovated this eighteenth
Speaker 1: century house right in the center of Philadelphia, lived in
Speaker 1: it for a while, and that's when we at the
Speaker 1: beginning of that bug for you as well. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about that. Yeah, and uh we decided, okay,
Speaker 1: we were in close proximity, so we just started playing
Speaker 1: together and said, well, maybe we should try doing something.
Speaker 1: Let's share a stage let's Uh, you play your songs,
Speaker 1: I'll play my songs and we'll do them together. When
Speaker 1: does songwriting begin for you? When do you decide you
Speaker 1: want to write songs around? I think I wrote a
Speaker 1: song when I was about fourteen, and I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe I can write a song. And I do remember
Speaker 1: the name of it was called I Broke my Own Heart?
Speaker 1: Was that a weird title? No? I like it? Actually,
Speaker 1: haven't we all done that? Yes? But at fourteen? What
Speaker 1: did I know? Yeah? A little advanced? That was your
Speaker 1: first song? That was the first song, I Broke my
Speaker 1: Own Heart? And when did you write your first song
Speaker 1: that you recorded? Uh? That was the song girl I
Speaker 1: Love You with the tempt telling him and that was
Speaker 1: I don't know how well was I nineteen? I guess
Speaker 1: the recording countrict you got from winning the past? So
Speaker 1: when do you and he start to How do you
Speaker 1: and he fused to become what you become? We didn't
Speaker 1: we started. It's hard to describe. We were just trying
Speaker 1: to write. We tried to write songs together, but it
Speaker 1: was more asleep. He would write songs that I would
Speaker 1: write songs and we and we do them on stage together,
Speaker 1: and we played at this place called um World Control Headquarters,
Speaker 1: which was held about a hundred people, and we became
Speaker 1: sort of a fixture there. There was another guy. You
Speaker 1: could do anything you wanted there. I would sit there
Speaker 1: with my world. It's her piano and Mike mandolin and
Speaker 1: John would play acoustic guitar and we would just tell
Speaker 1: stories and play songs. It was it was sort of
Speaker 1: in that folky tradition, but it wasn't folk music. It
Speaker 1: was something else. And uh, we did that, and we
Speaker 1: got we started getting a following doing it. And I
Speaker 1: remember one of the first things that happened was it
Speaker 1: was all kids, right because we were we were kids.
Speaker 1: But then these older people started coming when I thought
Speaker 1: were older people like forty fifty, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: and I remember and this is late sixties, and uh,
Speaker 1: I remember saying to John, you know, this is really strange.
Speaker 1: Older people like our music too, not just people our
Speaker 1: own age, that maybe we're doing something different. Because I
Speaker 1: actually said that to him, I'll never forget it. And now,
Speaker 1: of course it's the reverse. Younger kids like what I
Speaker 1: do and the older people have lived with it, right,
Speaker 1: So it's always been multi generational and multicultural something that people, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever it is, it's I think some
Speaker 1: of your songs are pretty good. Well say that people like,
Speaker 1: what's good the multi generation that happens, Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: it does for sure. I'm assuming that, Um, you meet
Speaker 1: someone who's a producer, like as your dessert, a producer
Speaker 1: that comes into your life, that takes you to the
Speaker 1: next level, that helps you make the sound, that becomes
Speaker 1: your sound. Yeah, who's that? A Reef Morten, the producer
Speaker 1: arranger behind A Wretha Franklin and you name it, Donny Hathaway,
Speaker 1: Aretha Franklin, uh oh man, on and on and on
Speaker 1: and on. I can't even tell you his his Atlantic
Speaker 1: lar and he found you where. Well that's another long story,
Speaker 1: but we have time. I'll try and and and truncated.
Speaker 1: But we were locked in this messed up relationship with
Speaker 1: a songwriter producer guy in Philadelphia. We were trying to
Speaker 1: get an album deal and he was failing us miserably.
Speaker 1: And uh he was involved with Chapel Music in New
Speaker 1: York through his catalog. And we went up to New
Speaker 1: York one time and met this young kid who was
Speaker 1: only twenty named Tommy Mantola. Two years younger than us,
Speaker 1: and and and he said, hey, well he's this guy
Speaker 1: is not doing anything for you. Let me do something
Speaker 1: for you. He's twenty years old, right, and uh why
Speaker 1: So he had connections because he had an office the
Speaker 1: size of this table in Chapel Music. But he did
Speaker 1: have a contacts. So he sent us out to California
Speaker 1: to have a chapel rep take us around two various
Speaker 1: people in California and we sort of were playing for
Speaker 1: and went shiitting basically, and uh, we found this guy,
Speaker 1: Earl McGrath, who was a really great guy and was
Speaker 1: in who's sort of developing new talent, and he wanted
Speaker 1: to sign us immediately, which was great. And then he
Speaker 1: was connected with Ahmedary again and all those people in Atlantic,
Speaker 1: and he sent us back to Atlantic and we auditioned
Speaker 1: for Ahmed. And I sat there at a piano and
Speaker 1: half the keys were stuck. They wouldn't work, so well,
Speaker 1: you know, it was this was like my big, my
Speaker 1: big day. I'm in front of Atlantic Records. I couldn't play. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I had the flute glasses on the piano.
Speaker 1: So I played badly and we sang a couple of
Speaker 1: songs and uh, I thought, okay, we blew that completely.
Speaker 1: Two days later I found out that they had called
Speaker 1: Errold said Earl, we want these guys. They're not gonna
Speaker 1: be on your label. They're gonna be on our label.
Speaker 1: And and they signed us to Atlantic Records. So then
Speaker 1: we were off to a start of some sort. We
Speaker 1: were immediately thrust into I mean I completely was thrust
Speaker 1: into a different group of musicians, all those Atlantic studio musicians, uh,
Speaker 1: everybody from Dr John to uh pretty you know, Ralph
Speaker 1: McDonald to you name it. That that that whole New
Speaker 1: York R and B scene, And they were all unbelievable musicians.
Speaker 1: And they're the guys that played on our first records,
Speaker 1: especially on the abandoned lunch Net record. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the musicianship when that record is unbelievable. So I was
Speaker 1: in that world, in that scene. I mean A Wreatha
Speaker 1: was wandering in and out and Bob Dylan was wandering
Speaker 1: in and out. I mean we're just like, what's going on.
Speaker 1: It's a big machinery, you know, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: it's Atlantic Records. Back when people were buying records, they
Speaker 1: choose you if they believe in you, and they get
Speaker 1: their marketing behind you. It's kind of hard to fail,
Speaker 1: correct if you have some talent. Well, it wasn't quite
Speaker 1: like that, not in those days. It was. It was
Speaker 1: still a lot freer and looser. And I remember I'm
Speaker 1: saying to me and John, he said, just just make
Speaker 1: just make music. We'll figure out how to sell it.
Speaker 1: That's what he said. And uh, he said, don't worry
Speaker 1: about hits or don't worry about it. You know that.
Speaker 1: That's he said. Don't worry about it. Literally said that,
Speaker 1: don't worry about hits, marriage just do you just do
Speaker 1: what you'll make it a hits, do what you do.
Speaker 1: But they didn't. That was the thing. We were a
Speaker 1: little strange for the world at that time. We're I
Speaker 1: won't say we're ahead of our time. We were out
Speaker 1: of our time, but so we I don't know what
Speaker 1: what what was? First of all, we were doing a
Speaker 1: hybrid of Philadelphia soul and other kinds of R and
Speaker 1: B and mixed with this other eclectic kind of thing
Speaker 1: that John brought in, you know, like country music and
Speaker 1: all kinds of other stuff, singer songwriter kind of things,
Speaker 1: and dance music, you name it. It was hybrid eised
Speaker 1: and and and also in those days, they had no
Speaker 1: idea how to label us because we were popular on
Speaker 1: black radio, not even known on white radio. And the
Speaker 1: whole idea of musical integration was not ready for the world.
Speaker 1: I mean we were, we were pioneers in that. And
Speaker 1: when did the first hits come. It wasn't until nine
Speaker 1: five when we actually went to our see A Records.
Speaker 1: We left Atlantic and went towards uh m hmm. I
Speaker 1: think it's an extent you can say. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean it was business. I mean, I think it
Speaker 1: was mutual. I think that we felt that they didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what what we felt.
Speaker 1: That a lot of it has to do with what
Speaker 1: how Tommy Mattola felt, you know. But they I think
Speaker 1: that they were saying, Okay, well we don't know if
Speaker 1: we can sell you guys. And they tried, and then
Speaker 1: they tried and then uh yeah, And so we went
Speaker 1: to our c A and immediately they did know how
Speaker 1: to sell us. Dissatisfied last time I asked him, I
Speaker 1: really got excuse that play. You're listening to my interview
Speaker 1: with Darryl Hall of Hall and Oats. Another musical hero
Speaker 1: of mine is David Crosby. When he came by the
Speaker 1: studio last year, he told me about how hard living
Speaker 1: influenced his music and landed him in the Texas State
Speaker 1: penn There he went through heroin withdrawal as his fellow
Speaker 1: convicts looked on. Full Ranger went all away from like
Speaker 1: music man to uh hey, rock star, how are you
Speaker 1: doing now? Hey vern? Look over here? Rock Star going
Speaker 1: up again? Was Texas. Yeah, they didn't even have a
Speaker 1: meetings in prison and nothing. You had no help at all,
Speaker 1: and you crawled out of there. Was bitter. It was bitter,
Speaker 1: but I woke up. My full interview with David Crosby
Speaker 1: is in our archives that Here's the Thing, dot Org.
Speaker 1: I'll return with Darryl Hall after the break. So, m,
Speaker 1: this is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing when we left. Darryl Hall's a story it
Speaker 1: was and Hall and Oates were with a major label
Speaker 1: but had no big hits to show for it, so
Speaker 1: they left Atlantic for our c A. The die was cast,
Speaker 1: and then we put out Sarah's Smile on Black radio
Speaker 1: and it became a top five R and B record
Speaker 1: in all the black stations in America, and then then
Speaker 1: the white stations started playing it afterward, Baby with the Womans,
Speaker 1: I can feel you watching in the night Hallollo with me.
Speaker 1: We're waiting for the sunlight. Ah and I feel cold,
Speaker 1: yea wom me And when I feel I can't go back,
Speaker 1: you'll come at me and me wherever. Sarah Smile. Sarah
Speaker 1: and Sarah Smiled was our first hit, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: things happened. Then Atlantic said, oh wait a minute, okay,
Speaker 1: they did are work for us in Atlantic put out
Speaker 1: She's Gone after that, and She's Gone became a hit
Speaker 1: immediately after Sarah Smile a re release. Soon after that,
Speaker 1: we had Rich Girl and You're Off And you stayed
Speaker 1: with our CIA for how long we stayed with our
Speaker 1: CIA through shipes seven? I think what was touring for
Speaker 1: you like back then? Did you enjoy touring? I enjoyed touring,
Speaker 1: especially because we became popular all over the world very early, right,
Speaker 1: I mean England embraced us like from the beginning from
Speaker 1: seventy I think seventy four seventy five is when we
Speaker 1: first started playing in England, and so we started doing
Speaker 1: a lot of touring in Europe and that it just
Speaker 1: you know, opens up your brain and we're kids, right.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of fun that changed you and him.
Speaker 1: Sex symbolism, rock stardom. It was fame. If you're in
Speaker 1: your mid to late twenties and and you're running around
Speaker 1: the world and people are throwing there whatever at you, uh,
Speaker 1: you indulge that unless you're crazy, you know. I took
Speaker 1: advantage of whatever was opportunities where I was having fun. Man,
Speaker 1: I was you know. The one thing though, I was
Speaker 1: never into cocaine. I just didn't. I have a very
Speaker 1: sensitive nervous system. It doesn't work for me. But I didn't.
Speaker 1: But I I did it, just I didn't like it.
Speaker 1: So you guys were dancing around coke daddy your brains
Speaker 1: and I was completely sleeping taking it. Now, I wasn't
Speaker 1: sleeping sex, drugs and rock and roll without the drugs.
Speaker 1: But when you so you go on tour, do you
Speaker 1: get sick of it? Do you get sick of the attention?
Speaker 1: Do you get sick of going on the road? You know?
Speaker 1: I mean then mean when you're resting and everything, you're
Speaker 1: becoming this huge musical act. At one point you would
Speaker 1: look at each other and go. I really want to
Speaker 1: stop for a while. You know. It's funny. I look
Speaker 1: back at it, and it it feels like I had
Speaker 1: more time off than I do now. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I must have. I felt like I would go out
Speaker 1: and I would tour, and I would go balls to
Speaker 1: the wall for whatever a month and we'd work, you know,
Speaker 1: every day with no days off, and and I would
Speaker 1: take it all in everything, you know, stay up all
Speaker 1: the stay up late, do you know, do everything you
Speaker 1: can imagine, and uh, then then we'd stop, and then
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be doing anything other than going to a studio,
Speaker 1: go into studio or right and prepare to go. You
Speaker 1: find that you go on the road more now, like
Speaker 1: most acts go on the road more because that's really
Speaker 1: the only one you can make real money. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I tour all the time, and uh I I
Speaker 1: I'm busy, man, I'm much busier now than I was.
Speaker 1: In fact, I don't have time to make a record
Speaker 1: as that. I've been trying to make a record and
Speaker 1: I have to do it in little dribs and drabs
Speaker 1: and starts and stops, and uh, it's to try and
Speaker 1: get into a flow. Is really really hard. Was there
Speaker 1: was there and I'm not assuming there was there a
Speaker 1: spot in your career were you sut there you go?
Speaker 1: This is it, man, we we This is the top
Speaker 1: that happens very seldom, but it did happen. There was
Speaker 1: a period of a very small period of time in
Speaker 1: where we did we Are the world I played, I
Speaker 1: reopened the Apollo Theater with the temptations, uh live aid
Speaker 1: and uh just we'll just use those three things all
Speaker 1: within a month and a half. And I remember thinking
Speaker 1: to myself, Okay, I I feel like I'm here. I'm
Speaker 1: doing something right now that I know is a significant thing.
Speaker 1: This is and I'm experiencing it. I'm here now, be
Speaker 1: here now. Yes, that's that's one of the few times
Speaker 1: it's ever happened. So take me through, just just in
Speaker 1: a shorthand what the tour is like? In two of
Speaker 1: the evening the show, is there a prep you do?
Speaker 1: Is there kind of is there? Is there a vocal
Speaker 1: thing you do? You know, talk all day and something?
Speaker 1: What I what I do is I lay in bed
Speaker 1: all day, rest, I just read all day, hang out,
Speaker 1: don't do anything about Oh late afternoon I might power
Speaker 1: an up and then I wake up and drink a
Speaker 1: whole shipload of tea, green tea to really wake myself up.
Speaker 1: It's all this preparation towards this crescendo. And then I
Speaker 1: get to a gig, never more than an hour before
Speaker 1: the show, put on my meg up, talk to the band,
Speaker 1: laugh with the band, have a couple of drinks, hit
Speaker 1: the stage, and uh, that's that's the all the time,
Speaker 1: same band. Much rehearsals involved with you, guys, not much.
Speaker 1: We even together a long time. We know, we really
Speaker 1: so most of the work you do tour now was
Speaker 1: with John or uh no, most of us with Johnson. John.
Speaker 1: I do do the occasional solo stuff, but no, it's
Speaker 1: mostly with John these days right now anyway, And is
Speaker 1: scheduling between the two of you? Is it easy? You
Speaker 1: both through in the same kind of group, you know,
Speaker 1: when you want to go out, time of year you
Speaker 1: want to go, We work this out. We both like
Speaker 1: the same kind of touring schedule. We're very still, very
Speaker 1: much the same when it comes to that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we we have a good relationship. John and I do
Speaker 1: my TV show. That's that's something else. How the hell
Speaker 1: do you get people to come to a house and
Speaker 1: upstate New York. You tell me, man, it's the people.
Speaker 1: You've had one of the most gratifying things ever in
Speaker 1: my life that I could get Smokey Robinson to come
Speaker 1: to a MENI in New York up there, which is
Speaker 1: twenty miles north of here, take time off his schedule
Speaker 1: art to come and do it. He was one of
Speaker 1: the first ones whose idea was it to do this thing? Man?
Speaker 1: And how did it start? I just thought, let's just
Speaker 1: turn everything upside down, you know, and that of me
Speaker 1: studio there, yeah, and every everything is opposite. Instead of
Speaker 1: me going around the world, I bring the world to me.
Speaker 1: There is no audience and all these people would just come.
Speaker 1: And I only had this internet show. It was. It
Speaker 1: was very small, nobody knew about it, but these people
Speaker 1: were coming from all over the world to do this.
Speaker 1: Then it caught on and then it became a little
Speaker 1: easier to book. But still do you release the recordings
Speaker 1: of these can be or its only lives because because
Speaker 1: otherwise you do what pay them and pay rights to
Speaker 1: The One thing people don't realize is how expensive the
Speaker 1: show is because of clearances. We had such a hard
Speaker 1: time with that over the years, especially in the beginning.
Speaker 1: Once we established it, then it was sort of okay,
Speaker 1: But it was really really difficult because I was in there,
Speaker 1: you know, totally innocent. I said, Okay, this is promotion
Speaker 1: for the record companies, promotion for the artists. Why should
Speaker 1: they not want this? But they were looking at it
Speaker 1: like we were napster, you know, like we were taking
Speaker 1: money out of their pockets. And I was like, what
Speaker 1: money am I taking out of your pocket? I'm helping you,
Speaker 1: I'm giving you free from ocean. But forget about it.
Speaker 1: We had to deal with lawyers, we had to deal
Speaker 1: with record people, we had to deal with managers, and
Speaker 1: everybody wanted their thing, and the clearances. It became so
Speaker 1: high cost. It's a very it's a very hard show
Speaker 1: to pull. You haven't kind a record of it. You
Speaker 1: haven't kind God, that would be so hard to do.
Speaker 1: It would be almost impossible because so many people would
Speaker 1: have to get things. But everybody's publisher would have to
Speaker 1: get something, every artist, every label, and oh my god,
Speaker 1: But so I guess my idea that I have for you,
Speaker 1: I have an idea I want I want to produce
Speaker 1: with you. I guess my idea for you isn't gonna fly?
Speaker 1: What would that be one? Having seen the Springsteen thing,
Speaker 1: what a phenomenon that was. And my idea for you
Speaker 1: was to do at Darryl's house on Broadway, on Broadway
Speaker 1: and for one week, each artist comes on and plays
Speaker 1: a whole week of shows with you, and every week
Speaker 1: it changes it's another group and you do what on
Speaker 1: broad Well, that would be doable. Okay, here here's our
Speaker 1: Broadway story. We we've been spending five years. We got
Speaker 1: to the point where this guy uh was was writing
Speaker 1: a book, the guy that did Rock of Ages, Chris Derenzo.
Speaker 1: Somebody's throwing down a shipload of money. And we read
Speaker 1: Chris's book and everybody thinks it sucks. So we're back
Speaker 1: to square one after five years. So I'm ready for
Speaker 1: I'm ready for new ideas. You're welcome, Thank you. That
Speaker 1: is a good idea. You're you're making a fuck with
Speaker 1: a lot of work for me, though I know you
Speaker 1: don't want to work at Hark. You want to flip houses.
Speaker 1: I hate Broadway, man, that you gotta play all those
Speaker 1: days and two days and Wednesday as easy for well,
Speaker 1: let's see, let's over to your on that show. There's
Speaker 1: some people I see who come there and they really
Speaker 1: kind of rise to the occasion. Yes, you almost. Somebody
Speaker 1: who I know a little bit. I worked with them
Speaker 1: years ago is Kevin Bacon. And I've always had Kevin
Speaker 1: peg to somebody who's as cool as a cucumber. And
Speaker 1: yet even Kevin, when he's singing with his brother When
Speaker 1: the Morning Comes, you can almost see a piece of Kevin,
Speaker 1: there's a little glint of it. Was like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe I'm singing When the Morning Comes with Darryl Hall.
Speaker 1: That was a fun show. I mean, Kevin lives near here,
Speaker 1: and uh, I've known Kevin outside of this stuff. But
Speaker 1: there's two different kinds of people. There's brand new people
Speaker 1: who are looking at me like they have to get
Speaker 1: over that, you know, and and be you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Some of these people just had their first
Speaker 1: record and they can't believe they have to like do
Speaker 1: this stuff on their feet. They're not used to it,
Speaker 1: and to see them rise to the occasion blows me away.
Speaker 1: I just I feel very uh paternal about him, I
Speaker 1: guess that's the right word. And then there's the veterans
Speaker 1: who are used to doing things their own way and
Speaker 1: used to doing these arrangements they've been doing for thirty
Speaker 1: years and forty years. Well there's there's a perfect one.
Speaker 1: In fact, I had to call him out on the
Speaker 1: show about him, you can see that, because he was
Speaker 1: trying to make it into the like his live show.
Speaker 1: And I said, no, no, this is Darryl Sauz. This
Speaker 1: is forget it, Kenny, let's do it this, let's not
Speaker 1: do it. You know what you've been doing. Change is
Speaker 1: a good. Change is good. Change is good. And it's
Speaker 1: funny to see the veteran artists adapt to this, Like
Speaker 1: on the Spot, there are brains are going like this.
Speaker 1: It's talk to me about flipping houses and what's your
Speaker 1: term for restoration? Uh? Losing a whole lot of money
Speaker 1: on houses tax write offs? No, and I wish now.
Speaker 1: My other personality is totally immersed in history. And I
Speaker 1: grew up in old houses. I grew up with a
Speaker 1: family of people who worked on old houses and lived
Speaker 1: in old houses. You know, outside of Philadelphia it's, you know,
Speaker 1: a star. I lived in Valley Forge for dad's sake,
Speaker 1: you know. I grew up in those kind of houses,
Speaker 1: A seventeen hundred houses and everything. I used to go
Speaker 1: on job sites with my grandfather who used was a
Speaker 1: stonemason and a brick person, used to restore old chimneys
Speaker 1: and do all that kind of thing and actually build
Speaker 1: houses too, And so I would watch the construction of
Speaker 1: these things, and I was very I don't know, I
Speaker 1: really really liked that world because it's it's not that
Speaker 1: dissimilar to music in some strange way. It's making something
Speaker 1: out of nothing. It's you know that that whole old
Speaker 1: saw about architectures frozen music. What's the first project you
Speaker 1: did in that regard other than the apartment with John Well? Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a whole house. That was the first one.
Speaker 1: This house was taken over by people who I guess
Speaker 1: just I don't even know what it was. They ruined,
Speaker 1: they basically gutted the house. But it was a house
Speaker 1: from about eighteen hundred and uh. It was one of
Speaker 1: those small Philadelphia houses that they call him Father's Son
Speaker 1: Holy Ghost houses because there's three rooms on three floors.
Speaker 1: It's a very typical small house in Philly. We were
Speaker 1: faced with the shell of this house, so I basically
Speaker 1: got in there and started renovating it. And we did.
Speaker 1: We renovated it. I don't know how much John had
Speaker 1: to do with it, although he like he likes this
Speaker 1: kind of thing as well. He actually became a general
Speaker 1: contractor when he built his house. He went to school
Speaker 1: for it. But he doesn't do his storic houses. My
Speaker 1: thing is is historic houses and how many of you
Speaker 1: done I've done that when I've done too in England.
Speaker 1: So if you're restoring houses in England, you're living over there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Why I live in England as much as
Speaker 1: a low in America. Outside of London, I live in Why,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I love it. I have family there. Well,
Speaker 1: my family is partly from England, but also I had
Speaker 1: a britt wife and British kids. Now, how many kids
Speaker 1: do you have? I have to and they were in England,
Speaker 1: the ones in London, and one was just it wasn't
Speaker 1: in Charleston's, South Carolina with me for a while and
Speaker 1: she's now moved to l a anybody in the music business.
Speaker 1: The two kids, both of them, they're both they we
Speaker 1: want of them work with you. Yeah, March my daughter,
Speaker 1: she's a really good musician. We wrote a song a
Speaker 1: week ago. You're not married now, but wasn't one of
Speaker 1: your wives your partners the restoration of the houses. Amanda,
Speaker 1: she's unfortunately gone. She died almost a year ago. But
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, well, yeah, she was.
Speaker 1: I did a lot of interior design things like that.
Speaker 1: So we we worked on There was a good partner
Speaker 1: for that. She was really good about that. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: there's a house about three miles from here that that
Speaker 1: we've worked on. Now I'm finishing it. So do you
Speaker 1: own all your publishing? You have all your publishing? No.
Speaker 1: I I was very stupid, like many people are over
Speaker 1: the years. But I let's just say at the end
Speaker 1: my apology, right, and that that's a tough reality for
Speaker 1: some people. Was antistic. I was. I was so stupid.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. I didn't I didn't know. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what it meant. I didn't know that it
Speaker 1: meant everything right, right? And when you would write songs,
Speaker 1: you told me that you and he it was it
Speaker 1: was more he'd do his thing, you do your thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, truthfully, I've written the bulk of the songs,
Speaker 1: but I mean I noticed him when I read this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but also a lot of this stuff, A lot of
Speaker 1: the if you look at the songwriting credits, a lot
Speaker 1: of the were very haphazardly attributed, you know, but uh,
Speaker 1: we did. I mean that's not to denigrate what we've
Speaker 1: done together for sure. Do you have any connection now
Speaker 1: currently to Philadelphia and then in that area back there?
Speaker 1: I have a familial connection my most of my family
Speaker 1: got there in the early sevent hundreds have never left.
Speaker 1: There's no Darryl Hall Scholarship, but there's I do have.
Speaker 1: I do have a star on Broad Street. I got that.
Speaker 1: And every year John and I do a festival in
Speaker 1: Philly called Ogi Nation. It's literally good when is that?
Speaker 1: What time of year? Memorial Day weekend. It's a region
Speaker 1: that's defined by it's fast food. It's New York without
Speaker 1: the ego. It's so elegant, and there's so much to
Speaker 1: do and see there. I love. Philadelphia is a very
Speaker 1: special place. Yeah, let me just finish with this, which
Speaker 1: is why do you think it is that you can
Speaker 1: sing the way that you can. It has to do
Speaker 1: with how your brain works. You know. I'm a very
Speaker 1: spontaneous singer. I'm a very free singer. And you don't
Speaker 1: know where you're gonna go, man, where I'm gonna know
Speaker 1: once it's it's not intellectual. It's there is no thought involved.
Speaker 1: It's total spontaneity. I'm just a bird. It's opening my
Speaker 1: mouth and shirpen away. And I've been lucky enough to
Speaker 1: be blessed with the physiology to pull that off. That's
Speaker 1: that's really what it's all about. Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: If I could sing, I want to sing like you. Alright,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing Oh this is good,
Speaker 1: it's great. When A big thank you to vocalist and
Speaker 1: songwriter Darryl Hall for inviting me into his club and
Speaker 1: giving me so much of his time. I'm Alec Baldwin
Speaker 1: and you're listening to Here's the Thing when you shot
Speaker 1: now standing here. Wait, it'll be all right, Lord and
Speaker 1: wh