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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports where in a situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, the pandemic

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Speaker 1: here has really accelerated the investments that we've been advocating

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Speaker 1: for for a year. From a macro standpoint, I think

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Speaker 1: our sport industry is really forced to look at the

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Speaker 1: business a little bit differently. In depth conversations with the

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Speaker 1: leaders in the sports industry and sport, there's a good admiration.

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Speaker 1: We're still moving forward part of something much bigger than

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Speaker 1: the sport right now, the health and tradustry of our

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Speaker 1: stakeholders are real, smart important every moment. I think we're

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Speaker 1: all from a business respective thinking about the impact that

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Speaker 1: the virus is having across the country. In Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports from Bloomberg Radio, everyone, I'm Jason Kelly, and

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Speaker 1: I'm Mike Lynch and I'm Michael Barr And this is

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where we explore the

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Speaker 1: big money issues in the world of sports. Well. I

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Speaker 1: love getting together on Monday's guys, because we sort of

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Speaker 1: get to break down the weekend. You know, I spent

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Speaker 1: some time we were talking a little bit before we

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Speaker 1: came on the air about you know, seeing some I've sports,

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Speaker 1: some live youth sports, my own youths, uh playing some sports,

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Speaker 1: which is a sign of life, I know, Lynch. He

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Speaker 1: made his way to a neighboring town in order to

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Speaker 1: uh avoid some chores and took in a game. Not

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Speaker 1: that he wasn't excited about the game. Uh fans up

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Speaker 1: in the Massachusetts area. But uh sports are back in

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Speaker 1: in in in a big way, and certainly a couple

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Speaker 1: of tournaments are front and center, the n C Double

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Speaker 1: A women's and men's basketball tournaments. Michael Barr, what do

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Speaker 1: you make of it this week? Were you watching games? Oh? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I was, because I'm in the pool. I got money

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Speaker 1: on these things, and I think what I am impressed

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Speaker 1: in my bracket, believe it or not, is still intact

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Speaker 1: because in the men's n C Double A tournament, three

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Speaker 1: of the top four seated teams at the beginning are

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Speaker 1: still in it. And I have those teams going deep

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Speaker 1: in this. So we're gonna see what's gonna happen as

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Speaker 1: we progress. But I've got Gonzaga going all the way.

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Speaker 1: Good Zag it looks pretty good. Good Zaga looks very good, Uh, Lynchi,

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Speaker 1: Those Catholics uh doing doing themselves. Okay, although nova UM

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Speaker 1: obviously didn't didn't quite get there. Although there weren't a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of expectations there. What did you make of

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Speaker 1: the games? I mean, it feels like they are pulling

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Speaker 1: it off in Indianapolis. They are, And you know it's

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Speaker 1: the way they the cameras frame the court, they frame

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Speaker 1: out fans anyway, the only time you see fans is

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Speaker 1: like a cutaway shot and then you see, you know,

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Speaker 1: how space out they are unless they were family all

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Speaker 1: sitting together. And most of the time they show coaches

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Speaker 1: wives and coaches children, who are you know, in all

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Speaker 1: kinds of angst watching watching the game. But yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: they're pulling it off. Unlike the instably hockey, which had

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Speaker 1: to have two major universities forfeit, Notre Dame and in

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Speaker 1: Michigan had to forfeit because of COVID. Knock on wood,

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Speaker 1: it's working in Indianapolis. I mean, all those teams that

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Speaker 1: are out there playing in three or four different venues, hotels,

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Speaker 1: eating the same food in the same places. It's working.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know, knock on wood, they're not too

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Speaker 1: far from the finish line. Yeah, and you know this

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Speaker 1: is a bubble that's getting smaller. There is no expansion

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Speaker 1: to the bubble at this point as best I can tell.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know, so now as we record this

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Speaker 1: on on Monday morning, we're down to the elite eight. Um,

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Speaker 1: by the end of the night Tuesday night will be

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Speaker 1: we'll have the final four set. So you would imagine

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Speaker 1: that unless something really weird happens, they are they are

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Speaker 1: in a very good spot to finish this out. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, next Monday we'll be talking about the final matchup,

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Speaker 1: which is which is pretty amazing. Um. The other interesting

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Speaker 1: thing to watch over the weekend was so much interest,

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Speaker 1: it feels like a heightened interest in the women's n

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Speaker 1: C Double A tournament and setting aside for a moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, everything that's been going on as it relates

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Speaker 1: to the economic inequality between these two tournaments, a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge amount of interest on the broadcast side, on the

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Speaker 1: social media side in this matchup on Saturday, Yukon versus Iowa,

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Speaker 1: and you know, two freshman players who really are going

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Speaker 1: to dominate the women's game for some time to come.

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Speaker 1: Yukon shockingly u ends up on top. But I was

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Speaker 1: actually surprised and pleasantly so lynchy that it really drew

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Speaker 1: a lot of interest and folks are tuning in, they are,

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Speaker 1: and then there's, uh, there's so many. I have three daughters,

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Speaker 1: they're in their thirties now. I coached girls basketball of six,

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Speaker 1: seventh and eighth grade, and I just I felt a

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Speaker 1: surge in those three years of interest and participation in

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Speaker 1: the number of girls that were trying out. Now Here,

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Speaker 1: we fast forward a few years later, and we've got

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Speaker 1: the most storied uh college basketball, women's college basketball. I

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Speaker 1: know Tennessee can make an argument, but it is Yukon

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Speaker 1: for for this day and age. And you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're a purist basketball purist, there's something about the women's

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Speaker 1: game that's so enjoyable to watch because they actually passed

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Speaker 1: the basketball and they actually said picks and rolls. And

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Speaker 1: if you're a fundamentalist and you like it, this is

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Speaker 1: a great, great Uh that's a great showcase. And what's interesting, uh,

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr, is that and we saw this to some extent,

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting comparison between the professional women's game in

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Speaker 1: the professional men's game and the college women's game. The

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Speaker 1: college men's game um incredibly front and center when it

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Speaker 1: comes to social media, the women's players are and that

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Speaker 1: seems to be helping in terms of viewership and tuning

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Speaker 1: in exactly. And and that's why social media this is

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Speaker 1: a plus, let's put it that way for social media,

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Speaker 1: and it's hoping to get the women's basketball out there.

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Speaker 1: And and I'm like what Lynchi was saying, I enjoy

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Speaker 1: it because the skills of the game are highlighted and

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Speaker 1: I love seeing that. I I love seeing the passing,

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Speaker 1: I love seeing someone set up. It's it's very it's

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Speaker 1: very cool. And And a shout out by the way,

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Speaker 1: because Baylor, uh, for the women are they look good?

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Speaker 1: And this could be a Baylor year for both the

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Speaker 1: men's and women's basketball team. Yeah, Baylor, look you strong

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Speaker 1: in both of those brackets, that's for sure. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, uh, as you mentioned on the men's side,

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks have Gonzaga, a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: have Baylor at least getting to that final game. And

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Speaker 1: we'll see how that all ends up. I mean, speaking

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Speaker 1: of the of women in social media. I came across

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Speaker 1: something via Kendall Baker and Axios this morning. It's a

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Speaker 1: newsletter that I read just about that every day. He's

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Speaker 1: very smart about all things sports and especially uh digs

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Speaker 1: into some of the sports business side, talking about name,

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Speaker 1: image and likeness, which full disclosure, I'm working on a

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Speaker 1: piece for Quick Take Originals over Bloomberg about this and

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Speaker 1: namage image and like it says you guys, well know

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Speaker 1: is this whole notion of athletes being compensated for their

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Speaker 1: n I and L and I or L And what's

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Speaker 1: fascinating and Lyncha you alluded to this the Yukon women's program.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think a Yukon fan and I have

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Speaker 1: talked to many over the years, would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is one of the most dominant college teams. The

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Speaker 1: only comparison that I think you can really make a

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Speaker 1: cross basketball is probably U. C. L A back in

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Speaker 1: the in the wooden days. In terms of just the

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Speaker 1: the length of this dynasty, it's incredible. And what's so

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Speaker 1: interesting about it. In this Kendall Baker pieces, they actually

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Speaker 1: go through and they rank the social media followings and

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Speaker 1: start to put a number on what these women and

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Speaker 1: there are some men on this list too in college

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Speaker 1: could earn UH and these these especially in the case

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Speaker 1: of the women, could be their sort of peak earning

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Speaker 1: when it comes to their athletic careers in many ways,

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Speaker 1: so interesting to think about when that comes into effect,

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Speaker 1: which is going to come into effect in a couple

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Speaker 1: of states later this year. There's some federal legislation, uh

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Speaker 1: maybe not surprisingly led by Chris Murphy, who is a

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senator U S Senator from Connecticut, to to get

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Speaker 1: players paid for for their name, image and likeness. And

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Speaker 1: you know, Lynch, you for me, this is overdue, it's fair.

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Speaker 1: It's a way to you know, compensate athletes that doesn't

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Speaker 1: involve them being paid directly by the institutions. I think

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Speaker 1: the time has come. You know, I've always been the

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Speaker 1: contrarian on this and I'm going to still be the

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Speaker 1: contrarian here. I just see that they're getting a three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollar education, that their college playing experience is

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Speaker 1: their platform to showcase their talent, increase their visibility, marketability,

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Speaker 1: and their worth. And they wouldn't be able to accomplish

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Speaker 1: any of this if they weren't playing on the stage

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Speaker 1: of college basketball, which just about everything game is televised.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go the other way on this one. Jays.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, buddy, but no I'm interested. Listen, you are

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Speaker 1: not alone in in uh in in making this case.

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Speaker 1: I think that your your ranks, I dare say, are

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Speaker 1: shrinking on this. But you know, we'll see, we'll see,

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Speaker 1: all right, going down fighting. I'm going down fighting. Bar

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Speaker 1: you're the typebreaker here. Well, I'm sorry, Lynchy, I got

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Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing, and and this is the

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Speaker 1: part where I have the problem. You can make the

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Speaker 1: argument what you're saying links about you know, money for

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Speaker 1: you know, putting up for the education. But if you're

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Speaker 1: going to use mine likeness in a game, and no,

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Speaker 1: I can't go along with that. It's that's where I've

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Speaker 1: got the problem. So I love everybody. So, Lynchi, the

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Speaker 1: the interesting argument that I've heard of late, and I

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Speaker 1: have been digging into this, uh fairly deeply, um And

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Speaker 1: I spoke to a lawyer who's going to be arguing

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Speaker 1: this before the Supreme Court, and and one of the

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Speaker 1: things that one of the arguments that he makes, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of against the argument you're making, is

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Speaker 1: this notion that athletes are set aside and set differently

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Speaker 1: from a scientist or a journalist or anybody else on

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Speaker 1: campus who may also be getting a scholarship for for

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Speaker 1: what they're doing, and they can be paid, you know,

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Speaker 1: and they can be somehow compensated for for the work

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Speaker 1: that they create or something that they do. So I

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Speaker 1: just feel like it's something that that really does need

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Speaker 1: to be looked at. And certainly we can we can

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Speaker 1: agree to disagree, and I and I certainly do not

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Speaker 1: diminish the value of an education and that is a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge boon um for sure in many of these cases.

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Speaker 1: But um, we'll see where it ends up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is this is the year where where this is

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Speaker 1: going to be figured out. And uh, you know it's

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Speaker 1: also and we can move on to the next topic

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Speaker 1: in a minute. But there's also you know, this vast

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Speaker 1: difference between you know how athletes in basketball slash football

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Speaker 1: sort of the big tier sports versus the other sports

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Speaker 1: are treated. And um, there is a there's a perversion,

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Speaker 1: as it were, of the whole amateurism model. And I

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Speaker 1: guess the big question is how do we fix that,

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Speaker 1: um going forward? Because something went awry at some point

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Speaker 1: in terms of the money that's being made by the

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Speaker 1: coaches and and all of those things. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you guys know I come from the South and when

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Speaker 1: I look at the fact that in many many states,

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Speaker 1: the highest paid state employee is the head football coach,

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Speaker 1: and then the second highest paid is either the basketball

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Speaker 1: coach or an assistant football coach. Like, something's a little

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Speaker 1: off there, uh, just in terms of the economics of

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Speaker 1: all this, But there's so many other perks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: these these kids don't have to stand in line to

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Speaker 1: register for class. They're just if you're a varsity basketball

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Speaker 1: and football player, your classes are already registered by some

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Speaker 1: coordinator within the football or basketball office. Your books are

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Speaker 1: bought for you. I mean. The only thing that I

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Speaker 1: make the lean the other way is that if any

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Speaker 1: of this uh income they generate from the name, image

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Speaker 1: and likeness is put in scrow and they can't touch

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Speaker 1: it until they leave school or they graduate. I just

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Speaker 1: see you see, you know, Johnny mackenzie walking around campus

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Speaker 1: with you know, ten bucks in his pocket and driving

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Speaker 1: a brand new Corvette. That's what I don't want to see. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well, we'll see where the where the courts

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Speaker 1: of the legislator legislatures, uh ultimately come down on this. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: more money coming. Speaking of money to the NFL, the players,

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Speaker 1: certainly the owners, certainly the league more broadcast money because

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have an extra game, you know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know until I looked into it. Michael Barr, This was

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Speaker 1: a very close vote for the players. The players are

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Speaker 1: not despite the fact that there is at least some

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Speaker 1: measure of additional marginal revenue coming to them. Uh many many,

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Speaker 1: many were not uh in favor of this. I used

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Speaker 1: to be one of those guys. Yeah, it's like, give

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Speaker 1: me more games. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, when you have

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Speaker 1: that many games and you see all the injuries because

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Speaker 1: you're going full out, and and that's what changed my mind.

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Speaker 1: I remember back in the day when it went from

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Speaker 1: fourteen to sixteen, and and I was thinking, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's let's make it eighteen now. But which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: that moved from fourteen to sixteen. Keep me honest, youre

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Speaker 1: guys that was in the seventies, right, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's hard because these guys are going full out

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Speaker 1: and and I mean you think of just the gruesome

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Speaker 1: injuries that are out there. It's it's scary. So I am,

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Speaker 1: if anything, I'm for cutting back on the exhibition games

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Speaker 1: and just keeping it at sixteen games. Well, Um, you've

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Speaker 1: been outvoted by the league. I mean, so, Lynchy, is

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Speaker 1: this just about money? Absolutely about money for the owners

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Speaker 1: right here? And uh, it's another game that's being televised.

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Speaker 1: It's not a preseason game. Whe there are a very

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Speaker 1: few eyeballs on it, especially that that fourth preseason game.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no, nobody's playing in that game. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the the starters don't even have to take a shower,

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Speaker 1: they don't even have to watch the uniforms. But this

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Speaker 1: is big. And you know, when when the Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: ends in the first Sunday in February, we're all wanting

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Speaker 1: for more. So now it's gonna go another week. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna go the week of the Sunday before President's Weekend. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the players approved it in the CBA agreement last year. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're only gripe right now is health and safety. But

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Speaker 1: I think the league has done a good job. Concussions

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Speaker 1: were was was such a hot button topic a few

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Speaker 1: years ago, and you rarely hear about that right now. Um,

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Speaker 1: they have changed the kickoff where a lot of injuries happen,

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Speaker 1: and there aren't a lot of injuries happening in the

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Speaker 1: kicking game anymore. So I think the league has gotten

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Speaker 1: a little bit safer than it was before. Um, and

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Speaker 1: now I think it's time. I think seventeen games is

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Speaker 1: great because I can't stand watching four games. I mean,

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Speaker 1: absolutely nothing. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this

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Speaker 1: plays out. I mean. One of the sort of ripple effects,

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Speaker 1: and I think we've joked about this on this show before,

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Speaker 1: but it is not a joke in some ways, is

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Speaker 1: that if you do and it looks like this is

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen, you push the super Bowl back to

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Speaker 1: that that second Sunday in February, which gives you President's

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Speaker 1: Day as the day after all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 1: have super Bowl Monday as effectively a national holiday. So

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Speaker 1: I mean there is a not insignificant ripple effect of

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Speaker 1: people being like, yeah, I'm gonna have an even bigger

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Speaker 1: super Bowl super Bowl party because Monday is going to

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Speaker 1: be that much better. We see now, Okay, here, it's

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Speaker 1: the contrary in here because when you push it back

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Speaker 1: and you know, my favorite sport, NASCAR, and you have

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Speaker 1: clashed into the Dayton of five, I am not happy

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Speaker 1: about that at all. It's okay, that's on Monday, right

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Speaker 1: on Sunday Sunday Sunday Sunday. Interesting, So what do you

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Speaker 1: think they'll do if you're running NASCAR, what would you do.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have to push it back. You're gonna and

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Speaker 1: if you can do it, I mean, you know, messed

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Speaker 1: up my schedule. Man, I'm watching NASCAR, So what what

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Speaker 1: can I say? Man, I'm just ripple effects all over

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Speaker 1: the place here. Nascar fans know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: This weird. We're very protective of that Sunday. We are.

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Speaker 1: We are It's you know, Valentine, even though sometimes it

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Speaker 1: fell on on Time's Day. It was okay, sorry, honey, baby,

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Speaker 1: on with you in the second. No, I'm not looking

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Speaker 1: over your shoulder at the TV. But did I say

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Speaker 1: I wanted to take you to dinner at a sports bar?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That doesn't that doesn't make sense. Oh

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Speaker 1: they do have a TV here. Good. Um. Well, if

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Speaker 1: you're a sad NASCAR fan over this. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of sad uh soccer fans in the United States

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Speaker 1: today and last night, because once again the national effort

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Speaker 1: on the men's side, notably of the world of soccer

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Speaker 1: in the United States came up a little bit short,

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Speaker 1: not going to be in the Olympics, Lynchy and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, I feel like for those who

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Speaker 1: aren't really steeped in this, this was one of those

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Speaker 1: kind of things you look at the headline you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not very good. Yeah, well this is the third

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Speaker 1: straight Olympics they failed to qualify, lost to Honduras yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Sixteen teams qualified for the Olympics. So it's really hard

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Speaker 1: to swallow that the United States cannot be one of

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Speaker 1: the sixteen best teams in the planet and not go

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Speaker 1: to Tokyo. This is a major, major disappointment. They didn't

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Speaker 1: go to the World Cup last time. All the apologists

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Speaker 1: is saying, well, we've we've we've got a good foundation

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Speaker 1: in a good base. We're gonna come back and qualify

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Speaker 1: for the World Cup. And two, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we we're losing to teams that that that are

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Speaker 1: smaller than some of our states in this country geographically

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Speaker 1: and population wise, and that's just I just don't get it. This, This,

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Speaker 1: this whole men's soccer program needs a major, major overhaul.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they should have the women come in and run

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, because they get it figured out. And

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Speaker 1: they know how to do it. Yeah, well and certainly

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Speaker 1: you know, and there are to be clear, they're they're

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Speaker 1: different rules, are there are different decisions that have been

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Speaker 1: made in terms of on the men's side, Yeah, who

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Speaker 1: can who can play the type of team that has

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Speaker 1: fielded for the Olympics. So for the women, it's basically

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Speaker 1: the same folks. The same women who play both in

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Speaker 1: the World Cup play in the Olympics. So you've got

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Speaker 1: you know, the Megan Rappinos and whatnot of the world

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Speaker 1: playing on those same teams. This men's team that would

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Speaker 1: have gone to the Olympics, the Olympic hopefuls, is not

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Speaker 1: the same US men's national team that uh I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say played in the World Cup, that failed to

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Speaker 1: play in the last World Cup. So um, that's consistent.

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Speaker 1: They're they're still not making it to the big show

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Speaker 1: in their respective and their respective categories. So it is

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Speaker 1: a problem though, and it is it is holding I

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Speaker 1: think this is not a controversial thing to say, Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: It is holding back the game from an economic and

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Speaker 1: a business perspective in the United States because there is

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Speaker 1: not that level of excitement and it only reinforces this

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Speaker 1: idea that if you really want to play at the

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Speaker 1: top level of football as they call it, everywhere else

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Speaker 1: in the world, but he or you, you need to

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Speaker 1: be in Europe or elsewhere, primarily Europe. You need to

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Speaker 1: be in the e p L, the English Premier League,

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Speaker 1: and even the MLS, the Major League Soccer here in

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Speaker 1: the United States has struggled because it just doesn't get

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Speaker 1: the best players in the world. So it's not the

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Speaker 1: best product. And guess what. We know this from a

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Speaker 1: business perspective. The best product is what ultimately draws the

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Speaker 1: most fans, and so you have this is another thing

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Speaker 1: that I'm I'm diving into right now. You have a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who live in a city in the

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Speaker 1: United States who are much more devoted to Chelsea or

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Speaker 1: Man United or Arsenal or Liverpool are now Wrexham because

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Speaker 1: it's owned by Ryan Reynolds and Rob mcahanny. Um. Then

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Speaker 1: they are their local MLS club because they are local

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Speaker 1: MLS clubs. Like, yeah, it's fine, they play soccer, but

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Speaker 1: they're not very good. And that's a big deal. If

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Speaker 1: you don't have the best product, you can't draw in

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Speaker 1: the best sponsors, and that that's a major problem. And

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Speaker 1: so I don't know how to solve it, and Lyncha,

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Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head. Maybe should have

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Speaker 1: the women figure this out because they've got it going on.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's too bad because and if the

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Speaker 1: US was in the Olympic Soccer tournament, there would be

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Speaker 1: a big draw. You know, it's too bad. Well, and

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Speaker 1: you know we've we've had and you can go back

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Speaker 1: into the archives of this podcast and listen to you know,

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Speaker 1: lawyers on each side of the debate around equal pay

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Speaker 1: and equal compensation between the US men's national team in

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Speaker 1: the US women's national team that is ongoing. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: core battles, we'll see more of that play out this year.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this is a real issue that certainly

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Speaker 1: needs to be solved. And it's not like there's a

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Speaker 1: lack of interest on the youth level in terms of soccer.

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Speaker 1: We you know, all had kids played soccer, I know,

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Speaker 1: and we had Ben Sherwood from Mojo on this podcast

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago talking about you know, that pipeline

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Speaker 1: as it were, of girls and boys who are playing soccer.

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Speaker 1: So it's not a lack of interesting. This isn't a

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Speaker 1: baseball issue. This is a this is an issue of

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Speaker 1: like they just can't convert at that higher level, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it's an issue. It's definitely an issue. This is the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr and you

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Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports. And

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Speaker 1: I'm Mike Lynch. You can follow me at Lynch e

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Speaker 1: w CBB. And I'm Jason Kelly at Jason Kelly News.

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Speaker 1: We're here each and every Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday exploring

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Speaker 1: the world of money and sports. Join us again towards

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Speaker 1: the end of the week. It is getting closer and

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Speaker 1: closer to opening Day. We're gonna talk with Sam Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: President of your and by your I mean Lynch. He's

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Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox. By the way, if you guys want

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Speaker 1: to treat go on Twitter and look at Lynchy when

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Speaker 1: he was starting at eight two at w CVBT. Looks

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Speaker 1: like he's on bay Watch. You're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports of Bloomberg Radio, aroum a World and online

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast.