WEBVTT - Political History with Doris Kearns Goodwin 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:10.000 N bergen wrong berg and talking and saying anything wrong back, 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:24.919 and he's not playing any game today. Not fine today? 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.320 Does that sound right today? That reading of today? Yeah, 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.839 it's exactly how it's pronounce Today. We are interviewing a 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.960 woman who is very important. She's a very very smart woman. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:46.280 She's um this episode is on. H Okay, I'm gonna 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:48.720 own up. I forgot who we're interviewing today? Are you? 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.960 I have a feeling it's not Ruth Bader Ginsburg. You 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.760 tried her, right, Caroline? Did you try her? We triedberg 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.040 but her business manager said, um, this is weird. She 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.320 said you two had a falling out. I was, I 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.640 was confused. She said you two were no longer on 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.360 speaking terms. You heard that right? For two whole years. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.279 If you if you came to the Saddle Creek Diner 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.759 on a Monday morning, you'd see me and baby Ruth 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.000 in a corner eating breakfast and talking shop. You're talking shop. 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.720 You wouldn't understand it, Carolina, Okay, it's lost stuff, all right? 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.959 Did you understand it? Not really? But I let her talk, 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.600 and boy can she talk. She can talk you through 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.000 the Saddle Creek's Lumberjack Special for sausage links and to 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.319 pancake piles. Later, she's still going on and I'm sorry 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.319 to ask you, but why did you guys stop hanging out? Um, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.240 I would say scheduling conflicts? Well, I mean after we 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.280 had a huge fight, she said that she couldn't see 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.440 me anymore. So that was our scheduling conflict. Oh, got it? 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.520 So yeah, if I saw today, I feel like bygones 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.080 would be bygones. So exactly how did you guys leave it? It? 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.240 For word? Well, if memory serves, she said something like, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.440 if you start a food fight in this diner, I 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.720 will never speak to you again. And you started a 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.760 food fight in the diner. Yes, we did, or I did? 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.960 Who can remember the specifics anymore. It's it's hard to 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.400 have a food fight when you're the only one throwing food. 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.000 You know, it feels like you're the apple in that situation. 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.560 But to get people to join, you have to just 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.440 throw more food. I mean, omelets, jellos, a cup full 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.080 of eyes. I mean, nothing was getting this crowd going. 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.000 How old do you think most of how old were 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:38.920 the most of the people in the diner? Oh, I 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.360 mean everyone was in there early to late seventies except 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.600 for one grand kid. Yeah, so that's probably not the 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.359 best participants for a food fight, you know what I mean. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.680 Ruth knows that I'm here if she every wants to 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:54.840 rekindle our friendship. I'm available for breakfast literally every morning. Well, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.519 actually we record the podcast in the morning. Any morning works. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.800 There is literally nothing going on in my life right 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:08.680 now that I would prioritize over breakfast. Huh. I just 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.880 want to let that lie. Yeah, I'm out there. This 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.920 is really important to me, and I put a lot 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.800 of effort into it. Now, after a quick commercial break, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.359 we'll have Ariana Grande in the studio, I mean her 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.160 music in the studio. We'll have music reviews with Ariana 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.320 Grande in the building, her music, not her physical or 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:33.480 spiritual being. Okay, so stay tuned next to meet Oriana 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:46.080 Grande and we're back time for music reviews. This is 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.760 our music written segment. Yes that Braun introduced to me 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.920 minutes ago, that I crafted myself. Ariana Grande is just 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.040 drop in deuces left and right. I'm sorry, I don't 0:03:58.040 --> 0:03:59.880 know if you meant what is? What is? What are 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.240 trying to say? I mean dropping hit hit after hit. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:08.000 I mean, thank you next, thank you Next. I'm familiar 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.680 with the song. It's as if she's inside my brain 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.880 when I'm eating munchkin donuts from Duncan's thank you next, 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.479 thank you next. I say that after I eat a munchkin, like, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.640 thank you to that munchkin, yes, and then next onto 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.160 the next munchkin. I identify with Ariana. How so, how 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.760 do you? The world wants a piece of us? I 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.040 can't leave my house without someone, you know, hounding me 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.400 about my love life. So it's very simple. You can't 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.520 leave the house, yes, Like, do you think you have 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.600 paparazzi following you? Yeah? I do. Well, just one person, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.320 this crazy guy who lives on my street. He's harmless. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.800 You just asked me questions all the time. Sometimes he 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.159 takes in my car if I leave it unlocked. I'm sorry. Well, 0:04:54.279 --> 0:05:00.920 let's take a listen to thank you next you day, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:12.760 dank you everyone, dank you for all you, thank you, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:22.280 thank you everyone, thank you for all you. Okay, that 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.320 was not the song we were talking about, and you 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.520 crafted this music segment. You know what, I'm not going 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.840 to disagree with you, all right. I've been listening to 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.119 that song thinking it was Ariana Grandes thank you next, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.640 but you love it? I well, I love Ariana Grundie 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.200 number one. I love thank You next, even though I'm 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.440 not familiar with it, and I love the song we 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:50.560 just played, so I love all three. This music segment 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:55.720 is a disaster. I knew you were going to say that, 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.240 but I love your participation for the first time. Thank 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.520 you in our review segments. Well, I think that's the 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.800 end of our music review. But up next we have 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.120 a woman who, like Arianna, takes no bologna. Be right back, 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:16.640 listeners and thank you next, Thank you next, I mean, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.880 welcome back to the Ron Burgundy Podcast. We are joined 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:37.880 today by the highly esteemed Doris Kerns Goodwin. She is 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.920 a Pulitzer Prize winner and one of the country's top 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:45.200 scholars on American presidents and h Honestly, we we only 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.320 got her for an interview because we lied and said 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:54.080 this was npr um Well, so anyway, anyway, um, Doris 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.640 Kerns Goodwin, thank you for joining us. Well, Ron, my 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.800 old friends, it's hard for me to believe that it's 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.840 now six years since you told the world in your 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.440 best selling book how I had helped you with the 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.800 chapter on history. Remember, and you said while we were 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.280 presumably in the middle of having an affair, and so 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.440 all of a sudden, then I've been stopped on the 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.320 street in an airport by thousands of your fans were 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.080 thrilled to hear what you said, which is that you 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.600 claimed that my enthusiasm for the work was only outpaced 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.720 by my enthusiasm for love making, which you could barely equal. 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.320 So here we are, at last, here we are finally 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.640 talking about it. I'm glad, I mean we for those 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.440 of you listening that it's It's obviously no secret we 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:41.400 had a torrid love affair, um, which you know. I 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.160 don't know how you feel about it, um, but those 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.480 were some of the best seven months of my life. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.160 And uh, and I'm sorry for the way it ended. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.560 I really am end well. He never said, he just 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.640 said that, you know, if if I were willing to 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.640 come back, I could come back any time. So it's 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.920 still a mystery, I suppose to both of us. Those 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.920 things you can never figure out. And Doris, now that 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:08.360 we have this moment, I was actually going to ask 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:13.440 you to marry me. Oh Gods of five women, and 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.720 you are the top of my list. Well, I'm proud 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.360 to know that, and that will make it a little 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.880 easier to bounce back perhaps anyway. Gosh, my family still 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.120 loves you. My family still asks about you all the time. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:30.040 They're like, how did you let Doris get away? Well? 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.800 Here I am, so this is the beginning again. Do 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:34.600 you remember when you do? Remember when you cut up 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.920 all my ties when we broke up? You know the 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.240 other thing I remember? Don't remember that, but some things 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.120 I mun't doing. Anger that I put out of my 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.559 mind because I'm such a nice person in my mind. Yes, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.880 But the other comment that you had was that my 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.280 my teeth were as sharp as my intellect. So that's 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.280 a pretty scary thought. Whatever that, Well you did you 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.000 did have a tiger lady tattooed on your right shoulder, 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.680 if I recall. I don't know if you had removed 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.240 or not. No, clearly. I mean now, when I got 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.600 married and had my children, you know that. You know 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.800 I had to be an umber presidential historian for God's sake. 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.240 I can't have those things on my shoulders. There's no question. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.240 Because you might tell I, well, I've already you just have. Yeah, 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.760 I already had. If it's already out there um doors. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.559 I have to ask, so you you've won a Pulitzer. 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:26.840 What a what a crazy thing? What's what's that cash? Like? Well, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:29.920 it's not what you may imagine because I wanted in 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.319 and I think then it was three thousand dollars, So 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:39.760 that's not. Well, it certainly won't buy something big. But 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.520 you know what it does get most importantly, it gets 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.600 you your first line in your obituary. So that's probably 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:50.240 pretty priceless. I'll take that over thirty thousand, fifty thousand, 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.560 maybe a lot more, even pretty incredible. I think a 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.760 lot of people have the impression that that's that's big 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.239 cash money, Like you go out and you buy a Lamborghini, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:05.000 an exotic bird or something. I don't think that with 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.920 your first big check. Oh if I if I ever yes, 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.720 Like you know, if I if I signed a big 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.520 contract like one of those NBA players, I would I'd 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.920 buy an exotic bird. What about your doing? You wouldn't 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.240 pay that off? Well, I wouldn't pay that no, No, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.400 Well now you know him, right, Carolina. So but you 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.719 know the weird thing is that the very year I 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.800 won the Pulitzer, speaking of exotic birds, I grew up 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.840 in Rockfell Center, Long Island, and there was a string 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:37.320 of robberies of exotic birds in various pet stores, including 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.800 one in Rockville Center that year where a kacka doo 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:46.120 or some crazy exotic bird was worth was stolen. So 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.679 maybe I was involved in that too somehow. What if 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.320 that's worth all your pulletz er money? Right, I know, 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.800 I know, so it's just a crazy coincidence. But no, 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.840 I don't think i'd get an exotic bird or Lamborghini. Okay, well, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.680 but we're different. We always were different. We always were 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:09.480 Yang and Yang, yang and yang. Um. Now, so you, 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.679 of course you won the Pulitzer for a book on 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.120 on FDR and eleanor Roosevelt during World War Two. What 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.160 if you can recall in European what's the cutest thing 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.360 they ever did for each other as a couple. Well, 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.360 I'm not sure cute would be the word, but what 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.120 I think is the best thing they did for each 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.360 other was she was Fdr, like to say, a welcome 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.800 thorn in his side. She was always willing to question 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.000 our relationship exactly. She was always willing to argue with him, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.040 and as a result, she made him a better person. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.480 I mean, for example, during World War Two, she sent 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.360 so many memos to General Marshall in the War Department 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.080 about discrimination in the army that he had to assign 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.280 a separate general whose only task was to deal with 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.720 Eleanor Roosevelt's memos. And she had. She had, Oh you'll 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.480 love this. She had weekly press conferences where the only 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.679 rule was that female reporters could come to her press conferences. 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.520 So all over the country's stuffy publishers had to hire 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.720 their first female reporter. An entire generation got their start 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.000 because of Eleanor Roosevelt. So um, that relationship was huge. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.320 What were the numbers in that female press pool at 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.520 that time? Would you say? That is a question. I 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.320 don't know, but I would bet. I would bet. We're 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.760 talking twenty thirty. Maybe I don't know. You know, I 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:25.600 will come back and tell you this. See, this is 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.320 why you're so challenging. You asked me questions I don't 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.959 know the answer to. I might have known it, and 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.120 I don't think I've ever known it. Okay, Well, then, 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.720 Run's had a contentious history with female reporters, so it's 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.680 very progressive. You've grown a lot. I've grown a lot. 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.840 I've learned that that many of the female reporters are 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.920 finest reporters. That's what I've learned. Yes, you're a quick 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:54.520 study years quick thirty years exactly. No, but it's pretty exciting. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.080 I meet people sometimes and they'll say their mother or 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.680 their grandmother, that was their first job and they became 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.840 a it's all because Eleanor. Yeah, she was a pain 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.160 in the neck. You know. She would bring people to 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.640 his dinner party sometimes, so she wanted him to talk 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.520 to who are maybe more liberal or doing more radical 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.520 things than he wanted, and she plunked them down beside him. 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.480 You know, at times he was thinking, oh, no, I 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.040 just want to relax, because she never really relaxed. He 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.840 loved his cocktails at night and she cocktails. Didn't He 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.480 have a set cocktail hour at like five pm. Even 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.080 even even during the war, it was this one his 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.679 hour to unplug. Is that correct? Not only you're absolutely right, 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:38.319 He's all right. Ron needs that just a quick recap 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.920 of feminist history. He told me the other day that 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.360 he hopes one day I win the right to vote. 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.240 And you said, I said, you probably picked them for 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.400 years ahead of the cur He knows about he knows 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.720 about the cocktail Hour. I mean, the great thing was 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.480 that FDRs cocktail Hour. There was a rule that you 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.440 could not talk about the war. You could gossip, you 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.079 could talk about politics, and it was so important to 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.720 him to have It was such a heavy, terrible time. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.199 They had to they had to decompress at some level. Absolutely, 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.360 And because he wanted his favorite regulars to be at 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.640 the cocktail party, he actually wanted them to live in 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.959 the White House to be ready for the cocktail Hour. 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.920 So the second floor of the White House becomes the 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.840 most exclusive residential hotel you can possibly imagine. All the 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.040 cocktail guys are living there, living there during World War two. 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.160 So it was pretty cool. I got to go back 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.280 and stay in the room where Winston Churchill had lived 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.320 during World War Two. When Hillary Clinton was there, she 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.600 heard me talking about how I wished I knew where 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.560 everyone had lived during World War Two. So she invited 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.920 my husband and me to a sleepover in the White 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.200 House and I figured out that yes, Chelsea Clinton was 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.440 sleeping where Harry Hopkins is Foreign Policy Adviser FDRs was. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.840 The FDRs people were not his people. FDR was sleeping 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.480 in the room that Clinton's latest lept in and we 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.520 were in Winston Churchill's bedroom, so I was sure he 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.920 was in the corner drinking his brandy and smoking his cigar. 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.160 Churchill enjoyed a stiff drink. I'm sure more than one. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.400 He was great fdr his drink of choice. I'm gonna 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.960 guess slow gin fizz. Well, he had his own sort 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.280 of weird concoction of a martini that he would make. 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.040 He was a mixologist. He had a special mixture, and 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.720 he was the lame hipsters who called themselves. He was 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.600 always a visionary, always a bunch those guys in the 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.320 face and you might do it some days. Sorry, we're 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.480 getting off track, Okay, keep going, um, Doris, you're also 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.800 considered a sports journalist. Of you were you were a 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.760 Brooklyn Dodgers fan growing up. I heard why baseball? What's 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.960 interesting about it? Just the good looking guys. No, it's 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.240 not really just the hunks. I mean, they're not so hunky, 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.280 many of them. No, it's got much deeper roots. My 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.600 father loved baseball. I was the third girl in the family. 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:57.040 He taught me when I was I was He taught 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.520 me how to keep score so that he would come 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.960 home for work in Brooklyn during the day, and I 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.600 could record for him the history of that afternoon's Brooklyn 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.400 Dodger games. So when your father listens to you for 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.960 you know, play by play, inning by inning, and he 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.320 thinks and he makes you think he's telling you a fact, 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.120 I'm telling him a fabulous story. It makes you think 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.360 something's magic about history. It's where my love of history 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.720 came from. In fact, I'm convinced I learned how to 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.960 tell a story from those nightly sessions and my father 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.280 because at first I'd be so excited I would blurt 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.640 out the Dodgers wall and or the Dodgers lost, which 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.920 took much of the drama of this long telling away. 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:30.560 So I learned you had to tell a story from 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.760 beginning to middle to end. And then of course the 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.560 Dodgers abandoned us and went to I was just going 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.280 to say, when they left, were you able to to still, 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.240 you know, pull for them or did it? Did it just? Oh? No, no, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.280 it broke I mean well, I used to send letters 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.960 to Walter O'Malley, the owner. We used to we used 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.400 to have petitions against him when I was a little girl. 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.360 Then finally I went to Harvard, and I went to 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.120 Benway Park, and a park so reminiscent of Ebbittsfield. Became 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.360 an equally irrational Red Sox fan. And we've had season 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.320 tickets from more than thirty five years. So baseball's huge 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.280 part of my life. I wake up thinking about them 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.600 in the morning. When they lose. I don't even want 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.800 to read the newspapers. It's it's unhealthy, but it's a 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.760 happy unhealthiness. I went to I went to Finnway Park 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.000 one time. I bought it. I was so excited to 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.359 go there, and I sat behind a pole. The guy 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.160 sold me a ticket that was behind a pole. I mean, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.080 that's the problem when you go to an old stadium. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.439 But it's got charm right, And it does have charm. 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.120 And I really studied the layers of paint on that 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.240 and the rest you could. I bet you didn't you 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.360 engrave something on it? That ron was there. I don't 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.560 know how I'm going to say this, but I've carved 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:43.320 a little heart R B plus d kg. I this 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.480 is it now. Finally I'm going to have to go 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.000 woman right field. You got it? Yes, So Doris, let 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.680 me ask you are you? How are you feeling about 0:17:55.680 --> 0:18:00.760 the current takedown of democracy, good or bad plus and 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.280 minus definitely bad. I mean, I think it's a really 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.679 rough time for our country right now. But as an historian, 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.920 I feel like things are going great. No, maybe I'm 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.080 just living in a bubble. Well that it's a what 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.280 about you, Carolina? Do you think things are going great? Oh? No, 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.440 I think things are going terribly. Okay, you're with me that. 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.480 But the thing is what I can say that makes 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.960 us feel better, I hope, is that history provides a perspective. 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:28.600 Because people will sometimes come up to be in the 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.080 airport and say, are these the worst of times? And 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.760 I can honestly say, of course not. And talk about 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:35.880 what it was like for Abraham Lincoln when he first 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.760 went into office, and um, the country is about to 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.200 split into in fact, it's already splitting up, and six 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.480 thousand people are going to die in a civil war, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.080 Or what it was like for FDR when he comes 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:47.800 in and the depression is at its height and the 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.800 banks have collapsed and you can't even get your money 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.840 out of the banks. And yet somehow we came through 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.760 those times. And and the great thing that I think 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:59.040 gives us hope, right now about the difficulty of democracy 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.200 here is that what Lincoln said when he was called 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.640 a liberator, he said, don't call me that. And it's 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.480 after the Emancipation Proclamation he said, it was the anti 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.760 slavery people that did it all. It's always the citizen 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.440 movements that make things better. So it was the anti 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.320 slavery movement during the nineteenth century. It was the progressive 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.240 movement at the turn of the twentieth century that made 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.000 it possible for Teddy Roosevelt and FDR to do what 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.879 they did. Civil rights movement made it possible for LBJ, 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.719 women's movement, environmental movement, And now we need a movement 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.439 for political reform. And I think we saw in the 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.200 mid terms more people voted than for, more women came 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.920 into office than in a long time, more veterans. That's 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.800 really important. You know, in in the nineteen sixties and seventies, 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.480 three out of four Congressmen and senators were veterans. They've 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.639 been in World War Two and the Korean War. They 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.359 knew how to go across party lines. They knew too, 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.160 you know, somehow put a purpose beyond partisan or regional 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.920 or racial divisions. And now we've got to get back 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.560 to that. But I think there's there's an impulse in 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.240 the country. The citizens are more active in politics they've 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.359 been for a while. So that's my optimism about the country. 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.520 We're not as fragile as as people think we are 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.840 this democracy. Is it true that Babe ruth eight thirty 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.480 hot dogs in the dug out during a Yankee game? 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.040 Was that your next question? Now? I'm just going to 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.439 my next question because she just said a lot of 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:22.320 really inspiring, really amazing it was. Oh I didn't I 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:27.000 didn't hear it. I just wrote down my baby ruth question. Yeah. Yeah, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.119 he's skipping back from baseball. You know, that was the 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.840 question before, which is fine. I just popped in my head. 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.680 I'm like, I gotta you know what, I've always wonder 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:35.479 if that's just a myth. Did Babe ruthy get all 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.399 those hot dogs in the dugout? I think? You know, 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.919 I think the stories about some of these larger than 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.399 live figures, they usually have some reality. So whether it 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.320 was thirty or twenty five or twenty he was a 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.879 big eater that that we know, we can say that 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.480 as in a story. Just look at his body and 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:55.240 you'll know that it's so probably eight thirty hot dogs. Yes, 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:56.960 I would put that down and you tell the next 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.760 person you are a Harvard grad and you taught there. 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:09.000 Um for those listeners, that's Harvard University. Where is that located? Pittsburgh? Yeah, yeah, 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:10.959 you know, I know a little east of Pittsburgh. Let 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.160 me ask you this. Maybe you're not at liberty to say, 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:14.639 are you? Are you sick of all the know it 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.360 alls the running around that place. Well, you know what 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.920 I mean. I think to some extent, the whole idea 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.600 that people have that just because you went to Harvard 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:27.399 you're smarter than other people is nuts. I look at 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.119 lots of young people who just feel like, if I 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.400 don't go there and want to get there, my life 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.040 will be it's it's it's it's a school. It's a 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.560 good school. I remember when I was working for Lyndon 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:40.879 Johnson and I was helping him on his memoirs, and 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:42.639 I was living for a while at the ranch, and 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:44.280 he would I was twenty four years old, and he 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.960 would always call me Harvard. He'd say, Hey, Harvard, come 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.520 over here. I've got a question for you. But yeah, 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:52.880 it was fine, and he didn't really like the Harvards 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.280 think they wouldn't deal well with him, But he was 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.720 fine with me. But I'll never forget one time he 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.320 he wanted me to go in this car that had 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.080 near his lake, like l b J. And right before 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.000 we took off in the car, yeah like LBJ. Yes, 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:10.280 of course, so he the Secret Service day to him, 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.000 be careful. The brakes aren't so great. We didn't check them, 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:14.879 and we're going down a hill towards the lake, and 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:16.840 all of a sudden the car goes into the water. 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.479 And I wasn't afraid. Somehow, I just figured I'm here 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:22.440 with the President's gonna fine. And of course it was 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.680