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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give.

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Speaker 3: You, guys, the best independent coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: All right, Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. I think

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Speaker 1: it probably goes without saying that we have a pretty

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Speaker 1: big show today. We could probably just get right into it.

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Speaker 1: That's right, all right, So let's start with updated casualty

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Speaker 1: figures in the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: If we can put up this first element here, These

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Speaker 1: are minimum figures, and so if you're listening to the podcast,

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Speaker 1: you're not seeing these Israelis. We're up to a minimum

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Speaker 1: of one thousand, two hundred killed, two thousand, seven hundred wounded,

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Speaker 1: absolutely unprecedented casualty figures on the Israeli side. The bulk

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Speaker 1: of those civilians, a significant portion of those civilians that

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Speaker 1: we know, at least two hundred and sixty at the

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Speaker 1: music festival. The numbers so far minimum killed in Gaza

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Speaker 1: one thousand fifty as of this hour, fivey one hundred wounded.

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Speaker 1: But the assault on Gaza continues around the clock, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, the these numbers are going you continue

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Speaker 1: to climb emily. You were pointing out that there are

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Speaker 1: now reports that the last power station is running low hours,

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Speaker 1: and medical equipment has been you know, has been cut

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Speaker 1: off by sanctions and by a blockade for years, but

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Speaker 1: ingress and egress has been severely limited over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of days. So one can imagine that the healthcare

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Speaker 1: system has essentially ceased to function beyond you know, people

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Speaker 1: doing heroic measures as they can, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: as people enter into their own kind of health complications

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Speaker 1: that come from just living in living without electricity, food

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Speaker 1: and water, combined with round the clock bombings and with

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Speaker 1: nowhere to run.

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Speaker 3: Right, We're going to get into that the difficulty of

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Speaker 3: humanitarian assistance on behalf of NGOs and circumstances like this.

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Speaker 3: We're also just about to get into some highlights or

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Speaker 3: low lights from the White House yesterday. But before we

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Speaker 3: do it, that graphic that we just put up on

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Speaker 3: the screen and the numbers that Ryan just read. I

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Speaker 3: just am pausing in my own mind and thinking, this

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Speaker 3: is a matter of a couple of days. You can

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Speaker 3: go back and this conflict stretches, you know, decades into

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Speaker 3: the past. But if you look at the depths that

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Speaker 3: have happened just in the last couple of days, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's just a completely staggering figure. And then when you

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Speaker 3: look at we do have some footage obviously from the

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Speaker 3: warfare yesterday, when you look at the future of this

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Speaker 3: specific conflict, this is going to be urban warfare. In

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Speaker 3: a lot of cases, You're going to have bodies being

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Speaker 3: pulled out of the rubble for days just from what's

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Speaker 3: already happened, and and then that's going to go into

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Speaker 3: the future as well. It's there is no light at

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Speaker 3: the end of this tunnel.

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Speaker 1: And it feels very much like a for not to

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Speaker 1: kind of americanize it, but a nine to eleven feeling

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Speaker 1: around the lust for revenge and a kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of just unstoppable force that were witnessing, and certainly President

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Speaker 1: Biden last night made no effort at all to do

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Speaker 1: anything to slow it down. I think it probably only

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Speaker 1: ramped it up. Let's play a little bit from the

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Speaker 1: first presidential address since the Hamas assault on Israel. We

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Speaker 1: thirst team.

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Speaker 4: This brings to mind the worst, the worst grand pages

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Speaker 4: of vices. This is terrorist, but sadly, for the Jewish people,

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Speaker 4: it's not new. This attack is brought to the surface

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Speaker 4: painful memories and the scar is led by a millennia

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Speaker 4: of anti Semitism and genocide of the Jewish people. So

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Speaker 4: in this moment, we must be crystal clear. We stand

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Speaker 4: with Israel. We stand with Israel, and we will make

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Speaker 4: sure who has what it needs to take care of

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Speaker 4: its citizens, defend itself and respond to this attack. There's

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Speaker 4: no justification for terrorism, There's no excuse. MASS does not

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Speaker 4: stand for the Palestinian people's right to the dignity and

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Speaker 4: self determination. It's state of purposes of the annihilation of

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Speaker 4: the state of Israel and the murder of Jewish people.

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Speaker 4: They use Palestinian civilians as human shields. MASS offers nothing

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Speaker 4: but terror, bloodshed with no regard. Two pays the price.

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Speaker 4: The loss of innocent life is heartbreaking. Like every nation

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Speaker 4: in the world has the right to respond, indeed has

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Speaker 4: a duty to respond to these vicious attacks.

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Speaker 1: Now, what's so different about the remarks that he made

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Speaker 1: last night, and a lot of the remarks that you're

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Speaker 1: seeing come from Israeli defense officials and up to and

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Speaker 1: including net Yahoo is that in the past you would

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Speaker 1: always have both American officials and the Israelis say this

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Speaker 1: is a strictly targeted operation at hamas militant operations, and

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Speaker 1: we regret any civilian loss of life, and that they

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Speaker 1: are collateral damage that we attempted to avoid. We are

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Speaker 1: doing everything in our power to minimize or completely eliminate

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Speaker 1: civilian casualties. We won't succeed necessarily entirely, but that's what

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Speaker 1: we're trying to do. None of that language even none

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Speaker 1: of that pretense, and we used to think of it

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Speaker 1: as pretense, but we might find out that it wasn't

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Speaker 1: just pretense, that the language actually did have some connection

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Speaker 1: to minimizing civilian casualties. Now you would still have, in

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Speaker 1: say twenty twenty one, a couple thousand civilian casualties, but

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Speaker 1: a couple thousand compared to what we may be about

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Speaker 1: the witness might be orders of magnitude different. None of

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Speaker 1: the Israeli defense officials are talking about civilian casualties, are

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Speaker 1: even pretending like they're going to try to minimize casualties.

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Speaker 1: So they're talking about as much widespread damage as possible.

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Speaker 1: The closest Biden came there was saying, you know, civilian casualty.

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Speaker 1: You heard his quote, civilian whatever. He said, Civilian casualties

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Speaker 1: are unfortunate. Israel has a right to defend itself, just

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Speaker 1: kind of pushing right through it in a way. We're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're not even suggesting that they're going to try to

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Speaker 1: minimize it.

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Speaker 3: Here, I have a quote from the New York Times

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Speaker 3: this morning which says that Israel has given broad warnings

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Speaker 3: for people to leave certain neighborhoods or towns, but has

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Speaker 3: acknowledged they are not as extensive or specific as they

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Speaker 3: have been in the past, and many residents say they

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Speaker 3: have not received them. Gossens say, of course, they have

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Speaker 3: nowhere to go. Anyway, we are going to get into

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Speaker 3: some of what that actually looks like. We have some clips,

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Speaker 3: we have some video for now. Let's move on to

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Speaker 3: Jake Sullivan, who went into the White House briefing room

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Speaker 3: after Biden's address yesterday and talked about the specifics of

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Speaker 3: somewhere around twenty American hostages it seems like we still

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Speaker 3: don't have the exact number of American hostages that have

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Speaker 3: been taken, the exact number of American fatalities. This is

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Speaker 3: all fluid, but Sullivan actually addressed that very question just

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Speaker 3: yesterday in the briefing room.

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Speaker 5: We do not know about their condition, and we cannot

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Speaker 5: confirm a precise number of American citizens. We believe that

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Speaker 5: there are twenty or more Americans who at this point

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Speaker 5: are missing, but I want to underscore and stress that

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Speaker 5: does not mean necessarily that there are twenty or more

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Speaker 5: or American hostages. Just that is the number who are

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Speaker 5: currently unaccounted for. We will work hour by hour both

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Speaker 5: to determine whether we can account for any of those

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Speaker 5: Americans or to confirm exactly what the number of Americans

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Speaker 5: are being held hostage, and we will come back to

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Speaker 5: you with that information as soon as we have it.

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Speaker 5: As you know, very sadly and tragically, the number of

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Speaker 5: dead has risen with each passing hour. And that's true

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Speaker 5: of the total number. It's also true of Americans, which

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Speaker 5: has gone up just today from an earlier report this

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Speaker 5: morning of twelve than thirteen, now fourteen.

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Speaker 3: In the Free Press this morning. That's very wise's publication,

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Speaker 3: very pro Israel. They had a story just this morning

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Speaker 3: talking about how that number, wherever it ends up landing,

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Speaker 3: puts US in a situation potentially not unlike the Iranian

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Speaker 3: hostage crisis of nineteen seventy nine, which had enormous geopolitical ramifications.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it still has enormous geopolitical ripples all the

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Speaker 3: way up to twenty twenty three. So that's just we're

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Speaker 3: talking about this and the kind of broad context of

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Speaker 3: these fatality numbers, as we should be. And Ryan, I

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Speaker 3: looked up the number since two thousand and eight according

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Speaker 3: to the United Nation, the United Nations, sixty four hundred

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Speaker 3: Palestinian fatalities over fifteen years, so two thousand between Israel

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Speaker 3: and Palestine just in the last day. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is evolving rapidly. Obviously just an incredible, incredible toll. But

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Speaker 3: the point about the hostages specifically that puts America in

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Speaker 3: a very very particular conversation about military force aid and

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Speaker 3: everything that has to do with potentially extracting hostages.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I think important to notice there is that

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Speaker 1: he said at least twenty like the number could be

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Speaker 1: significantly higher than that, like quite significantly higher the number

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Speaker 1: of people would dual citizenship. There is high know, if

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Speaker 1: you have a case of hundreds of hostages, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a good chance that you've got dozens and dozens

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Speaker 1: and dozens at least of Americans in there. And it

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Speaker 1: does then put into context the question of what kind

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Speaker 1: of all out assault, because not only are you talking

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Speaker 1: about the two point one million Palestinians and Gozla, but

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Speaker 1: now you're talking about, you know, risking the life of

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Speaker 1: the Israelian American hostages as well. There was a really

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Speaker 1: interesting and you might have actually sent this in interview

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Speaker 1: that Jake Tapper did yesterday with a Palastinian American woman

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Speaker 1: who was stuck in Gaza. Did you see this, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so he finishes the interview by saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're an American, you should be able to get out.

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Speaker 1: It is unfair, is wrong that the embassy has not

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Speaker 1: been able to find a way out, because she was

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Speaker 1: saying that she and her family were driving all over

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Speaker 1: Gaza trying to find someplace that was safe, so go

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Speaker 1: to the beach, but then they bombed the beach. They say,

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Speaker 1: go to the north. They bombed the north. You know,

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Speaker 1: go down to the south and they bombed the south.

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Speaker 1: Was talking to a source of mind from a previous

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Speaker 1: story whose family is in a town below Gaza, south

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Speaker 1: of Gaza City. That town got bombed. Hamas is absolutely

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Speaker 1: nowhere near this town and so there isn't there isn't

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Speaker 1: anywhere to go. And Jake Tapper finishes the interview by saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: the White House has my number, Like, let's you know

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Speaker 1: how they can call me. I'll help you get out.

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Speaker 1: If he can do that two point one million times,

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Speaker 1: then all the civilians can be protected. If not, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about you know, maybe dozens of Americans, perhaps

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Speaker 1: hundreds of Israelis and millions of Palestinians with absolutely nowhere

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Speaker 1: to go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And one preliminary assessment that The New York Times

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Speaker 3: has written of Israeli hostages one hundred and fifty Israeli

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Speaker 3: hostages right now. That is staggering number. And that gets

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Speaker 3: to this next clip.

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Speaker 1: The most they've had in fifteen years is I think five, right.

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Speaker 3: Hamas right right, And so yeah, and that's go of

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Speaker 3: those things.

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Speaker 1: We're dead again.

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Speaker 3: According to the UN we mentioned the Palestinian fatalities over

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Speaker 3: the last fifteen years. Three hundred is early fat fatalities

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Speaker 3: over the last fifteen years as well. The next clip

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Speaker 3: is Jake Sullivan getting pressed, rightfully pressed on the intelligence situation,

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Speaker 3: and that will obviously come into play when recovering hostages

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Speaker 3: is at stake. So let's roll this.

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Speaker 6: How did Israel miss this attack coming?

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Speaker 5: That's a question for you to ask the Israeli government. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: the Israeli government has placed a high premium on its

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Speaker 5: intelligence capacity as it relates to Hamas, as it relates

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Speaker 5: to the West Bank, as it relates to Hisbola. And

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Speaker 5: why it is that they did not have warning from

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Speaker 5: this is not a question that I can answer from

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Speaker 5: this proto US intelligence.

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Speaker 7: Was there anything in what crosses your desk that would

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Speaker 7: suggest this was coming?

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Speaker 5: We did not see anything that suggested an attack of

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Speaker 5: this type was going to unfold any more than the

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Speaker 5: Israelis did, so.

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Speaker 3: Of course, the Israeli should be furious with their government

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Speaker 3: this level of failure. This is I mean, we look

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Speaker 3: back on nine to eleven as an intelligence failure and

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Speaker 3: have immense anger and upset over all of the signs

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Speaker 3: that were missed in the months and the days ahead

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Speaker 3: of the attacks. This is I mean, there's just no

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Speaker 3: question at this point that this is absolutely an intelligence failure.

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Speaker 3: There are all kinds of different reports. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is from the Associated Press. They say they quote one expert.

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Speaker 3: This is a really interesting point. He says, quote they've

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Speaker 3: gone back to the Stone Age, speaking of Hamas, saying

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Speaker 3: that militants weren't using phones or computers and were conducting

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Speaker 3: their sensitive business in rooms especially guarded from technological espionage

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Speaker 3: or going totally underground. He said, this is an Egyptian

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Speaker 3: intelligence officials said Egypt has spoken repeatedly with Israeli is

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Speaker 3: about quote something big. Without elaborating, he said Israeli officials

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Speaker 3: were focused on the West Bank and played down the

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Speaker 3: threat from Gaza Netnahu's government. The AP continues as made

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Speaker 3: up of supporters of Jewish West Bank settlers who have

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Speaker 3: demanded a security crackdown in the face of a rising

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Speaker 3: tide of violence there over the last eighteen months. Quote.

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Speaker 3: We have warned them an explosion of the situation is

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Speaker 3: coming and very soon, and it would be big. But

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Speaker 3: the underestimated such warnings.

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Speaker 1: And it makes you wonder when Biden is saying in

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Speaker 1: his address last night, we stand with Israel which Israel, Like,

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Speaker 1: what does he mean by we stand with Israel? Does

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Speaker 1: he mean the vast swath of the Israeli public that

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Speaker 1: is livid at the net Nyahouo government and is calling

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Speaker 1: for his resignation rather than calling for a kind of

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Speaker 1: a unity government because of everything that he did that

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Speaker 1: kind of led to this. The conversation in Israel has

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Speaker 1: been so shockingly nuanced compared to the conversation here in

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Speaker 1: the United States.

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Speaker 3: And that's often true.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And so later in the show, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about this editorial, but git that ha retz Led,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the major newspapers in Israel, which

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Speaker 1: represent It's a view that has been put forward by

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Speaker 1: a lot of different commentators across Israel that netnah who

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Speaker 1: holds a serious, significant amount of blame for what happened,

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Speaker 1: And I think people and Israel don't have to do

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Speaker 1: the throat clearing of well, of course Hamas has responsibility

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Speaker 1: for the barbarosy, right that that's obvious right here in

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Speaker 1: the United States. We just say that and kind of

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Speaker 1: that's the end of it. But basically, you know, Netnyahoo

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Speaker 1: moved an enormous number of troops out of the South

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Speaker 1: and up to the West Bank, because his far right

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Speaker 1: cabinet was insisting on these pagrams and this massive crackdown

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Speaker 1: in the West Bank with the explicit goal of ultimate annexation.

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Speaker 1: And so Haretz was, you know, lots and are a

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Speaker 1: lot of Israelis were opposed to that policy. And so

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Speaker 1: to watch them move all the troops out of Gaza

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Speaker 1: and out of the southern region up to the West

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Speaker 1: Bank and then leave that completely exposed, while also having

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Speaker 1: all of far far right wing ministers antagonizing Palestinians on

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Speaker 1: a daily basis, You're like, look, this was predicted, predictable,

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Speaker 1: and still you and you drove it and you didn't

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Speaker 1: stop it.

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Speaker 3: That's the context here. This is from the Christian Science Monitor,

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Speaker 3: which reported since the UN started counting deaths in twenty

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Speaker 3: and six, twenty twenty three has been the deadliest year

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Speaker 3: for Palestinians. Two hundred have died this year at the

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Speaker 3: hands of Israeli soldiers or settlers in the occupied West Bank.

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Speaker 3: And so that's the context. I say, that's important context

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Speaker 3: on this question of intelligence and on this question of

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Speaker 3: the Israeli military, because obviously this Egyptian official who's talking

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Speaker 3: to the Associated Press has some sort of legs to

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Speaker 3: stand on when making the argument that there's a really

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Speaker 3: serious question of whether or not Israel was underestimating and

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Speaker 3: was fooled by people who were intentionally going quote back

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Speaker 3: to the Stone Age. They had set up replicas of

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Speaker 3: cities in Gaza, they were training in front of There's

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Speaker 3: no way that Israel missed that they were training out

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Speaker 3: in the open air. So it has to be an

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Speaker 3: underestimation and that should have Israeli's reeling, and it does.

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Speaker 3: I just want to use this quote from Glenn Greenwald

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Speaker 3: on System Update last night. He said, there's far more

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Speaker 3: criticism of the Israeli government, far more debate over Israel's

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Speaker 3: actions in Israel than there is here in the United States.

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Speaker 3: One needs only read inn Israeli newspaper, listen to an

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Speaker 3: Israeli news broadcast to see how much more vibrant the

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Speaker 3: debates are about their own country than they are in

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Speaker 3: the United States. And this is a really good segue

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Speaker 3: Ryan into talking about how some folks Lindsay Graham's and

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Speaker 3: Lindsay Graham from South Carolina Republican from South Carolina, are

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Speaker 3: starting to frame the conflict. We have a clip from

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Speaker 3: him on Sean Hannity's show on Fox News just last night.

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Speaker 8: For every Israeli or American hostage executed by Hamas, we

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Speaker 8: should take down an Iranian or refinery. All the way

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Speaker 8: you're going to keep this war from escalating is to

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Speaker 8: hold around accountable. How much more death and destruction do

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Speaker 8: we have to take from the Iranian regime? I am

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Speaker 8: confident this was planned and funded by the Iranians. Hamas

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Speaker 8: is a bunch of animals who deserve to be treated

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Speaker 8: like animals. So if I was Israel, I would go

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Speaker 8: in on the ground there is no.

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Speaker 1: Truce to be had here.

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Speaker 8: I would dismantle Hamas. This is the best opportunity Israel

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Speaker 8: has to destroy Hamas. Take it to the Iranians. If

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Speaker 8: you harm one American in Syria by using your Iranian

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Speaker 8: militia against us in Syria, if you escalate the war

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Speaker 8: by urging Hezblah to attack Israel in the North, if

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Speaker 8: Hamas kills one American in Israeli hostage, We're going to

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Speaker 8: blow up your oil refineries and put you out of business.

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Speaker 8: It is now time to take the war to the

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Speaker 8: Ietolas backyard.

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Speaker 1: Lessons on de escalation from Lindsay Graham like he literally says,

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Speaker 1: this is how we're going to de escalate the situation

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Speaker 1: by taking the war to Irun. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to say that that would practically be a moderate

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Speaker 1: view sitting around the Netyahuo's cabinet right now, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we have to as we think about how this

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Speaker 1: is going to unfold. There would be nothing Nobody would

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Speaker 1: bat an eye if he said this in a war

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Speaker 1: cabinet right now.

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Speaker 3: I think no, not at all, right, And again, I

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Speaker 3: mean the sort of passions of people who are on

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Speaker 3: the ground in Israel, who are Israeli and who are

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Speaker 3: are missing friends and family, loved ones, have seen communities

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Speaker 3: cas is just completely ransacked. This often happens in the

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Speaker 3: nine to eleven comparison is one that's been you know,

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Speaker 3: thrown around a lot, and I think rightfully so when

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Speaker 3: you look at the numbers at the same time, there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of lessons. The Intercept had a story

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Speaker 3: on this actually just today. I think about how you

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Speaker 3: react when you know sort of those tensions and those

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Speaker 3: passions are informing the way that you're seeing a situation.

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Speaker 3: It can you know, not always that that is not

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Speaker 3: always the uh, the correct path forward when you have

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Speaker 3: benefit of hindsight, and that's difficult when you see what

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Speaker 3: you've seen in the last couple of days. Of course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you remember, as I think we all do,

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Speaker 1: Barbara Lee was the one person that stood up at

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Speaker 1: the time and three days after nine to eleven went

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Speaker 1: to the floor of the House and gave oppression wise

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Speaker 1: speech that at the time she was pilloried for from

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Speaker 1: left to right, unpatriotic, unpatriotic on American and you know,

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Speaker 1: Oakland needs to be cast off into the ocean like

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Speaker 1: and today, or I should say last week, everyone understood,

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Speaker 1: almost universally left to right, that she had been courageous

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Speaker 1: and she had been right, that it was good that

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Speaker 1: she had taken that stand. And so I think people

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Speaker 1: should remember that because you know, there will be a

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Speaker 1: twenty years from now and we will be looking back

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Speaker 1: at what happened. And if Israel does long mask a

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Speaker 1: mass casualty event that makes the last couple of days

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Speaker 1: look look like a skirmish, and it spirals out into

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Speaker 1: a multi decade regional conflict, and I think there's going

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of regret and a lot and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people say, I wish somebody had stood

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Speaker 1: up at the time and said, hold on, let's let's

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Speaker 1: let's think about this here and now. The other nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven parallel is that we ended up going to

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Speaker 1: we're not just against Afghanistans, but then also against Iraq

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Speaker 1: and against Iraq on faulty intelligence, some of it related

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Speaker 1: to Iran. Actually that Saddam did a nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: Iran did nine to eleven. And so here is Jake

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Speaker 1: Sullivan getting asked about the latest what seems to be

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Speaker 1: faulty intelligence about some type of direct link between Iran

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Speaker 1: and this operation.

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Speaker 6: What can you say.

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Speaker 5: About Iran's role in Moss attack is that one of

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Speaker 5: the actors who were worried about widening the war. Look,

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Speaker 5: we've said since the beginning that Iran is complicit in

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Speaker 5: this attack in a broad sense because they have provided

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Speaker 5: the lion's share of the funding for the military wing

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Speaker 5: of AMAS. They have provided training, they have provided capabilities,

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Speaker 5: they have provided support, and they have had engagement and

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Speaker 5: contact with Hamas over years and years, and all of

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Speaker 5: that has played a role in contributing to what we

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Speaker 5: have seen now as to the question of whether Iran

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Speaker 5: knew about this attack in advance or help plan or

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Speaker 5: direct this attack. We do not, as of the moment

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Speaker 5: I'm standing here at the podium, have confirmation of that.

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Speaker 1: I think that's an important way to understand this, that

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Speaker 1: there is complicity. And the left would understand this in

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Speaker 1: the sense that let's say the IDF carries out a

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Speaker 1: raid in the West Bank and then fifteen civilians are killed.

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Speaker 1: The Left would, i think accurately say that the US

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Speaker 1: funded that operation, right, the US trained the IDEF forces

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Speaker 1: that went in there, that there's eight decades long relationship

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Speaker 1: here that includes political, strategic and financial support, right, But

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Speaker 1: that the United States did not plan that particular operation. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is an important distinction. That's a

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Speaker 1: great part of a operation of this scale.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I think that is a really good parallel

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Speaker 3: because yeah, that and you know, Jake Sealvin then gets

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Speaker 3: pushed again yesterday by Jackie Heinrich of Fox News, specifically

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Speaker 3: on this question of money, which has been at the

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Speaker 3: center because obviously the funds were released, and people remember

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Speaker 3: coverage of that the funds were released. That's been like

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Speaker 3: central to this Republican criticism of the Biden administration. Jake Sullivan.

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Speaker 3: I'll let him speak for himself, but he goes back

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Speaker 3: and forth with reporters about what happened to that money

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Speaker 3: and how it's been used so far. Take a look

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Speaker 3: at this.

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Speaker 9: This activity that you've just laid out, all of the

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Speaker 9: ways that they are complicit in this. The administration said

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Speaker 9: that if we see them going in the wrong direction,

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Speaker 9: that we would start down. I understand the position that

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Speaker 9: you guys have, but not a dollar this has been spent.

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Speaker 9: But will you prevent it from getting into their hands

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Speaker 9: to allow them to, you know, do what they do

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Speaker 9: that you just laid out.

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Speaker 5: Let me just reiterate what I said, because it's unequivocal,

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Speaker 5: not a dollar that money has been spent, and I

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Speaker 5: will leave it at that.

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Speaker 6: You consider yes.

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Speaker 3: So that's of course a reference to the six billion

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Speaker 3: dollars that were unfrozen after they had been in South Korea.

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Speaker 3: But there was a prisoner swap obviously, as people likely remember,

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Speaker 3: not that long ago, actually within just the last month,

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Speaker 3: right Ryan, It's like a matter of weeks that that happened.

438
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 3: And the Republican criticism is that, you know, money is fungible,

439
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: so Iran knew it had that money coming into the bank.

440
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: Jake Sullivan's question is, so whether that money is has

441
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 3: been unfrozen, They would say it's arguably irrelevant because Iran

442
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: knew it had these unfrozen six billion dollars coming in

443
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 3: and could then put that money into you know, funding Hamas,

444
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 3: and can still put that money into funding Hamas. Sullivan

445
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: is saying, well, it's it wasn't unfrozen. Basically, that's the

446
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: best response that the White House has to that question.

447
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: It's interesting, did you read between the lines that they're

448
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: going to refreeze it without saying they're going to refreeze it.

449
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like it, which is also interesting from

450
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: the perspective of it's sort of their concession that they

451
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: knew the sort of question of fungibility of money was

452
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 3: obviously on the table when they unfroze the funds to

453
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: begin with. It was a matter of diplomacy, negotiation. Obviously

454
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 3: it was a prisoner swap. But knowing that, it sounds

455
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: actually like both the United States and Israel were underestimating

456
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: what their intelligence was telling them about Hamas's ability and

457
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 3: will to launch an attack like exactly like what we saw,

458
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 3: which was sophisticated land sea air. I don't it sounds

459
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: exactly like because they seem reading between the lions to

460
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 3: say they might freeze those funds again, exactly like they

461
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 3: had no idea, no idea that this was coming. Because

462
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: it's I have a hard time believe and they would

463
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: have moved done that prisoner swap if they did.

464
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: Oh, they certainly, I think we can be I think

465
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: we can be certain that they did not see that coming.

466
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: What we know is that Iran is politically toxic in

467
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: the United States, and but just how toxic it is determines,

468
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: you know, what level of Dayton negotiation and administration feels

469
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: like it can get away with. And so it felt

470
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: like they're at a place where they could unfreeze these funds,

471
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: do the prisoner swap, you know, perhaps move move forward

472
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: on some other issues that they're working on, including getting

473
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: more kind of oil into the kind of global oil

474
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: oil capacity, even if we're not the ones buying it,

475
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: if we can do something the lower prices. But then

476
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: Iran's toxicity goes to nuclear levels in after this assault,

477
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: because you know, Hamas is Hamas is a sovereign and

478
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: independent organization, but it is also financed heavily by Iran

479
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: like it, you know, So people need to understand that

480
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: there is that relationship between them, but that doesn't mean

481
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: that Iran gets to call the shots. The Houthis are

482
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: similar in a similar arrangement. They are, they are financed

483
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: heavily and backed by Iran, but they make decisions independently

484
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: of Iran. Sometimes they make decisions that Iran is upset

485
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: with because they are, you know, furthering their own interests

486
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: rather than Iran's. When Iran's and the Houthis line up,

487
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: they work together. When the Houthis an Iranian interests diverge,

488
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: the Houthis for the most part, I'm going to serve

489
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: their own interests well.

490
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: And there was quoting it. I think this was actually

491
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: in the New York Times of a Hamas militant who

492
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 3: had said Iran funded them to some seventy million dollars

493
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: last year. So the six billion is not These numbers,

494
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: at least in my own head, are all over the place,

495
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 3: like just there's there's so much that's getting thrown around

496
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 3: about funding an aid. Six billion dollars being unfrozen to Hamas,

497
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 3: fungibility that freeze to Iran, Yes, sorry, that frees up

498
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: a lot of money then that they could potentially send

499
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: to Hamas Ish potentially.

500
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: Right, because the scale is so different, Like this is

501
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: six billion dollars in oil revenue that is going into

502
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: the economy of Iran. The amount of money relatively that

503
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: they're giving a Hamas is tiny and so.

504
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: To you mean relative to the oil money, right, Yeah.

505
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: So you know the six billion was frozen and they

506
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: still financed Tamas.

507
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: And by the way, this is just a staggering like

508
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: the amount of money that we send to Israel in

509
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 3: terms of aid, and you can obviously include all other things,

510
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 3: pales in comparison to what we have sent to Ukraine

511
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: over the last couple of years, which is going to

512
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: be a huge question on the table going forward as well.

513
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: We have sent more money to Ukraine the last couple

514
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 3: of years than we have sent to Israel, like total

515
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 3: in decades. It's that much money. And so that's again

516
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 3: that's what Congress is talking about right now, is potentially

517
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: lumping these into a Ukraine funding bill that you would

518
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: attach Israel. Increase in Israeli military aid. Biden said yesterday

519
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: he's sending two ships to the Mediterranean with about two

520
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: dozen advanced fighter jets, so he said, quote, We're surging

521
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: additional military assistants, including ammunition and interceptors to replenish the

522
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 3: Iron Dome. We're going to make sure that Israel does

523
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: not run out of these critical assets to defend its

524
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 3: cities and its citizens. So I'm sure our annual spending

525
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: when it comes to Israel is going to be very

526
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 3: high over the next year. There's no question about that.

527
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: This is going to raise really big questions for people

528
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: like Lindsay Graham, who have been pushing really hard for

529
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: Congress to send more money to Ukraine, have said that

530
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: the money is being totally monitored and is being spent appropriately,

531
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: and there's accountability that's about to get even more ugly

532
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: than it already has been.

533
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: And if it's just money, the US will keep sending money.

534
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: But primarily and significantly, what we're sending is weapons and equipment,

535
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: and that is a limited factor. We can print whatever

536
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: you need, like you want to print another couple hundred

537
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: million dollars and spend it in Pakistan buying munitions, like

538
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: as long as the Pakistanis can fire up and rev

539
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: up those munitions factories, then we can keep sending dollars

540
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: over there and sending the munitions into Pakistan. What we

541
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: do run out of is you know, component parts, supplies,

542
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: you know, replenishment for him Mars for iron, dome for

543
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: Ukraine had been pushing Israel to move a lot of

544
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: equipment from Israel to Ukraine that obviously isn't going to

545
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: happen at this point.

546
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: Which Israel resistant.

547
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: Israel absolutely did resist to.

548
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: The consternation of the West.

549
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: And it was much easier for the US to move

550
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: all of our kind of stockpiles to Ukraine when we

551
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: had these massive stockpiles. We're now drawing that down.

552
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And we were talking before the show that again

553
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: there's the nine to eleven question that looms heavily over this.

554
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: There's also the question you were talking about World War Two.

555
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: I was saying, it feels like nineteen thirteen because the

556
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: way we are seeing the coalition's coalace is pretty unsettling.

557
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because the new way. There was a new book,

558
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what the camera with the title of

559
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: the Last Imperial War or something like that, which makes

560
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: the argument that you have to understand World War two

561
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: as really starting with the Japanese invasion of China and

562
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: with the Spanish Civil War, meaning that you know, from

563
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: the early nineteen thirties you started having these conflagrations that

564
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: started sorting people into camps, and then it evolves into

565
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: the broader war. So yeah, it's who knows where this

566
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: is going. Anthony Blincoln's final element here is headed to

567
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: Israel on Thursday, I think, is leaving tonight. It'll get

568
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: there Thursday morning, and so he'll be there as this

569
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: offensive ramps up. We don't know what is coming, but

570
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: it certainly looks plausible we're going to see a ground

571
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: invasion of Gaza.

572
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, and members of Congress have been on the

573
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: ground in Israel. Some of them were actually just on

574
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: normal maybe codels, but which was book. Kubuker was there,

575
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: So I saw w. Wasserman Schultz on MSNBC yesterday saying

576
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: she was still hearing from different countries in the Middle

577
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: East that they are supportive of the Abraham Accords. And

578
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: that's another huge question. We were talking about the deadliest

579
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: year in the West Bank in years earlier as being

580
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: a crucial context. Well, of course the Abraham Accords, and

581
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: Crystal and Sager have talked about this, whether Iran is

582
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: trying to sort of scuttle them because they see that

583
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 3: as a threat. Started under President Trump, Biden was trying

584
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: to negotiate something with Israel, as Saudi Arabia was saying basically,

585
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: you know, every day we're getting closer to it, We're

586
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: getting closer to it. Biden had that quote when he

587
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: was with Netanyahu recently where he said, if you told

588
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 3: me we'd be negotiated peace deal with Saudi Arabia and Israel,

589
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: I would have said, what the heck are you drinking?

590
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: Something like that from not so long ago whatever. W

591
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 3: Washerman Schultz says, it seems that that is basically dead

592
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: in the water right now.

593
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: We'll see. You know, the push among the among those

594
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: US allies, Saudi Arabia and the UAE to cut a

595
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 1: Middle East peace deal without the Palestinians is still strong.

596
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.

597
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: And there is and what you can talk about this later,

598
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: but there is there's some thinking that some of the

599
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: strategic games of Hamas in acting with such barbarity, was

600
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: to then produce a barbaric response which would then scuttle

601
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: the these coming deals.

602
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, like that question of World wars, one

603
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 3: to pick your poison. When we see the kind of

604
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: tectonic plates of geopolitics moving in these directions. People are

605
00:33:53,360 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: rightfully disturbed. Let's move on to let's move onto some

606
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: of the footage from yesterday. We want to obviously bring

607
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: that to everyone. This is footage from Israel from Ashkalan

608
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: yesterday of the Iron Dome. If you're listening to the podcast,

609
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 3: just an incredible shot of the Iron Dome intercepting Hamas

610
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: rockets over ash Kalon, just from just from yesterday, Ryan,

611
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: that is in the broad daylight. You know, It's something

612
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 3: that we see every now and then, of course, but

613
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: really really something to see that happening over you know,

614
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 3: residential areas like it was yesterday.

615
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Iron Dome was was really overwhelmed on

616
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: Saturday just by sheer numbers, and it just became a

617
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: math game that the Iron Dome can you shoot a

618
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: certain number of missiles in a minute, and if there's

619
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: more than that, that's it. Like that, that's the math.

620
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: And the only way they can ramp that up is

621
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: by getting more launchers, you know, and and somehow perhaps

622
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: speeding up the reload time, which is going to be

623
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: which is you know, at some point that's only you

624
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: can only reload so fast. So UH, you know, by

625
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: launching links five thousand of them on Saturday, they were

626
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: they were able to overpower that. And I wonder if

627
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: the in the in this era of of the Iron

628
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: Dome and of their their mass surveillance, because Israel has

629
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: pioneered the the most sophisticated kind of cyber surveillance technology

630
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: out there, Pegasus being kind of the most famous of them,

631
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: which you know, can get into your Android or your

632
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: iPhone without you even clicking anything. Famously, I think they

633
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: used it on UH, Saudi's licensed didn't used it on

634
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: Jamal Kasogi, and Gaza has been known as one of

635
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: the most surveilled areas in the world. And so the

636
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: combination of the surveillance plus the Iron Dome, plus this

637
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: UH sophisticated technological security barrier that was outside of Gaza,

638
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: which included unmanned machine guns linked to UH, linked to cameras,

639
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: linked to just the most over the top kind of

640
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: sophisticated technology you can imagine, kind of probably then lulled

641
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: them into a sense of hubris and allowed then Hamas

642
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: to counter strategize say well, okay, well then we're not

643
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: going to use phones and you know, we're going to

644
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: annihilate this technological barrier with just drones that were if

645
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: you saw some of these videos, that drones would go

646
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: up and just drop a grenade in there and take

647
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: the communications offline. So now you've taken this thing offline,

648
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: and now your unmanned machine gun is just unmanned and unroboted,

649
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: and you can then take a bulldozer through the fence.

650
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 3: Right. And yeah, we were talking earlier about the level

651
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 3: of intelligence failure a lot of people saw yesterday. We

652
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 3: can put this next element up on the screen from

653
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: Kafar Aza, just stunning, stunning, shocking images from a kibbutz

654
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 3: that was just brutalized. There was an I twenty four

655
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: report yesterday, so that's Israeli media, that suggested a very

656
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: specific number of babies were decapitated. Now this is not confirmed.

657
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: That specific number was not confirmed yesterday. What was confirmed

658
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 3: CBS News Nora O'Donnell said that there were bodies of

659
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 3: decapitated babies recovered in the area of this kibbutz. That

660
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: was again the only way to say it is absolutely brutalized.

661
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 3: You see the screen, You see this quote from the

662
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: Reuter's article that starts. A baby's crushed crib lying outside

663
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: a burnt home, corpses strewn on streets, body bags lined

664
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 3: up on an outdoor basketball court, the stench of death everywhere.

665
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 3: Just a few days ago, this was the sleepy scene

666
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 3: of Kibbutz of Kafar Aza and Israel, Israeli farming community

667
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: of about seven hundred and fifty people, many of them

668
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: families with young children. Now it's become a chrianal after

669
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 3: Hamas gunman burst out of the Gaza strip on Saturday

670
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: and laid waste to the village Ryan. The extreme virality

671
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 3: of the I twenty four report led to this really

672
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: I think unfortunate situation yesterday. On the one hand, journalist's

673
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 3: job is to fact check extraordinary claims, especially when they're

674
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: coming from the idea from a government essentially, which is

675
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: what I twenty four was sourcing their report to. On

676
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: the other hand, getting into this conversation about how many

677
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 3: babies were decapitated is not a good place to be.

678
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole so an I twenty four so people

679
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: understand is you know, is known as closely linked to Netanyah,

680
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: who closely linked to the Israeli military. It's not known

681
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: as kind of a dispassionate, independent source of news. It's

682
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: the first place that the Israeli military is often going

683
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: to go with paganda. And so but your point is

684
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: I think a good one in that you're I was

685
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: confused at the entire nature of this debate here because

686
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: on the one hand, you had some people on the

687
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: left who we are saying, look, the deaths of civilians,

688
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: this is what decolonization is like, this is this is

689
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: what it looks like. Yet when this particular atrocity was

690
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 1: floated in a completely kind of unverified way, everybody's well, well, no, no,

691
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. So it really lifted the veil and

692
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: showed that actually, okay, at least okay, there is humanity there,

693
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: like you do care about atrocities.

694
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: I agree with that. I think that's an interesting take

695
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: because to me, someone on the right the left, I think,

696
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: has this reasonable fury when Western media takes talking points

697
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 3: from the Israeli government and regurgitates them as though they're

698
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 3: automatically the sort of verified truth. And I think that

699
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: frustration is what I think brought us to the point

700
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: yesterday where people who were on the one hand saying

701
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: this is the reality of decolonization. This is what it

702
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: looks like. But on the other hand, we're saying this,

703
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 3: you know, we don't know that the story is true.

704
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: We're coming from that place of you know, I twenty

705
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 3: four going viral and what you do, like I twenty

706
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 3: four said something that doesn't make it automatically true, and

707
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: that's again, like it's just not a good place to

708
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 3: be in when the reality is that and the realities

709
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 3: that that village was brutalized, was flattened, and as Nora

710
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: O'Donnell came in with unfortunately last night, that there were

711
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: recovered decapitated babies that were found.

712
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: Just even with Nora O'Donnell's report there, I'd still want

713
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: to see some more details on I mean, I actually

714
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: don't want to see, yeah, more details, but i'd want

715
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: to see more corroboration and more verification because it's it

716
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: still doesn't scan. But to me, you don't need any

717
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: of that in the sense that what Hamas was doing

718
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: in this village and others was horrifying, Like they were

719
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: going door to door in some cases and finding civilians

720
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: in their homes and killing them or capturing them like

721
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: that is horrifying. Enough.

722
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: Like so.

723
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: Even if, as I think eventually we will, this kind

724
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 1: of decapitation of babies thing is debunked, that's not necessarily

725
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: something to celebrate because you still are left with a

726
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: horrifying mass murdered babies, right, murdered minimums at minimum, Yes.

727
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: Murdered babies, Holocaust survivors taken hostage. I mean there's there's

728
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: just nothing. Yeah, no, absolutely, I'll add a French journalist

729
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: said she cross checked images of the I don't even

730
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 3: want to keep saying the.

731
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: First which and I saw that French journalist's post that

732
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: was like just completely unconvincing. I didn't it was.

733
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: It was odd. So here's what I was going to say,

734
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: is that, on the one hand, I think the quibbling

735
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: over the numbers and the veracity of the story, which

736
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: Sky News had an interesting conversation about, is coming from

737
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 3: this very real and legitimate frustration that some people have

738
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 3: about Western media running with the sort of gospel you know,

739
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 3: whatever the idef is saying or whatever, yeah, who's saying

740
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: as true. On the other hand, I think for people

741
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 3: like me on the right, so people that are or

742
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 3: people that aren't even on the right but are generally

743
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: pro Israle. The frustration came from why are we quibbling?

744
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 3: And that led some people to say the story must

745
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: be true, if that makes sense. So like that it's

746
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 3: it's this like very visceral frustration that why is anybody

747
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 3: trying to why are people so aggressively trying to cast

748
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: doubt on the story when, as you said, right, like

749
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: the level of atrocities here manifest for everyone to see,

750
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 3: why are we quibbling over the number? And so I

751
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 3: think those sort of two visceral reactions were what was

752
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 3: butting heads yesterday.

753
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: And I think the steaks seemed to be that the

754
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: more that each side can can if if the if

755
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: the Israelis are able to dehumanize Hamas in particular to

756
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: a complete extent, then there are some that believe that

757
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: that then completely takes the gloves off, right that when

758
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: people say, well, look, you're killing you're killing babies with

759
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: this wanton destruction of a civilian population, then they will say, well,

760
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: how's it feel like? So it takes takes you know,

761
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: eat it like this is this is your revenge and

762
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: and so it feels like there's a kind of propping

763
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: up of some of the like most over the top,

764
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, tr atrocity propaganda that you can get to

765
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: to then justify, ironically, like the exact same thing, the

766
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: deaths of thousands or maybe more than tens of thousands

767
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: of children, because something like a million people in Gaza

768
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: are under are fifteen and unders.

769
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 3: Almost half the population, almost half the population.

770
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: So you're gearing up to annihilate thousands or tens of

771
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: thousands of those children with no sakes.

772
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 3: Who don't understand the state, they're not old enough to understand,

773
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: who have never the overwhelming number of whom have never

774
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: been able to leave Gaza.

775
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: And that's what she's like when when the news said

776
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: that people broke out of Gaza, like that should have

777
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 1: been a clue to people, What do you mean they

778
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: broke out? Broke They in prison? Oh, they are in prison.

779
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: It is a prison.

780
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: That's a so that we have video here from MSNBC

781
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: yesterday of a reporter talk about this question we discussed

782
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: earlier in the show. Quot from New York Times that

783
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to reread after we watch this clip from

784
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: MSNBC about what people in Gaza. We're hearing from the

785
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: Israeli government.

786
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 10: There is a network of tunnels underneath Gaza City built

787
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 10: by Hamas. It's how they move military hardware around, and

788
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 10: you can bet that those Israeli hostages, those one hundred

789
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 10: and fifty or so people are likely in those tunnels.

790
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 10: They are likely spread out across the network as Hamas

791
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 10: tries to make it as difficult as possible for Israel

792
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 10: to rescue these hostages, who were seen as such valuable

793
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 10: bargaining chips. In terms of how Israel goes about reducing

794
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 10: civilian casualties, they say that they use very precise intelligence

795
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 10: before they strike any specific location. I've been inside Gaza

796
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 10: when Israel has been bombing and you meet Palestinians who

797
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 10: say that their phone rang and on the other end

798
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 10: of the line was an Israeli Mili military officer telling

799
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 10: them in Arabic, We're going to strike your apartment building

800
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 10: because there is Hamas infrastructure in it, but we want

801
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 10: you to go door by door first and make sure

802
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 10: that there's nobody inside the building before we strike. In

803
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 10: some cases they can stay on the phone for an

804
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 10: hour making sure that the building is empty before they bombit.

805
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 10: But as I said Hoose, it is simply the reality

806
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 10: that when you drop high powered explosives and a place

807
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 10: is densely populated as Gaza City, that there will be

808
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 10: civilians killed.

809
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that was actually a really good report there,

810
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 3: because on the one hand, and this is again from

811
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 3: New York Times, we read this quote earlier in the show.

812
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: Israel has given broad warnings for people to leave certain

813
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: neighborhood or towns, but has acknowledged they're not as extensive

814
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 3: or specific as they have been in the past. And

815
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: many residents say they have not received them gods, and

816
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: say they have nowhere to go anyway, So some people

817
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 3: get go ahead.

818
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: And what that reporter was talking about, just be clear,

819
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: is previous bombings, and I've been in briefings. Is really

820
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: defense for us here in Washington to say that they

821
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: can also send me text messages right to a building

822
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: before they bomb. They also do what's called a tap,

823
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: like they'll they'll drop a very low explosive on the

824
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: roof of the buildings as a warning like okay, if

825
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: you missed the text messages, if you missed the calls

826
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: like boom, like get out, get out, and you hear that,

827
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: and they get out. But that's before like it's not

828
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: clear that they're doing that this time because the amount,

829
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: the volume of explosives being dropped and the sheer expanse

830
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: and scope is unprecedented.

831
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 3: And the mingling of civilians hostages with hamas, which is

832
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: always a challenge. You know, if you take Israel charitably

833
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 3: and say they're trying to minimize civilian casualties, I mean,

834
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 3: either way, that's an enormous challenge. Because of the urban,

835
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: densely packed nature of Gaza of the West Bank, I mean,

836
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: that is just incredibly difficult, difficult already. But now that's

837
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 3: why I think this New York Times quote is helpful.

838
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 3: It says that even Israel has acknowledged they're not as

839
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 3: extensive or specific in this place as they have been.

840
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 3: Let's let's roll this next element. This is footage from

841
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: you know what, So we're going to do a voice

842
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: over here if you're listening. Just again, I used this

843
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 3: word earlier, brutalized place of Gaza. Here, eastern part of

844
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 3: Gaza that has been completely flattened. You can see in

845
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 3: some of that rubbel things like Teddy Bears. It's just

846
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: completely completely awful and previously one of the safest places

847
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 3: in Gaza reportedly, Yeah.

848
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: And it's also setting up all sorts of places for

849
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: snipers and other militants to hide. Oh yeah, no, if

850
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: the expected ground invasion does come.

851
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: A couple comparisons yesterday being drawn to Fallujah, but on

852
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: a much higher level, you can look at like a Leppo.

853
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 3: I think already we have some examples of what this

854
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 3: could look like, and it is horrific.

855
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 1: Right, yes, it's right, and it wouldn't be the first time.

856
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: That's something that Israel Is doing out of kind of

857
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: anger and to project strength and force ended up backfiring.

858
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: Like so like let's like, let's say that they level

859
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: this area, all of these different areas and end up

860
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: creating kind of sanctuaries for snipers and other fighters who

861
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 1: then are able to then stave off an invasion. Because

862
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: it's not guaranteed that the invasion is going to be successful.

863
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: You know, they've called up three hundred thousand people. The

864
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: war in Lebanon in two thousand and six did not

865
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: go particularly well or whenever I'm going to get the

866
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: years wrongly warre and Levin and another war and another

867
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: ground invasion of Gaza. You know, it did not go

868
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: as well as the Israelis would have would have liked

869
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: it too, because the advantage is always on the defending

870
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: to the to the defending force, the ones who can

871
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: hide behind walls run through tunnels against the ones who

872
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: are you know, and moving through a city that they

873
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: know well from satellite imagery but don't know as well

874
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: from having lived in it their entire lives.

875
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 3: And let's run through some other updates. Here we can

876
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 3: put the next next element up on the screen. This

877
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: is from the AP reporting that in Israeli airstrike has

878
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 3: killed nineteen members of the same family in a southern

879
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 3: Gaza refugee camp. We can go to the next element

880
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 3: as well. B six. This is from the New York Times.

881
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: Israeli airstrikes hit marketplace and mosques in Gaza, killing dozens.

882
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 3: The strikes also hit two hospitals, schools and infrastructures. The

883
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: UN said, now this is be six. We can just

884
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 3: go to the next element. We'll roll through these so

885
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 3: you get a glimpse into what's happening. At least six

886
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 3: Palestinian journalists have been killed in Israel's bombings of Gaza.

887
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: That's from Al Jazeira. And then finally the next element

888
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 3: here from the Times of Israel. This is a big one. Ryan.

889
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 3: Israel has been said to bomb Rafass to Egypt after

890
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 3: telling Gozans to flee through it. The Messenger reported this

891
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: as well. Actually, there was a strange situation yesterday where

892
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 3: in ISRAELI spokesperson went out and said people can get

893
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: to Egypt through Rafa and then said the Rafa section

894
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 3: is actually the Rafas crossing is closed. Did you see

895
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 3: that happen?

896
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you saw right and you've seen some

897
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: video merge of people who are at this crossing getting bombed. Yeah,

898
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: and so but at the same time, Egypt is not

899
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: here for that either, because one of the big fears

900
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: of Egypt, Jordan, other countries is that Israel was eventually

901
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 1: going to continue the displacement that you know, the Gaza

902
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: is as populated as it is because of displacement you

903
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: know previously, and so the thinking was there's going to

904
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: be a crisis that leads to the border getting opened

905
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: up with Egypt and millions of people getting pushed out

906
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: of Gaza and into Egypt. And Israel quote unquote solves

907
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: the Gaza problem that way by just completely cleaning it

908
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: out of Palestinians and then rebuilding it and populating it

909
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: with Israelis. And so the Egypt has always been you

910
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: call it paranoid or not, they have been on guard

911
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: for that. And so there's not a situation where Egypt,

912
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: you know now that maybe there's maybe there is a

913
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: humaniteering crisis that gets to such a level that Egypt

914
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 1: does eventually succumb to that and allows it. But Egypt

915
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: is also a dictatorship basically that is afraid of its

916
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: own shadow, is afraid of every civil society group that

917
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 1: operates in It's within its borders, is afraid of anybody

918
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: with any like even remote links to the Muslim brotherhood.

919
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: Like the last thing that they want is two million

920
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 1: people that they feel like might cause some internal instant ability.

921
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: It would like that you're like, you're going to have

922
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: instability as a result of that. So Egypt does not

923
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: want to open up the border.

924
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 3: Here enormous instability, uh you know coming that will have

925
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 3: ripple effects of course, into into Europe, into the United States,

926
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 3: all throughout the Middle East. By the way, hundreds of

927
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: people were killed in Afghanistan when an earthquake hit this

928
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 3: week as well, and that those always caused mass refugee situations.

929
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: So again there's going to be so much ripple effect

930
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 3: from all of this in the years to come, which

931
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 3: we'll talk about in a bit. Speaking of the ripple effect,

932
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 3: this has obviously royaled American culture, American politics, and Miya

933
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 3: Khalifa was fired by Playboy for her comments. She's long

934
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: been a supporter of Pala Sign of Israel, and she

935
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,919
Speaker 3: obviously weighed in in recent days. She this is Fox

936
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 3: News is framing they say Mee kally for referred to

937
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 3: Hamas terrists as quote freedom fighters and said Powertinians are

938
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 3: quote fighting for freedom every day. She says, she referred

939
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 3: to the Palestinian citizens as freedom fighters. That's what her

940
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 3: response was to all of this. But Playboy fired her

941
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 3: and said it was quote reprehensible or her comments were reprehensible. Ryan,

942
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 3: what did you make of that.

943
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: It's interesting in the way that if you say something

944
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: that is kind of supportive of Palestinian liberation in the

945
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: midst of atrocities that are being carried out by Hamas,

946
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: it is immediately assumed by the listener that you are

947
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: endorsing those atrocities. And that is what her boss were.

948
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 1: At this she was working at a mushroom pilocybin company

949
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: as well got fired from that publicly on Twitter. If

950
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: you saw this her boss publicly cently, you're fired. And

951
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: this is why how could you endorse this? But if

952
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: you say I stand with Israel while Israel is bombing

953
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: civilian popular relations, nobody automatically says, oh, well, so therefore

954
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 1: you're saying that you support, you know, the the killing

955
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: of these civilians like you're you're you're allowed a distinction

956
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: when you say I stand with Israel to say, well,

957
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: I stand with Israel when they're doing things the right

958
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 1: way and I and I oppose the bad things that

959
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: they do. But if you say I stand with Palestine,

960
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: it is you're you're not allowed to have that distinction.

961
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: You're automatically assumed, well, you must be supporting all these atrocities.

962
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: You're not. You're not saying that you want, you know,

963
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: Palestinians to have dignity and self determination, which even Biden

964
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: himself said last night, it must be that you're supporting terrorism,

965
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: right and and and barbarity.

966
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 6: Right.

967
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: Well, so she said this is what first caught people's attention.

968
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 3: Right after the attack. She wrote, X quote, if you

969
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 3: can look at the situation in Palestine and not be

970
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: on the side of Palestinians, then you are on the

971
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 3: wrong side of apartheid and history will show that in time.

972
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 3: She then quote, please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine

973
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 3: to flip their phones and film horizontal. Then she two

974
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 3: days later said the statement is in no way, shape

975
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 3: or form is enticing spread of violence. I specifically said

976
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 3: freedom fighters, because that's what the Palestinian citizens are fighting

977
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 3: for freedom every day. She also in another post said

978
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: I can't believe the Zionist apartheid regime is being brought

979
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 3: down by guerrilla fighters in fake Gucci shirts. The botpicks

980
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 3: of these moments better reflect that. Now, Playboy, which has

981
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: this interesting history of actually championing free speech right invoked

982
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 3: that history when it fired her and said, Playboy, and

983
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:40,479
Speaker 3: this is actually fascinating. We are longtime champions of free speech,

984
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 3: but we don't condone quote hate speech. And we've talked

985
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 3: for years.

986
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 1: Right now, then you're not a free speech champion.

987
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: That's yes. And we've also talked for gears about this

988
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 3: definition of hate speech and how everybody uses it as

989
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 3: a cudgel basically to silence different voices. On the one hand,

990
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 3: Playboy is a private company that has every right to

991
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: you know, say we we don't like cancel culture. We're

992
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 3: pro free speech. We just you know, personally don't want

993
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 3: someone like this on our you know, on our team.

994
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 3: We don't think it's good for uh, you know, our image.

995
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 3: We don't think it's good for X, Y and Z.

996
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: That may be inconsistent. You'll be able to make the

997
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 3: argument that you championing free speech. If that's your image,

998
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 3: then you shouldn't be firing somebody who's saying something like that.

999
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: On the other hand, that question of like what is

1000
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 3: the line between you know, speech that's that's not cancelable

1001
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 3: because even the people who are the most ardent, strident

1002
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 3: opponents of cancel culture will say sometimes like I don't

1003
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 3: think that you should be punished by the government, but

1004
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 3: I also support a private organization's right to be like nah, no, like,

1005
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 3: we're not going to stand for this. It's has been

1006
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 3: actually a pretty interesting conversation over.

1007
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: Mia Khalifa, and I think the other thing that happened

1008
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: here is is that you had so to me, it's

1009
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: taken for granted that the killing of civilians is atrocious

1010
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: and whole and should be condemned across the board. No

1011
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: matter who the civilians are, like, they do not deserve

1012
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: to be casualties of somebody else's war. But then you

1013
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: had a small number of loud people who were kind

1014
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: of saying, well, that's kind of okay in the process

1015
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: of decolonization, and so a thing that ought to have

1016
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: just been assumed that civilians are off limits, civilians should

1017
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: not be killed, all of a sudden, now that becomes

1018
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: a live question. Do you actually endorse the killing of civilians?

1019
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: And then if you don't specifically condemn it, then you're

1020
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: assumed to then be supporting it. And I think she

1021
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: partly got caught up in that.

1022
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, well no, I think that's true. And actually you

1023
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 3: and I may disagree on this. Let's move to the

1024
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 3: next element. We can put it up on the screen.

1025
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 3: This is from John Hassen, Conservative, who is referring to

1026
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 3: his column in town Hall where he goes in on

1027
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 3: that sort of thirty four Harvard student organization joint statement

1028
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 3: that they issued. They say, quote, we and many people

1029
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 3: have probably seen this so far, the undersigned student organizations

1030
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 3: hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all the unfolding violence.

1031
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 3: The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli

1032
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 3: violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for seventy

1033
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 3: five years, and then we've been talking about these sort

1034
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 3: of unfortunate cycles of fingerpointing that this can devolve into.

1035
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 3: Often what I would take issue with in the statement

1036
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: from Harvard students that has been echoed by student statements elsewhere,

1037
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 3: which some people I think have unfairly conflated with school statements.

1038
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 3: You know, if a bunch of students put together a

1039
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 3: letter at NYU or Columbia or wherever, it's not the

1040
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: same thing as the school putting out that statement, obviously,

1041
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 3: and I think there has been some conflation of that.

1042
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 3: I think we the undersigned student organizations hold the Israeli

1043
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 3: regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. Is an absurd

1044
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 3: thing to say in the wake of what happened over

1045
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 3: the weekend. But Ryan, now there's sort of these big

1046
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 3: questions about free speech in college campus that scramble the

1047
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 3: usual coalitions of conservatives who typically support free speech in

1048
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 3: college campuses and are sort of looking at this in

1049
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:13,439
Speaker 3: a different lens.

1050
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: Suddenly, well and Barry Wise has been one of the

1051
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: leading voices of this kind of anti cancel culture movement,

1052
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: and she has never once had any problem differentiating between

1053
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: free speech rights for me, but not for the when

1054
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: it comes to the Palestinian question, Like, she was a

1055
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: leading kind of anti Palestinian activists in college and she's

1056
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: never kind of moved away from that, and the the

1057
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: like cancel culture for Palestinians on college campuses has always

1058
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: been kind of kind of baked into the hypocrisy around

1059
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: our cancel culture. But you've seen kind of the kind

1060
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 1: of social justice left becomes so hegemonic on campuses. Yeah,

1061
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: that that that now they're facing a backlash for an

1062
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: unwillingness to kind of, uh, you know, approach it with

1063
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: any nuance. That's just it's okay to say that, you know,

1064
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: Hamas has agency as well. Exactly, you don't. You don't.

1065
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: You're not required to master people at a music festival, right, Like,

1066
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: that's not.

1067
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 3: And it's not.

1068
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: It's a choice.

1069
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 3: And you can believe that Israel created the conditions in

1070
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 3: which people made the decision to massacre people at a

1071
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 3: music festival kill babies. On the other hand, they still

1072
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 3: made the decision to massacre people and kill babies. That

1073
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 3: is not entirely Israel's fault, which is the exact quote

1074
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: from the statement. That's a really unfortunate way to put it.

1075
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, go ahead. So what's really interesting, though,

1076
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: is if you line up that if you line up

1077
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: that Harvard state, that Harvard student statement with the major

1078
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: editor that was wrung with threats newspaper. Obviously the hog

1079
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: REDZ newspaper is going to write it in a more

1080
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: sophisticated way because they are actual you know, journalists and

1081
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: live in Israel and they're not college students who live

1082
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: in America. But there's not a ton of daylight between

1083
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: some of the reasoning. And so let's put up this

1084
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: really important how reds piece, and I think important for

1085
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: Americans to understand. The headline here is Netanyah who bears

1086
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: responsibility for this Israel Gaza war haw rets editorial. And

1087
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: I think if this were written by a student group

1088
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: here in the United States, you would have people, you know,

1089
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: people coming for them and people losing their minds. Said,

1090
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: this is one of the largest This is the lead

1091
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: editorial from one of the largest newspapers in Israel. Just

1092
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: to read a little bit of it. Here the disaster

1093
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: that befell Israel on the holiday of Sint Torah is

1094
01:02:55,240 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: the clear responsibility of one person, Benjamin Netan Yahoo, the

1095
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, who has prided himself on his vast political

1096
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: experience and irreplaceable wisdom and security matters, completely failed to

1097
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: identify the dangers he was consciously leading Israel into when

1098
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: establishing a government of annexation and dispossession, when appointing Bezalel

1099
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: Smotrich and Itamar ben Gvir to keep positions while embracing

1100
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: a foreign policy that openly ignored the existence and rights

1101
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: of Palestinians. Netnah, who will certainly try to evade his

1102
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,479
Speaker 1: responsibility and cast the blame on the heads of the Army,

1103
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: military intelligence and the Shinbet security service, who liked their predecessors.

1104
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: On the eve of the yamp Kapor war, saw a

1105
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: low probability of war, with their preparations for a Hama's

1106
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: attack proving flawed, they scorned the enemy and its offensive

1107
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: military capabilities. Over the next days and weeks, when the

1108
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: depth of israel defense forces and intelligence failures come to light,

1109
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: a justified demand to replace them and take stock will

1110
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: surely arise, and so this has led to calls for

1111
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: net Nyahu to step down, and it shows an ability

1112
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: to think in a multi dimensional way that that we

1113
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: lack here in the United States.

1114
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 3: Now.

1115
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: I think it probably also goes without saying from Retz's

1116
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: perspective that, of course they condemn hamas because they don't

1117
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: have to say that they you know, they know they

1118
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 1: probably you know, everyone in that newspaper knows somebody who

1119
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: was you know, who was either killed or captured or

1120
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: or something knows somebody who knows somebody. They have plenty

1121
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: of coverage of that, right, and so that's probably why

1122
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: it goes without saying for them, where it doesn't necessarily

1123
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: for some of the some Harvard students. The other funny

1124
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: thing funny, you know, not ha ha, funny dark You

1125
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: just saw a white white shoe law firm withdraw a

1126
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: job offer that it had made to a common summer

1127
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: associate who signed this law, which is just which just

1128
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: like exposed a how absurd all of this is because

1129
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: you have because well and also you have these students

1130
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: who are you know, play acting as revolutionaries, you know,

1131
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: cheering on you, like the assault on a music festival

1132
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: in the in the most kind of over the top language,

1133
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: while being a summer associated a white che law firm

1134
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: planning to take planning to go into big law after

1135
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: Harvard when you're going to then you know, uh represent

1136
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,919
Speaker 1: Beaupoul after they spill chemicals all over some like indigenous

1137
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: village in or.

1138
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 3: Whatever or Rathon.

1139
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, who do you who do you think these

1140
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: big law firms represents? So it does kind of you know,

1141
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: put the lide to like whether or not this is

1142
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: like a true like revolutionary element within our society.

1143
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the coold hard reality there. And there's just another

1144
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 3: quick thing on the Haretz up ed. I do think

1145
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 3: there's a really big distinction between saying Netsan Yahoo is

1146
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 3: the sort of blame for the disaster lies at his feet.

1147
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 3: They used the word disaster, the Harvard students used the

1148
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 3: word all unfolding violence, entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.

1149
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 3: And I think Hard's on sort of the political level.

1150
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 3: Saying that Yaw who created the conditions, is responsible for

1151
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 3: creating the conditions that led to the disaster is different

1152
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 3: from saying holders Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.

1153
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 3: But all that is to say, this question of where

1154
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 3: even the people who are upset about the broadening definitions

1155
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 3: of hate speech. Where do they draw the line as

1156
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 3: to what constitutes hate speech? I think is a really

1157
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 3: interesting one and it is a worthwhile conversation they have.

1158
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 3: These are horrible conditions in which to have that conversation,

1159
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 3: but it's one worth paying attention to. Impossible. Yeah, that's

1160
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 3: well said. Let's turn now to the war in Eastern

1161
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 3: Europe Ukraine. Of course, specifically, Reuter's is reporting. We can

1162
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 3: put this element up on the screen here that Finland

1163
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 3: has said quote out side activity likely damaged a gas

1164
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 3: pipeline and a telecom's cable. A subsea gas pipeline, Reuter

1165
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 3: says in a telecommunications cable connecting Finland and Estonia under

1166
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 3: the Baltic Sea have been damaged in what may have

1167
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 3: been a deliberate act, the Finnish government said on Tuesday.

1168
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 3: NATO Secretary General Yen Stoltenberg said NATO was sharing its

1169
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 3: information over the damage and stands ready to support the

1170
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 3: allies concern. Finland joined the military lines in April, while

1171
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 3: Estonia has been a member since two thousand and four.

1172
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 3: The Baltic Connector gas pipeline was shot on early Sunday

1173
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 3: on concerns that gas was leaking from a hole in

1174
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 3: the forty eight mile pipeline. Finish operators said that it

1175
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 3: could take months or more to repair. We do have

1176
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 3: some video actually of that press conference yesterday. It's in Finish,

1177
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 3: So we're going to do a little reading of the

1178
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 3: subte so the information that the Border Guard and the

1179
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 3: coast Guard, this is the Prime Minister of Finland received

1180
01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 3: this warning. The leak is located in the Finnish Exclusive.

1181
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 3: According to a preliminary assessment, the damage discovered could not

1182
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 3: have been caused by normal use of the pipeline or

1183
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 3: pressure fluctuations.

1184
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 1: It is likely that the damage is the result of

1185
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 1: external activity, he adds, and so right, so there also

1186
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: are kind of there's seismic evidence that there was an explosion,

1187
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: and they said they're still sorting through it, but they

1188
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,680
Speaker 1: do have data that shows that there was an explosion

1189
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 1: right around the time that they saw the pressure massively drop.

1190
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: They're saying, this is a very very big hole in

1191
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,760
Speaker 1: the pipeline. So just not the kind of thing that

1192
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: they can think of any way that this could have

1193
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 1: happened other than placing a bomb. This if that's now

1194
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: and there's also the telecom pipeline that is not that

1195
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: is that is a separate attack, which is you know,

1196
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: cutting off community. You know, significant amounts of communications. Gas

1197
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,639
Speaker 1: prices rose in Europe as a result of this, wrote

1198
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: obviously rising and Finland as well. If this is what

1199
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: we think it is, this would be payback for the West,

1200
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, blowing up the North Stream pipeline.

1201
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 3: Well allegedly of course, right that was a conspiracy theory

1202
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 3: for all of you know, a week until the media

1203
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 3: was forced to admit because its unsourcing was telling them.

1204
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think if we include Ukraine in the West,

1205
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: then I don't think there's anybody who questions that the

1206
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 1: West broadly speaking, was responsible for blowing up this pipeline,

1207
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: because because we have now firmly established I think through

1208
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: lots of basic evidence that it wasn't Russia, right Like,

1209
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:44,799
Speaker 1: we also have intelligence that Russia very quickly afterwards began

1210
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: kind of specking out and looking for bids to fix it.

1211
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 1: So like the idea that they would blow it up

1212
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 1: just to try to start fixing it right away like

1213
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,759
Speaker 1: just strains reasoning to the point where it just breaks.

1214
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 3: Another thing, we should notice gas prices, which were already

1215
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 3: spiking because of everything we've been talking about to the

1216
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 3: conflict that is ruling the Middle East was already they're

1217
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 3: already going up, and in Europe there even higher after

1218
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 3: what happened on Sunday, Ryan that question of payback for

1219
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 3: the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline is a

1220
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 3: really interesting one. Finland obviously just joined NATO. We talked

1221
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 3: about that earlier and to some controversy, not a ton

1222
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 3: of controversy, but to some there are some people who

1223
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 3: thought that wasn't wise. And now I think there's a

1224
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 3: question of whether everyone in Finland thinks that it was wise.

1225
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And this is so let's also talk

1226
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 1: about the way that this conflict is now going to

1227
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 1: play out in the wake of the explosion of violence

1228
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: in the Middle East. You know, you immediately saw Zelenski

1229
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: put out a video saying that the Russians you know,

1230
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: were behind basically this Hamas attack, a real effort to

1231
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 1: kind of shoehorn that you know, that war into this one.

1232
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: You know, clearly Iran has involvement, not not we don't

1233
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: not operational involvement, but we know that Iran is a

1234
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: supporder of Hamas. Iran also has been allied with Russia

1235
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,879
Speaker 1: on this Ukraine war. So I think from the Ukrainian perspective,

1236
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,200
Speaker 1: they're like, all right, that's close enough, Like let's say

1237
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 1: that Russia did this, but you know, Russia is not.

1238
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: You know, Russia has tight alliances with Israel as well,

1239
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: and particularly a lot of the far right members of

1240
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 1: the Israeli government have a lot of links with the

1241
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,919
Speaker 1: Russian So the idea that Russia is like operationally supportive

1242
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,519
Speaker 1: of this Hamasak was always absurd. But the charge, I

1243
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: think is interesting and revealing because it shows I think

1244
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: a real anxiety from the Ukrainians that this is going

1245
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 1: to be the beginning of the end of Western support

1246
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: for their war, that this is that it's going to

1247
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 1: wind down into kind of a ceasefire at which Russia

1248
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 1: will then basically de facto sees the territory that they've

1249
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: gained so far because a two fronts before Taiwan has

1250
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 1: opened up.

1251
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 3: Yes, it might be too much, and Russia and China

1252
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 3: have both been critical of the US and the wake

1253
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 3: of the violence over the weekend, which we were talking

1254
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 3: earlier in the show about the sort of echoes of

1255
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 3: what happened before World War One, what happened before World

1256
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 3: War two, let alone nine to eleven, which is the

1257
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 3: obvious parallel pallel that everybody's drawn. And of course geo

1258
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 3: politics are always sort of shifting alliances and coalitions. But

1259
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:34,759
Speaker 3: I think what we are seeing does really have serious

1260
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 3: echoes of early twentieth century mid twentieth century stuff, because

1261
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 3: these alliances are starting to coalesce in ways over like

1262
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 3: for instance, oil prices right now Iran Saudi Arabia. So

1263
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 3: when you look at Abraham Accords and how that was

1264
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 3: an effort Biden has been trying to bring together Saudi

1265
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 3: Arabia in Israel. Iran is on the other side of

1266
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 3: the conflict with Hamas gas prices, oil prices are at

1267
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 3: the center of all of this. And then in the

1268
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 3: same goes for Russia in Ukraine. Those the coalescing of

1269
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 3: these really big superpowers and China is a huge factor

1270
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,759
Speaker 3: that has sort of been allied with Russia in Ukraine,

1271
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,759
Speaker 3: and Iran, by the way, has been allied with Russia

1272
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 3: and Ukraine to varying degrees. That's again very unsettling to say.

1273
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: The least, right, and people are making a lot of comparisons,

1274
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: like you said to from you know, October seventh to

1275
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: September eleventh, But the key date that they're leaving out

1276
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 1: of that is two thousand and one versus twenty twenty three.

1277
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 1: The US place in the world is entirely different in

1278
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three than it was in two thousand and one.

1279
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: Two thousand and one, Russia had just become Russia after

1280
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: ten plus years, about ten years earlier, and had gone

1281
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: through the greatest collapse in GDP and human misery and

1282
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 1: costs and just quality of life and life expectancy in

1283
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: human history throughout the nineteen nineties. So Russia is just

1284
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 1: completely flat on its back. China is twenty two years

1285
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: back in time from the exponential growth that they've seen

1286
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,560
Speaker 1: for those twenty two years, So they were in no

1287
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: capacity to be flexing anything outside of outside of their

1288
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: very specific region. So when we decided that we were

1289
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,759
Speaker 1: going to follow invading Afghanistan with an invasion of Iraq,

1290
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 1: the UN could say whatever they want, The world can

1291
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 1: say whatever we want. We were just going to do

1292
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: it like there was absolutely no check on our kind

1293
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: of military power at that time. Now, we eventually found

1294
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: that the reality of occupying a country for several years

1295
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 1: it didn't want us to be occupying. It was its

1296
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: own check and that becomes its own insurgency and develops

1297
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 1: into ISIS, et cetera. But in terms of other geopolitical

1298
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: forces checking the United States, there were none. Today there

1299
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: are and so I think that really inhibits the kind

1300
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: of room that we have to maneuver and how many

1301
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:13,919
Speaker 1: kind of fronts we can take on these different violent conflicts,

1302
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:17,839
Speaker 1: while also like China making inroads in our own backyard.

1303
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 3: Yes, and we would be remiss if we didn't mention

1304
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 3: that nuclear weapons are at the center of absolutely all

1305
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 3: of this. That's something that weighs very heavily on Israel obviously,

1306
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 3: given and places like Gaza, Palestinians minds, given how small

1307
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 3: these areas are, how close they are to nuclear powers.

1308
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 3: But we're talking about all nuclear powers here for the

1309
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 3: most part when we talk about where these coalitions are,

1310
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 3: what they're turning into, and when that happened before, when

1311
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,600
Speaker 3: the Cold War was front of mine, we saw the

1312
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 3: United States funding getting behind Mujahadeen, and a lot of

1313
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 3: people now looking back on Israel's history with Hamas of course,

1314
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 3: and decisions that were made about where to you know,

1315
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 3: sort of give support money in different circumstances. So these

1316
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 3: nuclear conflicts, we have so much history to learn from,

1317
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 3: and it just it feels like we're not learning from

1318
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 3: any of it.

1319
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: So at the end of the show, we're going to

1320
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 1: talk to Palicinian American advocacy advocate and policy analyst Yusef

1321
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: Mooney Year But I think we need a break from

1322
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: this for a little bit, So let's talk about Hillary

1323
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: Clinton and George Santos.

1324
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 6: No.

1325
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:23,799
Speaker 3: Well, of course, we did want to bring you coverage

1326
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 3: of one of the most inflammatory things Hillary Clinton has

1327
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 3: maybe ever said. That's a long list, but let's take

1328
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,960
Speaker 3: a listen to her one thing she said that caught

1329
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 3: a lot of people's attention, and rightfully so on CNN

1330
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 3: last week.

1331
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:39,719
Speaker 11: So it's mega extremists take their marching orders from Donald Trump,

1332
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:44,719
Speaker 11: who has no credibility left by any measure.

1333
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:46,879
Speaker 6: He's only in it for himself.

1334
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 11: He's now defending himself in civil actions and criminal actions.

1335
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 11: And when do they break with him, you know, because

1336
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 11: at some point, you know, maybe there needs to be

1337
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 11: a formal deprogramming of the cult members, but something needs

1338
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 11: to happen.

1339
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 3: We get Christina and ammenpur just kind of laughing at

1340
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 3: that of course, somewhat chilling coming from the former Secretary

1341
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 3: of State. It's one thing if someone says it on

1342
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 3: a podcast. It's another thing when it's coming again from

1343
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 3: the former Secretary of State and first Lady. It carries

1344
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 3: a whole lot more weight in that case, and such

1345
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:21,679
Speaker 3: an interesting glimpse into the mind of America's most powerful people. Ryan,

1346
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 3: I think it's really important to recognize that privately, she

1347
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 3: would probably say the same thing about a whole lot

1348
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,799
Speaker 3: of Bernie Sanders supporters, And that is where it's chilling,

1349
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 3: like extremely chilling. We're seeing some laws already in the

1350
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 3: UK as it relates to protests around what's happening in

1351
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 3: Israel and Palestine about limiting potential speech. This is, i mean,

1352
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 3: government efforts to start limiting speech. In this kind of

1353
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 3: high tech, social media, digital world, people are getting way

1354
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 3: more brazen about saying things exactly like what Hillary Clinton

1355
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 3: just said.

1356
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,720
Speaker 1: Somebody described her, I think accurately, as kind of the

1357
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,559
Speaker 1: raw id of a certain kind of absolutely liberal democrat

1358
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 1: at this point.

1359
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 3: A powerful one.

1360
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's just the things that she says privately

1361
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: with her friends who not along. She now just says

1362
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: them in interviews with people who then also.

1363
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 3: Not along a journalist who's laughing at it.

1364
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:16,719
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of funny.

1365
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:18,759
Speaker 3: I mean she wasn't laughing because it was funny.

1366
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: She's also not gonna like she doesn't actually have any

1367
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: power anymore. It's in it, but it's very interesting to see,

1368
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: you know, where her mind is or has has gone.

1369
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 1: My first thought from the perspective of Democrats who are

1370
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:35,519
Speaker 1: watching this and being like, can you like so many

1371
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 1: normy Democrats were like, can you please stop? Right like,

1372
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: she has lost so many people who please stop. My

1373
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 1: first thought was about Herbert Hoover, who absolutely insisted on

1374
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:52,560
Speaker 1: showing up at every single Republican national convention for the

1375
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 1: rest of his very long life, right like he lived

1376
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 1: into like the seventies or something. People no, no, he

1377
01:18:59,479 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 1: wanted to beak and they're like, can you not speak?

1378
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: Maybe you're Herbert Hoover. You're killing us man like most qualified,

1379
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:16,799
Speaker 1: and there's an irony there. Let's assume that Hillary Clinton

1380
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 1: was elected president. Had she been the three most qualified

1381
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: like on paper presidents in history would be her James

1382
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: Buchanan and Herbert Hoover and Herbert Hoover. James Buchanan went

1383
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: down as the two worst presidents. You got to say,

1384
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: like in our history, and the Republicans every four years

1385
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 1: had to watch this guy get up on TV and

1386
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: address the American public and remind the American public that

1387
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 1: the Republican Party was the party of Herbert Hoover as

1388
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 1: they were trying to shake him off, and you know,

1389
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 1: and battle this this kind of democratic cogemony that grew

1390
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,720
Speaker 1: up from the Great Depression that Herbert Hoover, you know,

1391
01:19:55,800 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 1: mishandled so badly, and so here here, Hillary Clinton, for

1392
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 1: the rest of our lives is just going to be

1393
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: rolling out interviews saying increasingly unhinged things.

1394
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 3: I had to look up a fact because I thought

1395
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 3: Herbert Hookuver at one point had to seed a spot

1396
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:14,600
Speaker 3: to Claire Booth Loose, and I looked it up this

1397
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 3: in New York Times from nineteen forty four at the RNC.

1398
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 3: I think I have to go back into the Loose biography.

1399
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 3: But I think for some reason she had to like

1400
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 3: steal the spotlight for him, and he was like glad

1401
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 3: to give it up to her.

1402
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how glad he was. So the story

1403
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,760
Speaker 1: goes right there, they're begging him, really come on, we

1404
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 1: can finally like it's come on, FDR can barely speak

1405
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 1: any nineteen forty four hur like, we can beat this

1406
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 1: guy this time. No, you can't. You will not beat him.

1407
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 3: And this is the New York Times frames that is

1408
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 3: to hand over the torch of the Republican Party to

1409
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:49,480
Speaker 3: quote a new generation. So Hillary Clinton maybe should recognize

1410
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 3: that quote a new generation?

1411
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: Might there Hoover, She's not going anywhere.

1412
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 3: What would be frightening? Speaking of the generational problem here

1413
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 3: for Democrats, I'll put this, we can put this next

1414
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 3: element up on the screen. This my boss. Molly Hamingway

1415
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:06,719
Speaker 3: over at the Federalist commenting on what Michael Hayden said

1416
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 3: about Senator Tommy Taberville, who a lot of Democrats are

1417
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:15,560
Speaker 3: deeply upset with for blocking the confirmations of people in

1418
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:20,559
Speaker 3: the military military nominees over the Pentagon's policy to pay

1419
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 3: for some of its staffers to get abortions. In the

1420
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 3: light of the Dobbs decision that's been going on for

1421
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 3: a year. Tuberville's holds I think goes back to March,

1422
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 3: so Molly said. Former CIA Director Michael Hayden calls for

1423
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,040
Speaker 3: the assassination of Senator Tuberville because the Senator is performing

1424
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 3: and Molly's takes as a conservative desperately needed oversight of

1425
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 3: the US military. Now, Hayden responds to some of the

1426
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 3: conservative backlash, this is the next element. Ed says, Basically,

1427
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 3: I was surprised to wake up this morning and discovered

1428
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 3: that many MAGA nuts had lost their minds over my

1429
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 3: suggestion that quote coach Tuberville not be considered a member

1430
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 3: of the human rights I stand by that view. I'm

1431
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 3: wishing you all on nice day, even the entrance Tommy Tubberville.

1432
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 12: Again, Ryan, this is something that if someone said on

1433
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 12: a podcast, it's like whatever, the former CIA director a

1434
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 12: completely different story.

1435
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 3: And I think it just gets to the conversation we're

1436
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 3: having about how some of these like the bitterness of

1437
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 3: both former and Liz Cheney, Hillary Clinton, Michael Hayden, this

1438
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 3: kind of past generation of neo conservative, neoliberal American leaders

1439
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 3: is leading itself to this, this brazenness. In prior years,

1440
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 3: I mean, people would be like, what are you what

1441
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 3: are you doing? Man?

1442
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: There are a lot of raw IDs running around out there,

1443
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 1: rampant raw letting their ID flag fly on on x

1444
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: dot Com.

1445
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, maybe it's a maybe it's a Twitter thing.

1446
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,639
Speaker 3: Maybe that's all. Maybe if it but for Twitter, except

1447
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton was starting to Christian Amo bor right, so

1448
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 3: not but for Twitter and Michael Hayden. Uh, there's a

1449
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 3: great Columbia Journalism review piece back from back in twenty

1450
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:03,839
Speaker 3: seventeen that is like castigating the media for taking anything

1451
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 3: he says seriously when you look at his history of

1452
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 3: lying about torture Grave, his history of lying about Edward

1453
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 3: Snowden and the NSA, I mean, the guy is an

1454
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:14,840
Speaker 3: absolute joke that somehow still gets published in places like

1455
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 3: USA Today and seen on cable news. But again, former

1456
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:21,599
Speaker 3: CIA director saying that about a sitting senator, Hillary Clinton

1457
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 3: saying that about millions of Americans. Normal times.

1458
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 1: Let's move on to a less dangerous sociopath. And I'm

1459
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: kind of a funnier one, so.

1460
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 3: Much funnier and also an indicator of what normal times

1461
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 3: we are living in.

1462
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: So George Santos, facing another indictment from the Feds, put

1463
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: this up here. So the new charges include a bunch

1464
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:51,799
Speaker 1: of his schemes to basically trick the Republican Party into

1465
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 1: well into thinking that he was a more financially viable

1466
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: candidate than he was so that he would then get

1467
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 1: financial support from the Republicans because in both parties like

1468
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,679
Speaker 1: you have to show significant amounts of contributions or personal

1469
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:10,360
Speaker 1: wealth or else they're just not interested in your candidacy. Now,

1470
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: there's also more pedestrian drifting in here. Basically, Santos was grabbing,

1471
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 1: allegedly grabbing his contributor's self, his contributors credit card numbers,

1472
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 1: and then just running them and running them and running

1473
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 1: them and moving their money into his personal bank account,

1474
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,439
Speaker 1: into his campaign account, into other candidates accounts now in

1475
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 1: order to it's a brand new kind of straw donor

1476
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 1: kind of scandal. Usually a straw donor scandal means, okay,

1477
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 1: you're only allowed to give six thousand dollars, so you know,

1478
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 1: let's say across the campaign. So but you want to

1479
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 1: give fifty thousand dollars because you've got a lot of money.

1480
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 1: You really support this person, So you give six thousand,

1481
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: You give six thousand to your daughter, to six thousand

1482
01:24:57,560 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 1: to your son, six thousand to your other son, to

1483
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:02,439
Speaker 1: your aunt, your uncle, and they all give six thousand

1484
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 1: each and then you spread it around and the campaign

1485
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: gets fifty thousand dollars. That is illegal. That is one

1486
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 1: of the few things that is actually prosecuted when it

1487
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 1: comes to campaign finance left in this world. Now, what

1488
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 1: he did is he did straw donors, but without any

1489
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: actual money. Just it was like straw straw. And so

1490
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: what he did is he had his finance team who's

1491
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:31,840
Speaker 1: just getting indicted along with him and probably flipped on him.

1492
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 3: Now his treasurer is pleaded guilty.

1493
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: Right, What they did is that he gave them the occupation,

1494
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,560
Speaker 1: the address, and the names of a bunch of his

1495
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: relatives and then they just put them in their spreadsheet

1496
01:25:44,320 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 1: and told the FEC and told the Republicans, this person

1497
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:49,640
Speaker 1: gave us five thousand dollars. This person gave us five

1498
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. But it didn't actually represent as far as

1499
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,759
Speaker 1: we can tell from the indictment, money that came from elsewhere.

1500
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: It was just fabricated. Yeah, just made up. And then

1501
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 1: he said he was going to blow in his campaign

1502
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars. We all kept wondering where did

1503
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,759
Speaker 1: the five hundred thousand come. Hillary's like it must be Russia.

1504
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: And I don't know if Hillary said that, but like

1505
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: that's it was like the HILLARYID type person yes, it

1506
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:12,720
Speaker 1: was like, this must be Russia that gave him this

1507
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:16,280
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars. Turns out he didn't have five undreds.

1508
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:19,679
Speaker 3: Right, because that was for so long and we've talked

1509
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 3: about this many times. That was one of the biggest

1510
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 3: questions looming over this is, how on earth did George

1511
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,640
Speaker 3: Santos have five hundred thousand dollars to lend his campaign?

1512
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,600
Speaker 3: Where did it come from? Why is he not telling us?

1513
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:33,559
Speaker 1: And we're all such suckers. The source that he had

1514
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 1: this money was him. He was like, oh, maybe he's lying.

1515
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 3: So the government says that he had less than eight

1516
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 3: thousand dollars in both of his bank accounts at the

1517
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 3: time that he claimed to loan five hundred thousand dollars

1518
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 3: to his campaign. Now, given the evidence I imagine the

1519
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,639
Speaker 3: government has in this case, and George Santo's established pattern

1520
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 3: of lying, I think it's probably fair to take their

1521
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,760
Speaker 3: word for it. In the superseding indictment here, again, he

1522
01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:59,560
Speaker 3: was originally indicted pleaded not guilty. This one supersedes that,

1523
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 3: and he's I mean, I assume going to plead not

1524
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 3: guilty to this. I have no idea as well, Yeah,

1525
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:06,600
Speaker 3: I might as well if he's going to keep doing it.

1526
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 3: But if they're saying he had less than eight thousand

1527
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 3: dollars in both of his bank accounts, I mean, and

1528
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 3: was claiming to learn five hundred one thousand dollars to

1529
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 3: his campaign and filed that report with the FEC. It's

1530
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 3: not that he said I'm loaning five hundred thousand dollars

1531
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 3: to the FEC or to my campaign. He filed that

1532
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,880
Speaker 3: inner report with the FEC, which you can understand then

1533
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:27,519
Speaker 3: why his campaign treasurer Nancy Marx is in a plea

1534
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:32,120
Speaker 3: agreement right now, because that is damning. He also is

1535
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 3: accused of just abject credit card fraud. Here's another part.

1536
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 3: In one instance, the court documents, according to CBS News,

1537
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 3: unsealed Tuesday, revealed that Santos allegedly racked up fifteen eight

1538
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 3: hundred dollars on a contributor's credit card, some far higher

1539
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:50,640
Speaker 3: than federal campaign laws permit. That donor quote did not

1540
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:55,320
Speaker 3: know or authorize charges exceeding such limits. So he somehow

1541
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 3: has gotten access by being the ANNADELVI of Congress to

1542
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 3: people's credit card information, is making unauthorized charges, and the

1543
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 3: government says he's doing some of this for personal expenses

1544
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 3: on donors. That is basically unheard of.

1545
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: That it's not the kind of corruption we're used.

1546
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 3: To, taking your own donor's credit card information and racking

1547
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:19,160
Speaker 3: up sixteen thousand dollars on it, thinking somehow you're not

1548
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:21,120
Speaker 3: going to get caught. That's really remarkable.

1549
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 1: The kind of corruption we're used to is if you

1550
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 1: give me gold bars, then I will do official acts

1551
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:29,719
Speaker 1: on behalf of the Egyptian government.

1552
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 3: The donor is in on it.

1553
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, not I'm just going to steal the gold

1554
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 1: bars from the back of your car.

1555
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're not gonna notice that. I'm going to

1556
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,520
Speaker 3: be in Congress and Everything's going to go fine. Its associopathy.

1557
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 1: I think his scheme was always hinged on not winning,

1558
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:49,599
Speaker 1: and that was his It wasn't his fault. I don't

1559
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 1: think he tried to win. Yeah, but he accidentally won Democrats.

1560
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 1: Could you know, Tom Swosey what it will beat him

1561
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,360
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty then didn't run for reelection in twenty

1562
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:04,280
Speaker 1: twenty two and the people that they put up were

1563
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 1: just a mess. And so he's like, uh oh, now

1564
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: what He must have had the most mixed feelings on

1565
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 1: his election night.

1566
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 3: Well, and I think there's always two important things to

1567
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 3: keep in mind with this. One is that a lot

1568
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 3: of this happened in the shadow of local media, which

1569
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 3: has been diminished to the point where or I should

1570
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 3: say that it happened in the shadow of media not

1571
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:33,519
Speaker 3: existing local media basically not existing anymore. There was an

1572
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 3: outlet in Long Island that was doing a pretty good

1573
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 3: job of this, but it was one It was you know,

1574
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 3: Galeman's work. But you know, when you don't have local

1575
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:45,679
Speaker 3: media digging into the stuff, these primaries, digging into these

1576
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 3: lower level elections, you end up with stuff exactly like this.

1577
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,679
Speaker 3: And then on the other hand, Republicans had opposition research

1578
01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 3: because you do what's called a vulnerability study that was

1579
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,600
Speaker 3: conducted by a top firm for George Santos. So the

1580
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 3: vulnera ability study goes through all kinds of stuff, not

1581
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 3: this specific, but all kinds of red flags with George

1582
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 3: Santos that if anybody's campaign got that vulnerability report, all

1583
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,679
Speaker 3: the consultants would quit and be like absolutely not. Everybody

1584
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 3: on the campaign would quit and be like absolutely not.

1585
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 1: He says he worked for Goldman Sachs, Google turns uf no.

1586
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 3: And it's a powerful enough like group of people that

1587
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,280
Speaker 3: were working on this vulnerability report that you imagine. I

1588
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 3: have a hard time believing this didn't make its way

1589
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 3: around the New York Republican Party, and a lot of

1590
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 3: conservatives have said, this is the eagerness of sort of

1591
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:33,520
Speaker 3: the Republican Party's establishment to say we have an intersectional

1592
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 3: sort of gay, Hispanic Republican and New York is you know,

1593
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 3: there's a red wave that's going to wash across New York.

1594
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:41,680
Speaker 3: Look at the George Santos guy. He's gay, Hispanic, and

1595
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,840
Speaker 3: he's a Republican. Look at us go And that's how

1596
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 3: you end up with George Santos, because everybody just says

1597
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 3: it's worth it to put someone in there that checks

1598
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:51,680
Speaker 3: kind of the boxes that allow you to trot him

1599
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:54,800
Speaker 3: out as a diversity trophy for Republicans as opposed to

1600
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:56,520
Speaker 3: actually somebody who can serve as constituents.

1601
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 1: And they're like, and it's a lack of civic responsibility.

1602
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 1: They're like, not, art's not our problem. Like Democrats need

1603
01:31:02,360 --> 01:31:03,719
Speaker 1: to figure it out, and the media needs to figure

1604
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:05,439
Speaker 1: it out. If they don't, then it's on y'all.

1605
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:05,839
Speaker 3: Whoops.

1606
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 1: Yep, Anyway, thank you, George Santos. That was fun and

1607
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:12,560
Speaker 1: we really needed that. Up Up next, we're going to

1608
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,760
Speaker 1: be joined by Yusuf moon a year, the head of

1609
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 1: the Palestine Israel Program at the Arabs Center in Washington,

1610
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 1: d C. Stick around for that, Alred to talk more

1611
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,360
Speaker 1: about the ongoing conflict. We're joined now by Yusuf Moon

1612
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:29,680
Speaker 1: a year who's head of the Palestine Israel Program at

1613
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: Arab Center in Washington, d C. Usuf k thanks so

1614
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 1: much for joining us. We're just saying that, you know,

1615
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 1: you're you get very busy when violence breaks out in

1616
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 1: the Middle East, and I know that must be a

1617
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 1: difficult place, a difficult role to kind of play in

1618
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:46,600
Speaker 1: this in this ecosystem.

1619
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:53,599
Speaker 7: You know, my my kids, uh know, we're quite quite

1620
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 7: young and not aware of all the brutality that is

1621
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 7: taking place, but they understand that when and when Baba

1622
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:05,799
Speaker 7: gets busy like this, something terrible is happening in the region.

1623
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 7: And you know, I've spoken to many people over the

1624
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 7: last several days, and in many ways it's kind of

1625
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 7: a encapsulation of a bigger part of this problem. Time

1626
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 7: and time again, particularly when there are Israeli victims. People

1627
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 7: want to hear about this situation, but it is the

1628
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:34,479
Speaker 7: long stretches of time in between the periods when my

1629
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:39,799
Speaker 7: phone is ringing that are the reason why this keeps happening.

1630
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:44,679
Speaker 7: And in those periods of time, there's little attention paid

1631
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:47,719
Speaker 7: to the situation on the ground that Palestinians are facing

1632
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:51,599
Speaker 7: day in and day out, underneath the system of structural violence.

1633
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 7: And you know, we are witnessing now a massive Israeli

1634
01:32:56,640 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 7: military operation that's about to take place in the Gaza Strip.

1635
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 7: It's already begun with aerial bombardment. Over a thousand Palestinians

1636
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:10,720
Speaker 7: have been killed, five thousand wounded, and electricity and water

1637
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:13,600
Speaker 7: and fuel has been cut off to an already.

1638
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 6: Destitute and desperate Gaza Strip.

1639
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 7: This is going to be perhaps the sixteenth or seventeenth

1640
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 7: Israeli military operation in Gaza in the last twenty years.

1641
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 7: Each time Israeli military has said that their objectives are

1642
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 7: to attack the Palestinian militants, degrade their capabilities, and so

1643
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:39,400
Speaker 7: on and so forth, and each time Palestinian fighters end

1644
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,639
Speaker 7: up showing that their capabilities are actually greater the next

1645
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 7: time around.

1646
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 6: There is no military solution to this.

1647
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 7: And I am deeply, deeply concerned that in this moment,

1648
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:55,840
Speaker 7: particularly as American officials have given a complete backing to Israel,

1649
01:33:56,600 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 7: that an Israeli government that is effectively led by the

1650
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 7: most far right and extremist constellation of Israeli politicians in

1651
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 7: its history are going to be carrying out unspeakable and

1652
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:12,920
Speaker 7: unprecedented acts of mass atrocities in the Gaza Strip.

1653
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:18,640
Speaker 6: There is still time to avert further bloodshed.

1654
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:22,920
Speaker 7: We can't go back in time and prevent what has

1655
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:28,160
Speaker 7: already happened, but there is time to prevent this situation

1656
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:32,799
Speaker 7: from becoming far, far worse. And I think my message,

1657
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 7: and I think the message of all reasonable people in

1658
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:40,080
Speaker 7: this moment, should be that we don't want to be

1659
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 7: remembered as the people who were silent before genocide took

1660
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 7: place in the Gaza Strip.

1661
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 6: And this is what we are about to see.

1662
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:51,679
Speaker 3: I fear, and we can put this up on the screen.

1663
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 3: You had a post that I really want to talk

1664
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 3: about here. This is from Twitter X. You responded to

1665
01:34:57,920 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 3: a tweet where somebody said Israel is writing from month

1666
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 3: long ground campaign in Gaza, and Egyptian official tells The

1667
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:04,880
Speaker 3: Times of Israel saying that this message has been passed

1668
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 3: along from Jerusalem to Cairo. And you responded and said

1669
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 3: it will likely be years that question of what's to

1670
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 3: come you seth, I want to give that question to

1671
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:19,920
Speaker 3: you while also asking how you think the Biden administration,

1672
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:24,360
Speaker 3: the President himself and Jake Sullivan, who talked yesterday. Sullivan

1673
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:27,400
Speaker 3: was actually answering questions from reporters. Biden gave prepared remarks,

1674
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,519
Speaker 3: what does the future look like in the context of

1675
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:33,000
Speaker 3: what we've seen from the administration in the last twenty

1676
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 3: four hours or so.

1677
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:37,599
Speaker 7: I think one of the most disturbing things we've heard

1678
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:40,560
Speaker 7: from this administration is really a de emphasis on the

1679
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 7: importance of the laws of war and the protection of

1680
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:46,639
Speaker 7: civilians in the Gaza strip, despite the fact that we've

1681
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 7: been hearing comments from Israeli officials at the highest levels

1682
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 7: about the need to flatten Gaza, about the need to

1683
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:55,680
Speaker 7: eradicate people, about the need to.

1684
01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:59,919
Speaker 6: Target essentially the entire population.

1685
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 7: The Defense Minister announced the collective punishment through the tightening

1686
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 7: of the siege, calling the population there beast people. You know,

1687
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:16,559
Speaker 7: as as someone who has studied mass atrocities and mass

1688
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:22,880
Speaker 7: human rights abuses, periods of hysteria and dehumanization targeting and

1689
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:29,120
Speaker 7: entire people often precede these kinds of events. And the

1690
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:31,800
Speaker 7: Israeli military, as I said, is about to carry out

1691
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:36,639
Speaker 7: this operation with full American backing and of course additional

1692
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:38,160
Speaker 7: American weapons.

1693
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:41,719
Speaker 6: And I think this is something we must be urgently,

1694
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:43,479
Speaker 6: urgently concerned about.

1695
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 1: And yusef, what is the what is the effect of

1696
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:53,679
Speaker 1: cutting off food, power, water, medical supplies at this point

1697
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:56,400
Speaker 1: and how long into this do we have to go

1698
01:36:56,600 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 1: before there are more lives lost on that than even

1699
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 1: the bombing.

1700
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,600
Speaker 6: Well, that's something that's been happening throughout this.

1701
01:37:06,800 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 7: Of course, Gaz has been under a tight Israeli siege

1702
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 7: that has just been tightened even further. There were a

1703
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:17,519
Speaker 7: few hours of electricity a day in Gaza preceding all

1704
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 7: of this, limited supplies coming in, and now the tap

1705
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:27,480
Speaker 7: has been closed entirely. The effects of this are multifaceted,

1706
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:30,439
Speaker 7: and all of them are devastating to the civilian population

1707
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 7: on the ground. Hospitals right now are overwhelmed with victims.

1708
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 7: There are five thousand Palestinian injuries as of this moment,

1709
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 7: and those numbers we know are going to rise significantly

1710
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 7: because so much of Gaza has been turned into rubble,

1711
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:48,800
Speaker 7: and they have no idea yet how many bodies lie

1712
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,400
Speaker 7: beneath who is alive and who is still who is

1713
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 7: who is not.

1714
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:55,839
Speaker 6: Those hospitals are going to cease functioning.

1715
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 7: And when you target an entire population, including the facilities

1716
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 7: that are used to save people's lives, you are you

1717
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,519
Speaker 7: are carrying out an atrocity. And again, this is something

1718
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:09,800
Speaker 7: that the Israeli Defense Minister that the US government is

1719
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:13,840
Speaker 7: standing in full solidarity with, announced his clear intention to

1720
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 7: do and took full responsibility for this is unspeakable. And

1721
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:20,720
Speaker 7: you know, I fear that what we are about to

1722
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:23,080
Speaker 7: see is going to make the events of the last

1723
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 7: several days seem like a peaceful time gone past.

1724
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:30,760
Speaker 6: So you know, this is this is one of the

1725
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:32,880
Speaker 6: main impacts. The other one, which I.

1726
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:36,639
Speaker 7: Think is extremely important too and under discussed at this time,

1727
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 7: is that there are very few Western reporters in the

1728
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 7: Gaza Strip right now. You look at all our American networks,

1729
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:46,080
Speaker 7: nobody has anybody on the ground in the Gaza Strip.

1730
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:49,520
Speaker 7: There are no eyes on what is going place going

1731
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:52,040
Speaker 7: on in that place. Some of the little evidence that

1732
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 7: we have of what is happening is coming through people

1733
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:57,680
Speaker 7: who are recording and posting to social media on the

1734
01:38:57,800 --> 01:39:01,240
Speaker 7: ground in Gaza. They no longer or have electricity, their

1735
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:04,679
Speaker 7: phones are going to die. Gaza becomes a black box

1736
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 7: in which the Israeli military has been given a green

1737
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 7: light to carry out mass atrocities. Again, there is time

1738
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:14,559
Speaker 7: to still try to prevent more of this from taking place.

1739
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:18,880
Speaker 3: So on the question of that green light, the sort

1740
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:21,679
Speaker 3: of the US government now looking at what the policy

1741
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,680
Speaker 3: should be. The Israeli government on the ground say, you know,

1742
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 3: this is an ambush, a slaughter of hundreds of innocent people.

1743
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:32,719
Speaker 3: We don't want to handcuff ourselves in you know, war

1744
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 3: in a response to this. But yseuff, how would you,

1745
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 3: I guess counsel the United States as it sort of

1746
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,120
Speaker 3: you know, we've heard the Lindsay grahams, the saber rattling

1747
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:48,000
Speaker 3: from people like him, from people like Nikki Haley. On

1748
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:50,880
Speaker 3: the other hand, those you know, there are forces in

1749
01:39:50,920 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 3: our government right now negotiating with Israel, talking to Israel

1750
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 3: about how they're responding to this. So within that sort

1751
01:39:56,479 --> 01:40:00,160
Speaker 3: of context of Israel saying, on the one hand, has

1752
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:02,559
Speaker 3: to be a response, but on the other hand, people

1753
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 3: in the United States saying, we don't want to go

1754
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 3: full lidsagram, full saber rattling and you know, to quote

1755
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:12,679
Speaker 3: some of the Israeli officials that you quoted earlier, flatten everything,

1756
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 3: commit mass atrocities. What does that sort of look like?

1757
01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 3: How can the United States have those conversations responsibly with

1758
01:40:21,479 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 3: people in Israel?

1759
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:25,519
Speaker 7: You know, I don't know how many times how many

1760
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:29,200
Speaker 7: military operations have to be carried out in Gaza for

1761
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:33,120
Speaker 7: people to understand that a military solution does not exist here.

1762
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:35,760
Speaker 6: This is a failure of policy as well.

1763
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,559
Speaker 7: It's not just a failure of security, it's a failure

1764
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,640
Speaker 7: of policy, and it's a failure of imagination. There are

1765
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:46,200
Speaker 7: alternatives to this, very clear alternatives that have always been present.

1766
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 7: We need to apply international law and demand it. You know,

1767
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:55,080
Speaker 7: we cannot, as you know, Americans, say that we care

1768
01:40:55,120 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 7: about a rules based international order in Ukraine or wherever

1769
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 7: else and then pretend that international law does not exist

1770
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 7: when it comes to the Palestinians. This siege of Gaza

1771
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 7: has been going on for a decade and a half.

1772
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:14,720
Speaker 7: It's a brutal war crime, the occupation, the settlements, all

1773
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:16,720
Speaker 7: of this international law applies to.

1774
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:20,240
Speaker 6: But you know, our government unfortunately has turned a blind

1775
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 6: eye to that.

1776
01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 7: If we are sending the message to Israelis and Palestinians

1777
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 7: that there are no rules, that no holds are barred.

1778
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:31,400
Speaker 7: These are the kind of outcomes that we are going

1779
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:34,479
Speaker 7: to see. And when it comes to American officials and

1780
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:36,960
Speaker 7: some of their rhetoric, I have to say, including some

1781
01:41:37,080 --> 01:41:39,600
Speaker 7: of the politicians on the right, but not just politicians

1782
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:42,639
Speaker 7: on the right, you know, the dangers of their rhetoric

1783
01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 7: extend beyond the region. The dehumanization of Palestinians and of

1784
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 7: Arabs and Muslims more broadly is something we saw the

1785
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:53,479
Speaker 7: impact of in the aftermath of nine to eleven here

1786
01:41:53,479 --> 01:41:55,719
Speaker 7: in the United States, and we're likely to continue seeing

1787
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:58,439
Speaker 7: that in the form of hate crimes against people who

1788
01:41:58,439 --> 01:41:59,479
Speaker 7: are part of that community.

1789
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:02,720
Speaker 6: And this is something I think that is wildly.

1790
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:05,880
Speaker 7: Irresponsible on the part of our officials, and things very

1791
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:07,880
Speaker 7: well could spin out of control, not just in the

1792
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:10,600
Speaker 7: region but also here in the United States if this

1793
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:12,400
Speaker 7: kind of language is repeated and.

1794
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 1: Usef I just I think that, just objectively speaking, the

1795
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:22,400
Speaker 1: policy of siege and occupation and periodic invasion just objectively

1796
01:42:22,479 --> 01:42:26,200
Speaker 1: is not working. Like nobody would look at this situation,

1797
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:28,479
Speaker 1: all the death that we've seen over the last week

1798
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 1: and say that this is an acceptable price for whatever

1799
01:42:32,160 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 1: we have. So if we were going to use our

1800
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 1: imaginations in a broader way, what would a different approach

1801
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:40,920
Speaker 1: look like.

1802
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 7: Well, I think there are many people, unfortunately Ryan, including

1803
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:47,600
Speaker 7: in Israel in particular right now, who are saying that

1804
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:50,599
Speaker 7: the problem wasn't the siege. The problem was we haven't

1805
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:54,479
Speaker 7: hit Palestinians hard enough, if you can imagine, and that

1806
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 7: the only possible response can be to hit them harder

1807
01:42:58,200 --> 01:43:01,960
Speaker 7: because violence is the only language they understand. This is,

1808
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:06,200
Speaker 7: you know, this is the absolute lack of strategic vision

1809
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 7: on the part of the Israeli government.

1810
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 6: And it should be said here that the.

1811
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,600
Speaker 7: Israeli government has clearly failed their people, not just in

1812
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:18,360
Speaker 7: this last week, but in providing a vision for peace

1813
01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:21,559
Speaker 7: that could actually resolve the core issues here between Israelis

1814
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:26,680
Speaker 7: and Palestinians. Again, it's the path forward is not complicated.

1815
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:31,840
Speaker 7: International law and human rights are quite clear on what

1816
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 7: is right and what is wrong, who is being denied

1817
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 7: and those are the things that need to be resolved.

1818
01:43:37,800 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 7: Palestinians need to have freedom. You know, we in the

1819
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:44,240
Speaker 7: United States understand the importance of freedom and when it

1820
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 7: is denied to people year in and year out, forced

1821
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:49,919
Speaker 7: to live under a military occupation.

1822
01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:53,800
Speaker 6: People are going to oppose that.

1823
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:59,320
Speaker 7: And Palestinians have been calling for the application of international law,

1824
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 7: They've been calling for the intervention of the international community,

1825
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:03,360
Speaker 7: and they've.

1826
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,240
Speaker 6: Been ignored year after year.

1827
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 7: And so if anything is to come out of this

1828
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 7: horrific moment that we are witnessing, I hope it is

1829
01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 7: an understanding that by ignoring this issue, we are not

1830
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:21,040
Speaker 7: doing anybody any favors. And Palestinian and Israeli alike are

1831
01:44:21,120 --> 01:44:26,040
Speaker 7: going to continue suffering from violence that is the product

1832
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 7: of a system of occupation and apartheid. And it's you know,

1833
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:33,560
Speaker 7: it's unconsidable that we could permit ourselves to do that

1834
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 7: last question.

1835
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:37,640
Speaker 1: You know, the combination of there being no you know,

1836
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 1: Western media in Gaza, with the propensity of Twitter now

1837
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:46,560
Speaker 1: to surface so much garbage and unverified stuff, combined with

1838
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:49,519
Speaker 1: propaganda coming from all sides, has made it very difficult

1839
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:51,600
Speaker 1: for people to follow this. So how do you you know,

1840
01:44:51,680 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 1: how would you tell people who are watching this who

1841
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:57,200
Speaker 1: want to keep up with what's going on? You know,

1842
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 1: where do you get your news and where where would

1843
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 1: you recommend people go to get some semblance of truth

1844
01:45:03,479 --> 01:45:03,800
Speaker 1: out of this?

1845
01:45:05,240 --> 01:45:07,639
Speaker 7: I think it's important to try to hear directly from

1846
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:10,040
Speaker 7: people in Gaza themselves who are telling you about what

1847
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 7: is happening there, to the extent that we can, and

1848
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:16,599
Speaker 7: it's become increasingly increasingly difficult. I've seen people from Gaza

1849
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:19,040
Speaker 7: send out messages that their phone batteries are about to

1850
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:21,840
Speaker 7: die and asking.

1851
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:23,720
Speaker 6: The world to remember them if they never hear from

1852
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:24,160
Speaker 6: them again.

1853
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:29,200
Speaker 7: We need to look to international organizations who have credibility

1854
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:32,920
Speaker 7: in documenting human rights abuses. International organizations like the United

1855
01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:35,040
Speaker 7: Nations who've been reporting and warning.

1856
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:37,839
Speaker 6: On the situation in Gaza four years, who have been ignored.

1857
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:43,040
Speaker 7: As they've said, the situation has become increasingly unsustainable, and

1858
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:45,840
Speaker 7: even when we don't have information coming to us, we

1859
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:47,240
Speaker 7: need to use some common sense.

1860
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:48,600
Speaker 6: We need to use some.

1861
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:50,920
Speaker 7: Common sense about what is taking place on the ground,

1862
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,640
Speaker 7: a place where two million people are trapped and have

1863
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:56,800
Speaker 7: been subjected to the most horrific and bizarre experiment in

1864
01:45:56,920 --> 01:46:03,439
Speaker 7: human history, repeatedly bond and nothing good can be happening there,

1865
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 7: whether you're whether you are hearing news about it or not,

1866
01:46:07,200 --> 01:46:10,760
Speaker 7: we should expect that horrific things are are taking place

1867
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:11,280
Speaker 7: at this time.

1868
01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:15,240
Speaker 1: Well, yusef Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate

1869
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:17,760
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking time out of your day, and

1870
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:19,840
Speaker 1: of course I'm going to see you later today for

1871
01:46:20,040 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 1: my for my Intercept podcast. Always good to talk to you,

1872
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:26,800
Speaker 1: even under these unfortunate circumstances.

1873
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 6: Thanks for bringing attention to this issue.

1874
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:34,599
Speaker 1: All right, Well that'll do it for us today, Emily.

1875
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:37,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for being here and slogging through this is This

1876
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 1: is brutal. This is brutal stuff. And I hope that

1877
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 1: usef and my own prediction of where this is going

1878
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:49,519
Speaker 1: turns out to be untrue, because, like like he was saying,

1879
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:54,800
Speaker 1: we could look back on the last week and say, man,

1880
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 1: I wish there was something we could do to get

1881
01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:00,639
Speaker 1: back the tens of thousands of lives were just lost.

1882
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and as we've been talking about all day, that

1883
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 3: would potentially not just be limited to this region, and

1884
01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:11,679
Speaker 3: that can ripple into a broader conflict. We have historical

1885
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:15,320
Speaker 3: precedent for that. So it certainly feels like the worst

1886
01:47:15,439 --> 01:47:17,240
Speaker 3: is yet to come, but hopefully it's not.

1887
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:18,639
Speaker 1: We don't have to go over the brink.

1888
01:47:18,920 --> 01:47:21,439
Speaker 3: We don't have to go over the brink. Although that

1889
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:24,240
Speaker 3: message so far in Eastern Europe has not been successful,

1890
01:47:24,439 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 3: and it hasn't been successful in the region in the

1891
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,439
Speaker 3: Middle East for years either when it comes to Israel

1892
01:47:29,479 --> 01:47:30,320
Speaker 3: and Palestine.

1893
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:33,280
Speaker 1: So I'll do it for us and we'll breaking points.

1894
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:35,639
Speaker 1: Be back tomorrow. We'll see you guys next Wednesday.