WEBVTT - Thunderbolts #1 - Background and Book Club 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:00.520 Warning. 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:06.399 Today's episode canday spoilers for the debut of the Thunderbolts 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:11.320 team in Marvel Comics in nineteen ninety seven. And if 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:12.720 you didn't read that, don't worry because we're just going 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:30.120 to tell you everything that happened. Hello, my name is 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.160 Jason Muceepsion and I'm Mersey Night and welcome to next 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:34.800 our vision of the podcast where we dive deep into 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.040 your favorite Joe's movie comics of pop culture. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.239 Coming to you from iHeart Podcast. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.360 We'll bring you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.360 Thursday plus news plus news. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.800 In today's episode, it's a book club episode. But you 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.880 know what, guys, we're looking through Ip mcgeddon and there's 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.080 so much going on. We're covering the Lost of Us, 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.680 we're covering and or we're covering the Thunderbolts. So you 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.760 know what, if you didn't get a chance, don't want 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.040 to read this issue, don't worry because guess what we're 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.200 going to tell you exactly what happens in it. So 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.680 this is Thunderbot's number one from ninety ninety seven. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.600 All right, Thunderbolts number one, tell us about it, Rosie. 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.160 Okay, So in the wake of the Onslaught event where 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:16.479 we saw the terrifying villain Onslaugh essentially kill. They are 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.000 the Dangers and the Fantastic Four. They are dead. Guys 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.559 can come on for ninety ninety seven. They are dead. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.679 And I have to say, I think there's a pretty 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.440 important point in this comic because we don't really know 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.200 what the status quo is going to be going into Thunderbolts, 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:30.800 So all we know is that people keep saying the 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:32.480 Avengers are not going to come and save us, so 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.640 who knows. So the Marvel universe is without the heroes 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.280 it has long depended on. New York is in ruins 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.120 after Onslaughts attack, and the world is facing a future 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.880 without superheroes. That is until a mysterious team of heroes 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:49.200 shows up on the scene known as the Thunderbolts Citizen 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.920 V Techno, mac One, Songbird, Atlas, and Meteorite, and Mark 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.200 Bagley gives these motherfuckers the most nineties looking costumes of 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:58.360 all time, and. 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.480 So looly really nineties. 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.560 You're reading this as a kid, and you're like, oh, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.520 this is gonna be just another group of nineties superheroes. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.080 Who cares they don't make any impact on me? But 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:12.959 the book wants you to know they're important, so they're 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:14.760 going to start off by taking down the rat Pack, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.960 who are wearing some interestingly Barren Zemo coded outfits, and 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.960 the Wrecking Crew, showing that they are incredibly strong. Because 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.440 the Wrecking Crew are very strong, they have magical artifacts, 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.760 and the new team, the Thunderbolts, took them down very easily. 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.160 But just as New York and the world are getting 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.480 ready to accept their new savers, the issue has a 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.840 legendary rug pool when it is revealed on the final 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.600 page that Citizen v Is Baron Helmet z Emo and 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:49.360 the Thunderbolts are actually the Masters of Evil. WHOA. Now, 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.640 it's kind of hard to explain how this was back 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.040 in the day, because it was marketed as if this 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:57.960 was the new team you needed to know. This was 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:59.600 the new hero team you were going to care about. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.519 There were no leaks, there were no forums. They're probably 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.760 very early versions of forums, but not the kind that 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.480 would be leaking like this. There were no constant clickbait coverage, 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.880 so we were really shocked when this happened, and it's 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.359 a huge establishing point for the name of the Thunderbolts team, 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.000 which when we go into the movie. We're going to 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.799 be very interested to see if they keep because the 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.480 thing that is key to the Thunderbolts is the idea 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.280 that you think they are heroes, but they are not. 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.720 Whereas from what we've seen of the trailers, this is 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.240 the inversion of that, you think they are villains or 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:37.320 morally gray heroes who are now going to become heroes 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:39.880 in a true sense. So that would be a direct 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.840 kind of flip of what we expect from the Thunderbolts. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.200 Let's talk about that. I wonder how much of that, 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:52.560 how much of a mistaken identity mm hmmm, dynamic will 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.080 be involved in the movie based on this. As you mentioned, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.960 it's pretty it's central to Thunderbolts. 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.320 It's central. So why had such an impact is to. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.480 The issue and and to the ongoing run, which takes 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:13.560 some really fun directions, like you know, Zemo, son of 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:19.839 a Nazi thirteenth Year zero is you know, pretty keen 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:25.719 on kind of subverting heroism and doing evil while pretending 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.239 to be a bad guy. But the conflict that becomes 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.839 the most interesting conflict that drives the Thunderbolts is that 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:33.760 a lot of his team is like, wait a second, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.400 I kind of like being good guy, like it. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.640 Seems kind of good like people like people. It's kind 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.599 of easier than being villains. We don't have to do 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:43.839 as much scheming. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.320 And so I wonder if in the movie there's something 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.599 there's either that or you know, or or if the 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.720 team they flip it and the team gets set up 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:58.560 almost as bad guys. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.479 I do want if we are rooting for them, but 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.960 we end up in a situation where we know they 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.680 were trying to do the right thing, but they end 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.960 as antagonists. I think that would be really clever and 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.880 it would make sense. Put on your spoiler earmuffs if 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.320 you're going into this not seeing any trailers and you 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.200 don't want to know anything that's happening, because I do 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.200 think this is something they should have kept out the trailers. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.479 We're gonna spoil. Now we know thanks to the trailers 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.440 that you know Bob and Sentry are the same person. 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.200 So I wonder if the thing here is Bob is 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:35.160 on their team, working alongside them, and at the end 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.000 it's revealed like, well, you guys have been working with Century, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.000 who is the bad guy you were supposed to be 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.800 taking down all along, so you must truly be the 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:45.839 villains of the piece, and we end up in a 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:50.960 situation where they are perceived that way and go into 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.960 future stories as antagonists. That would be very brave of them. 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:56.720 I think to do that with Bucky. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:01.400 I agree, especially I I'm going to pitch a haircut 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:06.560 on your idea. I wonder if the Countess's idea is 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.479 we can't control Century. He becomes the Void, he kills people. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:19.799 What if we frame the Thunderbolts for all these deaths. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.480 They're bad guys anyway, and I think maybe that's where 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.520 we might end up at the end, where they defeat 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:29.640 the centry work that makes a defeat defeat they you know, 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:34.440 defeat the Void and stabilize Bob slash the Century, but 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.039 all the destruction that happens in New York and the 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:43.320 casualties then become the official story, then becomes the Thunderbolts. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.120 Did this? Yes, that actually makes a lot of sense. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.800 Could see them on the run, could see that bond 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.520 as a team tested. We also know that the Asterix, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.760 which has been a big part of the marketing and 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.520 at first seemed like maybe was less of a marketing 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.840 thing and was more of an actual Disney wasn't sure 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:02.479 if they were going to call it that, but it 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.760 has become a key part of the marketing. I definitely 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:06.520 think we could end up in a world where these 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.200 by the end, they're like being called the Dark Avengers, 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.480 or they're being called, you know, something different than the Thunderbolts, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.000 but the Thunderbolt's name would make a lot of sense 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.040 if it goes that route. Jason, that's a that's a 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.600 very good take. I think that could definitely happen. And 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.000 this is very interesting as well in a historical sense, 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.640 which go back and listen to our who are the 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.440 Thunderbolts episode if you want to hear Jason really dig 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.480 deep into this in a really fantastic omnibus. But one 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.360 of our discord users, Giant Asian Man, who I've met 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.480 fantastic comic book lover, he asked a question that was 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.600 basically like the book came out of the shadow of 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.880 Marvel's bankruptcy filing. Obviously the issue was planned and in 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.320 the works, but did that have any effect on its reception? 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.440 So I'm going to do a little brief answer to 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.760 that that yeah, touches on it, And the answer is, 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.800 like the bubble had already like the early nineties when 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.440 Image was founded nineteen ninety three, ninety ninety four, we're 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.400 talking about eight million sales for X Men issue one, 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.840 you know, the Chris Climont, Jim Lee issue Image Comics, 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.560 the death of Superman. These are huge stories, but around 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:20.200 the mid nineties it just absolutely tanked corporate greedfully supplanted 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.040 kind of creative ambition. The comic book retail sector, which 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.080 had been inflated by years of gimmick covers and variants 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.400 and foil covers and all those things we loved as 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:34.000 kids and fake promises of their collectability kind of popped 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.840 in nineteen ninety six and this massive store closers ensued, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.640 and a foolish gamble from Marvel, which again we have 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.720 a lot of fun talking about on that whose Standerbot's 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.719 issue saw The publisher turned to Rob Eifeld and Jim Lee, 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:51.560 who had left found Image Comics, and they were given 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.040 the Avengers and the Fantastic Four with the freedom to 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.240 start a new storyline outside of ongoing Marvel continuity, and 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.760 the Onslaught crossover that we mentioned provided basically an in 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.600 story excuse that resulted in Heroes reborn, a misguided initiative 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.360 that only further deflated confidence in the publisher. During that time, 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.400 cap Irom Manthor and the Fantastic Four were off the table, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.559 So in the throes of impending bankruptcy and ownership they 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.440 Marvel began to experiment and the most shocking and long 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.440 lasting of that was this Busiac and Bagley Thunderbolts, which 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.560 they were kind of able to do, this completely wild 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.440 swing for the fences. And as we've seen now you know, 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.600 we're in a situation where we're almost you know, decades later. 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.640 It had such an impact that we are having this 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:45.280 adaptation question mark influence question Mark. It's gonna be interesting 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:46.040 to see where it led. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:10:01.640 Yeah, do you think the reveal that Shield was Hydra 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.680 steals a little bit of this thunderas of the the 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.200 original idea of the thunderbolts, Like if they couldn't obviously 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.760 I think do a one to one adaptation. I think 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.600 because you know, we've already done one of the most 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:22.960 crazy twists in the MCU, which is that shockingly Shield 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.760 for a number of decades was secretly a neo Hydra, 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.880 neo Nazi organization run by Hydra at the highest levels. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.160 I think you make a great point. I definitely think 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.199 that's an issue they ran into, and I think that's 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.640 why we're getting this kind of reimagined later stage Thunderbolts. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.600 And there has been times in the last few years 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:46.880 where now the Thunderbolts are more of this kind of 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.440 like a suicide squad for Marvel, which I think is 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.760 what they are kind of pushing them towards in this. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.640 So yeah, but I think the Hydra Cap kind of 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.720 hydro Nazi stuff was so well done in the movies, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.679 and then we even got that great throwback in you know, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.120 endgame where Cap says like, Hail Hydra when he's in 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.679 the lift, so he doesn't have to have the fight like, 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.320 so we even get that, So yeah, I do think 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.280 that makes it harder. But I also think that we 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.440 are in an interesting situation with the MCU where we 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.959 are now in a time when the MCU isn't maybe 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.559 being looked at as kind of creatively bankrupt, just as 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.360 the way the comics were being looked at by then, 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.720 So could this be that return. I do think that 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:34.200 with the new trailers we've seen with Florence Pugh jumping 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.880 off the second tallest building in the world like nine 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.040 times getting her Tom cruise on and the kind of 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.520 a twenty four branding. I think they want us to 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.920 see this as a new era for the MCU, not 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.440 just in storytelling, but also in the way the movies 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.319 are made. So it could be interesting to see if 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.880 Thunderbolts acts and has that same impact as the comic 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:55.360 did all those years ago. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.120 Let me ask you this, this being you know, I 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.679 think one of the most impactful in a kind of 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:10.800 plot shape and marketing way impactful issue to Marvel's success 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.960 in the twenty first century. Do you have any like 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:20.000 what would be your favorite runs and or issues, let's 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:24.840 say your Mount Rushmore of nineties Marvel. Oh, and where 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.120 would Thunderbolts land on that Mount Rushmore? 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.120 I think that I think that for the actual like 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.679 story of it, and kind of I would say, like 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:43.880 the for me, the notion of the Thunderbolts is cooler 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.480 than necessarily maybe the execution though I do remember deeply 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:53.400 like feeling like it's so important and great. But I 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.080 do think that for me, I can't help it, like 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.920 as a nineties kid, like the number one has to 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.120 be that X Men number one. I just remember so 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.959 deeply it coming out with that trifl cover and the 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.760 connecting issues, and obviously I was like not reading it 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.160 when it first came out because I would have been 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:15.839 like three, But I was probably reading it two years 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:17.480 later when I was five or six, and I just 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.360 thought it was the coolest thing in the whole world. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.480 So that would definitely be up there for me, even 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.800 though ironically as an adult I now know it kind 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.040 of ended my favorite era of X Men, which is 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:32.360 Chris Clamont's X Men. Other ones I do think the 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:39.319 Infinity Gauntlets and stuff I Marvel work is yeah, unbelievable, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.840 and the fact that it's basically like George Pez and 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.080 then Ron Limbs, so it's like people that I just 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.440 love so much. Infinity. You got Infinity Gauntlet ninety ninety one, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.360 Infinity War ninety two, Infinity Crusade ninety three, which I 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.320 think is fantastically underrated and should definitely be checked out. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.120 Other ones that I really love, I would say that now, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.439 especially post Spider Verse and the impact, I would say 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.480 Spider Man twenty ninety nine is up there for me. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:09.280 It's I think it's such a different, cool vibe. And 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.320 when you did your omnibus on it. It really like inspired 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.439 me to go back and kind of look at it 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.520 and explore that just how different it was to anything 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.280 that we'd ever really seen before, and the tone and 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.760 it's so extreme and so nineties, which is one of 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.240 my favorite things about the kind of that era. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.800 I definitely did not think that twenty ninety nine, that 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.480 Spider Man twenty ninety nine would have the impact that 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:37.960 it has. 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:39.000 I thought it was cool. 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.840 I definitely don't think we'd still be talking about a 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.320 Spider Man twenty ninety nine thirty years later. 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:49.120 Yeah, right, that's kind of crazy. Also, really any for me, 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.480 I'm a big I'm a big lover of the X Men, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.160 so all your kind of like you know, New Warriors 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.960 and stuff like that. If we're talking, Yeah, like those 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.160 eras I think were really good. Also, I would say aesthetically, 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.280 and something that I've still loved since then to this 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.040 day is Tom McFarland's Spider Man. I think that is 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.240 some of the best Spider Man we've we've ever had. Also, 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.640 that is, you know, something that we've talked a lot about, 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.360 but you're talking about some of the really great you know, 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.320 comic you're talking about like the Marvel Nights stuff. Some 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.000 of that started in the early, like the late nineties, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.360 you know, when they were trying to work out what 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.320 would happen. So, like, you know Christopher Priest Black Panther, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.240 which is just such an iconic reimagining of. 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:34.760 The character that's up there. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.600 That's definitely I think that was like a game changer. 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.040 I would also say this is controversial. I'm sorry, guys, 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:44.280 I just but I do. I loved the Clone Sago 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.320 when I was a kid with Ben Riley. Like, I 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.360 know it's hated, I know the choice is hated, but 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.600 I think that had a huge impact on me. And 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.480 I remember that being another comic where when it was 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.120 kind of revealed this idea that Spider Man had never 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.560 been Spider Man. I was so shocked. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.320 I just true, it's crazy. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:05.080 It's a crazy reveal. Okay, so what are yours? 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.480 I would go? I would go Generation X just Y 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.520 X slash Mutant spin off with a bunch of new 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:20.960 fun very nineties characters included I Love You, Chamber, Jubilee, 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:21.920 et cetera. 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.320 I would go Christopher. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.280 Pries Black Panther because I think it was Yes, we 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.520 don't have the Marv the MCU version of T'Challa and 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:36.880 the Black Panther about that, and then I think, I 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.680 think the Infinity side, the George, I'll just call it 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.160 the George Peress Saga, Infinity Saga and Ultronunlimited. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.840 Those two, oh, those two are soga. Yeah. I would 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.280 also say you touched on something with gen X because 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.760 Chamber is one of my old time favorite characters, and also, 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.800 like Chris Pachallo, like what an artist like to me, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.040 the nineties kind of stuff, and that was during the 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.600 Phalanx Covenant storyline, which is so inherently nineties. But yeah, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.520 I think I think those are some good some good 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.080 reads if you guys want to want to check out 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:13.360 some other nineties stories that honestly still inspiring the MCU. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.080 I do find it very interesting that we're in an 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.040 era now where those nineties comics, which at the time 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.639 you know, did sell so much, like think about Venom. 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:29.640 Venom is another they hated and hated Redesclined, But now 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:36.959 they are shaping these billion dollar the Studios Hope franchises 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.120 in a way that I think nobody could have ever 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.960 really seen. And I think that is a really interesting 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.800 space to be in, especially when a lot of those 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.080 creators are still active. Jim Lee is still there still 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.720 at DC. You know. Rob Liefeld still there, just relaunched 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.520 Young Blood, you know, Mark Civestriet is still just keeping 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:01.199 it going over it to number one, volume one, like fifteen, Like, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.879 you know, it's definitely a really interesting time. And to 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.920 have a Thunderbolts comic Thunderbolts movie come out that is 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:16.399 essentially like weighing on the notion of like is it 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.960 gonna be the movie that saves the MCU? Like, yeah, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.120 Wolverine Deadpool. It made a billion dollars, but it did 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.359 not set the MCU back on any track. You know, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.120 it was almost the Elseworld's type story. So it's interesting 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.600 to be in this situation again and see see how 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:32.600 it shakes out. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.280 Well, what should we read next? What should we be 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.879 watching next? Let us know the discord. That's it for 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:41.119 this episode. Thanks for listening. 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.920 I have a good day well. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.280 X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Gitsubsion and Rosie 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:58.560 Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.800 producers are Jewell Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.919 is a Boo zafar Our. Producers are Carmen Laurent and 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.480 Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.240 Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.679 and Heidi our discord moderator.