1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:00,520 Speaker 1: Warning. 2 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:06,399 Speaker 2: Today's episode canday spoilers for the debut of the Thunderbolts 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 2: team in Marvel Comics in nineteen ninety seven. And if 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 2: you didn't read that, don't worry because we're just going 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: to tell you everything that happened. Hello, my name is 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: Jason Muceepsion and I'm Mersey Night and welcome to next 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: our vision of the podcast where we dive deep into 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: your favorite Joe's movie comics of pop culture. 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: Coming to you from iHeart Podcast. 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: We'll bring you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: Thursday plus news plus news. 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: In today's episode, it's a book club episode. But you 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: know what, guys, we're looking through Ip mcgeddon and there's 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: so much going on. We're covering the Lost of Us, 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: we're covering and or we're covering the Thunderbolts. So you 16 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: know what, if you didn't get a chance, don't want 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: to read this issue, don't worry because guess what we're 18 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: going to tell you exactly what happens in it. So 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: this is Thunderbot's number one from ninety ninety seven. 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: All right, Thunderbolts number one, tell us about it, Rosie. 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: Okay, So in the wake of the Onslaught event where 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: we saw the terrifying villain Onslaugh essentially kill. They are 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: the Dangers and the Fantastic Four. They are dead. Guys 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 1: can come on for ninety ninety seven. They are dead. 25 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: And I have to say, I think there's a pretty 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: important point in this comic because we don't really know 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: what the status quo is going to be going into Thunderbolts, 28 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: So all we know is that people keep saying the 29 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: Avengers are not going to come and save us, so 30 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: who knows. So the Marvel universe is without the heroes 31 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: it has long depended on. New York is in ruins 32 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: after Onslaughts attack, and the world is facing a future 33 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: without superheroes. That is until a mysterious team of heroes 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: shows up on the scene known as the Thunderbolts Citizen 35 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: V Techno, mac One, Songbird, Atlas, and Meteorite, and Mark 36 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: Bagley gives these motherfuckers the most nineties looking costumes of 37 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: all time, and. 38 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: So looly really nineties. 39 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: You're reading this as a kid, and you're like, oh, 40 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: this is gonna be just another group of nineties superheroes. 41 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: Who cares they don't make any impact on me? But 42 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: the book wants you to know they're important, so they're 43 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: going to start off by taking down the rat Pack, 44 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: who are wearing some interestingly Barren Zemo coded outfits, and 45 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: the Wrecking Crew, showing that they are incredibly strong. Because 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: the Wrecking Crew are very strong, they have magical artifacts, 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: and the new team, the Thunderbolts, took them down very easily. 48 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: But just as New York and the world are getting 49 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: ready to accept their new savers, the issue has a 50 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: legendary rug pool when it is revealed on the final 51 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: page that Citizen v Is Baron Helmet z Emo and 52 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: the Thunderbolts are actually the Masters of Evil. WHOA. Now, 53 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to explain how this was back 54 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: in the day, because it was marketed as if this 55 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: was the new team you needed to know. This was 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: the new hero team you were going to care about. 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: There were no leaks, there were no forums. They're probably 58 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: very early versions of forums, but not the kind that 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: would be leaking like this. There were no constant clickbait coverage, 60 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: so we were really shocked when this happened, and it's 61 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: a huge establishing point for the name of the Thunderbolts team, 62 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: which when we go into the movie. We're going to 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: be very interested to see if they keep because the 64 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: thing that is key to the Thunderbolts is the idea 65 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: that you think they are heroes, but they are not. 66 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: Whereas from what we've seen of the trailers, this is 67 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: the inversion of that, you think they are villains or 68 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: morally gray heroes who are now going to become heroes 69 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: in a true sense. So that would be a direct 70 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: kind of flip of what we expect from the Thunderbolts. 71 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: Let's talk about that. I wonder how much of that, 72 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: how much of a mistaken identity mm hmmm, dynamic will 73 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: be involved in the movie based on this. As you mentioned, 74 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: it's pretty it's central to Thunderbolts. 75 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: It's central. So why had such an impact is to. 76 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: The issue and and to the ongoing run, which takes 77 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: some really fun directions, like you know, Zemo, son of 78 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 2: a Nazi thirteenth Year zero is you know, pretty keen 79 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: on kind of subverting heroism and doing evil while pretending 80 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,239 Speaker 2: to be a bad guy. But the conflict that becomes 81 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: the most interesting conflict that drives the Thunderbolts is that 82 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: a lot of his team is like, wait a second, 83 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: I kind of like being good guy, like it. 84 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: Seems kind of good like people like people. It's kind 85 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: of easier than being villains. We don't have to do 86 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: as much scheming. 87 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: And so I wonder if in the movie there's something 88 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 2: there's either that or you know, or or if the 89 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 2: team they flip it and the team gets set up 90 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: almost as bad guys. 91 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: I do want if we are rooting for them, but 92 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: we end up in a situation where we know they 93 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: were trying to do the right thing, but they end 94 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: as antagonists. I think that would be really clever and 95 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: it would make sense. Put on your spoiler earmuffs if 96 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: you're going into this not seeing any trailers and you 97 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: don't want to know anything that's happening, because I do 98 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: think this is something they should have kept out the trailers. 99 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: We're gonna spoil. Now we know thanks to the trailers 100 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: that you know Bob and Sentry are the same person. 101 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: So I wonder if the thing here is Bob is 102 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: on their team, working alongside them, and at the end 103 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: it's revealed like, well, you guys have been working with Century, 104 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: who is the bad guy you were supposed to be 105 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: taking down all along, so you must truly be the 106 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: villains of the piece, and we end up in a 107 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: situation where they are perceived that way and go into 108 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: future stories as antagonists. That would be very brave of them. 109 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: I think to do that with Bucky. 110 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: I agree, especially I I'm going to pitch a haircut 111 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: on your idea. I wonder if the Countess's idea is 112 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 2: we can't control Century. He becomes the Void, he kills people. 113 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 2: What if we frame the Thunderbolts for all these deaths. 114 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: They're bad guys anyway, and I think maybe that's where 115 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 2: we might end up at the end, where they defeat 116 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: the centry work that makes a defeat defeat they you know, 117 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: defeat the Void and stabilize Bob slash the Century, but 118 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 2: all the destruction that happens in New York and the 119 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: casualties then become the official story, then becomes the Thunderbolts. 120 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: Did this? Yes, that actually makes a lot of sense. 121 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: Could see them on the run, could see that bond 122 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: as a team tested. We also know that the Asterix, 123 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: which has been a big part of the marketing and 124 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: at first seemed like maybe was less of a marketing 125 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: thing and was more of an actual Disney wasn't sure 126 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: if they were going to call it that, but it 127 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: has become a key part of the marketing. I definitely 128 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: think we could end up in a world where these 129 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: by the end, they're like being called the Dark Avengers, 130 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: or they're being called, you know, something different than the Thunderbolts, 131 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: but the Thunderbolt's name would make a lot of sense 132 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: if it goes that route. Jason, that's a that's a 133 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: very good take. I think that could definitely happen. And 134 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: this is very interesting as well in a historical sense, 135 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: which go back and listen to our who are the 136 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: Thunderbolts episode if you want to hear Jason really dig 137 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: deep into this in a really fantastic omnibus. But one 138 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: of our discord users, Giant Asian Man, who I've met 139 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: fantastic comic book lover, he asked a question that was 140 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: basically like the book came out of the shadow of 141 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: Marvel's bankruptcy filing. Obviously the issue was planned and in 142 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: the works, but did that have any effect on its reception? 143 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: So I'm going to do a little brief answer to 144 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: that that yeah, touches on it, And the answer is, 145 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: like the bubble had already like the early nineties when 146 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: Image was founded nineteen ninety three, ninety ninety four, we're 147 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: talking about eight million sales for X Men issue one, 148 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, the Chris Climont, Jim Lee issue Image Comics, 149 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: the death of Superman. These are huge stories, but around 150 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: the mid nineties it just absolutely tanked corporate greedfully supplanted 151 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: kind of creative ambition. The comic book retail sector, which 152 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: had been inflated by years of gimmick covers and variants 153 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: and foil covers and all those things we loved as 154 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: kids and fake promises of their collectability kind of popped 155 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six and this massive store closers ensued, 156 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: and a foolish gamble from Marvel, which again we have 157 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: a lot of fun talking about on that whose Standerbot's 158 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: issue saw The publisher turned to Rob Eifeld and Jim Lee, 159 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: who had left found Image Comics, and they were given 160 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: the Avengers and the Fantastic Four with the freedom to 161 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: start a new storyline outside of ongoing Marvel continuity, and 162 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: the Onslaught crossover that we mentioned provided basically an in 163 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: story excuse that resulted in Heroes reborn, a misguided initiative 164 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: that only further deflated confidence in the publisher. During that time, 165 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: cap Irom Manthor and the Fantastic Four were off the table, 166 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: So in the throes of impending bankruptcy and ownership they 167 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: Marvel began to experiment and the most shocking and long 168 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: lasting of that was this Busiac and Bagley Thunderbolts, which 169 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: they were kind of able to do, this completely wild 170 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: swing for the fences. And as we've seen now you know, 171 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: we're in a situation where we're almost you know, decades later. 172 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: It had such an impact that we are having this 173 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: adaptation question mark influence question Mark. It's gonna be interesting 174 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: to see where it led. 175 00:09:47,320 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think the reveal that Shield was Hydra 176 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 2: steals a little bit of this thunderas of the the 177 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: original idea of the thunderbolts, Like if they couldn't obviously 178 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: I think do a one to one adaptation. I think 179 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: because you know, we've already done one of the most 180 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: crazy twists in the MCU, which is that shockingly Shield 181 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: for a number of decades was secretly a neo Hydra, 182 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: neo Nazi organization run by Hydra at the highest levels. 183 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: I think you make a great point. I definitely think 184 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: that's an issue they ran into, and I think that's 185 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: why we're getting this kind of reimagined later stage Thunderbolts. 186 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: And there has been times in the last few years 187 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: where now the Thunderbolts are more of this kind of 188 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: like a suicide squad for Marvel, which I think is 189 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: what they are kind of pushing them towards in this. 190 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, but I think the Hydra Cap kind of 191 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: hydro Nazi stuff was so well done in the movies, 192 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: and then we even got that great throwback in you know, 193 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: endgame where Cap says like, Hail Hydra when he's in 194 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: the lift, so he doesn't have to have the fight like, 195 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: so we even get that, So yeah, I do think 196 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: that makes it harder. But I also think that we 197 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: are in an interesting situation with the MCU where we 198 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: are now in a time when the MCU isn't maybe 199 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: being looked at as kind of creatively bankrupt, just as 200 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: the way the comics were being looked at by then, 201 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: So could this be that return. I do think that 202 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: with the new trailers we've seen with Florence Pugh jumping 203 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: off the second tallest building in the world like nine 204 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: times getting her Tom cruise on and the kind of 205 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: a twenty four branding. I think they want us to 206 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: see this as a new era for the MCU, not 207 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: just in storytelling, but also in the way the movies 208 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: are made. So it could be interesting to see if 209 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: Thunderbolts acts and has that same impact as the comic 210 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: did all those years ago. 211 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, this being you know, I 212 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 2: think one of the most impactful in a kind of 213 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: plot shape and marketing way impactful issue to Marvel's success 214 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 2: in the twenty first century. Do you have any like 215 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: what would be your favorite runs and or issues, let's 216 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: say your Mount Rushmore of nineties Marvel. Oh, and where 217 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: would Thunderbolts land on that Mount Rushmore? 218 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: I think that I think that for the actual like 219 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: story of it, and kind of I would say, like 220 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: the for me, the notion of the Thunderbolts is cooler 221 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: than necessarily maybe the execution though I do remember deeply 222 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: like feeling like it's so important and great. But I 223 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: do think that for me, I can't help it, like 224 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: as a nineties kid, like the number one has to 225 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: be that X Men number one. I just remember so 226 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: deeply it coming out with that trifl cover and the 227 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: connecting issues, and obviously I was like not reading it 228 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: when it first came out because I would have been 229 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: like three, But I was probably reading it two years 230 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: later when I was five or six, and I just 231 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: thought it was the coolest thing in the whole world. 232 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: So that would definitely be up there for me, even 233 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: though ironically as an adult I now know it kind 234 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: of ended my favorite era of X Men, which is 235 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: Chris Clamont's X Men. Other ones I do think the 236 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: Infinity Gauntlets and stuff I Marvel work is yeah, unbelievable, 237 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: and the fact that it's basically like George Pez and 238 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: then Ron Limbs, so it's like people that I just 239 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: love so much. Infinity. You got Infinity Gauntlet ninety ninety one, 240 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: Infinity War ninety two, Infinity Crusade ninety three, which I 241 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: think is fantastically underrated and should definitely be checked out. 242 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: Other ones that I really love, I would say that now, 243 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: especially post Spider Verse and the impact, I would say 244 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: Spider Man twenty ninety nine is up there for me. 245 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: It's I think it's such a different, cool vibe. And 246 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: when you did your omnibus on it. It really like inspired 247 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: me to go back and kind of look at it 248 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: and explore that just how different it was to anything 249 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: that we'd ever really seen before, and the tone and 250 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: it's so extreme and so nineties, which is one of 251 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: my favorite things about the kind of that era. 252 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: I definitely did not think that twenty ninety nine, that 253 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: Spider Man twenty ninety nine would have the impact that 254 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: it has. 255 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: I thought it was cool. 256 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: I definitely don't think we'd still be talking about a 257 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: Spider Man twenty ninety nine thirty years later. 258 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, that's kind of crazy. Also, really any for me, 259 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: I'm a big I'm a big lover of the X Men, 260 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: so all your kind of like you know, New Warriors 261 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. If we're talking, Yeah, like those 262 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: eras I think were really good. Also, I would say aesthetically, 263 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: and something that I've still loved since then to this 264 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: day is Tom McFarland's Spider Man. I think that is 265 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: some of the best Spider Man we've we've ever had. Also, 266 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: that is, you know, something that we've talked a lot about, 267 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: but you're talking about some of the really great you know, 268 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: comic you're talking about like the Marvel Nights stuff. Some 269 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: of that started in the early, like the late nineties, 270 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: you know, when they were trying to work out what 271 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: would happen. So, like, you know Christopher Priest Black Panther, 272 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: which is just such an iconic reimagining of. 273 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: The character that's up there. 274 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: That's definitely I think that was like a game changer. 275 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: I would also say this is controversial. I'm sorry, guys, 276 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: I just but I do. I loved the Clone Sago 277 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: when I was a kid with Ben Riley. Like, I 278 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: know it's hated, I know the choice is hated, but 279 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: I think that had a huge impact on me. And 280 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: I remember that being another comic where when it was 281 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: kind of revealed this idea that Spider Man had never 282 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: been Spider Man. I was so shocked. 283 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: I just true, it's crazy. 284 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: It's a crazy reveal. Okay, so what are yours? 285 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: I would go? I would go Generation X just Y 286 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 2: X slash Mutant spin off with a bunch of new 287 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: fun very nineties characters included I Love You, Chamber, Jubilee, 288 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: et cetera. 289 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: I would go Christopher. 290 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: Pries Black Panther because I think it was Yes, we 291 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: don't have the Marv the MCU version of T'Challa and 292 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: the Black Panther about that, and then I think, I 293 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: think the Infinity side, the George, I'll just call it 294 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: the George Peress Saga, Infinity Saga and Ultronunlimited. 295 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: Those two, oh, those two are soga. Yeah. I would 296 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: also say you touched on something with gen X because 297 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: Chamber is one of my old time favorite characters, and also, 298 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: like Chris Pachallo, like what an artist like to me, 299 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: the nineties kind of stuff, and that was during the 300 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: Phalanx Covenant storyline, which is so inherently nineties. But yeah, 301 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: I think I think those are some good some good 302 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: reads if you guys want to want to check out 303 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: some other nineties stories that honestly still inspiring the MCU. 304 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: I do find it very interesting that we're in an 305 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: era now where those nineties comics, which at the time 306 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: you know, did sell so much, like think about Venom. 307 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: Venom is another they hated and hated Redesclined, But now 308 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: they are shaping these billion dollar the Studios Hope franchises 309 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: in a way that I think nobody could have ever 310 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: really seen. And I think that is a really interesting 311 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: space to be in, especially when a lot of those 312 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: creators are still active. Jim Lee is still there still 313 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: at DC. You know. Rob Liefeld still there, just relaunched 314 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: Young Blood, you know, Mark Civestriet is still just keeping 315 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: it going over it to number one, volume one, like fifteen, Like, 316 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's definitely a really interesting time. And to 317 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: have a Thunderbolts comic Thunderbolts movie come out that is 318 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: essentially like weighing on the notion of like is it 319 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: gonna be the movie that saves the MCU? Like, yeah, 320 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: Wolverine Deadpool. It made a billion dollars, but it did 321 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: not set the MCU back on any track. You know, 322 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: it was almost the Elseworld's type story. So it's interesting 323 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: to be in this situation again and see see how 324 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: it shakes out. 325 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 2: Well, what should we read next? What should we be 326 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: watching next? Let us know the discord. That's it for 327 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 2: this episode. Thanks for listening. 328 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: I have a good day well. 329 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Gitsubsion and Rosie 330 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive 331 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: producers are Jewell Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer 332 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 2: is a Boo zafar Our. Producers are Carmen Laurent and 333 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 2: Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez. 334 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman 335 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: and Heidi our discord moderator.